Personally I prefer GotM. I just couldn't connect with any of the characters while I had 10 favourites in GotM but barely any in DG. I think this is also why, even though the ending was good and there were some great highlights, it did not make up for the slow beginning for me personally. It didn't have the same impact to me as it had to others. Still interested to see where the story will go, so hopefully MoI will pull me back in!
Honestly, for me it was exactly vice-versa! This is my first time readthrough and in GotM I remember loving the first chapter but God, that second chapter was so hard to get through even though it was relatively short. There also were so many ups and downs in it for me. So far I am 3/5 through DG, but I am loving everysingle moment of it. You can clearly see that the scope of the series is much more bigger than GotM ever promised and the constant flood of lore expositions makes me crave for more and more. I could relate with the characters much more in this book because all of them felt so much more real with all of their struggles, and in this book you actually get to see a big part of their struggles and live through it with them whereas in GotM it was more in the lines of: "This guy/girl had this happen to him/her in the past. Therefore he/she is in this condition at the moment." Also the themes! The themes were so much more powerful in DG imo. I came across a praiseworthy quote from one of the characters like every 10 pages. This book also has the best portrayal of a war ravaged land I have ever seen in a fantasy work so far. I am hopeful that I will enjoy the rest of the book at least as much as I did so far. If what others say about the rest of it holds any truth, I am pretty sure I will!
Honestly. I thought it was one of the worst books in the series for a long time. But over time, I came to realize that the things I got annoyed and frustrated over, were actually a hallmark of good writing. It wasn't the writing itself that frustrated me, but the events, decisions and actions of some of the characters.
I found the characters more interesting and I was more invested in them compared to GotM. I find they all have a ton of internal conflict, and I love the book. Only plot i'm not a fan of was Kalam's but in general I find him to be one of the more boring Malazan characters.
I found it a faster read than Gardens of the Moon. I was instantly absorbed and found characters to like. Some I changed my mind about as the story progressed, which surprised me, but it happened. I enjoyed the sea-faring parts and I like military fantasy, so none of that was a problem for me. The reason I took little breaks is because of the grimness in the story. I cried in a few spots. I was in turn infuriated. I felt like I needed to sing a lament or something at times. Maybe I got too deep into it. But it was an experience I will never forget. I feel like I now must carry the story of Chain of Dogs so that it is never forgotten.
I don't know why, but I never really felt a connection to Coltaine. Or Duiker. Neither one actually hit me hard. The soldiers crucified all up and down the way, actually impacted me more, for some reason.
@@markb3534 the thing is that coltaine is more monolith than man : he barely talks, you never get in his head. You are not supposed to be attached to him. You are supposed to see him the way his soldiers do : as the one who protects them all, as well as the refugees. A great man, but a great man from a distance. As for duiker, he isnt that important. His role is mostly to be our eyes. As an ex soldier he gets to be in the middle of the fight and describe its horror, or he gets to be an historian and watch everything from above. Whats sad when he dies is that the truth dies with him. He was literally carrying the memory of the whole chain of dogs on his back.
@@jmac2138 In a very good way. There are some elements of Book 2 I've seen people take issue with, but the Chain of Dogs has never been one of them. It's arguably the best storyline in the book.
To the point of book 2 being somewhat not directly related to book one is not something that bothers me n the slightest. It seems to me, having read book one and just over 1/2 way through book 2 is this series is written to be taken more like a historical document then a traditional novel.
Excellent to hear your assessment of Deadhouse Gates! I’m so glad you pushed through and found the experience rewarding. You’re right that this book can feel bleak, and the suffering it portrays is difficult at times. At the same time, those moments of beauty and redemption are all the more powerful. It’s about life. Also, great point about the originality of this writing, and it will stay with you forever.
That children are dying quote has been stuck in my head ever since I read it. It's such a powerful way to describe how both Malaz and the real world are.
One of the things I've seen brought up a couple of times is how Erikson doesn't turn away from the gruesome details of war, rape, drug use etc. but I'd like to add to that sentiment that he also isn't gratuitous with it. There are some horrific things that happen in this series and he makes you uncomfortable because it IS uncomfortable. He isn't diving into details for the sake of shocking you or exciting you. He's putting you there for a reason and none of those are repeated just for the sake of having them happen.
Deadhouse Gates is a book that keeps coming back to me almost 20 years after first reading. It's an incredible journey that made the real world feel bigger to me.
How did you not have fun with Pust!! He is hilarious I litterally crack up laughing every time he is on the page. Even Coltaine has some great and entertaining moments. Some of my favorite in the series all the meetings in his tent were memorable.
When it comes to Felisin, I think the way that we get frustrated with her if only proof that she's an exceptionally written character. It's those faults that we get annoyed with, that makes her human and relatable.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Characters can be flawed. Storylines can have suffering. All that can and should be part of the world. But there is something you cannot do. You cannot turn a significant portion of your book into the monotonous inner monologue of a character experiencing said thing. Why? It’s very very simple. It’s because you aren’t adding anything to the story after a repetition or two. That story isn’t flawed because it illustrates Felisins maladjustment to trauma. And the characters near death struggling. It’s flawed because it fails to bring any good insight to the plot at all for a significant portion of it. Just Felisin talking about... Felisin stuff. Which are chemical and sensual, and soaked with oppressed bitterness that steals hope. For like half the book! When you are writing you have to keep adding new information. In changing angles. In showing different aspects. As true to the crisis mode of trauma that the narrative is in. One where a perspective like that hyper focuses your attention into a narrow band, it just isn’t a good story telling aspect. Which is obvious. Suffering is terribly mundane from the inside of it even for its exquisite qualities. Human. That’s part of the trauma of it. Being stuck for extraordinary amounts of time. So what? So you vary your perspective. You recontextualize the covered suffering. You describe the world, and attempt to say interesting while still reminding the reader of that. You explore the variations in the perspectives of the different sufferings. You don’t explore every sightless bitter jibe. Every thought loop. Every maladaptive thought. It’s not good writing. It adds nothing. Same thing in WOT with Faile and Galenas perspective. Same shit over and over. Not good.
