Want to dive deeper on how we know Daniel was written after the events it "prophesies?" Check out Digital Hammurabi's full playlist on dating the book of Daniel (and make sure to subscribe while you're over there): ruclips.net/video/cxqLM9Pu0U0/видео.html
Any chance he'll do an audio-book? I've gotten to a point in my life where I don't have time to read a physical book over 200 pages, but I can throw an audio-book in the background while I work out, mow, or take care of the kids. This is definitely one I want to listen to.
@@chefbarona3052 I think what defines a "decent" argument is the honesty of the person making it. An honest person making a bad argument can at least start a decent discussion, if they're open to new info.
@@andybeans5790 The problem is we have heard all the atheists arguments against Christianity. The "new" information is just recycled arguments from the past repackaged in different wrapping paper.
I just wanna say thank you for your videos. I was so afraid of burning in hell because of the things my family told me over the years that made me a depressed and sad person. Your channel has opened my eyes to none of what they say is true and that I was brainwashed into thinking all of that. My family is Russian orthodox. Hardcore religious. I told them I don’t believe in any of it anymore. They don’t talk to me anymore which is their loss cause I’m a pretty cool person 😎
@@lindadavis5668 it’s devastating to know that your family loves an inanimate object (icon) more than you because of their religious beliefs 😞 my grandmother told me straight up that the icon I was given to me as a child was worth more than me. That’s when I had had enough. That’s not the love of a family. That’s a complete brainwashed person from birth. I don’t blame my gma cause that’s all she’s ever known but her condemning me because I ask questions she doesn’t have the answers to is just ridiculous. I have my husband/ kids and his family who are not insane people. They are the kinds of people I wish I had grown up with and am so great full to have found them :)
I remember in Catholic Church as a child thinking "this can't be real, this sounds like a fairy tale". Everything I have learned since has reinforced that. A woman once told me years ago "our task in life is to undo the damage that our parents did to us". Even in the best case damage is done. And rarely is it the best case.
Wht not? Bob Fosse did a whole movie about his own death ("All That Jazz"), several years before he actually died. Fictionalized, of course, but with the real people from Fosse's life; his girlfriend, for example, played the girlfriend in the movie.
Yeah, but that's the laziest argument on that topic. When people say he wrote the Pentateuch, I presume it's nearly universally accepted that they mean except for the last few verses. Or, you know, that he wrote the whole thing using one or more scribes, who then added the last few verses after he was gone. There's all kinds of textual reasons to know they weren't written by a single person (or team) and also not written in 1200 BC. The "Deuteronomy describes Moses's death, lol" argument is the least interesting or convincing.
Outstanding testimony I can relate to profoundly. The most startling thing when learning everything you once believed to be false is learning of the availability and amplitude of information that proves beyond a reasonable doubt the Bible to be false. One sits stunned and asks “after so many years of tireless study how did I not happen sooner upon this information?” Never underestimate the power of indoctrination or the religious community’s ability to hide, suppress and misrepresent information!
The Bible isn't false. Your understanding of what it says is false. Nothing said in this video was accurate to what these prophecies were talking about.
@S Gloval archeology, radiometric dating, linguistic analysis, biology, astronomy, history, ethics, philosophy, chemistry, church history, canonization, history of doctrine, anthropology,... those I can list off the top of my head, but clearly you don’t take science very seriously to ask such a question. At the very least a believer should be able to acknowledge there are evidences against the veracity of biblical accounts. Lack thereof not only betrays an observation of science but objectivity and intellectual honesty.
@S Gloval saying the Bible is false does not mean there is no god for one. As to the rest of this, is this really the line of argument you were going with with your initial comment (that is the order of the universe bit)? If not you’re moving the goal post which is a dishonest way for having any discussion and a conversation about ethics are in order. Whatever mysteries the origin of the universe holds, and the order therein, observable orders have proven themselves reliable and show much evidence to the point of proving “beyond a reasonable doubt” many biblical claims and events are not true as rendered or represented in the text. I notice you sidestepped my comment of how an honest believer must at the very least acknowledge there are evidences against the veracity of the Bible. Notice I don’t side-step yours, though I find them quite tawdry- cosmic and epistemological skepticism, seriously?
ESTCF!! That stands for the Top-LGBT-Coverage i know of and can recommend you warmly: Emma Thorne, Some More News, Telltale Fireside, Creaky Blinder and Forrest Valkai.
People looking for excuses to remain in theirs sinful nature... Brethren, repent and be converted, so that you will be saved from damnation. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Kingdom of God 🔊
Such a well-done video. The animations make it so much more engaging and easier to follow. (It also makes technical scholarship less boring). Had to have taken a lot of time and work. Thank you!
I adore 'Some More News' Intent to tackle Problems. Reminds me of Knowing Better, Illuminaughtii and Telltale Fireside. Holy Koolaid, also. Imagine i could ever stop recommending them to my fellow Cody-Fans... i cant imagine it myself, but feel free to.
I'm curious about one thing. You say you are a "jewish atheist". What exactly do you mean with that? Is it that you considered yourself jewish before losing your faith? Or is it some sort of ethnic identification? Something else?
@@tranquilthoughts7233 Jews consider themselves a "people." It's kind of like ethnicity because it relates to our customs and history which CAN include religious beliefs but also the practice of certain customs or eating certain foods simply because they are traditional. It's not like ethnicity because there are different ethnic variations among Jews, the most common being Ashkenazic and Sephardic (among others). These two groups have different food traditions, & language pronounciation. Anyway, one can be jewish without being religious. I'll blow you're mind and tell you that my favorite rabbi (who passed away many years ago) was a skeptic 🙂, very rational, possibly an atheist but definitely agnostic.
No, there must be a distinction between religion (rather sect of the Abrahamism religion) and nation and state. For the latter there’re Hebrew and Israelite.. or Judahite or Judean which three contrast with the other Hebrew Samaritan. Likewise Hebrews aren’t the only Semites, a race, but contrast with [As]Syrians. NonJudaist Jew is a ocsymòron like atheist Kristian-actually there are no Kristians but Petrist, papist, mishmash, or Paulist Hæretics who do what Gospels expressly oppose.
I LOVE the added cartoons and text. When your brain tends to wander a bit, seeing the cute visuals and text imprints the ideas in my brain so much more. Great job!
I agree, but I am just worried about one thing. The CCTV camera in the background keeps going back to Josh - does someone not trust him to leave the Assyriuan statuary behind when he's done? Cartoon theft is still theft. I am kidding of course, I thought this was a really erudite discussion of the subject and very much enjoyed it. Just leave the relics behind on your way out Dr. Bowen.
What started my deconversion was a little different. While access to information helped, it was actually being exposed to absolutely ludicrous beliefs that made me re-examine alot of my own beliefs. My father was unironically becoming a flat earther. The complete insanity and realization that someone can honestly believe in something so demonstrably false scared me. It made me question if I had any views as insane as that.
It's sad that we're in a period where an increasing number of people believe in demonstrably false topics for emotional, religious or ideological reasons.
@@chrisbarboza9314 Most flerfers were not raised that way. They abandoned science for ideological reasons and a kind of naive realism that convinced them that their human senses were more reliable than all of the technology designed to surpass the limits of human natural perception. They are demonstrably wrong and many of them know that.
Yes, the more education you get, especially about the bible, archeology, and textual criticism, the further you get from your childhood indoctrination in religion.
Yes, the more time you spend reading the bible the better chance you have of understanding what God did on your behalf to reconcile sinful man back to Him. Or you can listen to what the world says about God.
@@John-uk8eo Or you can just ask the questions yourself: who's God is the God, who created God, how many contradictions and impossibilities are listed in the bible, why does prayer fail on par with the statistical average, why did the god of the bible STOP "revealing" himself, and apparently only did that to the Hebrews anyway, and so on and so forth.
@@justaguy6100 No one created God. No contradictions. Prayers to God always are answered in one of two ways. Yes or no. Some prayers are incredibly arrogant prayers...like asking for an attractive wife or rich husband. Asking for immediate gratification as if God were some genie whose only purpose is to run around making wishes come true.. This shows an irreverent attitude towards God. Probably the result of a suspect religious background where God is thought of as a butler as opposed to God.
@@John-uk8eo "Prayers to God are always answered" tell that to some grieving Xtian parents who prayed their hearts out over a child with a terminal disease, or visit the Xtian sections of southern Africa where children pray while they starve to death, or are pressed into service for warlords. No my friend, NOTHING fails like prayer.
I have a few things in common with the guest. I was also fundamentalist Christian and was also in that religion for about 25 years. The difference being that I wasn’t raised that way, but converted independently at the age of 12. I also went to college with the intention of going into the ministry, but my focus was apologetics and counseling. I also deconverted, but to Wicca rather than atheism. I began to lose my faith for a number of reasons, but one of the biggest was I realized the true nature of apologetics. It really comes down to trying to reconcile the irreconcilable, excuse the inexcusable, and attempt, through dishonest reinterpretation, to square the cognitive dissonance the inconsistencies in the Bible create. I started seeing the mess for what it really was and just couldn’t keep lying to myself, pretending it could all be explained away. I had to reevaluate everything I thought I believed and found it all lacking substance.
And you fell into witchcraft as an alternative.. yea you really turned over a new leaf.. sounds like you were and are, still deceived and never had a firm grasp on anything.. only rehashing your own misunderstood interpretation of Man's spin off version of a Holy book. Maybe.. just maybe.. man is not meant to understand everything that we encounter. Such as the supernatural.. but through faith interpret these events with the Holy spirit. Or maybe we should just give up and lay with the devil, as most in this comment thread have decided was thier "truth" in weakness. Professing themselves to be wise.. they became fools.
One of the bravest things one can do is to admit to YOURSELF you are wrong, especially. when your wrongness caused irreversible harm to others. Many people rather lie to themselves for the rest of their lives than being so honest to themselves. Too many US myths about the lone hero that is always right in his gut-feelings and his outright self-justice against all laws and regulations. That theme is so persistent that people think that is reality, that their own identity depends on being exactly like that.
@@feedsravens4655 - I didn’t grow up in the US, but in England we still get those Lone Hero stories (like James Bond). Still, humility comes a tad easier to many Europeans. Probably because we don’t have that fiery “my rights” independent streak, and we’re more accustomed to cooperating with others. I’ve never understood people who stubbornly refuse to admit they’re wrong. You can’t set a problem right until you acknowledge it exists.
