Part of me feels like part of the reason the “Lost Gen” couldn’t break through is because of the lower swingweights and whippier technique. Swingweight doesn’t breakdown under pressure, but having the confidence to swing super fast can break down under pressure.
Guys even younger than "next gen" like Sinner or Alcaraz have low SW too but look more solid imo I think its mostly because more "modern" than "next gen"- hight elbow forehands
Interesting point! My feeling is that it's more mental than technical, because when you see a guy like Alcaraz come around you see what's been missing from the previous next-genners. But a higher swing weight does allow you to swing slower and still get power - look at Zverev, who has a high SW but not the fastest swing.
Great video Jonas! I think it depends what your goals are. I think heavier racquets and SW will always be the best teacher on how to play tennis,although not always your best friend, especially in match play. Coming from 93p and old prestige mps, you are right that they dont hold in the modern tennis game, but I think people should experiment more with adding weight to the more 'modern' racquets to improve their game (swing, timing) and ultimately decreasing injuries because of the increased plowthrough. Current set up: blade v8 16x19 with 15 g added (7 handle & 8 nicely distributed on the upper frame (above 6&9)).I highly recommend trying it.
If the Prestige MP is too demanding you can replace the capped grommets with regular grommets. This will make it much lighter and then you can add lead as needed. This would make a good podcast to see if it works. Apparently microgel radical mp grommets fit.
Back in the days I loved my Babolat Pure Drive Team 2003 model. When I braked it, I switched to Pure Drive GT. At beginning I loved it but than problems started with my elbow. I heard a lot of people were complaining about their elbows with GT model. Then I switched to Head Extreme MP2. Zero problems afterwards. Still playing with it and just love it.
When I was a high school player I had a volkl tour 8, which was an extended length Raquet that was very light. As I’ve gotten older I went up in weight and now I’m going back down. It all goes in cycles.
Interesting discussion. As the pros’ racquet swing weights have decreased, how much of this is due to lower overall weight and how much is due to a more head light balance point?
Fab video Jonas, as always. However, you're missing one very important variable in your analysis. Twist Weight. Or at least, the Stability of the racquet. I have no doubt that younger pros are using lower SW but they would not be able to maintain their consistency without that massive stability. It's also that stability that saves their elbows playing at that intensity with low SW. Now, I have certainly seen TW increases in many retail racquet lines in the past few years perhaps for same reasons but I wonder if Pro stock racquets have even higher TW which us mortals may not be able to handle. Worth researching :)
Thanks! I will research twist weight more in terms of pro players specs. But many pros suffer from elbow issues and take painkillers for them so I'm not sure they play with racquets that are very different from us.
Low swing weight requires faster swing speed which requires better timing which requires better footwork and technique. Horses for courses with this one. I think keeping the swing weight high enough to get the right amount of assistance from your racquet is important - where 'right amount' is dependent on your style of technique, level of technique, and physical conditioning. Going lower without having the ability to swing faster while keeping good timing won't help. But I guess it all comes back to "match your racquet to your technique / style".
Not necessarily, there is another source of power and that is the stiffness of the frame. A lot of modern frames like the Pure Drive use stiffness to generate more power.
I heard this is the main reason why players these days are injuring their elbows. This what not happening that often at the Sampras era. I think Sampras said something that kids should start with a wooden racket to properly learn out to swing (sorry cannot find the exact quote). I used to be Pete's big fan :-)
“I’m where I am because I grew up with wooden rackets. I think children should play with wooden rackets up to the age of fourteen. It’s the only way to learn how to control your shots. The graphite, the power, all this comes later ”.
@@seachangeseachange Actually it's the "combination" of the two. Poly strung at high tension in a stiff racquet is guaranteed to be an arm killer. In the opposite direction, nylon strung at very low tension in a very flexible racquet will also be an arm killer but in a slower manner. So, you just need to find the right combo for your arm.
I think it‘s the question of time when Alcarazz , Fritz ect. will get arm issues in the next years… Last year Tsitsipas had an arm surgery aswell although his racket specs are ok: 337 g strung ( silicone in the handle), 32,7 balance and 340 SW. I think it was the strings ( stiff Luxilon 4g full bed) now he plays with a hybrid ( gut/4g)
Most modern racquets are also made to be easy to hit with. And that makes sense for mass sales. But easiest ain't best. I say, find the lightest racquet you can and polarize the sh*t out of it so that the weight goes exactly where it's needed and not where it feels "comfy." The irony, of course, is that If you know how, the frame ends up easier to swing at 335 kg/cm than any stock 325.
