That's a fine tool you've made. I just put a couple of nutserts into the shell of a truck's APU this evening. As a mechanic I have a love/hate relationship with nutserts ;)
Nice design, like that you put in a thrust washer. I've used rivnuts a lot mostly with an air tool. In a pinch I just used a bolt with a nut and thick washer with a little oil. It works if you just need to do a few every now and then.
Hiu Mark, I am impressed with your channel and the projects you come up with. Thumbs up for that. My thoughts on the design of the Nutsert tool. the thrust bearing is loaded up by the narrow shoulder on the bolt and the face of the locking nut at the bottom of the tool. the shoulder of the bolt is too narrow a surface to bear on the thrust washer and it will distort the thrust bearing. An alternative concept for Mark II is to place the Thrust washer in a recess on the top of the tool then use a thick washer (5mm +) over the thrust washer through which the bolt passes. the bolt will load the thick washer, the thick washer will evenly load the thrust washer onto the body of the tool , which will then tension the Nutsert. there are no point loads and no locking washer to worry about. the thick washer at the top can be held in with a C clip as it takes no loads other than to keep the thick washer from falling out. I would suggest that the bolt is held in place by a rubber O ring in a groove in the inside hole of the thick washer. The bolt would then just be held in by rubber friction and easily replaced from one size to another.
Hi Mark. I can't believe I hadn't seen this video before. I thought I had seen all your stuff. Anyway, being a former vehicle builder I have some experience with rivnuts. One of the comments below mentioned that they didn't like them due them spinning. One way to try and avoid this happening is to use some permanent thread lock on the knurling before fastening them. The correct size hole is also a help.
Thanks Douglas. I am considering modifying this tool so that the threaded spindle is used to pull directly rather than acting like a screw in a nut. I did have a couple of 4mm rivnuts strip while forming them. The 6mm rivnuts I have used previously all worked perfectly but as it is now it's possible to damage the thread due to excessive friction. Regards, Mark
That is a neat piece of work and a nice looking tool. I think however that this method of compressing the rivnut has the disadvantage that you use the thread of the rivnut to do the work while the regular tools only pull with a threaded rod that is stationary in the thread of the rivnut. I think that the latter method has less risk to destroy the thread in the process. I would use a bolt with a washer and a nut. Screw the bolt in the rivnut, then tighten the nut wirh a spanner while preventing the bolt from turning with another spanner. In that way you don't need a special tool with a better result.
I see your point. Well spotted! I must admit since making the tool, I haven't actually used it for any sort of project. I'm waiting for the right job to come along.
I will be modifying a lever action pop rivet tool to achieve this, but need to make something for use in confined/restricted spaces working on my classic cars. Those pop rivet type nutsetters are only capable of setting the smallest Rivnuts.
In the US I drill holes for dowel pins in the jaws of old adjustable wrenches. The best type wrench are so called RAIL ROAD OR FORD wrenches. This makes a very strong, adjustable, and reversible pin spanner wrench.
I mount these rivnuts always by using a (locking)washer and a bolt and then just tightening them till the rivnut grips and expands. No tools needed except a spanner, which is always in my toolbox
Barrie, I initially played around with that method but I am one of those poor folk who will always overthink a process and then over engineer it too! The tool spends most of it's life in drawer but on the few occasions I needed to use it, it's worked for me so I don't regret spending the time to make it. Regards, Mark
👍 I will be modifying a lever action pop rivet tool, but need to make something like yours for use in confined/restricted spaces working on my classic cars. Those pop rivet type nutsetters are only capable of setting the smallest Rivnuts, BUT even then, you need to have Popeye's muscles!
That's what I was thinking. I was having trouble setting 3/16" pop rivets with a hand type riveter so I bought a pneumatic one. I used the rivnut tool to set some 6mm nuts a while ago and it worked great. I have since parkerised it too so it looks nice and sinister, like a Glock special! Regards, Mark
I like it and I made something similar a while back. Why not instead of a pin wrench, cut flats on 2 or 4 sides and simply use a wrench? Can that stand up to an impact wrench or a serious drill?
Mark was very sad when the Melbourne race was cancelled at the last minute 😢 It's the only race that gets broadcast in full on free to air TV here in Australia. I recently ran that little rivnut tool through my parkerising process and it looks great. Regards, Mark
Ron, yes a pneumatic gun would be great but I baulked at the price. The unit in the video was used recently to set some 6mm rivnuts and it worked great. It is compact enough to get into some tight spaces too.