@@hollyhartwick3832 Totally agree. I am a germ(an), yes, we experienced what can happen when a country is methodically lured into believing it is supreme. We learn about the tiny, seeminly innocent early signs. About the appeal, about the aesthethics. About the psychology. The US people only learn about the screaming madman they won over. Never how easy the METHODS can be adapted to another society- like theirs, their glorious "God's own country". How religious tropes can be easily integrated. Love your last sentence. To think about WHAT you think and WHY, what is the origin of that thought, from me or just gobbled up carelessly, - that takes effort, training and courage. And to admit to yourself you were wrong, that your error produced irreversible harm to others and you have to stand to that - epic.
Medo-persian empire. This reminds me of my World History professor back in my freshman year. He kept alternating between "Median Empire" and "Persian Empire," until someone asked him what the difference was. He replied, "There's no difference, really. One man’s Mede is another man’s Persian." I enjoyed that class.
lol, try reading some serious scholars like Kenneth Kitchen's Reliability of the Old Testament before you make aliens think we're all devoid of critical thinking like you, Bowen, and the rest
@@HolyKoolaid of course! I love all of the historicity of the Bible stuff… and there is remarkably little content on RUclips about it. Although Yale has an entire course on the subject on RUclips!
And maybe you have heard what the other degree abbreviations are sometimes translated as. After a person gets their BS they can go on a get an MS--More Shlt and Phd-- Piled Higher and Deeper!! And for the really ambitious academic there is finally PGBS or Post Graduate Bull Shlt!! 😂🤣 Having said that I very much respect the well educated professionals a thousand times more then the evangelical bible thumpers or the conspiracy theory hacks!
Yeah, it makes my actual BS seem less meaningful. Of course, I made fun of my bullshit in mechanical engineering long before I found out you could also get a BS in BS.
there is an old joke : a Black congregation member asks a pastor: reverend what does BS on diploma mean ? pastor answered-you know what bs means ? yeah, bull shit, right. Then, what does MS mean? ;well, answers the man of cloth : more of the same ,OK. But what PhD means - just piled higher and deeper!
@@frankiewally1891 I think I missed something, what does the skin color of the guy have to do with anything? Tbh, told this way it makes it seem like a racist joke but I get the impression it wasn't intended like that so I'm sitting here trying to figure out what I'm missing. Please be patient with me, I'm autistic, ADHD & some seizures over the last few years have really screwed with my memory & cognition. I intend absolutely no offense with anything I say.
I just want to say thank you to Holy Koolaid, Myth Vision, and Harmonic atheist for putting great content out. I’m recovering from religious abuse and it’s been easier with these channels. Better than going to the psych ward...
Appreciate debunking of Ezekiel. As a Fundamentalist, I repressed the thought that Ezekiel sounded like a fruitcake. Now, I freely proclaim, "Ezekiel sounds like a fruitcake!!!" Feels good to be free.
4:10 yup, similar thing happened to me, but it was about Moses and the Exodus. That's why fundamentalists HAVE TO defend a literal interpretation of the Bible tooth and nail or else the whole house of cards falls apart
@@SnarkyTattertots-su2xt this is so stupid, God doesn't intervene and allows choices to be make and only responds to results, this is core stuff... find a better church
I hope Josh makes an audiobook version of his books, he has a great voice and for those of us with terrible attention disorders, auditory sources are preferable.
People looking for excuses to remain in theirs sinful nature... Brethren, repent and be converted, so that you will be saved from damnation. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Kingdom of God 🔊
Very interesting stuff. When I was 17-18 years, I read about 95% the bible and became agnostic about the whole thing. Contradictons, misogynism and the blatant violence was that throw me off from the "good God" idea. My relatives were and still are very hardcore Lutheran. More I got older, more I got these "are you kidding me" moments with them when they came to me to speak about what great things God has given them or their "good (always nameless) friend" "yet again". To me it started to sound more like "Santa gave me presents and tooth fairy too. I'm so lucky..." And I'm thinking "coincidence, luck and you forgetting that you tried like 100 times that before and finally got it right...". I have no problems if some one believe in God, the Great Pumpking or PowerBall when they keep it them selves without harassing or manipulate other people. I've been watching your videos for some time now and I have found them very informative and well thought. i have to check Bowen´s books! Keep up the good work!
@@holyromankingdomofthepoles7027 Here's one- the numerous commands by the Bible that women should submit and shouldn't be teaching or preaching to men. That's something in the Bible, buddy. 1 Timothy 2:11-12 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Ephesians 5:22 1 Corinthians 11:5 Need I go on?
@@9skyman945 Dear 9skyman9. 1 Timothy is an authentic letter of Paul the blessed apostle to Timothy, the first verse you sent me is to read in context because it’s a personnal letter. 1 Timothy 11-12 is obviously not universal because Paul permitted Aquila and Priscilla who were elders to teach young women in rome, yet Priscilla was a women. And Paul knew there were women highly regarded in the church. What Paul is adressing is a particular case. The best hypothesis is that he was addressing preacher women who were speaking in tongues in the church, and prophecying, as this is addressed by sources. But at least we can know by confidence that Paul isn’t saying that for all women. Also for the second verse, many scholars like Joseph Fitzmyer point out these two verses (34 and 35) is Paul actually quoting the Corinthians and responding to them, he employs the technique in other places like 1 Corinthians 13:8-1. And he also confirm women are allowed to speak in churches (1 Corinthians 11;5) 1 Corinthians 14:39 and Galatians 3:28 and Romans 16:6. Also Ephesians 5:22 is Paul addressing the greeks , Paul has been admitting many times he adapts his teachings to other cultures like in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23. In fact Paul doesn’t care if a society is male dominated because he couldn’t change that, but he cared more about people’s heart and how to regulate their morality, when Paul is addressing the Greek people obviously he is going to respect their culture, he admitted it himself, so this is not a command for every women in the world, but the command of women being submitted is true and pretty universal, unlike “the man is the leader of the wife” because Man and women mutually submit to each other, the man lays down his life for her and works all day, while the women bears him a child. Maybe you think it is sexist they mutually respect each other. And again in 1 Corinthians 11:5 Paul is not forcing women of the entire world to cover up their head or to shave them off, he is using Reductio ad absurdum and speaking on the tone of irony. Basically this is supposed to mean women have to dress modestly according to their cultural standards, nothing more simple. You need to work on your interpretation. Have a good day and be blessed ❤️✝️🙏
@@holyromankingdomofthepoles7027 they really need work on the interpretation indeed....it'd be sad to loose your soul because you didn't find answers but tried to explain in your own words and draw false conclusions
Did it for me at a very young age, no history or linguistics understanding needed. It was the mentally acrobatic answers I got for questioning it that confirmed my suspicion that it was total BS. I got way more truth and life lessons from Donald Duck, and Micky mouse cartoons than anything in the bible!
So, I left the faith for EXACTLY this reason. After studying this for just a while I was like: “Oh, the Bible was written by men for men. Alright, I’m out.” I have been MUCH happier and more loving since.
@@Agueybana787 is it because satan is not bothering him anymore that he is noticing the mistakes and illogical things in the bible? That makes no sense. It is a deflection and minimalisation of the reason why he left the religion. Same thing happened to me a year ago. If the bible is Gods word it should be perfect. If it isn't Gods word then it holds no meaning.
I like the miniature Ishtar gate door trim, very cute. It would be even funnier if it were used as a fireplace, complete with logs & grate, andirons, a set of styled fire tools, etc.
This episode was stupendous!! You are both such deep wells of knowledge. Your guest is a great speaker, with minute details and information flowing off his tongue and said in a way that makes it easily understandable. I sat, rapt, through the entire video.
I love Josh's point about how interesting it is that failed prophecy was left in. We have no way of telling how many failed prophecy were excised through the ages
Well they can tell to some extent: compare current versions of the text to the older ones and to the oldest ones we have, and any differences would be apparent. It'll leave a gap between the oldest surviving text and the time the text was first written/compiled, hence they can tell only "to some extent".
@@TheMCCraftingTablethe thing is, the oldest surviving texts we have are the Dead Sea Scrolls and the distance in time between them and the prophets is vast. Hundreds of years at minimum for some. That is a vast period in which texts could be re-written, amended, destroyed, etc...
As an atheist named after a book of the Bible who gave up Christianity long ago, I do have to give a shout-out to the Christian churches who raised me (Methodists and Catholics, mostly) for not only being honest about the fragmentary nature of the Bible, but in fact teaching me all about the J E D P authorship of the Pentateuch as well as the contradictions/textual weavings of Job and even the non-canonical gospels. I'm not saying things were perfect--my Catholic high school did try to teach the history of religion as sort of a drive towards the truth of monotheism, with examples like Akenaten pointed at almost like "see? They were getting closer and closer!" But there was no insistence that I disbelieve my own eyes when reading the Bible. And thus, no "if one thing falls, so fall it all." Despite the huge political force behind evagelical Christianinty, and how in-your-face they are with Ark Encounters and Jack Chick comics and all that crap, the truth is that most Christians are able to have faith AND see the Bible as a spiritual rather than a literal book that claims to be infallible and written directly by Moses and Aaron or whoever. The truth is, I still DID lose my faith. And I'll be honest that those non-canonical gospels did play a role (because it's like, so Constantine picked a bunch of dudes and they chose gospels out of a hat to be in the Bible? That's weird!). But I think the bigger problem was just how BORING church was.
I see the problem as somebody fairly recently getting the bright idea that the Bible is a literal book that claims to be infallible and written directly by Moses and Aaron or whoever, and teaching that to their young people. I also read the apocrypha and the non-canonical books, and that was interesting, too. As an Episcopalian who is one of those "most Christians" who still have faith, I was taught from the start that the Bible has a fragmentary spiritual narrative. I do see a problem with Constantine deciding to co-opt Christianity and set up Roman Catholicism a bit too much like the Roman military. I think I'm still in the church because I was told that one of reasons for having the church was to learn how to be with and work with other people - the loud, the shy, the odd, the very conventional, the angry, the sad, the anti-intellectual, the pedantic, the righteous, the people recovering from really bad places in their life, the hugely boring who enjoy that and the sparklingly lovely who also still have problems... and work together to help others recover from the disasters that have hit them, as well as to pray and worship God, and if we have the gift of music, to raise wonderful music to God.
