Happy to see so many of you willing to try again, despite it very clearly being an uphill battle. Will update you all in a few days, we all want to make sure things go as best they can. Stay tuned...
I feel there should be some sort of central hub for people to discuss, and especially organise, SaveTF2 related movements. Maybe a Discord server or something?
I'be been saying this on r/TF2 since #SaveTF2 started: the GLARINGLY obvious problem with #SaveTF2 was the total lack of planning or organization. It was announced TWO DAYS beforehand. There were no formally stated objectives, not time to plan, no time to get the word out. That means that big RUclipsrs & influencers who may have participated and added weight to the movement migh tnot have even HEARD about it until it was too late. And without clearly stated objectives, you can't gage success. So, a second #SaveTF2 is a fine idea...but this time, let's get those "on X date" pictuers circulating at leat a week or two ahead of time, as well as some sort of "here's what we want" list, which should be kept to the bare minimum "must haves." Edit: ALSO, very important: we need to kick the cheater, Monster Yambo. X-D
I mean you are correct, and no one will listen. Like for real, how in the fuck was Save TF2 going to work when it was an event that dropped on us 2 days in advance with NO stated objectives while every "leader" was doing there own thing. Oh Valve tweeted something, guess that means TF2 is saved... ignore the bugs, bots, lack of updates etc etc, valve tweeted so that means we won.
One problem was also that the movement wasn't directly adressing the issue at hand, the bots It was just people going on about how much they love the game Like Zesty Jesus said, you need to tell the fire department that your house is burning down, not to scream about how much you love your house
I'd much rather try and fail then not try at all I said that 2 years ago during the original savetf2 again and I'll boldly say it again. Something needs to be done
TF2 Classic got shut-down by Valve, then the devs got fed up by being ghosted and re-released it anyway. Just like WoW Classic. The fire's there. We just need to stoke it and get it going!
Yeah, it's hard to try and assume that it was simply more radio silence on Valve's part, rather than a weaselly way of getting the fan mod 'competitor' removed with minimal effort. But now I heard some months ago that somebody at Valve contacted the Team Fortress 2 Classic team, along with the Open Fortress team, to roll their mods into mainline TF2? Can't find anything on this since.
This game has a community where if someone makes 2 Save TF2 videos, they get labelled a “doomposter”. For any SaveTF2 movement to work, EVERY TF2 player needs to be coordinated on the idea. I have had shown to me that that is practically impossible. But god damnit, am I willing to try a new approach to this problem!
I think it's important that we set some clear goals for what we want out of Valve. Remember what we *really* need from them. All TF2 needs, is to be reliably playable for the foreseeable future. This boils down to two demands: - Solve the bot issue, cheating bots primarily but also idle bots. - Restore F2P ability to chat. *We don't need the Heavy Update, we don't need new weapons or rebalances, we just need the game to be reliably playable.* New content only matters once the bot issues have been solved. Let's focus on that before we demand new content updates.
The same thing happened with oldschool runescape. The developers released update after update which nobody liked. A rather large private server of the 2006 version of the game came out, was taken down, then they proposed oldschool 2007 servers and got over 400k signatures... Now oldschool is nearly their flagship product.
@@SturgGaeming No, I didn't miss the point... I was pointing out that community involvement is what brought back WoW classic, as well as oldschool runescape (which came back in 2013, even before the Wow private server stuff went down)
Now ironically the same thing that happened to RS back in 2012 is now happening to OSRS, with the release of bonds, stagnant end-game reddit content, and huge bot farms.
@@BanjoGate the difference is that, the community shouting at a wall for so long (savetf2 for example). there is only one dev working on tf2 right now (god bless you eric), so the community wouldnt be able to do much unless more devs come over to tf2, which i doubt that would ever happen since tf2 is a decade old game
this kind of reminds me of old english, there was no "A" before so you could see something like, he was good king as it was the case of, "he was god cyning" or "þæt wæs god cyning"
Arguably pretty easy when the community hosts the servers. Just revert Meet Your Match and send casual queue into vanilla-enough community servers along with the official ones. After all, it's kinda how CS and Minecraft lasted for so long
wouldn’t that just make it even easier for bots to get into community servers? admittedly community servers can have more dictative rules without consequences, potentially kicking more bots, but the servers that don’t pivot to managing the bot count will get infested, leading to even less servers with real people.
@@bananapepperbenit should be pretty easy to keep community servers free of bots with some active moderation. If it gets real bad you can use a whitelist and have players register with a short waiting period. Combine this with some basic sanity checks to make sure the Steam accounts registering actually belong to a human.
The TF2 community hates itself as much as it hates everyone else. The steam discussion boards are a literal dumpster fire that despises everything (to the point that they'll say the bots are good it's the friendlies that kill the game) then you have the reddit that...well it exists.
To add onto this real quick, the steam discussion board fucking despises Weezy and all of his content, they will literally write a 15 page essay on why Weezy is a shitty youtuber, but this is par for the course because they hate every tftuber. It's a little circle jerk of like 3 or 4 people that will flood any fuckin discussion boards page with hate. It's not even funny, it's just sad.
My biggest problem with the original movement is that it was essentially the bare minimum, chat got disabled, trades got a lot more locked down, all that stuff, but then 3 weeks after the patches the public servers went back to how they used to be and no one said anything, because a lot of the people that wanted "TF2 fixed" didn't play TF2, they just wanted to lend a hand for the game they used to play in the 2010s. A lot more conscience needs to be laid out for people to see and understand the problem.
"It's not over til' it's over." If this is going to work we need to rally nearly everyone both inside and outside of the community together. Redditors, Twitter users, Big and small RUclipsrs, and fans of the game in general. We need to make our voices heard. Instead of telling Valve about how much we love the game, we need to effectively get the message across and say that the game we all love is broken, at times nearly unplayable, idle-botted to high heck for profit, and receiving little to no actual updates to fix anything. I'm done sitting in complacent silence waiting for something to happen and I'm done being told to "shut up" whenever anyone talks about the bot crisis online, and I'm fairly sure a lot of you are as well. Let us, as a community make our voices loud and clear and not let up until Valve actually does something to fix the game!
A fairly simple idea that I have is a post kick cool down, similar to what CS competitive has. where after being kicked you are given a cool down that progressively gets larger depending on how many times its happened and how often, this would most likely halt how many bots are in the servers, dropping the amount of bots by a significant number. Maybe after 1 kick there's no cool down unless you are kicked in the next 2 games as well, just in order to prevent people who are kick undeservingly by the bots from being cool downed. Another idea is implementing a "bot" label to kicks, allowing for a collection of all accounts that are commonly kicked for being bots to be banned.
One issue with this is that the bots could exploit this. I get kicked almost instantly whenever I join a server flooded with bots. Many other people do as well. Those people would be hurt by this change far more than they would be helped. Any change made to votekicks can just as easily be abused by the bots.
@@colingaul9579 true, maybe a trust factor system could be added, and if it’s low enough then your vote kick privileges could be removed, unsure how this could be implemented though, maybe through play time but even then that could be exploited too
ok, here's an odd idea that's so silly it might actually work: so one of the things that got blizzard to make WOW classic was having the physical representation of the signatures in hand. What if we as a community, on top of posting hashtags, made a real petition instead of an online one. We all send letters to valve with our name signed on them so that their mailbox is completely full. We could even just make one document to share around, all you gotta do is print it out, sign it, and mail it.
I remember first playing during Meet your Match,mere months before Jungle Inferno.. I would've never guessed that that would put me in the nowadaus fairly exclusive camp of people who have "experienced a major update." Honestly, it just feels wild.
I think a massive enemy to this cause is Valve's Flatland policy. Since there are no higher ups to assign you to a project, we'd need valve employees to commit themselves to the treadmill, whereas most would rather work on the newest, shiniest project. Valve is kind of infamous for making a lot of cool stuff and then moving on to new cool stuff. Long term maintenance isn't really their MO
There is one way out of this, and it's called long-term contracts. I know valve is really reluctant to implement something like that but the fact of the matter is that TF2 _needs_ a dedicated group of devs/contractors to uphold its and the rest of Valve's games' playability.
It's funny hearing the WoW story, considering RuneScape went through the exact same thing just a few years earlier. If I'm not mistaken, OldSchool RuneScape is the first official "Classic" MMO revival, or at least the first notable one. Private servers were already around, but when Jagex released a massive combat overhaul in 2013 that fundamentally changed the game, players rioted and left in droves. All those private servers began popping off like never before, offering the gameplay that was now gone from the main game. The difference here is that the community rallied together with a specific goal, and the company actually listened. After polling interest, Jagex immediately dug up a game backup from 2007 and got a classic server up and running, which eventually got its own series of updates. Nowadays it's considered the definitive version of the game, with 4x-5x the playerbase of the "main" game. At the moment, Valve is kinda sorta listening. We need to be organized and vocal, and hope for the best.
Everquest has had classic era progression servers and resets before OSRS came out, but Everquest is "niche" compared to Runescape and WoW so you don't hear much about it.
Snapple-fact of the day: Everquest (the Wow before Wow - legit half the wow team came from EQ) ---- has been doing "timelocked progression servers" since 2006 as well - I understand lots of people under the age of 35 might not have ever played EQ, but it set a precedent also.
