Same for me. Any difference could be just a different performance. So much marketing of guitar products is "The Emperors new clothes" or, "What do you mean you don't hear that subtle difference? I would upgrade to bone or brass pins based on durability.
I got a set of brass pins about 10 yrs ago for an old 70's epiphone acoustic that was never my favorite, but to my surprise they really brought that guitar to life...
To my ears, the rosewood sounded the best. The bone was surprisingly muddy, while the brass was WAY too bright . . . I have two guitars with TUSQ pins and one with ebony pins. As an experiment, I replaced the ebony with a set of TUSQ and the difference in tone was very noticeable; and not to the better. My low end was overpowered by the brightness of the high end. I put the ebony pins back on and literally restored the original tone.
It is not significant and the tone depends on your guitar pick, where you play on hole, your mood, humidity, and temperature. There are so many other things to be concerned about.
I'm a bit embarrased to say I've been doing luthier work for decades but never gave this a second thought. I always attributed the pin material to the fashion sense of my customer but I do hear a difference in this demonstration. See, your never too old to learn something.
I agree with some of these comments that the bridge and nut will make a much bigger difference in sound. The contribution of the posts is only in securing the string like a screw or nail on wood. Would you argue brass vs. Stainless nails?
through my speakers, the brass pins seemed the most resonant. i've always gone in for bone saddles (and nuts) on my acoustic, but i guess i never even never considered bone pins.. i've always been suspicious of wood pins for some undefinable reason but they sounded ok too
The rosewood, for my ears, have a more even sound and would be my choice when changing out pins. Second choice would be the bone, third would be the brass. I suspect a lot of viewers would like the brass for those crisp, "silver dollar" ringing highs. This is a great experiment, and proves that all ears are different, and that one mans meat etc. Nice one.
For my experience, I'd say it does. Swapped the plastic pins to bone in a Samick with a laminate top. I could feel the top resonating more with bone than plastic, which made it sound way better to my ears.
When you were using a pick it did seem to sound better with the bone pins,... but it seemed like your playing changed and you were digging in a bit more, so honestly I couldn't make a judgement. It all sounded pretty damned good to me.
@@DetroitWrecker666 When Bradley was pickin with the bone, the sound was transfered through the bone back into the bridge & was "pickier" like "She talks to Angels" 🐸 👍
@@gearmeister Yeah, I believe it on an acoustic guitar, everything matters. I don't put much thought into ANY sound comparison of ANY kind when coming from RUclips. Especially with something like an acoustic guitar. It probably sounds a lot different in the room.
The bridge pins that weren't plastic may have sounded a bit brighter but what I found that really makes a BIG difference is changing the nut, saddle & bridge pins to bone as I did recently with a Yamaha acoustic. That changed it from a cheap sounding guitar to one truly worthy of even using a gigable guitar.
Interesting - I've been doing the same thing with a cheap Yamaha acoustic. I replaced the plastic nut and plastic bridge saddle with bone. This was the first time I'd ever fashioned a nut or saddle. The tone and volume change were stunning. I'm now sitting on replacement tuners and ebony (unslotted) bridge pins. I plan to slot the bridge to accommodate the unslotted pins. I expect the new tuners and slotted bridge will incrementally improve the sound, but I doubt anything will be as dramatic as the bone nut and saddle.
Great idea for a video, Brad! I also always just assumed the same as you that the harder the better transfer of vibration, but listening back to the comparison clips, I have to admit that I can't tell if the difference I hear is just me making it up in my head or if it's real. So, if pins do indeed make a difference then it must be a rather small one.
Agree! I think the nut and saddle need to be bone NOT plastic - I swapped ALL my steel strings that had plastic to bone years ago and never looked back. The difference WAS dramatic!
I'm a luthier and have just done this exercise for a customer who had an older custom instrument and was wanting more brightness. I was sceptical myself but I can resoundingly conclude that brass pins and that extra bit of mass does enhance the brightness of the strings. Sustain is marginally better but the tone is audibly richer - just my experience.
Well, a long time ago I switched my plastic pins for brass ones just because someone told they were "so much better". I tried my hardest to hear the improvement, but could not. I mean, I really wanted them to work, but I could not hear it... So I put the old ones back in. And here I am playing the old thing with the pins it came with in -68, and they work just fine. Yellowed and bent like old hippo's theeth, but that's ok...
It appears to be a question of one's ear, and taste...it's very subjective, yes 🤔 As a player of 60 years, and a builder/repair/restore person 20 plus years, I'd say definitely not plastic! Try titanium pins..lol...whatever helps create the sound the owner desires is best!
@@gavinw5469 Physiological? you meant to say *psychological* didn't you, champ? "Guitarists are idiots when it comes to science." *Alexa, play "Ironic" by Alanis Morrissette. "Your brain is justifying the money you just burned" This is very true with some guitar players. You know what though? The opposite is true as well. Broke ass amateur guitar players will swear that they can get a great tone from a 15 Watt Gorilla amp, Squier Bullet, and a Boss DS-1. They'll SWEAR to themselves that it sounds just as good as a vintage Marshall Plexi, Klon, and a '59 Les Paul. NOPE! It doesn't! Never will! "B-b-but Tone is in the fingers man!!" Yup! A lot of it is!! ..but if things like bridge pins didn't matter, then neither would strings, wood type, nut/saddle material, body size/shape, pick thickness, etc. By your logic, you wouldn't mind if I strung up your acoustic with 9 gauge nickel strings and gave you a 1.5 mm Jazz III pick to play with. What's the difference? It's just *psychological, right? :) If you change _anything_ on an acoustic guitar, it *will* affect the tone. It's basic Newtonian physics. Maybe it won't change the tone enough to 'justify' the money spent. ...or maybe your ears are just too trash to hear the difference. As the OP said: "It's all subjective." If you had any reading comprehension skills, you would have realized that the word "subjective" made all of your opinionated ranting 100% unnecessary.
@@gavinw5469 They don't? Ok.. Explain why. ("I can't hear a difference" is not an acceptable answer.) Use your scientific knowledge to explain to us why a bone saddle will change the tone, but not a bone bridge pin. Drop some knowledge about energy transfer and acoustic resonance. Please explain to Scott and I how after almost a century of combined experience building and repairing guitars professionally, we still haven't figured out how bridge pins work. Please explain how I'm so psychologically flawed that my ears will literally have auditory hallucinations - to save me from the trauma of accepting the fact that I wasted $10 on some bridge pins. Do you have any idea how many THOUSANDS of dollars I've wasted on guitar gadgets over the years? We _all_ have and we _all_ admit it. ...yet we're crying ourselves to sleep over a bridge pin purchase? THAT is what is keeping us up at night? Lmfao You're special, Gavin.
@@clicheguevara5282 thanks I really needed that last part. Self confidence is at an all time low, but I guess you probably wouldn't care anyway. I have had a tough day. I was looking to vent. Don't take what I said personal. It's not about you or anyone else, it's about me. I apologize. I should have never commented. Nobody agrees with me anyway.
Definite difference. The rosewood are more balanced across the range and the most open sounding. The bone ones are close but slightly more subdued. The brass is considerably thinner sounding and not as loud. I would have liked to have heard the plastic ones also.
The biggest change I ever noticed is when I chucked the slotted pins for solid, and grooved the slot to allow the string to seat correctly against the bridge plate. Huge difference ! Better projection, sustain and volume. As a bonus, if done right, you can pull out one pin and replace it with another of different material without loosening the strings.
I swapped my plastic pins out for bone on my D28 shortly after I got it, mainly for durability and to protect the bridge plate from deforming plastic pins. There was definitely a glassier tone to the guitar. I don't know if I preferred it at first, necessarily, but at 12 years old it sounds pretty good to me now.
Goldylocks test... . Changed the pins on my acoustics after watching this.I got different results, not all favorable. One has bone, all positive. The second has Rosewood an a good change on 12 string close to neutral, the third got brass and is over the top bright and honky, unnecessary on what is likely the loudest guitar I have heard. Must be changed... to bone. Bone gets my vote based on my sample of three Yamaha guitar s LL16 -ARE 12 string, LL16-D, AC5R ACE. The similarities of construction, materials, and time of manufacture make them good subjects for this non destructive test. Great video.
