The Future Of Bethesda And The Creation Engine - Luke Reacts
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
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it's called the creation engine because it's been around since god said let there be light
Let there be light? More like Let there be gameplay😂
Still waiting on that gameplay maybe in a few thousand years they will learn. @@fawazgerhard2742
This is such a terrible take. You do realise the original version creation engine isn't older than a lot of the most popular game engines. Like every other game engine they get updated over time
No God said let there be Todd!
@@qwertyvypez 🤓☝️
The problem is that Todd, and due to his leadership, Bethesda haven't evolved to keep up with the technology advancements. He's stuck in 2010 game design.
And yet, this game is way worse than anything made before 2010 in my opinion.
Even in 2010 the main story and world building in Starfield would have been terrible. Mass Effect came out in 2007. Its not just the technical side that has major problems.
The problem is modding. No other engine can do what Creation can with modding.
If you play Skyrim mods you know there are modded Skyrim games that look better than Starfield does. There are modded Skyrim games that look a step below the current top games out there.
So the visuals can be improved with the current engine.Bethesda has done a bad job recently with what they have. When modders can make a game look better than the studio can there is a problem.
I do think they will switch to Unreal after Todd leaves. There has just been too much blowback with Fallout 76 and Starfield.
Good game design is timeless, Starfield isn't outdated it's just a shit game.
yeah even mass effect 2010 is better than this trollop@@crispycaptures
"Future Of Bethesda"
Skyrim remastered very special epic ultra limited platinum collection anniversary game of the year legendary edition
I’ve never heard that one before
would still be better than starfield and id probably buy it lol
When is the pre-order?
You forgot “ platinum “ lol
Or simply - Skyrim Remastered
Todd most likely has a synth Todd or a Todd clone that will take over. Maybe even Howard Prime.
“ONLY ENEMY SYMPATHIZERS WOULD SUGGEST C-ENGINE REPLACEMENT ! HOO-RAHH !”
- 🤖 TODDBERTY PRIME🇺🇸
That’s why Fallout 4 was synth propaganda. They’re not human! They’re abominations! Technology run amuck.
They took 8 years to develop Starfield and over half of that game is procedurally generated.
How could they work any slower than that?
Good point!
Lazyfield
The only way it could be slower is if their name was Cloud Imperium Games
This is a New IP Title for god sake.
it took Skyrim 5 Title before it become Crazy Success,
it took Fallout 3 Title before it reach Mainstream success.
and you expect Starfield to be success with only one Title?
it's very Normal for New IP to Flop at first.
i think people should check their expectation.
like, can you create a single NPC in starfield?
if you can't then why the hell
you throw unrealistic expectation on people when you're not quite as competent yourself?
let's don't forget that you'll be slow as Snail compared to the Weakest Bethesda Employees
if Bethesda Hire you to work on Starfield
Starfield introduce a new Shipbuilding, ship combat and other mechanics as well,
they did the right thing using Fallout Gameplay as a base.
everything that they did wrong will be easily fixed in Starfield 2 or 3.
they could do everything from Terraforming the planet, Populate the Whole planet with Buildings & Vegetation,
Mecha Battle, Rover & secondary Fighter Aircraft.
but they had to figure out what work and what didn't first, before they can scale it exponentially.
i think it's very unrealistic to handcraft every planets,
and they're still figuring out the best way to craft the Planets in starfield.
but, also, they can use the current Procedurally generated planets, and really Improve it to the Max.
make it less Empty and put more Stuff to it.
but it's hard to know what feature that people like or dislike first,
therefore, new Title tend to be bad at first, and will get better with new iteration release
@@jensenraylight8011 It's not uncommon for new IP's to be immediately succesful either. Last of US, Red Dead Redemption, Horizon Zero Dawn, Cyberpunk, Sekiro and the list goes on.
Also Skyrim is not the best example IMO because that was already a step back compared to Morrowind and Oblivion. Skyrim just released at the right time and it was the gateway drug to RPGs for many people. Fallout also went downhill after 3, not counting NV because that's from Obsidian.
I'm not a game developer but that doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion on certain dev teams.
"They could do everything from Terraforming the planet, Populate the Whole planet with Buildings & Vegetation,
Mecha Battle, Rover & secondary Fighter Aircraft."
Dude you are way too optimistic. Yes they could do all these I guess but are they going to? That's very debatable.
And it's not like Starfield is that different from Fallout in terms of mechanics so I don't really see why this game couldn't have been much better. They had time, they had money, they had tons of people and a console that's much more capable than the previous one.
Elder Scrolls 6 will be a shell of what the franchise used to be. I hope I’m wrong, but if their last 3 games have been an indication of what to expect… good luck.
enjoy your loading screens in ES6. loading screens, terrible character skins/textures and ganky environments are now hallmarks of the Creative Engine that are part of the "Bethesda" signature "DNA".
And Es6 will still be outdated when compared to Cyberpunk 😂😂.
@@cosmancho2959 Cyberpunk is an eyesore to look at.
@@toshtao1 No?check your 👀
@@cosmancho2959 I will never understand why people like Cyberpunk. Tacky game.
Todd Howard "I want to make games forever!"
Everyone "please don't"
He's beyond washed up lol. He's become arrogant and nobody in the building is allowed to question his calls or say no to anything he wants. That old dog can't be taught anything new
Todd please for the love of all that is holy, don't leave us in the hands of Emil Pagliarulo PLEASE
I doubt Pagliarulo will replace Todd. Regardless of how it sold out the gate the game is a flop and I feel sure Phil Spencer knows that and is disappointed.
