Can you explain how and when you file tax for investments on etoro when you copy various portfolios. Should you just use the etoro end of year profit/loss amalgamated account statement as the single determining figure when filing tax returns as these copy traders will have opened and closed positions throughout the year?
Hey Mark - Sorry, somehow didn't get a notification for this one. So I actually haven't used the eToro copy trading function (other than for demonstration purposes) so I haven't had to deal with the tax side of it. However, I would assume that it's unlikely to simply just be 'one figure' equation at year end, especially if the traders you're copying are opening/closing numerous trades throughout the year - as you alluded to. My guess would that you'd need to look at the individual trades and calculate your own tax liability. That being said, perhaps that's a function that eToro offer? Might be worth dropping eToro a message about that one. Have you had any luck figuring it out since you commented? Would be curious to hear. Cheers - Ste
@@TheLearningsReport ...thanks for your response. I'm new to this obviously and haven't tried to do this before. Etoro were not particularly helpful just saying you'd have to engage a tax advisor. Their statements list all your investments from each trader running up to 60 pages, the one page statement simply lists profit or loss. I contacted revenue who suggested the one page statement is enough if earnings are under 5k but more complicated beyond that. I'm still confused as of you are copying say five or six traders then positions open and close throughout the year past cut off points in end of Oct aswell as Dec. I plan to submit in the new year covering the year gone paying whatever liability and take it from there. I get the feeling this is both relatively new to revenue and that they are I'll equipped to answer questions such as copy trading on platforms like this...
@@markhyland4029 Hmm ok. Strange response from revenue - not sure why they mention the €5,000 figure, as I feel that should only be applicable when it comes to declaring 'income' and unless your trading is classed as income from a tax standpoint (unlikely, unless it's your main source of income) then my understanding is that you're still liable to CGT and I don't know what they're talking about with the €5,000 figure 🤷♂️ In terms of the statement, and the traders you're copying, I think you need to look at it as if it's just you making all those trades autonomously. From a tax standpoint, it doesn't matter if you're 'copying' people or making those trading decisions yourself - the taxman just views it as 'these are the trades Mark has made during the year'. The 'copy' trading aspect shouldn't make any difference when it comes to your taxes. It also might be necessary for you to look through your statement manually - as you'll need to figure out which trades you made gains on, which you made losses on, and of those losses, which ones are 'allowable' from an IRISH tax standpoint to offset against any gains (emphasis on Irish here and Irish tax rules - as I doubt eToro would facilitate country specific tax calculations, but cool if they do). I'm also curious why you flag the end of October in your comment - you know end of October is just the tax cut off date for INCOME tax returns, not Capital Gains tax declarations right? You will just need to pay your CGT by Dec 15th (for trades made between Jan 1st and Nov 30th) and then by Jan 31st (for trades made between Dec 1 & Dec 31st). So if you pay that tax in the new year (2022), you'll technically be paying late for any trades that you made between Jan 1 and Dec 1 of 2021.
@@TheLearningsReport ...thanks for the in-depth response...I need to decide whether to try to file myself or to use tax agent as a PAYE I've not had to familiarise myself with these elements before.
Within 2 minutes I finally understood what I need to do to file a CGT return after 30mins previously of being confused if I also needed to file a Form 12 (which I know now I don't) - thanks!
Deadly video guys thank you, really appreciate the high quality of both the recording and the tax information! Revenue should be paying you something for all of this information haha
Really helpful and clear thanks! The one point that it doesn't address are transaction costs and expenses which I think are deductible and would reduce people's tax liability further!
Hey Jaygud, Thanks for watching! Yeah, it's a good call out. Usually I (Cian) consider the amount that arrives into my bank account as the amount received or sale price (after the fees have been deducted). We'll note it for future videos - anything to reduce that CGT liability for our viewers! 😎 - Cian
Hi Jaygud - Ste here and just to add to Cian's point. Costs directly associated with the acquisition of your asset can be added to your cost basis from a tax standpoint. So for example, a trading fee of €1 would be added to a purchase of €100, meaning your cost basis would be €101 for tax purposes (thus reducing your tax liability marginally). Note: not all fees are deductible, so you'll need to do your own due diligence to confirm what is and what isn't allowed!
Thanks so much for watching, Shiva. Completely agree, it may not be the most glamorous part of investing but important to understand as part of your strategy. More to come! - Cian
great video. I was delaying filing my CGT return because I didn't know how to do it. this video was essential for me to understand it. I just would suggest you mention what we should do with the return. I sent it via ROS for example. thanks a lot!!