Yes I agree. The important word here is "polarisation" and the effective Recoil Weight. The clue is in the name. The higher the recoil weight, the more effective the racquet in transferring the energy back into ball without exerting excessive pressure on your arm.
I’m a traditional player. I’m currently using Wilson pro staff 6.1 95 v13 strung weight in the low 350s, I have been using these kind of specs for over 20 years but I’m now 40 years old and my game slowly declining. So would you say I should go down in weight and get a bigger head size to stay more competitive?
I’ve been using Bridgestone X-blades recently and I’ve just realised that the Technifibre Tflight RS is Extremely similar to the BS RS 300 (same grommets and beam). I’m wondering if they have the same mould or came out of the same factory? Anyone have any info? Cheers Kings
If you do not know how to do the "whippier" forehand then it is hard to understand it. All it is is a very relaxed wrist that allows much of the throat and head to keep going back as the hand holding the racquet is going forward. Then it rebounds like a pendulum or a bull whip. The increased momentum accelerates the racquet and turns the hand over without using your forearm muscles like Agassi did - it is automatic. It definitely should be taught at tennis academies. Not sure if the average high school kid can achieve good results with it. It takes no strength but requires very good timing. If the racquet is not still moving back when you rotate forward you will not get much of a whip and your shot will not be what you expected. Of course all the ATP players have remarkable timing and can do this very well. Also it makes sense for them to hit a zillion balls. But when you converted from a closed stance forehand with a continental grip to a semi western and open stance rotate and use the wrist to get more low to high and more spin you would have noticed a significant improvement. When you convert from that forehand to a relaxed wrist ATP forehand you will notice more racquet speed with the same expenditure of energy.
Exactly my thoughts. I feel the only area left to improve is comfort in stiff racquets such as Pure Drive and Pro Staff. The spin, control and feel are combined well in other racquets such as Extreme Tour, Speed MP. It's only the stiffer ones that still have room for improvement !
I have a 1993 Head Radical Tour Bumblebee with following strung specs measured by Ring Roll: 340 g, 32,8 cm balance and 335 SW. Perfect racket ( stable, enough plow-through) no need for more weight. Are these specs „Next-Gen“ specs? @tennisnerd
Expcept of too big headsize and too low stiffnes. I have simular frame Head ProTour Lite Customized to simular values: 337 32.5 340SW. Plays very nice with polly but modern frames are stiffer and more aerodynamical imo
The maximum swingweight is 400 and if yours is 650 than you wouldn't get much time to react to the ball at all on the court whether you're at baseline or at the net.
@@Tennisnerd Definietelly big grip for modern game I was looking at some pictures to analize this and he is closer to classic "one finger" rule just like Novak or Stan
They're two different racquets altogether. You're comparing apples and elephants. And no modern racquet has the pin point control of the PS85. The Pro Staff 97, with a bit of silicone in the handle, comes close, though.
@@neertw has nothing to do with the fact that the racket engineers doing a bad job when pros using 10+ yr old frames. If a formula 1 team uses the motor from the last year, they will end up last place. Good comparison?
i am stubborn enough to "live or die" with my old school six.one 95 332 gr 18x20. Recently i received the ncode 90, 340 gr and now it's an exchange between the two in my matches. In Football there is a famous moto : "Against Modern Football" , i guess we can also follow this and be "Against Modern Tennis" : )
Part of me feels like part of the reason the “Lost Gen” couldn’t break through is because of the lower swingweights and whippier technique. Swingweight doesn’t breakdown under pressure, but having the confidence to swing super fast can break down under pressure.
interesting observation!
Guys even younger than "next gen" like Sinner or Alcaraz have low SW too but look more solid imo
I think its mostly because more "modern" than "next gen"- hight elbow forehands
Great comment dude!
@@Slipfrolife I agree those two guys, as well as Ruud, have some great looking fearhands that seem super reliable
Interesting point! My feeling is that it's more mental than technical, because when you see a guy like Alcaraz come around you see what's been missing from the previous next-genners. But a higher swing weight does allow you to swing slower and still get power - look at Zverev, who has a high SW but not the fastest swing.
Great video Jonas! I think it depends what your goals are. I think heavier racquets and SW will always be the best teacher on how to play tennis,although not always your best friend, especially in match play. Coming from 93p and old prestige mps, you are right that they dont hold in the modern tennis game, but I think people should experiment more with adding weight to the more 'modern' racquets to improve their game (swing, timing) and ultimately decreasing injuries because of the increased plowthrough. Current set up: blade v8 16x19 with 15 g added (7 handle & 8 nicely distributed on the upper frame (above 6&9)).I highly recommend trying it.
great video. love the summaries and facts in the captions.