@@ANGRYWOLVERINE2060-ft2nc Not really it still sold well and that’s what matters to MS they don’t give a fuck lmao
@@acev3521I’ve seen no evidence that it sold well, and given that MS refuses to release sales figures - that tells me the sales were underwhelming.
him and Emil are both wash up old farts that think they're geniuses
Honestly a change in leadership for Bethesda may be a good thing for the future
Every excuse Todd and others at Bethesda have used to justify not changing their habits all boil down to _"we're stubborn and lazy and you just have to live with that."_
They have *zero* excuses otherwise.
The departure of Todd and Pete might be the best thing to happen to modern day Bethesda.
I have a feeling things will just go more downhill once that happens tbh
@@Hungry4doordashThat's possible, but if they stay I very much doubt that things would ever improve. They're wedded to the past it seems.
I agree; unless Emil takes over Todd’s role - in which case the studio will put out slop that is barely functional.
Emil needs to go as well
@@vincentnguyen777 why he writes great stories such as son leaves vault in search of father or my personal favorite father leaves vault to search for son
Sales decide what happens. If Starfield is financially very successful, then there's no reason for them to change anything for their future projects.
well the game sold well out the gate but I have doubts it will keep selling and doubts the dlc will sell unless the modding tools are on par with skyrims.
I also think a lot of the sales numbers probably had a lot of Game Pass users and we don't really know how bad refunds were for it. The Refunds could have been horrible. I am sure many might have started seeing the reviews, played the mining sim, then refunded after the one guy just kind of gives you his ship and enslaves you into Constellation against your will Pokémon Style with the Yes or No prompt. Where no does absolutely nothing, might as well have G-Man take away the illusion of free choice for me.
Some folks are around any industry long enough, they can also just call it quits cause they had a good run.
@@ANGRYWOLVERINE2060-ft2nc The hype sold it not the core game itself. Gamers wanted refunds too
@@ANGRYWOLVERINE2060-ft2ncI think the inevitable low DLC sales will show them just how burned even the people who bought it are…
The problem I'm seeing with modern development, is everyone is so focused on buzz words like Ray-Tracing, Photorealism and FSR, that they aren't focusing on full-scale destructibility and real-time deformation. Games are looking better, but they aren't nearly as dynamic or interactive as they could be. In short, I like good-looking buildings and trees, but I can't blow any of this stuff up. It's still all canned animations and contextual inputs.
Enshrouded does that nicely. Surprisingly got addicted to it along with Helldivers 2
Alot of tech that can render beautiful objects and lighting, not enough trained programmers and coders that can really push interactivity and emergent gameplay forward. All of those types are getting pushed into other areas of tech coz gaming companies are brutal to work for and don't pay enough
@@gman7497 It really is a disappointing thing to see these companies squander so much potential, just to rake in a few extra bucks for shareholders.
@@gman7497 Problem is : nobody has enough money to use such expensive tech except for streamers and 1 dad out of a 100.
@Nico78Not yup, once again top end hardware is out the range of most people. I am fortunate enough to have fairly new and powerful laptop and yet I still feel behind with all the path tracing, ray tracing etc.
Todd is thinking about his legacy since at this moment he is known as a cheating liar that made a lot of gamers lose money.
Tod didn't make "gamers" lose their money it's the gamers stupidity and naivety that made them preorder a game before even seeing a single review.
Broke my skyrim game mods several times.
@@Nimosomething if somebody says i will create an electric car that will be able to fly and if you preorder you get a discont.. people will preorder and if then the car they receive is not Electric and it does not fly you can held him accountable for lying. This is the same case.
@@robeiur bruh they lie because they know the money they will get from preorders and early sales far outweighs the expense of any lawsuits. But on the other hand you can't lie about cars main functionality because they cost much more, the danger it might cause but also simply because most judges are old and don't understand the "importance" of a video game not to mention dishonest marketing concerning such game as much as they might do with cars.
Sue or move on as I said never pre-order video games or anything else before watching the reviews.
@@Nimosomethingjust accept it bud, he’s a conman that promised the moon & stars for Starfield and delivered something that is pathetic in each and every way. He’s been doing this for over a decade, walking a fine line between lying and hyping up his game in vague statements that ultimately have led to where we are now,,, Bethesdas reputation is in the gutter and they deserve every bit of it.
I think someone should point out to Todd that even given the detail in AC Origins (and Odyssey) you can still fly up using the eagle and the engine is more than capable. Its insane in a spaceship game from 2023 there's no actual planetary flying. Add the fact that the more you play, the more the game corrupts and crashes. It's staggeringly bad.
Actually, given Skull & Bones someone should also point it out to Ubisoft...
planetary flying ? most games don't have that, let alone games with thousands of high quality assets.
Give me one game that does that with polygons.
@@coffee7180😮😮😮😮😮❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@@AnywhereMiami stupid take
@coffee7180 Well what would you mean by planetary flying? Are you suggesting games that are tailored to flying in low to outer atmosphere don't exist? Because there are many, like Starfox, Ace Combat, simulators like X plane and Microsoft flight simulator, Project Wingman, HAWX, What about open world games like GTA, Just Cause, Saints Row 2, probably some others I don't even know.
If you mean by low orbit to atmosphere flight the The only games I know that do this is No Man's Sky, Kerbal Space Program, Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous.
Starfield does none of that, But the only way to achieve planetary flight in the creation engine is basically make it a separate level, Bethesda would have to find a way to hide it by making a seamless transition.
@@AnywhereMiamipeople don't realize that Bethesda games have the modding they do because of the love the fans have for the games... Not the engine himself.
And on the 3rd day , God Howard said let there be the creation engine , and on the 4th , he said let there be 16x the bugs..
It’s just works.
@@benedekgabor. and I believed it, that sparkle in his eye, god dam Godd Howard…
@@JoseCruz-e9u seriously I fear that TES:VI will be a shitshow. I just don’t want them to fuck it up.