People looking for excuses to remain in theirs sinful nature... Brethren, repent and be converted, so that you will be saved from damnation. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Kingdom of God 🔊
Interesting what triggers a person to question their entire belief system... I had a specific moment reading the Bible. Found a contradiction in Matthew/Luke and I was over the edge. I was done after 20 years in the cult. It was like a switch and a veil was lifted.
When I was a kid, my mom got me a copy of Erich von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods. Putting the ancient astronaut hypothesis aside, the book put me in touch with an ancient world that had existed for thousands of years, and which had never heard of Jews, their god(s), their religious books, or even Palestine. I began to read ancient history because of that book. Which made me an Atheist.
I'm glad you liked it. I did a very similar one with Dr. Andrew Henry of Religion for Breakfast which I think you would like too. ruclips.net/video/_fh1n8zoXxo/видео.html
Thank you so much for this, this is outstanding! I'm definitely going to be adding this to my debunking pseudoscience/religious indoctrination playlist! Wish I could afford to pledge on Patreon, but hopefully one day soon!
An excellent episode. I’m excited to hear that you plan to do more episodes of nothing fails like Bible history. Those were my introduction to your channel
@@captaintripps8490 you mean like Biden got the most votes in history? If you voted for Biden, you got what you deserve. Funny that now you realize trump was right about many things. I sure would like a few mean tweets and $1.89 a gallon gas. Trump didn't lose, America lost. And you're still losing.
Delightful and concise piece! The illustrations help also. I love seeing the Ishtar Gate lurking in the background though, since many a young earth creationist insists the dragons there were literal surviving dinosaurs.
Directly shared it with a good friend who loves Biblical origins studies and also the work on contradictions! Love your easy to understand explanations!
@@HolyKoolaid ESTCF!! That stands for the Top-LGBT-Coverage i know of and can recommend you warmly: Emma Thorne, Some More News, Telltale Fireside, Creaky Blinder and Forrest Valkai. Would be epic if you ever do Shout-Outs to 'em, Koolaid.
I could listen to Dr. Josh talk about his areas of study all-day/every-day … great interview as well 🍻 here’s to hoping for me of these between these two.
Ppl do try to fake Shakespearean English - and they get it wrong constantly because those grammar rules are basically unknown to the average person. So while the fake may convince the average lay person, someone who's well educated on Shakespeare's works (and Early Modern English/Late Middle English) would spot it as a fraud right away. One of my favorite examples of things that ppl consistently get wrong about Early Modern English is thee/thou vs you. Ppl either replace all instances of "you" with "thee/thou" or they (wrongly) assume that "thee/thou" used to be the formal you. "Thee/thou" was the informal you and "you" was the formal - we ended up dropping the informal entirely and just sticking with the formal.
I recently had a conversation with a Christian and he swore to me that the bible was the most read book in all of history. I asked him where he got that idea from and his response was "it's a fact." I said ok, let's think about this. There are 1.4 billion Chinese. They all went to elementary school. So they all read their elementary school mathbook. That's 1.4 billion reads a year. Let's just go back 100 years. That's 140 billion reads of the Chinese mathbook. There hasn't been a 100 billion reads of the bible in all history, let alone the last 100 years. 90% of Christians have never even read the bible. They just sit there and have the guy on stage cherry-pick quotes and explain it to them.
Depends how you define the record. The most printed book is probably Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung, because the Chinese government mass-produced it in ridiculous numbers - at least six and a half billion, enough to out-print the Bible. But that's printed, not read or sold. The most sold book /is/ the Bible - Guiness determined that. But as you point out, the actual readership of those sales is in doubt: A lot of people who buy the bible never actually read it. The most read book? I imagine you're right, it's probably one of the standard texts used in education in China. Specifically, whichever one has been in use the longest. The readership figure for that will be far, far more than the sold or printed figure, as schoolbooks are passed down from year-group to year-group and will each be read many times over.
@@vylbird8014 "The most sold book /is/ the Bible - Guiness determined that." The most sold book? Sold? Like for a penny? Or a 100 dollars? Who has ever bought a bible? Certainly, nobody in modern history as the Christian Churches have been sponsoring printing and giving them away for about 200 years now. And pre-printing press purchases? Has to be an incredibly small number compared to 1.4 billion Chinese textbooks every year. And what does selling have to do with anything? Do the Chinese buy their textbooks? So, if the Chinese don't buy their textbooks but nevertheless get them and read them, it doesn't count? Buying and selling is a worthless can of worms discussion of a meaningless metric when the claim is the "most read book in history". The point is the ridiculous claims made and passed on by Christians. When you actually fact-check them: Poof! It all vanishes.
Your statement reminds me of when I was in the military I recall China would steal every bit of American technology that they could get but I never recalled them stealing Bibles . So I assumed Bibles had no value to them.
The one thing that woke me up about the bible was the total missing archaeological evidence for King David. I wondered why was this great empire in the Levant lacked coins, seals, letters from foreign empires like the Egyptians, Assyrians and others. Where was the great king in history?
I mean, there's the Tel Dan inscription, so he may well have been a real king, but the narrative of a grand united kingdom stretching form Egypt to the Euphrates is almost certainly grossly exaggerated.
@@HolyKoolaid It mentions a house of David but we have to remember that David is an evolution of Beloved so it entirely possible that it not a name of a King but a title.
I was absolutely fascinated with ancient biblical history. I poured over the OT even being raised a mormon. The contradictions and the inconsistencies were intriguing to me. Despite Mormons knowing very very little about the OT and me getting dismissed by my teachers and leaders (who are all volunteers in the mormon church and obviously know nothing) I still found it so fascinating I wanted to go to school to learn more about it. As a mormon missionary I was chastised for studying the OT in my personal study time and told to focus on the book of mormon. My knowledge of the histories and theories of the history lead me to lose my believe that the Bible was inspired in any way. And I am incredibly grateful I have not go to school for OT studies. *edit: also I am NOT a mormon anymore. ( I consider myself an Apathiest.)
I'm curious, could you elaborate on being grateful not having gone to school to studie the Old Testament? I'm thinking, is it related to a general aversion towards higher studies, and if so: what are your reasoning behind it? Or, has it to do with OT studies being taught primarily - or solely - at religiously affiliated institutions? Or is there some other reason behind it? I hope me asking doesn't come off as confrontational as that is in no way my intent: I read your comment and gave it a like because ... well .. never mind, that one's kind of obvious, right? ;) But I couldn't really "decipher" that last (or rather next to last - last if excluding the edit) part. It sounds to me, given your fascination with the topic, that going deeper into the subject would be right up your ally, but instead you're not just not regretting, or glad, or even just grateful, but "incredibly grateful" ... I don't know, but that just peeked my interest. Now, this is just me asserting things and I could of course be completely wrong, but I'm guessing (or presupposing) you're in the US - I'm not. I'm Scandinavian - Swedish to be exact. And if I'm correct and you are in fact in the US, then not only is there a huge difference when it comes to religion and religiosity between our two countries: We are a very secularized country and have been for about half a century or so (gradually more and more over the years of course) - even as a small child in the early 80's, being a believing Christian was very much out of the norm, and nowadays we rank in the top 3 least religious countries in the world (full disclosure, I've seen rankings where we're ranked as 4 so let's say top 3 to top 5 depending on how the question's formulated). There's also a huge difference between us and the US when it comes to the educational system: e.g all education up to and including university, is completely free: at university level you pay for course literature, and lunch (if you have lectures spanning over the day so that lunch outside of the home's needed). Anyway. All that just to give some background in case the answer to my question is something that should be obvious and apparent to anyone. Which it still might be - there's also the possibility that I'm just ... well, the simplest word would be "stupid", I guess. Or, there may of course just be an issue of language barrier. Either way, I won't go on as we're heading deep into ramling territory - if we're not already there, so: Take Care, Stay Safe, and Stay Sane Cheers!
I feel like the teaching of the inerrancy of the bible by fundamentalists/ evangelicals has been the downfall of the faith for many because once you pull that thread the whole belief system unravels. That was what started my deconstruction.
I am delighted that your RUclips channels both exist. I have made it a practice not to get into it with evangelical apologists. They are not coming from a place of honest inquiry, so not worth the bother. However, I find ancient history and biblical criticism fascinating. Love this stuff!
Daniel's supposed accurate prophecy was my last barrier away from belief to atheism. Once I learned about the mistakes in there it was a wrap for Christianity. Especially all the end times prophecies which rely on it so tightly.
The belief in End Times is arrogant, conceited & prideful. The believers would deny their own children life. Kind of like Abraham planning to kill his son. These times are NOT THE END TIMES. The gullible who believe they were born in the end times are deluded. People have been saying their time is the end times for Tousands of years. All were wrong!
I like how the professor knew going to John Hopkins would change his mind. I feel like this is the case when people receive a non-christian biased education.
This is one of the concerns about the rise of charter schools. Which is at least partly because US schools are so poorly funded, particularly in areas with a small tax base.
I'm a Christian and I definitely enjoyed this content. It never ceases to amaze and disgust me that despite all of the evidence, a lot of church folks still think that the Bible trumps all of it It's very ignorant and disrespectful 😊
@@Carlos-sr8km Lol! You're as gullible as so many in the church. The Bible was written by humans, and humans aren't perfect. Second, you're in no position to tell me if I am a Christian or not. All I see with you is someone who thinks that one piece of religious literature is the only thing that's true True is different for different people. No one book can determine all of that
9:10 How are you getting this interpretation? The text is pretty clear how Joseph was sold into Egypt.. Ishmaelites and Midianites were the same thing. It doesn't say anywhere that the Midianites rescued Joseph from the cistern.. what are you talking about?
In the New Testament, there are places where people ask Jesus who the greatest prophet was. As a kid I always thought it was strange. How could one prophet be "better" than another if they were all speaking words directly from God?
"Working backwards from your conclusion," which is "the Bible is the divinely inspired and inerrant Word of God," seems to be standard operating procedure for most if not all evangelicals, fundamentalists and Christian apologists. This is so contrary to an honest search for the truth that it boggles my mind how these people delude themselves into believing any of the nonsense that fills the Bible. Thanks for a great conversation!
