FANTASY VS FANTASY ROMANCE ~ pros and cons ~ let's discuss
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- Опубликовано: 13 мар 2024
- FANTASY VS FANTASY ROMANCE ~ pros and cons ~ let's discuss
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I am a woman and I’m one of those who says that they do not care for romance in my books. It is not that I don’t want people falling in love, it is a natural and beautiful thing that happens to people, but it is because of the way in which romance is typically portrayed in the stories. For one thing, many books portray some behaviors that I’d consider problematic in a relationship as if they were desirable (dependence, jealousy...) and it is something that I cannot get over. What is more, and speaking generally, when romance is a big focus of the plot, there has to be some tension to keep the plot going, and many times the authors tend to go for the “easy” route of depicting scenes that you want to avoid in a healthy relationship, but then, in a healthy relationship there is no drama and then there is no obstacle to overcome in the plot and is “boring”. Again, I’m not opposed to characters falling in love, but when the building of that relationship gets a large focus in the story I typically find that authors lean into a series of red flags just to keep things interesting.
That drama could just as easily come from a broader conflict, namely, a plot that's exciting in its own right. In my opinion romance is just so much better and more high stakes (and less problematic!) when as a sideplot, whether it's small or big. The much-needed tension can be sourced from how two characters react or clash in situations not directly pertaining to their relationship, and develop their dynamic more organically that way. But then, such a book would hardly be considered romantasy.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I also always worry about the impact of the amount of problematic romance shown as something desirable and it's impact on younger audience.
@@black-aliss exactly, that's what I had in mind, and I agree that this would never be pitched as a romance book. I also think that when a romance is done in this way the characters tend to be developed in their own right and also as a part of the couple. Many times it seems that they lose their identity and motivations and all that they can be or think about is the romantic interest...
This is a good point.
@@SimplementInefable And that's how good stories die! And characters. Give them something to do, people IRL who don't have anything to do but think about each other and overanalyse and jump into pointless dramas eventually drive one another bonkers. Same with books.
@17:00 I actually feel tired of romance being in everything, not because I hate love, but because it feels like now, a romance gets shoehorned into everything with zero effort put into making it make sense. It's a relief to read a new fantasy novel that doesn't take a massive detour for a romance I'm barely invested in because the author didn't put in the work to make the romance believable.
Exactly. I'm also not a fan of romance totally erasing the rest of the MC's goals and motivations. And character.
YES!! Ugh. So tired of this.
❤You nailed it.
This is my take too. I’m tired of it, mostly because as a woman, it’s shoehorned into ALL the media directed at me. It’s annoying, sometimes I just want something without it that’s still complex and intriguing and relatable to me.
Stephen King, The Belgariad and Berserk are the only books that actually made me care about romance, and romance isn’t even their main selling point.
My AroAce ass couldn't agree more. No faster way to make me disengage from a story.
I used to think I didn't like romance in books, then I realised I just didn't like bad romances in books.
This is the hardest thing to do. IDK how to avoid bad romance books. Sometimes reviews for books are so vastly different and I can't decide whether I should read a book.
You are spot on about romance is often excluded from relationship building ppl love seeing in fantasy. I am personally more critical about romantasy simply bc many mainstream romantasy books just simply don't write chemistry well. And many of them are carbon copies of popular love interests particularly sjm's. I love chemistry in Emily Wilde's series, Half a Soul, The Thorns Remain and so on. It's just that for romantasy I feel is super focused on lust and skinship and fail to explore what makes two or more characters in love stand out on their own and makes their interactions interesting
Because I read Half a Soul I understand more what you refere to and I do agree. I want to read romantasy...but I am that disapointed, probably because of my expectations, that the hole connection is missing and after the third scene I lose interest.
Correct me if needed but I believe the book Six Scorched Roses is a romantasy and for me it was such a good book. I like recommending it. Not because falling in love aspect, find it far feched, but for me the pull between them was present and surtain tention so the spicy part was more than " look at that body [🙄] he is so hot"😂
@@miyayume_eclectic_dreamyes, that's romantasy. Carissa Broadbent is one of the best IMO with relationship building in her books. Her Daughter of No Worlds Series is my absolute favorite relationship in all of romantasy. A slow build built on respect, shared morals and true equal companionship.
I just finished Radiance and the author does such a great job of building the relationship based on learning each others personalities and not at all based on looks and instant lust.
The “carbon copies” litter all of Kindle Unlimited, I find myself sooooo fatigued with romantasy because the sheer number of it! I devote so much time filing through books just browsing 😢
Exactly. I love Fantasy, but avoid Romantasy like the plague. Even the name 'Romantasy' makes me roll my eyes! Sarah J Maas & crowd? No thank you.
G.R.R.M, Joe Abercrombie, Tolkien, Robin Hobb etc. Give me THOSE authors👏
I would like to know beforehand if the story if going to be explicit or not
nobody seems to take care of that...
Many do in the blurb/book summary on Amazon. Fade-to-black, clean, etc, but I agree this should be standard for every single one.
My question is: is romantasy a subgenre of fantasy, or a subgenre of romance? I'm asking myself (and for context I love, love, love epic fantasy as much as romantasy and romance) because a friend of mine, who is a romance writer, told me one day: "Fantasy is not harder to write than romance. Fantasy is just another decor, like university for university romance or the office for office romance." As a fantasy writer I was appalled, but then I thought to myself: is she wrong, though? For romantasy at least, sometimes the world can feel very cardboard because it doesn't matter as much as the relationship, it's just a backdrop. In this sense, to me romance and romantasy belong much more to the same genre than fantasy and romantasy do. Does it make sense?
I have heard that romantasy is a sub-genre fantasy or romance, depending on where I read it, so I'm confused. I've never read any of the currently popular romantasy, but I've been reading romantic fantasy (fantasy with a romantic sub-plot) like Robin McKinley, Sharon Shinn, Lois McMaster Bujold, Mercedes Lackey, Juliet Marillier, etc. since the 1980's. The only reason I have a concern about this is that 99% of the fantasy romance (romance with some fantasy tropes) hasn't appealed to me. If I'm looking for recommendations, I don't want fantasy romance because I probably won't like it. I guess what I'm trying to say is what genre is romantasy a new word for: fantasy romance or romantic fantasy (the distinction between those two was explained to me by a now defunct website and related mailing list back in the 90's).
I'm a woman who dislikes romance in my books 😂 I am tired of romance being in every single fantasy book, even those that claim there's no romance there. I want to read about other things like friendship and sisterhood and pets and that's okay. Not everything appeals to everyone and there is no universal right or wrong, only what's right or wrong for you as a reader.
