When the 6.5 CM came out it didn't take me long to figure out an old cartridge it looked like. It looks a lot like the 250 Savage IMP necked up for the 6.5 bullet with a bit more neck length. So you looking at the 22 CM and seeing the 22-250 AI didn't surprise me any. A lot of "new" cartridges are just making a few slight changes to an old cartridge and giving it a new name.
The biggest change that they make is the Sami twist rate. You will never be able to get factory loaded 22-250 80 grain bullets because Sami is a 1in12 twist not a 1in8
Yes looked like a 22-250 to me and I don't bother with one of them I use a 243 (I have 2 one is 1 in 10 and the other is 1 in 8) as either does almost as much in some respects and more in others. As for the barrel twist how long are we expecting barrels to last once a 22CF gets much more capacity than the 223 (I have a 223AI just because but it is not a barrel burner) so burn out the 22-250 and then get a 1 in 8 223 barrel and go 22-250AI. Get as Savage and the barrel changed (if you can get a fast twist barrel) for it and away you go. 22-250 brass is plentiful and fire forming AI's can be done in the field. Who doesn't reload when you move away from the stock chamberings?
I was in your camp and I wish we could rely on people knowing and selecting the right bullet for their barrel. But people are not like that so to run today's high bc bullets we have to make it a different cartridge to avoid the " i didn't know those wont work properly in my gun, the cartridge is the same! " scenario. Yes i wish people could be better - but they are not, so lowest common denominator wins again.
@@criminal__8615300 savage was made to the 250-3000 In turn that was necked down to 22 making the 22-250. Additionally the 300 savage became the 30 tc with some minor tweeking later to be necked down to 6.5 then 6 then 22 becoming the creedmore line so it all comes back to the 300 savage and the model 99 lever action.
I did the homework 2:43 with a 55 grain varmageddon smokes 22 creedmoor after 200 yards. After that the creedmoor does have some advantage.... Which is crazy because Ron always says don't shoot too far.....
All of these new cartridges with the fast-twist barrels and heavy-for-caliber bullets are fine and all, but there's one thing they don't ever mention. They spin lighter bullets so fast they will come apart on ya if they aren't built to rotate that fast. This makes these "new" (not really) rounds into highly specialized tools that aren't nearly as versatile as their conventional predecessors. The 220 Swift has been pushing bullets that fast for a hundred years. There are also many other necked-down 22's that deliver very impressive results with heavier bullets. The 224 TTH (Texas Trophy Hunter) is a necked down 6mm Remington. The 22 Hi-Power was introduced in 1912, designed by none other than Charles Newton, and it was pushing 70 grain bullets (.228" diameter) for harvesting bigger animals. The only people who think the 22 Creedmoor is really "new" just haven't read PO Ackley's books! :)
That's not true at all. I fire 220 Swift in a 1/8 twist and shoots anything from 50gr - 75 grains, If you use a thing jacket on something like a 32gr projectile then of course it will. But this "fault" people are trying to find with these faster twist barrels isn't hardly a fault
@@dontbetreadin4777 - Everything in exterior ballistics is a compromise. The trade-off for stabilizing longer, heavier bullets, is less velocity (all other things being equal) from traditional weight bullets in a given caliber. The trend with most of these cartridges is to also increase case capacity, to overcome that trade-off, but it does still exist. Modern metallurgy and manufacturing processes are allowing the science to move forward, with bullets and barrels handling the higher pressures and temperatures that come with larger centerfire 22 cartridges. Still, there is no free lunch. Personally, if I need more bullet weight than my 223 or 225 Winchester will handle, I just reach for a 243. All of this stuff has been tried before, by Ackley and Mashburn and others. The difference is the improved processes I mentioned earlier, but the improvements are by very small degrees over what was already possible.
How does the 204 do with coyotes? I’m asking because I see most companies only have varmint bullets and I’ve read they can make a mess and damage pelts.
@@emmanuelcalderon1982I have no personal experience but typically varmint bullets are designed to “explode” instead of penetrating deep as to not damage furs and pelts. As long as the velocity is high enough upon impact for the bullet to disintegrate. I would imagine for the tiny bullet of the 204 needs to still be moving pretty fast for it to do that
The WSSM line of cartridges was highly overlooked back in the day. I have 243 WSSM's and 6mm Creedmoor. The WSSM for my needs is much more compelling. It was released by winchester at a really bad time, but if you happen across any of the WSSM's, take a hard look. Is it perfect, no! It's pretty amazing getting such power out of such a short chambering.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the 22 CHeetah Ron. Developed by Jim Carmichel in the early 80s it defiantly would give the Creedmore a run for its money. A 308 case necked down to 224 caliber. With large or small primer pockets it was a fast cat.
@@thebigsurg Someone must have fed you the wrong information. Jim Carmichel and Fred Huntington created the 22 CHeetah around 1980 by necking not just 308 Win. brass down, but benchrest 308 Win brass. It had a small rifle primer pocket rather than the large rifle standard. I believe the shoulder angle was changed from the 20-degrees of the 308 to 28-degrees, but not positive. Quite similar to the various 22-243 wildcats.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors There were two versions of the 22 CHeetah. The original Mark I and later the Mark II. (Fun fact - the RCBS form die boxes were incorrectly marked as "Mach I" and "Mach II". Obviously wrong for such a speed demon cartridge.) The Mark I, which I have, had a 40-degree shoulder while the Mark II had the 28-degree. And yes, it was based on the out-of-production 308 Basic brass which had small primer pockets and was very uniform with thinner walls than most 308 brass. I bought up and still have about 1,400 of them. You can form cases from 243. I can get 4,000 ft/sec with Nosler 55 grain BTips.
That’s why this cartridge is not going to be as big a hit as they are trying to say it will! In my 60+ years of reloading hunting and collecting rifles I have seen them come and go but the 22-250 and the 243 are still hanging on! It will put a dent in their sales but won’t over take them for many years to come!
@@JWZelch Weird but Multiple Time World Champion Long distance shooters choose the 243 over everything, Berger makes some pretty nice projectiles for the 243. Hornady Shills can't seem to understand this. Lol Like comparing a 143 match grade to a 150 ball grade not a 155 Sierra Match King. The internet ignorance is always gold.
I just recently rebarrel my Winchester model 70 223 WSSM with 1-9 twist 24" barrel, its shooting the Hornady ELD-X 75g really well best group with work uploading 1/2 to 1 so far. It should improve even more with the trigger adjustment to 3-1/2 lbs. This barrel with heaver bullets hopefully will have a much better life. And if I had it to do over the 22 CM would be a good choice at this time.
I get very good results from my 22-250 with 80 gr. bullets in a 1 in 8 twist barrel. But I know there are no factory loaded 80 gr 22-250 loads and that is what makes the 22 creedemore the winner at this point in time.
Great video! The 22 CM is the new king for yotes. I ended up going with the Fierce carbon Rival 24" barrel. The horizon is a nice rifle. But I didn't get a 22 creedmoor to shoot it at 3000fps. Copper Creek and Mead make grat ammo for 22 creed, btw. Of course my 6 PRC crushes the 22 CM but it's a wildcat.
One of the few videos that I have to take issue with Ron and Joseph. This was an "apples to oranges" comparison: 22 CM with a fast twist barrel VS a 22-250 with a slow twist barrel. There are manufactures such as Tikka that offer a factory made 22-250 with a FAST TWIST barrel and it will shoot that same high BC bullet the 22 CM is shooting with outstanding results. I have nothing against the 22 CM. I hope it is a success. However, we need to make a fair comparison.
