Why You Should Never Plan Your Myths or Legends - Campaign Creator #22
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2019
- We take a look at myths and legends within your world, and how you can go about working them into your campaign and world on the fly. We make use of World Anvil, a fantastic world building tool which you can find at www.worldanvil.com
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I think there is one crucial flaw in how you approach myths. Myths aren't just stories people told each other, they were means of survival. In ages when writing didn't exist, and later when very few could actually read or write, people had to transfer knowledge through generations. Well, they could either raise everyone to be great philosophers and thinkers, or to just craft stories that would exemplify a core value or goal and simply pass that story on.
Take the myth of Gilgamesh, for example, it's a story about coming of age, about being who you can be, about duty and about immortality and transcendence. Each one of these would take modern authors a lifetime of pondering over, only to reach answers that were already in the story.
Another important thing of myths and legends is that they shape cultures. Not only they carry important values, like stated above, but they have some more practical influences. Take the Romans, in their founding myth Remus and Romulus disagree on which hill Rome should be built. Romulus marks an area, a border, on which a wall to protect his city would be built. Remus crosses that border, a fight starts and Romulus kills Remus, becoming the first king of Rome. This myth is so fundamental to Roman culture that you can see it everywhere. Rome has several walls within it, not just because they liked walls but because they would only consider as "Rome" the part of the city within said walls, and crossing certain borders within the city would actually change your status as citizens as well as your rights. Walls were even military strategies, employed by great generals such as Cezar, who would often build walls around enemy walls and fortress. This might sound a bit too vague, but the truth is you cannot understand the mind of a Roman, specially ancient roman, or their culture or their society or policies, without understanding that founding myth.
So, making myths on the fly and just saying weird stuff that SOUNDS like myths isn't a good approach. Your players might not know the importance of a myth, but deep down they will recognize that something about your myth sounds too artificial, too off putting.
Still, I'm not saying you should go overboard with it, only that it doesn't hurt to take a few minute to at think of a myth, add at least one message or value in it and make it show on the world itself. Thats what makes a myth real. Maybe the goddess of the moon once blessed their people and during a drought crops grew at night, and so on the full moon during january they have a week of festivities. Or perhaps there is a legend about the great warrior who died after no one took him in during the rain, so it's considered common courtesy to invite in anyone on the streets when it starts to rain - and a grave insult if you refuse the invitation. Or a village is having troubles with goblins and bandits all around, but the local noble refuses to send help because the village is much older than the kingdom and has special privileges, one of them being that no soldier of the kingdom would ever march in their territory.
I know some of these examples aren't all that good, i'm not really good with making stuff up on the fly, but what is important here is the idea behind it. Make myths that are actual myths, it doesn't take long and it will make your world much richer and if you players do engage with it they will find it a lot more entertaining.
Damn man, make your own worldbuilding vids. I'd watch em.
something one should keep in mind is that Myths and Legends are different
I've often considered myths and legends to be more useful in researching a cultural history or a historical context than the supposed records and "evidence" (as it exists) might be...
AND not all myths are necessarily going to wrap up nicely to present an exemplified value or morality system... Many of the old stories were simply attempts to make sense of the world. You can think of some of these kinds of stories as the Grandpa (Elder) figure trying to answer all the questions from a bunch of little children.
Re-read some of the old stories, and think about it from that perspective, and see if it doesn't make a kind of new weird sense to you... "Grandpa, Why do...?"
Why do Japanese bedrooms always have the beds pointing north?
Why are Graves dug in certain cultures so the headstones always point due west?
Why don't people chase the swallows out of the eaves of the house?
...even if they believe that a bird in the house means someone in the family is going to die???
Who ever thought of an owl as the perfect messenger of Death?
Why do we celebrate the harvest on the same day every year??? Even if the harvest comes in slower/later?
Why is Planting Season always started on the same day every year... even when it's warmer earlier?
Old holidays commonly came around the same four times every year... Spring and Autumn Equinox and Summer and Winter Solstice... AND even today, if you look them up (any Almanac will explain) the Holiday Celebrations around the world coincide dubiously closely... regardless of the particular "myths" or "legends" or other reasons involved culturally...
Just like Mythic Heroes arose to teach values that supported or enhanced a particular culture, Parents OFTEN used Ghost and Demon stories to teach children to stick close (or stay indoors entirely) when evening came about and night fell.
We enjoy a world full of lights and electricity, and it's still often dangerous to go wandering about at night... Not for hordes of hungry predators, but simply because humans are clumsy creatures with piss poor night-vision and even worse low-light depth perception... BUT to a small curious child, it's easier to assure them that there's a Boogey Man out there lurking about to trip them up and steal them away to make them slaves or eat them... alive and screaming if it suits the purpose.