Osrs was also possible because even within the company itself the dev's didn't want the update as well. They knew it would "kill" the game and could motivate the idea for a legacy server to the higher ups. And to relate this to tf2 there is only a single dev on the game just shouting at him won't do anything good. The main culprit is Valve their flimsy anti cheat which is causing issues on cs2 as well. Valve should redirect their attention to updating and fixing that and apply it to both
This is inspiring! Been playing TF2 since 2009. Definitely my favorite multiplayer game, and it's a shame what it's become. I'm eager to see what you're cooking and hopefully I can contribute in some way! 🙏
As someone heavily involved in Vanilla WoW, from the private server days to today as a player of Classic WoW, I have also felt an extremely strong similarity between these two movements, especially with the FixTF2 petition. I think this will work this time, printed signitaures, persistance and a clear goal will have a much greater effect on Valve and on the future landscape of this community than forced positivity on a dire situation. While we aren't guarenteed to succeed, the last 5 years of Classic WoW versus the Bot crisis in TF2 tell me that we are finally on the right path. Let's do this, don't stop until the game is fixed!
its a 6v6 3rd person shooter. I don't think there will be much overlap between the player base. Sure some TF2 players will try it, but the people still playing TF2 are probably going to continue playing TF2 once they realize the new game doesn't do what TF2 does.
@@ThrashRatsjust you wait when bots flood that game. They already can’t fix CS2 hackers and cheaters problems, what makes you think they can release this without issue?
I literally heard about it for the first time not so long ago and it was in form of "leaked screenshots", but I hope they were fake, because it looked really generic and unimpressive
I've been protesting TF2 since February 29th of this year. I've uninstalled the game and sold off my keys. I got sick and tired of BOTH dealing with votekicking all the bots, AND playing "Armchair Detective" to the massive amount of closet cheaters. I just don't have the mental energy to deal with it anymore. I've played TF2 since release. "Meet the Heavy" came out when I was in middle school. Words can't really describe how hyped I was for TF2. It was unbelievable how a video game could look like a Pixar movie. The first class I played was Engineer. I was totally shocked that I could build stuff on the map. I never played TFC (Team Fortress Classic), So this was a new concept to me. I had such a blast watching my sentry gun turn the enemy into chunky salsa in record time. I was around through all of TF2's updates, watched it slowly grow into the nightmare it's now become. I remember when the Pomson was added. The long stretch on Badwater Basin was nothing but Blu and Red laser beams going back and forth. It looked like an episode of GI Joe from the 80's. I remember when the Stairstab Spy meta appeared out of seemingly nowhere. I sat for hours watching Stairstab frag videos, studying them. Learning how to counter this insane craze I was witnessing. I met some amazing people through TF2. Some I still speak to. I have so many good memories involving this game. It really does make me sad seeing Valve do NOTHING to fix this game. Also, with the recent leaks from Valve. Apparently they're working on a new Hero Shooter! Wow! If only they had a game under their belt that started that trend in the first place! Oh wait..... I do hope this movement has some sort of impact. I'll be watching from a distance. I have no plans to return to TF2 unless the game is truly fixed. No more copium for me. The worst part about this mess, is that Valve actively accepts your hard earned money from ingame purchases, and has the gall to allow bad actors ruin the entire game. Valve should not be rewarded for this behavior. If you're gonna boycott, please don't buy keys or anything else. Don't buy anything. Do not reward Valve for letting them neglect this game.
Oh an oldschooler! I unfortunately stated playing only after Jungle Inferno in 2018. But it's great to still see people who played the game back when it originally released but what unites us all is the love for TF2. Well as the video said, boycotting Valve is not a good idea because TF2 is not a high priority to it, so for now what can help the game most is getting oldschoolers like you on board with SaveTF2. The more people the better and it gives the movement more legitymacy with people who loved the game from the very beginning! So good day to you sir, let's both hope that TF2 gets trully fixed!
I dont think its likely this will amount to much, but I still think its worth trying. Just like with gamblers, 99% quit before they win it big. We will win it big brothers.
I think gambling is kind of a bad analogy here. This isn't about whether or not the house wins, it's about asking the house to put security guards back at the doors because the casino is being ransacked by retirees with sniper rifles.
2 years already? I hardly remember what I did the first time around. I think it was a poetry video. The first savetf2 event occurred very quickly after it was announced, I didn't have the time to do anything more elaborate.
@@kyperactive isnt the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result? Sure that might fall under delusion but that doesn’t make it not insanity.
7:11 the irony of this video coming now of all times. This "fire dragon" is going to destroy Classic WoW and what made it special for the second time in few days.
And the people that complain about Cata can go and continue playing on the Classic Vanilla servers and stagnate till the end of time, wailing and gnashing for a 'restart' when all they really want is that 2004 experience that they can never get again.
@@Dimumouto"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙚𝙭𝙥𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙙𝙞𝙛𝙛𝙚𝙧𝙚𝙣𝙩 𝙧𝙚𝙨𝙪𝙡𝙩𝙨" Those guys did it once, it worked, and now then seem to expect the same solution to never not work. Not to necessarily agree with such a method, all things considered, but by that definition alone, they seem pretty sane to me... Edit: made excerpt bold for emphasis.
@Mr.Mediackre the different results is the experience they want to relive. Which is funny cause there's the Classic Era servers right there, and SoD, and Hardcore. 3 flavors of that experience. To want to continue to go back to an unchanging, eventually stagnant game and world thats meant to grow (its an MMORPG) is insane to me, especially since it hasn't even been 5 years (and as I said, the era servers are *right there*).
@@starmaker75 Heavy may have gotten (arguably) the best new item in that update, but he still needs more love. As a Medic main, I would personally love a new weapon in any slot. Medic has so few options.
@@starmaker75 I'm gonna say le big bad, but none of Medic's melee options and potentially added new ones can shine as long as the Ubersaw remains in its current state. Same goes for needle guns and the crossbow. The only spot where Medic doesn't have a "straight-up upgrade" is in his Mediguns where all of them are viable (Quick-Fix my beloved).
That sounds great... SO GIVE VALVE THE PETITION AND GIVE US DIRECTION. You aren't telling people what to do other than 'Say the same thing over and over for 2 months'. Don't wait for the summer update. Get the movement up and running again!
I've been here for almost a year, being a f2p, and I don't think i've heard a more genuine plan to keep pushing. This community is one of the most dedicated and (mostly) mature people i've ever met. This game feels like a family member I come to every once in a while to have fun with, if I want it to die, I want it in blazing glory. Thank you for this. Also the WoW struggle comparison was absolutely beautiful. I played it for a while during 2017/18 and honestly this makes me want to boot up my old account again. UNITED WE STAND, SAVETF2!
I genuinely hope this works out for all of you tf2 players. Ive played since 2011 and got so sick of recurring bot waves that i just quit. Sold my entire backpack, removed from library. Never going back adter having played for 13 years
SaveTF2 quickly became a circle-jerk, that when it was trending - People were more happy about the fact that the movement was on trending, than having it to get Valve's attention and bring change. The usual content grifters were like 'OMG I love TF2' then moved on and talked about something else, not to mention that the TF tubers or whatever were using the movement just for clicks and attention. I loved the game too but TF2 community, you kind of blew this. Any movement you start next will not have the same impact that the initial one had.
Honestly in my opinion this video is such a breath of fresh air, most TF2 videos regarding the game’s state either seem way too optimistic or way too pessimistic but this I think balances the both out fairly well. Sure the original SaveTF2 wasn’t as big as a success as the community wished it to be, hell it’s debatable if it was even a success at all, but just because we didn’t get the desired outcome the first time doesn’t mean we should just sit on our behinds and watch the game suffer. Criticism is great and I’m glad that some RUclipsrs are speaking their true feelings on the matter, but actual action is something we need instead of just wallowing in despair. The same goes for positivity, but at the same time some people need to be realistic about the situation and realize that what we’re getting isn’t sustainable as well as the fact we have to do something about it.
It feels like white knights and doomposters both don't want to do anything about the game's state. Perhaps they don't even play the game or in the worst case are bot hosters and cheaters.
The effort we put in got us a tweet from Valve, the first time the #savetf2 hashtag went viral. Enough people spread the hashtag that big streamers like moistcritical and the wonderful VA's for the game showed solidarity, and put some attention on it. The second half-assed savetf2 wave had nowhere near the level support the first one got (because of lack of effort). Therefore, by that logic: more effort = more results. If people went out of their way to show up to a physical location to make some noise about the issue, then Valve would have to put some acknowledgement towards the issue at hand. It would look bad on them if they ignored actual people showing up to the place. Even if only 50 people showed up, imagine the news that would come from it, not to mention people on social media showing support. It doesn't even have to be a week long protest. Ideally, people show up for a day, and make some noise, (and be well behaved enough that they don't resort to rioting/violence) then leave. It's a statement: "We showed up because we could, but there are more of us out there that care just as much. Please do something about the game that so many of us hold dear. We are here, and we are waiting for you to do something about it. We want answers." We tell them what we want, and put the ball in their court. Then we should get a definitive response. It might be: "We have no further plans for tf2 and we have decided that it's finally time to release the source code for the game so the community can take care of the game in its end-of-life." Or "We would like to be transparent and let you know that we are currently working on other projects for the next (insert lenght of time here). We are indebted to our investors and shareholders, and we need to address them first. We currently do not have the resouces to divert to development of the TF2. Once these projects are finished, we will resume development for bug fixes, exploit fixes, and add more content to the game. We appreciate your passion, loyalty and admiration for the game, but most of all, your patience. We look forward to being able to work on the game once our affairs are in order." Or "Hello TF2 community, it has been a long time since we gave the game any content or fixes. We are working on other projects that take first priority. However, we recognise that the game currently has lots of issues, and the problem has gotten out of hand. As TF2 has been a long standing source of supplemental income to the company via the players purchasing cosmetics and tour of duty tickets, we feel indebted to the playerbase for keeping us afloat. In an effort to curb the onsalught of bots, we are going to temporarily outsource the manpower needed to maintain the playability of the game. We are outsourcing the work to (XYZ company) and you should expect an update (insert time here). We intend to return to the IP at a later date, and provide a proper content update at a that time. Thank you for your continued support and patience." Or it could be any variation of those examples. the worst thing that we are dealing with is this vague, wishy-washy, bullshit saying "we hear you.", but not doing anything about it. Then silence We can force their hand if we at least try to make our voices heard. This game means a lot to me (as evidenced by all this shit that I wrote) and so many others. I cared enough to write this, and I know that there are plenty of others that would show the same support. The only thing stopping us from doing this the lack of organization on our part to actually execute this. Is it easy to be pessimistic towards this situation? Yes. Is this naïve thinking? Maybe, but, you lose 100% of all the Payload games that you don't rally your team together in the last minute for one final push where you mindlessly throw your body on the cart. Countless games have been won this way. We should take a page out of the merc's book.