That’s why they had a 22-250 ai it literally a fast twist with a slightly larger powder capacity because the walls are straitened out they even said it would basically do the same thing but good luck finding 22-250 ai on the shelf of your local gun store
FACTORY AMMO, a handloader or wildcatter with a custom barrel can make any cartridge do basically anything they want (within the laws of physics) but handloader are the minority and wildcatters are the very small minority. As cool as it would be for most shooters to make and fine tune their own ammo the industry couldn't even support it if they wanted to. The small amount of handloaders now can rarely find all the components they need or want, now imagine if 100x more shooters were buying all the same components. That's why I haven't ever gotten into handloading, I can never find components but I can find factory ammo in a lot of newer, more modern chamberings that companies like Hornady, Nosler, and Winchester have released in recent years. I can rarely even find the old "stand by's" like 270 and 30-06 anymore, but any gun store I walk into reliably has most of (if not all) the various Creedmoor, PRC, and even Nosler loadings Winchester's 6.8 western has lagged behind but I still see it fairly regularly. Add to that the fact that modern ammunition is often excellent due to advances in manufacturing consistency and I can take my 6mm Creedmoor with factory ammo and ring steel at 1000yds all day with ease and nail coyotes out to 400 almost without trying. Can a handloader achieve better consistency and accuracy? Sure absolutely, but unless you're a competition shooter the juice is almost certainly not worth the squeeze, it's not even more economical to reload your own ammo anymore due to the price of components. I can buy a box of Hornady match 6mm Creedmoor for about $40 (not cheap, but hell, a jug of powder is more than that by itself) 100pcs of brass is close to that price, the bullets can be fairly economical but still not a huge value proposition, and PRIMERS, good God the primers. Not to mention the press, dies, powder scale, and all the equipment you need to actually turn the components into shootable ammo. I'd have to load close to 1000 rounds of 6creedmoor just to start "saving" money. It's just not really worth it unless I decide to start trying to win matches.
Thank you Ron. Kids know days know nothing but new cartridges and going to the store and buying ammo and factory rifles. If you want a good comparison look a 90 gr bullets out of both.
im waiting for the flatmores, the diameter of a 12 ga and a half inch long, talk about a great shoulder to rest against and hold alignment and powder cant dribbel into the bore as it burns
Just in case anyone wonders why the 22 Creedmoor has a 30° shoulder instead of the Ackley-Improved 40°: Hornady has stated that they stay with a 30° shoulder to reduce scrap (damaged cases) during production.
@@bobbellew9240 The 22 CM case dimensions are not that far off from the 22-250AI, but the COAL is considerably longer at 2.7" vs 2.35". The Creedmoor has less taper, and a longer neck as well as a faster twist ( 1:8" vs 1:14") It is actually possible to buy Ackley Improved cases and even ammo for several cartridges, but the most common is the SAAMI listed 280AI, which I have seen at my local Wal Mart. Hornady makes a 162 grain 280AI load, so they have experience with the 40° shoulder. Some other cartridges that they have made, like the 284 and WSM series have 35° shoulders. The Hornady guys, when asked why they use 30° shoulders instead of something steeper on their new cartridges cited high scrap rates with steeper angles. I figured that someone would eventually ask why Hornady didn't use a steeper shoulder like the 22-250AI.
@@bobbellew9240 My first response disappeared, so I'll try again. Ackley Improved brass and even ammo is available from several vendors. The 280AI is SAAMI listed and fairly common. Hornady makes a 162 grain load with the 40° shoulder. In a podcast, when someone asked why Hornady sticks with 30° shoulders instead of the 40° like the AI's or 35° like the 284 or WSMs, they stated that the sharper shoulders tend to create more scrap or require additional steps, raising cost. I figured someone would ask why the 22 CM does not have a 40° shoulder.
@@bobbellew9240 I checked the 22 Creedmoor against several drawings of 22-250 AI reamers. FWIW, the 22 CM has less taper and a slightly longer neck. Standard twist is 1:8" vs a 22-250's 1:14". Max cartridge length is 2.7" vs the 22-250's 2.35" to allow the longer bullets to stay our of the case.
This is true, making a 40 degree shoulder is best done by fire forming. The real answer should have been to make the factory new ammo with 30 degree shoulders but chamber all the rifles and cut all the dies with 40 degrees. That way the guns do the leg work of making the 40 degree shoulders for reloaders, and non reloaders will never care for the difference
Yeah.... figured that combination out oh, 20 years ago. Gunsmith thought I was nuts, said my 55 gr8 bullets would fly apart. I just told him to build it, paid for it, and let him have his opinion. After that, we had fun working up loads in it, and a fast twist Swift. In the end, the little bullets still aren't infused with any magic when the weight gets up in the 80 gr8 range. Haven't retired my 243 Win or 257 Roberts yet, too much fun!
Ron the 22 CM sounds like a wonderful cartridge for someone that's not a handloader. Having heavy bullets offered in factory ammo is a plus. I took a little different turn and had my Bergara 22-250 barreled with a 28 inch 7 twist. It came in a 9 twist and was .5 to .3 moa gun with Berger 73g target bullets. I mostly enjoy target shooting long range but do love ground hog and coyote hunting. The 7 twist has transformed this rifle to a very accurate rifle with 88 g target bullets. I'm getting ready to load some Hornady 80 edlx bullets for the hogs and coy's. But like the 22CM the 88g's have about half the wind drift of the Berger 73's and considerable less than a 55g. It was much cheaper to have the rifle barreled in the 7 twist than buying a rifle chambered 22CM not counting new dies and brass. I'm coming in just a little slower than a 22CM at 3100 fps but I can live with that. I'm just a little romantic about some of the older cartridges that most of the time just need a faster twist barrel. So much I just had a 6mm Remington built with a long action so I could load the modern high bc bullets long and not restricted by magazine length. I had it built with benchrest shooting in mind. The 6mm has a 7.5 twist 30" straight barrel and shooting dots at a hundred .2 and .3 at 300yds. I shot yesterday at steel at 500yds, I have 12" 10, 8, 6, 4, and 2 inch steel set up. All are pretty easy to hit all the way down to the 4 inch, the 2 inch is rough, I only hit it twice. I think my gunsmith thought I lost it when I said I wanted it chambered in 6mm rem when there are so many great 6mm chamberings out there. I just smiled and said I'm a Romantic with the older rounds that people have forgotten, or are forgetting. I would tell anyone that's a handloader get that old 12 twist 22-250 out and have it barreled with a 7 twist and watch it come alive with the new heaver bullets. Scott
Randy from The Real Gunsmith corrected Joseph big time on an article he wrote on a Sako S20 6.5 Creedmoor. Lol he got corrected like Ron does occasionally. Keep the good content coming.
More like finicky people instead of a finicky cartridge. They should have kept the same 10 mm 40 Smith & Wesson rim on the bottom of the 224 Valkyrie case, instead they cut it down thin because of dumbassery.
There are so many new cartridges and bullet offerings now that outperform "legacy cartridges" especially at long ranges. The problem is these new offerings outperform the classics when the target is paper. The jury is still out when the target is game. I reserve judgment.
I love coyotes. Used to spend time with those in the canyon by my home before sunrise. Had a few that would walk with me on the trail. They are fascinating and smart. Some can even be friendly when they get used to seeing you. Even had a neighbor with some living under her porch.