It’s not that I am opposed to romance wholesale, but I am not into most romances because most romances are shallow in my experience. The author typically doesn’t take the time to give it depth, and instead focuses on the physical aspects of the relationships. I cannot tell you the number of times I have read stories where emotionally, mentally, and/or spiritually a couple is at complete odds with one another but somehow they are completely incapable of keeping their clothes on when they are together. That is NOT love. That’s lust, and it’s lazy writing.
This has made me think more about when I say “I don’t like romance”, I maybe need to be more careful about my phrasing! What I tend to mean when I say I don’t like romance is that I don’t like spicey scenes because they make me cringe but I actually do like a nice, cute romance in a book, like Jane Austen is one of my favourite authors… so I will definitely be more careful about my wording in future!
The biggest con I have for Romantasy books (especially the popular ones on booktok) is that the author is trying to juggle both the romance and fantasy subplots, and they fail at both.
I've found that the romance is rushed or not believable. There is nothing about the two characters that makes me believe these two would fall for each other. What is it about them that makes you choose them? Especially enemies to lovers tropes; they go from wanting to kill each other, to loving each other after one admirable event.
Moving to the subpar fantasy part, a lot of these stories outside of one elelment (there's fae/vampires/dragons) the fantasy world is not explored. The worldbuilding is minimal, and the outside elements of that world are never explored in favor of a bland romance plot. I can't seem to find a romantacy that has both an enriching fantasy land as well as a believable romance between the two characters.
Im not sure I agree with the whole “Fantasy books written by women will be assumed to be fantasy romance” idea. There are SO MANY fantasy books written by women that contain a romance subplot but are not classified as Romantasy: The Priory of the Orange Tree, the Daevabad Trilogy, Sword of Kaigen kinda, Godkiller, Emily Wilde etc. I think it’s very easy for readers to tell when something places more emphasis on the fantasy worldbuilding than on the romance. I think what separates romantasy from fantasy with a romance subplot is how much dramatic weight is given to the romance elements. In something like Twilight, the romance is all you’re reading for because it’s the only thing that drives the plot versus something like Daevabad where the romance is used to drive tension between the characters and does not have a huge impact on the story overall. I’m not saying there aren’t biases when it comes to gender and perceived value but let’s be honest, are Twilight and ASOIAF on the same level as each other? Probably not.
Twillight vs ASOIAF 😂 they are so faaar apart.
I thought I didn't like romance in my books. Veronica Speedwell series, The Words of Kings and Prophets, The Priory of the Orange Tree etc. have proved me wrong. The thing is, I only like romance where both parties are mature, respect each other and communicate well. And currently, I feel like the trend is exploring more stormy and sometimes toxic types of romance and that's fine, but that's just not something I ever want to read about. So I still feel like I don't really like most of the romance plots, but there are some that really stand out.
Could you please recommend more books like that ? That’s exactly how I like it , but you are right, right now it’s all about toxic relationships and I DO NOT want to read about it as I don’t find it romantic at all… I hate this notion of romanticizing mistreatment and toxicity.
@@marisha9 Yes. I feel like it normalizes such relationships and the fact that teens read Colleen Hover etc is honestly terrifying to me as not all people that review books with toxic romance add that it's not at all a healthy behavior. Hmm, let me think. I've found that also in The Weaver and the Witch Queen. I feel like I can't really think about more on the spot (which kind of is sad..) but I really recommend the previous ones if you haven't read any of them. The Words of Kings and Prophets is a sequel to The Children of Gods and Fighting Men and I've read that when severely depressed and it honestly made me feel really really deep feelings in a period when I didn't feel much. It will live in my brain forever. There is also a mention of a abusive relationship but it's definitely treated as such and it's not making the reader cheer for it, which is I think precisely my issue with problematic portrayals of some of the romances.
Oh maybe The Pomegranate Gate, Keeper of Enchanted Rooms, Blood over Bright Haven, The Winnowing Flame? Mind you, in some of them the romance is a very minuscule part of a plot, but usually if the characters have some internal struggles and problems in a relationship, they're at least aware of it! Cause it's also not like I only enjoy 100% unproblematic romance, but ones that are realistic and portray people that are each whole but together they are even stronger. And they realize what they need to work through.
@@cat.book.nook.A great series is The Others, the first book is Written In Red. I've re read this series 4 times. I have a booktube friend that dies the same. Hope this gives you one option.
@@surpriseitsus9622 I think I've never heard about it! Checking it out!
Totally agree with you here. I like my romance in a fantasy book to be "side quest" level and not the entirety of the novel. Romance and relationships are normal in any type of world, but when it takes over the whole book I find it boring and not built well. Song of Silver did the side romance well and SJM is just romance within a fantasy world. But some people want that. I think too many just don't know the distinction and end up reading something they don't expect.
Honestly, whenever I try to talk about the difference between how things market for women are treated differently then things marketed for men. How things marketed for women are treated as vapid and lacking substance. People always look at me like they have no idea what I am talking about. but things that "Women" like, expecially young one are overly criticized, IMHO and I think sometimes, and I had to do it to because I also used to shit all over romance as a genre, there is some internalized misogyny that needs to be unpacked. Which is not a matter of preference but a matter of value.
I have always preferred fantasy with a romance subplot, I don't generally enjoy a fantasy with 0 romance because I like watching characters grow through interpersonal relationships and romantic ones are equally important relationships to explore.
And I am glad they are seperating romantasy and fantasy a bit because I feel like they don't scratch the same itch for me and if I am expecting a romance and I end up with a political fantasy, I am not going to have as good a time. I need books to be marketed correctly, my own expectation ruin it for me all the time.
Romantasy don't alway work for me because I find that either the romance or the fantasy is lacking ( it was my problem with Fourth Wing) but when romantasy is done well, it is easily one of my fav genres.
I think the separation of the categories was needed, I love both and it gives more room for authors to be noticed now there is that separation
I also think it helps people find what they’re looking for
me chilling knowing that the best written romances i've ever read were not found in books marketed as romance or romantasy 🥰
Do you have recommendations? :)
I’ve found much better romance stories in Stephen King and Berserk of all things haha. Horror novels actually tend to have really deep, emotional and humanistic romantic relationships.
Lol frr
Recommendations would be appreciated.