Finally, it's worth an honest mention that we Humans are very VERY prone to "personify" things. We're especially prone to personify things we don't readily and easily understand. SO a lot of plain old Lore comes from our own psychology of projecting our emotional contexts onto things around us when we fail otherwise to be able to explain it in just so many words and syllables...
Enter (or think about) the myriad names of mountains and volcanoes with personalities and gods (or goddesses... ahem, Hawaii) that are extremely temperamental and sometimes lash out and rend everything asunder... because the god of the mountain is angry.
Zeus and Odin were both gods of Lighting... both leaders, and both at least occasionally quite temperamental, too...
If you still want for some otherwise unmentioned... obscure... or just plain kinda fun myths to peruse for inspiration, I've found "Overly Sarcastic Productions" (channel on YT) and their "Miscellaneous Myths" series to be of great help in at least "sounding like a damn genius" at the Table... when I conjure up another legendary thingamawhatsis... ;o)
Good work, but I think Guy was meaning legends as opposed to myths 😅
Amazing comment, I prefer your take on myths as well
Turns out the queen is actually a lich and the rubies are the shattered pieces of her flactery and if they ever come together they will reform, reviving the lich. the flactery would then telleport too it's master setting up the big bad. the mad queen!
This is super cute.
Well, it just sort of seemed the natural thing.
Alternativley, The Queen is actually a good lich who scammed Orcus for power, and upon her return, Orcus chooses a champion, the BBEG.
As a GM that fully plans out my myths and legends in advance I was interested to see what this video would hold. For me creating the world and its lore is the best part so I don't think it has changed much for me personally but I think that it is generally good advice for your average person. Whether or not the players interact with the lore in my world isn't really why I make it in the first place though, I want the world to feel like a real place that people have lived in for thousands of years and in order for that to be a true as I want it to I need to understand what has happened within it regardless of whether the players are aware of the things that have happened before their time. Solid advice to make the legends something that can be interacted with in the modern era, I actively strive to make that true in my world though usually not quite as directly. Those legends tend to have a lasting impact on the world, such as the orcs in my world reproducing only through risking their life in some form of conflict, and the players can dig in to why that is the case or even try to reverse it should they figure out more about it even though the entity responsible is long since gone.
[Edit] I will say this though, nothing makes me happier than when one of my players takes a keen interest in part of the history of the world. It's also worth noting that I intend to use the world I've built into perpetuity so even if one group does not take interest in any particular thing I have created, someone eventually might. (perhaps even the same players with different characters)
*Picture Of World Anvil*
*Guy* : Dungeon Fog!
My players recently were involved in an adventure involving a coven of Hags. Previously, they had killed one of the Hags. The remaining Hags had gathered to claim their changelings from their foster families. The players had come to know and care about one of the children. They knew something was afoot, and that the child was special.
I wanted to convey some information to the party by way of a fairytale. Initially I was going to have an NPC read it to the children as the players listened, but hearing Guy in my head, I realized it would be much better to get the PCs directly involved. I had the children burst into the party's room, nearly tackling the Lizard man warrior of the group, (who speaks with a deep gruff voice), pestering him until he agreed to read them their bedtime story! (I had the text prepared as an item in Roll20 for the PC to read). The children critiqued him (as children do), demanded redo's when he didn't do something to their liking, all of which the player, and the rest of the group delighted in! Meanwhile, what would have been an "info-dump", became a gem of a roleplay moment. Having a gruff character (for Save or Dice Fans, think Draxus) reading a bedtime story was priceless!
The Very Little Kobold
Kindness the Kobold was very sad.
Cycle after cycle she tried to hatch an egg, but try as she might, no little kobold
arrived.
One day, Kindness was sitting on her most recent egg, which again had not
hatched.
Kindness heard a voice ask "Why are you so sad, little friend?"
She looked up through her tears, and saw a very big Kobold, wearing a very big
cloak.
"My egg has not hatched. I will never have a little Kobold to be my
own", answered Kindness.
"Nonsense", said the very big Kobold, who Kindness noticed had very big teeth, "You
just need some help."
The very big kobold, in the very big cloak, with the very big teeth smiled and
asked, "Would you like my help?"
"Yes please,", Kindness answered, "I'd do anything to hatch an
egg".
"Pass me your egg" said the very big kobold, who Kindness now noticed had
a very big tongue, "I'll help you hatch a very special egg".
Kindness hesitated for a moment, but then remembered how very much she wanted a little
kobold of her own. She handed the egg to the very big kobold in the very
big cloak, with the very big teeth and the very big tongue.
The very big kobold took the egg, and turned her back on Kindness.