3:51 Rosewood 4:23 Brass 4:56 Bone I think these timecodes are where you hear the biggest difference on the lighter strings. I can absolutely tell the difference between the Brass and the other 2. Rosewood is much warmer, Brass is very tinny, and bone is right in the middle it seems. I like each for different reasons. I wonder how creative one could get my mixing the different pins on certain strings. I think I prefer the Rosewoods warmth overall though. Nice video, thanks!
Yes, it makes a difference. I have an Larrivee L-03 that I have been playing for 20 years with the stock plastic pins. I decided to order some bone pins from Larrivee and installed them. They fit perfectly and I couldn’t believe what difference they made. More overall volume, crisp sweet highs and a bit more punch in the lows and mids.
I will delete my comment. Feel free to delete your reply to my comment. I was having a tough day today and was just trying to vent. I apologize sincerely.
I listened with my eyes closed. I noticed no difference at all. (The reason I listen with my eyes closed, goes back to something I read, Herb Alpert said he & the late great Sam Cooke, were listening to a Jamaican singer, audition. Alpert said he was a handsome guy, he thought he sounded good. Cooke was not so impressed. He told Herb to turn his back, close his eyes & listen. Alpert said when he did that, the singer didn't sound as good as thought. I've always done that, since I read that article, maybe 30 yrs ago. Believe it or not the first yrs of American idol, we didn't watch the 1st yr [My late wife LOVED the show, that's why we watched.] I picked the top 3 each of those 4 yrs, we watched, during auditions! She was amazed, but I told her the secret.) Any way my vote is there is no difference. But it seemed to me once the string hits the saddle, that's where the sound is transferred, so the pins shouldn't make a difference. It would be cool to have the sound waves measured, then we'd know "scientifically."
Couldn't really tell much difference over my earbuds but that's just my ears,etc. The only difference from my experience anyway, is that plastic pins can deform over time and not consistently lock the string in, Rosewood and ebony mostly keep their shape , brass and bone are stable ..whether that can effect tone significantly ...maybe if the pins are worn and the string is not solidly anchored but I doubt my ears could detect much difference in any case. Nice playing and sweet tone from that vintage Martin. Cheers!
People always change pickups, and nut and tuners and leave stock pot metal saddles and trems on their guitars....I've found that saddles have a HUGE effect on the tone of your instrument...If your strat is thin sounding get brass/or steel block saddles...If you want more snap bent steel is the way to go....The nut only changes the tone when you play open notes, because when fretting its got the fret behind it making the note.
I'm a big believer in this. I changed the pins on a Washburn of mine and the difference was amazing. It opened the sound of guitar right up! Louder, better projection and sustain. After that I went to a bone nut and saddle, which was incrementally better, but the ebony pins made the biggest difference.
After going back and forth between pins on my headphones, whether my brain is creating a difference because I expect one or not, I agree the bone were best.
@@ProjectBlackweather I kinda agree. I mean I sold my expensive G&L after I built my own partscaster from good used parts, the only thing I bought new was the most important piece - the neck. If the guitar is playable then you'll get a good sound if you are a decent musician. To me the neck and stable tuners are what matters. The rest is somewhat aesthetic and just makes the guitar 'look' a way in which I think I want to pick it up (which is also important).
My 68 Yamaha fg180 Nippon Gaki has a brass nut and brass pins. My uncle changed them in the late 80s. It sounds killer with a set of Martin Bluegrass strings. I upgraded my Epiphones to bone nut,saddle and pins...always wanted to try rosewood though. 😎🤘🎸🇺🇸
They all sound good. very very close. You have proven to me that ...with a 56 Martin D21 ... you can't go wrong no matter what you're using. Great playing as usual.
Another great video Brad! It is almost impossible to pick the best sounding pins. The problem is…..each person’s ears are different. Sure the overall sound is similar with same strings, same guitar to each person. My hearing has tinnitus or ring in the ear so mine is not the same as someone without. I think all things bone! Bone nuts, saddles, pins all give the guitar a certain tone, the kind I like. There is a stark difference between plastic and harder materials, that’s science. I like brass on acoustic-electric guitars. The brass gives a more bitting sound I like. That’s just me. Since nylon strings mounted without pins, it would help them to be brighter. Oh well! Years ago in Missouri, I made some pins out of hickory, I was broke and wanted better pins so I hand made the pins. After several attempts, I made a set that were expectable. They made the guitar sound duller. I was disappointed but learned a good lesson! The harder the better! To me bone rings the best! Love from NW Colorado. Thanxz
Well Brad, great study. I haven't thought of that since the early 70s when the bass player of our band told me to always use top of the line pins to get the best sound. To be honest, I never really found a difference but my hearing has always been a little wacked.
3 года назад+1
I put brass on a cheap acoustic that was OK, but lacked clarity. It brightened it up nicely and improved the tone.
A very straight forward demo and precise as humanly possible. Tone is quite similar to color in that we all see a different ewe this also exists in tone quality differences. So in controlling the constants pick, strings, microphone/distance amplification settings and the same song selection and style of playing allowed me to experience the tone difference in these guitar pins. Re: Curtis Lee says it best "The rosewood sounds warm, the brass sound bright, and the bone sound full." So 2 thumbs up on your demo I greatly appreciate it Sound quality of guitars for me is a journey in learning the guitar thanks for your time
Subtle changes happen that you can compensate for. More volume can translate to lighter picking. I noticed brass and rosewood were similar but as soon as it was bone, instantly a flattened mid range. The saddle and nut are the next thing to test but those will have a more drastic effect in my opinion.
You can absolutely hear the difference on anything that is an accurate enough playback system. all other things consistent the rosewood is darker, the brass is brighter and the bone is a fairly balanced and clear middle ground. In a full on mix the difference would not be quite as noticeable to 99% of humanity because they are listening on airpods, phone speakers, tv speakers etc.
Nifty ! Pretty sure I could tell a slight difference, at least between the brass one & other two anyway. I tend to prefer mellow over bright but to each his own. I haven't used ANY pegs whatsoever for well over a decade now. I use a flat bone blank with holes just big enough for the strings to feed thru. The tension alone clamps it flat & solidly against the back of the bridge/top. Works like a champ. Noticed quite a positive difference, on my 3 acoustics anyway. Granted a string change isn't as fast but I'll never go back. The other rather important thing for virtually ANY acoustic IMO is to simply have a slightly angled cut at/in the peg holes themselves, just like 1/4 - 1/3 of the way to the saddle at each hole, which slightly increases the strings break angle. I say this bc most bridges I've seen are practically all the same tradition dimensions. I was always a fan of that pegless bridge design on Ovations TBH. So, obviously slots instead of holes would make it easier to change stings, since you wouldn't have to feed them thru in reverse. I never tried it bc holes work fine & I'm well used to the procedure. But I'm pretty sure slots wouldn't affect the blank's solidness too much & still allow the ball ends to clamp the blank sufficiently, in which case just a piece of ANY temporary tape could keep the strings from sliding out of the bone until the strings are tensioned, if you know what I mean. Been wanting to try it for a while, perhaps I'll make a vid of it soon. Anyway, I only mention all of this because just recently I seen a vid where a guy is $elling a brass rod("thE tone bar ™" I think it was)🤪, that just goes thru the ball ends for a better top "connection". I do suppose he's at least partially there with that though.
Oddly, perhaps, the pins I liked the least were the bone pins. They seem to drop a lot of the high frequency resonance that I associate with my Martins. None sound bad, but literally, that is the set that I noted the most drop in a frequency range. But I'm getting pretty old, so perhaps I seek the higher frequencies? Anyway, you asked, I opined, and thanks for the demonstration.
The bridge transfers vibrations to the top though the saddle. Obviously, you don't want to dampen the vibrations with rubber or something soft like plastic. But, I am not sold on there being much of a difference between anything that is hard - go for the one that you like the look of. I use ebony or bone and find them both equally acceptable. For the best bang-for-the-buck upgrade, changing out things the strings actually vibrate off of is where to start --> This is the nut, saddle, pick (material and thickness) and your pick attack. Those are the places where you can change the sound of your instrument outside of different strings or a different instrument.
I bought a Martin 000-18MC (Martin Carthy) which comes with three rosewood pins on the bass side and three brass ones on the treble. He plays in a sort of C based open tuning -- CGCDGA -- so especially those two top strings (probably really both B gauge strings) can really use the treble boost.