John Applegate swore by the 22-250 up to including deer. The 250-3000 in 115gr-117gr. Hit coyote and deer like a lightning bolt. PO Ackley spoke of the 3000fps as the sweet spot for many calibers
Ron that 22 Creedmore is so impressive...WOW...and big heavyweight 80 grain bullets OMG !!!...and you can buy FACTORY ammo !!!.....that is going to be a killer deer cartridge .All of your vidios are 100% top shelf !!!....I loved it when you told him....now don't flinch ,,,that was an absolute riot 😅😅😅,keep up the great work.
Leo, we've posted a couple of videos about my buddy Steve's old M70 in 300 H&H and will do another one or two soon because he's finally found a replacement barrel. I've also touched on the 300 H&H in a Parkwest Rifle I borrowed for a Mozambique safari two seasons back. Handloaded Hammer bullets in it to get 1/2 MOA and amazing MV. Proved deadly on waterbuck, impala, bushbuck, hartebeest, warthog, etc. Oh, and I did a SD whitetail hunt video in which I used that same 300 H&H Parkwest rifle, which is mechanically quite similar to the M70. Love that sleek old 300 H&H!
I would use 243 specific load for Varmint hunting where entire gunpowder load is less by using more of the proper filler and bullet at X grains is less, I want to say there is a specific Coyote and similar sized animal grain and load combo. I already have a Remmington 8600 Varmint Hunter early model due to being a left eye dominate shooter for long deer hunting, so using the ideal ammo for my gun it was made for shooting long distance already.
I hope you will explore the 22ARC as well. There are people who have used the 22 Creedmoor for many years and many of these people have found that 1000 rounds is about the maximum for a barrel. This is a very hot load and is evidently a barrel burner. Also, while many people do enjoy shooting varmints with bolt actions, myself included, but many people also enjoy shooting varmints with a very accurate AR, myself included again. While all of the popular varmint cartridges can be acquired in a bolt action rifle, only some of them can be acquired in the light and handy AR-15 platform. Obviously, one could get an AR-10 chambered in 22-250Rem, 22 Creedmoor, or even the .243Win, however these rifles are typically significantly heavier which can be a problem for younger and smaller statured shooters. While the 22 Creedmoor is most definitely a hotter cartridge with a little more range, I think the 22ARC will also give the extended range that the the 22 Creedmoor provides over the 22-250Rem and the .223Rem but the 22ARC can still be chambered in the lighter AR-15 platform. I would also expect that the life expectancy of a barrel chambered in 22ARC will also be significantly longer than that of the 22 Creedmoor. I definitely hope that you and Joseph will explore the 22ARC.
{-"The high cost of a box of the only factory load available combined with the difficulties in handloading sentence the 5.56x57 to life in the periphery. Most shooters won’t bother putting up with the drawbacks when other lightning-fast .224 cartridges exist. But in the right hands, probably of an aficionado of rare calibers, this little-known 5.56x57 can work wonders. In Europe, the used gun market regularly offers high-quality guns chambered in 5.6x57mm. For low costs, at that. For now, the cartridge might only be of interest for gun nuts. -"}
Ron apparently is well aware of the .22/243 Middlestead. In limited testing in a 25.5" bbl., I've already found 3 different powders that will push the standard 62 grain fmj's to over 4,000 fps using Winchester and Lapua cases. I've also tested considerably more extreme case capacities like a .300 Chey-tac with sleeved .22 caliber tungsten cored projectiles at velocities slightly in excess of 6,000 fps... and also, the quite difficult .22/284 which was not worth the effort, nor the very short barrel life that resulted. Which brings us back to the Middlestead which is easy to form from readily available .243 Win. brass... and seems to be the limit insofar as a reasonable very fast .22 caliber cartridge. It also gained some interest for experimental purposes... through the DOD.
I love to see “fine-tuning” and innovation of modern cartridges. Unless a short action is the deciding factor, 243 Winchester needs to be discussed when talking about a cartridge that has a varmint-deer/pronghorn crossover. I think an AI/PRC-style tuning of the 243 would be very worthwhile.
Would be nice if you could mention the rifles available made for this calibre Fast twist factory barrel In Australia there is very strict laws for suppressors You mentioned recoil in short What about decibel levels ? Comparison was really good but lacking a lot of info on the main subject
the numbers are great, but it comes at the cost of recoil and barrel life. I went to .243 with lite bullets for a while, but loosing site picture sucked. I think 22BR or 22BRA is the sweet spot.
surely all this shooting out to 600+ yards is at targets not game, trying to hit a rabbit or fox at that distance is going to be difficult, the pray only has to sneeze and you have missed in the time it takes for the projectile to get out there?
@@ColoradoAirgunner yes, the 6mm ARC was intended for gas guns, because of the COAL putting it in an AR-15 platform. The creedmoor rounds fit in an "AR-10" platform, which makes it a little more challenging and undesirable to put in a gas gun. But, they're also making 6mm arcs in bolt guns, which is exciting. I agree though, you are right about the gas and bolt guns
Ron, this has nothing to do with this particular video but it’s in my mind and I thought I’d mention it. You’ve done very interesting interviews with other RUclipsrs such as Hickok45 and WhoTeeWho. Is there any chance you could interview Paul Harrell? I’m a fan of both you and Paul. Even though your education and experience are very different, you’re both very knowledgeable and sensible when it comes to firearms. I feel that a conversation between you and Paul would be really interesting.
Hi Ron. Don't laugh at me. My varmint rifle is a model 70. In 225 Winchester. With a old 3to9 Redfield scope. It been knocking varmints for a lot of years. You can probably tell I'm getting old and definitely old fashioned. 😊
If you are shooting Deer at 500 yards it makes sense, but most hunters hunt Deer well under 300 yards. If you don’t have a rifle, then 22 CR makes sense, but if you already have a 22-250, I don’t think any reason to replace. Also don’t think ammo will be easily available for it.
Has anyone looked back in wildcat history, at the “224 TTH”, is the name, I believe for a rem.244/6mm necked to accept 90 grain bullets in a 7-9 twist barrel. I believe it was improved to 40 degrees. The article was about using it as a bean field deer rifle.
I can understand the happy Gilmor attitude for a new fast Wildcat cartridge..I remember the 221 fireball back in the day .in our state we can't hunt deer with .22 cal . .so I guess it's a only purpose rifle to be ground hog and coyote shooting..I have thought of a wild cat load for .338 prc.take a .338 mag cartridge ..shorten overall case 1 inch. Use 34 degree shoulder.. neck down to shoot 7mm prc long bullets 147 gr .168 gr and 175 gr .. just a idea. I think it would be a excellent cartridge for long range coyote ..deer ..and large elk
@@robertdinicola9225yes they have a 243 creedmore too, already. It is called the 6.0 millimeter creedmore. Or 6 creedmore. Because a 243 is a 6 millimeter is a 243 is a 6 millimeter. Same thing. K the measurement is the same. 243 winchester and 6 creedmore are two totally different guns. Anyways, super cool! I don’t own one I gotta regular 243 also and I like it greatly. But I just think the creedmore ideas are really cool. With the 1:7 twists and the long bullets
I've nothing against these new cartridges. But, just like this video, all the reviews compare the same basic cartridges with way different bullet weights. This and all other such reviews are totally misleading. Why not compare the two cartridges, with the same bullet weight? Totally waste of time watching this and everyone else's reviews who do this. -btw, I've a huge firearm collection and studied this stuff for 50yrs. Building a 6arc right now, and might do a 22Arc as well.