Kindness heard a sound like a very big gulp, then a very big grunt, and then a very big
plop!
The very big Kobold, in the very big cloak, with the very big teeth, and the very
big tongue bent over, turned around, holding a very big egg!
The very big egg was handed to Kindness.
The very big egg glistened with hope.
The very big egg sparkled with promise.
Kindness was so excited, she didn't notice the very big egg was very much
bigger than all the other eggs she had tried to hatch.
As Kindness held the very big egg, a crack appeared. Out of the
crack popped the nose of a very little Kobold!
Kindness looked up through tears of joy to thank the very big Kobold, but not the very
big tongue, nor the very big teeth, nor the very big cloak, nor the very big
Kobold were anywhere to be found.
So what happened? Were they able to figure it out?
@@samuelhagberg3694, they had put together the child might be some sort of changeling. They had not picked up on the importance of the 4 other children at the Winery/Resort (2 of which were also changelings), nor of the importance of the two old women who were cooks at the resort.
A frolic in a maze with a promised picnic lunch in the center turned horrific as Red Caps attacked, attempting to take the children, but interpreted as just an attack of a dangerous establishment. However, the abduction was foiled.
The second attempt was by Giant Worker Ants (they tend the vineyard) attacking the swimming pool. The adults had the children climb the lone tree growing in the center of the pool area, which worked out perfectly for the flying ants set to come the second round! One of the "siblings" and the main changeling were rescued before the flying ants got too far, only to be taken once again by the raging Giant Mole the party had fought their first night prowling the grounds.
The party fought along side some of the parents in a Mountain Geyser (think volcano, but with water), filled with eel hounds, and a very large eel creature who laird there, trying to rescue the children. They already knew the cavern, having been there on another task. The children were brought into englobed ritual circles by the flying ants, last of all the child the part knew, by the giant mole.
The party fought the mole, and some lair effects by the eel. The old women appeared and revealed themselves as hags. First one child, then the other split open at the head, with a newly birthed hag spreading open the skull and crawling forth. The Newly birthed hags mockingly thanked their foster parents before going ethereal.
Some of the party succumbed to a horror effect, seeing the children transform. (home brew Horrified: Frightened & Incapacitated. Two saves must be made in series to shake off the horrific effects. Incapacity resolves first. Fright resolves second. If a character makes the initial save, only incapacity is prevented. Characters successfully saving with advantage may apply the lower value to fright (modifiers apply), potentially shaking off the effects of Horror simultaneously.)
They finally brought the mole to unconsciousness, discovering it to be their friend the Bard/Druid of the Moon! He had fell under the sway of a Hag curse, when switching his ring of animal control with a cursed item, forcing him to change into a raging Giant Mole. Unexpectedly, the party used spells to remove the ring, simultaneously depriving the Hag of the druid's ring anymore.
The girl, seeing her bard/druid friend hurt, got pissed, used some of her latent hag power to break free of the circle. The hags retreated via their Nightmare, who was standing by on the Ethereal plane. (The party had a lantern of revealing, but didn't use it.)
All seemingly well, the party healed, relaxed. Time was running short (we were already running over). They were celebrating the child's birthday. All gathered, her favorite maid brought in a covered cake dish. Lifting it up, it revealed the same maid's severed head! The hag dropped her illusion, cackling! The horror of the moment pushed the girl over the edge, transforming her too into a hag, but of an unexpected type; almost pretty, and powerful. She refused to kill her aunt, but hurled her out a window. She said goodby to the party and her foster parents, and proceeded up the mountain to claim the giant eel creature as "her mount".
I knew I had played it well when I heard cracking voices and saw tears on the faces of many of the players during the goodby scene. I didn't enjoy the grosser aspects of the story, but felt they were important to tell it properly, ditto all the kid danger (we parents don't like that stuff!). The players did very well, tracking down the vast majority of leads, and making the best of a bad situation.
Sorry this was so long!
I’m running a similar adventure right now, where a hag has seeded two twins into a village. Tomorrow is their 13th birthday. They currently think that their mission is to kill the mature hag before she kills the twins; but their mission is actually to kill the twins before they change (I’m a terrible person...). I’m going to use this story to try to get them to do what I want, so thanks!
@@hearmeroar2100 I am thrilled and honored The Very Little Kobold will live on to entertain & taunt another party of adventurers! A bedtime story at nearly 13 could be a bit strange, but perfectly charming if a pre-teen is ill, down, or sad, seeking comfort from a favorite childhood tale.