@@benedekgabor. with that change in direction that was Fallout 4( gameplay wise was a great looter/shooter, I could shit a better story than what we got) the disaster that was 76 , and the mediocre that is Starfield, I don’t blame you for fearing ES6 , I’m right there with you
@@JoseCruz-e9u I’m not expecting anything groundbreaking really. I just hope that the story will be fine and the gameplay will be smooth but yeah… Personally I liked Fallout 4. I know that a lot of Fallout fans wasn’t too happy about it because it had fewer RPG elements than Fallout 3 but imo it was still a good game. Fallout 76 tho? Lmao it was a shitshow honestly, and I got turned off as player to play another Bethesda game. I wasn’t really surprised by how Starfield turned out after how they handled FO76.
A lot of resignations are actually firings; just something to keep in mind
Yes. Its resign or be fired. Easier on HR for the paperwork and reduces the chances of a lawsuit.
yeah, it's resign or we'll make it so you wanna quit....
the whole way corpos do stuff now it terrible, it's never just you fukkled up you're fired, get yer shit yer out!
even that would be better than leading people on, making em work and seeing everyone around em get canned then their number comes up and the company is too cowardly to just do it in person.....its why I'll never work for a corporation! i despise the culture and I always have every time the environment pops up in TV and movies, it's never looked like a good idea and I'm gen X
suit and tie for a job where the public never even see's you?? insanity might as well lower yourself into the early grave yourself eh?
a simple JETSON!! YER FIRED!!! is better than the new corpo rigamarole they now do.....
Nah, It's coping
Creation engine is the perfect example of the sunk cost fallacy
not really
@@Xfacta12482 How so?
@@nrh0320 It works for Bethesda's game design, and if Starfield had stayed true to the Bethesda formula, it might have worked well with the Creation Engine. The procedural generation is a significant issue here because it can never be optimized for the dense exploration and looting gameplay that Bethesda is known for, so Bethesda failed, and not the engine.
Really, all I am trying to say is that the Creation Engine works well if used properly, but Bethesda just didn't play to its strengths and tried to realize the wrong idea.
It's the reason I play BGS games almost exclusively.
It’s not the engine, it’s a dev issue.
I like the interview NoClip did with a former Bethesda dev. I’m paraphrasing but the dev mentioned that doing simple tasks like tweaking the damage of all weapons would be fast and easy in Unreal. Trying to do that in the Creation Engine would be more difficult. That was one example. I’m pretty sure there are a lot of examples of how Unreal is superior to CE.
I am of the opinion that the creation engine isn't nearly as bad as people think it is. The problem, and this falls squarely on BGS' shoulders, no doubt, is that the last two games necessitated technology that the creation engine was never meant to perform (I think BGS had very little to do with the ideation of 76, but thats besides the point). When used to make a game that BGS does really well, specifically a handcrafted open world snadbox rpg, it performs very well. It's not a looker, but it doesn't have to be. The animation isn't outstanding, but it doesn't have to be. When Fallout 4 came out, it was buggy, but people were generally satisfied with the engine's performance in those areas. I think it's clear that the engine has been upgraded since then, and I know we like to clown on "Creation Engine 2," but I truly believe a back to basics BGS game that plays to the strengths of both the studio AND the engine instead of their weaknesses will show that the engine is still very capable of delivering incredible games.
What worries me most about all this is, I think people are underestimating just how integral the modding scene is to the ascendance of Bethesda over the last couple of decades so what happens there if they switch engines? Yes, the Creation engine is clearly well past its sell-by date but without the Creation Kit, would they even feel like Bethesda games anymore? If switching means losing that. Personally, I'd take that old engine (for all its flaws) over UE5 or whatever they might choose.
This is a discussion I've had a few times myself, I agree about the modding community being essential for Bethesda games, but they need a new engine and they have Microsoft money and they can justify the costs of a new engine etc by using their history as a company, get some really good software engineers or whatever and build a new engine around the idea of modding with a more modern architecture, I don't know how that all works but innovation isn't impossible.
@@stargate1990 the problem now is though, given Microsoft's track record, just how mod-friendly will Bethesda games be in future, if at all? I seriously believe the 'golden age' of gaming is done. Most AAA titles now are owned by a tiny handful of mega corporations & gaming is becoming like the movie industry, where they're so ridiculously expensive to make that they simply won't take risks. It'll all be just more generic slop, always online so they can sell idiots more useless shite & definitely anti-modding community.
@@jubei7259 I would hope that Microsoft would understand that the reason Bethesda became as big as it is is a lot to do with the modding community and would work with them to ensure they remain capable of making top quality games whilst integrating the ability to mod.
I completely agree about the state of the games industry and entertainment in general, a crash is coming, and with the advent of AI and the speed it's getting better, I predict that the games industry will go through a massive change.
When Todd compares his starfield with rdr2, that is proof that he is a liar or stupid 😂
It's not that he compared those 2 games. It's that he wanted to capture the feeling and tone of something similar in RDR2. AND HE FAILED MISERABLY. His game has no soul, no dynamics, no lore, no reactivity, nothing. Just scripted, brainless walking and shooting.
Starfield is the greatest game ever
@@504Treyit could’ve been better.
@@504Treyif your standard for greatness is being bad then yes it's one of the greatest I've ever seen
@jbgaming3221
Every game ever made could've been better so you're not saying much 💀
I do think that Creation Engine needs a full rework, but I don't want Bethesda to ditch it. Creation Engine, from my modding experience, is very easy to work with. When I tried to mod Cyberpunk and ARK, I just couldn't do it, it was too hard and too limited. Creating new quest lines in Cyberpunk is borderline impossible. Creation Engine and the mods it allows to be created are the sole reasons Skyrim and Fallout 4 are still in the top 80 most played games on Steam month after month, year after year.