Hey Macnet! Glad we could help you with filing your CGT return - it's done now, you can relax! Ste mentions that you can send it via post or via My Enquiries at around 3:40 in the video. Glad you figured it out and thanks for watching - see you in the next one! :) - Cian
Thanks great video, quick question, will revenue be asking for receipts of the purchase and sale of the stocks? I want fill this for future sale of RSU
Hi guys, you have done a good job here but the example seems rather straight forward. For example, you have only taken in to consideration 2 trades in a year, say someone takes multiple small trades a day, the list soon gets very exhaustive. Next, where would you put all the fees (Deposit fee using debit card, transaction fee, forex fee, stamp duty, french stamp duty, finraa fee etc), I suppose all of them can be coupled with the losses since they can be counted according to revenue. Another one would be, what if one makes a profit till 30 th Nov but a loss in December because you have already paid the money before 15th Dec for gains in the period of 1st Jan-30th Nov. There are a lot of such loopholes that can arise very easily.
Hey, I’m just wondering if you got an answer to this? I have hundreds of trades from the year because of copy trading and added up the figure is crazy. What did you do in this instance?
@@clomcdHey, sadly I did not. The content on the channel is broad but not deep. What seems to be the issue you are running in, I have figured out a few answers through my interactions with the Revenue.
@@clomcdHi, sadly I did not. I have gotten some of the answers through my interactions with the Revenue folks. What seems to be the issue you are facing. ?
Extremely useful video. Just to clarify, there is NO way to declare capital gains online? Due to the fact the the online Form 12 doesn't contain a CGT section, and additionally there is no online version of the CG1?
Hi, just a question. Do you still have to file the entire return if you did not make more than 1270? How exactly do you do that and what changes? For example if I made 200 euro on one sale of stocks and 200 euro on another sale. 400 euro total gain. Would I fill out the form the same way and just leave chargeable gains blank?
Thanks for the suggestion! Basically the process is the same - you just would leave blank any section that asks for 'gains' and then put in your losses as the appropriate section. But something for us to mull over nonetheless, cheers 👍
Hey guys, amazing video! Really appreciate the hard work and making it so concise. I have 2 questions: 1. The shares I sold are in USD. How do I exchange this to Euros to be able to calculate what's owed? 2. What are the penalties if the payment wasn't made last year? (Asking for a friend who didn't know there was a difference between filing and paying ;)) Thank you! :)
I believe you simply convert the dollar value of the shares sold into euros using the exchange rate at the time you sold them. Most stock trading platforms will allow you to export an excel file of all your transaction details, including the exchange rate at the time.
Hey Annabel - and we appreciate the great feedback on the video, thank you! 1. Our understanding is the same as James' below - you would take the historical exchange rate for USD to EUR at the time you made the sale, and calculate accordingly. 2. Ah yes, we all have that friend...So 'technically' there is a late filing surcharge of 5 per cent of your liability if you file within two months of the deadline up to a maximum penalty of €12,695. A late filing surcharge of 10 per cent of your tax liability if you file two months after the deadline up to a maximum penalty of €63,485. But in short, I feel it would be harsh for revenue to penalise you if you show you genuinely didn't know and that you're actively trying to pay it. You could always drop them a message and explain as much! Of course, no guarantees (you might get someone on a bad day), but I think thats what I'd probably do. Hope that helps!
THANK YOU 🙏 YOU ARE LEGENDS!!! I badly needed my hand held through out the whole process of filling out this form (for next year) looking forward to the form 12 video so I can pay even more tax on my staking rewards!!
Love to hear this feedback, nice one Rob. So form 12 is actually already live! In case you missed it, I've linked below. Form 12 ruclips.net/video/x4QVvH8DjM4/видео.html We feel your pain re: staking and the taxes 😅
going through my CG1 for 2022 - the first part at 10:34 is absolutely painful and a bit confusing, it means I have to go back and note every single time I made a sale *of anything* all 2022, these have to be totalled? Maybe I will have this completed by the end of the year 😂
Thank you so much for the great explanation and guides on this, really appreciate this. It is step by step and I really wish Revenue hires you to make these videos as an official guides. I have a question on chargeable gain with this example : 4000 euros (shared bought with 1000 euros and sold for 5000 thus 4000 euro profit which is chargeable gain) This could be a very silly question and if the video covered this, please let me know where I missed. When we fill CG1 form, should we tell revenue how much we paid when we bought the shares? In this example, 1000 euros. How can revenue check if I calculate chargeable gain correctly or not? Do I have to submit the doc when I acquired shares (the value at the time of acquired) to Revenue? Thank you.
Great vid much appreciated. Sorry just 2 questions: 1)How is the cg1 form submitted? Is it just attached through my enquiries? 2) Can you file a cg1 online the same way you file a form 11?