Looking back in my notes, I was amazed to find how early I seeded all this. The party met Cerise Dark (the child) and her (foster) parents Ceri and Armond while rescuing them from a light house where they had taken refuge after their ship was attacked by Merrow (at the behest of the Hags) during Session 16 on January 6th. (All were feline (tabaxi) and spoke with my poor version of a French accent). The Quickening of the Changelings was during Episode 30 on June 9th! During those 6 months, the party came to know the family and care about the little girl, making the outcome of the story matter. With the Twin's 13th birthday at hand, it sounds like you have a deadline (pun intended), but what if there are two calendars? It is the 13th birthday for the original birth, but on the Fey calendar, quickening is tied to a natural event? Eclipse, forest fire, flood, eruption, blizzard, as befitting the hag type? Now, your Party can kill their hag, and birth them too at a later part two!
One thing I learned from the Battlestar Galactica reboot was that even the Cylons got screwed. Don’t be afraid to have complications that the Hag, and the Twins need to overcome, and that the party (intentionally or unknowingly) can influence. Perhaps one twin is more good/less bad than the other? Perhaps killing (Hag or Twins) is the obvious choice, but will complete the process. Turning the Twins to love/good actual ruins them for the Hag's purpose. Guy is the master at taking whatever is expected and turning that expectation on its head, making the story "that much better"!
Whatever you come up with, remember that your players will do the unexpected! Planning loosely for multiple potential pathways actually makes your job easier; you don't run a railroad, you just lay out lots of possible track, which the Party puts together to where they want to go.
Have a blast, and please let me know how it goes!
NOOOOOOOO STOP GIVING THEM ALL MY SECRETSS NOOOOOOOOO MY PLAYERS WATCH YOUUUUU
My players barely understand english, thus my rulebooks, sources etc are secure from their prying eyes (hail from austria)
My players barely know what they're doing and we've been playing for at LEAST six months
@@CntrazZombie4 I have what you would consider very good players, but that also comes with people who know and follow the rules heavily. Which means building encounters and shit can be pretty tough.
I actually seeded a myth in the first campaign in my world near the beginning. a Year later that myth in my second campaign became the big solution to defeating the Eater of Worlds and got my players hyped when a series of random book titles they were skimming through reminded them of it "Oh shit! There's a golden dragon egg in the center of our world that has been growing ever since!" "But its just a myth" "But what if it isn't just a myth? If we free it, that dragon could stop the world eater!"
And thus, by the end of the second campaign, A new god awakened. Now it is said by those who lived to see the titans battle, that the Dragon continues to eat the Eater of Worlds forevermore, and should she stop, then all the stars, the sun, the moons, the planets, and Tehra herself shall be devoured into nothingness.
In my third campaign this is 127 years later, so while some elves know it is real, as do the some Dwarves and Halflings, the lesser lived races treat it as nothing more than myth, such a worry to far out of their reach to live their daily lives by.
But the players know, they know the truth.
Are any of the characters from that campaign still around to confirm it (assuming they’re elves or dwarves)?
@@benulrand9137 There are, but the lesser lived races more and more as generations go on start shifting the myth around "Well no way the ENTIRE SKY filled with a single visible eye" "You witnessed a dragon god? You would be blind if that happened! No one can look upon a god!" Their preconceived notions begin to color the story, changing hard fact into myth, and even changing the accounts of what was and was not happening at the time.
Then there are those that WANT it to be remembered as a myth, knowing full well the truth could, and DID, break someone. Many went mad the day they stared death into its endless eye...
Literally working on myths and legends for my setting as this video popped up. Great timing, Guy!! 👍
That intro is a great premise for a campaign. Though of course, it's gotta be propaganda from my take on it.
You see, what actually happened was closer to the people of the land revolting against the wicked queen, finally prevailing at the cost of the lives of most. Remnants of her following survived and festered, and so too did her influence over the land (present because of the rubies scattered throughout it), which causes the misfortune that befalls everyone and everything in the land. All they had to do was wait for time to do what it does best, destroy signs of what had been.
Over a few hundred years the events faded into distant, hazy memories for the people, and the cult of the queen began its plan to bring her back, spreading tales of the battle with the wolf, and of rubies grown from blood, eventually enticing adventurers to gather the well hidden pieces to their queen's phylactery FOR them under the impression that the country would be restored (because honestly who wants to spend all that time and effort risking their own life and sanity when more gullible people will do it for you? [Thanks, Madman Mick]).
That said, once she returns, she will retake what she believes is rightfully hers, and then set her sights on finishing what she started centuries ago, whatever that may be...
Edits: Mt Oath was an interesting name. Definitely would've included an oath of some sort in the battle, seemed too easy to pass up giving players what they expect right there.
I love using myths and legends in my campaigns. Just introducing my online players to the history of my homebrew world. They just found a mythic gem of protection for a lost civilization. Had a whole backstory on that gem.