If the Prestige MP is too demanding you can replace the capped grommets with regular grommets. This will make it much lighter and then you can add lead as needed. This would make a good podcast to see if it works. Apparently microgel radical mp grommets fit.
Actually I tried it and it doesn't work! The drill pattern is slightly different on the Prestige Pro. ☹️
Back in the days I loved my Babolat Pure Drive Team 2003 model. When I braked it, I switched to Pure Drive GT. At beginning I loved it but than problems started with my elbow. I heard a lot of people were complaining about their elbows with GT model. Then I switched to Head Extreme MP2. Zero problems afterwards. Still playing with it and just love it.
When I was a high school player I had a volkl tour 8, which was an extended length Raquet that was very light. As I’ve gotten older I went up in weight and now I’m going back down. It all goes in cycles.
Cant let go of a 90 square inch head.. and heavier racquets its a Classic and Classics never goes out of style or trend they are Timeless..
Video on popular college rackets and setups and popular usta racket setups would be interesting
Good idea! I need a trip to the US :)
Interesting discussion. As the pros’ racquet swing weights have decreased, how much of this is due to lower overall weight and how much is due to a more head light balance point?
Fab video Jonas, as always. However, you're missing one very important variable in your analysis. Twist Weight. Or at least, the Stability of the racquet. I have no doubt that younger pros are using lower SW but they would not be able to maintain their consistency without that massive stability. It's also that stability that saves their elbows playing at that intensity with low SW. Now, I have certainly seen TW increases in many retail racquet lines in the past few years perhaps for same reasons but I wonder if Pro stock racquets have even higher TW which us mortals may not be able to handle. Worth researching :)
Thanks! I will research twist weight more in terms of pro players specs. But many pros suffer from elbow issues and take painkillers for them so I'm not sure they play with racquets that are very different from us.
Also recoil weight, another big factor for stability and comfort
I like your take on the subject. Good to let people know that it's not always better to have a heavy swingweight/racquet.
Low swing weight requires faster swing speed which requires better timing which requires better footwork and technique. Horses for courses with this one. I think keeping the swing weight high enough to get the right amount of assistance from your racquet is important - where 'right amount' is dependent on your style of technique, level of technique, and physical conditioning. Going lower without having the ability to swing faster while keeping good timing won't help. But I guess it all comes back to "match your racquet to your technique / style".
Very good points, John! Match your racquet with your technique/style is everything.
Not necessarily, there is another source of power and that is the stiffness of the frame. A lot of modern frames like the Pure Drive use stiffness to generate more power.
I heard this is the main reason why players these days are injuring their elbows. This what not happening that often at the Sampras era. I think Sampras said something that kids should start with a wooden racket to properly learn out to swing (sorry cannot find the exact quote). I used to be Pete's big fan :-)
“I’m where I am because I grew up with wooden rackets. I think children should play with wooden rackets up to the age of fourteen. It’s the only way to learn how to control your shots. The graphite, the power, all this comes later ”.
It's not the rackets, but the monofilament strings that cause injuries.
(you forgot Sampras played with natural gut)
@@seachangeseachange Actually it's the "combination" of the two. Poly strung at high tension in a stiff racquet is guaranteed to be an arm killer. In the opposite direction, nylon strung at very low tension in a very flexible racquet will also be an arm killer but in a slower manner. So, you just need to find the right combo for your arm.
I think it‘s the question of time when Alcarazz , Fritz ect. will get arm issues in the next years… Last year Tsitsipas had an arm surgery aswell although his racket specs are ok: 337 g strung ( silicone in the handle), 32,7 balance and 340 SW. I think it was the strings ( stiff Luxilon 4g full bed) now he plays with a hybrid ( gut/4g)
@@a2casius No, it is essentially the strings, see what happened to Tsitsipas for instance ; pro players today don't use anymore very stiff racquets.
Most modern racquets are also made to be easy to hit with. And that makes sense for mass sales. But easiest ain't best. I say, find the lightest racquet you can and polarize the sh*t out of it so that the weight goes exactly where it's needed and not where it feels "comfy." The irony, of course, is that If you know how, the frame ends up easier to swing at 335 kg/cm than any stock 325.
Yes I agree. The important word here is "polarisation" and the effective Recoil Weight. The clue is in the name. The higher the recoil weight, the more effective the racquet in transferring the energy back into ball without exerting excessive pressure on your arm.
Great history lesson and insight!
Thanks Carl! I appreciate the comment.
I notice you're using the rtp absorber on the technifibre racquet that supposedly takes away harsh vibrations. How's it work for you so far?