Hey Tadhg, Thanks for watching and for the questions. You can file it by post or online although online is far easier. Are you a chargeable individual i.e. have to fill out the form 11? There is a Capital Gains section in the Form 11 that you can fill out and submit that way. More in the video below: ruclips.net/video/15fgO8-8o6g/видео.html If you're not a chargeable individual, you can fill out the CG1 form and attach it as a message on MyEnquiries. Just make sure to ask for receipt of the form from Revenue. - Cian
Thanks for another great and very helpful video. One question - if I bought a shares in specific year but I didn't sell any (I like to keep them as an investment) do I need to complete CG1 form? Should I then put 0 euro for gain and 0 euro for loss as I didn't sell anything? Thanks
Hi @TheLearningsReport, if I have sold my stock and my net profit is less than €1270 (e.g, €500), do we still have to file the CG1 form? I want to do this for 2021. Also, THANK YOU for these videos!!
Great videos! Any chance you could explain how to calculate proffit /loss after buying stock/crypto ,then partially selling some, then buying more , and partially seling again etc ... it seems very confusing to get average buy price etc .Cant find much info on youtube
Hey John, cheers for the feedback. In short, you'll probably want to use some sort of crypto tax software as you may have quite the headache otherwise (Koinly, Coinpanda, Cointracker, etc.)! The more trades you've made, the trickier it becomes. 'Cost basis' is essentially what you're trying to figure out. In Ireland we use the FIFO rule to calculate capital gains. I've linked two web pages below that should give you some better insight on the matter (albeit NOT from an Irish tax standpoint, so just keep this in mind as you're reading through - but they do give a good explanation on cost basis calculation) Investopedia (scroll down to the 'calculating cost basis' example) www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/060313/what-determines-your-cost-basis.asp ZenLedger (a tax software provider - I have no idea what their service is like, I just thought their explanation was worth sharing as it saves me typing out my own!) FIFO - Revenue.ie (They use 'stocks' as the example, but just switch 'crypto' in place of stock) www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/selling-or-disposing-of-shares.aspx In terms of doing a video on it, I think that's a great idea. Will just need to decide which crypto tax software option we want to use ourselves! Koinly is the only one I've briefly looked at personally. - Ste
Hi guys thanks a lot for the video, I have one question please. How do i enter just a loss on form 11. On your example if there were nothing in 2020, how do i deal with the 2019 loss? thank again
Great job guys! Super helpful video! One quick follow up question - so we file the gain/loss for Jan - November before October 31st, what’s the process on reporting gain/loss for November? I can’t really know in October what exact gain/loss of future sell will be 🤷♂️Thanks!
Hi Michael, Cheers for watching! So, you only need to file the FOLLOWING year. So you should know what your gain is by then. So, if you made a gain in November 2021, you would only need to file by 31 October 2022. For paying, you only need to pay after the gain also. So if the gain was made between 1 Jan and 30 Nov, you pay by Dec 15th. If the gain was in Dec, you pay by Jan 31st the following year. Hope this helps - any questions let us know. - Cian
Thank you very much for the video. I didn't get any profile on Profit Sharing Scheme. So i need to file CG1 form for loss. Can you please point out numbers related to losses that needs to be filled in the form? e.g. point 8, etc..
Great video.if you forget to file as you didnt owe any cgt on the sale what is the surcharge based on ? So 5 % or 10% of what? If you are late what should you do ?
Sorry for the late reply, Sharon - big summer off! The amount would be charged on whatever your initial taxable gain was. However, it might be worth emailing revenue, explaining the situation and saying you'd like to pay the amount you owe. They might be lenient and just say its ok as long as you just pay what you owe (or they could say you need to pay the interest - it's a flip of a coin!). If its not a crazy amount of money that you owe, I'm sure they'd be open to discusssion :)
very helpful 🎉🎉 but I have 1 question, whitch section I must declare government bond? could you make me an example if you make a capital gain with government bond. thanks in advance
Great video. Generally, do Revenue just take it that the figures and calculations you give are correct? Does anyone double check the figures? Do you have to show your workings out for the final figures? Do you have to give them copies of the paperwork for the shares when you bought and sold them or do they just accept the figures you give them? What happens if you genuinely make a mistake in the figures you send them.
Cheers. Unless you're audited, yes - no need to show your workings. In terms of making a mistake, I think the general idea is that it's somewhat subjective from Revenues standpoint - although the responsibility definitely lies with the filer. I believe they can be flexible, but its their call on where the line is drawn in the sand as of course people try to screw the system!