Oh man, I am afraid, that this comment will be too long, but here we go. I'm one of those die-hard Malazan fans. It is by far my favorite series ever and at this point, I consider all ten books to be perfect. Not for everyone, sure, but definitelly perfect for me. But when I read Deadhouse Gates for the first time, I struggled with it. A lot. When I started Gardens of the Moon, I gave up twice, but not because I wasn't enjoying it, just because I really felt, that I'm not ready for it, because I didn't understand most of it - in my defence, I was thirteen. But when I finally adjusted to it, I loved it. I loved the mystery, I even really enjoyed the fact, that I don't get all the answears. But still, I really struggled with Deadhouse Gates. It was much slower paced, I felt like it wasn't as epic or mysterious as the GotM and it propably was little bit too much depressing for me. However, I still finished it and I loved the ending (well, "loved"), I was curious about Icarium and Mappo and so on and so on. But I have to say, after I finished the main ten books for the first time, DG was my least favorite of them all. DG and Dust of Dreams were the only two I didn't really love. Maybe it has something to do with the fact, that these two are definitelly most depresing and I wasn't too thrilled about grimmdark fantasy then. But after a few years, when I finished First Law and other dark fantasy series, I've done my re-read and I learned to appraise DG much more. I would still put it to lower half of Malazan books on my list though. But as I said, my love for Malazan is sky high, so.. Btw. I have no doubt you are going to love Memories of Ice, especially when you basically review those books as standalones. I think this book recives most love from fans, and rightfuly so. For me, it is third favorite, behind Crippled God and Midnight Tides, but as a standalone, MoI works the best.
I think DHG of the entire series improves the most on a re-read. It's story and theme are best appreciated without the fog of the unknown surrounding the reader.
I think it's a right of passage to start and quit Gardens of the Moon several times. Very few complete it on a first read. I started it three times, and after my first complete read, I waited a week and reread the whole thing.
I feel you man. Erikson expects us as readers to do some of the heavy lifting for ourselves, which, for me, is the biggest reason why The Book of the Fallen is most satisfying work in modern fantasy. I felt a true sense of accomplishment when, on my third readthrough of the series, I could say to myself, yes... I understand the characters themes and plot now.
One year ago I was 2 days laid off and had just started Gardens of the Moon. It was my first "heavy" read of the year having read the 5 Witcher novels and the First Law trilogy up to that point. You could say I was in a bad place, like so many other people who had just been told they could no longer work at their existing jobs to support themselves and their families as they were deemed "non-essential". The short story there is, I was only unemployed for 6 weeks and had several offers to consider, so I was not so bad off as most "non-essentials" were and my heart still grieves for them. All that to say, it took me about a month to read through Gardens, and I went straight into Deadhouse Gates. I was still unemployed and still struggling to sleep at night from the emotional kick in the nuts I had received. Raraku and Whirlwind were extremely slow reads for me, but they were perfect for my state of mind at the time. There were plenty of times where I had to stop myself having read pages while rolling through the conversations in my head I couldn't stop wishing I had had before the layoff, but looking back, that was very therapeutic. Seeing these character's struggle in this fantasy world and feeling like they were real struggles that people have to deal with around the world everyday was a good reminder that I wasn't "that hurt", I wasn't "that bad off". Even resting in my own faith that all was well, regardless of times and tides, having a guide through the mire, even an unexpected one, was refreshing.
One of the most enlightening things I ever heard in regards to this series was Erikson say in an interview that when he wrote these books and this series he did so basically with an audience of only one in mind, Ian 'Cam' Esslemont. That was his target audience and who he was looking to entertain with these stories. Considering they built, created and spent 20+ years gaming together in that world, his lack of explanations throughout begin to make more sense. And every time seemingly random stuff we don't understand comes out of left field to affect the story, most of it is based on shared knowledge and backstory with already established background between them in their world somewhere. So it's not Steve giving us a middle finger as readers by not explaining things so much as it is him throwing in easter eggs of years old lore with a wink and nudge to his buddy Cam who doesn't require those explanations like "aye, betcha didn't see that coming!" This is especially evident in his writing in the first several books. Later in the series he began to realize he had a bigger audience than just Cam but by then you've either stuck with it as a somewhat disoriented 3rd party voyeur to the events unfolding in their massive mostly unexplored game world or you haven't. Being that most stories are written with a broad audience in mind we as readers naturally have come to expect the author to convey their information in a standardized building blocks kind of way that is absorbed and neatly processed in our minds. This series is antithetical to traditional concepts and troupes even on a meta level and is just one of many things I find so very fascinating about it. It's also a big reason why many hate it. It wasn't meant for mass appeal. The total opposite actually. However that should not invalidate the absolutely breathtaking stories that are told throughout the series, as they are some of the most incredible tales I've personally ever heard told.
Mike, you aren’t wrong, they can be tough books, unique books, extraordinary books! Malazan is like any great work of fiction, you are forced to question your views, your preconceptions about the version of reality by which you define yourself, the books challenge you to take a hard look at society’s norms, at the things we’ve always looked away from out of fear, of guilt, perhaps judgment of our own callous nature They’re books that demand more of the reader, not just as a reader of books, but more of us as human beings...
Can't wait to see how you feel after finishing Memoires of Ice. Memories of Ice makes Deadhouse Gates look like preschool games in comparison. Get ready to have your feels cranked up to an 11. Strap in you're in for a wild ride on the emotional rollercoaster.
Hey Anomander Mike! Hood'sBonyPrang here. I love your reviews and Malazan content! Just a quick note: like you, initially I was not really up for all the military-sitting-around-a-campfire stuff. As time went on though, I began to live for it. Curious to see if you feel a similar shift! Keep it up man!
I struggled through the first half of Deadhouse Gates but really enjoyed the second half. I am now about to start House of Chains, I finished Memories of Ice a few weeks ago and was blown away by it. It’s probably one of my favorite books now
I just read GotM and I'm so happy to hear you say that reading took you so long! English is not my native language and I thought it was just me being slow 😅
This one got the emotional hook in me when I read it. I read the series as it came out, had to deal with the confusion but the chain of dogs, Coltaine, and the saga of the Burnt Tears made the world real. Feel Raraku's rage and we will see Aren's commander again. Love this entire series, something I missed every time (starting 4th soon). Bragging, sorry.
I am so glad to have found this series I am currently on deadhouse gates I am already blown Going in i thought malazan was gonna be a very straighforward very boring fantasy But man this is the best series and set of books i am onto from all stuff i have read before I think malazan is for people like me it just fits perfect I have tried to find something satisfying like this to read for a while but none could hold up Man i am taking my time with this legendary masterpiece a true creative genius, top tier work This type of work is irrelevant to rate and review qith amount of work put in to it
It's interesting you find the denseness something on the bad side. I feel that is a personal preference thing. Because I absolutely love this about this series. The way it challenges you to read carefully, and I absolutely love that (but then, I have a academic background in history, and I love that in my non-fiction as well, so I might just be weird). I can totally get why that is not everyone's cup of tea, though.
One of the big reasons that Malazan is so re-readable is that once you take away the 'density' that the fog of unknown adds, it's a lot more approachable for many.
16:00 'very' x7 dense book. I concur. it's taking so long to read a chapter. Re-reading them now since this read-along and I've learned a lot since then. and goin a slower pace now.. missed so much 1st read bc of this. Ty for honest discussions as always, love these books n hope you do more on them❤🔥
I’m a little ahead of where you’re at. No spoilers, but I will say I’ve never read a book/author that can take, what seems to be, independent plot threads and weave it together into a beautiful tapestry. Simply amazing writing!