Makes sense there would be a difference because the density and dimensions will alter the resonant frequencies of the pins and by extension the sound board they’re sitting in. Wood sounds warm, brass rings out and bone sounds deeper due to overall mass / dimensions presumably. I’d be interested to see if we can make pins to selectively tailor for certain sounds, as guitar acoustics aren’t actually that well understood to my knowledge. I mean scientifically, as opposed to practically. Maybe I’m totally wrong of course, I just remember reading somewhere that most of what is known about guitar design has been learned through iteration as opposed to scientific understanding. Interesting stuff either way!
A given guitar is always going to be what it is, but others factors can and will slightly tweak the sound. For me, and in this order it’s: Strings Saddle Pins Nice demo Brad.
From a physics perspective I think the extra mass of the brass pins may affect the tone a bit as vibrating the extra mass would use energy otherwise transferred to the sound board, but this is just an academic observation. I don't know enough about the specific motion dynamics of the sound board and bridge system, but I think it would be worthwhile to use a sensitive scale and measure the mass of the pin sets in each material. I suspect the brass pins will be 2-3 times more than the others. I would predict that bone would be the next highest mass, but not sure whether plastic or rosewood would be the lightest. What the effect is on the subjective experience of the sound would probably require a more sensitive and better trained ear than mine.
I think you’re misinterpreting the physics regarding the propagation of sound waves through a medium. There is more to this propagation than mass or density; e.g. a brass or silver object will propagate sound waves more readily than a similarly shaped object made of lead or zinc. Material matters a great deal. Personally, I’d like to hear sets of pins made of glass, silver, gold, platinum, palladium…anything other than dead plastic, which does not propagate sound waves very readily, and in fact has the opposite deadening effect.
Great video! I never thought about this concept until now. I know everyone’s ear is differen, so here’s my personal take: From brightest to warmest, I would list them Brass, Rosewood, Bone. It’s a very subtle difference though. From Bone to Rosewood, then Rosewood to Brass, I could just barely hear any distinction. However, changing from Brass to Bone had the greatest difference in tone that I could hear, even if it was still a subtle change. Something to keep in mind is that when you start talking about performing and recording, you’re talking about playing for extended periods of time where you will eventually catch on to all those little nuances of every part of your instrument. To the listener it may not always make a difference, but remember that the first listener is the player! I prefer bright tones so I might go shopping for some new pins now. Thanks for sharing!
Great playing! Reminds me of my dad playing when I was a kid. Like you, he was a multi-instrumentalist. Drums, Guitar, and Piano....always had an instrument within reach.
brass = higher. bone = warm. rosewood = just cool, ive always liked wood pins hahah they just seem... i dont know more natural??? right now im rocking the liquid metal martin pins. theyre decent.
Haha that is hilarious! You spend that much on bridge pins? The difference is your brain justifying your money you wasted. Spend that on a setup or a bone nut or bridge. The bridge pins are just the break angle.
@@gavinw5469 I don't need to spend anything on a 'set up' I've been playing for 31 years. I'm fully capable of setting myself up (revealing your vast knowledge I see) and if you did literally 1 second of research you'd see ALOT!!! of newer/higher end Martin's CoMe WiTh LiQuId BrIdGe PiNs. And all guitars worth anything already Come with bone, tusq or some comparable material already installed. But hey that was a very good comment. You got me good you fucker.
@@benhaven7501 I am confused why it is a good comment lol. I don't know how I got you good either. I have done hundreds of hours of research. I personally think that bridge pins are kinda a gimmick.
Obviously your experience trumps my knowledge that comes from science when talking about tone. Seriously. That is not meant to be sarcastic. I personally feel that the bridge pins are the least important factor for tone. In my opinion, the tops stiffness to weight ratio and hand voicing the top are the most important factors for tone.
Billy Corgan, the singer and guitar player of the Smashing Pumpkins has a signature acoustic guitar and one of the aspects he wanted to change on the original prototype was to have brass pins. He explained that it makes the guitar sound brighter.
@@BockwinkleB I know, right?! I remember when he said that, he said something like "I've noticed that guitars with a white finish always sound better". I still can't believe that he said that. Also, when he was on Joe Rogan's podcast, he said that he saw someone shapeshifting right in front of him. I'm still a fan of his music, though (what he did in the 90's, not what he's doing now). I guess that you need to seperate the artist and his beliefs from his art.
@@BockwinkleB sun/tobacco burst sound warmer. Black and white sound sleek lol. I think a lot of tone stuff like this is just the impression you get looking at it. You never hear any of these minor differences on a recording. It matters to the musician cause it gives us mojo, but I don’t think a listener will ever know or care what bridge pins you got
I play 2 guitars with nut/saddle of bone and the saddle pins of steel, and 2nd guitar bone nut/saddle with B and E1st string bone and the rest of steel pins and I changed all the sound so drastically that to this day I'm forever in love with the sound, I also used bone and tusk pins never wood, if you play in open areas street and "campfire" you will get the most of metal because the highs are really strong and make for the loud noises in the background, but if you play indoors may be better idea to get bone or wood, to my prefference metal gives me the sound I want and for me in this demo metal it the nicest round sound In all the strings. Nice vid, thanks!!
I hate these kinds of tests - in a good way. I predicted there would be no difference and I was wrong. It is good to be willing to be wrong I am learning as an old(er) dude. Glad you did this, I need to get some bone pins for my Martin!
That was a tough one but with a set of Bose headphones on this is what I heard. 1. Rosewood: was even toned across the chords and had a mellow vibe and was my favorite of the three. 2. Brass: was not as loud and had a slight reverb effect, kind of reflective sounding. 3: Bone: sounded the loudest to me, through my headphones, with very good reflection. The big difference to me was volume and reflection, with the exception of the Brass pins which had that slight reverb sound. This is all subjective and could sound way different to many people who listen to it. It's funny how so many people will argue over " which is best".. The best is what you like and the differences are subtle. This was a very good video.
Holy %%$# you're a great player! I've watched your channel for years and this video really showed your guitar playing skills in a way I'd not seen before!
Classical guitar strings now have the nubs on ends on some brand strings which makes it a whole lot easier than lacing them as far as the sound I've never really noticed.
Shit this is perfect for me brad i hadn't thought of it. I need brass pins in my life i play a eko 12 string that's got a lush warm big body but my guitar doc put a 7 string bridge in there at my request, thats a normal 6 string setup but with 2 G's(high and low G) I LOVE IT and its a dream to write on but a hint of extra high clarity from them brass pins are quite evident to me in this vid and it will make my eko bit closer to my dream acoustic, massive thanks
I'm no tone snob or anything, but the pins ABSOLUTELY do change the tone. I tried several different ones for my vintage Gibson acoustic. I tried plastic, aluminum, brass, rosewood, etc. I settled on camel bone. Intuitively and logically, it _does_ make sense that changing the pins will change the tone. The silver coin comparison is perfect. ...but I was pretty shocked that there was a major difference between pins. ..at least on my guitar. I chose camel bone because it was waaaaaaay better than the others.
Hi,bone nut is a bit darker in sound.....for strats to me bone is a must, all my gutars have bone, homemade made biggest difference. thank you, you are a great source
I changed out the plastic pins on my Dean Exotica acoustic a few years back for an ebony set and I must say I like the ebony pins better.The guitar is noticeably louder and clearer not as dark and muffly sounding.
IMHO the rosewood pins sound warmer, but lack clarity. The brass pins enhance brilliance. The bone pins do a bit of both, though lack warmth compared to the rosewood pins. These variances were more noticeable when strumming than when picking. I play a Taylor 414-ceR that lacks top end brilliance, so I am, therefore, considering the brass pins as a replacement. For another guitar I would likely choose bone.
I just watched a video on making a slight Chanel in the bridge perhaps 1/8” towards the sound hole..to increase the angle as it drops down from the saddle towards the pins. There “definitely “ was a positive sound difference..with more of a tonal separation of each string…
I don't know if you ever read the Harmony Central acoustic guitars section some 10 to 15 years ago, but there once was a thread about the influence of bridge pins on sound that later was referred to as The Bridge Pins War 😀
I hear almost district differences between the three, what this experiment shows is that pins do have an affect. This might well help us customize an individual guitars sound (ever so slightly)...