Your broker should automatically add those to your cost basis. So if you paid $100 for a stock, and a $1 trading fee, your cost basis should be $101 and thats what your taxed on (thereby reducing your tax liability marginally). Double check your trade history to see if the fee was added to your purchase amount!). So there ins't a specific section to declare fees, it should all just be under the one calculation. - Ste
Thanks for video very informative, I was wondering for declaring a small amount of Capital gains from stocks, can you declare this on your Form 12 online and if so which section would you do this in?
Great video thank you for sharing it. What about the fees paid to the broker on the purchase and sale of the shares? I believe that can be deducted from the CTG due, right? Another question is, how to proceed on the form with the 5% or 10% extra it filing CTG from 2019 for exemple using the same amounts you used on your exemple? Thank you :)
Hi Richard, Thanks for watching! 1. There are certain allowable expenses that you can deduct for the CGT calculation. Quoting Revenue, these can include: "costs (for example, fees paid by you to a solicitor or auctioneer) when you acquired and disposed of the asset" More info here: www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/how-to-calculate-cgt.aspx#:~:text=They%20are%20costs%20that%20you,and%20disposed%20of%20the%20asset. 2. The late filling surcharge is calculated as a percentage of the tax due. In our example, we wouldn't have to pay anything for a late filling in 2019 as we made a loss and then would pay €57 (570*10%) for 2020 for filing late. More info here: www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/when-and-how-do-you-pay-and-file-cgt.aspx&ved=2ahUKEwiFmoPEzIP2AhVJi1wKHX_OCcsQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Cwb_I6UJWpZNcc99_Cc0g - Cian
I don’t think it matters. Revenue only needs to know the profit/loss and any tax owed. You can keep your own records for individual sales, stocks, fx, commodities
Thank you so much for this video! Can you please let me know if there is a quicker way to submit the CG1 form online (via the myrevenue webiste) or if sending it by post is the only way? Thanks! And apologies if you have covered this in the video and I missed it. My second question is, what exchange rate should we use to convert shares in US Dollars to Euro? Tried googling and different websites give different exchange rates at a particular date. So does Revenue provide an exchange rate to use for when we receive the shares? (We have the share prices in USD but just not sure where to source the exchange rate info from, to convert it to Euro). Please reply :)
I am sorry they didn't answer you, because now I have the same questions. Did you figure this out, and send your CG1 form online? I have a problem with section 1. a)...I did way more than 2 sales this year, but in my brokers statements they are all in Dollars. So I have to add all up and convert result to Euro, by current exchange rate, or something else?
Hey Simon, thanks for watching. In short, it's not clear re: gas fees etc. For trading fees on stock transactions, these can be added to your cost basis in order to reduce your overall tax liability - so a $100 stock purchase with a $1 trading fee would mean a $101 cost basis for the stock. For gas fees, I would say you could make a decent case to revenue to at least deduct some of them, but as there isn't specific guidance on it - it's still a pretty grey area. No harm in trying, but I'd err on the side of caution in case they turn around and say no! Linking an article below from Token Tax that might offer some insights. tokentax.co/blog/are-ethereum-gas-fees-tax-deductible/ - Ste
Great video well done. Am looking forward to the one dealing with dividend returns. I use Degiro which forwards on 15% of tax due to Revenue then I go into MyAccount and file the remaining 5% which comes off my tax free allowance the next time I get paid. Can you go over everything the individual has to do in order to be compliant with Revenue please? Thanks again.
Thanks a million for watching! That's interesting that Degiro do that - I (Cian) also use Degiro but I'm not sure how other brokers deal with dividends from a tax perspective. Yes, we will be going through Form 11 and Form 12 which deal with dividend income in the coming weeks so stay tuned! I have also added a dividend specific video to the list. 👍 - Cian
How to offset any charges, say someone started only in 2023, with profit of EUR 1000 with the broker cost of EUR 90. How is that taken into calculation?
Hey Dean, The easiest way to send would be by attaching an e-copy to a message on MyEnquiries on Revenue.ie If you need to file by post, you can send it to your local Revenue Office which you can find here: www.gov.ie/en/service/find-your-local-revenue-office/ - Cian
@@TheLearningsReport Appreciate the reply! do you have any advise if I don't know my 'Aggregate Consideration'? Could my gain for the year go in that section?
@@deanguiney9658 In short, you basically need to find out what that number is - can you export your trade history from your broker? That will be able to give you the number pretty quickly. But no, your gain wouldn't be placed in aggregate consideration.