The problem with the Creation Engine though is how difficult and limiting it is to work with. Developers are extremely slow to test their code due to how the engine simply functions in comparison to Unreal or even Unity. There's also the issue of hiring specifically *engine programmers* with deep familiarity of the Creation Engine to fix the core issues/bugs that have been recurring over the years. The mod support is great, sure , but a lot is lost with this engine and it is becoming increasingly archaic for newer staff.
@Gizzgy imo, the ideal solution is to open source the creation engine, upgrade the mod tools to the point where it's basically an RPG maker, sell the thing for 40 bucks and let the modding community go to town, in the meantime, grow your staff, and develop all your new games with a new engine, UE5 or what have you.
@@gman7497 unfortunately that solution is unlikely since it conflicts with their continual efforts to monetize mods as micro transactions via their newly updated creation club platform. It's also likely a huge reason why they will not move on from the engine, because it would not allow for the pay-for-mods model they have full control over now
@Gizzgy yeah they need to drop the creation club idea, I mod BGS games and idk of anyone that doesn't absolutely despise the concept. The mods on places like Skyrim Nexus are 10x better than any of that crap.
@@gman7497 I agree, and not supporting the creation club is not to say that mods can't be used for the modders gain. I fully support modders leveraging their creations for support through websites like Patreon, or creating a portfolio to help with employment in the field should they choose to enter it. Plenty of studios look at that stuff (even if it's not on the engine they're using) as evidence for the applicants motivation, competence, and skills depending on the amount and complexity of their published works.
Bethesda DOES have documentation, they have a design wiki, which is the industry standard ever since the 2000s when the industry abandoned central design documents because games were getting too big for one .pdf. A game of telephone was played where "no central design document during pre-preproduction" turned into "no documentation!"
Sometimes Luke radiates a definite "pseudo-intellectual" vibe.
Still didn't work out for them
Maybe when they say the Creation Engine allows them to work faster, they mean they're so used to it that it would take them too long to learn something new.
That's actually a fair point. People are already clamoring for TES6 and FO5, those games would be like 10 to 15 years out if they stop now. That doesn't necessarily mean they shouldn't change but I can definitely understand how from a business prospective that is pretty daunting.
Luke, they don't use a single design doc. Almost no studios do this anymore, they use internal wikis. Design docs is only used in very small projects as it is a hassle to update.
so in a sense, an internal wiki is pretty much the same thing as a design doc right?
i mean that's how this sounds.
@user-tp5yb4hr4w It's a lot more comprehensive, but yeah. I'm just tired of hearing the comment that Bethesda didn't use a design doc, and that's one of the reasons Starfield sucks. Cause while they don't use 1 pdf bible like the old days doesn't mean they had no design plan, they had 100s of large wiki pages going in detail for every single element in the game.
@@mar5362
yeah i would say that's a good point, however the writing is bad, and though i have enjoyed some of Emil's writing in the past, this game seems like he needed a lot of help to get it right.
well it didn't help them with starfield very much.
@@mar5362 Their design plan was awful.
Toddy is no gamer. just a slick oil salesman!
In my opinion it's a case of an old man being set in his ways and doesn't want to change with the times. He likes the creation engine cause it's his engine.
If they moved to UE5 he'd have to learn UE5 and he doesn't want to. I think the cost of updating that engine and finding people to work with it (or train them up cause that's the reality) is going to make MS tell them to use UE5.
I give Todd a lot of criticism but I do believe he loves making games. I hope they can turn Starfield around. I’m extremely skeptical but I would be cool if they were able too
I hope they do too, but also I’d like them to focus on fixing their stuff and making TES6 incredible. If they mess that up I and I’m sure many are done with Bethesda.
They'd pretty well need to rework the entire game to turn it around.
@@snoop4470 agree. The amount of rework needed done to get Starfiled into acceptible shape is so vast that Cyberpunk 2.0 update and Phantom Liberty DLCs would look as low effort mini patches.
Yeah, knowing Bethesda what you see on day 1 is what stays...forever.
I want them to abandon it because “fixing” it would take years and years and further delay tes 6 and fallout. They need to just accept the game is garbage and move on.
Todd is prime example of someone with (allegedly) the passion of game development but settles with mediocrity with the majority of their game projects. Every game they had is half baked one way or another, we just gave a pass to the pre-2011 games since at that time games were known for being lowkey buggy.
the reason why there are no load screens for star citizen is because the game uses servers for the vast majority of the game, which these days is near limitless in space and rendering capability, starfield is a single player game that you install to your hard drive, everything contained within that space is limited do to your space.
at least this is where my thought process leads.
basically play any MMO, and you will get the same thing as star citizen large spaces rendered without load screens on the entire map.
Stop it. Just stop defending them fanboy. Cyberpunk and other games have far more detailed environments and manage it with no or very few loading screens. Stop making excuses for a shitty engine.
There are other space game that do it and they're not mmos
I definitely believe the Creation Engine makes them work FASTER, because it is so limited in what it can do that every element of their games follow a speedy process that inhibits any kind of innovation.
If it ain't broke don't fix it, welp, I'd say the creation engine is broken at this point. Time to change with the times
Bethesda doesnt want to use another engine because they already have one and another would cost money. Profit over everything. They've even bred their fans to expect low quality and pass it off as a quirk
maybe, but Microsoft owns them now, so i don't see how that makes a whole lot of sense anymore.
That might have been true with Zenimax.With Microsoft there is not financial excuse about getting Unreal.
It is important to note that using Unreal Engine 5 means there will very likely be no mod support now or in the future. Maybe the concept of modding AAA games is just outdated given how complicated they have become.