I don’t notice much of a difference between dampenes tbh - I just pick what’s in the bag at the moment
Interesting stuff 👍🏻
I still play with 3:49. No arm issue but maybe its time to update
I’m a traditional player. I’m currently using Wilson pro staff 6.1 95 v13 strung weight in the low 350s, I have been using these kind of specs for over 20 years but I’m now 40 years old and my game slowly declining. So would you say I should go down in weight and get a bigger head size to stay more competitive?
Yeah, I think it's worth considering. And this comes from a guy who loves the 6.1 95! It's just a lot of work.
It has been said that if Sampras had used a better racquet and had not been so conservative he would have won over 20 majors.
I’ve been using Bridgestone X-blades recently and I’ve just realised that the Technifibre Tflight RS is Extremely similar to the BS RS 300 (same grommets and beam). I’m wondering if they have the same mould or came out of the same factory?
Anyone have any info? Cheers Kings
If you do not know how to do the "whippier" forehand then it is hard to understand it. All it is is a very relaxed wrist that allows much of the throat and head to keep going back as the hand holding the racquet is going forward. Then it rebounds like a pendulum or a bull whip. The increased momentum accelerates the racquet and turns the hand over without using your forearm muscles like Agassi did - it is automatic. It definitely should be taught at tennis academies. Not sure if the average high school kid can achieve good results with it. It takes no strength but requires very good timing. If the racquet is not still moving back when you rotate forward you will not get much of a whip and your shot will not be what you expected. Of course all the ATP players have remarkable timing and can do this very well. Also it makes sense for them to hit a zillion balls. But when you converted from a closed stance forehand with a continental grip to a semi western and open stance rotate and use the wrist to get more low to high and more spin you would have noticed a significant improvement. When you convert from that forehand to a relaxed wrist ATP forehand you will notice more racquet speed with the same expenditure of energy.
I feel like racket tech has peaked and manufacturers just add slight differences and label them as new and improved
Exactly my thoughts. I feel the only area left to improve is comfort in stiff racquets such as Pure Drive and Pro Staff. The spin, control and feel are combined well in other racquets such as Extreme Tour, Speed MP. It's only the stiffer ones that still have room for improvement !
Wheres the TN intro music?
I have a 1993 Head Radical Tour Bumblebee with following strung specs measured by Ring Roll: 340 g, 32,8 cm balance and 335 SW. Perfect racket ( stable, enough plow-through) no need for more weight. Are these specs „Next-Gen“ specs? @tennisnerd
690 OS Version😉
Expcept of too big headsize and too low stiffnes.
I have simular frame Head ProTour Lite Customized to simular values: 337 32.5 340SW. Plays very nice with polly but modern frames are stiffer and more aerodynamical imo
new Federer pro is perfection
My swing weight is 650
The maximum swingweight is 400 and if yours is 650 than you wouldn't get much time to react to the ball at all on the court whether you're at baseline or at the net.
He forgot to mention that he is God.
😏😏😏😏😏
"Alcaraz grip size 4" mean 4 inches or L4 ? Because big part of game and racquet evolution arenalso lower grip sizes.
I would assume it’s grip #4, aka 4 1/2 inches.
@@Javi_C I think the same And it can be considered as a big grip for todays whippy game
Nadal's grip size is L2 beside
Yeah, meant L4 - just mentioned it becuase it's a large grip for most players today.
@@Tennisnerd Definietelly big grip for modern game I was looking at some pictures to analize this and he is closer to classic "one finger" rule just like Novak or Stan
The pure drive team is terrible terrible. It don’t offer pin point control as ps85 which can point to a needle
They're two different racquets altogether. You're comparing apples and elephants. And no modern racquet has the pin point control of the PS85. The Pro Staff 97, with a bit of silicone in the handle, comes close, though.
Bro Tennis Spin just made a video on this too. Y’all copying each other
I don't watch other racquet youtubers, but coincidences might happen. The tennis world is small
Rackets didn’t evolve. Pros still play 20yr old frames. Biggest noobs must works in the development department
Better watch the video...
Many pros use modern frames and there are plenty of smart people in development departments.
He's talking about retail frames, not prostocks 🤦🏻♂️
@@neertw has nothing to do with the fact that the racket engineers doing a bad job when pros using 10+ yr old frames. If a formula 1 team uses the motor from the last year, they will end up last place. Good comparison?
@@aca2077 no not really
i am stubborn enough to "live or die" with my old school six.one 95 332 gr 18x20. Recently i received the ncode 90, 340 gr and now it's an exchange between the two in my matches. In Football there is a famous moto : "Against Modern Football" , i guess we can also follow this and be "Against Modern Tennis" : )
Great frames! Still enjoy them