I have a Martin D28CW with Adirondack Top. As pricey as it was (to me anyway) it came with the cheapest of string pins. I am slow to modify or try new things but I have to fight to be objective. While a matter of milligrams, I am always suspect of anything that adds weight to the bridge plate area. But I may try some bone pins sometime. In the back of my mind, I remember watching videos of professional violinists listening blind to modern violins played against an authentic Strad. Their guesses were all over the place and most picked modern instruments, explaining different reasons why they thought it was the original. In my years of working on old fiddles, I find it really hard to discern between the mojo and scientific fact. I'm not saying the pins don't affect tone or volume but they certainly might. I do know when I think I have some sort of added mojo to an instrument, I think I strive to play better, so if that works, then the end justified the means. Still, I will have to try the pin exchange someday.
Definitely a difference there. I think the choice would depend on the wood too. I have a mahogany top so probably brass would be the better choice if I wanted to add a bit of brightness to the sound.
3:23 - Rosewood, Strumming 3:54 - Brass, Strumming 4:26 - Bone, Strumming 5:09 - Rosewood, Finger Picking 6:07 - Brass, Finger Picking 6:42 - Bone, Finger Picking ... I can tell a clear difference. As other commenters have said: Rosewood is "warmer" or "calm," Brass more obvious with the treble (but it could be harsher,) but as for Bone? It's kind of on neutral ground between Rosewood and Brass. Don't expect a gigantic difference here. We're talking differences of how many spices in a recipe here; do you want it more calm with cinnamon and cloves, or do you want it more gingery? Or in the middle?
If you set it up right the pegs have zero influence on the strings. The ball should be seated into the underneath of the bridge and the strings angled forward on top of the saddle. The pegs are just a convenience for changing strings and play no role in the sound .
The three types are noticeably different and I expect that the best choice depends on the guitar. I'm leaning towards hardwood pins for mine, but I can see where brass would help tighten up a boomy guitar.
It's funny how everyone's ear and headphones/speakers are a bit different. My 2008 Guild DV-6 came with plastic pins and I upgraded them to bone. I loved the tone before, and still love it with the bone pins. Listening to this back to back comparison was pretty cool, but I almost thought the brass sounded the best during the strumming. It seemed to bring out the lower frequencies of the guitar. I may try those next time I do a string change. Thanks for this, Brad!
It's all in the ears ,rosewood is warm ,brass is brite and clear with lots of treble ,bone is well rounded,highs ,lows and mids . So after hearing you play , I would go with the bone .Hahaha . So I'm the end its up to the guy playing. Good to see ya playing again . Not that you have it up.Lol. Have a great weekend.🎸
I think bone slightly had a more balance tone, honestly though on this stuff I just upgrade from plastic to bone and call it a day. I am in the camp just upgrade from plastic. The Luxe pins I am very curious on, cause Martins video on them was an interesting experiment
My thinking from listening would be have the 3 lower pitch strings on wood pins and the 3 higher pitch strings on brass pins. This should give some more resonance at the low end and boost the treble frequencies at the high end.
The brass had the best projection,but as far as the rest,hardly a difference, maybe just a little better with bone,but remember these pins are only holding the strings against the bridge itself, and that's where the brass has the advantage I believe,wonder what a bridge made completely out of brass would sound like,it would probably be a pain to glue on,but how about a brass saddle vs a bone saddle shoot out Brad, thanks for the video.
One luthier I saw on YT suggested the heavier mass of brass bridge pins tend to inhibit the saddle from doing its job properly of transferring the string vibrations to the sound board. Ultimately THAT is where your sound comes from so anything that helps the string transfer energy to the soundboard will help. As for the different pin materials, the differences to me were only slight, although I have a set of brass pins I pulled out of my Maton as I didn't like the overalls feel and sound.
For that Guitar. The Rosewood has more tonality and warmth. Bone tends to brighten a bit more. Brass is similar to bone but seems warmer. I say go with what you like. AND keep in mind your materials of the entire guitar. If you had a Guitar that was more Bass-y. Then you could brighten it with a Bone Pin/Nut/Saddle type combo. Likewise if your guitar seems to bright, Rosewood or similar may help dampen that brightness back.
Rosewood sounded most natural for strumming. Bone sounded most natural for finger picking. Brass was just honky in all cases, imo. Thank you for the demonstration!
Much to my surprise, the brass gave kind of "suppressed" tone (I expected a bit of ringing). Rosewood gave that pleasant openness/transparency, but, to be honest, with this gorgeous guitar, all of them worked just fine...
Yes, they do make a difference, the rosewood has a nice warm tone with a mild resonating sustain, great for a nice flat equalization type of to e, the brass have an excellent bright and forward, a full and long resonating sustain, grst for a nice transcendental/melodic/mystical type of tone, the bone also a warm yet quick-release like sustain, great for ominous touches/grungy punches and outlaw sustenance, my good sir
I changed pins on a br140 from plastic to brass not because I wanted a different sound but because I broke the plastic trying to get it out. Brass was all my music store had and I needed them right then. The brass made the guitar sound brighter and louder. Never went back to plastic.
I think there’s more to it than just changing the pins. The string type and playing method are instrumental in creating the “right” tone, and then, the “right” tone will be different to everybodies ears. Personally I like bone pins, but that’s just because I use bone saddles and they seem to compliment each other. I also used to make my own wooden pins and I could definitely hear the difference between softer woods and harder, more dense woods.
I recently went down this rabbit hole when thinking about changing pegs and all the info I read said that brass pegs will help to make a dark sounding acoustic sound brighter and your video seems to bear this out but to my ears its not as big a difference as I thought. I went for bone in the end as the two other brass and tusk pegs I bought didnt fit my guitar, they were too big! So check the size before you buy.
I closed my eyes and and occasionally opened them to see different words on the screen. If I didn't open them I wouldn't have known anything changed.
I wasn't watching the screen either and they sounded the same 👻🥳🐬☮️
Same for me. Any difference could be just a different performance. So much marketing of guitar products is "The Emperors new clothes" or, "What do you mean you don't hear that subtle difference? I would upgrade to bone or brass pins based on durability.
@@1mdragas very good point I agree. Plastic pins suck in terms of durability.
Yeah it shouldn't really matter. The contact point is the bridge, not the pins, so there should be little energy transfer at the pins.
@@maudiojunky 100% agree. But it's the saddle that the strings contact, not the bridge ;).. Pins are just the anchors.
I got a set of brass pins about 10 yrs ago for an old 70's epiphone acoustic that was never my favorite, but to my surprise they really brought that guitar to life...
I have an Alvarez that benefitted from a set of Brass pins. It rang like a bell the first time I played it after the Brass pins were on it.
To my ears, the rosewood sounded the best. The bone was surprisingly muddy, while the brass was WAY too bright . . . I have two guitars with TUSQ pins and one with ebony pins. As an experiment, I replaced the ebony with a set of TUSQ and the difference in tone was very noticeable; and not to the better. My low end was overpowered by the brightness of the high end. I put the ebony pins back on and literally restored the original tone.
3:23 rosewood strumming
3:55 brass strumming
4:27 bone strumming
They all sound exactly the same to me.
It is not significant and the tone depends on your guitar pick, where you play on hole, your mood, humidity, and temperature. There are so many other things to be concerned about.
@@Augrills I agree
@@Augrills And me!
@@Augrills same
I'm a bit embarrased to say I've been doing luthier work for decades but never gave this a second thought. I always attributed the pin material to the fashion sense of my customer but I do hear a difference in this demonstration. See, your never too old to learn something.
Considering my teeth can crush a plastic bridge pin, I'd say bone and brass are going to transmit vibration more than absorb it!
Rosewood #1 ....BRASS #2....Bone #3.....My top three finishes!
@@RideAcrossTheRiverConsidering the string is only vibrating between the nut and the saddle, I’d say that’s a moot point.
@@G_Demolished Is that why you use plastic bridge and saddle, then?
I agree with some of these comments that the bridge and nut will make a much bigger difference in sound. The contribution of the posts is only in securing the string like a screw or nail on wood. Would you argue brass vs. Stainless nails?
through my speakers, the brass pins seemed the most resonant.
i've always gone in for bone saddles (and nuts) on my acoustic, but i guess i never even never considered bone pins..
i've always been suspicious of wood pins for some undefinable reason but they sounded ok too
I dig the user
Without reading the comments, The rosewood sounds warm, the brass sound bright, and the bone sound full . Bone sounds the best to me.