The craziest thing is, you ask any Torah scholar and they've always known it was just a book of fables. Jews have always taught it as a book of fables than actual history. 😂
People looking for excuses to remain in theirs sinful nature... Brethren, repent and be converted, so that you will be saved from damnation. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Kingdom of God 🔊
The Bible is not a reliable historical source because it does not meet the standard criteria of source reliability used by historians. The Bible is not, as many believers assume, eye witness testimony. Reliable sources are generally based on authors who were eye witnesses to an event (i.e. it is a primary source). Since any particular source may be fabricating their story, multiple independent sources are usually required for confidence. Establishing the lack of author biases, including religious motivations, is also necessary if a work is to be read at face value. The Bible satisfies none of these requirements. Based on historical and archaeological research, there are known historical inaccuracies in the Bible. The Bible is considered Mythological by most historians. Historians know the Gospels are largely or entirely Myths because they share the same characteristics in that they are an apparently normal story except: The text is structured to convey an underlying meaning, usually to convey some Political or Value System, Using Symbols that are familiar the intended audience. Refers to or retells other myths and stories but often some aspects are changed to make a specific point. Historical improbabilities, occurrence of miracles or people acting unrealistically. Lack of corroborating evidence. People do more research on their Cars and Homes they buy. But not on the religion they live life by... Blind Obedience is a Dangerous Thing... Christianity may be considered a religion, but it was actually developed and used as a system of MIND CONTROL to produce Slaves that believed God decreed their Slavery. DOING REAL RESEARCH WILL SHOW YOU IT'S ALL BEEN A LIE... And “NO” you can't use the Bible to prove the Bible. That's not how “TRUTH” works. That's using a book of LIE'S to tell false TRUTHS...
All historical literary sources are biased (as are all modern ones). It's the job of the historian to tease out the facts from the embellishments and slanders.
I can't escape the ultimate conclusion of all this. Every denomination claims every other denomination has an incorrect interpretation. How can we know what any interpretation should be when no one has an original of any scripture? How are we supposed to believe the most important being in the universe sent the most important message in the universe using possibly the most fallible method ever?
it's easy son of god came to earth to establish a Church one church and only church that is 2000 thausend year old is holly apostolic chatolic church .see you don't have to be a geinius really .hope it helps.ex militant atheist here .god bless you and Jesus loves you .
@@antepolic4232 That in no way addresses my point. All Christian denominations claim the same core scriptures despite their individual additions and/or deletions. And no one has an original of any of these ancient texts. How can you trust an ancient scroll to deliver what is claimed to be the most important message when you: A. don't know the original text? B. can't even agree on the message?
As an ex-Mormon, I am fascinated with comparing what Daniel did, and what Joseph Smith did. Joseph Smith, in the Book of Mormon, did exactly what you said the book of Daniel did. He got some things from long ago right, some of them wrong, when he gets up to Columbus, the American Revolution, and the Great Awakening, he gets a lot of things right, and then everything that comes after the Book of Mormon went to print is just vague, and often wrong. Another fun part about being Mormon, I was taught often and frequently that Tyre was destroyed, and no longer exists, because all of my Sunday School and Seminary teachers were just Stay At Home Moms, who just assumed the bible was correct.
The most annoying argument I faced when I first confronted my grandparents about the accuracy of the bible... was that the "futuristic knowledge" was basically God just whispering to Moses the secrets of the world. Because god is omnipotent. The idea about the book of daniel feels like people who believe it don't understand that people can also write fantastical stories based on what they know. We do write historical fiction these days a LOT. What's to say that we haven't written historical fiction back then too?
Thank you for this informed, relaxed dialog between Dr Bowen and Josh whom both appear very knowledgeable on this subject. I found the discussion relied a lot on specifics with reason and evidence without appearing pretentious. What I often hear from the religious right is the exact opposite e.g. very general, vague, and very pretentious rhetoric. So thanks again for not being that!
Hi, I've enjoyed and benefitted from your presentation with Josh Bowen and just been listening to his series. Into my feed popped a video by the Associates for Biblical Research titled "Daniel-Prophet or Pretender?". Have to say that these guys are really deceptive in their arguments for placing the writing of Daniel back in the 6th C BC. I'd have commented on their video, but, no surprise, they've turned off comments. To me, their key deception was to state that since the Aramaic is dated to at least the 5th C BC, therefore so is the whole book - no mention that the second part is Hebrew and that the textual argument for a 165BC writing of this part is based on the Hebrew, which is where the prophesies are. There's also a 2nd hand quote from Sibley Towner in the "Daniel-Prophet or Pretender?" which I'd love to check up, as I suspect it's been mined and lifted out of context.
The prophecy is that bad things will happen if you DON'T repent. So it still holds true. That's why Jonah was so upset. Because he thought the people being spared made him look like a fool.
As has been said MANY times, the quickest way to atheisms is by studying the bible. It is why in the middle ages it was a capital offense to translate the bible into the vernacular and people were BURNED AT THE STAKE for attempting it. The church was concerned that without learned men, of COURSE it was men, filtering the bible into simple precepts, the layette would get things wrong and develop heretical beliefs and misunderstand its teachings. Clearly they were correct in that assumption as we can see so tragically in the United States downward spiral into christo-facist theocracy.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Want to dive deeper on how we know Daniel was written after the events it "prophesies?" Check out Digital Hammurabi's full playlist on dating the book of Daniel (and make sure to subscribe while you're over there): ruclips.net/video/cxqLM9Pu0U0/видео.html
When is the response to David falk coming ?
@JeSuis ASatirists We need to know how the Bible says Pi = 3!
Any chance he'll do an audio-book? I've gotten to a point in my life where I don't have time to read a physical book over 200 pages, but I can throw an audio-book in the background while I work out, mow, or take care of the kids. This is definitely one I want to listen to.
@@s1140285 Seth Andrew’s narrated volume one and he is reading through volume two now! I’ll let everyone know as soon as it’s out 🙌
CHRISTIANITY is a Joke
Love the way Josh gives decent apologetic arguments a fair chance. It really raises his credibility when he's dismantling problematic arguments.
Yeah so glad he and others can do that! I can't, and often want to just go for the neck and shake until the stupid falls out of them!
Exactly what "decent apologetic arguments?
@@chefbarona3052 I think what defines a "decent" argument is the honesty of the person making it. An honest person making a bad argument can at least start a decent discussion, if they're open to new info.
@@Bob-of-Zoid - the stupid is secured with Gorilla Glue. It won’t just shake off!
@@andybeans5790
The problem is we have heard all the atheists arguments against Christianity. The "new" information is just recycled arguments from the past repackaged in different wrapping paper.
I smile every time you say "B.S. in Religion or Theology."
I just wanna say thank you for your videos. I was so afraid of burning in hell because of the things my family told me over the years that made me a depressed and sad person. Your channel has opened my eyes to none of what they say is true and that I was brainwashed into thinking all of that. My family is Russian orthodox. Hardcore religious. I told them I don’t believe in any of it anymore. They don’t talk to me anymore which is their loss cause I’m a pretty cool person 😎
I'm sorry your family has shunned you. That's really sad. But I'm glad I've been able to help you overcome the fear of hell.
Madam Lt. I've lost friends because of the same thing.
@@lindadavis5668 it’s devastating to know that your family loves an inanimate object (icon) more than you because of their religious beliefs 😞 my grandmother told me straight up that the icon I was given to me as a child was worth more than me. That’s when I had had enough. That’s not the love of a family. That’s a complete brainwashed person from birth. I don’t blame my gma cause that’s all she’s ever known but her condemning me because I ask questions she doesn’t have the answers to is just ridiculous. I have my husband/ kids and his family who are not insane people. They are the kinds of people I wish I had grown up with and am so great full to have found them :)
I remember in Catholic Church as a child thinking "this can't be real, this sounds like a fairy tale". Everything I have learned since has reinforced that. A woman once told me years ago "our task in life is to undo the damage that our parents did to us". Even in the best case damage is done. And rarely is it the best case.
Someone who shares your DNA is your relative, not necessarily your family.
We choose our families.
I betcha Moses didn't write the stuff about his own death and burial.
Wht not? Bob Fosse did a whole movie about his own death ("All That Jazz"), several years before he actually died. Fictionalized, of course, but with the real people from Fosse's life; his girlfriend, for example, played the girlfriend in the movie.
Yeah, but that's the laziest argument on that topic. When people say he wrote the Pentateuch, I presume it's nearly universally accepted that they mean except for the last few verses. Or, you know, that he wrote the whole thing using one or more scribes, who then added the last few verses after he was gone.
There's all kinds of textual reasons to know they weren't written by a single person (or team) and also not written in 1200 BC. The "Deuteronomy describes Moses's death, lol" argument is the least interesting or convincing.
What? Heretic! (/s)
Moses correctly prophesied his demise.
The only believable thing is Moses getting close to the burning bush. Must of been some good herb.
Outstanding testimony I can relate to profoundly. The most startling thing when learning everything you once believed to be false is learning of the availability and amplitude of information that proves beyond a reasonable doubt the Bible to be false. One sits stunned and asks “after so many years of tireless study how did I not happen sooner upon this information?” Never underestimate the power of indoctrination or the religious community’s ability to hide, suppress and misrepresent information!
@S Gloval Maybe you could actually watch the video you are commenting on, eh?
The Bible isn't false. Your understanding of what it says is false. Nothing said in this video was accurate to what these prophecies were talking about.
@@xenophon598 expound pls. Just one example.
@S Gloval archeology, radiometric dating, linguistic analysis, biology, astronomy, history, ethics, philosophy, chemistry, church history, canonization, history of doctrine, anthropology,... those I can list off the top of my head, but clearly you don’t take science very seriously to ask such a question. At the very least a believer should be able to acknowledge there are evidences against the veracity of biblical accounts. Lack thereof not only betrays an observation of science but objectivity and intellectual honesty.
@S Gloval saying the Bible is false does not mean there is no god for one. As to the rest of this, is this really the line of argument you were going with with your initial comment (that is the order of the universe bit)? If not you’re moving the goal post which is a dishonest way for having any discussion and a conversation about ethics are in order. Whatever mysteries the origin of the universe holds, and the order therein, observable orders have proven themselves reliable and show much evidence to the point of proving “beyond a reasonable doubt” many biblical claims and events are not true as rendered or represented in the text. I notice you sidestepped my comment of how an honest believer must at the very least acknowledge there are evidences against the veracity of the Bible. Notice I don’t side-step yours, though I find them quite tawdry- cosmic and epistemological skepticism, seriously?