Showing up to valve hq would make us look bad and make valve less likely to actually listen to us. They would more likely shut the game down. We need to covey ourselves in a way that makes people want to join our movement. Harrasing valve employees who don't have anything to do with this will not help.
Valve isn't a publicly traded company, btw. The private investors, while unknown for certain, are more than likely just the top brass of the company, like GabeN himself, and maybe a few other private shareholders.
One thing that i think must absolutely be pushed for is giving matchmaking the ability to put players into community servers again. Since community servers are (or at least can be) moderated, the bots wouldn't be able to cause nearly as much havoc there, plus community servers can add custom weapons and balance changes, kinda like what creators.tf did years back. It's just that now players would be able to find those servers naturally through actually playing the game, instead of needing to be told about it outside the game, plus it lets valve not work on the game themselves since the community can handle adding things into the game. It probably wouldnt be a perfect solution, but I think itd be the best deal for all involved, valve doesnt need to work on the game, and the community still gets new toys to play with so long as the game itself functions. only problem i see with it being that initially most community servers would be kinda bad for while since so many have just been dead in the server browser for years, but once players start setting up their own servers that would fix it pretty fast
honestly if this doesnt work, there needs to be some third party matchmaking tool with *community official servers* something similar like a faceit client hosted by community server hosters, like a community collective and just replace the valve official servers and keep the vanilla matchmaking experience but with self hosting ones that can be moderated
@@banguseater the problem with community solutions like that is that new players wont know about them unless someone tells them, which would slowly kill the game over time with a dwindling playerbase, although it is still significantly better than nothing as titanfall 2's northstar has shown
We have an amazing vehicle for this in the form of TF2 classic. We should make coverage of that more public and shift the conversation towards valve’s playerbase getting their TF2 fix elsewhere if they don’t finally start putting the work in.
i really feel like the issue stems deeper into steam (the ease of access and account creation and bypassing bans) rather than the games themselves (cs, tf2, whatever) and the movent should kinda include this part
@@soupcan you still will be able to be a free to play in tf2 if thats what you mean. but if youre a man good of heart, you can pay those 5 dollars to get acces to everything (you do that anyway because its a policy) . its just hilarious that you can just go to a site, type some info and gey a 1000 accs fresh out of the oven.
@@Dr_Dan_ That would be like being a store owner and shooting a nuclear warhead at your customers because you suspect one of them might steal something, it would fundamentally destroy the dominance that Valve wants Steam to have
I came expecting another #savetf2 movement, and got an entire history of WoW. I learned a lot from this. 17 year old game. That alone is something special. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
All you need is 100 secret saxtons, 20 years of TF2 experience, and a spot on the development team. Then, you put all your trust into F1. That's how you save TF2.
There's one big KEY factor that differs Blizzard from Valve though And that's how they handle their employees Blizzard tells their employees what to do while Valve tells them to work on what they want Nobody wants to work on TF2, even if Valve sees 1 million people signing it, i doubt anything will change. Because no one working at Valve WANTS to work on TF2
Maybe we could ask to have them contract developers from the comunity or to create a branch dedicated to tf2 (i know they are utopian ridiculous ideas, but let me be high on copium)
@@scatteringsparks Yeah that's what baffles me, they could atleast work on porting the game so it's more easily workable on, or make TF3 But there has to be more than spaghetti code that makes the devs not work on TF2 or TF2 related projects
Never thought I would be sitting down and be interested in a story about world of warcraft but here we are. You should really branch your content out! Can't wait to see what yall got planned btw :)
@@Gefdragoon They have a Frieren pfp and write like a bot in chat, players like you are why bots can get away with kicking half the server because "wah wah they might not be a bot wah wah"
im glad that tf2 got the community it has now, the community is the only reason this game isnt dead yet. be proud guys, you kept this gem alive for like a decade now and u might be why its gonna blow up again soon
I don't know if you'll ever read this but I got a really gnarly idea. We delete all cosmetics and discourage people from buying them. Not just from the store. From everywhere. We crash the market. But the purpose isn't to motivate Valve. Zesty showed that the bots primary purpose is to get items to sell to tf2 item sites to sell to the public. So if we crash the market, we can really inflate the market to the point that keys are worth like 99999 ref or something and thus aren't able to sell items for a lot of money anymore. Unusuals become worth pennies. The bots are too expensive to maintain and the profit isn't worth it. The operation will stop and Valve wouldn't have to lift a finger.
I remember staying up all night in the summer just to play MvM. I remember the window slightly open, the sun rising, the birds chirping, the cool breeze that I could feel with every breath, and that sweet summer morning temperature everything felt almost perfect in that moment, I’m glad that I took a minute just to sit there and look out the window just to take it all in. I look back on that night pretty often.
15:45 statistically, 1% is a very significant proportion over larger sample sizes. so if we have a 1% chance, that's basically a guarantee if we keep on trying. it's .01%, that's improbable, but 1% is still very much on the cards. and another example was the recent review bombing of war thunder to protest the economy changes. despite it only occurring on steam, and the boycott not working nearly as effectively as planned, it still made the dev team reverse the planned changes
15:15 You don't get this Weezy, WoW succeeded because Blizzard were just stupid, they had HOW many players wanting classic WoW? And what do WE have? Our real player numbers are pathetic in comparison to WoW, they won because there was money in it to make, so WoW Devs swallowed their pride for the dolla. So I'd argue those toxic players who constantly tried to held onto Tf2ubers indirectly had it right, if we want TF2 to get any change we really need to grow the playerbase, obviously don't be toxic about it I hope I don't have to say it. Also video doesn't take into account that CS2 struggles with similar issues with VAC, so if we really want to win, we NEED for CS2 to have their WoW Classic moment, they're the only playerbase big enough to make Valve care. So maybe if TF2 and CS2 players can put their differences aside and work together to demand for better Vac we could get something going. Alternatively I genuinely think it may be possible to squeeze from Valve concessions on autonomy, grow Tf2Classic popularity, by making it closer to vanilla TF2 and then grow it's playerbase and demand Valve to give community more autonomy, they could still have their own unique community crates or other stuff and Valve would still take whatever money cut they need. Seriously the early TF2 was as popular as it was due yo community servers, it's time for thek to come back in strength, focus all strength on promoting one community server mod(and I mean mod, like TF2Classic and not Uncle Dane servers please I don't want endless engies 😢) and hopefully we can cook something. TL;DR 1)If we going WoW route then get the alliance with CS2 community, get them to help us push general VAC update movement. 2)Or we can go Autonomy route and try to push Tf2Classic(or just get a new mod that is just vanilla TF2 with super rare updates)to become new vanilla way to experience TF2. Maybe the Casual button will now auto redirect you to custom TF2 mod that's 90% vanilla or more 3)Or again, go back to our roots and promote community servers.
I know the games aren’t even nearly as active or alive on the same level as TF2, but Unreal Tournament and UT2004 are both still kicking and the whole reason is community servers. The master server for UT99 was shut down ages ago so literally every aspect of the game is managed by the community, small though it may be. TF2 is lucky to still be supported by Valve, so I think the hope lies in the community really banding together, it’s worked in the past.
Sounds like you're onto something here. I'm not sure how doable it would be to get enough of CS2's playerbase to band together with the TF2 playerbase, but it can only lead to benefits for both parties. Plus, in the end, even if we don't get our demands met, this alliance could still lead to larger community growth and interaction between bases, which could bolster numbers and morale for another attempt later down the line. You have quite a compelling plan here, and I'm personally on board with it!
Being 'alive' isn't necesarily 'living' if you aren't really living out your life. Even if there is a good chance of failure, it is much better to try to 'live' then to just stay 'alive' slowly rotting away. TF2 is THAT kind of game that has the chance to 'live' again. Just as Sun Tzu said, "If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight!"