My words exactly
I agree👍🏼
It would be interesting to see if you had the same response if Brad hadn't labelled the pins but numbered them as he played....
@@halvach1998 That what I was thinking as well.
Ditto! 👍
The rosewood, for my ears, have a more even sound and would be my choice when changing out pins. Second choice would be the bone, third would be the brass. I suspect a lot of viewers would like the brass for those crisp, "silver dollar" ringing highs. This is a great experiment, and proves that all ears are different, and that one mans meat etc. Nice one.
Brass tone pins on a 12 string is incredible. I love rosewood but brass is made for a 12!
For my experience, I'd say it does. Swapped the plastic pins to bone in a Samick with a laminate top. I could feel the top resonating more with bone than plastic, which made it sound way better to my ears.
When you were using a pick it did seem to sound better with the bone pins,... but it seemed like your playing changed and you were digging in a bit more, so honestly I couldn't make a judgement.
It all sounded pretty damned good to me.
I wish I could play that good that's some serious picking Brad😎
I'd say, the weigth of the pins matter because its "mass" is coupled to the sound board. At least thats what makes sense to me. Thanks for the video
Rosewood: Hot and mellow tone. Brass: High ends, brilliance. Bone seems to be the best way between the two worlds to me.
Bone is my choice because the notes are much more detailed... brass is my 2nd favorite
How can something be hot and mellow? 😆
Y'all like the bone. LOL!
@@DetroitWrecker666 When Bradley was pickin with the bone, the sound was transfered through the bone back into the bridge & was "pickier" like "She talks to Angels" 🐸 👍
@@gearmeister Yeah, I believe it on an acoustic guitar, everything matters. I don't put much thought into ANY sound comparison of ANY kind when coming from RUclips. Especially with something like an acoustic guitar. It probably sounds a lot different in the room.
The bridge pins that weren't plastic may have sounded a bit brighter but what I found that really makes a BIG difference is changing the nut, saddle & bridge pins to bone as I did recently with a Yamaha acoustic. That changed it from a cheap sounding guitar to one truly worthy of even using a gigable guitar.
Interesting - I've been doing the same thing with a cheap Yamaha acoustic. I replaced the plastic nut and plastic bridge saddle with bone. This was the first time I'd ever fashioned a nut or saddle. The tone and volume change were stunning. I'm now sitting on replacement tuners and ebony (unslotted) bridge pins. I plan to slot the bridge to accommodate the unslotted pins. I expect the new tuners and slotted bridge will incrementally improve the sound, but I doubt anything will be as dramatic as the bone nut and saddle.
@@michaeldavis4969 I've seen that mod you're talking about with unslotted bridge pins, Very Cool.
I don't know but that Martin sounded beautiful all the way through. Nice playing!
All pins aside..... you are one of my favorite players.... Thanks for the happiness you bring Brad....
Great idea for a video, Brad! I also always just assumed the same as you that the harder the better transfer of vibration, but listening back to the comparison clips, I have to admit that I can't tell if the difference I hear is just me making it up in my head or if it's real. So, if pins do indeed make a difference then it must be a rather small one.
Agree! I think the nut and saddle need to be bone NOT plastic - I swapped ALL my steel strings that had plastic to bone years ago and never looked back. The difference WAS dramatic!
I'm a luthier and have just done this exercise for a customer who had an older custom instrument and was wanting more brightness. I was sceptical myself but I can resoundingly conclude that brass pins and that extra bit of mass does enhance the brightness of the strings. Sustain is marginally better but the tone is audibly richer - just my experience.
Well, a long time ago I switched my plastic pins for brass ones just because someone told they were "so much better". I tried my hardest to hear the improvement, but could not. I mean, I really wanted them to work, but I could not hear it... So I put the old ones back in. And here I am playing the old thing with the pins it came with in -68, and they work just fine. Yellowed and bent like old hippo's theeth, but that's ok...
It appears to be a question of one's ear, and taste...it's very subjective, yes 🤔 As a player of 60 years, and a builder/repair/restore person 20 plus years, I'd say definitely not plastic! Try titanium pins..lol...whatever helps create the sound the owner desires is best!
@@gavinw5469 , Ryan Guitars...
"whatever helps create the sound the owner desires is best!"
That's how I know you're a _real_ guitar tech.
@@gavinw5469 Physiological? you meant to say *psychological* didn't you, champ?
"Guitarists are idiots when it comes to science."
*Alexa, play "Ironic" by Alanis Morrissette.
"Your brain is justifying the money you just burned" This is very true with some guitar players. You know what though? The opposite is true as well. Broke ass amateur guitar players will swear that they can get a great tone from a 15 Watt Gorilla amp, Squier Bullet, and a Boss DS-1. They'll SWEAR to themselves that it sounds just as good as a vintage Marshall Plexi, Klon, and a '59 Les Paul. NOPE! It doesn't! Never will!
"B-b-but Tone is in the fingers man!!" Yup! A lot of it is!! ..but if things like bridge pins didn't matter, then neither would strings, wood type, nut/saddle material, body size/shape, pick thickness, etc. By your logic, you wouldn't mind if I strung up your acoustic with 9 gauge nickel strings and gave you a 1.5 mm Jazz III pick to play with. What's the difference? It's just *psychological, right? :)
If you change _anything_ on an acoustic guitar, it *will* affect the tone. It's basic Newtonian physics. Maybe it won't change the tone enough to 'justify' the money spent. ...or maybe your ears are just too trash to hear the difference. As the OP said: "It's all subjective." If you had any reading comprehension skills, you would have realized that the word "subjective" made all of your opinionated ranting 100% unnecessary.
@@gavinw5469 They don't? Ok.. Explain why. ("I can't hear a difference" is not an acceptable answer.) Use your scientific knowledge to explain to us why a bone saddle will change the tone, but not a bone bridge pin. Drop some knowledge about energy transfer and acoustic resonance.
Please explain to Scott and I how after almost a century of combined experience building and repairing guitars professionally, we still haven't figured out how bridge pins work. Please explain how I'm so psychologically flawed that my ears will literally have auditory hallucinations - to save me from the trauma of accepting the fact that I wasted $10 on some bridge pins. Do you have any idea how many THOUSANDS of dollars I've wasted on guitar gadgets over the years? We _all_ have and we _all_ admit it.
...yet we're crying ourselves to sleep over a bridge pin purchase? THAT is what is keeping us up at night? Lmfao
You're special, Gavin.
@@clicheguevara5282 thanks I really needed that last part. Self confidence is at an all time low, but I guess you probably wouldn't care anyway. I have had a tough day. I was looking to vent. Don't take what I said personal. It's not about you or anyone else, it's about me. I apologize. I should have never commented. Nobody agrees with me anyway.
Definite difference. The rosewood are more balanced across the range and the most open sounding. The bone ones are close but slightly more subdued. The brass is considerably thinner sounding and not as loud. I would have liked to have heard the plastic ones also.
The biggest change I ever noticed is when I chucked the slotted pins for solid, and grooved the slot to allow the string to seat correctly against the bridge plate. Huge difference ! Better projection, sustain and volume. As a bonus, if done right, you can pull out one pin and replace it with another of different material without loosening the strings.
They all have a unique tone!! I liked brass the best. I think it won't make a difference if you use piezo, undersaddle, or soundhole pickups though.
I swapped my plastic pins out for bone on my D28 shortly after I got it, mainly for durability and to protect the bridge plate from deforming plastic pins. There was definitely a glassier tone to the guitar. I don't know if I preferred it at first, necessarily, but at 12 years old it sounds pretty good to me now.
My favorite Simon and Garfunkel tune! Kathy’s song… what a beautiful progression. Well done! I also really like the Rosewood pins.
Damn your beard grew back quick! Been eating Rocky Mountain oysters?
Brass seem nice and spanky to me.
Jeez bud, you could make ball point pens (pun intended) sound good! To me personally, the bone pins sounded the best.
Goldylocks test... . Changed the pins on my acoustics after watching this.I got different results, not all favorable. One has bone, all positive. The second has Rosewood an a good change on 12 string close to neutral, the third got brass and is over the top bright and honky, unnecessary on what is likely the loudest guitar I have heard. Must be changed... to bone. Bone gets my vote based on my sample of three Yamaha guitar s LL16 -ARE 12 string, LL16-D, AC5R ACE. The similarities of construction, materials, and time of manufacture make them good subjects for this non destructive test. Great video.