This video was absolute gold! Your editing is phenomenal In this video. Dr. Josh is such a thorough academic.
ESTCF!!
That stands for the Top-LGBT-Coverage i know of and can recommend you warmly: Emma Thorne, Some More News, Telltale Fireside, Creaky Blinder and Forrest Valkai.
People looking for excuses to remain in theirs sinful nature... Brethren, repent and be converted, so that you will be saved from damnation.
Jesus Christ is the only way to the Kingdom of God 🔊
@@BroneduChannel Completely subjective
This guy has already had an astonishing career and he's young as hell. Very based.
Such a well-done video. The animations make it so much more engaging and easier to follow. (It also makes technical scholarship less boring). Had to have taken a lot of time and work. Thank you!
What an awesome video!
I'm an Israeli Jewish atheist, and for me, this is like striking gold.
Dr. Bowen, Koolaid, thank you both so much.
I adore 'Some More News' Intent to tackle Problems. Reminds me of Knowing Better, Illuminaughtii and Telltale Fireside.
Holy Koolaid, also.
Imagine i could ever stop recommending them to my fellow Cody-Fans... i cant imagine
it myself, but feel free to.
I'm curious about one thing. You say you are a "jewish atheist". What exactly do you mean with that? Is it that you considered yourself jewish before losing your faith? Or is it some sort of ethnic identification? Something else?
@@tranquilthoughts7233 Jews consider themselves a "people." It's kind of like ethnicity because it relates to our customs and history which CAN include religious beliefs but also the practice of certain customs or eating certain foods simply because they are traditional. It's not like ethnicity because there are different ethnic variations among Jews, the most common being Ashkenazic and Sephardic (among others). These two groups have different food traditions, & language pronounciation. Anyway, one can be jewish without being religious. I'll blow you're mind and tell you that my favorite rabbi (who passed away many years ago) was a skeptic 🙂, very rational, possibly an atheist but definitely agnostic.
@@VintageRitz interesting.
No, there must be a distinction between religion (rather sect of the Abrahamism religion) and nation and state. For the latter there’re Hebrew and Israelite.. or Judahite or Judean which three contrast with the other Hebrew Samaritan. Likewise Hebrews aren’t the only Semites, a race, but contrast with [As]Syrians. NonJudaist Jew is a ocsymòron like atheist Kristian-actually there are no Kristians but Petrist, papist, mishmash, or Paulist Hæretics who do what Gospels expressly oppose.
I LOVE the added cartoons and text. When your brain tends to wander a bit, seeing the cute visuals and text imprints the ideas in my brain so much more. Great job!
I agree, but I am just worried about one thing. The CCTV camera in the background keeps going back to Josh - does someone not trust him to leave the Assyriuan statuary behind when he's done? Cartoon theft is still theft. I am kidding of course, I thought this was a really erudite discussion of the subject and very much enjoyed it. Just leave the relics behind on your way out Dr. Bowen.
What started my deconversion was a little different. While access to information helped, it was actually being exposed to absolutely ludicrous beliefs that made me re-examine alot of my own beliefs.
My father was unironically becoming a flat earther. The complete insanity and realization that someone can honestly believe in something so demonstrably false scared me. It made me question if I had any views as insane as that.
Choosing to abandon reality for make believe. Sad and scary.
It's sad that we're in a period where an increasing number of people believe in demonstrably false topics for emotional, religious or ideological reasons.
Question everything. If you were raised as a flat earther, the idea that the world is a globe would be just as ludicrous.
@@chrisbarboza9314 Most flerfers were not raised that way. They abandoned science for ideological reasons and a kind of naive realism that convinced them that their human senses were more reliable than all of the technology designed to surpass the limits of human natural perception. They are demonstrably wrong and many of them know that.
@@zemorph42 lol maybe you should give your 'naive' human senses more credit
Yes, the more education you get, especially about the bible, archeology, and textual criticism, the further you get from your childhood indoctrination in religion.
Yes, the more time you spend reading the bible the better chance you have of understanding what God did on your behalf to reconcile sinful man back to Him.
Or you can listen to what the world says about God.
@@John-uk8eo Or you can just ask the questions yourself: who's God is the God, who created God, how many contradictions and impossibilities are listed in the bible, why does prayer fail on par with the statistical average, why did the god of the bible STOP "revealing" himself, and apparently only did that to the Hebrews anyway, and so on and so forth.
@@justaguy6100
No one created God. No contradictions. Prayers to God always are answered in one of two ways.
Yes or no. Some prayers are incredibly arrogant prayers...like asking for an attractive wife or rich husband. Asking for immediate gratification as if God were some genie whose only purpose is to run around making wishes come true..
This shows an irreverent attitude towards God. Probably the result of a suspect religious background where God is thought of as a butler as opposed to God.
@@JW-ri9oy
So basically what you are saying is...
If it is on the internet, it must be true.
@@John-uk8eo "Prayers to God are always answered" tell that to some grieving Xtian parents who prayed their hearts out over a child with a terminal disease, or visit the Xtian sections of southern Africa where children pray while they starve to death, or are pressed into service for warlords. No my friend, NOTHING fails like prayer.
I have a few things in common with the guest. I was also fundamentalist Christian and was also in that religion for about 25 years. The difference being that I wasn’t raised that way, but converted independently at the age of 12. I also went to college with the intention of going into the ministry, but my focus was apologetics and counseling. I also deconverted, but to Wicca rather than atheism. I began to lose my faith for a number of reasons, but one of the biggest was I realized the true nature of apologetics. It really comes down to trying to reconcile the irreconcilable, excuse the inexcusable, and attempt, through dishonest reinterpretation, to square the cognitive dissonance the inconsistencies in the Bible create. I started seeing the mess for what it really was and just couldn’t keep lying to myself, pretending it could all be explained away. I had to reevaluate everything I thought I believed and found it all lacking substance.
And you fell into witchcraft as an alternative.. yea you really turned over a new leaf.. sounds like you were and are, still deceived and never had a firm grasp on anything.. only rehashing your own misunderstood interpretation of Man's spin off version of a Holy book. Maybe.. just maybe.. man is not meant to understand everything that we encounter. Such as the supernatural.. but through faith interpret these events with the Holy spirit. Or maybe we should just give up and lay with the devil, as most in this comment thread have decided was thier "truth" in weakness. Professing themselves to be wise.. they became fools.
One of the bravest things one can do is to admit to YOURSELF you are wrong, especially. when your wrongness caused irreversible harm to others.
Many people rather lie to themselves for the rest of their lives than being so honest to themselves.
Too many US myths about the lone hero that is always right in his gut-feelings and his outright self-justice against all laws and regulations.
That theme is so persistent that people think that is reality, that their own identity depends on being exactly like that.
@@feedsravens4655 - I didn’t grow up in the US, but in England we still get those Lone Hero stories (like James Bond). Still, humility comes a tad easier to many Europeans. Probably because we don’t have that fiery “my rights” independent streak, and we’re more accustomed to cooperating with others. I’ve never understood people who stubbornly refuse to admit they’re wrong. You can’t set a problem right until you acknowledge it exists.
@@hollyhartwick3832 Totally agree.
I am a germ(an), yes, we experienced what can happen when a country is methodically lured into believing it is supreme. We learn about the tiny, seeminly innocent early signs. About the appeal, about the aesthethics. About the psychology.
The US people only learn about the screaming madman they won over.
Never how easy the METHODS can be adapted to another society- like theirs, their glorious "God's own country". How religious tropes can be easily integrated.
Love your last sentence. To think about WHAT you think and WHY, what is the origin of that thought, from me or just gobbled up carelessly, - that takes effort, training and courage.
And to admit to yourself you were wrong, that your error produced irreversible harm to others and you have to stand to that - epic.
But you're okay with Wicca?
The cartoon avatars make it much easier to focus on the message no matter how dense and long. Don't understand this effect but am thankful for it.
Medo-persian empire. This reminds me of my World History professor back in my freshman year. He kept alternating between "Median Empire" and "Persian Empire," until someone asked him what the difference was.
He replied, "There's no difference, really. One man’s Mede is another man’s Persian."
I enjoyed that class.
Lol! Clever
As a recovering former Christian cult victim, I find this kind of content utterly refreshing.
lol, try reading some serious scholars like Kenneth Kitchen's Reliability of the Old Testament before you make aliens think we're all devoid of critical thinking like you, Bowen, and the rest
Feel you brother
This rocks. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. More like this pls
Have you seen my interview with Dr. Andrew Henry. It's very similar to this one, but different topics.
@@HolyKoolaid of course! I love all of the historicity of the Bible stuff… and there is remarkably little content on RUclips about it. Although Yale has an entire course on the subject on RUclips!
@@Andrewbreeze316 yes yales videos especially in the old testament are amazing!
@Too-Much-Information what does this have to do with sin
@Too-Much-Information oh you're fine I was just a bit confused. God bless
"BS in religion from Liberty University" - I always wondered what BS stands for in those evangelical universities - I assume it's "bullshit".
And maybe you have heard what the other degree abbreviations are sometimes translated as. After a person gets their BS they can go on a get an MS--More Shlt and Phd-- Piled Higher and Deeper!! And for the really ambitious academic there is finally PGBS or Post Graduate Bull Shlt!! 😂🤣
Having said that I very much respect the well educated professionals a thousand times more then the evangelical bible thumpers or the conspiracy theory hacks!
Yeah, it makes my actual BS seem less meaningful.
Of course, I made fun of my bullshit in mechanical engineering long before I found out you could also get a BS in BS.
A BS from UC Berkeley means the same just without the religion nonsense.
there is an old joke : a Black congregation member asks a pastor: reverend what does BS on diploma mean ? pastor answered-you know what bs means ? yeah, bull shit, right. Then, what does MS mean? ;well, answers the man of cloth : more of the same ,OK. But what PhD means - just piled higher and deeper!
@@frankiewally1891 I think I missed something, what does the skin color of the guy have to do with anything? Tbh, told this way it makes it seem like a racist joke but I get the impression it wasn't intended like that so I'm sitting here trying to figure out what I'm missing.
Please be patient with me, I'm autistic, ADHD & some seizures over the last few years have really screwed with my memory & cognition. I intend absolutely no offense with anything I say.
It’s great to have you two together! Josh was so clear and convincing. I want more.