The worst thing is that I think TEOS VI will work even if it continues with the Creation Engine because they won't need to worry about a megalomaniacal idea of 1000 planets, they just need to make "a" vast and living map and it will be enough to convince the audience. The only way it could be the other way around is if Bethesda challenges itself artistically, as Rockstar does when developing GTA or Red Dead Redemption, but that is unlikely to happen, seeing how accommodating Bethesda is.
It is so cool to see the Unreal engine demonstrated, where it can add changes to the environment.... man is that awesome
I genuinely believe Bethesda has become incapable of making games without it.
Starfield basically NEEDED the engine change and was something they said they would do early on in the discussion of development of Starfield YEARS ago.
Then they just didn’t. Now you can’t even mod the game to open up the areas that are walled off because the engine just can’t do it.
Seriously you open up like a few hundred extra meters of area and the game starts crashing.
Why else would they do that unless they didn’t have a choice because they can’t figure out how to do anything without their proprietary engine anymore including upgrading that engine.
It feels like Some genius employee made this engine for the company a long time ago and they’ve just been riding it out ever since and that dude quit and they don’t know what to do😂
I'm sure others have pointed this out to you, maybe not, but when they say they don't use an GDD the context was that they don't have a SINGULAR document. They very likely use confluence or another similar software/platform for their design docs since they are living documents. Traditional GDD are not living docs and were intended to remain mostly the same throughout production. Game development is much more agile in the last 10 years compared to 15-30 years ago which is why Bethesda, as with every studio using currently workflows, does NOT have a game design document (they have many design documents for different aspects of the game).
Man, if ES6 isn't a "best of the generation" type of game I have a feeling BGS is going to end up like Bioware. A big industry name that made great games in the past but just can't put the pieces together in the correct order anymore. Especially with Todd leaving, I would have very little hope for their next game which I assume would be Fallout 5.
“Todd Howard is Bethesda” yeah that’s the problem, it’s been crystal clear for a while now 😂😂😂
With how outdated Starfield is, Bethesda needs a new direction.
Outdated? Did you even play it or just listen to people in RUclips making couch bate videos?
They can dub it “ The New Direction Engine”
@@harty3113 Cyberpunk and Phantom Liberty make Starfield look like a fossil.
@@Nico78Not they are completely different games though. Cyberpunk is a limited open world that is basically a linear experience. Starfield is the very definition of open world. Not to mention that one of the biggest things the creation engine does, cyberpunk can't do. You cant drop a gun in cyberpunk, play for 100 hours and come back and it still be there. You can do that in starfield. You can leave a piece of food on a random planet, not visit is for hundreds of hours and it will still be there. It's not an outdated engine. You just don't understand it
@@harty3113 Copium going on strong I see.
I said it when Starfield came out and said to my friends that it just didnt match up to anything substantial, Creation Engine is outdated and was the achillies heel for starfield.
I suspect Todd was hoping for modders to come in and do there magic by allowing such a "vast" space be usable but forgot a modding community shouldnt be what makes your game good. as much as people hate UE5 due to performance woes, I still think starfield could have been half the size, given enough developement time be done on UE5 and still achieved the goal Todd wanted and then some.
This doesnt even touch on the Creation Engine itself and how difficult it is to work with from past devs but due to the creation engine being Bethesda exlcusive this also limits your talent coming in because you wont hire someone who has several years of Unreal Engine experience expect them all of a sudden to do some magic on the creation engine so I believe in this respect this also limited Starfield's creative juices because the dev team while "good" more than likely still had to work within the constraints of the engine (hence loading screen simulator) and the "zones" when landing on planets with no full planetary exploration being possible like SC or NMS with fully traversable planet surfaces.
As someone with nearly 10 years experience in UE4 and now starting to learn UE5 and its quirks, Creations Engine just doesnt work for the current needs to today and hardware, its simply too outdated and overhaulling the engine cn only get you so far to a point you might just be best ditching it in favour of an engine that has been designed from the ground up with open world in mind
Nms free looks like bunk, sc is a tech demo with so many bugs that it would put Redfall to shame.
"Not Using Design Doc In Starfield."
Yes, because it is outdated thing in game development.
Nowadays large AAA studios use internal Wiki for their projects. Not Design Documents.
I love Starfield hopefukly they add to it like No Man's Sky did.
The thing is I think it got hyped for all the Call of Apex Lego Fortnite Craft players and it's not that. And it's not an infinite game it just has extra stuff outside the questing planets to basically grind xp and respurces or rp a lonely astronaut.
Starfield actually made me realize I don't really like RPGs
No, instead starfield made you realise that jealous toxic people called ponies could make a weak individual like you hate any game they want you to hate.
@@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo what
16:36 dude just outright say it... Emil has been nothing but a detriment to Bethesda, and he should be fired or at least demoted... We lost Kurt Kuhlmann, Michael Kirkebride, Ken Rolston and dozen lefendary dev more for this hack or a writer who can't even write his own presentations...
Great stuff Luke. I am reminded of the Obsidian film where they changed renderers mid-stream in development. It can be done, I just think BGS is resting on its laurels. Don't know about you guys, but no way in hell am I spending a dime on Shattered Space until BGS shows some SIGNIFICANT progress on addressing player concerns. I still want to know what the f*** they have been doing since September of last year? Working on an expansion that no one will want to buy b/c you borked the SF launch? Ugh.
I can't be the only one who distinctly remembers how disappointed I was when BGS announced they were "enhancing" Creation Engine instead of moving to a newer tech. This is the culmination of all that has come from their poor choice.