I work in aviation. We use riv-nuts all the time. Pneumatic can pull too hard and rip the threaded mandrel out of the riv-nut. The hand pull type are better but alot of folks can still rip the threaded mandrel throught the riv-nut again destroying the Riv-nut. Your style of tool is best. You get a good sense of feel as the riv-nut forms in the material. Feel is EVERYTHING. Knowing when to stop forming the riv-nut is a learned thing. Practice on several pieces first. Sacrifice a few riv-nuts to the gods and learn. Not formed enough and the riv-nut will spin in the item you're installing it into. Drawing in the riv-nut too much and you rip the threads out. After about 5 to 10 Sacrificial pieces and you will be a riv-nut PRO. Your tool is the best for "feel"
Thanks, I did strip a few threads early on. I find the smaller nuts can be difficult to get consistent. So far I have only used aluminium ones. Regards, Mark
Cool, I just have to buy some thrust washers to make one of these tools (I’m a skip rat and pulled out a couple of thousand rivnuts) will come in very handy. Any recommendations on where I’d buy the thrust washers cheap enough?? Thanks for showing us this tool as it looks very useful indeed, take care and look forward to seeing some more of your videos.....Phil
Phil, I got those thrust washers on Ebay. This is a link to a similar type of bearing www.ebay.com.au/itm/10Pcs-6-Different-Types-Thrust-Needle-Roller-Bearings-1-Cage-Needle-2-Washers-/131645807131?var=&hash=item1ea6b39a1b The original seller is no longer trading but you can select the size that suits you. Good score getting rivnuts out of a skip! Regards, Preso
The thread serts I use have a bit bigger flange with flats on opposite sides. The flats fit the same size as a nut for that thread would. I’ve put in hundreds of 1/4-20 ones with an air ratchet and 7/16 (11mm) open end wrench
I just recently used this tool to put some M6 rivnuts into a sheet metal electric motor cover and it worked great. I had almost machined up a sort of flange plate out of thick aluminium when I remembered I had the tool in my drawer. I don't use it often but there are times when it is worth it's weight in gold. Good idea about the flats on the ones that you use. It would make it a lot easier to stop them rotating as they are formed. Regards, Mark
Mark Presling I saw your use on the motor. Great vid series on the saw conversion. I actually never saw nut-certs that didn’t have flats, like the ones you use. I was wondering why you had built, what I thought was unnecessary, a tool from watching your saw videos. I didn’t understand until I saw you knurling the face.
When you were in Montreal, you were an hour away from here. Those are called Pop-nuts around here, I guess, because they are based on the pop-rivet principle. (It is also a brand name.) 1/4" (~6.4mm) Pop-nuts are nothing to install using the pop-rivet / pliers type tool.
I was wondering how difficult it would be to install the stainless steel ones using the pop rivet type gun. I used this tool to do some 6mm fasteners a few months ago and it worked great. I made that tool and didn't have an immediate use for it so it sat in a drawer until just recently. I had just finished a job where I had to overhaul a 50 watt laser cutter/engraver with a sheet metal chassis. It needed lots of threaded fasteners and most of them were blind so I could appreciate why the rivnuts were an invaluable solution. BTW, loved Montreal and all of Canada that we have seen so far. We went back there last year for a second look. Regards, Mark
I live in the U.K and didn't know about the meridian line, and i had never heard of John Harrison until he was mentioned in Only Fools and Horses .... how bad is that :-( .... i'm learning every day now though .. thank you youtube
I read a great book about John Harrison. It was called Longitude and in the book it described the chronometers he made and I badly wanted to see those clocks up close. The finish and quality of the metalworking was incredible and to think they were made in the days of sailing ships makes it even more amazing. On the same day we went to the observatory we also walked down the hill to Greenwich to check out the Cutty Sark. Another incredible piece of technology. You people from the "old country" are so lucky to have such a rich history and have it so accessible. We here in Oz look at one of our hundred year old buildings and describe them as "historic" Err... not really!
Matt, Yeah, sorry about that but there are alternatives to the way I have created my solution. I have seen some tools that were nothing more than a threaded bolt and a nut plus a few washers.
I was about to say no but then I realised that I did model it in Autodesk Inventor and I do have the 2D drawings. If you email me I can send you the PDF of the print. mark.presling@gmail.com Regards, Mark
Sorry, I didn't make any models or drawings for this tools but not many of the dimensions are critical. Just use whatever scrap you have and it should work.
This method of riveting the rivnut is OK in a pinch, but not the best method and very much not a good idea on aluminium rivnuts. This method is prematurely wearing or streaching the thread. Rivnuts are best pulled like a pop rivet, leaving the thread unworn.