This is a feature of my campaign setting, where myth and history branch out, rather than the future. It starts conflicting with itself, explicitly, because the gods obfuscate as much as possible. It's on the one hand me tipping my hand that the deep past isn't something characters would logically know much about, but on the other hand players can have theories about what the gods are trying to hide. It makes for wonderful intrigue!
That sounds delightfully fascinating!
I....was that 9 year old interested in Ancient Babylon. My grandmother's house used almost all available space for books and she had an interesting life. It left a mark on me.
Very usefull advise. I would add that not all myths have to be explorable or at least not every aspect of them. There is value to mystery and if every mystery becomes a more or less mundane, monster-slaying, riddle-solving, treasure-finding quest your world can start to feel shallow. I think there's a balance to be found here. Anyway, great job! Keep it up
Your videos have been a great help to me in creating my campaign for my players to run with me. Phenomenal work!
"never plan your myths!!!"
>Proceeds to plan out myths
I was that 9 year old, Guy, ha ha ha.
I was reading Edith Hamilton's "Mythology" obsessively at that age, in fact. It was my favorite book and stayed by my side until it fell apart some time at the end of junior high.
; )
I was really into Greek mythology around that age, too.
Mix some DM pre-determined myths and legends with stuff developed by using PC backstories and then later campaigns, use the first campaign's PCs as the subjects of even more myths and legends.
there's a bit of "How did the mutiverse start? Who made the planets, solar system, galaxy... everything?" which should be the subject of legend far before he PCs were borne.
There's a lot of the PCs being akin to Hercules, Jason and the Argonauts and others that ended up becoming legends.
F Huber And then there is that one dude playing as Rincewind, lol
When I was 8 years old my favourite book was about ancient Greek Myths :) but I loved dinos too obv
The way you talk makes me think of Jim Sterling and I love it.
That myth outro was probably the best outro yet xD
5:00 A Crab? You mean like a giant enemy crab? Like the kind that you can attack it's weak spot for massive damage?
Ah, so you know accurate historical feudal Japan as well.
Says 7 year olds aren’t interested in Ancient Babylon.
Proceeds to say that he was interested in something much more ancient.
I've always wondered: what sort of fantasy novels would be written in a universe with magic already in it. Would it have super-magic, that even people in a world where dragons roam and genies grant wishes know is impossible?
I would think it would be similar to how we use cell phones. Magic would just become a tedious mundane act to make life easier. Only those who aspire to greatness would be able to harness any sort of high powered magic, and even then divine intervention should almost always be able to trump that.
Maybe there would be books about magic that works in wildly different ways, or completely outlandish ones with no magic whatsoever.
Interesting. Maybe 'hacking' magic would become a thing, like hacking nowadays. Doing something different to either harm people, fraud them for money - or of course - save the world from the evil oppressive system...
@@robertnett9793 I would imagine guards with true sight items busting common illusion scam artists on the streets, or having a whole network of tiny portals set up in shops that can afford it to deposit their money into a type of banking account.
A couple points...
1. You remind me of an old D&D volume... I think it's the 1e DMG (not sure, and don't feel like rummaging just now) has hand-drawn illustrations in it, and some with captions...
The particular illustration is a basic D&D Party sitting around a table covered in papers and dice, and there's a bystander not completely out of frame, and the wizard is looking up and explaining, "Yeah, we're into this new RPG, where we make Characters and Role Play as College Students, Computer programmers, and stuff in a world without magic but lots of technology."
2. IF you were to be living in a world with 'real' magic, there's one of two basic scenarios to consider. The first type is that magic is an arcane sort of method of tapping energy, not so different from technology that we already have, only by a method of incense, and incantations, casting spells or prayers etc... to make stuff happen, and would thereby still be subject to limits and bounds not so far different from regular physics as we work with, just a bit of a rules change...
The second type would be absolutely bar-nothing, magic... where you can basically do anything and make stuff out of pure nothingness...
It's important to identify this basis or you're going to struggle with a concept of what would even constitute "fantasy"... in the world of which you speak. You have to define some terms of "reality" first off...
In the first type of magic based reality, then... Fantasy could be that "super magic" ideal. Where limits are non-existent, and chaos would be pretty regular unless terms of story elements would impose otherwise...
In the world of basically already "super magic' then... Fantasy would likely be anything that brought some "order" to the mess that would invariably become reality to those people. Think about that... If you can just snap fingers and get something out of nothing at all... it's a fast-track to absolute chaos.