Hey sorry for the late reply on this, busy few days! As far as we're aware, you can't offset charitable donations against profits from your investments specifically. It's more from an income side of things that I think donations come into play. But to be honest, it's something we know little about so will need to do a bit more digging! Great question and thanks for flagging it. Let us know if you find any more info on it. - Ste
If I have a loss for this year, do I just put in my consideration in 1, gains in 7, losses in 8, net losses in 18 and then everything else including the self assessment will just be 0? I won't need to split up losses between 19 and 20 depending on if they happened before or after the end of January?
Hi Johnny, to clarify - the loss you're referring to, it occurred 'last year' but you're filing it this year, right? If the loss occurred this year, then you wouldn't need to file it until next year. But yes, your calculations otherwise sound correct to me! If it's a loss, then you shouldn't need to do Section 19 & 20 - Ste
Hi! How do you declare the sale of an inherited house? how do you calculate/estimate the capital gain/loss of an inherited house (house not in IE, but based in EU) and where should the information be filled on the form for this case? thanks.
Hey Elise, Thanks for watching the video! Before I start, I want to caveat that I am not a tax adviser and this is not tax advice. For an inherited house, you have to use the market value of the property on the date of the death. How this market value is calculated can be based on a few different methods and this has been topical recently with the LPT changes for properties in Ireland. Given your property is based outside of Ireland, it might be worth raising an enquiry with Revenue to clarify. I have linked a section on Revenue below which is being used for valuing property for LPT in Ireland which may be a helpful guide (albeit different to your situation. Also, for inheritances you may be liable to Capital Acquisitions Tax, just to be aware. I also want to link Revenue's guide on CGT on foreign property. You will owe Irish CGT if you are resident or ordinarily resident in Ireland, however, depending on the country the property is located in, you may owe CGT there too. There are certain reliefs in countries where Ireland has a double taxation agreement. In terms of where to put it on the form, depending on the property type, you can enter it into the Residential Premises or Commercial Premises sections. More information: - www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/valuing-your-property/sources-for-valuing-your-property.aspx - www.revenue.ie/en/property/foreign-property/cgt-when-disposing-of-a-foreign-property.aspx - www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/gift-and-inheritance-tax-cat/index.aspx Hope this helps! - Cian
@@elisejarry-donovan7055, just confirming you saw the response Cian left the other day? Or do you have an additional follow-up that we've missed? Cheers - Ste
Thanks for this useful video. One thing is unclear to me... Does point 8 ("Losses in the year before S. 604A relief") include also the losses which can not be offset from gains such as shares bought and sold within a four-week period? And, is it correct that in point 11 ("Chargeable Gain(s) net of allowable current year losses") I can substract only losses which can be offset from gains?
Hey Jarek - great question. So our understanding is that Point 8 is for allowable losses only, but for safety sake, I'd definitely advise running that by revenue/tax professional to be certain! For point 11, again our understanding is that yes the salient point is 'allowable' i.e you're only deducting losses that are available to offset so if the losses can't be offset against your gains, then there's no need to add them to the form as they're somewhat irrelevant. Of course, if in doubt, always better to double check with revenue directly as we're not tax professionals (etc etc) 😊
Great video lads, I just have one question, if I have profits made on crypto but havent transferred them to by bank acc, do I still have to declare them?
Hey Sam, Good question - so as long as you sold the crypto or exchanged it and made a gain greater than €1,270, you will have to pay CGT regardless of where the money is or is transferred to. If it's below €1,270, you should still file even if it's a loss. Annoying but currently how the tax system works! - Cian
Love your videos. Very helpful. Was wondering if you could address NFTs and tax implications. I see the transaction as swapping one token for another but in Koinly it shows as a withdrawal.
Hey Sinead, glad you're enjoying and thanks for the question. Like with most crypto taxes, it's not massively clear especially in Ireland. Our understanding is that if you 'create' an NFT, and sell it, the proceedings are liable for income tax. If you simply buy and sell NFTs, that should fall under CGT rules (similar to tangible pieces of art/paintings). As with swapping regular crypto tokens (e.g. ETH for BTC), swapping is considered a taxable event just as a sale would be. So shouldn't matter whether you swap an NFT for another, that's still viewed as a taxable event regardless of whether you withdraw the sale proceedings from your account, etc. (that may have already been clear to you, but just to be safe). Koinly at the end of the day is just a tax facilitator, so regardless of the info their platform is showing you, it's still the individuals responsibility in Ireland, so I'd err on the side of caution either way! Might be worth pinging revenue the same question and see what they come back to you with. Hope this helps! - Ste
Do I need to pay CGT if I have sold the shares on the app but I still haven't withdrawn it into my bank account? Also, What if I choose to reinvest the profit I made into other stocks? How does the tax for that work?