I don't want to be pessemistic, but here's my two cents. For one, the #saveTF2 movement happened during the pandemic. This was a time where more and more people were either returning to or playing TF2 because everyone was stuck inside. It was also towards the middle of the quarantines, so not only were people bored, they were over it/pissed off. This is why so many protest and online movements saw large scale support during that time. More people, less things to keep them occupied. Obviously comparing #saveTF2 to other movements is pretty silly, but in function, it's similar. Additionally, the whole issue with the reduction in bots after #saveTF2 is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. People raised a ton of attention for the game, which led to more people PLAYING the game, which meant less and less spots for bots to get in. I'm not saying that it didn't maybe make the bot hosters question whether they should keep going, but it wasn't like Valve really did anything to fix the problem. The community just made the game more populated for a brief period of time and drowned the bots out. #SaveTF2 as a movement didn't really do anything because Valve effectively only saw positives from it. Sure people gave them some harsh words on Twitter but ultimately, the game saw larger player interaction and most importantly, more purchasing. I think it's hard to deny that more people most likely bought the "summer update" crates and cosmetics, etc. than the previous ones, and even the player increase alone would have told Valve "hey, people are happy, sending need to do anything". TF2 is a literal cash cow for Valve. They don't need to update it really, except to implement things created by others. They don't need to do anything except release community-created cosmetics and watch the money roll in. Basically all they need to do is pay for the servers. Again, I know this is pessemistic, especially because boycotts...don't work, especially with a community as addicted and dedicated as TF2. But the only, and I mean the ONLY way for this game to change is if Valve sees the money leaving. And even then, maybe they just officially end support forever if people don't make it clear WHY they aren't getting their money anymore.
@@ziphy_6471I mean I just wrote my thoughts while watching the video, I don't really care if people see it or not. Just wanted to voice what I was thinking.
@@CheeseChurgercan you even blame them? We literally are holding onto false hope at this point. After two SaveTF2 Movements, Valve didn’t fix the Bot Crisis! Would you even be optimistic after that? Two movements didn’t even make Valve fix the Bot Crisis, of course they would be nihilistic about it!
@@apolloknight9521 The first movement was rushed with no real goal besides "Valve notice us senpai!!!", and most people don't even know the second movement happened. I say we must fix what didn't work before, just as WoW users did. The only real losing move is to give up.
![[TF2] Mvm's Most HATED Weapon](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JNUCMB174XA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Mvm's Most HATED Weapon](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Bad MvM Opinions](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIyw2lsqB5c/mqdefault.jpg)
Happy to see so many of you willing to try again, despite it very clearly being an uphill battle.
Will update you all in a few days, we all want to make sure things go as best they can. Stay tuned...
Can't wait to see what you got cooking
yes
My body is ready
Round two square up valve
I feel there should be some sort of central hub for people to discuss, and especially organise, SaveTF2 related movements. Maybe a Discord server or something?
call it #FixTF2 as it gets the point across better
You sir, are a genius.
Agreed
ya i enver really liked save much lol
Yes sir! it no longer #savetf2 its #Fixtf2
FixTf2
Fix Bugs?
Fix what?
I'be been saying this on r/TF2 since #SaveTF2 started: the GLARINGLY obvious problem with #SaveTF2 was the total lack of planning or organization. It was announced TWO DAYS beforehand. There were no formally stated objectives, not time to plan, no time to get the word out. That means that big RUclipsrs & influencers who may have participated and added weight to the movement migh tnot have even HEARD about it until it was too late. And without clearly stated objectives, you can't gage success.
So, a second #SaveTF2 is a fine idea...but this time, let's get those "on X date" pictuers circulating at leat a week or two ahead of time, as well as some sort of "here's what we want" list, which should be kept to the bare minimum "must haves."
Edit: ALSO, very important: we need to kick the cheater, Monster Yambo. X-D
I mean you are correct, and no one will listen.
Like for real, how in the fuck was Save TF2 going to work when it was an event that dropped on us 2 days in advance with NO stated objectives while every "leader" was doing there own thing. Oh Valve tweeted something, guess that means TF2 is saved... ignore the bugs, bots, lack of updates etc etc, valve tweeted so that means we won.
Gotta get this to the top this is so good
The best way to save tf2: Revert it to pre-mym and bring back quickplay. Simple.
One problem was also that the movement wasn't directly adressing the issue at hand, the bots
It was just people going on about how much they love the game
Like Zesty Jesus said, you need to tell the fire department that your house is burning down, not to scream about how much you love your house
@@aaronlaughter6471doomposter
"We got 25 fucking letters of the Alphabet left" is actually such a banger line.
"It might be only a 1% chance, but how many of you have you unboxed unusuals? 1% can happen" goes unbelievably hard also
@@trickstab7903
Um, ACTUALLY, unusuals have a LESS than 1% unbox rate!
(Pulls up glasses and uses inhaler)
@@maskofthedragon And it STILL happens
@@maskofthedragon sell me your panic attack please ty!
PLAN Z I LOVE PLAN Z
the bot crisis is a prime example of "the indomitable human spirit" vs "a cold uncaring universe"
even if were not succeding, even if it will all come to an end, at least we had fun along the way
@@enzoborghetto the real anti cheat was the friends we made along the way
At least we'll have pushed the cart the highest it was ever pushed.
@@manunova5929*One must imagine the tf2 community happy*
@@DaRealDemobird despite how unrealistic that may seem...
"We can grab our sneako chairs and watch the game get plowed" you're foul for that. Banger line
I'd much rather try and fail then not try at all
I said that 2 years ago during the original savetf2 again and I'll boldly say it again. Something needs to be done
ya
This what i been saying. Do nothing, nothing happens. Do something and things might change.
Rather scream and flip the void before then just saying screw it.
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 oh look. The NPC is here.
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 You're even more delusional if you think it isn't at least worth trying.
TF2 Classic got shut-down by Valve, then the devs got fed up by being ghosted and re-released it anyway.
Just like WoW Classic.
The fire's there. We just need to stoke it and get it going!
Yeah, it's hard to try and assume that it was simply more radio silence on Valve's part, rather than a weaselly way of getting the fan mod 'competitor' removed with minimal effort. But now I heard some months ago that somebody at Valve contacted the Team Fortress 2 Classic team, along with the Open Fortress team, to roll their mods into mainline TF2? Can't find anything on this since.
One thing that is always taught is that history is doomed to repeat itself. The parallels are so close, it just needs a push.
@BillyBobBoBilly Valve has a history of hiring mod developers so I wouldn't be surprised.
@@BillyBobBoBilly For real hope that's true
This isnt 1999. Grow up.
if valve doesnt listen im gonna have to get involved
oh damn
Oh fuck
Оh Scheiße
dear god...
How are you going to get involved?
"Plan A didn't work, but we got 25 fucking letters left"
PLAN Z PLAN Z PLAN Z
ITS LEMON SCENTED
@@Carp_surfer1558 ITS DIABOLICAL
We still have greece alphabet and cryptic alphabet as well
@@Carp_surfer1558That’s just the folder containing lewd pictures of Scout’s mother and the Red Spy.
It’s Z for “Zesty”.
Plan S if you get the reference
Wait, it's been _2 years_ since the original SaveTF2 movement? Jesus, it feels like it's been so much less than that.
Man I feel old
jungle inferno was 7 years ago, i feel really old
@@mizan9794 i cant believe this. i genuinely didnt believe you i had to look it up, i just got hit in the brick with time god damn..
@@mukyuuhikuu I can't believe 2017 was that long ago, it feels like just 3 years have passed.
And around 4 years since all this shit began...
“grab our sneako chairs and watch our game get plowed.” one of the best quotes i’ve ever heard
I just remembered who that was
" this server is VAC protected "
the server : full of bots
*loads in near full game*
*everyone is a sniper*
*pick an engineer*
*Aimbotted as soon as i spawn in*
*votekicked out the game*
"If fighting is sure to result in a victory, then you must fight!" - Sun Tzu
And we’ll continue to fight as long as it works!
and i'd say he knows a little bit more about it than you do pal because he invented it!
i am seeing this comment at work and this made me cry.
@@madcatmk213and then he perfected it so no living man could best him in the in of honour
"Sons, who said that?"- Soldier Tf2
title: How we can save tf2
content: *world of warcraft history lesson*
Love u weezy.
69 likes nice
hello source game man
123 likes nice
hello corpse_01 guy
And you make skibidi toilet videos. Are you any better
This game has a community where if someone makes 2 Save TF2 videos, they get labelled a “doomposter”.
For any SaveTF2 movement to work, EVERY TF2 player needs to be coordinated on the idea. I have had shown to me that that is practically impossible. But god damnit, am I willing to try a new approach to this problem!
Where have I seen this guy before
#SaveTF2
your videos suck
@@prestoncrenshaw2914yea alr buddy
Epic gamer, you are
"Yea, plan A didn't work. But we still have 25 letters of the F&%king alphabet left." one of the greatest things Ive ever heard.
We should have another person show up to their offices in spy cosplay so they make a second tweet
He should wear a Gabe mask too and try impersonate him
He saved TF2 when no one did.
Entire BLU and RED teams cosplays (with Saxton Hale of course)
@@013wolfwarrior come on not every dude with a beard-
@@vaan_
CAVE JOHNSON HERE
I think it's important that we set some clear goals for what we want out of Valve. Remember what we *really* need from them. All TF2 needs, is to be reliably playable for the foreseeable future.
This boils down to two demands:
- Solve the bot issue, cheating bots primarily but also idle bots.
- Restore F2P ability to chat.
*We don't need the Heavy Update, we don't need new weapons or rebalances, we just need the game to be reliably playable.* New content only matters once the bot issues have been solved. Let's focus on that before we demand new content updates.
The same thing happened with oldschool runescape.
The developers released update after update which nobody liked. A rather large private server of the 2006 version of the game came out, was taken down, then they proposed oldschool 2007 servers and got over 400k signatures... Now oldschool is nearly their flagship product.