Todd's ninjas aren't enough
I don't mind the creation engine, if the game being made is like Bethesda's pre-Starfield titles. Where the entirety of what the game offers is peppered around a more-or-less self-contained regional map. When you start Skyrim and get out of the cave and have full autonomy on where to go, you can pick a direction and go, and if you stay on a road between settlements, you will have seen icons for points of interest pop up as you get near something. With Starfield, the scope of the game is way too big. so the same design model is incongruous with it. Instead of things being peppered all over a specific world region, it's scattered few and far between across a thousand plus regions that are not connected contiguously. It's not the same feeling. And with so many layers involved in getting from point A to point B, all of which require a load screen or transition animation, you really feel the opposite of immersed.
Also, experiencing story is more of a focus for Starfield, with exploration taking a back seat. This is not a bad thing.
If I had been the one calling the shots, I would have built the game around the stories, leveraging the New Game Plus mechanic to funnel the player into different stories.
One of the NG+ alternate realities at the lodge has you meeting a constellation team made up of different versions of the player.
I would have gone sort of a quantum leap direction. The first playthrough would always be the Constellation story, leading to the discovery of the Unity and becoming Starborn. The next playthrough would find you waking up in a reality where you are in the Vanguard. and you go through that story. Next one, you're Freestar Collective.
Each story, I would have included only the planets that pertain to the story.. with the galactic map not even being a thing until the story leads you to a new planet. Oh, I'd scatter a few sandbox planets into the mix where there are activities the player could do to earn money or find gear, but if the focus is to be on story, I'd keep everything relevant. After each playable faction is completed, you'd get pulled back into the Unity sequence, where you tell yourself how what you accomplished impacts humanity. I'd have saved the procedural crap for after all of the faction stories are completed, where the next reality is the player in a freelancer type role given a sequence of minor missions that have to be completed. Sometimes, the glue holding the fabric of reality together isn't made up of grandiose achievements, but rather being the right person in the right place at the right time. With the more compact nature of each reality's story, procedurally generating the events and locations would have worked. It wouldn't have been a typical Bethesda game, but it would have been more fitting to how Starfield is built in its current state.
I realize that might not be everyone's cup of tea... But Starfield as it is, isn't everyone's cup of tea, either, so touché.
Anyone who has ever seen a star citizen game play session, has never seen anything but 30 minutes of glitches and bugs or server fails
I actually think the engine is fine. I was actually surprised with how good the lighting in Starfield looks. It’s a huge upgrade from prior games. The game’s overall design is the issue.
Don't forget that Bethesda has what seems to be a large number of rabid fans who support the Creation Engine. These fans went as far as to say things like "It's easier to mod with the Creation Engine", or "The Creation Engine has been updated just much as the Unreal Engine, so a new engine isn't needed". I think these people are just loyally blind because they can't see the fact that certain problems with the Creation was never fixed since the days of Oblivion.
You mean a large number of rabid toxic ponies (& their appeasers) who hate and show their jealousy against a 9/10 game called starfield.
Todd needs to just leave, the vision ain't visioning anymore. We need that old Bethesda magic back!
"I can't even imagine what a Bethesda game would look like without Todd's influence"
The answer is: better,
The quest system of CK, when you know how to use it, does work pretty quickly. I think that's what they're referring to when they say it works faster.
I would not use anything Star Citizen related has an example of how to do things right.
The "game" is in development for over a decade, no release date for the single-player component, and progress on the multiplayer MMO well known as PU (persistent universe), is slow, clunky, full of bugs, errors, crashes, there are zero functioning NPCs, majority is T-posing in places, the enemy AI is basic, and since is tied to server performance they have 2 states, headshot you across the room in a millisecond exposition state, or frozen in place waiting for you to go and shoot it state, hardly any in-between, PVP or PVE with ships in space is a hit or miss, you can be hitting all your shots on your screen/client, but the server and the enemy client doesn`t recognize that action properly and the hits never count, but you did use all your bullets and now ran out of ammo, or laser that needs recharging.
SC is always the game of the future, and in the community we always joke that our Grandsons and Granddaughters will be playing the game we help fund. I would advise anyone to strafe away from SC until they have something substantial ready, as of now they do not, and CIG (the publisher/company) have never released anything on-time, within budget and with any degree of quality, every patch breaks the game, every bugfix creates another glitch, every improvement is a detriment to the server stability and performance, if this isn`t a red flag I don`t know what is, also don`t listen to players who loves SC, they are blind and have the sunk cost fallacy, people who bought ships that costs thousands of dollars and want their money to mean something, is like a cult enlisting members left and right.
I love it when Luke goes off on Bethesda. It brings me so much joy.
As for Todd getting too old: no he is probably making an AI that can replace him which has his consciousness inside it that can keep making new Elder Scrolls games as good as him. If that fails modders can basically remake all the ES titles which seems like what happening to Fallout 4 right now. Have you guys heard of the Fallout London mod? It's an entire game using Fallout 4 creation kit. Yes there are mods that massive. Who is to say these modders become full blown Bethesda employees in the future to carry on the torch?
Luke's voice convinces me he's Tyler McVickers brother...
Starfield was a mistake. Bethesda should just focus on making the elder scrolls and drop support on Starfield.
the game document argument is null and Void. no studios is using game document anymore thoses are a specific way of doing things with a single game document with every game desing info in it, its a relic from the late 90s 2000s Era now a day it would never fit in a single document we use different methodology with different game documents for design per game pillars/elements (character,enemies,story,UI, environements,levels. etc...) again almost no studios now are using the old way of doing things because its a lot less efficient and less dynamic especialy when the teams need to share all of it constantly.
Even if Bugthesda used Unreal Engine, their new games will still suck because the problem is also management.
Someone looked at the loading screens and said it was fine.
Yeah, it is not just the engine. Bethesda's RPG style is old. Just compare it to the quests in RDR2 and Cyberpunk, and even Assassin's Creed Origins.