I hope so Mike, I just finished Gardens of the Moon this morning and I dont think I have ever been more confused. Iam checking out some chapter summaries on youtube prior to proceeding. I'll start Deadhouse Gates tonight.
I listen to audio books only. I find that I can do other things while listening through my phone. Well not this one, lol. Still on audio but, I have to be stationary and really take it in to follow. I find myself looking up the wikis to keep up with character arcs and get a feel for what the toons look like and to get their histories and motivations and such. This as with the first book is some of the deepest and hard to keep up with all the factions series I have ever listened to. It is a testament to modern literacy and definatley some of the most advanced fantasy reading I have ever done. With all that being said, i am about to start book three in order to try and catch up with the read along. I've always watched from afar but, i think i will throw my hat into the ring and join the group. you do really nice work on all your reviews and looking forward to more emersion in the stories. P.S. Pom-Qual's a bitch.
Spoilers free woohoo! I'm here for it ^^ I'm still only at the beginning of the book, so I'm definitely lagging behind at the moment, but I am holding on and now I'm glad to have your review to motivate me!
It seems we have very similar tastes regarding military fiction, but I have to say I really enjoyed the chapters with Kalam on the ship. It felt more like a mystery I was supposed to unravel, than seafaring. Also, I felt there was a lot more humour in it than in Gardens and then even more in Memories of Ice. Curious how you'll feel about that. Thanks for the video!
To be honest, if military fantasy, company politics and campfire musings are "really not" what you're here for ... well, let us wish you'll pick up a liking for it along the way. It is well worth it, of course; but if you simply do not care for these aspects of the story, it might not be that smooth of a read. Erikson's tale encompases far more than the soldier's lot, but it is perhaps the main prism through which many evils of the world are perceived and dissected. That being said, rest assured that as for humor, there is a lot more of it to come - a lot more.
I related very closely to Felisin, she frustrated me endlessly but felt just like a reflection of my teenage self after going through a hard time. I'm so glad for this read-along because I would have given up on this book long before the amazing crescendo at the end.
Malazan is an experience unlike any other in my experience. If you're used to reading a book and going "Aaah, I see where 95% of this is going", you'll find Malazan very refreshing as you will have no clue where things are going.
I think what I love most about this series is that it refuses to be classified by just one or two buzzwords or whatever, instead it seeks to challenge the tradition in creative ways. Honestly, I personally don't use genre labels that often in my thinking so I have never seen it as military fantasy or anything like that; more, for me it's been a work about relationships and the human and fictional non-human behaviour and spirit. I can see how it would apply as people use it, but I think whether it is the focal descriptor for you is entirely up to how you approach this as a reader. For me, I definitely don't seek out military themes as my first choice, however this is still perhaps my favourite fantasy series ever. If you are there more for the action & snappy dialogue I can see how there are slogs as people like to put it, but for me slogs are almost always a product of uneven writing rather than the topic in it, so I never really had that with this book. However, I would agree with you that if I were to audiobook this for the first time, oh my gods I would be so lost. I just vastly prefer reading, so if you are better at taking in info via audio, it's probably less confusing.
I almost gave up on Malazan like 4 different times during this book. People kept telling me the second half is where it picks up, but I only started loving it 3/4 in. Now that I'm done I will DEFINITELY be continuing the series and I think I'm officially bought in. But I absolutely understand those who toss Malazan aside during Deadhouse Gates,
You are so right about this book not being fun. However, that does not mean that it isn't good, or even great. It is, in fact, at least the former if not the latter. Great review. This did not feel like a nearly 30-minute video.
I loved Deadhouse Gates. I was also thinking about it for weeks after I finished it. I even told my bf about it, and he doesn't give a shit about my books. Lol. I had a hard time keeping myself from immediately reading the next book. I'm sticking with the read-along schedule tho!
I listen to audio all the time no problem. I don’t audio on 2x speed but I typically 1.25x speed and I have to put Malazan down to 1x and have the book open too.
I am with you mike - these books are taking me so long to read, which is so unusual but so welcome - im still halfway through this one and I am absolutely loving it - the density is just so good for me man
i just finished Gardens of the Moon last night and i absolutely adored it! I have really high expectations set for this one but i was also a bit sceptical about going in immediately. well after this review i can say with certainty i m diving in right away! Thanks a lot for the great review!
Mike is going to have no problem finding quotes for Malazan. Pruning the list to a fair-use into, OTOH. 😂 Loved your review, and glad the Ghost Hands prevailed.
My second read through made me love this book, the second half is some of my favourite work by Steven Erikson and great channel sir! You have yourself a new Subscriber
This series is phenomenal. You have to have a fairly high reading comprehension to absorb all the info that the series throws at you. If you can handle the series, iit s the most rewarding experience you can get out of a book series ;)
Hey Mike, glad you stuck with it as that stubbornness will serve you well in the books to come and the payoff will be well worth it believe me. I discovered this series roughly 10years ago and am still spellbound with it(even after multiple re-reads of both authors), on the downside unfortunately 95% of everything else out there just doesn't/can't stand anywhere near this whole series for me they mostly all become plain bland and childishly simple in comparison and it is without a doubt in top 2or3 fantasy series of all time(for me it's #1- honourable mention to ASOIAF, Dune, The Expanse, TWD and LOTR ) and thankfully it's still growing as they're still adding to it every few years.
I’m not going to lie, this book has been a bit of a struggle. I’m still here though! I’m in book four and am trying to finish before the end of the month. Felisin’s storyline is actually what’s kept me going. It’s bleak, but I find it the most compelling. I struggle the most with the Duiker and Kalam sections. Mappo and Icarium are very dense, and hard to follow, but also compelling. I wish there was more Fiddler and Apsalar. It’s work! I wish I could relax into the story more. I find it hard to imagine the scenes. Erikson is descriptive yet I still can’t always paint the scenes in my mind. I wish he was more consistent with his imagery. I hope you’re right (I’m sure you are) that the ending is gripping because I could use a boost! 😅
I agree Mike i was going to give up myself and then when i got to 500 of the book i was hooked again and i am read for book 3 now to see what happens next in it i cant wait im excited to cont this series
Alot of people say this book is so emotional. It felt as emotional as a brick. Felt mostly like describing shit happening to people without describing why I should care.
Wow. Amazing Review! I've got nothing more to say, because that are exactly my thoughts! And I'm glad that I wasn't the only one who thought I couldn't ever make it through, it really was dense. ^^
Great review, and fair criticism. And thank you for articulating the content warnings like you did -- Malazan isn't for everyone; and that's OK. Jumping into the series in the right frame of mind is key to enjoying it.