Maybe I'm just picking up the wrong books, but it seems like every fantasy I pick up has some form of romance in it. You mentioned that a lot of fantasy focuses on relationships between mentor and mentee, family, friends, but most of what I pick up has a synopsis of 'girl has mission X and boy has mission Y and they meet and have an adventure' and you know they're going to end up together in the end. I feel like most fantasy has romantic relationships featured rather than friend or family. I dont consider myself a curmudgeon and hate all romance, it's just not what I want to read about. Romance is everywhere in our media and I'd like to see other relationships featured. Even when a book is labeled as just fantasy there is still a romance subplot and I'd just like to see something else. Or if it's going to have romance, make it queer! I see a lot more WLW fantasy coming out and I love to see it. I don't see as much MLM so I'd like to see more of that too. I feel like society sees romance as the most important form of love which is why it's in all of our media, but I just don't feel like that's true. Familial love and love for your friends is just as important and powerful and should be featured more imo
For the question why some people are so opposed to romantic relationships in stories: I can only speak for myself, but I'm really tired of seeing romance in almost every story. This might have to do something with me being aro/ace, but I feel like the world already revolves around romance so much in every aspect and stories of romantic relationships have already been told countless times, that it's refreshing to see other kinds of just as important relationships explored. Whenever I pick up a book and the blurb mentions a "mysterious hot guy" or "that one dude of all people" I immediately put the book down again because I've seen and read that more than enough times. It's boring by now.
There *are* really good romantic stories and relationships, but tbh, they're pretty rare. Most of the time they feel shallow and low-key problematic to me, which again, might have to do with me not being able to relate at all. I usually only like romance when it's without drama and the relationship shows deep trust, understanding and an actual emotional bond between the characters and when it stays in the background and isn't the main focus of the story.
I prefer stories that do NOT have romance as the main driver of the plot. It is A part of the human experience, but not ALL people feel romantic feelings, so it is not part of everyone's life. It can be a way to flesh out characters and give them more depth, but it is not the most important relationship in everyone's lives. The other relationships a character can be part of are also just as valuable to expand the understanding of a character. I think all sorts of stories are important and valuable, but romance is not for all. Not because it is lesser, just because it is not everyone's preference. And everyone's preferences are just fine for them, as you point out.
Yes. This. Thank you.
I'm aromantic and asexual and having romances turn up in every god damned book I read as a teenager was enough to make me despise romance (a little, spiteful part of me would start hoping the less narratively important half would get killed off so I wouldnt have to deal with it) and just totally give up on reading for over a decade.
These days I'm on the hunt for queerplatonic relationships in my books...near impossible to find but oh so good when they turn up.
I think it’s a good thing. There should be more separation of fantasy categories like them bringing back the paranormal fantasy they had in 2011 and making a retellings category. Because as it stands anything remotely fantasy leaning gets pushed into this category. Ultimately, that’s why it seems we traded a fantasy romance for a more paranormal/urban fantasy winning.
I agree, as a paranormal/urban fantasy lady.
From my own personal taste, I don’t purposely seek out romance books of any genre per se, unless it was a piece of classical literature or of particular note. It’s not because I have any adversity towards it because of being a man etc. it’s just not very interesting to me and I find it rather dull and so often unearned and childish in its evolution if there is any at all. At the same time I don’t mind it sparingly sprinkled within Fantasy novels, as it’s a great catalyst for advancing the narrative.
Romance is great when it is done right and it fits the characters, but a lot of time it comes of as cringy or not romantic at all but just base lust which is fine when it fits within the story but does get annoying when it detracts from the flow of it. Andrzej Sapkowski did a great job in my option with The Witcher Series and I loved FFX but if we are talking favorite FF romances mine is Rinoa & Squall
Agree. I feel the same way. Really enjoying the Emily Wilde books, for example, which have a romance in them, but it's not the driving focus of the story and is well-written. I've never been interested in Romance books at all. Love Sapkowski's books 🙂
I agree with your argumentation on why we should separate Fantasy and Fantasy Romance. I used to not really be able to explain why I enjoyed Romantasy (back when that term didn't even exist) vs. Fantasy. I used to say that I enjoyed "Soft Fantasy" because I hate the Romance genre (it just bores me to tears) but I adore Romantasy because it's not as "hard-core" as straight Fantasy. Great video!
That YA stereotyping issue is and was very real. Ask Robin McKinley about that one. She hated, loathed, and despised being categorized as YA. Up until recent years, I thought it was a compliment. YA may have meant Young Adult or sometimes Youth Adult, but it was primarily used for books that just about any age could read and enjoy; from preteens though adults. Tolkien, Jones, Twain, Austen, and more all sat on YA book shelves in stores and libraries for many years.
Unfortunately, there are some who refuse to read YA and label them as just kids’ books. Just as there are some who refuse to read clean romance or romantasy books or fade-to-black because they lack the spice and deem them kids’ books too. I may be biased ‘case I love YA and enjoy Beatrix Potter books and the like too, but folks should read whatever they want. Genres should be a key to finding books you want to read, not a limiting box that one can never read out of.
I do think that the recent trends of putting very explicit books under YA should revert and put those under NA; keep ‘em separate. Because then there are books that are VERY much 18+ with graphic content sitting next to books that a 10 year old could read with a 100 years old grandma and both enjoy. I read A LOT of YA labeled books when I was 4 or 5 and up, but I didn’t read any of those explicit intimate scenes until a couple years ago. I’ve heard stories of kids and parents finding out the wrong way that a book was not as advertised nor labeled; I’ve experienced it myself but I’m an adult.
You’re right- romantasy and fantasy should be separate categories (as a romantasy lover!)❤❤
I agree with your point about miss-classification, the lines can be very blurred between fantasy/romantasy which can lead to that easily happening but ultimately I’m happy with the split, especially when it comes to Goodreads. I feel general fantasy books can shine a bit more there now
Side note: I LOVED Final Fantasy X when I was a kid too! I remember telling people in school about it but nobody knew what I was talking about 😅 I got the remake for PS4 recently and can’t wait to play it again
I generally think that having a specific romantasy genre is a good thing. I do worry about ghettoization of a genre primarily read by young women, but romance as a genre does very well and I think publishers understand that--even if the reading public can be judgmental.
There have been so many cases of fantasy readers picking up a fantasy romance and being frustrated because it doesn't meet their expectations for a story. Romantasy books typically seem to be written with the tropes and expectations of romance, placed in a fantasy setting.
I admit that I've been judgmental about romance books and have not had great experiences with the genre--and have pre-judged romantasy because of it. But I've undertaken a project to read more romance (including romantasy) and try to understand the genre, and to find some gems. That started with recognizing that my favorite fantasy novel is incredibly romantic (but would never be considered romantasy, I don't think). I love *well-written* romance in my fantasy novels.