It took a team of 100 people to make Skyrim for 3 and a half years, now they have over 450 devs working and at least 400 of them are working on elder scrolls 6, if you look at the tech and man power they have and more people joining each year 2026 is not out of the question but a more realistic release will be 2027. I look at dragon's dogma 2 when it releases it's going to 5 years of development with about 400 devs working on it but everything is handcrafted and will be 2 and a half times than Skyrim, but bethesda has the tech to cut the landscape workload into half they can procedurally generated the elder scrolls 6 map and than build upon the procedurally generated map, the best thing about Starfield was the environment that was truly was the best. Most of the work will be working on cities and towns and NPCs, this game will have the most cities and towns in a elder scrolls game. If the theory is to believe that high rock and hammerfell will be in elder scrolls 6 than it will be 2028 at least if not 2026 to 2027.
I am learning game design and my instructor told the whole class not to do what Bethesda does when making games and working with a game engine, the creation engine is good for physics-based games but not what Bethesda does with the engine, Bethesda has time and again pushed the engine to the point of not breaking but failing, Bethesda pushes their engine to the point of failure every time and it shows every time.
Your instructor is way too smart.
I'm guessing the reason they haven't opted into Unreal is because they've spent time building some custom dev pipelines specifically for their engine and they for some reason think that's...more valuable? lol
We desperately need Obsidian to succeed with Avowed. They're the only studio who may be able to push the Bethesda RPG formula forward.
I’m not very optimistic about the future of Bethesda Game Studios after seeing their last two games. Both games not only didn’t play into the Creation Engines strengths but Bethesda made upgrades to the engine that played outside of their gaming engines strengths. Maybe the only upgrade they’ve made to the engine that’ll be of any use is the multiplayer element they added with Fallout 76. But then again many of the developers that worked on Fallout 76 have since left the company stating it was a nightmare working with it. Starfield seems to have went through a “development hell” as well with how that game turned out. So going forward what do any of these supposed engine “upgrades” do for future Fallout and TES games outside of playing to the engines weaknesses and being a total headache to work with as a game developer? Fallout 4 came out in 2015 and I’d argue that the Creation Engine was far superior in that game than it looks to be in Starfield.
It’s not just the creation engine that is the problem. The writing is absolutely terrible too, and that’s a very big part of an RPG
Bait
@@RealRoboKnight It's true. The main quest isn't very good and only a few side quests are worth mentioning.
Starfield could be the best looking game with no loading screens and it would still be bad. The design isn't compelling. Combat is lackluster. Writing is terrible. There is no hook. Companions are paper thin. I don't think the vision is compelling. The game has nothing to say.
First of all UE5 is new. It wasn't around when Starfield went into production. What I notice about Todd Howard is his responses seem to be based on information that is a decade old.
oh please. even UE4 which was released in 2014 was vastly superior than CE 2.
@@optiondezzo1513 I'm not pointing to the graphics. It is about being fast to use. The reality is CE 2 still could be faster to use. It just might not give you the best results. As for Starfield taking a long time to make, 99% of what was prototyped may have been tossed.
I don’t get why it’s so hard for people to comprehend that Star Citizen is not comparable to Starfield. Star Citizen environments are nowhere NEAR as detailed as Starfield ones. Creation engine is not the problem, it’s just impossible to load all of the stuff in Bethesda worlds in the same way.
As long people will buy there games , its all not important.For Bethesda big money is most important.
I'll keep saying it. The load screens would not have been an issue if the writing and combat had been amazing.
But if you can't deliver on the quality of your sci-fi story, then your lame game technology is going to be the center of attention.
So tired of organizations being led by people who didn't know when it was time to step back and allow someone new to take the helm. Just because you were fit to lead something into growth doesn't mean your fit to lead it after it's grown.
I personally like the creation engine. Interacting with all the clutter is very unique. I think they should remaster Morrowind in CE2 and many people will see how great it can be with the right project
Yeah if the underlying mechanics and ideas of the game were solid no one would be talking about loading screens lol. Starfield has much bigger problems than the engine.
@@SpartanArmy117 I agree. If the dialogue/questing/story was actually interesting and not written by AI, it might be decent
Todd being defended here for almost being like a creative mastermind is baffling, considering the astounding success of Fallout 76 and Starfield. Just plain ridiculous bullshit. "Please keep making games for as fans until you die!". Unbelievable.
Luke says he likes to _chrome_ whilst holding a plastic lock bag with some clear liquid in it.
CDPR will absolutely regret moving to Unreal 5.
They are helping UE actually working on developing it to be better at making big open world RPGS. It’s a cool collab effort and so they are literally making it easier on themselves and Epic is giving them space to do so.
BGS could vanish tomorrow and no one would or should care.
Yes, I shit my pants every day, thank you for asking. While this admission may raise eyebrows and elicit incredulous stares, it's a reality I've come to accept and navigate with grace and humor. My daily encounter with this bodily function has shaped my perspective on life and taught me invaluable lessons about resilience, self-acceptance, and the power of humor.
Shitting my pants has become a routine occurrence, a mundane aspect of my daily life that I've learned to embrace rather than resent. Initially, it was a source of embarrassment and frustration, but over time, I've come to see it as a quirky quirk that sets me apart from others.
Navigating the challenges of shitting my pants every day has taught me resilience in the face of adversity. Despite the discomfort and inconvenience it may cause, I've learned to adapt and carry on with my daily activities without allowing it to hold me back. This resilience has translated into other areas of my life, empowering me to tackle challenges with a sense of determination and optimism.
Furthermore, shitting my pants every day has forced me to confront and accept my own vulnerabilities. In a society that often glorifies perfection and conceals flaws, openly admitting to a bodily function deemed taboo by many requires a level of vulnerability that can be both daunting and liberating. Embracing this vulnerability has allowed me to cultivate a deeper sense of self-acceptance and authenticity, freeing me from the shackles of societal expectations and norms.