You’re completely right about the audiobook. I’d say the audiobooks would probably be better on a reread. I struggled hard with Deadhouse Gates, and I know it was because I decided to listen to the audio. A serious mistake. Not because of the production. It’s the writing and how you need to pay attention. I’m going to have to read the remainder of the series with my eyes. I’ve already started MoI and man, it’s a lot of fun so far. Which is odd to say. 😂
A freat book, I enjoyed it a lot. Hard to pick out a favorite scene or storyline, but I think the Duiker-storyline and the Chain of Dogs is the part that mainly stays with me from this book
It’s funny how you were feeling like what did I get myself into in this book because I never felt that was reading DG but I felt like that pretty much start to finish GotM. And yes, every one of these books has made me feel like I can’t read other books specifically fantasy. I’ve been reading comics after each Malazan to decompress.
I audiobooked this one, and I cannot imagine doing it on 2x speed--ther's just way too much lol, but I have to disagree about the seafaring and military storylines--these were the highlights for me. The Chain of Dogs story is the most incredibly brutal storyline I've come across in a long time. I read Abercrombie in order to take a BREAK from Malazan after this. Now I'm on Memories of Ice and I'm loving it.
I LOVED this book mostly throughout 75%. The first 5% were painful, then it became okay for a while and then it was slog-ish for 20% and then the chain of dogs hit like a train.
I am reading Malazan for the 3rd time and this is one of my favorites, I am almost finished with Dust of Dreams and had forgotten just how brutal parts of it is, really good though
I really liked this book, had me in tears in some moments. For me the writing was even stronger than in Gardens of the Moon. The only minor bad thing i felt was towards the travelling, which i think was executed well but was a bit too much for me at times. Overall im really excited, its a bleek but also inspiring story in a weird and unique world. As you said, Erikson really goes in and seems to not compromise his vision. Im really interested in how this unfolds, first 100 pages in Memory of Ice felt good :) Ps: i feel for Felisin
I can honestly never understand the Felisin hate. I think those people are giving the benefit of the doubt way too much to Bauden and Heboric. We just accept their word that they wanted to help her, and that she didn't want the help, but all we really ever see is them judging and damning her. They treat her as if she has full and complete agency and not as if she's a spoiled 15 year old child. I think Felisin is one of the most fascinating and sympathetic characters I've ever read, and the hate she gets mystifies me.
I think many readers overlook age because you kind of expect adult characters by default unless a clearly defined clique is not adult. But I agree with you, she's not my favourite character or anything but I don't think she's a poor one.
@@violetbliss4399 Yeah, I think two very distinct factors that get overlooked a lot is her age, and drug addiction/withdrawals. Drug addiction mixed with trauma leads to a very bitter and angry facade and I think those two factors in and of themselves excuse a whole lot of what we see from Felisin. My talk is really just focused on the people that usually say "Felisin is just an angry brat being mean to people trying to help her." Which I would say we never really see any actual help. Bauden goes missing almost immediately, and Heboric is already bitter and cynical dealing with his own stuff and does nothing but judge and belittle. I don't think Felisin owes anything to those two people.
I can understand the way that Felisin is, but I just don’t like reading the chapters. That sort of mentality can be hard to read through and ended up my least favorite parts of the book, though I respect what Erikson was trying to do.
Malazan is like Joyce’s Finnegans Wake you need to immerse yourself in Spoilers and Cliff Notes before you actually read the books to understand the plots and raison d’etre of the novels.
Good review. This book is top three in the series for me. I loved the tone of it. The problems you had with this one will definitely creep up again and again in the rest of the books, but like you say, it is worth it for all the good things that happen. If you don't care for sea faring stories, I'm very curious how you will take Live Ship Traders. But, I do hope you will enjoy it.
"the most brutal and the most powerfull endings... the last 100 pages especially".... Well be ready for 8 more books of that! And I will be sure to check your thoughts on them.
I just started chapter 6 and this book by far has been more difficult to read than GOTM. It started off in a bit of a slog but has since taken off since chapter 5.
I think Deadhouse Gates is underrated. Sure, it's sloggish, but most of the series was sloggish for me. Around book 5, I resorted to just reading one chapter a day, and I finished the series in about 6 more months. I really sympathized with Felisin, and one of the marks I'll put against the series can't really be explained without spoiling stuff. If I was describing the series in brief, I would say that it's amazing, but Eriksen's writing style was hard for me personally to enjoy. That doesn't really detract from the story, and I promise you that if you make it to the end you will NOT regret it.
Hey bookworms & Bridgeburners! What did you think of Deadhouse Gates? Give me your spoiler-free thoughts below.
Personally I prefer GotM. I just couldn't connect with any of the characters while I had 10 favourites in GotM but barely any in DG. I think this is also why, even though the ending was good and there were some great highlights, it did not make up for the slow beginning for me personally. It didn't have the same impact to me as it had to others. Still interested to see where the story will go, so hopefully MoI will pull me back in!
Honestly, for me it was exactly vice-versa! This is my first time readthrough and in GotM I remember loving the first chapter but God, that second chapter was so hard to get through even though it was relatively short. There also were so many ups and downs in it for me. So far I am 3/5 through DG, but I am loving everysingle moment of it. You can clearly see that the scope of the series is much more bigger than GotM ever promised and the constant flood of lore expositions makes me crave for more and more.
I could relate with the characters much more in this book because all of them felt so much more real with all of their struggles, and in this book you actually get to see a big part of their struggles and live through it with them whereas in GotM it was more in the lines of: "This guy/girl had this happen to him/her in the past. Therefore he/she is in this condition at the moment."
Also the themes! The themes were so much more powerful in DG imo. I came across a praiseworthy quote from one of the characters like every 10 pages. This book also has the best portrayal of a war ravaged land I have ever seen in a fantasy work so far.
I am hopeful that I will enjoy the rest of the book at least as much as I did so far. If what others say about the rest of it holds any truth, I am pretty sure I will!
Honestly. I thought it was one of the worst books in the series for a long time. But over time, I came to realize that the things I got annoyed and frustrated over, were actually a hallmark of good writing. It wasn't the writing itself that frustrated me, but the events, decisions and actions of some of the characters.
I found the characters more interesting and I was more invested in them compared to GotM. I find they all have a ton of internal conflict, and I love the book. Only plot i'm not a fan of was Kalam's but in general I find him to be one of the more boring Malazan characters.
I found it a faster read than Gardens of the Moon. I was instantly absorbed and found characters to like. Some I changed my mind about as the story progressed, which surprised me, but it happened. I enjoyed the sea-faring parts and I like military fantasy, so none of that was a problem for me. The reason I took little breaks is because of the grimness in the story. I cried in a few spots. I was in turn infuriated. I felt like I needed to sing a lament or something at times. Maybe I got too deep into it. But it was an experience I will never forget. I feel like I now must carry the story of Chain of Dogs so that it is never forgotten.
The last half of this book was the literary equivalent of being slapped in the face without expecting it.
Coltaine is a man you cant help but feel devotion for.