I don't like the idea of turning the bolt to pull the rivnut up. Much better to have the threads not move and use a nut or equiv to pull the rivnut tight.
That's true. I saw a version that did exactly that but I have never had a case where I have stripped the thread out of the rivnut when installing it. Probably if you are using stainless steel rivnuts they would require a lot more force to compress the stem but the threads would be stronger too. I have only ever used aluminium rivnuts. Regards, Mark
I have not been impressed with rivnuts when I have come across them on commercial furniture. The problem is that they spin to easily causing problems with assembling or disassembling furniture. The other place they are used is to take threaded castor shafts and they just don't hold up under the rough treatment of use in a secondary school. As you can see I am no fan of them.
Mark, Would you believe that I have never actually used that tool for setting any rivnuts! I made it after doing a job where I needed to attach lots of cable clamps to the chassis of my laser cutter. Many of the holes were blind and in thin sheet metal. I didn't want to use pop rivets because I was constantly removing things to test the build. I badly wanted a rivnut setter and when I saw how much they cost I decided to make one. It does work but I have never needed it since. Still, it's nice to know it's there. I understand what you mean about the failure rate but in metal structures they seem to be solid as long as you use the correct drill diameter. Regards, Mark
Seems though that's not necessarily the fault of the rivnut...rather a poor choice on the part of the person designing the furniture. Choose the wrong fastener or fastening method and something is bound to fail.
David, I cannot for the life of me understand why Danny Ric went to Renault. It has been painful to watch. I can only think he took a huge pay increase when he made the switch. I suspect he may have also seen the writing on the wall when Max Verstappen was proclaimed as the wunderkind.
Good stuff! Very handy those rivnuts! A stack of them went rusty on my JCB backhoe, simple to drill out and replace, good as new!
That's a fine tool you've made. I just put a couple of nutserts into the shell of a truck's APU this evening. As a mechanic I have a love/hate relationship with nutserts ;)
Nice design, like that you put in a thrust washer. I've used rivnuts a lot mostly with an air tool. In a pinch I just used a bolt with a nut and thick washer with a little oil. It works if you just need to do a few every now and then.
Thanks, I found that even with the thrust washer, the end cap is sometimes prone to unscrewing as you pull up and deform the rivnut.
Hiu Mark,
I am impressed with your channel and the projects you come up with. Thumbs up for that.
My thoughts on the design of the Nutsert tool. the thrust bearing is loaded up by the narrow shoulder on the bolt and the face of the locking nut at the bottom of the tool.
the shoulder of the bolt is too narrow a surface to bear on the thrust washer and it will distort the thrust bearing.
An alternative concept for Mark II is to place the Thrust washer in a recess on the top of the tool then use a thick washer (5mm +) over the thrust washer through which the bolt passes.
the bolt will load the thick washer, the thick washer will evenly load the thrust washer onto the body of the tool , which will then tension the Nutsert.
there are no point loads and no locking washer to worry about. the thick washer at the top can be held in with a C clip as it takes no loads other than to keep the thick washer from falling out.
I would suggest that the bolt is held in place by a rubber O ring in a groove in the inside hole of the thick washer.
The bolt would then just be held in by rubber friction and easily replaced from one size to another.
great video - thank you!!
Hi Mark. I can't believe I hadn't seen this video before. I thought I had seen all your stuff. Anyway, being a former vehicle builder I have some experience with rivnuts. One of the comments below mentioned that they didn't like them due them spinning. One way to try and avoid this happening is to use some permanent thread lock on the knurling before fastening them. The correct size hole is also a help.
Thanks Douglas. I am considering modifying this tool so that the threaded spindle is used to pull directly rather than acting like a screw in a nut. I did have a couple of 4mm rivnuts strip while forming them. The 6mm rivnuts I have used previously all worked perfectly but as it is now it's possible to damage the thread due to excessive friction.
Regards,
Mark
That is a neat piece of work and a nice looking tool. I think however that this method of compressing the rivnut has the disadvantage that you use the thread of the rivnut to do the work while the regular tools only pull with a threaded rod that is stationary in the thread of the rivnut. I think that the latter method has less risk to destroy the thread in the process. I would use a bolt with a washer and a nut. Screw the bolt in the rivnut, then tighten the nut wirh a spanner while preventing the bolt from turning with another spanner. In that way you don't need a special tool with a better result.
I see your point. Well spotted! I must admit since making the tool, I haven't actually used it for any sort of project. I'm waiting for the right job to come along.
I will be modifying a lever action pop rivet tool to achieve this, but need to make something for use in confined/restricted spaces working on my classic cars.