This is literally the opposite problem that tf2 has, the devs do nothing for the game.
Did you miss the point? This is what can happen if we do enough for the game.
@@SturgGaeming No, I didn't miss the point... I was pointing out that community involvement is what brought back WoW classic, as well as oldschool runescape (which came back in 2013, even before the Wow private server stuff went down)
Now ironically the same thing that happened to RS back in 2012 is now happening to OSRS, with the release of bonds, stagnant end-game reddit content, and huge bot farms.
@@BanjoGate the difference is that, the community shouting at a wall for so long (savetf2 for example). there is only one dev working on tf2 right now (god bless you eric), so the community wouldnt be able to do much unless more devs come over to tf2, which i doubt that would ever happen since tf2 is a decade old game
I started TF2 only recently like a year or a couple months backs, but i feel connected to the game and I don't want it to die
as long as there are fans like you it will never die :D
i think youve earned the title:"Shortest RUclips video description that still describes the entire video." with this one
How about "mrrp mrrp meow mrrp meow"?
@@Tommuli_HaudankaivajaHow about "Chinese chef killed a man dressed in a large cat suit (furry) "
@@OdysseusofLethe That's longer.
this kind of reminds me of old english, there was no "A" before so
you could see something like, he was good king
as it was the case of,
"he was god cyning"
or
"þæt wæs god cyning"
Based chinese @@OdysseusofLethe
TF2 is a 17 year old game.
Let's make it live longer.
Arguably pretty easy when the community hosts the servers. Just revert Meet Your Match and send casual queue into vanilla-enough community servers along with the official ones.
After all, it's kinda how CS and Minecraft lasted for so long
@@Demopans5990 i been saying this for years and i do 100% agree.
#BringBackQuickPlay
@@Demopans5990 jesus that's genius
wouldn’t that just make it even easier for bots to get into community servers? admittedly community servers can have more dictative rules without consequences, potentially kicking more bots, but the servers that don’t pivot to managing the bot count will get infested, leading to even less servers with real people.
@@bananapepperbenit should be pretty easy to keep community servers free of bots with some active moderation. If it gets real bad you can use a whitelist and have players register with a short waiting period. Combine this with some basic sanity checks to make sure the Steam accounts registering actually belong to a human.
Tf2’s community has become the equivalent of a vault society in fallout
On a scale of “Control Vault” to “Vault 11,” how bad is it?
@@thelivingglitch1371 idk whats the worst one
@@susragejr477 Vault 11 in my eyes. It’s the one in New Vegas where people had to vote who to sacrifice every year.
The TF2 community hates itself as much as it hates everyone else. The steam discussion boards are a literal dumpster fire that despises everything (to the point that they'll say the bots are good it's the friendlies that kill the game) then you have the reddit that...well it exists.
To add onto this real quick, the steam discussion board fucking despises Weezy and all of his content, they will literally write a 15 page essay on why Weezy is a shitty youtuber, but this is par for the course because they hate every tftuber.
It's a little circle jerk of like 3 or 4 people that will flood any fuckin discussion boards page with hate. It's not even funny, it's just sad.
i forgot this was a video about saving tf2 and not a video essay on the history of WoW
My biggest problem with the original movement is that it was essentially the bare minimum, chat got disabled, trades got a lot more locked down, all that stuff, but then 3 weeks after the patches the public servers went back to how they used to be and no one said anything, because a lot of the people that wanted "TF2 fixed" didn't play TF2, they just wanted to lend a hand for the game they used to play in the 2010s. A lot more conscience needs to be laid out for people to see and understand the problem.
"It's not over til' it's over."
If this is going to work we need to rally nearly everyone both inside and outside of the community together. Redditors, Twitter users, Big and small RUclipsrs, and fans of the game in general. We need to make our voices heard. Instead of telling Valve about how much we love the game, we need to effectively get the message across and say that the game we all love is broken, at times nearly unplayable, idle-botted to high heck for profit, and receiving little to no actual updates to fix anything.
I'm done sitting in complacent silence waiting for something to happen and I'm done being told to "shut up" whenever anyone talks about the bot crisis online, and I'm fairly sure a lot of you are as well. Let us, as a community make our voices loud and clear and not let up until Valve actually does something to fix the game!
HECK THERES BASICALLY A SUB FANDOM FOR TF2 FAN GAMES ON ROBLOX WE HAVE THE NUMBERS ON EVERY PLATFORM
Redditors unite!
its cool to look back at this video knowing that it worked, for now at least
A fairly simple idea that I have is a post kick cool down, similar to what CS competitive has. where after being kicked you are given a cool down that progressively gets larger depending on how many times its happened and how often, this would most likely halt how many bots are in the servers, dropping the amount of bots by a significant number.
Maybe after 1 kick there's no cool down unless you are kicked in the next 2 games as well, just in order to prevent people who are kick undeservingly by the bots from being cool downed.
Another idea is implementing a "bot" label to kicks, allowing for a collection of all accounts that are commonly kicked for being bots to be banned.
im not good at coding but this could likely be a workshop submission
That is in fact a very good idea, I hope this comment gets read alot, this is a must
One issue with this is that the bots could exploit this. I get kicked almost instantly whenever I join a server flooded with bots. Many other people do as well. Those people would be hurt by this change far more than they would be helped. Any change made to votekicks can just as easily be abused by the bots.
@@colingaul9579 true, maybe a trust factor system could be added, and if it’s low enough then your vote kick privileges could be removed, unsure how this could be implemented though, maybe through play time but even then that could be exploited too
@@colingaul9579 everything will be exploited but we gotta start somewhere
"how many of you unboxed an unusual?"
Me: "I've never even unboxed a hat 😢"
I learned my lesson on CS:GO, just buy the one want, friend
All i did was craft and trade for one
ok, here's an odd idea that's so silly it might actually work:
so one of the things that got blizzard to make WOW classic was having the physical representation of the signatures in hand. What if we as a community, on top of posting hashtags, made a real petition instead of an online one. We all send letters to valve with our name signed on them so that their mailbox is completely full. We could even just make one document to share around, all you gotta do is print it out, sign it, and mail it.
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 You might just be saying that to be a shitter, but i gotta admit the idea got a chuckle outta me.
Probably email is enough
@@strayorion2031 I mean the point is that it's physical
"Hello, would you like to sign my petition?"
@@blunestinredintel “Sign my petition damit or will it be your surviving family members?”
Roses are RED
Violets are BLU
Where are the spys?
Right behind you.
As a wise man once said, “That was a hell of a campaign son!” I believe in this too.
o7
THIS CAMPAIGN ISN'T ENDING SOLDIER, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER AND GO DEFEND OUR BELOVED GAME
i have never witnessed the glory of a tf2 update. THAT is on my bucket list, please make it happen guys.
This would be a quite difficult tast
But if we would succeed in fixing the bots, then maybe?
I remember first playing during Meet your Match,mere months before Jungle Inferno.. I would've never guessed that that would put me in the nowadaus fairly exclusive camp of people who have "experienced a major update." Honestly, it just feels wild.
Same I joined tf2 right after blue moon so seeing a tf2 update is also on my bucket list too
lmao good luck with that, yall will never see that in your lifetime
Same
I think a massive enemy to this cause is Valve's Flatland policy.
Since there are no higher ups to assign you to a project, we'd need valve employees to commit themselves to the treadmill, whereas most would rather work on the newest, shiniest project.
Valve is kind of infamous for making a lot of cool stuff and then moving on to new cool stuff.
Long term maintenance isn't really their MO
One could argue that Steam is their big long-term maintenance baby though. They aren't strangers to it.
@@ewhschrisc Steam is a much different thing than tf2
There is one way out of this, and it's called long-term contracts. I know valve is really reluctant to implement something like that but the fact of the matter is that TF2 _needs_ a dedicated group of devs/contractors to uphold its and the rest of Valve's games' playability.
God, I hope no one will mention that "sleepy incident" on the stream
Are you referring to ZestyJesus's stream? Weezy was on it earlier
@@KR1T1KALZ indeed sir
@@JackieTrippsTheMemeLord Lmao that was a fucking embarrassing shitshow for weezy
Sleepy Joe
It's funny hearing the WoW story, considering RuneScape went through the exact same thing just a few years earlier. If I'm not mistaken, OldSchool RuneScape is the first official "Classic" MMO revival, or at least the first notable one. Private servers were already around, but when Jagex released a massive combat overhaul in 2013 that fundamentally changed the game, players rioted and left in droves. All those private servers began popping off like never before, offering the gameplay that was now gone from the main game.
The difference here is that the community rallied together with a specific goal, and the company actually listened. After polling interest, Jagex immediately dug up a game backup from 2007 and got a classic server up and running, which eventually got its own series of updates. Nowadays it's considered the definitive version of the game, with 4x-5x the playerbase of the "main" game.
At the moment, Valve is kinda sorta listening. We need to be organized and vocal, and hope for the best.
Everquest has had classic era progression servers and resets before OSRS came out, but Everquest is "niche" compared to Runescape and WoW so you don't hear much about it.
mud brain appearance
Snapple-fact of the day: Everquest (the Wow before Wow - legit half the wow team came from EQ) ---- has been doing "timelocked progression servers" since 2006 as well - I understand lots of people under the age of 35 might not have ever played EQ, but it set a precedent also.
Osrs was also possible because even within the company itself the dev's didn't want the update as well. They knew it would "kill" the game and could motivate the idea for a legacy server to the higher ups.