Hey, Q1 - Yes, if you sell, the taxable event has occurred (regardless of where you keep the funds) Q2 - If you sell a stock for €1000 profit, you owe 33% tax on that €1000. That would be €333. But of course, tax isn't due to be paid the moment you sell the stock, it's due by the dates outlined in the video. So technically, although you have an upcoming tax bill €333, you still have €1000 in your pocket. You can reinvest that amount, but then you will need to account for: Paying the €333 tax bill due on the initial €1000 profit at some stage in the future The €1000 profit you reinvest, is simply viewed as a new €1000. So if you sell again, then you then will be liable for another €333 euro. The idea is that when you sell for a profit, you take out some of your gain and save it for taxes. The rest you can then do what you want with (reinvest, buy stuff, go to Vegas, etc.) - Ste
@@TheLearningsReport Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. Makes sense now. So basically for every time I sell my shares and make a profit I need to keep records of every profit I made so I can pay the 33% CGT on them during the tax filing time. Also another question I had is lets say i sell my stocks but have made no profit yet. How does the tax work in those cases? So let's say I sold my shares for 'A' at a loss of 100 euros. I believe that gets added to the CGT Exemption as well but how do I go about doing that? And also if I made only a negative sale do I still need to make any sort of payment?
@@kingmsm4740 Sorry, your follow up got flagged as spam for some reason and didn't appear until we approved it! Yes, good record keeping is key (but your broker app should also keep a full transaction history, so you can also export that when you need it) Yes you can offset some of your losses against future gains. Have you watched our video on Capital Gains Tax in Ireland? That gives a full run through of how to offset your losses, and when you can do it. - Ste
In online non-PAYE section, do I mention total dividends before the 15% US domicile tax deduction? Or The amount I received after that automatic deduction? Or is it just the amount that is due i.e. 5% (as 20% IT - 15% already deducted) ?
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this PR. Great question. To the best of our knowledge, you pay the *full* amount based on what's owed (i.e. the gross amount ignoring DWT) and then you apply for a tax refund/credit after. That being said we're not 100% certain on this so we'd suggest dropping this question to Revenue through MyEnquiries to double check. I (Ste) own very few dividend paying stocks so I actually haven't had to deal with this issue just yet! Would love to hear what revenue say back to you once you get a response though 👍
@@TheLearningsReport Hey! Would love to know if you guys have some more info on US dividends and Form-12 filing for it. I contacted Revenue because they charged me 20% tax on top of 15% US domicile tax. And their exact response: "Yes, you are liable to tax of 20% on the dividend after deduction of US tax." This is quite confusing as this is not as per the information they have on their own website. Or do I need to apply for tax credits? For e.g. with $100, I thought US taxed me $15 and Revenue would take further $5 for total of $20. This leaves me with $80. But as per Revenue, they charged me 20% after 15% i.e. 15%($100)+20%($85)=$32. This leaves $68. That's a difference of additional 12%!
@@pranjal7293 Hi Pranjal. Generally speaking, I'd listen to revenue's responses over ours 😅 But that being said, everyone can make mistakes, so always worth double checking if you have doubts. In this case though, I think they're correct but one bit still confuses me. Let me explain: Your gross amount of US dividends are taxed as income tax in Ireland, so this will be at your marginal rate of income tax (either 20% or 40%). The 15% that is deducted at source (i.e. before you even get the dividend) is what the US government take from the dividend. If Ireland didn't have a double taxation treaty with the US, you would actually be paying 30% to the US government, and the remainder in Ireland. As 15% is already deducted, our understanding is that you are liable to pay the balance here in Ireland (which will be either 5% if you're on the 20% lower rate of income tax, or 25% if you're in the higher band of 40%) + USC & PRSI. Technically, you could be paying up to 52% tax on dividend payments once you factor in your marginal income tax rate and the USC & PRSI. What confuses me, is that in this situation, they're saying it's 20% - whereas I would've thought it would be 25% (if you're in the higher income bracket). Definitely worth asking them for more info if you're unsure.
thank you so much for this video, it really helped me a lot! I have a question: if I am in a joint assessment (with my spouse) is my understanding correct that we need to complete just one CG1 form and in section 25 (self assessment - capital gains tax) we provide the total of CGT tax that we paid together for our gains? or do we need to complete 2 CG1 forms separately for each of us?
thanks for this video. I have a question about the form to fill out for next year. In 2021 I generated capital gains from crypto trade and I have no other earnings. If I got it right I will just have to fill in the CG1 form. It's correct? Thank you
Thanks for watching. Lucas! Are you a PAYE worker? If you have less than €5,000 in non-PAYE earnings, you can file a CG1 form for your crypto Capital Gains. Then for the non-PAYE income (if you have any) you can file a form 12. If you have more than €5,000 in non-PAYE or are self employed, you can file a form 11 which has a Capital Gains section. - Cian
Thanks very much for taking the time to put this together. Are you able to account for costs (fx charges/transaction charges) into the form - perhaps as losses in point 8?