Those pop rivet type nutsetters are only capable of setting the smallest Rivnuts.
In the US I drill holes for dowel pins in the jaws of old adjustable wrenches. The best type wrench are so called RAIL ROAD OR FORD wrenches. This makes a very strong, adjustable, and reversible pin spanner wrench.
I mount these rivnuts always by using a (locking)washer and a bolt and then just tightening them till the rivnut grips and expands. No tools needed except a spanner, which is always in my toolbox
Barrie, I initially played around with that method but I am one of those poor folk who will always overthink a process and then over engineer it too! The tool spends most of it's life in drawer but on the few occasions I needed to use it, it's worked for me so I don't regret spending the time to make it.
Regards,
Mark
+Mark Presling how much for that tool without the ratchet spanner?
Nice tool thank you.
👍
I will be modifying a lever action pop rivet tool, but need to make something like yours for use in confined/restricted spaces working on my classic cars.
Those pop rivet type nutsetters are only capable of setting the smallest Rivnuts, BUT even then, you need to have Popeye's muscles!
That's what I was thinking. I was having trouble setting 3/16" pop rivets with a hand type riveter so I bought a pneumatic one. I used the rivnut tool to set some 6mm nuts a while ago and it worked great. I have since parkerised it too so it looks nice and sinister, like a Glock special!
Regards,
Mark
I like it and I made something similar a while back. Why not instead of a pin wrench, cut flats on 2 or 4 sides and simply use a wrench? Can that stand up to an impact wrench or a serious drill?
Yes, I did consider cutting flats for a spanner but I had in mind the idea that I wanted to make a pin wrench anyway.
Nicely made. Hope F1 is making a comeback soon :)
Mark was very sad when the Melbourne race was cancelled at the last minute 😢 It's the only race that gets broadcast in full on free to air TV here in Australia. I recently ran that little rivnut tool through my parkerising process and it looks great.
Regards,
Mark
Great video interesting, i would buy an air one but limited to places where you have room to get it in to operate it
Ron, yes a pneumatic gun would be great but I baulked at the price. The unit in the video was used recently to set some 6mm rivnuts and it worked great. It is compact enough to get into some tight spaces too.
I work in aviation. We use riv-nuts all the time. Pneumatic can pull too hard and rip the threaded mandrel out of the riv-nut.
The hand pull type are better but alot of folks can still rip the threaded mandrel throught the riv-nut again destroying the Riv-nut.
Your style of tool is best. You get a good sense of feel as the riv-nut forms in the material. Feel is EVERYTHING. Knowing when to stop forming the riv-nut is a learned thing. Practice on several pieces first. Sacrifice a few riv-nuts to the gods and learn.
Not formed enough and the riv-nut will spin in the item you're installing it into. Drawing in the riv-nut too much and you rip the threads out.
After about 5 to 10 Sacrificial pieces and you will be a riv-nut PRO.
Your tool is the best for "feel"
Thanks, I did strip a few threads early on. I find the smaller nuts can be difficult to get consistent. So far I have only used aluminium ones.
Regards,
Mark
Cool, I just have to buy some thrust washers to make one of these tools (I’m a skip rat and pulled out a couple of thousand rivnuts) will come in very handy. Any recommendations on where I’d buy the thrust washers cheap enough?? Thanks for showing us this tool as it looks very useful indeed, take care and look forward to seeing some more of your videos.....Phil
Phil, I got those thrust washers on Ebay. This is a link to a similar type of bearing www.ebay.com.au/itm/10Pcs-6-Different-Types-Thrust-Needle-Roller-Bearings-1-Cage-Needle-2-Washers-/131645807131?var=&hash=item1ea6b39a1b
The original seller is no longer trading but you can select the size that suits you. Good score getting rivnuts out of a skip!
Regards,
Preso
Have you got an idea for a more compact tool?
The thread serts I use have a bit bigger flange with flats on opposite sides. The flats fit the same size as a nut for that thread would. I’ve put in hundreds of 1/4-20 ones with an air ratchet and 7/16 (11mm) open end wrench
I just recently used this tool to put some M6 rivnuts into a sheet metal electric motor cover and it worked great. I had almost machined up a sort of flange plate out of thick aluminium when I remembered I had the tool in my drawer. I don't use it often but there are times when it is worth it's weight in gold. Good idea about the flats on the ones that you use. It would make it a lot easier to stop them rotating as they are formed.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Presling I saw your use on the motor. Great vid series on the saw conversion. I actually never saw nut-certs that didn’t have flats, like the ones you use. I was wondering why you had built, what I thought was unnecessary, a tool from watching your saw videos. I didn’t understand until I saw you knurling the face.