Coltaine for life!
I don't know why, but I never really felt a connection to Coltaine. Or Duiker. Neither one actually hit me hard. The soldiers crucified all up and down the way, actually impacted me more, for some reason.
@@markb3534 the thing is that coltaine is more monolith than man : he barely talks, you never get in his head. You are not supposed to be attached to him. You are supposed to see him the way his soldiers do : as the one who protects them all, as well as the refugees.
A great man, but a great man from a distance.
As for duiker, he isnt that important. His role is mostly to be our eyes. As an ex soldier he gets to be in the middle of the fight and describe its horror, or he gets to be an historian and watch everything from above. Whats sad when he dies is that the truth dies with him. He was literally carrying the memory of the whole chain of dogs on his back.
@@popkhorne5372 Could you please add a spoiler warning to your comment?
Never has anything made me angrier than the Chain of Dogs. I'll never forget that storyline.
Just curious, but in a good way or bad lol? I'm just starting the book, and I'm looking forward to it. However, I have heard mixed reviews.
@@jmac2138 In a very good way. There are some elements of Book 2 I've seen people take issue with, but the Chain of Dogs has never been one of them. It's arguably the best storyline in the book.
I threw my book across the room in anger... it's my favourite storyline (Chain of Dogs). I prefer Deadhouse to Memories
Only part in any fantasy series that has nearly made me cry
To the point of book 2 being somewhat not directly related to book one is not something that bothers me n the slightest. It seems to me, having read book one and just over 1/2 way through book 2 is this series is written to be taken more like a historical document then a traditional novel.
Excellent to hear your assessment of Deadhouse Gates! I’m so glad you pushed through and found the experience rewarding. You’re right that this book can feel bleak, and the suffering it portrays is difficult at times. At the same time, those moments of beauty and redemption are all the more powerful. It’s about life. Also, great point about the originality of this writing, and it will stay with you forever.
That children are dying quote has been stuck in my head ever since I read it. It's such a powerful way to describe how both Malaz and the real world are.
That was probably the best, no bullshit talk of a Malazan book that I've seen. So glad to be along for the ride.
Gardens of the Moon: Don't know what all the fear mongering is about.
Deadhouse Gates: Starts fear mongering.
😂
One of the things I've seen brought up a couple of times is how Erikson doesn't turn away from the gruesome details of war, rape, drug use etc. but I'd like to add to that sentiment that he also isn't gratuitous with it. There are some horrific things that happen in this series and he makes you uncomfortable because it IS uncomfortable. He isn't diving into details for the sake of shocking you or exciting you. He's putting you there for a reason and none of those are repeated just for the sake of having them happen.
Damn son, that reading! Chills! 🥶 after next month, we’re gonna have you hook, line, and sinker!!! 🎣💪❤️🙏💥🔥
Ha ha thank you, my friend. And I’ve been excited about MoI before I even started this.
Deadhouse Gates is a book that keeps coming back to me almost 20 years after first reading. It's an incredible journey that made the real world feel bigger to me.
I started Memories of Ice ahead just because i won't have much reading time the first week of april. Finished it in 6 days. Wow, is all i can say
How did you not have fun with Pust!! He is hilarious I litterally crack up laughing every time he is on the page. Even Coltaine has some great and entertaining moments. Some of my favorite in the series all the meetings in his tent were memorable.
I didn’t dislike him. He approached Jar Jar Binks levels of humor to me. But perhaps he will grow on me.
@@mikesbookreviews
Erikson gets better at writing Pust. He's really good in some of the later books.
I hated him. Kept hoping Crokus would finally knife em. He's just so over the top and talks on and on and on
Pust's insanity is his genius
When it comes to Felisin, I think the way that we get frustrated with her if only proof that she's an exceptionally written character. It's those faults that we get annoyed with, that makes her human and relatable.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Characters can be flawed. Storylines can have suffering. All that can and should be part of the world. But there is something you cannot do.
You cannot turn a significant portion of your book into the monotonous inner monologue of a character experiencing said thing. Why? It’s very very simple.
It’s because you aren’t adding anything to the story after a repetition or two. That story isn’t flawed because it illustrates Felisins maladjustment to trauma. And the characters near death struggling. It’s flawed because it fails to bring any good insight to the plot at all for a significant portion of it. Just Felisin talking about... Felisin stuff. Which are chemical and sensual, and soaked with oppressed bitterness that steals hope. For like half the book!
When you are writing you have to keep adding new information. In changing angles. In showing different aspects. As true to the crisis mode of trauma that the narrative is in. One where a perspective like that hyper focuses your attention into a narrow band, it just isn’t a good story telling aspect. Which is obvious. Suffering is terribly mundane from the inside of it even for its exquisite qualities. Human. That’s part of the trauma of it. Being stuck for extraordinary amounts of time. So what?
So you vary your perspective. You recontextualize the covered suffering. You describe the world, and attempt to say interesting while still reminding the reader of that. You explore the variations in the perspectives of the different sufferings. You don’t explore every sightless bitter jibe. Every thought loop. Every maladaptive thought.
It’s not good writing. It adds nothing. Same thing in WOT with Faile and Galenas perspective. Same shit over and over. Not good.
Oh man, I am afraid, that this comment will be too long, but here we go.
I'm one of those die-hard Malazan fans. It is by far my favorite series ever and at this point, I consider all ten books to be perfect. Not for everyone, sure, but definitelly perfect for me. But when I read Deadhouse Gates for the first time, I struggled with it. A lot. When I started Gardens of the Moon, I gave up twice, but not because I wasn't enjoying it, just because I really felt, that I'm not ready for it, because I didn't understand most of it - in my defence, I was thirteen. But when I finally adjusted to it, I loved it. I loved the mystery, I even really enjoyed the fact, that I don't get all the answears. But still, I really struggled with Deadhouse Gates. It was much slower paced, I felt like it wasn't as epic or mysterious as the GotM and it propably was little bit too much depressing for me.
However, I still finished it and I loved the ending (well, "loved"), I was curious about Icarium and Mappo and so on and so on. But I have to say, after I finished the main ten books for the first time, DG was my least favorite of them all. DG and Dust of Dreams were the only two I didn't really love. Maybe it has something to do with the fact, that these two are definitelly most depresing and I wasn't too thrilled about grimmdark fantasy then. But after a few years, when I finished First Law and other dark fantasy series, I've done my re-read and I learned to appraise DG much more. I would still put it to lower half of Malazan books on my list though. But as I said, my love for Malazan is sky high, so..
Btw. I have no doubt you are going to love Memories of Ice, especially when you basically review those books as standalones. I think this book recives most love from fans, and rightfuly so. For me, it is third favorite, behind Crippled God and Midnight Tides, but as a standalone, MoI works the best.
I think DHG of the entire series improves the most on a re-read. It's story and theme are best appreciated without the fog of the unknown surrounding the reader.