The main purpose of the the creedmoor’s is they’re designed from the ground up to shoot longer high bc bullets and rifles come from the factory with twist rates to accommodate. Sure you can get 22-250 ai to do the same thing as the creed with hand loads and a custom barrel. Same goes for 6 creed v 243 and 6.5 creed v 260 Remington. Though one could argue how necessary all of that is at normal hunting distances. Regardless new cartridges that push the envelope and get people interested in. Firearms is always a good thing.
Why not just get a faster twist barrel for you 22-250 and use the longer/heavier bullets? It looks like same powder capacity. It is the BC that is helping those numbers.
Yes, you could do that, but you'd be 100 to 150 fps slower. And there's the hassle and expense of making and mounting the custom barrel. If you're going to that much trouble, you might as well make it an Ackley Improved, and if you're going to do that you might as well just get a factory chambered 22 CM.
@@RonSpomerOutdoorsyou know Ron I almost agree except anywhere you go people are going to ask what you shooting and you are going to have take the walk of shame and say a creedmore. I can’t do it !!!
22 creedmore is one of the few new calibers i think is worthy of hanging around. 22 creed and 350 legend actually do things that nothing else already does for the hunting comunity (factory loaded saami spec) The prc's are kinda in that boat too, but really only for hunting out west. Anything under 350 yards the prc's are just costing more money to shoot. The 6.5 creed that everyone LOVES is awesome at punching paper at long range, but for hunting game at sane distances, id rather have a regular 270
My biggest problem with the 22 CM is its competitors. A few companies like browning and Bergara are putting a faster twist barrel on the 22-250s for longer heavier bullets. 6mm CM even going a bit slower still has a higher BC than most .224 offerings. I think the biggest problem for it will be the 22ARC because of its use in the standard AR platform that people are leaning towards. When placed in a bolt gun the 22ARC is within 150 to 200fps of the 22CM burning 10+ grains les powder. I'm not saying the 22CM is a bad cartridge, only that in today's era of "NEW" cartridges the majority of them seem to be old "FUD" rounds given a faster twist and a good spit shine. 22-250/22CM, 264 win mag/ 6.5PRC, 300WM/300PRC, 7mmRM/ 7PRC, 270WSM/ 6.8western. All the rounds listed can be given a fast twist barrel and match or exceed the new.
Hey Ron, what would u prefer, a 6GT vs 22 creed, best BC lead free bullet on both( Cali), which would be better at 500yd plus? I like speed, but want the better performer at 500yd up... For Hunting and performance
Been shooting the 22.250 Ackley for fifteen years. Barrel is 25&3/8 getting same numbers out of it. I’m disappointed now, thought I was going to be buying a new gun
Going that fast the barrel will have a short life. So is the rifle that you buy, will I be able to replace the barrel or is that something that a professional will have to do?
You have to first do an assessment of what your primary quarry is and distance you plan on engaging your targets. 22 cal is best utilized for target, varmints and predators to 500 yds period. Can it be pressed to kill medium sized game? Yes. Is it ideal? No. Can it engage targets to 1000 yds? Yes. Is it ideal? No. Every cartridge/ bullet caliber has its limitations, know them.
Wondering if you could use this on deer? I usually am not in an area that you can see 100 yds. I have to search for a range over 200 yds. So I’m thinking at ranges of 200yds and in; could this be a good whitetail round?
![Steve's 6mm Creedmoor Rifle for Backpack Hunting - The Experience Project [EXP005]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ufME1FkItl8/mqdefault.jpg)
When the 6.5 CM came out it didn't take me long to figure out an old cartridge it looked like. It looks a lot like the 250 Savage IMP necked up for the 6.5 bullet with a bit more neck length.
So you looking at the 22 CM and seeing the 22-250 AI didn't surprise me any. A lot of "new" cartridges are just making a few slight changes to an old cartridge and giving it a new name.
The biggest change that they make is the Sami twist rate.
You will never be able to get factory loaded 22-250 80 grain bullets because Sami is a 1in12 twist not a 1in8
Yes looked like a 22-250 to me and I don't bother with one of them I use a 243 (I have 2 one is 1 in 10 and the other is 1 in 8) as either does almost as much in some respects and more in others. As for the barrel twist how long are we expecting barrels to last once a 22CF gets much more capacity than the 223 (I have a 223AI just because but it is not a barrel burner) so burn out the 22-250 and then get a 1 in 8 223 barrel and go 22-250AI. Get as Savage and the barrel changed (if you can get a fast twist barrel) for it and away you go. 22-250 brass is plentiful and fire forming AI's can be done in the field. Who doesn't reload when you move away from the stock chamberings?
I was in your camp and I wish we could rely on people knowing and selecting the right bullet for their barrel. But people are not like that so to run today's high bc bullets we have to make it a different cartridge to avoid the " i didn't know those wont work properly in my gun, the cartridge is the same! " scenario. Yes i wish people could be better - but they are not, so lowest common denominator wins again.
the parent case for a 6.5 cm which the 22 cm is simply a necked down version of is the .30 TC, not the 250 sav necked up
@@criminal__8615300 savage was made to the 250-3000 In turn that was necked down to 22 making the 22-250. Additionally the 300 savage became the 30 tc with some minor tweeking later to be necked down to 6.5 then 6 then 22 becoming the creedmore line so it all comes back to the 300 savage and the model 99 lever action.
The best duo in outdoor sports! This is golden content!
I have a 22 creed barrel waiting to go on a Ruger m77. I think of all the Creedmoor’s this one offers the best improvement over legacy offerings
Ron your excitement and commentary in the shooting segment of this clip was just hysterical. Best laugh I needed today.
Federal .243 Power Shock 80 gr. 3330.
Happy days!
3330? What is that? Who makes it?
@@biblejohn4681 3300 fps
@@biblejohn4681 He didn't do well in math class. 3330 FPS. Use your units.
I still stick with my 220 swift 😊😊 55 grain boat tail projectiles work well for me.
I guess people will finally quit saying 243 is too small for deer
Unfortunately people will never stop say stupid things.
I’m old fashioned. I’ll stick to the old 243 Win. Tried and true.
Exactly. Have Savage 11 .243 with 95 grain SMK Tipped running 3099 fps and bc of .490 is. Groups high .1s-.2s constantly.
And you can find ammunition for it anywhere that sales ammo. Hard to beat the classics!
I did the homework 2:43 with a 55 grain varmageddon smokes 22 creedmoor after 200 yards. After that the creedmoor does have some advantage.... Which is crazy because Ron always says don't shoot too far.....
Yeah I like the 240 and 260 both really well
Legend.
Am I the only one who likes this style of video more, where there's a dialog between two people?
Ron Spomer has promoted 22 creed more than Hornady
Hornagay.