Then the obvious "high concept fantasy" stuff would clearly be an organized sort of existence, where things are allowed (or better still, "Forced") to make sense... to follow some lineage of logic from start to outcome. ;o)
Regarding the myth of the feathers and that mural: I don't understand this trend among youtube DMs to recommend (pardon the hyperbole) to pretty much just wake up, grab some dice, and get going. To me it seems smarter to actually plan the thing, that way the history will be more coherent, if they dig deeper. I don't say that you should throw the collected works of Tolkien at the players for asking about a mural, but you can feed them bits and pieces of an already properly written legend. I also find it easier to change something I have a grasp of rather than pull something out my rear end. If the story is about greed, as you mention, the exact places your clues are, can be improvised, but the myth about a greedy BBEG should already be known, if it is related to the central theme of your entire game. It may just be personal preference, but I prefer a well built and thought out world over something rolled up from a percentile table on google as base and flavoured with whatever your mind can conjure in the moment
I assume you meant World Anvil, not DUNGEONFOG
Magic tricks, ventriloquism, secret codes, how to draw, and greek myths:
All of the subjects I read regularly when I was in 4th grade elementary school.
Oh yes, and everything Roald Dahl.
I feel like you just need myths & history to explain: 1. the relationships between the humans, elves, & dwarves; 2. the lost empire that left all the ruins & magic items the heroes find; 3. the conquests that established the current kingdoms; and 4. a few heroes & villains to use in statues or inscriptions (King Balan the Bold, Moktar the Shadow Lord, Queen Jaznia the Wise, etc.)
5:16 It was Oristeus, a crappy king being ordered to do it by Hera, Zeus' wife.
I love your channel I was kinda forced to be dm Cause our dm got over whelmed because my character had my story then she had in her own story so we switched places and we're starting our homebrew game this week end I have everything planed out on how I want it to go but not when or where that will happen when they make choices on what to do first
The silver bell of deception it became known as and anyone who hears it has disadvantaged on telling fact from fiction and thus the legend of the goblin bell was formed
Great intro!
One doesn't base their Monarchy on orphans accepting swords from strange ladies going for a dip! :D
Baron Elvisio Presley, of the Barony of Southmarch, was my favorite legend to invent. He was known as a famed bard of the guitar.
He, of the gyrating codpiece...
Im at minute 9 now and so far the legends goes: "The Assins the King sent to kill his enemy used a poison that would not actually hurt the enemy, but instead caused him to massacre the entire Kingdom"... I would say this is a very creative way to narrate an Alchemy botch.
Actually I know a 7 year Old kid - my own much younger brother who is very interested in myths. On his own accord he found a childrens telling of the Iliad - and he started postering me with questions about it. As the proper, older brother I am of course obliged to know everythinh so naturally I’m Also rather Well versed in the Epic Cylce hand the Homeric Epics in general. Meaning his curious questions about Hector, Achilleus, and Agamemnon didn’t face me. Until he asked me one faithful question right before bedtime: “Lauge, who actually killed Prince Paris” and I came up short. My illusion as the allknowing being was shattered - except for when I dm ;)
I guess what I’m trying to say is that out there really nerdy 7 year old kids exist. And that it is not fair for them to ask hard question about non-Homeric pre-5th century BCE Greek literature
Guy- "Hmmm, what was it? I can't remember"
Also Guy- lists a gazillion myths and legends
I very much appreciate you my dude, you have taught me a lot. But I have been using Inkarnate as my map creator, because it looks a lot better than world anvil. Sure WA as a lot of different features and stuff to use for world building but I learned right away from one of your other videos that people don't really care about all that stuff, especially in the beginning. I had a guy start off in a Dragonborn city because he didn't read in my History/Race Info (even my TL;DR points) that it was a Dragonborn city and was shocked to hear that in session zero. I don't get the point of using WA. Just wish I did a soft intro before session 1 started and let them figure things out through NPCs and History checks. So really what am I writing all this stuff down for in these tabs in WA? For me? I already have it in my head.
One is his eye
One is his heart
One in his... Peen
What was the youtube channel you dm'ed on? Sounded like Sable dice. Is there a link?
At a fairly young age (6/7) I was all about myths and legends. I loved the film Hercules which was my first step into Greek Mythology and ancient Greece. After that I was lucky enough to go on holiday to Crete and other Greek Islands so I was fascinated about it all from a young age. I therefore disagree that young children aren't into Myths and Legends, but maybe I'm the odd one out.
Nice
Okay, I'll need the other locations, each one leading to the next. I'll need the Great Wolf, gaurding the last one (hmmm, how can it be stopped?). Maps! I should practice my crazy old man voice. Oh, wait, I am a crazy old man.
Ooh...an unscrupulous merchant will give the party his if....