I just want to say thank you to Holy Koolaid, Myth Vision, and Harmonic atheist for putting great content out. I’m recovering from religious abuse and it’s been easier with these channels. Better than going to the psych ward...
Indeed, anything is better than that torture. (I was put in for lesbianism 🙄)
Sorry to hear that. Prayers and keep your head up
@@tiffanyeyoung1800 Prayers?😂😂
I wish you a happy continuous recovery. Greetings from France
I guess agreeing with you by saying “amen” would be in bad taste? Lol
Appreciate debunking of Ezekiel. As a Fundamentalist, I repressed the thought that Ezekiel sounded like a fruitcake. Now, I freely proclaim, "Ezekiel sounds like a fruitcake!!!" Feels good to be free.
Ive always thought it was all so dumb, had to pretend i believed as a kid to avoid punishment. I enjoy my freedom to express myself so much now
@@andymatheson82Isn't FREEDOM wonderful?!" 😅❤
I can't believe I'm watching this animated conversation with such rapt attention. Excellent video and wonderful interview.
Thanks to both. Very interesting topic.
4:10 yup, similar thing happened to me, but it was about Moses and the Exodus. That's why fundamentalists HAVE TO defend a literal interpretation of the Bible tooth and nail or else the whole house of cards falls apart
Reading the old testament will make many atheist or agnostic.... Probably why so many churches avoid it now.
This happened at my church when I asked the pastor why couldn't god find Adam and Cainwhen they hid? Isn't god all powerful?
@@SnarkyTattertots-su2xt this is so stupid, God doesn't intervene and allows choices to be make and only responds to results, this is core stuff... find a better church
I hope Josh makes an audiobook version of his books, he has a great voice and for those of us with terrible attention disorders, auditory sources are preferable.
He has audiobooks, but they're narrated by Seth Andrews. And when his new book is released, he'll have an audio version as well.
aka all latter-half millenials and after
really makes ya think.
People looking for excuses to remain in theirs sinful nature... Brethren, repent and be converted, so that you will be saved from damnation.
Jesus Christ is the only way to the Kingdom of God 🔊
This was awesome, Thomas! We love Dr Josh! And thanks for the graphics and the chapter-&-verse visuals.
Excellent program. I entirely approve of the academic and intellectual honesty.
Very interesting stuff. When I was 17-18 years, I read about 95% the bible and became agnostic about the whole thing. Contradictons, misogynism and the blatant violence was that throw me off from the "good God" idea. My relatives were and still are very hardcore Lutheran. More I got older, more I got these "are you kidding me" moments with them when they came to me to speak about what great things God has given them or their "good (always nameless) friend" "yet again". To me it started to sound more like "Santa gave me presents and tooth fairy too. I'm so lucky..." And I'm thinking "coincidence, luck and you forgetting that you tried like 100 times that before and finally got it right...". I have no problems if some one believe in God, the Great Pumpking or PowerBall when they keep it them selves without harassing or manipulate other people. I've been watching your videos for some time now and I have found them very informative and well thought. i have to check Bowen´s books! Keep up the good work!
Have you any exemple of « contradictions » and « Mysoginism » « violence » and others ?
@@holyromankingdomofthepoles7027 Here's one- the numerous commands by the Bible that women should submit and shouldn't be teaching or preaching to men. That's something in the Bible, buddy.
1 Timothy 2:11-12
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Ephesians 5:22
1 Corinthians 11:5
Need I go on?
@@9skyman945 Dear 9skyman9. 1 Timothy is an authentic letter of Paul the blessed apostle to Timothy, the first verse you sent me is to read in context because it’s a personnal letter. 1 Timothy 11-12 is obviously not universal because Paul permitted Aquila and Priscilla who were elders to teach young women in rome, yet Priscilla was a women. And Paul knew there were women highly regarded in the church. What Paul is adressing is a particular case. The best hypothesis is that he was addressing preacher women who were speaking in tongues in the church, and prophecying, as this is addressed by sources. But at least we can know by confidence that Paul isn’t saying that for all women. Also for the second verse, many scholars like Joseph Fitzmyer point out these two verses (34 and 35) is Paul actually quoting the Corinthians and responding to them, he employs the technique in other places like 1 Corinthians 13:8-1. And he also confirm women are allowed to speak in churches (1 Corinthians 11;5) 1 Corinthians 14:39 and Galatians 3:28 and Romans 16:6. Also Ephesians 5:22 is Paul addressing the greeks , Paul has been admitting many times he adapts his teachings to other cultures like in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23. In fact Paul doesn’t care if a society is male dominated because he couldn’t change that, but he cared more about people’s heart and how to regulate their morality, when Paul is addressing the Greek people obviously he is going to respect their culture, he admitted it himself, so this is not a command for every women in the world, but the command of women being submitted is true and pretty universal, unlike “the man is the leader of the wife” because Man and women mutually submit to each other, the man lays down his life for her and works all day, while the women bears him a child. Maybe you think it is sexist they mutually respect each other. And again in 1 Corinthians 11:5 Paul is not forcing women of the entire world to cover up their head or to shave them off, he is using Reductio ad absurdum and speaking on the tone of irony. Basically this is supposed to mean women have to dress modestly according to their cultural standards, nothing more simple. You need to work on your interpretation. Have a good day and be blessed ❤️✝️🙏
@@holyromankingdomofthepoles7027 they really need work on the interpretation indeed....it'd be sad to loose your soul because you didn't find answers but tried to explain in your own words and draw false conclusions
@@LilBunny6077 can you eventually rephrase your text ?
I was eight when that dubious flood myth destroyed my faith. Precocious I was.
Edit: thank you both so much. That was a great interview.
Did it for me at a very young age, no history or linguistics understanding needed. It was the mentally acrobatic answers I got for questioning it that confirmed my suspicion that it was total BS. I got way more truth and life lessons from Donald Duck, and Micky mouse cartoons than anything in the bible!
The flood was local. Your pastor destroyed your faith, not the Bible.
I was in my 50's.
@@xenophon598 so the Bible is wrong then?
All children are natural atheists until they are brain-washed and terrorized into repeating and believing nonsense.
So, I left the faith for EXACTLY this reason. After studying this for just a while I was like:
“Oh, the Bible was written by men for men. Alright, I’m out.”
I have been MUCH happier and more loving since.
That's because the enemy has left you alone. You're no longer in the spiritual warfare.
@@Agueybana787 😂 that was a good one! 😂 Thanks, I needed that! 💜
@@profoundpronoun4712
The same thing happened to my niece.
@@Agueybana787 is it because satan is not bothering him anymore that he is noticing the mistakes and illogical things in the bible? That makes no sense. It is a deflection and minimalisation of the reason why he left the religion. Same thing happened to me a year ago. If the bible is Gods word it should be perfect. If it isn't Gods word then it holds no meaning.
that was awesome. please have Dr. Josh back for another interview!
I like the miniature Ishtar gate door trim, very cute. It would be even funnier if it were used as a fireplace, complete with logs & grate, andirons, a set of styled fire tools, etc.
Ahh, that would have been a phenomenal idea, and not too hard too pull off. I should have done that. That's, very creative.
This episode was stupendous!! You are both such deep wells of knowledge. Your guest is a great speaker, with minute details and information flowing off his tongue and said in a way that makes it easily understandable.
I sat, rapt, through the entire video.
I love Josh's point about how interesting it is that failed prophecy was left in. We have no way of telling how many failed prophecy were excised through the ages
Well they can tell to some extent: compare current versions of the text to the older ones and to the oldest ones we have, and any differences would be apparent. It'll leave a gap between the oldest surviving text and the time the text was first written/compiled, hence they can tell only "to some extent".
@@TheMCCraftingTablethe thing is, the oldest surviving texts we have are the Dead Sea Scrolls and the distance in time between them and the prophets is vast. Hundreds of years at minimum for some. That is a vast period in which texts could be re-written, amended, destroyed, etc...
As an atheist named after a book of the Bible who gave up Christianity long ago, I do have to give a shout-out to the Christian churches who raised me (Methodists and Catholics, mostly) for not only being honest about the fragmentary nature of the Bible, but in fact teaching me all about the J E D P authorship of the Pentateuch as well as the contradictions/textual weavings of Job and even the non-canonical gospels.
I'm not saying things were perfect--my Catholic high school did try to teach the history of religion as sort of a drive towards the truth of monotheism, with examples like Akenaten pointed at almost like "see? They were getting closer and closer!" But there was no insistence that I disbelieve my own eyes when reading the Bible. And thus, no "if one thing falls, so fall it all."
Despite the huge political force behind evagelical Christianinty, and how in-your-face they are with Ark Encounters and Jack Chick comics and all that crap, the truth is that most Christians are able to have faith AND see the Bible as a spiritual rather than a literal book that claims to be infallible and written directly by Moses and Aaron or whoever.
The truth is, I still DID lose my faith. And I'll be honest that those non-canonical gospels did play a role (because it's like, so Constantine picked a bunch of dudes and they chose gospels out of a hat to be in the Bible? That's weird!). But I think the bigger problem was just how BORING church was.
I see the problem as somebody fairly recently getting the bright idea that the Bible is a literal book that claims to be infallible and written directly by Moses and Aaron or whoever, and teaching that to their young people. I also read the apocrypha and the non-canonical books, and that was interesting, too. As an Episcopalian who is one of those "most Christians" who still have faith, I was taught from the start that the Bible has a fragmentary spiritual narrative.
I do see a problem with Constantine deciding to co-opt Christianity and set up Roman Catholicism a bit too much like the Roman military.
I think I'm still in the church because I was told that one of reasons for having the church was to learn how to be with and work with other people - the loud, the shy, the odd, the very conventional, the angry, the sad, the anti-intellectual, the pedantic, the righteous, the people recovering from really bad places in their life, the hugely boring who enjoy that and the sparklingly lovely who also still have problems... and work together to help others recover from the disasters that have hit them, as well as to pray and worship God, and if we have the gift of music, to raise wonderful music to God.
It's that you Deuteronomy?
People looking for excuses to remain in theirs sinful nature... Brethren, repent and be converted, so that you will be saved from damnation.
Jesus Christ is the only way to the Kingdom of God 🔊
@@BroneduChannel no thanks! I'd rather do cocaine off some guy's naked back.