The biggest difference is picking position in-between the sound hole and bridge is where you'll notice the difference in tone.
3:51 Rosewood
4:23 Brass
4:56 Bone
I think these timecodes are where you hear the biggest difference on the lighter strings. I can absolutely tell the difference between the Brass and the other 2. Rosewood is much warmer, Brass is very tinny, and bone is right in the middle it seems. I like each for different reasons. I wonder how creative one could get my mixing the different pins on certain strings. I think I prefer the Rosewoods warmth overall though. Nice video, thanks!
Yes, it makes a difference. I have an Larrivee L-03 that I have been playing for 20 years with the stock plastic pins. I decided to order some bone pins from Larrivee and installed them. They fit perfectly and I couldn’t believe what difference they made. More overall volume, crisp sweet highs and a bit more punch in the lows and mids.
@@gavinw5469 Thanks for your opinion. But, I could even hear the difference between the pins on Brads guitar in this youtube video.
I will delete my comment. Feel free to delete your reply to my comment. I was having a tough day today and was just trying to vent. I apologize sincerely.
@@gavinw5469 Don't worry about man. Vent away!
@@MrJarred78 thanks I needed that. I appreciate you saying that.
I listened with my eyes closed. I noticed no difference at all. (The reason I listen with my eyes closed, goes back to something I read, Herb Alpert said he & the late great Sam Cooke, were listening to a Jamaican singer, audition. Alpert said he was a handsome guy, he thought he sounded good. Cooke was not so impressed. He told Herb to turn his back, close his eyes & listen. Alpert said when he did that, the singer didn't sound as good as thought. I've always done that, since I read that article, maybe 30 yrs ago. Believe it or not the first yrs of American idol, we didn't watch the 1st yr [My late wife LOVED the show, that's why we watched.] I picked the top 3 each of those 4 yrs, we watched, during auditions! She was amazed, but I told her the secret.) Any way my vote is there is no difference. But it seemed to me once the string hits the saddle, that's where the sound is transferred, so the pins shouldn't make a difference. It would be cool to have the sound waves measured, then we'd know "scientifically."
Couldn't really tell much difference over my earbuds but that's just my ears,etc. The only difference from my experience anyway, is that plastic pins can deform over time and not consistently lock the string in, Rosewood and ebony mostly keep their shape , brass and bone are stable ..whether that can effect tone significantly ...maybe if the pins are worn and the string is not solidly anchored but I doubt my ears could detect much difference in any case. Nice playing and sweet tone from that vintage Martin. Cheers!
People always change pickups, and nut and tuners and leave stock pot metal saddles and trems on their guitars....I've found that saddles have a HUGE effect on the tone of your instrument...If your strat is thin sounding get brass/or steel block saddles...If you want more snap bent steel is the way to go....The nut only changes the tone when you play open notes, because when fretting its got the fret behind it making the note.
I'm a big believer in this. I changed the pins on a Washburn of mine and the difference was amazing. It opened the sound of guitar right up! Louder, better projection and sustain. After that I went to a bone nut and saddle, which was incrementally better, but the ebony pins made the biggest difference.
It's all such a subtle difference. I probably prefer the Bone overall.
After going back and forth between pins on my headphones, whether my brain is creating a difference because I expect one or not, I agree the bone were best.
@@ProjectBlackweather I kinda agree. I mean I sold my expensive G&L after I built my own partscaster from good used parts, the only thing I bought new was the most important piece - the neck.
If the guitar is playable then you'll get a good sound if you are a decent musician.
To me the neck and stable tuners are what matters.
The rest is somewhat aesthetic and just makes the guitar 'look' a way in which I think I want to pick it up (which is also important).
My 68 Yamaha fg180 Nippon Gaki has a brass nut and brass pins. My uncle changed them in the late 80s. It sounds killer with a set of Martin Bluegrass strings. I upgraded my Epiphones to bone nut,saddle and pins...always wanted to try rosewood though. 😎🤘🎸🇺🇸
They all sound good. very very close. You have proven to me that ...with a 56 Martin D21 ... you can't go wrong no matter what you're using. Great playing as usual.
Another great video Brad! It is almost impossible to pick the best sounding pins. The problem is…..each person’s ears are different. Sure the overall sound is similar with same strings, same guitar to each person. My hearing has tinnitus or ring in the ear so mine is not the same as someone without. I think all things bone! Bone nuts, saddles, pins all give the guitar a certain tone, the kind I like. There is a stark difference between plastic and harder materials, that’s science. I like brass on acoustic-electric guitars. The brass gives a more bitting sound I like. That’s just me. Since nylon strings mounted without pins, it would help them to be brighter. Oh well! Years ago in Missouri, I made some pins out of hickory, I was broke and wanted better pins so I hand made the pins. After several attempts, I made a set that were expectable. They made the guitar sound duller. I was disappointed but learned a good lesson! The harder the better! To me bone rings the best! Love from NW Colorado. Thanxz
Great comparison. Just what I needed for my new project acoustic guitar(gift for my neice).
Well Brad, great study. I haven't thought of that since the early 70s when the bass player of our band told me to always use top of the line pins to get the best sound. To be honest, I never really found a difference but my hearing has always been a little wacked.
I put brass on a cheap acoustic that was OK, but lacked clarity. It brightened it up nicely and improved the tone.
A very straight forward demo and precise as humanly possible. Tone is quite similar to color in that we all see a different ewe this also exists in tone quality differences. So in controlling the constants pick, strings, microphone/distance amplification settings and the same song selection and style of playing allowed me to experience the tone difference in these guitar pins. Re: Curtis Lee says it best "The rosewood sounds warm, the brass sound bright, and the bone sound full." So 2 thumbs up on your demo I greatly appreciate it Sound quality of guitars for me is a journey in learning the guitar thanks for your time
Subtle changes happen that you can compensate for. More volume can translate to lighter picking. I noticed brass and rosewood were similar but as soon as it was bone, instantly a flattened mid range. The saddle and nut are the next thing to test but those will have a more drastic effect in my opinion.
Agreed.
@@TheGuitologist If you're gonna pick one type of bridge pin only, what would it be?
You can absolutely hear the difference on anything that is an accurate enough playback system.
all other things consistent the rosewood is darker, the brass is brighter and the bone is a fairly balanced and clear middle ground. In a full on mix the difference would not be quite as noticeable to 99% of humanity because they are listening on airpods, phone speakers, tv speakers etc.
Nifty ! Pretty sure I could tell a slight difference, at least between the brass one & other two anyway. I tend to prefer mellow over bright but to each his own. I haven't used ANY pegs whatsoever for well over a decade now. I use a flat bone blank with holes just big enough for the strings to feed thru. The tension alone clamps it flat & solidly against the back of the bridge/top. Works like a champ. Noticed quite a positive difference, on my 3 acoustics anyway. Granted a string change isn't as fast but I'll never go back. The other rather important thing for virtually ANY acoustic IMO is to simply have a slightly angled cut at/in the peg holes themselves, just like 1/4 - 1/3 of the way to the saddle at each hole, which slightly increases the strings break angle. I say this bc most bridges I've seen are practically all the same tradition dimensions. I was always a fan of that pegless bridge design on Ovations TBH. So, obviously slots instead of holes would make it easier to change stings, since you wouldn't have to feed them thru in reverse. I never tried it bc holes work fine & I'm well used to the procedure. But I'm pretty sure slots wouldn't affect the blank's solidness too much & still allow the ball ends to clamp the blank sufficiently, in which case just a piece of ANY temporary tape could keep the strings from sliding out of the bone until the strings are tensioned, if you know what I mean. Been wanting to try it for a while, perhaps I'll make a vid of it soon. Anyway, I only mention all of this because just recently I seen a vid where a guy is $elling a brass rod("thE tone bar ™" I think it was)🤪, that just goes thru the ball ends for a better top "connection". I do suppose he's at least partially there with that though.
I like the like the brass mid punch. Nice tool to have and can adjust with strum power.
Oddly, perhaps, the pins I liked the least were the bone pins. They seem to drop a lot of the high frequency resonance that I associate with my Martins. None sound bad, but literally, that is the set that I noted the most drop in a frequency range. But I'm getting pretty old, so perhaps I seek the higher frequencies? Anyway, you asked, I opined, and thanks for the demonstration.