I think it's a right of passage to start and quit Gardens of the Moon several times. Very few complete it on a first read. I started it three times, and after my first complete read, I waited a week and reread the whole thing.
I feel you man. Erikson expects us as readers to do some of the heavy lifting for ourselves, which, for me, is the biggest reason why The Book of the Fallen is most satisfying work in modern fantasy.
I felt a true sense of accomplishment when, on my third readthrough of the series, I could say to myself, yes... I understand the characters themes and plot now.
One year ago I was 2 days laid off and had just started Gardens of the Moon. It was my first "heavy" read of the year having read the 5 Witcher novels and the First Law trilogy up to that point. You could say I was in a bad place, like so many other people who had just been told they could no longer work at their existing jobs to support themselves and their families as they were deemed "non-essential". The short story there is, I was only unemployed for 6 weeks and had several offers to consider, so I was not so bad off as most "non-essentials" were and my heart still grieves for them. All that to say, it took me about a month to read through Gardens, and I went straight into Deadhouse Gates. I was still unemployed and still struggling to sleep at night from the emotional kick in the nuts I had received. Raraku and Whirlwind were extremely slow reads for me, but they were perfect for my state of mind at the time. There were plenty of times where I had to stop myself having read pages while rolling through the conversations in my head I couldn't stop wishing I had had before the layoff, but looking back, that was very therapeutic. Seeing these character's struggle in this fantasy world and feeling like they were real struggles that people have to deal with around the world everyday was a good reminder that I wasn't "that hurt", I wasn't "that bad off". Even resting in my own faith that all was well, regardless of times and tides, having a guide through the mire, even an unexpected one, was refreshing.
Bro, you should have entered this in the tribute video!
@@IskarJarak I had considered it, but until today, the words weren't there.
Beautiful words 🙏💪
The Chain of Dogs is something that cannot be forgotten. Coltaine casts a long shadow.
At first I preferred Gardens but the more I sat on it I do prefer Deadhouse.
Me too.
Dead House Gate it was gruesomely brilliant.
We are not going anywhere! We are sticking with you and this amazing series ❤️❤️🙂
One of the most enlightening things I ever heard in regards to this series was Erikson say in an interview that when he wrote these books and this series he did so basically with an audience of only one in mind, Ian 'Cam' Esslemont. That was his target audience and who he was looking to entertain with these stories. Considering they built, created and spent 20+ years gaming together in that world, his lack of explanations throughout begin to make more sense. And every time seemingly random stuff we don't understand comes out of left field to affect the story, most of it is based on shared knowledge and backstory with already established background between them in their world somewhere. So it's not Steve giving us a middle finger as readers by not explaining things so much as it is him throwing in easter eggs of years old lore with a wink and nudge to his buddy Cam who doesn't require those explanations like "aye, betcha didn't see that coming!" This is especially evident in his writing in the first several books. Later in the series he began to realize he had a bigger audience than just Cam but by then you've either stuck with it as a somewhat disoriented 3rd party voyeur to the events unfolding in their massive mostly unexplored game world or you haven't. Being that most stories are written with a broad audience in mind we as readers naturally have come to expect the author to convey their information in a standardized building blocks kind of way that is absorbed and neatly processed in our minds. This series is antithetical to traditional concepts and troupes even on a meta level and is just one of many things I find so very fascinating about it. It's also a big reason why many hate it. It wasn't meant for mass appeal. The total opposite actually. However that should not invalidate the absolutely breathtaking stories that are told throughout the series, as they are some of the most incredible tales I've personally ever heard told.
Mike, you aren’t wrong, they can be tough books, unique books, extraordinary books!
Malazan is like any great work of fiction, you are forced to question your views, your preconceptions about the version of reality by which you define yourself, the books challenge you to take a hard look at society’s norms, at the things we’ve always looked away from out of fear, of guilt, perhaps judgment of our own callous nature
They’re books that demand more of the reader, not just as a reader of books, but more of us as human beings...
Man, that first quote was such a gut punch. It's so true.
Can't wait to see how you feel after finishing Memoires of Ice. Memories of Ice makes Deadhouse Gates look like preschool games in comparison. Get ready to have your feels cranked up to an 11. Strap in you're in for a wild ride on the emotional rollercoaster.
I reread the entire series every year. Deadhouse is one of my top 5 books of all time.
Hey Anomander Mike! Hood'sBonyPrang here. I love your reviews and Malazan content! Just a quick note: like you, initially I was not really up for all the military-sitting-around-a-campfire stuff. As time went on though, I began to live for it. Curious to see if you feel a similar shift! Keep it up man!
I have a feeling you'll enjoy Memories of Ice the most, it has the most traditional fantasy feel of all the MBOTF, but the execution is stellar.
I struggled through the first half of Deadhouse Gates but really enjoyed the second half. I am now about to start House of Chains, I finished Memories of Ice a few weeks ago and was blown away by it. It’s probably one of my favorite books now
I just read GotM and I'm so happy to hear you say that reading took you so long! English is not my native language and I thought it was just me being slow 😅
Great review, as always 🙂
Thank you, Megs.
This one got the emotional hook in me when I read it. I read the series as it came out, had to deal with the confusion but the chain of dogs, Coltaine, and the saga of the Burnt Tears made the world real. Feel Raraku's rage and we will see Aren's commander again. Love this entire series, something I missed every time (starting 4th soon). Bragging, sorry.
Late to the party - just finished reading the last 100 pages in one sitting. Stunned.
I am so glad to have found this series
I am currently on deadhouse gates
I am already blown
Going in i thought malazan was gonna be a very straighforward very boring fantasy
But man this is the best series and set of books i am onto from all stuff i have read before
I think malazan is for people like me it just fits perfect
I have tried to find something satisfying like this to read for a while but none could hold up
Man i am taking my time with this legendary masterpiece a true creative genius, top tier work
This type of work is irrelevant to rate and review qith amount of work put in to it
It's interesting you find the denseness something on the bad side. I feel that is a personal preference thing. Because I absolutely love this about this series. The way it challenges you to read carefully, and I absolutely love that (but then, I have a academic background in history, and I love that in my non-fiction as well, so I might just be weird). I can totally get why that is not everyone's cup of tea, though.
One of the big reasons that Malazan is so re-readable is that once you take away the 'density' that the fog of unknown adds, it's a lot more approachable for many.
16:00 'very' x7 dense book. I concur. it's taking so long to read a chapter. Re-reading them now since this read-along and I've learned a lot since then. and goin a slower pace now.. missed so much 1st read bc of this. Ty for honest discussions as always, love these books n hope you do more on them❤🔥
I am so excited to get started on Deadhouse Gates. I am almost done with Gardens of the Moon. I know.... I am so behind. I shall catch up. Ketchup!