Wasn't intrested in Babylon at that age, but I was intrested in Egypt
To me there is a distinction. A myth is mostly a made up story with moral and cultural lessons and significance imparted to quickly explain a concept or series of concepts. A legend is more based on broken telephone from real history that is more or less based in actual events but may be very far or close to the actual history. And a legend ca also be re write one of 3 main ways; 1) accidentally over time/retelling 2) intentionally but for the reasons of good storytelling and dramatic flair or 3) intentionally altered for political and agendas reasons (cultural agenda, morality shift, etc.)
Also don’t ma up random nonsense! Myths and legend have deep cultural impact and significance! They should be connected to the way a culture behaves and why! Such as burial and funeral rites, holidays, eating rituals, clothing, and any number of other things.
Consider your coutures, and history and the behavioural quirks and create myths and legends interwoven WITH the future of the world, region and country! They are linked! Look at Ancient Rome, Japan, Ancient Greece, heck ALL CULTURES from ALL of our real world history.
Don’t hand wave ‘who’ gave Hercules the 12 trials; RESEARCH IT! I promise you it IS important! Quick google search, get books, watch myth based RUclips videos.
I can agree wit sometimes having it had a treasure BUT as the legend and myths can also very much BE a core expression of the world itself. They can be just an important aid in world creation, building and developing our cultures and understanding GMing and writing for the campaign. One idea also leads to another as well!
Good video regardless.
I kinda think you can work on them a bit beforehand. But shouldn't attempt to do every single one.... there's way beyond too many. lol
There's always room for new on-the-fly legends and myths and such.
and one in his......spleen. *sniggers*
Myths and legends are cultural touchstones which tie groups of people together and explain the world around them. In a society which is mostly illiterate, they are one of the primary methods of cultural transmission and immensely important.
One thing to mention there is that, historically, they both have at least a grain of truth but often have parts missing. Was there a king in Britain named 'Arthur'(or something akin)? Sure. Are the Arthurian legends true? *winces* not....as....such.
In an RP context, every race would have a few legends which the PCs would know (because they grew up on them) and a few legends which they wouldn't know (because they are too old or obscure). In the example you mentioned with spleen-man, it's quite possible that one of the PCs could know the _basics_ of the legend (perhaps incorrectly).
Thanks, Guy, for opening up this topic. It's a rich field that can be mined to enhance immersion and verisimilitude with only a small amount of prep-work.
i was reading bullfinch's mythology at 9 years old
I read the Book of the Dead (Egyptian), the Mayan pantheon myths, and the epic of Gilgamesh by the age of 9... So they exist!
Geezer here...
Agree, myths and tales are a part of at least all known human cultures and people. Spend a lot of time and thought on it. Great way to avoid getting preachy and give players insights and clues.
Totally disagree with doing it on the fly. Love to improvise, hate even more to rework. Or worse fade to black and announce to players that whatever from last session was a mistake. The wizard or campaign god made it all change or go away.
Also myths are a great reward for many players. Give that pc immortality without the necromatic downsides.
Hey as for 9 year olds with high interest in mythology and history. You will need your time machine. I seriously had my parents scratching their heads at that age. Along with annoying the heck out of a lot of older people. Most Christians find being told their faith was not the first with a flood myth really annoying. Yea, I was a weird kid, loved to watch the veins throb.
Hera told hercules he was to work for the king , the king set the tasks , the king betrayed hercules
At the age of nine I knew more about Norse mythology than the majority of the adult population. Granted, i was reading the Valhalla comics at the time, but still...
I was that 9 year old reading the myths of Babylon
Plans... Yeah... Because plans always work as a DM. Lol
...and don't get torn to shred by the players in 30s.
From experience I can tell, that plans fail mostly due to three reasons.
First - the plan is too confined. Players have to get information from NPC A, who is hiding in the sewers (small dungeon) and has to be bribed with item X,
the Information then leads to the Temple of Eternal Suffering, which is to be reached by ship (because sea-encounters). However the only ship available needs more crew. and so on and so forth.
The more strict a plot is - the easier is it for the players to get off rail. Maybe they don't want to go to the sewers. Maybe they don't trust the one NPC who has the needed information - or they don't trust the ships captain, wandering endlessly in search of another ship...
It's way simpler, to note some waypoints the players need to reach.
A) They need the information. Among other trustworthy to shady NPCs the guy in the sewers has it.
B) They need to reach the Temple of eternal Suffering. It is not really important how they do this.
Keep a list of names and ad hoc NPCs ready, for when the players partout don't want to talk to a special NPC. Keep a few encounters ready to throw at your players, if they don't go the planned route. Just make sure, they reach the waypoints and you are golden.
The second one is that your plan simply doesn't reasonate with the players. Can happen, especially if you don't know your table. Or simply mistake their intentions.
Sooo the road lead you in this pestilence-ridden city. The gates are closed, black flags hanging from the walls and towers....