Hey Muireadach - you're welcome and thanks for the comment. So our understanding is that for direct transaction costs (e.g. trade commission), you would include these costs in your cost basis for the purchase. So a $100 stock with a $1 commission would be $101 from a tax standpoint (thereby reducing your overall tax liability, marginally). When it comes to fx charges, I don't think these can be included (but I could be wrong). My understanding is that you exchanging your EUR for USD is simply just that, you exchanging EUR for USD. What you do with the USD thereafter, is entirely up to you - but in this scenario you've just decided to buy a stock! So although the fx trade is facilitated by your broker as part of the transaction, I don't think its seen as being 'directly part of the transaction' from a tax standpoint. As I said, not 100% sure on this so probably worth double checking if you have doubts! - Ste
its very helpful thanks for the video. quick question if you can , would the 33% tax apply for US stock as well ? i was reading something in regards 40% taxes, not sure hows that relevant
Sorry for the late response - big summer off! I think they're likely the same unless you want the return address to be under a different name/address than your own?
Great video, in regards to carrying losses forward, if I have a 3000 gain for example in the current tax year and a 3000 loss in the year previous to carry forward to use against the gain, do I have the right to claim the 1270 exemption or will the 3000 in losses carried forward be used without the exemption ?
Hi lads, really appreciate the video. Very clear and concise! I do have a question about the Form though.... if my chargeable gains for the year is 1250, and losses in the year are 200, how much can I claim in the personal exemption? Am I claiming the full 1250? I would assume this is the case if I wish to carry the 200 loss into 2021?
Hey Peter - thanks for the comment and question. Tax rules indicate that you need to deduct your losses BEFORE using your exemption, unfortunately. So: 1,250 (gains) - 200 (loss) = 1050 (chargeable gain) - 1270 exemption = €0 tax liability Hope that clears things up! - Ste
Hi guys, thanks for the video. I've received cashed shares last year from my employer. Registered for CGT on MyAccount and made the appropriate payment on time last year. I now need to file before 31st October. Do I need to complete a CG1 and form 12? PAYE employee and income from shares was over 5k. Any help appreciated.
Hey, thanks for the great vid. Really helped me out. Would you also know which asset category on Revenue site Bitcoin and crypto would fall under? Shares/securities - quoted, shares/securities-unquoted, other assets. I don't think the other categories would be possible, so I havnt included them here. Thanks for the help
Hey Jimmy, Glad you found the video helpful! So, I think you could argue for any of those but my best guess would be Shares/Securities Quoted as we included in the video. I submitted an enquiry there to Revenue to double check and will let you know when I hear. Better to submit something before the deadline, regardless. If it's in the wrong category then you can easily explain to Revenue and it won't change your overall liability! - Cian
Hey Dave - I'm afraid I don't. Is this in relation to forex trading? Not really my circle of competence so I honestly couldn't even suggest where you could start. I checked my usual suspects (Finviz, Stockrow, Interactive Brokers TWS) and nothing jumping out at me, but I could have easily missed it. Sorry we can't be of more use! - Ste
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Hopefully this makes things a little easier when it comes to tax season! Any questions on the CG1 form, hit us up below 👍
Can you explain how and when you file tax for investments on etoro when you copy various portfolios. Should you just use the etoro end of year profit/loss amalgamated account statement as the single determining figure when filing tax returns as these copy traders will have opened and closed positions throughout the year?
Hey Mark - Sorry, somehow didn't get a notification for this one.
So I actually haven't used the eToro copy trading function (other than for demonstration purposes) so I haven't had to deal with the tax side of it. However, I would assume that it's unlikely to simply just be 'one figure' equation at year end, especially if the traders you're copying are opening/closing numerous trades throughout the year - as you alluded to. My guess would that you'd need to look at the individual trades and calculate your own tax liability. That being said, perhaps that's a function that eToro offer?
Might be worth dropping eToro a message about that one. Have you had any luck figuring it out since you commented? Would be curious to hear.
Cheers
- Ste
@@TheLearningsReport ...thanks for your response. I'm new to this obviously and haven't tried to do this before. Etoro were not particularly helpful just saying you'd have to engage a tax advisor. Their statements list all your investments from each trader running up to 60 pages, the one page statement simply lists profit or loss. I contacted revenue who suggested the one page statement is enough if earnings are under 5k but more complicated beyond that. I'm still confused as of you are copying say five or six traders then positions open and close throughout the year past cut off points in end of Oct aswell as Dec. I plan to submit in the new year covering the year gone paying whatever liability and take it from there. I get the feeling this is both relatively new to revenue and that they are I'll equipped to answer questions such as copy trading on platforms like this...