I do think there will be some bumps as the genre takes shape and becomes more clearly defined (miscategorizations happen in all genre fiction, but hopefully we can minimize that), but in all, I think it will be a net positive for readers.
I don’t mind there being healthy or even unhealthy romance relationships in my books. But if it’s the main focus, the book does seem to suffer… at least the lusty books do. I read a court of thorns and roses, and the first chapter was great, but after the main character was kidnapped all of the tension went into the anticipation of sex. And that just doesn’t do it for me. Also, (and tying into the geeking out thing.) I’ve spoken to several women in real life who’ve told me “oh yes, I love fantasy.” And they mean things like a court of thorns and roses… this is a completely separate thing from the fantasy that I like. Honestly, it’s closer to a teenage boy showing you his pornography collection because you told him you like literature. So sure, let people like what they like. Just call it what it is.
I like romantic relationships in fantasy books, and what I call 'small r romance', but am very hesitant with capital R Romance components. I think this is specifically because some of the elements that are in some of those books (definitely not all, but a noticeable portion).
Just as I am averse to the objectification of women that strays into the offensive by male authors in fantasy, I also find it uncomfortable with the objectification of some of the male characters that some Romantasy has. I don't know that I would think it shouldn't exist because there is an audience for it, but hope it would be clearly identified so people not looking for that wouldn't pick up what they aren't going to like.
I think of how offended I am as a woman when authors minimize and objectify the female characters in a story and suspect there is an element of that for men who would read certain Romantasy stories.
That being said, there is sometimes a reflex reaction, as you mention, that 'ugh there's a romantic relationship, this must be inferior' and I don't know that the people who say that would feel the same if they went in with an open mind. Some might, but some might not.
I personally love romance and the inclusion of romantic relationships in fantasy, but the problem is that a lot of the romantasy I've read is just... bad. Or at the very least not to my taste, but it really seems to be not very good or compelling.
Uh, I think you over thought this. I don't romance in books because it's usually not well written or developed, and it does often over take the plot. I'm not ashamed to admit I love romcom movies 🤷♀.
I don't care what people think.. I just don't like Romance in general. For several reasons and I don't need to justify it to people. Some books may have that component as a sub-plot and I may still like the book, but in spite of it.
I am the same. Always have been. I don't like it that some females are dividing that like/dislike and saying that we are trying to be 'not like other girls' because we don't like Romance etc. Not at all. Just don't like a romance/sex/smut heavy plotline in my reading. Nothing wrong with that!
About your point on fantasy and romantasy, to put it crudely, being divided by gender: I think, it's all social perception on what is considered feminine and what's considered masculine, and how those markers are used in the marketing of fantasy books, that's at work here. I won't go into nitty-gritty, but, broadly speaking, I think romantasy books are almost exclusively marketed for women, be it through pastel-coloured covers or elaborate 'feminine' titles (i.e. a court of thorns and roses - a great example of associations to the feminine). There's also, imo, the issue of rigid gender norms that's historically abundant in high fantasy influencing its male readers, but I'm not opening that can of worms. It's also something that differs from culture to culture, so it might be different in the US.
"Social perception...marketing of fantasy books... rigid gender norms in high fantasy books themself" I am of the same opinion. Hi 🤗 from Europe
This is why I don't like advertising/marketing lol. It's extremely stereotypical.
I don't like romance-focused plot novels at all in my Fantasy (or anywhere haha) and I've always been a High Fantasy girl. G.R.R.M is my favourite, and Joe Abercrombie is fast becoming a favourite. I'm extremely glad that 'Romantasy' (blech) has its own sub-genre, as its apart from the good stuff that I like and I can just avoid those Tik Tok tables! XD
The same goes for Mothers Day. Those ads and display tables are all about some vanilla beach read books, or Romantasy, or some other light hearted, easy to read stuff I'll never ever be interested in. Last year, my kiddo got me Tombs by Junji Ito for my present 🙂
I guess I'm just older and more cynical/jaded from trends on social media.
@@ladyfox6705 Hard agree, I do not enjoy romance at all, so I don't mind the divide either. That said, I think romantasy is very easy to spot, so it's never been a problem for me. It's always some kind of iteration on girl meets hot dude lol, and nothing wrong with that ofc, but it's easily avoidable due to that same aggressive marketing
I don't mind stories that have a romance element (as long as it makes sense and is done well), but I don't like it when it is the focus. I too saw Assassins Apprentice listed with Romantasy and was super hesitant to pick it up. I'm glad I did and was extremely confused about why it was listed there. I also hesitated on Kushiel's Dart for the same reason, but at least with that one there is a romance element but I don't think it is enough of a focus to call it a Romantasy when there is such a focus on politics and war. I feel like if I were a Romantasy reader and picked it up I would be disappointed.
I agree with your summary of the pros and cons of fantasy vs fantasy romance 💯%
I love fantasy and it does not need to include a romance, but if it does the relationships should be written properly or don't include it. But I also love fantasy and romance together, and again if the relationship is not about love, which romance means, and just about smut, I don't want to read that either. I want to be swept away in a fantasy world with great characters who become my friends, and family, so the writing has to be good, it doesn't have to be great, just make sense.
Yeah it is weird. Like stormlight is my favorite book series ever but everytime there is any romance in it I roll my eyes and try to get past it as fast as possible. And idk why
I have always preferred the romance in my fantasy to be secondary to the plot, it’s frustrates me when it becomes the main focus and the plot stops being important and that’s why I don’t gravitate or find interest in fantasy romance., plus I really don’t care about the intimacy levels of the couple lol.
I’m glad the sub genre is being more recognized (because it has always existed) my only real concern is the current hyper focus coming from publishers, Orbit was my go to for fantasy releases and lately a majority of what they have announced has been Romantasy, and it’s starting to feel like fantasy readers who don’t want the heavy focus on the romance are being pushed aside for this current trend. I understand marketing what’s going to sell but I have basically nothing I’m interested in purchasing this year. And I know someone will take this wrong and think I don’t want any romantasy published but that’s not it what I want is balance between the two.