And to relate this to tf2 there is only a single dev on the game just shouting at him won't do anything good. The main culprit is Valve their flimsy anti cheat which is causing issues on cs2 as well. Valve should redirect their attention to updating and fixing that and apply it to both
This is inspiring! Been playing TF2 since 2009. Definitely my favorite multiplayer game, and it's a shame what it's become. I'm eager to see what you're cooking and hopefully I can contribute in some way! 🙏
i don't understand why the zesty video was a shock. You could've seen that the player count was bullshit by looking at the graph for a single second
Most sane TF2 players don't know how to even read the playtime graphs in the loading screens :/
Most people just don't look at it except to go "Holy shit we broke the record player numbers!!!" when updates happen, I'm guessing
It was less of a shock and more of unnecessary.
The contents of the video was basically a swift kick in the side, even though we were down.
The big playerbase was one of the main arguments some "fans" used to shit on other games, with that gone they have almost nothing
Ignorance is bliss for this playerbase.
As someone heavily involved in Vanilla WoW, from the private server days to today as a player of Classic WoW, I have also felt an extremely strong similarity between these two movements, especially with the FixTF2 petition. I think this will work this time, printed signitaures, persistance and a clear goal will have a much greater effect on Valve and on the future landscape of this community than forced positivity on a dire situation. While we aren't guarenteed to succeed, the last 5 years of Classic WoW versus the Bot crisis in TF2 tell me that we are finally on the right path. Let's do this, don't stop until the game is fixed!
There was also a rumor of new hero shooter by Valve. They might step on TF2's toes.
team fortress 4
I really hope that if this ends up being real and coming out, TF2 fans don't cry and try to start shit.
its a 6v6 3rd person shooter. I don't think there will be much overlap between the player base. Sure some TF2 players will try it, but the people still playing TF2 are probably going to continue playing TF2 once they realize the new game doesn't do what TF2 does.
@@ThrashRatsjust you wait when bots flood that game. They already can’t fix CS2 hackers and cheaters problems, what makes you think they can release this without issue?
I literally heard about it for the first time not so long ago and it was in form of "leaked screenshots", but I hope they were fake, because it looked really generic and unimpressive
Came for a TF2 video, stayed for a WoW history lesson
Main difference between TF2 and WOW is the subscription, even the classic version needs a sub fee
seeing Grummz mentioned was like a jumpscare i could feel the baldness emanating from my screen
I've been protesting TF2 since February 29th of this year. I've uninstalled the game and sold off my keys.
I got sick and tired of BOTH dealing with votekicking all the bots, AND playing "Armchair Detective" to the massive amount of closet cheaters. I just don't have the mental energy to deal with it anymore.
I've played TF2 since release. "Meet the Heavy" came out when I was in middle school. Words can't really describe how hyped I was for TF2. It was unbelievable how a video game could look like a Pixar movie. The first class I played was Engineer. I was totally shocked that I could build stuff on the map. I never played TFC (Team Fortress Classic), So this was a new concept to me. I had such a blast watching my sentry gun turn the enemy into chunky salsa in record time.
I was around through all of TF2's updates, watched it slowly grow into the nightmare it's now become. I remember when the Pomson was added. The long stretch on Badwater Basin was nothing but Blu and Red laser beams going back and forth. It looked like an episode of GI Joe from the 80's. I remember when the Stairstab Spy meta appeared out of seemingly nowhere. I sat for hours watching Stairstab frag videos, studying them. Learning how to counter this insane craze I was witnessing. I met some amazing people through TF2. Some I still speak to. I have so many good memories involving this game.
It really does make me sad seeing Valve do NOTHING to fix this game. Also, with the recent leaks from Valve. Apparently they're working on a new Hero Shooter! Wow! If only they had a game under their belt that started that trend in the first place! Oh wait.....
I do hope this movement has some sort of impact. I'll be watching from a distance. I have no plans to return to TF2 unless the game is truly fixed. No more copium for me. The worst part about this mess, is that Valve actively accepts your hard earned money from ingame purchases, and has the gall to allow bad actors ruin the entire game. Valve should not be rewarded for this behavior. If you're gonna boycott, please don't buy keys or anything else. Don't buy anything. Do not reward Valve for letting them neglect this game.
Oh an oldschooler!
I unfortunately stated playing only after Jungle Inferno in 2018.
But it's great to still see people who played the game back when it originally released but what unites us all is the love for TF2.
Well as the video said, boycotting Valve is not a good idea because TF2 is not a high priority to it, so for now what can help the game most is getting oldschoolers like you on board with SaveTF2. The more people the better and it gives the movement more legitymacy with people who loved the game from the very beginning!
So good day to you sir, let's both hope that TF2 gets trully fixed!
It wont, but keep dreaming 👍
Well atleast your doing something, that speaks volumes than the walls of text from doomposters or others
if valve stops making money from the game they'll kill the official servers
@@kyperactive nothing better to do than being negative in the comments of a video on a game you don't like?
I dont think its likely this will amount to much, but I still think its worth trying. Just like with gamblers, 99% quit before they win it big. We will win it big brothers.
I think gambling is kind of a bad analogy here. This isn't about whether or not the house wins, it's about asking the house to put security guards back at the doors because the casino is being ransacked by retirees with sniper rifles.
You’re not supposed to take that meme as actual advice lol
2 years already? I hardly remember what I did the first time around. I think it was a poetry video. The first savetf2 event occurred very quickly after it was announced, I didn't have the time to do anything more elaborate.
TF2 ain't TF2 without a bit of insanity
25 more letters. 25 more tries.
Some call it insanity.
We call it determination and perseverance.
The spineless will quit at 1
Actually, its delusion, but call it what you want.
@@kyperactive isnt the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result? Sure that might fall under delusion but that doesn’t make it not insanity.
You fool, we still have greece alphabet
@@ricefarmer-kr4yv we need all the alphabets up in here
7:11 the irony of this video coming now of all times. This "fire dragon" is going to destroy Classic WoW and what made it special for the second time in few days.
And the people that complain about Cata can go and continue playing on the Classic Vanilla servers and stagnate till the end of time, wailing and gnashing for a 'restart' when all they really want is that 2004 experience that they can never get again.
yeah, but they got another whole decade of life out of their game, and maybe they can fight for it and win again.
@dogf421 So they can repeat the same thing over and over?
Sounds like the definition of insanity to me.
@@Dimumouto"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙚𝙭𝙥𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙙𝙞𝙛𝙛𝙚𝙧𝙚𝙣𝙩 𝙧𝙚𝙨𝙪𝙡𝙩𝙨"
Those guys did it once, it worked, and now then seem to expect the same solution to never not work. Not to necessarily agree with such a method, all things considered, but by that definition alone, they seem pretty sane to me...
Edit: made excerpt bold for emphasis.
@Mr.Mediackre the different results is the experience they want to relive. Which is funny cause there's the Classic Era servers right there, and SoD, and Hardcore. 3 flavors of that experience.
To want to continue to go back to an unchanging, eventually stagnant game and world thats meant to grow (its an MMORPG) is insane to me, especially since it hasn't even been 5 years (and as I said, the era servers are *right there*).
I miss jungle inferno
Back when you had hope
for me, I just wanted the major heavy update 2
@@starmaker75 Heavy may have gotten (arguably) the best new item in that update, but he still needs more love.
As a Medic main, I would personally love a new weapon in any slot. Medic has so few options.
@@irregularassassin6380yeah as a medic main, medic needs some rework with his weapons and one or 2 new weapons to make things interesting
@@starmaker75 I'm gonna say le big bad, but none of Medic's melee options and potentially added new ones can shine as long as the Ubersaw remains in its current state. Same goes for needle guns and the crossbow. The only spot where Medic doesn't have a "straight-up upgrade" is in his Mediguns where all of them are viable (Quick-Fix my beloved).
That sounds great... SO GIVE VALVE THE PETITION AND GIVE US DIRECTION. You aren't telling people what to do other than 'Say the same thing over and over for 2 months'. Don't wait for the summer update. Get the movement up and running again!
Fuck it, the hell would we even lose if we tried to do it again?
I'm all for it!
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460as if we had those to begin with!
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 No mercenary has all three. We can afford to lose some.
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 I have none 😁
@@yazidefirenze Said like a true Mann Co. Merc!
@@purpleday12275 Thank you! (dies on the spot)
Spread this video around, otherwise Valve won't do shit.
"TF2 community we hear you."
They aint doing it anyways so... share ahead, it changes nothing.
2 years ago...
Keep the pressure on Valve. Do not let the cycle of radio silence continue
You know what? I will share it with a TF2 friend. Will not do anything, but why not? I mean, I have nothing to lose for this game.
This guy is going to get the entire government of Venezuela to make Valve do something about TF2
As a venezuelan, XDDDDDD
"hell yeah" is the only thing I was thinking throughout this video
I've been here for almost a year, being a f2p, and I don't think i've heard a more genuine plan to keep pushing. This community is one of the most dedicated and (mostly) mature people i've ever met. This game feels like a family member I come to every once in a while to have fun with, if I want it to die, I want it in blazing glory.
Thank you for this. Also the WoW struggle comparison was absolutely beautiful. I played it for a while during 2017/18 and honestly this makes me want to boot up my old account again. UNITED WE STAND, SAVETF2!
the petition route is a must if we do another save tf2 and add that with better planning and more clear intentions and it could work.