How do you think he makes a living? Selling Girl Scout cookies😳😂
Backfire has also been pushing the 22 Creedmoor
Backfire has really been pushing it
We expect a big shipment of Thin Mints next week. @@edwardabrams4972
All of these new cartridges with the fast-twist barrels and heavy-for-caliber bullets are fine and all, but there's one thing they don't ever mention. They spin lighter bullets so fast they will come apart on ya if they aren't built to rotate that fast. This makes these "new" (not really) rounds into highly specialized tools that aren't nearly as versatile as their conventional predecessors. The 220 Swift has been pushing bullets that fast for a hundred years. There are also many other necked-down 22's that deliver very impressive results with heavier bullets. The 224 TTH (Texas Trophy Hunter) is a necked down 6mm Remington. The 22 Hi-Power was introduced in 1912, designed by none other than Charles Newton, and it was pushing 70 grain bullets (.228" diameter) for harvesting bigger animals. The only people who think the 22 Creedmoor is really "new" just haven't read PO Ackley's books! :)
That's not true at all. I fire 220 Swift in a 1/8 twist and shoots anything from 50gr - 75 grains, If you use a thing jacket on something like a 32gr projectile then of course it will. But this "fault" people are trying to find with these faster twist barrels isn't hardly a fault
@@dontbetreadin4777 - Everything in exterior ballistics is a compromise. The trade-off for stabilizing longer, heavier bullets, is less velocity (all other things being equal) from traditional weight bullets in a given caliber. The trend with most of these cartridges is to also increase case capacity, to overcome that trade-off, but it does still exist. Modern metallurgy and manufacturing processes are allowing the science to move forward, with bullets and barrels handling the higher pressures and temperatures that come with larger centerfire 22 cartridges. Still, there is no free lunch. Personally, if I need more bullet weight than my 223 or 225 Winchester will handle, I just reach for a 243. All of this stuff has been tried before, by Ackley and Mashburn and others. The difference is the improved processes I mentioned earlier, but the improvements are by very small degrees over what was already possible.
@jasonbroom7147 "There is nothing new under the sun".
Don’t shoot light bullets then…..
I'm pretty damn happy with my 204 ruger
Facts
How does the 204 do with coyotes? I’m asking because I see most companies only have varmint bullets and I’ve read they can make a mess and damage pelts.
@@emmanuelcalderon1982I have no personal experience but typically varmint bullets are designed to “explode” instead of penetrating deep as to not damage furs and pelts. As long as the velocity is high enough upon impact for the bullet to disintegrate. I would imagine for the tiny bullet of the 204 needs to still be moving pretty fast for it to do that
300 yards I find them to light
Yep!
I love seeing you two together!
The WSSM line of cartridges was highly overlooked back in the day. I have 243 WSSM's and 6mm Creedmoor. The WSSM for my needs is much more compelling. It was released by winchester at a really bad time, but if you happen across any of the WSSM's, take a hard look. Is it perfect, no! It's pretty amazing getting such power out of such a short chambering.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the 22 CHeetah Ron. Developed by Jim Carmichel in the early 80s it defiantly would give the Creedmore a run for its money. A 308 case necked down to 224 caliber. With large or small primer pockets it was a fast cat.
Yes, indeed, James. I've long wondered why no one legitimized this one. Ditto the 22-243 Middlestead. Many wildcats based on the 308 case.
the Cheetah is actually the 30-06 necked down to .224
@@thebigsurg Someone must have fed you the wrong information. Jim Carmichel and Fred Huntington created the 22 CHeetah around 1980 by necking not just 308 Win. brass down, but benchrest 308 Win brass. It had a small rifle primer pocket rather than the large rifle standard. I believe the shoulder angle was changed from the 20-degrees of the 308 to 28-degrees, but not positive. Quite similar to the various 22-243 wildcats.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors There were two versions of the 22 CHeetah. The original Mark I and later the Mark II. (Fun fact - the RCBS form die boxes were incorrectly marked as "Mach I" and "Mach II". Obviously wrong for such a speed demon cartridge.) The Mark I, which I have, had a 40-degree shoulder while the Mark II had the 28-degree. And yes, it was based on the out-of-production 308 Basic brass which had small primer pockets and was very uniform with thinner walls than most 308 brass. I bought up and still have about 1,400 of them. You can form cases from 243. I can get 4,000 ft/sec with Nosler 55 grain BTips.
@ RonSpomer thanks for the correction
80 grain bullet at over 3000 fps? That would be my .243 Win. and i can get the ammo mord easily. Regardless, ggreat job guys.
That’s why this cartridge is not going to be as big a hit as they are trying to say it will! In my 60+ years of reloading hunting and collecting rifles I have seen them come and go but the 22-250 and the 243 are still hanging on! It will put a dent in their sales but won’t over take them for many years to come!
Yes, but there’s a big difference in the BCs. We all know what that means for performance at longer ranges.
@@JWZelchagreed. 150gr in a .308” is brick compared to a 150gr in 6.5mm.
@@JWZelch Weird but Multiple Time World Champion Long distance shooters choose the 243 over everything, Berger makes some pretty nice projectiles for the 243. Hornady Shills can't seem to understand this. Lol Like comparing a 143 match grade to a 150 ball grade not a 155 Sierra Match King. The internet ignorance is always gold.
Exactly
I just recently rebarrel my Winchester model 70 223 WSSM with 1-9 twist 24" barrel, its shooting the Hornady ELD-X 75g really well best group with work uploading 1/2 to 1 so far. It should improve even more with the trigger adjustment to 3-1/2 lbs. This barrel with heaver bullets hopefully will have a much better life. And if I had it to do over the 22 CM would be a good choice at this time.
I get very good results from my 22-250 with 80 gr. bullets in a 1 in 8 twist barrel. But I know there are no factory loaded 80 gr 22-250 loads and that is what makes the 22 creedemore the winner at this point in time.
In my region Nunavut, Pangnirtung. Other use 222 Remington and 223 Remington for caribou. Baffin Island.
Why?
Great video! The 22 CM is the new king for yotes. I ended up going with the Fierce carbon Rival 24" barrel. The horizon is a nice rifle. But I didn't get a 22 creedmoor to shoot it at 3000fps. Copper Creek and Mead make grat ammo for 22 creed, btw. Of course my 6 PRC crushes the 22 CM but it's a wildcat.
Tell me about the 6 PRC which I assume is the 6mm Creedmoor. I have a couple of 6mm Creedmoor rifles and they are excellent.
Ron y su hijo.... Excelente video, excelente explicación y excelente desempeño del .22 Creedmor!!!
Felicitaciones!!!!!!
Wow! Very impressive! How is it on barrels?
Great information , you two are the best duo of the Gun world
Cool one guys! Looks like yall had fun! Great episode! Thanks guys!
One of the few videos that I have to take issue with Ron and Joseph. This was an "apples to oranges" comparison: 22 CM with a fast twist barrel VS a 22-250 with a slow twist barrel. There are manufactures such as Tikka that offer a factory made 22-250 with a FAST TWIST barrel and it will shoot that same high BC bullet the 22 CM is shooting with outstanding results. I have nothing against the 22 CM. I hope it is a success. However, we need to make a fair comparison.
That’s why they had a 22-250 ai it literally a fast twist with a slightly larger powder capacity because the walls are straitened out they even said it would basically do the same thing but good luck finding 22-250 ai on the shelf of your local gun store
Amen
Whatcha need is what their selling
Good luck finding factory bullets that are heavy enough to even need a fast twist barrel in the 22-250
FACTORY AMMO, a handloader or wildcatter with a custom barrel can make any cartridge do basically anything they want (within the laws of physics) but handloader are the minority and wildcatters are the very small minority.
As cool as it would be for most shooters to make and fine tune their own ammo the industry couldn't even support it if they wanted to. The small amount of handloaders now can rarely find all the components they need or want, now imagine if 100x more shooters were buying all the same components.