The bridge transfers vibrations to the top though the saddle. Obviously, you don't want to dampen the vibrations with rubber or something soft like plastic. But, I am not sold on there being much of a difference between anything that is hard - go for the one that you like the look of. I use ebony or bone and find them both equally acceptable. For the best bang-for-the-buck upgrade, changing out things the strings actually vibrate off of is where to start --> This is the nut, saddle, pick (material and thickness) and your pick attack. Those are the places where you can change the sound of your instrument outside of different strings or a different instrument.
I bought a Martin 000-18MC (Martin Carthy) which comes with three rosewood pins on the bass side and three brass ones on the treble. He plays in a sort of C based open tuning -- CGCDGA -- so especially those two top strings (probably really both B gauge strings) can really use the treble boost.
Makes sense there would be a difference because the density and dimensions will alter the resonant frequencies of the pins and by extension the sound board they’re sitting in. Wood sounds warm, brass rings out and bone sounds deeper due to overall mass / dimensions presumably. I’d be interested to see if we can make pins to selectively tailor for certain sounds, as guitar acoustics aren’t actually that well understood to my knowledge. I mean scientifically, as opposed to practically. Maybe I’m totally wrong of course, I just remember reading somewhere that most of what is known about guitar design has been learned through iteration as opposed to scientific understanding. Interesting stuff either way!
A given guitar is always going to be what it is, but others factors can and will slightly tweak the sound. For me, and in this order it’s:
Strings
Saddle
Pins
Nice demo Brad.
Thanks Brad.
I have an LX-1 Martin which I've thought about trying something other than the stock pins in.
I think I'll just save my money for now 👍🏼
From a physics perspective I think the extra mass of the brass pins may affect the tone a bit as vibrating the extra mass would use energy otherwise transferred to the sound board, but this is just an academic observation. I don't know enough about the specific motion dynamics of the sound board and bridge system, but I think it would be worthwhile to use a sensitive scale and measure the mass of the pin sets in each material. I suspect the brass pins will be 2-3 times more than the others. I would predict that bone would be the next highest mass, but not sure whether plastic or rosewood would be the lightest. What the effect is on the subjective experience of the sound would probably require a more sensitive and better trained ear than mine.
I think you’re misinterpreting the physics regarding the propagation of sound waves through a medium. There is more to this propagation than mass or density; e.g. a brass or silver object will propagate sound waves more readily than a similarly shaped object made of lead or zinc. Material matters a great deal. Personally, I’d like to hear sets of pins made of glass, silver, gold, platinum, palladium…anything other than dead plastic, which does not propagate sound waves very readily, and in fact has the opposite deadening effect.
Great video! I never thought about this concept until now. I know everyone’s ear is differen, so here’s my personal take:
From brightest to warmest, I would list them Brass, Rosewood, Bone. It’s a very subtle difference though. From Bone to Rosewood, then Rosewood to Brass, I could just barely hear any distinction. However, changing from Brass to Bone had the greatest difference in tone that I could hear, even if it was still a subtle change. Something to keep in mind is that when you start talking about performing and recording, you’re talking about playing for extended periods of time where you will eventually catch on to all those little nuances of every part of your instrument. To the listener it may not always make a difference, but remember that the first listener is the player! I prefer bright tones so I might go shopping for some new pins now.
Thanks for sharing!
Great playing! Reminds me of my dad playing when I was a kid. Like you, he was a multi-instrumentalist. Drums, Guitar, and Piano....always had an instrument within reach.
Great demo, thanks. I like rosewood best as it sounds clearer, but where you strum makes a big difference too of course.
brass = higher. bone = warm. rosewood = just cool, ive always liked wood pins hahah they just seem... i dont know more natural??? right now im rocking the liquid metal martin pins. theyre decent.
Haha that is hilarious! You spend that much on bridge pins? The difference is your brain justifying your money you wasted. Spend that on a setup or a bone nut or bridge. The bridge pins are just the break angle.
@@gavinw5469 I don't need to spend anything on a 'set up' I've been playing for 31 years. I'm fully capable of setting myself up (revealing your vast knowledge I see) and if you did literally 1 second of research you'd see ALOT!!! of newer/higher end Martin's CoMe WiTh LiQuId BrIdGe PiNs. And all guitars worth anything already Come with bone, tusq or some comparable material already installed. But hey that was a very good comment. You got me good you fucker.
@@gavinw5469 hell I'm even gonna thumbs up your comment. Good form.
@@benhaven7501 I am confused why it is a good comment lol. I don't know how I got you good either. I have done hundreds of hours of research. I personally think that bridge pins are kinda a gimmick.
Obviously your experience trumps my knowledge that comes from science when talking about tone. Seriously. That is not meant to be sarcastic. I personally feel that the bridge pins are the least important factor for tone. In my opinion, the tops stiffness to weight ratio and hand voicing the top are the most important factors for tone.
loved hearing you play some acoustic -as for bridge pins ,i`ve been playing over 40 years and never thought about it until 10 minutes ago
Billy Corgan, the singer and guitar player of the Smashing Pumpkins has a signature acoustic guitar and one of the aspects he wanted to change on the original prototype was to have brass pins. He explained that it makes the guitar sound brighter.
He also said the paint color effects tone
@@BockwinkleB I know, right?! I remember when he said that, he said something like "I've noticed that guitars with a white finish always sound better". I still can't believe that he said that. Also, when he was on Joe Rogan's podcast, he said that he saw someone shapeshifting right in front of him.
I'm still a fan of his music, though (what he did in the 90's, not what he's doing now). I guess that you need to seperate the artist and his beliefs from his art.
@@BockwinkleB sun/tobacco burst sound warmer. Black and white sound sleek lol. I think a lot of tone stuff like this is just the impression you get looking at it. You never hear any of these minor differences on a recording. It matters to the musician cause it gives us mojo, but I don’t think a listener will ever know or care what bridge pins you got
I play 2 guitars with nut/saddle of bone and the saddle pins of steel, and 2nd guitar bone nut/saddle with B and E1st string bone and the rest of steel pins and I changed all the sound so drastically that to this day I'm forever in love with the sound, I also used bone and tusk pins never wood, if you play in open areas street and "campfire" you will get the most of metal because the highs are really strong and make for the loud noises in the background, but if you play indoors may be better idea to get bone or wood, to my prefference metal gives me the sound I want and for me in this demo metal it the nicest round sound In all the strings. Nice vid, thanks!!
I hate these kinds of tests - in a good way. I predicted there would be no difference and I was wrong. It is good to be willing to be wrong I am learning as an old(er) dude. Glad you did this, I need to get some bone pins for my Martin!
That was a tough one but with a set of Bose headphones on this is what I heard. 1. Rosewood: was even toned across the chords and had a mellow vibe and was my favorite of the three. 2. Brass: was not as loud and had a slight reverb effect, kind of reflective sounding. 3: Bone: sounded the loudest to me, through my headphones, with very good reflection.
The big difference to me was volume and reflection, with the exception of the Brass pins which had that slight reverb sound. This is all subjective and could sound way different to many people who listen to it. It's funny how so many people will argue over " which is best".. The best is what you like and the differences are subtle.
This was a very good video.
Holy %%$# you're a great player! I've watched your channel for years and this video really showed your guitar playing skills in a way I'd not seen before!
Classical guitar strings now have the nubs on ends on some brand strings which makes it a whole lot easier than lacing them as far as the sound I've never really noticed.
Wow! I'm a keyboard player who dabbles in guitar and I never would have thought that the pins would make such a difference!
Shit this is perfect for me brad i hadn't thought of it. I need brass pins in my life i play a eko 12 string that's got a lush warm big body but my guitar doc put a 7 string bridge in there at my request, thats a normal 6 string setup but with 2 G's(high and low G) I LOVE IT and its a dream to write on but a hint of extra high clarity from them brass pins are quite evident to me in this vid and it will make my eko bit closer to my dream acoustic, massive thanks
Don't bother to change, it just adds weight to guitar top without making it harder to vibrate.
12 brass pins is too much weight.