@0.17. Just gotta say, “BS in religion” was priceless. 😝
Wow! What an amazing watch...wish you guys could go on and on!
0:17 insert sound bite of Beavis and Butthead chuckling to “BS in religion …bs…”
Preach on Brother Beavis!
Interesting what triggers a person to question their entire belief system... I had a specific moment reading the Bible. Found a contradiction in Matthew/Luke and I was over the edge. I was done after 20 years in the cult. It was like a switch and a veil was lifted.
What contradiction did you find in Matthew/Luke? I’m genuinely interested.
@@Bebopeepprobably the “Bring a Spear” contradiction
Great interview and loved the first volume. Have it on audible and highly recommend it.
Apparently Seth Andrews is also going to narrate the audio book for volume 2. :)
@@HolyKoolaid No, really? You mean Seth "The Voice" Andrews? Wow!!! Watch out James Earl Jones! (
When I was a kid, my mom got me a copy of Erich von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods. Putting the ancient astronaut hypothesis aside, the book put me in touch with an ancient world that had existed for thousands of years, and which had never heard of Jews, their god(s), their religious books, or even Palestine. I began to read ancient history because of that book. Which made me an Atheist.
Thanks for sharing this conversation, I shared liked and followed them, another book for my wish list! Keep up with the good work 🍁❤️
What's up beautiful
I really appreciate the visual annotations that overlay Dr. Bowen's verbal descriptions, from timelines to epigraphy.
This was the most interesting interview I've ever watched.
I'm glad you liked it. I did a very similar one with Dr. Andrew Henry of Religion for Breakfast which I think you would like too. ruclips.net/video/_fh1n8zoXxo/видео.html
Thank you so much for this, this is outstanding! I'm definitely going to be adding this to my debunking pseudoscience/religious indoctrination playlist! Wish I could afford to pledge on Patreon, but hopefully one day soon!
An excellent episode. I’m excited to hear that you plan to do more episodes of nothing fails like Bible history. Those were my introduction to your channel
Excellent interview questions and nice graphics. Good stuff
"BS in religion" seems pretty accurate
There sure is.
@@jayfredrickson8632 it**
Thanks!
Content like this 😌 worth the wait
Wow! I have to get Volume 1 very soon! I just added it to my cart on Amazon! Thanks for sharing.
Fantastic format and thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.
Fascinating conversation!
Thank you!
Ezekiel predicting the fall of Tyre sounds like evangelical conservatives predicting Trump's re-election because, 'The Lord told them'. 🤣🤣🤣
So true! 😂 "Oh, wait... God actually meant Trump would come back later..."
@@HolyKoolaid Hard to do when you’ve been fully exposed to be a liar and a traitor to your Country and to Democracy itself.
Trump is the Antichrist.
They are still saying he won, I guess if you believe in one lie the rest just fall into place. Faith =. Facts don’t matter.
@@captaintripps8490 you mean like Biden got the most votes in history? If you voted for Biden, you got what you deserve. Funny that now you realize trump was right about many things.
I sure would like a few mean tweets and $1.89 a gallon gas.
Trump didn't lose, America lost. And you're still losing.
Delightful and concise piece! The illustrations help also. I love seeing the Ishtar Gate lurking in the background though, since many a young earth creationist insists the dragons there were literal surviving dinosaurs.
I never thought I be skeptical almost atheist. These videos definitely help me think.
Directly shared it with a good friend who loves Biblical origins studies and also the work on contradictions!
Love your easy to understand explanations!
Thanks for sharing. :)
@@HolyKoolaid ESTCF!!
That stands for the Top-LGBT-Coverage i know of and can recommend you warmly: Emma Thorne, Some More News, Telltale Fireside, Creaky Blinder and Forrest Valkai.
Would be epic if you ever do Shout-Outs to 'em, Koolaid.
Ugh. I’m in Fort Wayne. But was camping out of state and did not get a chance to see you. As always I love your videos.
Oh no! Sorry you couldn't make it. I might be speaking at NanoCon in Nashville later next month, if you're able to make it to that one.
I could listen to Dr. Josh talk about his areas of study all-day/every-day … great interview as well 🍻 here’s to hoping for me of these between these two.
Ppl do try to fake Shakespearean English - and they get it wrong constantly because those grammar rules are basically unknown to the average person. So while the fake may convince the average lay person, someone who's well educated on Shakespeare's works (and Early Modern English/Late Middle English) would spot it as a fraud right away.
One of my favorite examples of things that ppl consistently get wrong about Early Modern English is thee/thou vs you. Ppl either replace all instances of "you" with "thee/thou" or they (wrongly) assume that "thee/thou" used to be the formal you. "Thee/thou" was the informal you and "you" was the formal - we ended up dropping the informal entirely and just sticking with the formal.
I recently had a conversation with a Christian and he swore to me that the bible was the most read book in all of history. I asked him where he got that idea from and his response was "it's a fact." I said ok, let's think about this. There are 1.4 billion Chinese. They all went to elementary school. So they all read their elementary school mathbook. That's 1.4 billion reads a year. Let's just go back 100 years. That's 140 billion reads of the Chinese mathbook.
There hasn't been a 100 billion reads of the bible in all history, let alone the last 100 years. 90% of Christians have never even read the bible. They just sit there and have the guy on stage cherry-pick quotes and explain it to them.
Depends how you define the record. The most printed book is probably Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung, because the Chinese government mass-produced it in ridiculous numbers - at least six and a half billion, enough to out-print the Bible. But that's printed, not read or sold. The most sold book /is/ the Bible - Guiness determined that. But as you point out, the actual readership of those sales is in doubt: A lot of people who buy the bible never actually read it. The most read book? I imagine you're right, it's probably one of the standard texts used in education in China. Specifically, whichever one has been in use the longest. The readership figure for that will be far, far more than the sold or printed figure, as schoolbooks are passed down from year-group to year-group and will each be read many times over.
@@vylbird8014 "The most sold book /is/ the Bible - Guiness determined that."
The most sold book? Sold? Like for a penny? Or a 100 dollars? Who has ever bought a bible? Certainly, nobody in modern history as the Christian Churches have been sponsoring printing and giving them away for about 200 years now. And pre-printing press purchases? Has to be an incredibly small number compared to 1.4 billion Chinese textbooks every year.
And what does selling have to do with anything? Do the Chinese buy their textbooks? So, if the Chinese don't buy their textbooks but nevertheless get them and read them, it doesn't count?
Buying and selling is a worthless can of worms discussion of a meaningless metric when the claim is the "most read book in history".
The point is the ridiculous claims made and passed on by Christians. When you actually fact-check them: Poof! It all vanishes.
Your statement reminds me of when I was in the military I recall China would steal every bit of American technology that they could get but I never recalled them stealing Bibles . So I assumed Bibles had no value to them.
@@vylbird8014 "I imagine you're right" No need to imagine.
It’s time that we let go of this false way of life it’s holding man back from the best we can be
The one thing that woke me up about the bible was the total missing archaeological evidence for King David. I wondered why was this great empire in the Levant lacked coins, seals, letters from foreign empires like the Egyptians, Assyrians and others. Where was the great king in history?
I mean, there's the Tel Dan inscription, so he may well have been a real king, but the narrative of a grand united kingdom stretching form Egypt to the Euphrates is almost certainly grossly exaggerated.
@@HolyKoolaid It mentions a house of David but we have to remember that David is an evolution of Beloved so it entirely possible that it not a name of a King but a title.
I was absolutely fascinated with ancient biblical history. I poured over the OT even being raised a mormon. The contradictions and the inconsistencies were intriguing to me. Despite Mormons knowing very very little about the OT and me getting dismissed by my teachers and leaders (who are all volunteers in the mormon church and obviously know nothing) I still found it so fascinating I wanted to go to school to learn more about it. As a mormon missionary I was chastised for studying the OT in my personal study time and told to focus on the book of mormon.
My knowledge of the histories and theories of the history lead me to lose my believe that the Bible was inspired in any way. And I am incredibly grateful I have not go to school for OT studies.
*edit: also I am NOT a mormon anymore. ( I consider myself an Apathiest.)
I'm curious, could you elaborate on being grateful not having gone to school to studie the Old Testament? I'm thinking, is it related to a general aversion towards higher studies, and if so: what are your reasoning behind it? Or, has it to do with OT studies being taught primarily - or solely - at religiously affiliated institutions? Or is there some other reason behind it?
I hope me asking doesn't come off as confrontational as that is in no way my intent: I read your comment and gave it a like because ... well .. never mind, that one's kind of obvious, right? ;) But I couldn't really "decipher" that last (or rather next to last - last if excluding the edit) part. It sounds to me, given your fascination with the topic, that going deeper into the subject would be right up your ally, but instead you're not just not regretting, or glad, or even just grateful, but "incredibly grateful" ... I don't know, but that just peeked my interest. Now, this is just me asserting things and I could of course be completely wrong, but I'm guessing (or presupposing) you're in the US - I'm not. I'm Scandinavian - Swedish to be exact. And if I'm correct and you are in fact in the US, then not only is there a huge difference when it comes to religion and religiosity between our two countries: We are a very secularized country and have been for about half a century or so (gradually more and more over the years of course) - even as a small child in the early 80's, being a believing Christian was very much out of the norm, and nowadays we rank in the top 3 least religious countries in the world (full disclosure, I've seen rankings where we're ranked as 4 so let's say top 3 to top 5 depending on how the question's formulated). There's also a huge difference between us and the US when it comes to the educational system: e.g all education up to and including university, is completely free: at university level you pay for course literature, and lunch (if you have lectures spanning over the day so that lunch outside of the home's needed).
Anyway. All that just to give some background in case the answer to my question is something that should be obvious and apparent to anyone. Which it still might be - there's also the possibility that I'm just ... well, the simplest word would be "stupid", I guess. Or, there may of course just be an issue of language barrier.
Either way, I won't go on as we're heading deep into ramling territory - if we're not already there, so:
Take Care, Stay Safe, and Stay Sane
Cheers!
Certainly not inspired, Still a cool book in general
I feel like the teaching of the inerrancy of the bible by fundamentalists/ evangelicals has been the downfall of the faith for many because once you pull that thread the whole belief system unravels. That was what started my deconstruction.
I am delighted that your RUclips channels both exist. I have made it a practice not to get into it with evangelical apologists. They are not coming from a place of honest inquiry, so not worth the bother. However, I find ancient history and biblical criticism fascinating. Love this stuff!