That's why I haven't ever gotten into handloading, I can never find components but I can find factory ammo in a lot of newer, more modern chamberings that companies like Hornady, Nosler, and Winchester have released in recent years. I can rarely even find the old "stand by's" like 270 and 30-06 anymore, but any gun store I walk into reliably has most of (if not all) the various Creedmoor, PRC, and even Nosler loadings Winchester's 6.8 western has lagged behind but I still see it fairly regularly. Add to that the fact that modern ammunition is often excellent due to advances in manufacturing consistency and I can take my 6mm Creedmoor with factory ammo and ring steel at 1000yds all day with ease and nail coyotes out to 400 almost without trying.
Can a handloader achieve better consistency and accuracy? Sure absolutely, but unless you're a competition shooter the juice is almost certainly not worth the squeeze, it's not even more economical to reload your own ammo anymore due to the price of components. I can buy a box of Hornady match 6mm Creedmoor for about $40 (not cheap, but hell, a jug of powder is more than that by itself) 100pcs of brass is close to that price, the bullets can be fairly economical but still not a huge value proposition, and PRIMERS, good God the primers. Not to mention the press, dies, powder scale, and all the equipment you need to actually turn the components into shootable ammo.
I'd have to load close to 1000 rounds of 6creedmoor just to start "saving" money. It's just not really worth it unless I decide to start trying to win matches.
If you can’t call a coyote closer than 500 yards, you have bigger problems
When your in a competition and gotta shoot 100 in a week you don't wanna lose out on a big pay day when they hang up at distance
You don’t know the full story so you’re full of assumptions!
If he couldn't hit a coyote well past 500 yards with a 243 idk how he even became a competition hunter in the first place
Perhaps you only see the ones biting your call. That would explain your ignorance.
@@carami6442wasn’t about hitting it.. it was about it running off.
Thank you Ron. Kids know days know nothing but new cartridges and going to the store and buying ammo and factory rifles. If you want a good comparison look a 90 gr bullets out of both.
im waiting for the flatmores, the diameter of a 12 ga and a half inch long, talk about a great shoulder to rest against and hold alignment and powder cant dribbel into the bore as it burns
Ron, tell your buddy I dig the Stormy Kromer hat. Excellent choice.
Joseph is always ready for a storm.
Mr. Kromer has kept my head from being frosty.
Starting my .22 creedmoor ar10 build just waiting on a barrel
That ain't going to kick at all!! That sounds like a sweet build.
Just in case anyone wonders why the 22 Creedmoor has a 30° shoulder instead of the Ackley-Improved 40°: Hornady has stated that they stay with a 30° shoulder to reduce scrap (damaged cases) during production.
Ackley don't make the brass you have to fire forming it. If hornady made 40° shoulders it would be an Ackley.
@@bobbellew9240 The 22 CM case dimensions are not that far off from the 22-250AI, but the COAL is considerably longer at 2.7" vs 2.35". The Creedmoor has less taper, and a longer neck as well as a faster twist ( 1:8" vs 1:14")
It is actually possible to buy Ackley Improved cases and even ammo for several cartridges, but the most common is the SAAMI listed 280AI, which I have seen at my local Wal Mart. Hornady makes a 162 grain 280AI load, so they have experience with the 40° shoulder. Some other cartridges that they have made, like the 284 and WSM series have 35° shoulders. The Hornady guys, when asked why they use 30° shoulders instead of something steeper on their new cartridges cited high scrap rates with steeper angles. I figured that someone would eventually ask why Hornady didn't use a steeper shoulder like the 22-250AI.
@@bobbellew9240 My first response disappeared, so I'll try again.
Ackley Improved brass and even ammo is available from several vendors. The 280AI is SAAMI listed and fairly common. Hornady makes a 162 grain load with the 40° shoulder.
In a podcast, when someone asked why Hornady sticks with 30° shoulders instead of the 40° like the AI's or 35° like the 284 or WSMs, they stated that the sharper shoulders tend to create more scrap or require additional steps, raising cost. I figured someone would ask why the 22 CM does not have a 40° shoulder.
@@bobbellew9240 I checked the 22 Creedmoor against several drawings of 22-250 AI reamers. FWIW, the 22 CM has less taper and a slightly longer neck. Standard twist is 1:8" vs a 22-250's 1:14". Max cartridge length is 2.7" vs the 22-250's 2.35" to allow the longer bullets to stay our of the case.
This is true, making a 40 degree shoulder is best done by fire forming. The real answer should have been to make the factory new ammo with 30 degree shoulders but chamber all the rifles and cut all the dies with 40 degrees. That way the guns do the leg work of making the 40 degree shoulders for reloaders, and non reloaders will never care for the difference
Yeah.... figured that combination out oh, 20 years ago. Gunsmith thought I was nuts, said my 55 gr8 bullets would fly apart. I just told him to build it, paid for it, and let him have his opinion. After that, we had fun working up loads in it, and a fast twist Swift. In the end, the little bullets still aren't infused with any magic when the weight gets up in the 80 gr8 range. Haven't retired my 243 Win or 257 Roberts yet, too much fun!
Ron the 22 CM sounds like a wonderful cartridge for someone that's not a handloader. Having heavy bullets offered in factory ammo is a plus. I took a little different turn and had my Bergara 22-250 barreled with a 28 inch 7 twist. It came in a 9 twist and was .5 to .3 moa gun with Berger 73g target bullets. I mostly enjoy target shooting long range but do love ground hog and coyote hunting. The 7 twist has transformed this rifle to a very accurate rifle with 88 g target bullets. I'm getting ready to load some Hornady 80 edlx bullets for the hogs and coy's. But like the 22CM the 88g's have about half the wind drift of the Berger 73's and considerable less than a 55g.
It was much cheaper to have the rifle barreled in the 7 twist than buying a rifle chambered 22CM not counting new dies and brass. I'm coming in just a little slower than a 22CM at 3100 fps but I can live with that.
I'm just a little romantic about some of the older cartridges that most of the time just need a faster twist barrel. So much I just had a 6mm Remington built with a long action so I could load the modern high bc bullets long and not restricted by magazine length. I had it built with benchrest shooting in mind. The 6mm has a 7.5 twist 30" straight barrel and shooting dots at a hundred .2 and .3 at 300yds. I shot yesterday at steel at 500yds, I have 12" 10, 8, 6, 4, and 2 inch steel set up. All are pretty easy to hit all the way down to the 4 inch, the 2 inch is rough, I only hit it twice.
I think my gunsmith thought I lost it when I said I wanted it chambered in 6mm rem when there are so many great 6mm chamberings out there. I just smiled and said I'm a Romantic with the older rounds that people have forgotten, or are forgetting.
I would tell anyone that's a handloader get that old 12 twist 22-250 out and have it barreled with a 7 twist and watch it come alive with the new heaver bullets.
Scott
Love my 22 Creed build!
I keep my 22-250 eith a Sierra 52 grain hollow point boat tail.pushing close to 4000.fps out of the barrel
the .22-25 has much higher wind drift down range due to the lower BC bullets
Randy from The Real Gunsmith corrected Joseph big time on an article he wrote on a Sako S20 6.5 Creedmoor. Lol he got corrected like Ron does occasionally. Keep the good content coming.
Have a 6mm Creedmoor Savage. I remember when the Valrie was the hot 22 don’t hear much about it nowadays.
The Valkyrie is a joke, The most finicky cartridge i ever messed with, Forget the Valkyrie
More like finicky people instead of a finicky cartridge. They should have kept the same 10 mm 40 Smith & Wesson rim on the bottom of the 224 Valkyrie case, instead they cut it down thin because of dumbassery.