I know you've probably heard a lot of this, but I prefer my romance in my fantasy to be minimized because often times I feel it is so badly done. Don't get me wrong-- I do love romance... when it is done well. A lot of authors rely on insta-love which I cannot stand. There should just be more than physical attraction for characters to fall in love. I have had a few where the romance was poorly hinted at and seemed to have come out of left field. Then there's the romances that include a godawful sex scene that is also supposed to tell me that the characters care for each other when they were just sexually attracted to another. When it's understated I feel there's more left to the imagination and can allow me to have the fuzzy feelings but when it overtakes the plot in what I believed to be a fantasy rich world it feels like the world building was all for naught and was a waste of ideas. It needs more of a balance between the two to still be compelling as well as not feel like I was bamboozled by the premise. Especially when the love interest is a character I absolutely cannot stand, it makes the romance more unbearable for me and when I have limited income on books I am so thoroughly pissed off that I wasted my money when the premise of the magic system and world was more intriguing than what I got served. It feels like I ordered a 5 star meal and got served McDonalds instead as if the two were comparable.
I am also still off the belief that smut needs to be classified as smut so if I want smut I can go for it, but I don't care for it in my media either and also feel like I got ripped off when I went for a fantasy novel that ended up being something I hate reading.
Thaaaaank you omg I can’t stand the poorly constructed fantasy world and then getting the excuse “well that’s not the point” it’s not a good excuse! And absolutely vice versa as well
Everytime that I hear you talk about FFX, I am reminded of when I made myself a cosplay of Yuna and got my hairdresser to cut my hair and told me how to style it like her. We would have been great friends geeking out about FF 😂
Honestly I feel like the issues with mis-categorisation and ‘stereotyping fantasy for women/men’ are absolutely linked. I’ve seen so many fantasy books, that may have a tiny subplot of romance in but it’s mainly a focus for the characters development, get categorised as romantasy when the book is really just fantasy. And unfortunately I feel like I only ever see this done to books written by women… That’s really the only thing that worries me about separating them into two distinct genres - that we’re further dividing books written by men and women into ‘male fantasy’ and ‘female romantasy’. As a bookseller I’ve seen it done countless times times with YA, an adult fantasy book but it’s written by a woman and the main character is female so it’s put in YA, when it’s subject matter is absolutely not appropriate! And I think we’re starting to see this with romantasy now being a genre really just associated with women? I know it’s a bit more complicated than that but it’s a thing I’ve really started to notice - especially when you’re talking about how romantasy is often perceived and ridiculed
The negativity towards romance is because it's a lot of copy & paste, because a lot of people take the easy road instead of making the road a truly unique journey. I'm not a romance guy, but I don't see any "The Notebook" level of romance. You can even go as far as the Weird Science movie. An interesting romance would be from the anime that came out 1987 "Robot Carnival." It's a series of shorts, but the most interesting one is the story called "Presence" where an inventor creates a robot girl, but when the robot fell in love with her creator, the inventor destroys her, only to see her reappear when he's an elderly man. The sexual aspects in romance is the easiest part, because it's narrow in scope.
Yup, as you said. I don't mind them separating the genera out, I read in lots of genera anyway. And if there is Romantasy stigma about it being for girls? You should have tried being a sci-fi geek in the 80's. I copped it hard! I was not only the only girl who read sci-fi in my community, I was the only TEENAGER who read it full stop. SO I totally know those feels as a kid, desperate to find anyone interested in their particular brand of geek. The internet is great for bringing communities together.
I think genre as a section of the bookstore/library tells you, in general, what kind of book it is. And therefore fantasy romance should be a subsection of romance, and urban fantasy could be either a subsection of mystery or fantasy, but it should be clearly marked out. If it's not marked by a section, it should be marked by cover art. When I go to the fantasy section, I'm looking for fantasy, not anything that could possibly be classified as fantasy. There is now so much in the fantasy section that is NOT what I'm looking for that going to the bookstore feels like a waste of time. Instead of browsing fantasy books, I'm looking for the fantasy books.
Loved the message in this ❤️
Love your outlook on all of this it’s totally spot on. I’ve had multiple eye rolls from men when I say I read fantasy romance
Honestly, fantasy romance should be a win for me, but it consistently isn't! I think it has to do with the fact that pretty consistently, at least with the ones I've tried, the fantasy or the romance ends up being really half-baked - often both. I don't know, maybe I've just picked bad books. I want to like the subgenre. I feel like the authors are like "Well, I'm writing smut, so I don't really have to think about the world building that much," and also, "Oh well my character can be cookie cutter because I have this fantasy world to hold the audience's attention." I need both. To be frank, I need a lot more than that. I need well thought through themes and a compelling reason to care about the world and characters that is deep. I'm more invested in romance when the author seems to care about the whole package.
I think you really hit the nail on the head with this one 🙌
I absolutely loved your impression of your younger self. Big hugs to that little girl at the library!
I work in a bookshop and I am always asking for us to have a seperate romance section becasue people have different expectations and I don't understand why you'd make it harder for people to find the books they want by mixing them into fiction or scifi/fantasy. But I do love a sub-genre.
I LOVE romance. But in that respect, animanga and Korean/Chinese dramas are my go to 😂 I can’t with them in romantasy books. It’s not because of romance itself but because of how romance is often portrayed in *romantasy books* specifically.
Lust, swearing and 2D character archetypes are at the forefront of romance books and thus, romantasy as a sub-genre of romance. Not into that 😭
I've seen people say that authors can't juggle romantic and fantastical plots and I'm just here, frantically pointing to Love and Redemption, Who Rules the World, Ashes of Love and the dozens of romantic Xianxia dramas alone.
Hell even if Dangai are censored they still manage to nail that balance and the books theyre based on manage even better.
I have always said that I don't like romance, and it took me until just a couple of years ago to realize that it's because I'm ace and I can't connect to the characters in romances. I feel super uncomfortable reading romance because I don't inherently understand the language. "My heart skipped a beat," "his eyes darkened and I felt something in my core," like I don't know what that means???? And growing up it felt like I was the only one who couldn't add to the conversation, so I think I just programmed my brain to cringe when it came to romance, and now I don't know how (or even if I want) to change that.
Same. I was also so confused and irritated at the romances in dire situations. I would always think "Why are you wasting time on this when the world is literally ending? There are more important things than snogging the cute guy right now. Get your priorities straight." 😅
I'm glad I watched this. I've really struggled with romance in fantasy for a long time and I can't really explain why. Since I've been reading the Wheel of Time series, which genuinely feels like forever (:, the joy I get reading the romance subplots is unbelievable, and it's reignited my love for romance completely.
Awesome video 👏👏 Cool points. Just like you said, some books back in the day, and even today, get you eye rolled lol.
New to the romantasy style.. needed a change and like you said, only certain books and authors are talked about. Book stores mix them up. Fell on this genre kinda by accident.
Keep up your great work and keep reading 📚
🤘🦇🤘
I love both fantasy and fantasy romance. I love the variety of switching between the two genres and I love them for their own thing. I do like that there is a seperation now.