I genuinely hope this works out for all of you tf2 players. Ive played since 2011 and got so sick of recurring bot waves that i just quit. Sold my entire backpack, removed from library. Never going back adter having played for 13 years
Jesus chill
"It might only be a 1% chance, but how many of you have unboxed Unusuals? 1% can happen."
IS A SICK FUCKING LINE, LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
SaveTF2 quickly became a circle-jerk, that when it was trending - People were more happy about the fact that the movement was on trending, than having it to get Valve's attention and bring change. The usual content grifters were like 'OMG I love TF2' then moved on and talked about something else, not to mention that the TF tubers or whatever were using the movement just for clicks and attention. I loved the game too but TF2 community, you kind of blew this. Any movement you start next will not have the same impact that the initial one had.
Fuck, has it really been 2 years?
But no matter, I'm down, let's fucking do this! #Savetf2
* #FixTF2
#Savetf2
Honestly in my opinion this video is such a breath of fresh air, most TF2 videos regarding the game’s state either seem way too optimistic or way too pessimistic but this I think balances the both out fairly well. Sure the original SaveTF2 wasn’t as big as a success as the community wished it to be, hell it’s debatable if it was even a success at all, but just because we didn’t get the desired outcome the first time doesn’t mean we should just sit on our behinds and watch the game suffer.
Criticism is great and I’m glad that some RUclipsrs are speaking their true feelings on the matter, but actual action is something we need instead of just wallowing in despair.
The same goes for positivity, but at the same time some people need to be realistic about the situation and realize that what we’re getting isn’t sustainable as well as the fact we have to do something about it.
It feels like white knights and doomposters both don't want to do anything about the game's state.
Perhaps they don't even play the game or in the worst case are bot hosters and cheaters.
Quit the defeatist attitude! only YOU can save TF2!
I want YOU for #FixTF2
The effort we put in got us a tweet from Valve, the first time the #savetf2 hashtag went viral. Enough people spread the hashtag that big streamers like moistcritical and the wonderful VA's for the game showed solidarity, and put some attention on it.
The second half-assed savetf2 wave had nowhere near the level support the first one got (because of lack of effort).
Therefore, by that logic: more effort = more results.
If people went out of their way to show up to a physical location to make some noise about the issue, then Valve would have to put some acknowledgement towards the issue at hand. It would look bad on them if they ignored actual people showing up to the place.
Even if only 50 people showed up, imagine the news that would come from it, not to mention people on social media showing support.
It doesn't even have to be a week long protest. Ideally, people show up for a day, and make some noise, (and be well behaved enough that they don't resort to rioting/violence) then leave.
It's a statement: "We showed up because we could, but there are more of us out there that care just as much. Please do something about the game that so many of us hold dear. We are here, and we are waiting for you to do something about it. We want answers."
We tell them what we want, and put the ball in their court. Then we should get a definitive response. It might be:
"We have no further plans for tf2 and we have decided that it's finally time to release the source code for the game so the community can take care of the game in its end-of-life."
Or
"We would like to be transparent and let you know that we are currently working on other projects for the next (insert lenght of time here). We are indebted to our investors and shareholders, and we need to address them first. We currently do not have the resouces to divert to development of the TF2. Once these projects are finished, we will resume development for bug fixes, exploit fixes, and add more content to the game. We appreciate your passion, loyalty and admiration for the game, but most of all, your patience. We look forward to being able to work on the game once our affairs are in order."
Or
"Hello TF2 community, it has been a long time since we gave the game any content or fixes. We are working on other projects that take first priority. However, we recognise that the game currently has lots of issues, and the problem has gotten out of hand. As TF2 has been a long standing source of supplemental income to the company via the players purchasing cosmetics and tour of duty tickets, we feel indebted to the playerbase for keeping us afloat. In an effort to curb the onsalught of bots, we are going to temporarily outsource the manpower needed to maintain the playability of the game. We are outsourcing the work to (XYZ company) and you should expect an update (insert time here). We intend to return to the IP at a later date, and provide a proper content update at a that time. Thank you for your continued support and patience."
Or it could be any variation of those examples. the worst thing that we are dealing with is this vague, wishy-washy, bullshit saying "we hear you.", but not doing anything about it. Then silence
We can force their hand if we at least try to make our voices heard.
This game means a lot to me (as evidenced by all this shit that I wrote) and so many others. I cared enough to write this, and I know that there are plenty of others that would show the same support. The only thing stopping us from doing this the lack of organization on our part to actually execute this.
Is it easy to be pessimistic towards this situation? Yes. Is this naïve thinking? Maybe, but, you lose 100% of all the Payload games that you don't rally your team together in the last minute for one final push where you mindlessly throw your body on the cart. Countless games have been won this way. We should take a page out of the merc's book.
Showing up to valve hq would make us look bad and make valve less likely to actually listen to us. They would more likely shut the game down. We need to covey ourselves in a way that makes people want to join our movement. Harrasing valve employees who don't have anything to do with this will not help.
Very well written!
Valve isn't a publicly traded company, btw. The private investors, while unknown for certain, are more than likely just the top brass of the company, like GabeN himself, and maybe a few other private shareholders.
@@KyleDavis328 I know they are not public. I was referring to their private investors.
Wait, isn't Valve a private company? Pretty sure they don't have any public shareholders to appeal to..
3:29 actually a sick line
Love your pfp, lol
25 more letters, we will do it again. Most men would think we are insane.
We are not most men.
We are downright fucking psychopaths, and we'll save this game if it kill us.
Gentlemen synchronize your deathwatches
WE ARE MERCENARIES !
We are mercenaries!
We are mann
Co
If it wasn't for the tf2 background gameplay, I would have forgotten it was a tf2 video
18:11 we can grab our sneako chairs and watch our game plowed.☠️
a year late to this joke bro
That ending though. At first, you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention.
i love you weezy, ur vids are the best and i like watching them
One thing that i think must absolutely be pushed for is giving matchmaking the ability to put players into community servers again. Since community servers are (or at least can be) moderated, the bots wouldn't be able to cause nearly as much havoc there, plus community servers can add custom weapons and balance changes, kinda like what creators.tf did years back. It's just that now players would be able to find those servers naturally through actually playing the game, instead of needing to be told about it outside the game, plus it lets valve not work on the game themselves since the community can handle adding things into the game. It probably wouldnt be a perfect solution, but I think itd be the best deal for all involved, valve doesnt need to work on the game, and the community still gets new toys to play with so long as the game itself functions. only problem i see with it being that initially most community servers would be kinda bad for while since so many have just been dead in the server browser for years, but once players start setting up their own servers that would fix it pretty fast
honestly if this doesnt work, there needs to be some third party matchmaking tool with *community official servers* something similar like a faceit client hosted by community server hosters, like a community collective and just replace the valve official servers and keep the vanilla matchmaking experience but with self hosting ones that can be moderated
@@banguseater the problem with community solutions like that is that new players wont know about them unless someone tells them, which would slowly kill the game over time with a dwindling playerbase, although it is still significantly better than nothing as titanfall 2's northstar has shown
Reminder that valve has an incoming game that could be a nice platform to speak
probably some overpriced VR trash no one cares about except Valve
@@TwistedFireX It's a third-person team-based hero shooter, for non vr
@@evdestroy4121 oh valve is making overwatch 3? Yeah right it’s just gonna be filled with bots and tf2 protesters
At least Valve will probably make a better version.@@lordofthehawks
Ayup, that's for sure gonna make you guys stand out as the good guys and not reaffirm the general concept people already have of the SaveTF2 movement.
We have an amazing vehicle for this in the form of TF2 classic. We should make coverage of that more public and shift the conversation towards valve’s playerbase getting their TF2 fix elsewhere if they don’t finally start putting the work in.
i really feel like the issue stems deeper into steam (the ease of access and account creation and bypassing bans) rather than the games themselves (cs, tf2, whatever) and the movent should kinda include this part
like really you should not be able to play any games untill you pay for the account (before commenting search up "steam 5 dollar policy")
@@Dr_Dan_ would be quite a kick in the balls for f2ps tho...
@@soupcan you still will be able to be a free to play in tf2 if thats what you mean. but if youre a man good of heart, you can pay those 5 dollars to get acces to everything (you do that anyway because its a policy) . its just hilarious that you can just go to a site, type some info and gey a 1000 accs fresh out of the oven.
@@Dr_Dan_ That would be like being a store owner and shooting a nuclear warhead at your customers because you suspect one of them might steal something, it would fundamentally destroy the dominance that Valve wants Steam to have
@@Artician no its like having a security guard in front of your store so dickheads would get some sense before they try to do anything stupid
This is it… the video that started it all..
I came expecting another #savetf2 movement, and got an entire history of WoW. I learned a lot from this.
17 year old game. That alone is something special. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
"and we played that card too early"
holy shit. LMFAO
that was so out of pocket lmaoo
as long as the game is still on steam there will be a community server with people playing it
All you need is 100 secret saxtons, 20 years of TF2 experience, and a spot on the development team. Then, you put all your trust into F1. That's how you save TF2.
Erm.. Its actually 16
WE NEED TO KICK MONSTA_YAMBO!
@@vodkawhisperer3923 I've been playing this game a lot longer than you have pal. I would know cause I helped develop it! I'm a tf2 coder BITCH
There's one big KEY factor that differs Blizzard from Valve though
And that's how they handle their employees
Blizzard tells their employees what to do while Valve tells them to work on what they want
Nobody wants to work on TF2, even if Valve sees 1 million people signing it, i doubt anything will change. Because no one working at Valve WANTS to work on TF2
thats why they should hand tf2 over to the comunity
Maybe we could ask to have them contract developers from the comunity or to create a branch dedicated to tf2 (i know they are utopian ridiculous ideas, but let me be high on copium)
or maybe make TF2 Source 2 or at least another team fortress game so there's no more spaghetti laghetti code?