There are so many new cartridges and bullet offerings now that outperform "legacy cartridges" especially at long ranges. The problem is these new offerings outperform the classics when the target is paper. The jury is still out when the target is game. I reserve judgment.
I love coyotes. Used to spend time with those in the canyon by my home before sunrise. Had a few that would walk with me on the trail. They are fascinating and smart. Some can even be friendly when they get used to seeing you. Even had a neighbor with some living under her porch.
I love all animals, but since the Wolves have mostly disappeared, Coyotes have taken over and are out of control.
John Applegate swore by the 22-250 up to including deer. The 250-3000 in 115gr-117gr. Hit coyote and deer like a lightning bolt. PO Ackley spoke of the 3000fps as the sweet spot for many calibers
Got to love that cold barrel flyer! 😮
Ron that 22 Creedmore is so impressive...WOW...and big heavyweight 80 grain bullets OMG !!!...and you can buy FACTORY ammo !!!.....that is going to be a killer deer cartridge .All of your vidios are 100% top shelf !!!....I loved it when you told him....now don't flinch ,,,that was an absolute riot 😅😅😅,keep up the great work.
I also shoot a pre word War model 70 300 hh.
You have not talked about it.
6 inch pie plate at 1000 yards seldom miss.
Leo, we've posted a couple of videos about my buddy Steve's old M70 in 300 H&H and will do another one or two soon because he's finally found a replacement barrel. I've also touched on the 300 H&H in a Parkwest Rifle I borrowed for a Mozambique safari two seasons back. Handloaded Hammer bullets in it to get 1/2 MOA and amazing MV. Proved deadly on waterbuck, impala, bushbuck, hartebeest, warthog, etc. Oh, and I did a SD whitetail hunt video in which I used that same 300 H&H Parkwest rifle, which is mechanically quite similar to the M70. Love that sleek old 300 H&H!
I’ve got a burgara 1x9 22/250 and hand load for it, it does the same thing!
I would use 243 specific load for Varmint hunting where entire gunpowder load is less by using more of the proper filler and bullet at X grains is less, I want to say there is a specific Coyote and similar sized animal grain and load combo. I already have a Remmington 8600 Varmint Hunter early model due to being a left eye dominate shooter for long deer hunting, so using the ideal ammo for my gun it was made for shooting long distance already.
Very cool what they are doing with ammunition these days. You can really get alot of punch with a small caliber now.
I hope you will explore the 22ARC as well. There are people who have used the 22 Creedmoor for many years and many of these people have found that 1000 rounds is about the maximum for a barrel. This is a very hot load and is evidently a barrel burner. Also, while many people do enjoy shooting varmints with bolt actions, myself included, but many people also enjoy shooting varmints with a very accurate AR, myself included again. While all of the popular varmint cartridges can be acquired in a bolt action rifle, only some of them can be acquired in the light and handy AR-15 platform. Obviously, one could get an AR-10 chambered in 22-250Rem, 22 Creedmoor, or even the .243Win, however these rifles are typically significantly heavier which can be a problem for younger and smaller statured shooters. While the 22 Creedmoor is most definitely a hotter cartridge with a little more range, I think the 22ARC will also give the extended range that the the 22 Creedmoor provides over the 22-250Rem and the .223Rem but the 22ARC can still be chambered in the lighter AR-15 platform. I would also expect that the life expectancy of a barrel chambered in 22ARC will also be significantly longer than that of the 22 Creedmoor. I definitely hope that you and Joseph will explore the 22ARC.
{-"The high cost of a box of the only factory load available combined with the difficulties in handloading sentence the 5.56x57 to life in the periphery. Most shooters won’t bother putting up with the drawbacks when other lightning-fast .224 cartridges exist. But in the right hands, probably of an aficionado of rare calibers, this little-known 5.56x57 can work wonders. In Europe, the used gun market regularly offers high-quality guns chambered in 5.6x57mm. For low costs, at that.
For now, the cartridge might only be of interest for gun nuts. -"}
I've got 120 new rws cases waiting for a barrel
Thanks, Ron. That was a good one!
Seems like a great Antelope load, considering replacing my 243win with it, same velocity but higher BCs.
I have watched you since day , keep up the great work
i want all the cool new guns but i’m poor, Mr Spomer! So I just watch videos instead😅
Have you guys cryogenically treated your fast twist barrels to improve rifling life? I recommend it.
Hey Ron, love your show!
Where did you get that coat?
A gunsmith years ago used to chamber a 22-243 middlestead hot rod
Ron apparently is well aware of the .22/243 Middlestead. In limited testing in a 25.5" bbl., I've already found 3 different powders that will push the standard 62 grain fmj's to over 4,000 fps using Winchester and Lapua cases.
I've also tested considerably more extreme case capacities like a .300 Chey-tac with sleeved .22 caliber tungsten cored projectiles at velocities slightly in excess of 6,000 fps... and also, the quite difficult .22/284 which was not worth the effort, nor the very short barrel life that resulted. Which brings us back to the Middlestead which is easy to form from readily available .243 Win. brass... and seems to be the limit insofar as a reasonable very fast .22 caliber cartridge. It also gained some interest for experimental purposes... through the DOD.
I love to see “fine-tuning” and innovation of modern cartridges. Unless a short action is the deciding factor, 243 Winchester needs to be discussed when talking about a cartridge that has a varmint-deer/pronghorn crossover. I think an AI/PRC-style tuning of the 243 would be very worthwhile.
Would be nice if you could mention the rifles available made for this calibre
Fast twist factory barrel
In Australia there is very strict laws for suppressors
You mentioned recoil in short
What about decibel levels ?
Comparison was really good but lacking a lot of info on the main subject
the numbers are great, but it comes at the cost of recoil and barrel life. I went to .243 with lite bullets for a while, but loosing site picture sucked. I think 22BR or 22BRA is the sweet spot.
Very true on barrel life 😢
204 Ruger if you like to keep the fur 🙂
surely all this shooting out to 600+ yards is at targets not game, trying to hit a rabbit or fox at that distance is going to be difficult, the pray only has to sneeze and you have missed in the time it takes for the projectile to get out there?
I thought it was the 22 ARC that Hornady just released.
They released both. Both just showed up on the SAAMI site in the last week or so.
The ARC is for the AR platform. The 22 creedmoor is better for bolt guns.
I believe 22 creed was released before the 22 arc. But hornady is definitely pushing their 22 arc more than the 22 creed
@@ColoradoAirgunner yes, the 6mm ARC was intended for gas guns, because of the COAL putting it in an AR-15 platform. The creedmoor rounds fit in an "AR-10" platform, which makes it a little more challenging and undesirable to put in a gas gun. But, they're also making 6mm arcs in bolt guns, which is exciting. I agree though, you are right about the gas and bolt guns
@@chadillac95 The drawings for both on the SAAMI site are dated 01/21/2024.
Would like to hear more about 6.8spc. I have a mini 14 on 6.8spc. Good for eastern coys
Ron, this has nothing to do with this particular video but it’s in my mind and I thought I’d mention it. You’ve done very interesting interviews with other RUclipsrs such as Hickok45 and WhoTeeWho. Is there any chance you could interview Paul Harrell? I’m a fan of both you and Paul. Even though your education and experience are very different, you’re both very knowledgeable and sensible when it comes to firearms. I feel that a conversation between you and Paul would be really interesting.