I’m a little ahead of where you’re at. No spoilers, but I will say I’ve never read a book/author that can take, what seems to be, independent plot threads and weave it together into a beautiful tapestry. Simply amazing writing!
I hope so Mike, I just finished Gardens of the Moon this morning and I dont think I have ever been more confused. Iam checking out some chapter summaries on youtube prior to proceeding. I'll start Deadhouse Gates tonight.
I listen to audio books only. I find that I can do other things while listening through my phone. Well not this one, lol. Still on audio but, I have to be stationary and really take it in to follow. I find myself looking up the wikis to keep up with character arcs and get a feel for what the toons look like and to get their histories and motivations and such. This as with the first book is some of the deepest and hard to keep up with all the factions series I have ever listened to. It is a testament to modern literacy and definatley some of the most advanced fantasy reading I have ever done. With all that being said, i am about to start book three in order to try and catch up with the read along. I've always watched from afar but, i think i will throw my hat into the ring and join the group. you do really nice work on all your reviews and looking forward to more emersion in the stories. P.S. Pom-Qual's a bitch.
Spoilers free woohoo! I'm here for it ^^ I'm still only at the beginning of the book, so I'm definitely lagging behind at the moment, but I am holding on and now I'm glad to have your review to motivate me!
It's a book that needs to be completed, dropping out early is what some need to do, but I advise against it.
I started the read along very late. Just finished this book. I gotta say, your intros to these reviews are second to none.
It seems we have very similar tastes regarding military fiction, but I have to say I really enjoyed the chapters with Kalam on the ship. It felt more like a mystery I was supposed to unravel, than seafaring. Also, I felt there was a lot more humour in it than in Gardens and then even more in Memories of Ice. Curious how you'll feel about that. Thanks for the video!
I agree about Kalam at sea. It's actually one of my favorite parts of the story. Especially with a certain someone along for the ride.
Wow.. I remember having that t-shirt about 30plus years ago... Excellent t-shirt & great taste...
Oh and of course a fantastic video..
This was so helpful! Just finished Gardens of the Moon and I can't WAIT to read Deadhouse Gates.
To be honest, if military fantasy, company politics and campfire musings are "really not" what you're here for ... well, let us wish you'll pick up a liking for it along the way. It is well worth it, of course; but if you simply do not care for these aspects of the story, it might not be that smooth of a read. Erikson's tale encompases far more than the soldier's lot, but it is perhaps the main prism through which many evils of the world are perceived and dissected.
That being said, rest assured that as for humor, there is a lot more of it to come - a lot more.
I related very closely to Felisin, she frustrated me endlessly but felt just like a reflection of my teenage self after going through a hard time.
I'm so glad for this read-along because I would have given up on this book long before the amazing crescendo at the end.
i just read this book a third time in 10 years. Dazed and also gut wrenching along the journey of the Chain Of Dogs.
Getting towards the end of House of Chains. It just keeps getting better. It is heavy and it is lovely.
These videos are really making me interested in Malazan.
Malazan is an experience unlike any other in my experience. If you're used to reading a book and going "Aaah, I see where 95% of this is going", you'll find Malazan very refreshing as you will have no clue where things are going.
Join us
We have shortcake
I think what I love most about this series is that it refuses to be classified by just one or two buzzwords or whatever, instead it seeks to challenge the tradition in creative ways. Honestly, I personally don't use genre labels that often in my thinking so I have never seen it as military fantasy or anything like that; more, for me it's been a work about relationships and the human and fictional non-human behaviour and spirit. I can see how it would apply as people use it, but I think whether it is the focal descriptor for you is entirely up to how you approach this as a reader.
For me, I definitely don't seek out military themes as my first choice, however this is still perhaps my favourite fantasy series ever. If you are there more for the action & snappy dialogue I can see how there are slogs as people like to put it, but for me slogs are almost always a product of uneven writing rather than the topic in it, so I never really had that with this book. However, I would agree with you that if I were to audiobook this for the first time, oh my gods I would be so lost. I just vastly prefer reading, so if you are better at taking in info via audio, it's probably less confusing.
I almost gave up on Malazan like 4 different times during this book. People kept telling me the second half is where it picks up, but I only started loving it 3/4 in. Now that I'm done I will DEFINITELY be continuing the series and I think I'm officially bought in. But I absolutely understand those who toss Malazan aside during Deadhouse Gates,
You are so right about this book not being fun. However, that does not mean that it isn't good, or even great. It is, in fact, at least the former if not the latter. Great review. This did not feel like a nearly 30-minute video.
I loved Deadhouse Gates. I was also thinking about it for weeks after I finished it. I even told my bf about it, and he doesn't give a shit about my books. Lol. I had a hard time keeping myself from immediately reading the next book. I'm sticking with the read-along schedule tho!
For sure. My wife would have some strong emotions for years after finishing if I brought up the book.
Currently reading this and I love it !
I listen to audio all the time no problem. I don’t audio on 2x speed but I typically 1.25x speed and I have to put Malazan down to 1x and have the book open too.
deadhouse was great, looking forward to your philip chase discussion
I am with you mike - these books are taking me so long to read, which is so unusual but so welcome - im still halfway through this one and I am absolutely loving it - the density is just so good for me man
i just finished Gardens of the Moon last night and i absolutely adored it! I have really high expectations set for this one but i was also a bit sceptical about going in immediately. well after this review i can say with certainty i m diving in right away! Thanks a lot for the great review!
The first half was a real drag but the second half was amazing some top tier fantasy really good
Greatest book intro I have ever seen on this channel
Mike is going to have no problem finding quotes for Malazan. Pruning the list to a fair-use into, OTOH. 😂
Loved your review, and glad the Ghost Hands prevailed.
That might be the best intro you have done!!!
Gracias!
As someone who has read and enjoyed the whole series, I think you nailed it
Thank you for using the Children are Dying quote, it's the most poignant in the entire series.
It’s just an electric quote.
Appreciate this spoiler free talk. I'm still at 15%.
My second read through made me love this book, the second half is some of my favourite work by Steven Erikson and great channel sir! You have yourself a new Subscriber
This series is phenomenal. You have to have a fairly high reading comprehension to absorb all the info that the series throws at you. If you can handle the series, iit s the most rewarding experience you can get out of a book series ;)
Hey Mike, glad you stuck with it as that stubbornness will serve you well in the books to come and the payoff will be well worth it believe me. I discovered this series roughly 10years ago and am still spellbound with it(even after multiple re-reads of both authors), on the downside unfortunately 95% of everything else out there just doesn't/can't stand anywhere near this whole series for me they mostly all become plain bland and childishly simple in comparison and it is without a doubt in top 2or3 fantasy series of all time(for me it's #1- honourable mention to ASOIAF, Dune, The Expanse, TWD and LOTR ) and thankfully it's still growing as they're still adding to it every few years.