@@scatteringsparks Yeah that's what baffles me, they could atleast work on porting the game so it's more easily workable on, or make TF3
But there has to be more than spaghetti code that makes the devs not work on TF2 or TF2 related projects
@@SnesySnas idk, maybe the community? the bots? the cheaters? idfk
Never thought I would be sitting down and be interested in a story about world of warcraft but here we are. You should really branch your content out!
Can't wait to see what yall got planned btw :)
"We can grab our Sneako chairs and watch the game get plowed, or we can do our best to intervene." holy shit
PUBLIC BOT NOTICE: If you see a player named "Mechinator" or some variation of that, kick it as soon as you can. It's a Sniper Bot.
what about people just calling themselves that? kick when you're convinced it's a bot
Rimworld players in shambles
@@Gefdragoon then they can simply not call themselves that. if you're gonna pretend to be a bot then expect to be kicked like a bot
@@Gefdragoon They have a Frieren pfp and write like a bot in chat, players like you are why bots can get away with kicking half the server because "wah wah they might not be a bot wah wah"
We also have the bots that use chat binds and sometimes even voice clips to get real players kicked and stop themselves from getting kicked.
Me : Wait's it was all bots
Other me scrolling through player data back to meet your match:
*Always has been*
Brothers in arms, we must #FixTF2 . Tell your friends the revolution lives on!
the answer you presented was: make private servers.
the answer you selected was: petition.
fumbled on the finish line.
im glad that tf2 got the community it has now, the community is the only reason this game isnt dead yet. be proud guys, you kept this gem alive for like a decade now
and u might be why its gonna blow up again soon
I don't know if you'll ever read this but I got a really gnarly idea.
We delete all cosmetics and discourage people from buying them. Not just from the store. From everywhere. We crash the market. But the purpose isn't to motivate Valve.
Zesty showed that the bots primary purpose is to get items to sell to tf2 item sites to sell to the public. So if we crash the market, we can really inflate the market to the point that keys are worth like 99999 ref or something and thus aren't able to sell items for a lot of money anymore. Unusuals become worth pennies. The bots are too expensive to maintain and the profit isn't worth it.
The operation will stop and Valve wouldn't have to lift a finger.
This is a interesting idea.
@@insomnia1873 it'll probably never work though since the tf2 people would rather have the game die than devalue their precious unusual hats
Specifically bot hosters
what we should do:
1. Go under valve HQ.
2. Protest.
3. Done.
Peaceful or violent protest
@@Jar_rate both?
@@PineappleDealer37 I mean, I could see that as a possibility but how would it go for both ways though?
How the hell is harassing valve employees going to help? That would make us look bad and make valve not want to listen to us.
@@NoName...... good point that’s a valid point
I remember staying up all night in the summer just to play MvM. I remember the window slightly open, the sun rising, the birds chirping, the cool breeze that I could feel with every breath, and that sweet summer morning temperature everything felt almost perfect in that moment, I’m glad that I took a minute just to sit there and look out the window just to take it all in. I look back on that night pretty often.
The Trout Population is mobilising
15:45
statistically, 1% is a very significant proportion over larger sample sizes. so if we have a 1% chance, that's basically a guarantee if we keep on trying. it's .01%, that's improbable, but 1% is still very much on the cards. and another example was the recent review bombing of war thunder to protest the economy changes. despite it only occurring on steam, and the boycott not working nearly as effectively as planned, it still made the dev team reverse the planned changes
15:15 You don't get this Weezy, WoW succeeded because Blizzard were just stupid, they had HOW many players wanting classic WoW? And what do WE have? Our real player numbers are pathetic in comparison to WoW, they won because there was money in it to make, so WoW Devs swallowed their pride for the dolla.
So I'd argue those toxic players who constantly tried to held onto Tf2ubers indirectly had it right, if we want TF2 to get any change we really need to grow the playerbase, obviously don't be toxic about it I hope I don't have to say it.
Also video doesn't take into account that CS2 struggles with similar issues with VAC, so if we really want to win, we NEED for CS2 to have their WoW Classic moment, they're the only playerbase big enough to make Valve care. So maybe if TF2 and CS2 players can put their differences aside and work together to demand for better Vac we could get something going.
Alternatively I genuinely think it may be possible to squeeze from Valve concessions on autonomy, grow Tf2Classic popularity, by making it closer to vanilla TF2 and then grow it's playerbase and demand Valve to give community more autonomy, they could still have their own unique community crates or other stuff and Valve would still take whatever money cut they need. Seriously the early TF2 was as popular as it was due yo community servers, it's time for thek to come back in strength, focus all strength on promoting one community server mod(and I mean mod, like TF2Classic and not Uncle Dane servers please I don't want endless engies 😢) and hopefully we can cook something.
TL;DR 1)If we going WoW route then get the alliance with CS2 community, get them to help us push general VAC update movement.
2)Or we can go Autonomy route and try to push Tf2Classic(or just get a new mod that is just vanilla TF2 with super rare updates)to become new vanilla way to experience TF2. Maybe the Casual button will now auto redirect you to custom TF2 mod that's 90% vanilla or more
3)Or again, go back to our roots and promote community servers.
I know the games aren’t even nearly as active or alive on the same level as TF2, but Unreal Tournament and UT2004 are both still kicking and the whole reason is community servers. The master server for UT99 was shut down ages ago so literally every aspect of the game is managed by the community, small though it may be. TF2 is lucky to still be supported by Valve, so I think the hope lies in the community really banding together, it’s worked in the past.
I don't think the "devs" swallowed their pride so much as the C-level execs told them to.
Sounds like you're onto something here. I'm not sure how doable it would be to get enough of CS2's playerbase to band together with the TF2 playerbase, but it can only lead to benefits for both parties.
Plus, in the end, even if we don't get our demands met, this alliance could still lead to larger community growth and interaction between bases, which could bolster numbers and morale for another attempt later down the line. You have quite a compelling plan here, and I'm personally on board with it!
Being 'alive' isn't necesarily 'living' if you aren't really living out your life. Even if there is a good chance of failure, it is much better to try to 'live' then to just stay 'alive' slowly rotting away. TF2 is THAT kind of game that has the chance to 'live' again. Just as Sun Tzu said, "If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight!"
Thanks Banana man, very cool!
I don't want to be pessemistic, but here's my two cents.
For one, the #saveTF2 movement happened during the pandemic. This was a time where more and more people were either returning to or playing TF2 because everyone was stuck inside. It was also towards the middle of the quarantines, so not only were people bored, they were over it/pissed off.
This is why so many protest and online movements saw large scale support during that time. More people, less things to keep them occupied. Obviously comparing #saveTF2 to other movements is pretty silly, but in function, it's similar.
Additionally, the whole issue with the reduction in bots after #saveTF2 is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. People raised a ton of attention for the game, which led to more people PLAYING the game, which meant less and less spots for bots to get in. I'm not saying that it didn't maybe make the bot hosters question whether they should keep going, but it wasn't like Valve really did anything to fix the problem. The community just made the game more populated for a brief period of time and drowned the bots out.
#SaveTF2 as a movement didn't really do anything because Valve effectively only saw positives from it. Sure people gave them some harsh words on Twitter but ultimately, the game saw larger player interaction and most importantly, more purchasing. I think it's hard to deny that more people most likely bought the "summer update" crates and cosmetics, etc. than the previous ones, and even the player increase alone would have told Valve "hey, people are happy, sending need to do anything".
TF2 is a literal cash cow for Valve. They don't need to update it really, except to implement things created by others. They don't need to do anything except release community-created cosmetics and watch the money roll in. Basically all they need to do is pay for the servers.
Again, I know this is pessemistic, especially because boycotts...don't work, especially with a community as addicted and dedicated as TF2. But the only, and I mean the ONLY way for this game to change is if Valve sees the money leaving. And even then, maybe they just officially end support forever if people don't make it clear WHY they aren't getting their money anymore.
Bro wrote a whole essay for basically no one to see it
True. Hopefully the community can find a way to get their attention in a way that matters.
@@ziphy_6471I mean I just wrote my thoughts while watching the video, I don't really care if people see it or not. Just wanted to voice what I was thinking.
@@eagleeye5189 Brother, no offense but you could've used your time in better things
thanks weezy for being optimistic about tf2 because there is so much negativity in the tf2 community
Everyone became a doomer after the zesty video dropped, even beforehand they were super nihilistic
@@CheeseChurger true
@@CheeseChurgercan you even blame them? We literally are holding onto false hope at this point. After two SaveTF2 Movements, Valve didn’t fix the Bot Crisis! Would you even be optimistic after that? Two movements didn’t even make Valve fix the Bot Crisis, of course they would be nihilistic about it!
@@apolloknight9521 The first movement was rushed with no real goal besides "Valve notice us senpai!!!", and most people don't even know the second movement happened. I say we must fix what didn't work before, just as WoW users did. The only real losing move is to give up.
@@apolloknight9521 there was a second movement?
Community: trying to be constructive and respective
Companies: being destructive and psychopathic
Every damn time. People just refuses to learn.
To quote sniper "Lets have a go at it!" #FixTF2