Perhaps most importantly, shitting my pants every day has taught me the power of humor in the face of adversity. Instead of wallowing in self-pity or shame, I've learned to find the absurdity and humor in my situation, turning it into a source of laughter rather than despair. Sharing jokes and anecdotes about my daily struggles with friends and loved ones has not only strengthened our bonds but also served as a reminder that laughter truly is the best medicine.
In conclusion, while shitting my pants every day may seem like a burden to some, it has been a source of growth, resilience, and humor for me. By embracing this aspect of my life with grace and acceptance, I've learned valuable lessons that have enriched my life in ways I never could have imagined. So yes, I shit my pants every day, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
they know they have an immensely big modding community that both fixes stuff (and often on a super deep level) and makes big mods - total conversions, total overhauls of systems, graphics etc. that would not be possible with UE, there's no game with UE that has a thriving modding community like e.g Skyrim.
And of course, you don' hand place everything with their engine at all, you can absolutely generate bushes and vegetation etc.
They would disappoint a lot of people if they went with UE, only people who doesn't care about mods would prefer it.
When it gets to the point you CAN'T release A game within a DECADE, YOU got a...problem. Now a days it takes LONGER than it took humankind to form the agency and go to the moon. Really? REALLY?
People that blame the creation engine need to go watch videos of modded Skyrim. Same engine, same game, vastly different results.
Star Citizen has it's own issues too.
Bethesda saw Star citizen and no man’s sky and somehow decided it was a good idea to release a game who’s tech is at least a decade behind
Star citizen is not even out, it runs like shit even on high end pc because of the insane amount of cpu usage, digital foundry has a lot of videos about it. Starfield has to run on current hardware. No man's sky is using voxel and not polygon and has not even close to the detail in planets as starfield.
My hype was headshotted as soon as Todd announced the 1000 planets like it’s a revolutionary feature and after reading ex dev interviews it’s very clear that todd is stuck in the mid/late 2000s he is so out of touch that it’s crazy and it’s really sad because the best open world games like Elden ring and Botw took inspiration from skyrim yet the very same creators have no idea how to advance the formula.
Even if Luke lacks proficiency in other areas, he certainly excels as a talented pseudo-intellectual.
The simple fact of the matter is we don't need Bethesda anymore. Even back when Fallout 4 came out there wasn't really any other game like that. A mass appeal RPG. Which Bethesda games has always been. Would even go as far to say indie devs were still making small games. Thats all changed now. We have Baldurs Gate 3 with more to come from that game. We have Palworld. Helldivers 2 and similar games. Mass appeal indie games. If Bethesda goes away tomorrow. No one would notice the difference.
As long as ES6 remains a traditional fantasy single-player action style RPG, I’m in. Bethesda just has to paint within the numbers and everything will be alright…maybe not epic, but alright is fine for me. Jokes aside, if Skyrim ever receives a proper full remake in a future next gen engine which would include an updated audio mix in something akin to 3D/spatial Dolby Atmos, I’m in on that too.
i think Todd is focusing on the wrong detail in why they use the creation engine, he says it's because it helps them work faster, but what i believe the real reason is, is the modding capability's of the engine are near limitless in comparison to other engines, don't get me wrong other engines do a lot of things better than the creation engine, but what they don't come close to doing better in is the modding capability, even the red engine doesn't come close to how moddable their games are, however they have been given larger support for it in recent years.
in my opinion, the reason why bethesda doesn't want to give up the creation engine is it's natural ability to mod and make their games better over time, but i feel they need to put that effort into improving on the engine more than anything.
Trying to really decide what any given individual should feel about working in their 60s is also impossible. Every single human on this planet will have some varying thought about it all. One day he could also get up out of bed and think, this isn't it anymore. Who the heck knows. Humans are interesting.
I understand the point you want to make around 09:20, but as an unreal developer I think it's worth clarifying that there's a bit more work involved behind curtains than just clicking a few buttons - Epic is veeeery good at marketing their improvements ;) but absolutely, their aim is to make AA / AAA game dev faster. My only hope is that it does not become a monopoly (which is already kinda feels like), I'd be curious to hear your take on the topic more in detail. Thank you for the great content!
Asking Luke about Starfield is like asking vegan about meat! ;)
BGS needs to evolve, they're becoming this generations Sierra games. I would be curious to see who was making the engine decisions and I hate to say it but the team on Starfield were pretty old and I have a feeling it's just a lack of knowledge on new engines. They need fresh blood
who was the hesd of Xbox studios? Wasn't there someone that is supposed to overlook the production of games? Someone to give more budget if needed, someone to delay the game if needed. Someone who keep game's quality in check?I thought Microsoft money is gonna help make Bethesda to make the best game they can ever make?
The use of the Creation Engine seems like some people's obsesion that things need to be done a certain way because that's the way they have always been done and nothing will make them change. Sometimes there's a good reason to stay with what you know, but not when the rest of industry has advanced so much. Especially since I imagine Creation Engine is a patchwork of things barely held together by now.
If I was the big boss at Microsoft.
I'd do a major shakeup at Bethesda.
Fallout/Elder Scrolls/Starfield would each have their own teams.
Fallout and Elder Scrolls are some of the biggest games that exist and are being wasted.
The Creation Engine... I don't think when they say it let's them work faster it's for building out the world. It's for quests, mods, and what have you.
I pretty sure they can keep CE for that and have Unreal do the graphics.
Name 1 todd who isnt a box of Ds
I’m a huge Bethesda fan but after the debacle that was Starfield I’m convinced Todd needs to retire either willingly or no. Bethesda is stuck in the 2010s with him at the head
The issue is that unreal takes 5% of revenues which would be tens of millions for BGS per game