I like that they are getting shelved differently. I listen to both romance and fantasy books, but when I pick up one, I expect its tropes.
Fourth Wing sent me reeling when I picked up what I thought was Epic Dragon Riding Fantasy and nothing in it lined up with that. I went through hundreds of reviews to figure out how this was a bestselling book when it wasn't lining up with the expectation the back of the book gave me. I certainly would have wanted and expected different things if I had known it was a Romance novel with Fantasy set dressing, and I might not have DNF'd it.
That being said, I still want both elements in both kinds of books, I just want to know where the focus is so I know what I'm getting. I feel this'll help. Especially when marketing Doesn't have to play up something that's not as developed in the book for it to fit into the mold of "fantasy" as the market sees it.
I’ve been getting into fantasy the last year and I’m definitely frustrated with fantasy romance. So I’m definitely guilty of that, but I also think it’s okay to not want that. I’m in my “single girl era” lol. I just want the books I read to free of stuff that’s going to remind me of my singleness right now. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it! It’s great, I used to enjoy it more when I wasn’t more love depressed. I’m sure in the future I will love it again. But right now, no I don’t really want romance in my books. And actually there are caveats to that. I’m more interested in men so I find queer relationships much more enjoyable for me to read rn because I’m not relating that to my own relationships. I also am okay with romance in there if it’s not the whole story (see wheel of time series). But I don’t want to read romantasy rn and it’s frustrating to me that all the “fantasy” books online are ALL romantasy. I love that so many others are enjoying that but I don’t want to RIGHT NOW 😂
you seem to be using fantasy romance and romantasy interchangeably but my criticism would be that romantasy as showcased by the new category in goodreads choice awards is a very particular type of fantasy romance, involving very particular character archetypes, dynamics and tropes. so ig it's great for people who like that type but it projects a very narrow understanding of what fictional romance stories can look like. i love reading love stories and of course i love fantasy - but there's nothing for me in the romantasy category. so i am skeptical about people praising it. great idea on paper but poor execution, in my opinion
I read both because I get different things out of each. When I want a more fun fluffy, usually easier to read book I read romantasy. I also love my epic fantasy and love the world building and magic. I like both for different reasons and don’t think one is superior to another. They just serve different entertainment purposes.
I used to read strictly romance, but I’ve recently switched to fantasy. NOT fantasy romance. Because I do not like smut in my books. I liked the emotions and feelings but not lust. I don’t want to read about that. I found I like fantasy better anyway. So I’m glad I was forced to change genres by lack of smut because now I have a whole huge backlist to read.
I’m working on my sci-fi fantasy manuscript and two of the characters I never thought would get together actually got together. I seriously never would have shipped them. Initially I rejected the notion of alll romance in my book, I wanted it to be fast paced with lots of action. But I think it’s interesting how it just slipped in there. I love FFX. The best FF story ever in my opinion, I’ve played it like 10 times throughout the years. Honestly, that game kind of helped plant the seed of wanting to write a book. I need a story to enthrall me like FFX did when I was in middle school. I’m so happy your channel appeared on my wall, go RUclips algorithm!
this is an amazing Fantasy channel! welcome 😊 Good luck on your story!
Love this Topic! Wonderful discussion Elliot 📚📙🌈📙📚📚📖📖🩷🪻🌺💕🌸🌷🌷🌷🌸💚❤️🌼🩵🩵💙🌹💛💛💛💜💚🪻🩷📖📖📙📚🧡🧡🧡📚📙🌈🌈🌈📙🧡🧡🧡🧡✨📖📖✨🩷🪻🧡📚📚📚🧡🧡🧡🩷🦋📖📖🌷🦋💛💛🩵🩵🩵🩵🩵❤❤❤
I don't like romance in my fantasy because I read the two genres for different reasons. A little bit of romantic relationship-building is fine, but if I want to read fantasy, I don't want romance to be a main plot point. If I wanted romance, I would read romance. But I'm a mood reader to the very core and I don't like spice regardless!
ETA: we prioritize romantic relationships over friendship in our society, so I'm way more excited to see a friendship relationship executed well in a fantasy than a romantic relationship.
You’re so right about people looking down on fantasy romance because predominantly girls enjoy it
I definitely believe that romance fantasy, and really romance in general, is more often catered towards women than not; moreover, I think this is for the same reason more action and adventure stories are catered towards men; they just prefer those kind of stories more often than the opposite sex.
Really good points about how sexism plays into our dismissing of romance, YA, etc.
15:50 if I'm reading a story where the MC is training, fighting and generally levelling up, especially when we've spent more than several chapters with them growing stronger with their friends and mentors, I will get thrown if there's a sudden romance storyline thrown randomly in.
Its not fair to say that we don't like romance, it's just that given the genre and story telling, it's rarely done right/well, and it really does take away from the overall story.
Besides, if I want romance, I'll read romance. That's the whole point of genres, no? So you can decide what elements you want to consume?
So to say someone opposes or belittles romance because it's somewhere it's not necessary, is not quite right
26:00 that is whatsoever of us prefer not to see romance certain places: cause we know they're gonna mess it up. In a perfect world, we'll get the author who can do both well, but unfortunately, we're in this reality
@elliot. What are the specific search pages you mentioned?
I feel like the "I don't like romance" thing is also, apart from the bias you mention, just a consequence of how romance is perceived and written. Speaking of YA, I understand what you mean and agree that it's come very far in terms of public perception--The Hunger Games, for one, was a series that I saw get derided for being a "cliché YA dystopia with a perfect protagonist" but now I've seen people from... everywhere, really, admit that it's a genuinely well-written series.
Really nuanced discussion, I loved this.
For me at least, I'm someone who loves romance stories and often reads romance, but I also say I typically don't like romance in my adult fantasy (ya fantasy is okay because I know I'm always getting romance with that, so I go with that in mind). But I think deep down it's just because with fantasy you don't want the romance to overpower the actual fantasy. Not to mention the romance is often done poorly. As an example, the Fitz thing you mentioned in Royal Assassin. It's honestly my least favorite part of that book, but I don't fault the book for it because the romance doesn't overpower the rest, and those books are so intimately character-focused that I think it makes sense. On the flip side, the love triangle in Words of Radiance is exhausting to me. I don't mind how it was resolved, but while we were going through it? So annoying. Just don't make it unnecessary and overly dramatic and I'm good.