Players: Pestilence? Nope. We go around.
(Happened to me once as a player. The adventure would have been to find the source of the plague and end it - but no player was keen on going in a city with the plague and they had no reason... sooo...)
In this case: Have a one-sheet-adventure ready. A simple dungeon, that maybe delivers the information / items the characters should have gotten in the city.
Third - you have one or more disruptive players at the table. There simple are people who just want to see the world (or at least the table) burn. Murder-hobos who just kill everything on sight, self-absorbed attention whores. It's simply sometimes the players are the problem. So you have as a DM to deal with them on another level.
There may be deeper reasons than simple trolling (maybe they are bored, because your adventures are not to their taste, maybe they have another problems, or misinterpreted something).
Here you can only hope to talk the problems out.
In short: Keep your plots flexible to player decissions and keep a good atmosphere at the table, and your plans tend to fail less :D
Fragacide first try dming today, learnt this shit the hard way
Can I ask for your advice? I wanna make sure an idea I'm having wouldn't make people think I'm a dick or annoy anyone.
I'll find you a 9 year-old who's into mythology, my son today was mentioning to my partner how he would talk about Greek and Norse mythology for hours if his friends let him.
12:52 My brother was a 9 year old interested in ancient mythology...
your british accents are so good
what website did he use?
Worldanvil, I believe they're his sponsor
What's the deal with airline food?
Praise Jenks!
That said, I've always started with what actually happened, then just mucking it up with gross exaggeration. Poof! Instant mythos.
There is a time for improv and a time to accurately build things. While you can perfectly improvise fights/encounters/monsters, you can't do the same with Myths and Legends without fucking up and leaving a really bad impression(sooner or later). This is as bad as the "Do not create a lore/ruleset for your world till the first session" kind of advise, what if your world has no trace of guns/gunpowder and someone asks you to play gunslinger... he would feel much worse if you deny it while he proposes at character creation, than when you do it outright with a specific lore reason/rule.
felix was a house cat
As a nine year old,I loved Bullfinch's Mythology.
Just sayin'.
Oh shit! Not his spleen!
Damn, that was a great myth. Now to listen to why you shouldn't have made it.
Am I weird for being fascinated by mythology since I was like 7? Lol
Spartanunit5 nah, I was too, if my memory serves
🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰😍
Do myths and legends exist in a world where magic and monsters are real? Aren't they just history? Sure, not all of them will be true, rumours still exist, but it's practically impossible to distinguish them from facts. what we call a "legend" doesn't really exist in the forgotten realms, because it's probably something that actually happened at some point. Especially creation myths, we know for a fact how the world was created, we can talk with the gods and ask them.
@@gossamera4665 sure, it's true, but at least in the official d&d setting, that's really what it is: gods are dudes that provide a service. There really isn't much space for creation myths when to the question "where do we go after death?" I can reply "probably to hell, I was there last week btw, we've had a cool car race, let me show you." It really takes away all the mysticism.
HERCULES = HERACLES. Same Guy. Easy mistake. Just trying to help where I can.
I was a 9 year old interested in Greek myths....just saying.
"A sword that can kill gods". Are you reading my GM notes?
Guy, you tricked me with click bait. "Why you should never plan myths and legends" and then show us how to plan them. I appreciate you and your videos, but we GM differently. I do not plan half as much as you do and rely more on improving. Both are valid, just different. I just thought you and I might be on the same page this time. Lol
*gatekeeper:* "YOURE TAKING AWAY FROM THE SPIRIT OF D&D BY PREPARINGAT ALL" also caps lock
Have to admit my GM was the one that spent literally years making up histories, myths, legends, giant continent sprawling maps (on graph paper), governments, plotlines, dungeon maps, towns, npcs, monsters, etc etc etc.
And like 99% of that stuff we either skipped over, never noticed, or willfully ignored.
I just want gold and XP BABY! Nobody cares about your stupid history exposition that lasts 4 pages and is totally irrelevant to me killing goblins.
I will steal the mural, the fancy curtains, and pry the magic light stones out of the metal wall sconces tho. And cut up all the bodies and burn them so they don't come back as zombies.
The rogue is too busy fleecing NPCs and chatting with people that don't matter.
The druid is too busy talking to her wolf or whatever and explaining her 30 pages of back story.
The barbarian has already plowed through the nearest door and charged head first into combat (by himself) when nobody was looking.
The hunter is on her phone and waiting to one shot whatever pops up.
The cleric is chatting for hours with his God because they are bros now.
The Bard is busy back at the tavern banging the bar wench and getting drunk.
The paladin is too busy arguing with the rogue about the moral implications of our current course of action.
And the wizard is useless because he has to sleep for 8 hours yet again to actually do anything.