When you were in Montreal, you were an hour away from here. Those are called Pop-nuts around here, I guess, because they are based on the pop-rivet principle. (It is also a brand name.) 1/4" (~6.4mm) Pop-nuts are nothing to install using the pop-rivet / pliers type tool.
I was wondering how difficult it would be to install the stainless steel ones using the pop rivet type gun. I used this tool to do some 6mm fasteners a few months ago and it worked great. I made that tool and didn't have an immediate use for it so it sat in a drawer until just recently. I had just finished a job where I had to overhaul a 50 watt laser cutter/engraver with a sheet metal chassis. It needed lots of threaded fasteners and most of them were blind so I could appreciate why the rivnuts were an invaluable solution.
BTW, loved Montreal and all of Canada that we have seen so far. We went back there last year for a second look.
Regards,
Mark
I recently purchased from amazon a 10/32 rubber rivnut set - I can't get them to work for the life of me.
I live in the U.K and didn't know about the meridian line, and i had never heard of John Harrison until he was mentioned in Only Fools and Horses .... how bad is that :-( .... i'm learning every day now though .. thank you youtube
I read a great book about John Harrison. It was called Longitude and in the book it described the chronometers he made and I badly wanted to see those clocks up close. The finish and quality of the metalworking was incredible and to think they were made in the days of sailing ships makes it even more amazing. On the same day we went to the observatory we also walked down the hill to Greenwich to check out the Cutty Sark. Another incredible piece of technology. You people from the "old country" are so lucky to have such a rich history and have it so accessible. We here in Oz look at one of our hundred year old buildings and describe them as "historic" Err... not really!
How can i buy this ?
I want one. I was hoping it was a little more DIY without expensive shop tools
Matt,
Yeah, sorry about that but there are alternatives to the way I have created my solution. I have seen some tools that were nothing more than a threaded bolt and a nut plus a few washers.
Any chance of getting some plans for this?
I was about to say no but then I realised that I did model it in Autodesk Inventor and I do have the 2D drawings. If you email me I can send you the PDF of the print. mark.presling@gmail.com
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 done.
how much to build me one?
in USA called 'blind threaded rivet'
Shark tank is the next step.
is it possible for you to email me the drawings so I could make one?
Sorry, I didn't make any models or drawings for this tools but not many of the dimensions are critical. Just use whatever scrap you have and it should work.
This method of riveting the rivnut is OK in a pinch, but not the best method and very much not a good idea on aluminium rivnuts. This method is prematurely wearing or streaching the thread. Rivnuts are best pulled like a pop rivet, leaving the thread unworn.
I don't like the idea of turning the bolt to pull the rivnut up. Much better to have the threads not move and use a nut or equiv to pull the rivnut tight.
That's true. I saw a version that did exactly that but I have never had a case where I have stripped the thread out of the rivnut when installing it. Probably if you are using stainless steel rivnuts they would require a lot more force to compress the stem but the threads would be stronger too. I have only ever used aluminium rivnuts.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I absolutely agree. I only use stainless but must use high tensile nutz&boltz. That being said, your video demonstration is excellent. 👍👍
I have not been impressed with rivnuts when I have come across them on commercial furniture. The problem is that they spin to easily causing problems with assembling or disassembling furniture. The other place they are used is to take threaded castor shafts and they just don't hold up under the rough treatment of use in a secondary school. As you can see I am no fan of them.
Mark,
Would you believe that I have never actually used that tool for setting any rivnuts! I made it after doing a job where I needed to attach lots of cable clamps to the chassis of my laser cutter. Many of the holes were blind and in thin sheet metal. I didn't want to use pop rivets because I was constantly removing things to test the build. I badly wanted a rivnut setter and when I saw how much they cost I decided to make one. It does work but I have never needed it since. Still, it's nice to know it's there. I understand what you mean about the failure rate but in metal structures they seem to be solid as long as you use the correct drill diameter.
Regards,
Mark
Seems though that's not necessarily the fault of the rivnut...rather a poor choice on the part of the person designing the furniture. Choose the wrong fastener or fastening method and something is bound to fail.
Daniel sadly now with a failing Renault.... not Red Bull anymore.
David,
I cannot for the life of me understand why Danny Ric went to Renault. It has been painful to watch. I can only think he took a huge pay increase when he made the switch. I suspect he may have also seen the writing on the wall when Max Verstappen was proclaimed as the wunderkind.
I sent an email from Brazil requesting pdf
Thanks. I think we made contact.
Regards,
Mark