What kind of jacket is Ron wearing? It's sweeet!!!
Weatherwool. It's merino wool.
Hi Ron. Don't laugh at me. My varmint rifle is a model 70. In 225 Winchester. With a old 3to9 Redfield scope. It been knocking varmints for a lot of years. You can probably tell I'm getting old and definitely old fashioned. 😊
I just found a supper short mag didn't know they existed 😅 so I bought it man it is fast
Nice work guys! Look forward to seeing how this round proliferates.
If you are shooting Deer at 500 yards it makes sense, but most hunters hunt Deer well under 300 yards. If you don’t have a rifle, then 22 CR makes sense, but if you already have a 22-250, I don’t think any reason to replace. Also don’t think ammo will be easily available for it.
Has anyone looked back in wildcat history, at the “224 TTH”, is the name, I believe for a rem.244/6mm necked to accept 90 grain bullets in a 7-9 twist barrel. I believe it was improved to 40 degrees. The article was about using it as a bean field deer rifle.
yup I'm a 243 guy my self and taken a lot of deer with it.
Great vid, fellas.
I am happy to see this, as I am intrigued with this cartridge.
I can understand the happy Gilmor attitude for a new fast Wildcat cartridge..I remember the 221 fireball back in the day .in our state we can't hunt deer with .22 cal . .so I guess it's a only purpose rifle to be ground hog and coyote shooting..I have thought of a wild cat load for .338 prc.take a .338 mag cartridge ..shorten overall case 1 inch. Use 34 degree shoulder.. neck down to shoot 7mm prc long bullets 147 gr .168 gr and 175 gr .. just a idea. I think it would be a excellent cartridge for long range coyote ..deer ..and large elk
The Ackley Improved never fired 80g bullets. Just a hot rodded 22-250
A'll just keep my 243
Just call everything a creedmore!😂😂😂
@@robertdinicola9225yes they have a 243 creedmore too, already. It is called the 6.0 millimeter creedmore. Or 6 creedmore. Because a 243 is a 6 millimeter is a 243 is a 6 millimeter. Same thing. K the measurement is the same. 243 winchester and 6 creedmore are two totally different guns. Anyways, super cool! I don’t own one I gotta regular 243 also and I like it greatly. But I just think the creedmore ideas are really cool. With the 1:7 twists and the long bullets
I agree. Just don't shoot 100 gr soft tip. The BC sucks past 200.. A 90 grain stabilizes better.👍
*I'll
Yes , thank you.@@sinisterthoughts2896
This seems like a fantastic cartridge
I've nothing against these new cartridges. But, just like this video, all the reviews compare the same basic cartridges with way different bullet weights.
This and all other such reviews are totally misleading. Why not compare the two cartridges, with the same bullet weight? Totally waste of time watching this and everyone else's reviews who do this.
-btw, I've a huge firearm collection and studied this stuff for 50yrs. Building a 6arc right now, and might do a 22Arc as well.
You are spot on! My 60+ years reloading and collecting rifles have reached the same conclusion !
The main purpose of the the creedmoor’s is they’re designed from the ground up to shoot longer high bc bullets and rifles come from the factory with twist rates to accommodate. Sure you can get 22-250 ai to do the same thing as the creed with hand loads and a custom barrel. Same goes for 6 creed v 243 and 6.5 creed v 260 Remington. Though one could argue how necessary all of that is at normal hunting distances. Regardless new cartridges that push the envelope and get people interested in. Firearms is always a good thing.
In 2 months theyre will be a brand new special super ultra 22 out there for everything to buy.
Why not just get a faster twist barrel for you 22-250 and use the longer/heavier bullets? It looks like same powder capacity. It is the BC that is helping those numbers.
Yes, you could do that, but you'd be 100 to 150 fps slower. And there's the hassle and expense of making and mounting the custom barrel. If you're going to that much trouble, you might as well make it an Ackley Improved, and if you're going to do that you might as well just get a factory chambered 22 CM.
@@RonSpomerOutdoorsyou know Ron I almost agree except anywhere you go people are going to ask what you shooting and you are going to have take the walk of shame and say a creedmore. I can’t do it !!!
RON,just curious what brand of coat you are wearing in this video? Really neat looking coat! thanks JIM
Weatherwool.com
22 creedmore is one of the few new calibers i think is worthy of hanging around. 22 creed and 350 legend actually do things that nothing else already does for the hunting comunity (factory loaded saami spec) The prc's are kinda in that boat too, but really only for hunting out west. Anything under 350 yards the prc's are just costing more money to shoot. The 6.5 creed that everyone LOVES is awesome at punching paper at long range, but for hunting game at sane distances, id rather have a regular 270
If that thing is around in 10 years we will be mighty suprised - we all know this is nothing more than come all boys and spend more of them bucks!
Ron compare 22 creedmore with 224 valkarie!
creed has a huge advantage over the 250 ai as well simply for the high quality brass offerings
i wanna see this thing slinging the new ELD-VT that hornady uses in the new 22 ARC 62 grain i believe?
It’s a sweetheart of a cartridge
My biggest problem with the 22 CM is its competitors. A few companies like browning and Bergara are putting a faster twist barrel on the 22-250s for longer heavier bullets. 6mm CM even going a bit slower still has a higher BC than most .224 offerings. I think the biggest problem for it will be the 22ARC because of its use in the standard AR platform that people are leaning towards. When placed in a bolt gun the 22ARC is within 150 to 200fps of the 22CM burning 10+ grains les powder. I'm not saying the 22CM is a bad cartridge, only that in today's era of "NEW" cartridges the majority of them seem to be old "FUD" rounds given a faster twist and a good spit shine. 22-250/22CM, 264 win mag/ 6.5PRC, 300WM/300PRC, 7mmRM/ 7PRC, 270WSM/ 6.8western. All the rounds listed can be given a fast twist barrel and match or exceed the new.
Hey Ron, what would u prefer, a 6GT vs 22 creed, best BC lead free bullet on both( Cali), which would be better at 500yd plus? I like speed, but want the better performer at 500yd up... For Hunting and performance
Great team you guys
Been shooting the 22.250 Ackley for fifteen years. Barrel is 25&3/8 getting same numbers out of it. I’m disappointed now, thought I was going to be buying a new gun
Where can I buy the paper targets like the ones used in this video?
Don't forget the old 5.6x57rws as well
Going that fast the barrel will have a short life. So is the rifle that you buy, will I be able to replace the barrel or is that something that a professional will have to do?
Great Video guys!
You have to first do an assessment of what your primary quarry is and distance you plan on engaging your targets. 22 cal is best utilized for target, varmints and predators to 500 yds period. Can it be pressed to kill medium sized game? Yes. Is it ideal? No. Can it engage targets to 1000 yds? Yes. Is it ideal? No. Every cartridge/ bullet caliber has its limitations, know them.
Just wanting to know your opinion on how the 5.56 varment rounds through a 1/7 twist rate 24+ inch barrel would stack up in the varment world?
Ron, is that a felted wool jacket?… who makes that and where to get?
Cool vid, keep up the great content!
Jacket is Weatherwool. Merino wool, not felted.
Wondering if you could use this on deer? I usually am not in an area that you can see 100 yds. I have to search for a range over 200 yds. So I’m thinking at ranges of 200yds and in; could this be a good whitetail round?
thought Hornady was all in on the 22ARC ? what happened to the 223 WSSM.
3k! I'll stick with my 22-250!