20 year old me liked this book a lot more than 40 year old me . Still the last 100 pages though
I’m not going to lie, this book has been a bit of a struggle. I’m still here though! I’m in book four and am trying to finish before the end of the month. Felisin’s storyline is actually what’s kept me going. It’s bleak, but I find it the most compelling. I struggle the most with the Duiker and Kalam sections. Mappo and Icarium are very dense, and hard to follow, but also compelling. I wish there was more Fiddler and Apsalar. It’s work! I wish I could relax into the story more. I find it hard to imagine the scenes. Erikson is descriptive yet I still can’t always paint the scenes in my mind. I wish he was more consistent with his imagery. I hope you’re right (I’m sure you are) that the ending is gripping because I could use a boost! 😅
It was absolutely a struggle. But one worth the blood, sweat, and tears.
I agree Mike i was going to give up myself and then when i got to 500 of the book i was hooked again and i am read for book 3 now to see what happens next in it i cant wait im excited to cont this series
I audiobook this at 2 speed I'm almost done with the book and I haven't had any problems
Alot of people say this book is so emotional. It felt as emotional as a brick. Felt mostly like describing shit happening to people without describing why I should care.
I guess it doesn’t hit everyone the same.
These books don't tell you why to care...you either care or you don't. This book made me cry real tears.
Wow. Amazing Review! I've got nothing more to say, because that are exactly my thoughts! And I'm glad that I wasn't the only one who thought I couldn't ever make it through, it really was dense. ^^
Bro you were killing me with the one liners in this one 😂
Great review, and fair criticism. And thank you for articulating the content warnings like you did -- Malazan isn't for everyone; and that's OK. Jumping into the series in the right frame of mind is key to enjoying it.
currently at 75% of the book, and so far i'm enjoying it more than "gardens of the moon"
You’re completely right about the audiobook. I’d say the audiobooks would probably be better on a reread. I struggled hard with Deadhouse Gates, and I know it was because I decided to listen to the audio. A serious mistake. Not because of the production. It’s the writing and how you need to pay attention. I’m going to have to read the remainder of the series with my eyes. I’ve already started MoI and man, it’s a lot of fun so far. Which is odd to say. 😂
I can’t even imagine this via audio.
I’d like to see this series animated in the style of Frank Frazetta.
A freat book, I enjoyed it a lot. Hard to pick out a favorite scene or storyline, but I think the Duiker-storyline and the Chain of Dogs is the part that mainly stays with me from this book
It’s funny how you were feeling like what did I get myself into in this book because I never felt that was reading DG but I felt like that pretty much start to finish GotM. And yes, every one of these books has made me feel like I can’t read other books specifically fantasy. I’ve been reading comics after each Malazan to decompress.
F for Coltaine and his Chain of Dogs 🥺😢
I audiobooked this one, and I cannot imagine doing it on 2x speed--ther's just way too much lol, but I have to disagree about the seafaring and military storylines--these were the highlights for me. The Chain of Dogs story is the most incredibly brutal storyline I've come across in a long time. I read Abercrombie in order to take a BREAK from Malazan after this. Now I'm on Memories of Ice and I'm loving it.
I LOVED this book mostly throughout 75%. The first 5% were painful, then it became okay for a while and then it was slog-ish for 20% and then the chain of dogs hit like a train.
I am reading Malazan for the 3rd time and this is one of my favorites, I am almost finished with Dust of Dreams and had forgotten just how brutal parts of it is, really good though
I really liked this book, had me in tears in some moments. For me the writing was even stronger than in Gardens of the Moon. The only minor bad thing i felt was towards the travelling, which i think was executed well but was a bit too much for me at times. Overall im really excited, its a bleek but also inspiring story in a weird and unique world. As you said, Erikson really goes in and seems to not compromise his vision. Im really interested in how this unfolds, first 100 pages in Memory of Ice felt good :)
Ps: i feel for Felisin
I can honestly never understand the Felisin hate. I think those people are giving the benefit of the doubt way too much to Bauden and Heboric. We just accept their word that they wanted to help her, and that she didn't want the help, but all we really ever see is them judging and damning her. They treat her as if she has full and complete agency and not as if she's a spoiled 15 year old child.
I think Felisin is one of the most fascinating and sympathetic characters I've ever read, and the hate she gets mystifies me.
Same.
I think many readers overlook age because you kind of expect adult characters by default unless a clearly defined clique is not adult. But I agree with you, she's not my favourite character or anything but I don't think she's a poor one.
@@violetbliss4399 Yeah, I think two very distinct factors that get overlooked a lot is her age, and drug addiction/withdrawals. Drug addiction mixed with trauma leads to a very bitter and angry facade and I think those two factors in and of themselves excuse a whole lot of what we see from Felisin.
My talk is really just focused on the people that usually say "Felisin is just an angry brat being mean to people trying to help her." Which I would say we never really see any actual help. Bauden goes missing almost immediately, and Heboric is already bitter and cynical dealing with his own stuff and does nothing but judge and belittle. I don't think Felisin owes anything to those two people.
I can understand the way that Felisin is, but I just don’t like reading the chapters. That sort of mentality can be hard to read through and ended up my least favorite parts of the book, though I respect what Erikson was trying to do.
Malazan is like Joyce’s Finnegans Wake you need to immerse yourself in Spoilers and Cliff Notes before you actually read the books to understand the plots and raison d’etre of the novels.
If you think it is dark now ....yes it is but it gets darker and darker.
Great video! I really liked the art work you used in your intro.
Good review. This book is top three in the series for me. I loved the tone of it. The problems you had with this one will definitely creep up again and again in the rest of the books, but like you say, it is worth it for all the good things that happen.
If you don't care for sea faring stories, I'm very curious how you will take Live Ship Traders. But, I do hope you will enjoy it.
I just know you're going to love Memories of Ice. You said you're a big fan of grimdark, have you ever read Berserk?
Have you considered asking Erikson for an interview?
"the most brutal and the most powerfull endings... the last 100 pages especially".... Well be ready for 8 more books of that! And I will be sure to check your thoughts on them.
Epic intro
I just started chapter 6 and this book by far has been more difficult to read than GOTM. It started off in a bit of a slog but has since taken off since chapter 5.
I think Deadhouse Gates is underrated. Sure, it's sloggish, but most of the series was sloggish for me. Around book 5, I resorted to just reading one chapter a day, and I finished the series in about 6 more months.
I really sympathized with Felisin, and one of the marks I'll put against the series can't really be explained without spoiling stuff.
If I was describing the series in brief, I would say that it's amazing, but Eriksen's writing style was hard for me personally to enjoy. That doesn't really detract from the story, and I promise you that if you make it to the end you will NOT regret it.
Coltaine was awesome in this book.
Absolutely.
I'm on book 5 and just love these novels.
I won't lie, I identify more with the Bonehunters than the Bridgeburners.