I like that you mentioned manga/anime, because while I haven't finished Fullmetal, I think a good example is Fairy Tail. That manga/anime has a tooon of characters and multiple ships, but the author only writes two couples on page (iirc). And that's fine by me because while my favorite couples didn't even get a kiss on page at all, the author shows so much love between them that it's enough. You don't need detailed romance plotlines to satisfy the people who ship the characters, imo.
Honestly, really good points all around.
A question that came to my mind yesterday when I watch a video by Thoughts on Tomes: what is the difference between fantasy romance and paranormal romance? I don't read these genres, so I literally have no idea. But it seems like ten years ago, paranormal romance was all the rage, now it is fantasy romance. Is it about the world the stories are set in? Honest question. xD
I have always been a thriller/horror reader and as of last year I started branching out into different genres. Of course due to overwhelming popularity online I found myself reading romantacy books (didn’t know it was its own thing at the time). I enjoyed them for the most part but found I wanted more world building and less focus on the romance stuff. I would finish them knowing I like the books (acotar, fourth wing, etc) but was lost as to finding something appealing that didn’t involve all the extra, I than stumbled across The Poppy War and knew that was exactly what I was searching for. All this time I was just searching for fantasy and not romantacy and didn’t even realize it till I got fed up with YA. Which side question, why are so many romance fantasy book with deeply mature situations labeled as YA? Genuinely curious if anyone happens to know.
I met my best friend bc I dressed up as Hermione for spirit week at school and that made her feel comfortable enough to come talk to me 😅 sixteen years later we're still besties
I like romance in books, series and films BUT I don't like how it's done most of the time. I am less interested in the relationship per se, I like the hurt and comfort part, I need pain in relationships BUT nit through r*p*, inc**t or toxic relationships but story related obstacles, character related hesitation, world building. I want it to be part if the story. And no love triangles please 🤣 I want a tragic grown up romance. And most books don't give me that. ://
My thought with romantasy being separated is that romantasy books usually aren't in awards like the Hugos or Nebulas (Hugo controversy aside). Which to me says the audience is fairly different. Not that they don't overlap.
In terms of disliking romance... I've learned that I don't really like romance + another genre. Contemporary romance, I can enjoy! I can also enjoy a romance subplot in SFF but not when it overtakes the rest of the plot. I like worldbuilding and plot and romance tends to be more character focused. It's not my preference. I do want the fantasy and the world and the plot to be the focus.
I want more series like The Others. The slowest burn ever, and on the back burner. The characters are everything and done well. I dont mind romantasy between fantasy books, once in a while....maybe 4 a year. Great video El. Love from Surprise Arizona 🌵
I adore fantasy romance! I love fantasy too, but a romantasy is my favourite sort of book!
I think so many people struggle with their self esteem and may have had a hard time with the romance in their personal life. So when romance in a story is introduced, oftentimes I see it may bring up negative feelings in that person because romance in their personal life has affected them negatively. And then like you mentioned, there are so many stereotypes and stigma around those feelings that people may even feel embarrassed reading it, bc society has treated it negatively for so long. I don't personally have a good relationship with my mother, and so I don't like reading stories with a healthy mother daughter relationship bc it brings up negative feelings, especially jealousy, even disbelief bc I don't know what that actually feels like. So it's something I avoid. I feel like people may treat romance that way, bc it's so often a very prominent thing going on in everyones life. Idk lol. Those are my thoughts. I shouldn't assume, but when people hate on romance in books so much I just kinda assume that it makes them vulnerable and they don't like that 😅 and it may bring up negative feelings for them and that's their way of coping.
Not true at all. I've had a rocky road in my romantic relationships, but I just have never been interested in reading about romance/sex/smut in my books. My recent ex is now my best friend! Not because of my emotions, but because it's never been of interest to me. Don't like romance heavy plotlines, lots of sex, terribly written, but I don't at all mind a story with a sub plot of a romance in it, as long as it's well written! For example, I recently enjoyed the Emily Wilde books which includes a sweet romance that is well written. Two adults who care and communicate and is nice to see unfold 🙂
@@ladyfox6705 yes of course this is not pertaining to everyone, I just think thats one of the reasons why. And I was trying to talk about when people hate it all around now, and not just a subplot. I should've made it more clear that it's not *everyone , but I've had so many conversations with people who personally feel this way to know that many people hate romance in their books for this reason .
I don't care what people want or like to read or even why, I just don't like when people are looked down on for books they read or the authors are negatively reviewed because they choose to include it. Can't make everyone happy
@@kaycamacho.kaylivesgood True, for some this could be an issue, which is kind of a shame but understandable.
I have never been interested in reading Romance heavy books, but don't mind it as a minor sub story in a book as long as it's well written.
Growing up, i noticed that i enjoy fantasy stories with romance in them. Years and years, i have been reading sci-fi & fantasy but always with romance plot in the mix. And i dont know how to explain the genre to people. But now i have a happy place to stay cozy.. romantasy.
Great Video!
When it comes to the fantasy genre. I enjoy my romances as a subplot or even c plot ❤
For me?
Yes I have automatically pushed against romance because it's romance.
But as I've gotten older I've come to understand that for me at least it was a result of the overwhelming representation of people not being able to be happy unless in a relationship. Movies. Books. Tv shows. So many of them represent 'misery if alone' storylines. Why? It drove me nuts. I wanted to see strong, healthy, happy people not pining for romance.
I do enjoy romances now as a part of my menu, not the whole thing.
Completely agree with all your points! 💯 truth.
My question is... why do Fantasy and SciFi get lumped together? Sure there are some books that are genre blends but other than that.. why are books categorized as "SFF"? Lookin' at you Amazon.
They sort of both branched off of fantastic litature
@@stephennootens916 but there is Fantasy that has zero SciFi so should be separated imo.
Agree. They should absolutely be separated. And Horror, too. That's been lumped in with other genres 😞
@@ladyfox6705 yea they do that with Horror sometimes.. usually mis-marketed. btw one of my fave genre blends is Scifi/Horror! can't wait for Ghost Station release by S.A. Barnes.
Poor quality writing should be ridiculed. The readership of fantasy romance IS predominantly female, but that isn't reason in of itself for criticism. It is also true, however, that quite a few books in the fantasy romance genre are not rejected by the readership when they DO have poor quality writing or illogical plots and are instead still bought and read because, as you mention in the video, they offer some emotional portrayal or sub-genre that Women gravitate towards or have a connection to.
The connection is prioritized over the quality or even at the expense of the quality. Why doesn't the predominately female readership of the fantasy romance genre demand BOTH good quality writing AND compelling sub-genres that appeal to women. That would lift the genre's stereotyping out of its ridicule, but instead a large number of the most popular fantasy romance bestsellers offer one or the other. And as much as we don't want to lay blame on "Women" as a collective, there is a reason why this problem is more so prolific in a genre that is heavily weighted toward a female readership.