I'm no tone snob or anything, but the pins ABSOLUTELY do change the tone. I tried several different ones for my vintage Gibson acoustic. I tried plastic, aluminum, brass, rosewood, etc. I settled on camel bone. Intuitively and logically, it _does_ make sense that changing the pins will change the tone. The silver coin comparison is perfect.
...but I was pretty shocked that there was a major difference between pins. ..at least on my guitar.
I chose camel bone because it was waaaaaaay better than the others.
Hi,bone nut is a bit darker in sound.....for strats to me bone is a must, all my gutars have bone, homemade made biggest difference. thank you, you are a great source
I changed out the plastic pins on my Dean Exotica acoustic a few years back for an ebony set and I must say I like the ebony pins better.The guitar is noticeably louder and clearer not as dark and muffly sounding.
Oh what beautiful music you make
IMHO the rosewood pins sound warmer, but lack clarity. The brass pins enhance brilliance. The bone pins do a bit of both, though lack warmth compared to the rosewood pins. These variances were more noticeable when strumming than when picking. I play a Taylor 414-ceR that lacks top end brilliance, so I am, therefore, considering the brass pins as a replacement. For another guitar I would likely choose bone.
I just watched a video on making a slight Chanel in the bridge perhaps 1/8” towards the sound hole..to increase the angle as it drops down from the saddle towards the pins. There “definitely “ was a positive sound difference..with more of a tonal separation of each string…
Get the Black Tusq pins from Canada GraphTech. The best tone materials. They rings like cristal
I asked Doug my dog he said "Bone for me man!" 🐈👍🇬🇧
Im just here to hear that sweet Martin. I use only weasle femurs for string pins.
I don't know if you ever read the Harmony Central acoustic guitars section some 10 to 15 years ago, but there once was a thread about the influence of bridge pins on sound that later was referred to as The Bridge Pins War 😀
I hear almost district differences between the three, what this experiment shows is that pins do have an affect. This might well help us customize an individual guitars sound (ever so slightly)...
I have a Martin D28CW with Adirondack Top. As pricey as it was (to me anyway) it came with the cheapest of string pins. I am slow to modify or try new things but I have to fight to be objective. While a matter of milligrams, I am always suspect of anything that adds weight to the bridge plate area. But I may try some bone pins sometime. In the back of my mind, I remember watching videos of professional violinists listening blind to modern violins played against an authentic Strad. Their guesses were all over the place and most picked modern instruments, explaining different reasons why they thought it was the original. In my years of working on old fiddles, I find it really hard to discern between the mojo and scientific fact. I'm not saying the pins don't affect tone or volume but they certainly might. I do know when I think I have some sort of added mojo to an instrument, I think I strive to play better, so if that works, then the end justified the means. Still, I will have to try the pin exchange someday.
Definitely a difference there. I think the choice would depend on the wood too. I have a mahogany top so probably brass would be the better choice if I wanted to add a bit of brightness to the sound.
B-Radical! Glad to see you’re, well, buddy!
3:23 - Rosewood, Strumming
3:54 - Brass, Strumming
4:26 - Bone, Strumming
5:09 - Rosewood, Finger Picking
6:07 - Brass, Finger Picking
6:42 - Bone, Finger Picking
...
I can tell a clear difference. As other commenters have said: Rosewood is "warmer" or "calm," Brass more obvious with the treble (but it could be harsher,) but as for Bone? It's kind of on neutral ground between Rosewood and Brass.
Don't expect a gigantic difference here. We're talking differences of how many spices in a recipe here; do you want it more calm with cinnamon and cloves, or do you want it more gingery? Or in the middle?
Thanks for the short cuts... easier to compare!😁
@@davidpaul6870 You're welcome.
Yes they are different, the brass and bone in perticular are more "alive" or vibrant . A brighter sound for sure.
I think you could carve pins out of a stick and that old Martin would still sound lovely.. very good comparison on the different pins, the tusk
If you set it up right the pegs have zero influence on the strings. The ball should be seated into the underneath of the bridge and the strings angled forward on top of the saddle. The pegs are just a convenience for changing strings and play no role in the sound .
The three types are noticeably different and I expect that the best choice depends on the guitar. I'm leaning towards hardwood pins for mine, but I can see where brass would help tighten up a boomy guitar.
It's funny how everyone's ear and headphones/speakers are a bit different. My 2008 Guild DV-6 came with plastic pins and I upgraded them to bone. I loved the tone before, and still love it with the bone pins. Listening to this back to back comparison was pretty cool, but I almost thought the brass sounded the best during the strumming. It seemed to bring out the lower frequencies of the guitar. I may try those next time I do a string change. Thanks for this, Brad!
It's all in the ears ,rosewood is warm ,brass is brite and clear with lots of treble ,bone is well rounded,highs ,lows and mids . So after hearing you play , I would go with the bone .Hahaha . So I'm the end its up to the guy playing. Good to see ya playing again . Not that you have it up.Lol. Have a great weekend.🎸
It's on the other side of the Saddle Node it's Mute. I find the best improvement for any guitar is playing in front of a naked lady 👍😎
Amen, brother.
Leroy, if you have a naked Lady sitting in front of you and you are still playing guitar,……….?
@@paulmac3042 Well you got to let the lady rest catch her breath. 🤟😎
I think bone slightly had a more balance tone, honestly though on this stuff I just upgrade from plastic to bone and call it a day. I am in the camp just upgrade from plastic. The Luxe pins I am very curious on, cause Martins video on them was an interesting experiment
My thinking from listening would be have the 3 lower pitch strings on wood pins and the 3 higher pitch strings on brass pins. This should give some more resonance at the low end and boost the treble frequencies at the high end.
The brass had the best projection,but as far as the rest,hardly a difference, maybe just a little better with bone,but remember these pins are only holding the strings against the bridge itself, and that's where the brass has the advantage I believe,wonder what a bridge made completely out of brass would sound like,it would probably be a pain to glue on,but how about a brass saddle vs a bone saddle shoot out Brad, thanks for the video.
One luthier I saw on YT suggested the heavier mass of brass bridge pins tend to inhibit the saddle from doing its job properly of transferring the string vibrations to the sound board. Ultimately THAT is where your sound comes from so anything that helps the string transfer energy to the soundboard will help. As for the different pin materials, the differences to me were only slight, although I have a set of brass pins I pulled out of my Maton as I didn't like the overalls feel and sound.
For that Guitar. The Rosewood has more tonality and warmth. Bone tends to brighten a bit more. Brass is similar to bone but seems warmer.
I say go with what you like. AND keep in mind your materials of the entire guitar. If you had a Guitar that was more Bass-y. Then you could brighten it with a Bone Pin/Nut/Saddle type combo. Likewise if your guitar seems to bright, Rosewood or similar may help dampen that brightness back.
Rosewood sounded most natural for strumming. Bone sounded most natural for finger picking. Brass was just honky in all cases, imo. Thank you for the demonstration!
Much to my surprise, the brass gave kind of "suppressed" tone (I expected a bit of ringing). Rosewood gave that pleasant openness/transparency, but, to be honest, with this gorgeous guitar, all of them worked just fine...
Yes, they do make a difference, the rosewood has a nice warm tone with a mild resonating sustain, great for a nice flat equalization type of to e, the brass have an excellent bright and forward, a full and long resonating sustain, grst for a nice transcendental/melodic/mystical type of tone, the bone also a warm yet quick-release like sustain, great for ominous touches/grungy punches and outlaw sustenance, my good sir
I changed pins on a br140 from plastic to brass not because I wanted a different sound but because I broke the plastic trying to get it out. Brass was all my music store had and I needed them right then. The brass made the guitar sound brighter and louder. Never went back to plastic.
I think there’s more to it than just changing the pins. The string type and playing method are instrumental in creating the “right” tone, and then, the “right” tone will be different to everybodies ears.
Personally I like bone pins, but that’s just because I use bone saddles and they seem to compliment each other.
I also used to make my own wooden pins and I could definitely hear the difference between softer woods and harder, more dense woods.
I recently went down this rabbit hole when thinking about changing pegs and all the info I read said that brass pegs will help to make a dark sounding acoustic sound brighter and your video seems to bear this out but to my ears its not as big a difference as I thought. I went for bone in the end as the two other brass and tusk pegs I bought didnt fit my guitar, they were too big! So check the size before you buy.
..I switched over to copper pins on my Guild ...makes a huge difference , especially playing live , plugged in ..more high end sparkle .