Thanks! I glad you find the topics as fascinating to explore as I do. :)
Daniel's supposed accurate prophecy was my last barrier away from belief to atheism. Once I learned about the mistakes in there it was a wrap for Christianity. Especially all the end times prophecies which rely on it so tightly.
Same here
The belief in End Times is arrogant, conceited & prideful. The believers would deny their own children life. Kind of like Abraham planning to kill his son. These times are NOT THE END TIMES. The gullible who believe they were born in the end times are deluded. People have been saying their time is the end times for Tousands of years. All were wrong!
I like how the professor knew going to John Hopkins would change his mind. I feel like this is the case when people receive a non-christian biased education.
Exactly. Bart Ehrman was swimming along nicely until he got to Princeton. Uh-oh!
Good objective education will do that for ya.
This is one of the concerns about the rise of charter schools. Which is at least partly because US schools are so poorly funded, particularly in areas with a small tax base.
@@granthurlburt4062 Another part is that public schools are poorly *run* .
Awesome in-depth quality content as usual. It's a shame evangelicals and apologetics choose to ignore such facts.
I'm a Christian and I definitely enjoyed this content.
It never ceases to amaze and disgust me that despite all of the evidence, a lot of church folks still think that the Bible trumps all of it
It's very ignorant and disrespectful 😊
You’re not a Christian if you don’t believe in the infallibility of the bible which is the word of God which as you know is God
@@Carlos-sr8km Lol! You're as gullible as so many in the church. The Bible was written by humans, and humans aren't perfect.
Second, you're in no position to tell me if I am a Christian or not.
All I see with you is someone who thinks that one piece of religious literature is the only thing that's true
True is different for different people. No one book can determine all of that
@@Carlos-sr8kmYou don't get to decide who is and isn't a Christian, that's a no-true Scotsman fallacy.
Oh, wow, Josh Bowen has such a cool apartment. I wish I had the Ishtar Gate in mine! All I have at my doorway is a faded pothead poster.
I very much enjoyed this! Thank you!
9:10 How are you getting this interpretation? The text is pretty clear how Joseph was sold into Egypt.. Ishmaelites and Midianites were the same thing. It doesn't say anywhere that the Midianites rescued Joseph from the cistern.. what are you talking about?
This was an excellent video! Thank you!
The greatest irony in life is getting 2 back to back Faith Healing ads on this video
Fantastic video. Well done both.
Incredible video! To be watched again on Saturday.
In the New Testament, there are places where people ask Jesus who the greatest prophet was. As a kid I always thought it was strange. How could one prophet be "better" than another if they were all speaking words directly from God?
"Working backwards from your conclusion," which is "the Bible is the divinely inspired and inerrant Word of God," seems to be standard operating procedure for most if not all evangelicals, fundamentalists and Christian apologists. This is so contrary to an honest search for the truth that it boggles my mind how these people delude themselves into believing any of the nonsense that fills the Bible. Thanks for a great conversation!
great interview.....thanks for sharing
The craziest thing is, you ask any Torah scholar and they've always known it was just a book of fables. Jews have always taught it as a book of fables than actual history. 😂
So, Jews have created these books, knowing they are fables?
@@silentwitness4843 yup. Never meant to be anything other than morality lessons for people who lived 5-2k years ago. 👍
Yea they even believe that Mosses never existed!
Dr. Bowen is brilliant and amazing! Excellent interview
People looking for excuses to remain in theirs sinful nature... Brethren, repent and be converted, so that you will be saved from damnation.
Jesus Christ is the only way to the Kingdom of God 🔊
The Bible is not a reliable historical source because it does not meet the standard criteria of source reliability used by historians. The Bible is not, as many believers assume, eye witness testimony. Reliable sources are generally based on authors who were eye witnesses to an event (i.e. it is a primary source). Since any particular source may be fabricating their story, multiple independent sources are usually required for confidence. Establishing the lack of author biases, including religious motivations, is also necessary if a work is to be read at face value. The Bible satisfies none of these requirements.
Based on historical and archaeological research, there are known historical inaccuracies in the Bible. The Bible is considered Mythological by most historians. Historians know the Gospels are largely or entirely Myths because they share the same characteristics in that they are an apparently normal story except:
The text is structured to convey an underlying meaning, usually to convey some Political or Value System,
Using Symbols that are familiar the intended audience.
Refers to or retells other myths and stories but often some aspects are changed to make a specific point.
Historical improbabilities, occurrence of miracles or people acting unrealistically.
Lack of corroborating evidence.
People do more research on their Cars and Homes they buy. But not on the religion they live life by...
Blind Obedience is a Dangerous Thing... Christianity may be considered a religion, but it was actually developed and used as a system of MIND CONTROL to produce Slaves that believed God decreed their Slavery. DOING REAL RESEARCH WILL SHOW YOU IT'S ALL BEEN A LIE... And “NO” you can't use the Bible to prove the Bible. That's not how “TRUTH” works. That's using a book of LIE'S to tell false TRUTHS...
All historical literary sources are biased (as are all modern ones). It's the job of the historian to tease out the facts from the embellishments and slanders.
I can't escape the ultimate conclusion of all this. Every denomination claims every other denomination has an incorrect interpretation. How can we know what any interpretation should be when no one has an original of any scripture? How are we supposed to believe the most important being in the universe sent the most important message in the universe using possibly the most fallible method ever?
Maaaaan I been saying that for decades!!! And how does gawd have a chosen race of people? Sh*t is regoddamndiculous 🙄
@@BennyTwennyGrand And those "chosen people" get conquered by everyone else.
@@rickmartin7596 Super Fact!!!
it's easy son of god came to earth to establish a Church one church and only church that is 2000 thausend year old is holly apostolic chatolic church .see you don't have to be a geinius really .hope it helps.ex militant atheist here .god bless you and Jesus loves you .
@@antepolic4232 That in no way addresses my point. All Christian denominations claim the same core scriptures despite their individual additions and/or deletions. And no one has an original of any of these ancient texts. How can you trust an ancient scroll to deliver what is claimed to be the most important message when you:
A. don't know the original text?
B. can't even agree on the message?
We all know that the Pentateuch wasn't written by Moses, it was written by a much more talented person, Mel Brooks.
I'm still waiting for the History of the World Part 2.
@@HolyKoolaid Hitler on ice was way overrated, the man couldn't even salchow properly.
Like we know there were 15 commandments... but Moses dropped one of the tablets.
Maybe that one had the 'Thou shalt not keep other humans as slaves.'
@@brunozeigerts6379 It was probably more about not worshipping cattle or goats.
@@rembrandt972ify Or ... 'knowing them' in the biblical sense. (though a quick google does bring up a prohibitory verse in Exodus.)
As an ex-Mormon, I am fascinated with comparing what Daniel did, and what Joseph Smith did. Joseph Smith, in the Book of Mormon, did exactly what you said the book of Daniel did. He got some things from long ago right, some of them wrong, when he gets up to Columbus, the American Revolution, and the Great Awakening, he gets a lot of things right, and then everything that comes after the Book of Mormon went to print is just vague, and often wrong.
Another fun part about being Mormon, I was taught often and frequently that Tyre was destroyed, and no longer exists, because all of my Sunday School and Seminary teachers were just Stay At Home Moms, who just assumed the bible was correct.
Tyre was never to be destroyed by Neb. It says many nations would do it. Isaiah 19-24 is the entire Middle East judged..tyre is destroyed
"My brother Esau is a hairy man, but I am a smooth man."
Words to live by.
So his brothers a bear and hes a otter or twink? Lol
Most of them are. I was asked to help teach the children. I said no
The most annoying argument I faced when I first confronted my grandparents about the accuracy of the bible... was that the "futuristic knowledge" was basically God just whispering to Moses the secrets of the world. Because god is omnipotent.
The idea about the book of daniel feels like people who believe it don't understand that people can also write fantastical stories based on what they know. We do write historical fiction these days a LOT. What's to say that we haven't written historical fiction back then too?
Thank you for this informed, relaxed dialog between Dr Bowen and Josh whom both appear very knowledgeable on this subject. I found the discussion relied a lot on specifics with reason and evidence without appearing pretentious.
What I often hear from the religious right is the exact opposite e.g. very general, vague, and very pretentious rhetoric. So thanks again for not being that!
Hi, I've enjoyed and benefitted from your presentation with Josh Bowen and just been listening to his series. Into my feed popped a video by the Associates for Biblical Research titled "Daniel-Prophet or Pretender?". Have to say that these guys are really deceptive in their arguments for placing the writing of Daniel back in the 6th C BC. I'd have commented on their video, but, no surprise, they've turned off comments. To me, their key deception was to state that since the Aramaic is dated to at least the 5th C BC, therefore so is the whole book - no mention that the second part is Hebrew and that the textual argument for a 165BC writing of this part is based on the Hebrew, which is where the prophesies are.
There's also a 2nd hand quote from Sibley Towner in the "Daniel-Prophet or Pretender?" which I'd love to check up, as I suspect it's been mined and lifted out of context.
Thank you for this excellent video!
I'm glad you liked it.
@@HolyKoolaid your videos are very professionally made. Thank you!
Love Dr Josh! He was on my channel too talking about Daniel and I love his insight.
When will the movie "The Bible", be released to correct the Moses myth?
This is truly fascinating
If a "prophet" says that bad things will happen but you then repent and the bad things don't happen, then that isn't "prophecy."
That's "threatening."
The prophecy is that bad things will happen if you DON'T repent. So it still holds true. That's why Jonah was so upset. Because he thought the people being spared made him look like a fool.
@@welllll...ok... That's not a prophecy.
That's a threat.
I just bought Dr. Bowen vol. 1 book. Can’t wait to read it.
Fantastic episode. Dr. Josh is the Boss on this stuff.
Congrats Josh for getting volume 2 out.
Thank you!!
As has been said MANY times, the quickest way to atheisms is by studying the bible. It is why in the middle ages it was a capital offense to translate the bible into the vernacular and people were BURNED AT THE STAKE for attempting it. The church was concerned that without learned men, of COURSE it was men, filtering the bible into simple precepts, the layette would get things wrong and develop heretical beliefs and misunderstand its teachings. Clearly they were correct in that assumption as we can see so tragically in the United States downward spiral into christo-facist theocracy.
Thanks for your comment.