We have to be honest about that and confront the fact that it isn't "preferences" causing the ridicule when the same stories could be written with better quality and be respected. Some of that ridicule RIGHTLY falls on the shoulders of the genre and its readership.
I think general fantasy seems more mainstream now because readers in general are predominantly women. I’m not sure if this is backed up by statistics or if it’s just anecdotal though. I also don’t know if this is new or if it’s always been that way
I think you’re right about the internalized misogyny. I never change my reading habits because of it but I don’t always freely share its genre and I’ll try to spin it more towards the fantasy aspects when I tell someone about it. Or even if I’m not talking about the book I’ll feel almost ashamed or embarrassed when I pick it up.
What is the couple from FullMetal Alchemist? It's been a while and I cannot remember who she's talking about
To be honest, I really like romance in my books. Love Triangles are a deal breaker for me, though.
I would appreciate proper marketing... I know this isn't "Fantasy" but one example is Vampires of El Norte.. that is NOT Horror.. it's Western Historical Romance with slight horror elements.. not as the title would suggest. I don't read Romance at all and would prefer zero Romance in all the other genres I read but I'm ok with some love stories being woven in if they are zero spice/steam/smut.. tangent incoming..
examples: The Stationary Shop by Marjan Kamali (set in Iran in the 50s) and As Long as the Lemon Trees Grow by Zoulfa Katouh (set in Syria in 2011+).. both Historical Fiction and very important stories that I think more people should read.. especially Lemon Trees.. I just read that last month and omg the writing! Absolutely stunning. Can't believe it's a debut and really hope she writes more books!
I do not like romantasy so I’m glad it has its own category. So I know what to avoid 😂
13:43 man, this hits hard. I first noticed it with twilight. I loved the books but I was pretty shy/quiet so I didn’t really talk about it or make it known that I was a fan. And then when the counter culture response to twilight’s fame came in and hit hard (a few years after i initially read the book), making it something shameful and embarrassing to like, I absolutely BURIED my personal feelings and refused to really engage in conversations about it because I didn’t want to be ridiculed. Now that I’m older and understand the root of that response better, I’m so much more outspoken about stuff like this. Anyway, I’ve really loved your journey the last year or so in exploring romantasy because, for a long time, my RUclips feed was mostly women fantasy booktubers and they were all adamant that they “didn’t care” for romance and I felt every time that it was just a way to appeal to a broader audience and be taken seriously since they didn’t enjoy all that fluffy stuff.
Or maybe those female booktubers really don't care about romantasy and it's not just that they want to appeal to a broader audience? I mean, it's possible.
We don't all have the same tastes, I personally don't like romantasy so I wouldn't be surprised if other women didn't like it either.
@@KolorfulDreamsArtKda that’s a fair point so let me be clear: I don’t have a problem with them not liking romance as a genre, plot line, subplot or whatever. My problem is these women were extremely VOCAL in 90% of videos they did about how much they didn’t like it. So it felt like they were crapping on the genre or dragging it because that type of mindset typically appeals to men and would make men more likely to subscribe even though the RUclipsr was a woman. The amount they spoke about it seemed unnatural and forced, particularly since they didn’t have any critiques to expound on why they felt that way.
Who's the author she's referencing regarding the "stained glass" analogy?
Im like 99% sure it’s Brando Sando lol
yes, who's that? @ me too :D
Yeah, Brando Sando mentions it I believe in his BYU lectures.
Fantasy has come a long way. I am just getting into it and have come to discover that there are different types of fantasy genres. Fantasy like any other genre the author's writing style makes a big difference. Some author's move the book along at a pace that I like and some authors move at a pace that I don't like (I don't care for a very slow pace). I am good with some romance in my fantasy. Fantasy Romance got me to try fantasy. Right now it is my favorite fantasy genre. If you have mot done one a video for beginner fantasy would be good. Like I don't think that I am at the Brandon Sanderson fantasy level yet, but would love recommendations for fantasy books that are easy to follow. I am trying to work my way up to Brandon Sanderson level.
Sanderson is respected as an author but I genuinely think his writing is as accessible as any YA Fantasy Romance book, I don't think you need to work your way up to them, just read them if they interest you.
If you want something that is less overtly Political/Military fantasy Trudi Canavan is great, The Magicians Apprentice and Thief's Magic are great "high fantasy" entry books imo. They are pretty much all about the characters though and much much easier to follow if you actually read them than when hearing about them.
@@Copernican thanks. I will check him out. I have heard that Sanderson does a lot of world building and that is what I have to work upto as the fantasy books that I have b read so far the world building is interwoven throughout the story so everything flows together.
I'm looking for a strong story, I don't care if it's YA, Romantasy, Spicy, Epic Fantasy, Cozy...give me a good story and I'm all in. I don't mind romance in fantasy books, characters have romantic encounters, it's normal. I don't mind spice in fantasy books, people have physical interactions, it's normal. But...if it pulls me out of the story, is poorly written in the story, or the story is just not good...then that will create a sense of 'all romantasy/spice/ books are bad', which they aren't. Give me a good story and I'm here for it all...I just finished the Hades & Persephone retelling by Scarlett St. Clair...it was a really cool story, the spice was a bit heavy handed at times but I just skipped some of it...the series was good. (Just don't have two characters jumping each other every other page, that pulls me out of the story) 📚😎
I like romance in fantasy books if it’s a subplot or just adds some flavor… I don’t need these insane sex scenes.
I agree, fully. I like what I like.
I had to quit all the YA book boxes because they were all fantasy romance month after month after month. God forbid we have a fantasy book for that demographic that doesn't have a romance plot or huge subplot. Ugh.
Question, does anyone have any book recs for fantasy horror?
13:45 For my part I don't care about the politics. I've never heard anybody have a particular dislike of that. I can appreciate the brilliance of political maneouvres, the backstabbing, the plans within plans, but they're exasperating to me. I had to give up on Dune pretty early due to that. Whereas I love a well-done romance.
i was literally having this conversation with my partner yesterday, it seems to me that a plethora of booktubers/tokers always feel the need to disavow the spicy/ romance in romantasy. it feels misogynistic and (im not like the other girls-ish) and like an attempt to convey a high brow approach to reading. it also feels like super sex negative when ppl go out of their way to distinguish themselves from smut enjoyers because smut is "cringe" (i get that a a lot of the time it is) but its about the larger sentiment. idk. what do y'all think?