@@markhyland4029 Hmm ok. Strange response from revenue - not sure why they mention the €5,000 figure, as I feel that should only be applicable when it comes to declaring 'income' and unless your trading is classed as income from a tax standpoint (unlikely, unless it's your main source of income) then my understanding is that you're still liable to CGT and I don't know what they're talking about with the €5,000 figure 🤷♂️
In terms of the statement, and the traders you're copying, I think you need to look at it as if it's just you making all those trades autonomously. From a tax standpoint, it doesn't matter if you're 'copying' people or making those trading decisions yourself - the taxman just views it as 'these are the trades Mark has made during the year'. The 'copy' trading aspect shouldn't make any difference when it comes to your taxes.
It also might be necessary for you to look through your statement manually - as you'll need to figure out which trades you made gains on, which you made losses on, and of those losses, which ones are 'allowable' from an IRISH tax standpoint to offset against any gains (emphasis on Irish here and Irish tax rules - as I doubt eToro would facilitate country specific tax calculations, but cool if they do).
I'm also curious why you flag the end of October in your comment - you know end of October is just the tax cut off date for INCOME tax returns, not Capital Gains tax declarations right? You will just need to pay your CGT by Dec 15th (for trades made between Jan 1st and Nov 30th) and then by Jan 31st (for trades made between Dec 1 & Dec 31st).
So if you pay that tax in the new year (2022), you'll technically be paying late for any trades that you made between Jan 1 and Dec 1 of 2021.
@@TheLearningsReport ...thanks for the in-depth response...I need to decide whether to try to file myself or to use tax agent as a PAYE I've not had to familiarise myself with these elements before.
You’ve no idea how much I needed this 😂
Delighted, Barton! Glad it helped. 👍
- Cian
Within 2 minutes I finally understood what I need to do to file a CGT return after 30mins previously of being confused if I also needed to file a Form 12 (which I know now I don't) - thanks!
No longer stuck in the middle then! Glad it helped you figure it out 👍 Thanks for watching
You guys are fantastic! Please keep creating this kind of content - I'm sharing you endlessly to my friends. You're a MVP here! Thank YOU!
legends! great video. thank you very much, I can't believe this content is free!
Thanks, Mircea. Glad you found it so valuable and welcome on the journey. See you in the next one 👉
- Cian
All i need to do is make some gains this year and then this will be useful. Great stuff fellas.
Haha fortunately (or unfortunately) you'll be filing a CG1 form whether you make gains or losses. Glad it helped!
Thanks. You guys saved my bacon and what was left of my sanity. ❤
Thanks!
Thank you so much! This is super helpful especially for those of us coming to Ireland from a different country
Deadly video guys thank you, really appreciate the high quality of both the recording and the tax information!
Revenue should be paying you something for all of this information haha
Sorry for the late response - big summer off! haha we've thought the same ourselves 😅
Amazing video. The revenue website is so confusing in explaining CGT, to be honest. Thanks for the great explanation.
Really glad it helped you out. Cheers for the comment and for watching!
- Ste
Are yous still making videos ? Any chance guys can reply to this comment to answer a few questions ? would be very grateful 🙏
Really helpful and clear thanks! The one point that it doesn't address are transaction costs and expenses which I think are deductible and would reduce people's tax liability further!
Hey Jaygud,
Thanks for watching!
Yeah, it's a good call out. Usually I (Cian) consider the amount that arrives into my bank account as the amount received or sale price (after the fees have been deducted).
We'll note it for future videos - anything to reduce that CGT liability for our viewers! 😎
- Cian
Hi Jaygud - Ste here and just to add to Cian's point. Costs directly associated with the acquisition of your asset can be added to your cost basis from a tax standpoint. So for example, a trading fee of €1 would be added to a purchase of €100, meaning your cost basis would be €101 for tax purposes (thus reducing your tax liability marginally).
Note: not all fees are deductible, so you'll need to do your own due diligence to confirm what is and what isn't allowed!
Valeu!
thanks guys, as always awesome to the point informative video.
More of these investment related formalities topics are must.
Thanks so much for watching, Shiva. Completely agree, it may not be the most glamorous part of investing but important to understand as part of your strategy. More to come!
- Cian
@@TheLearningsReport exactly and u guys making it easy 🤘🏻
The video I have been waiting for finally. Thanks Lads Keep up the good work.
Haha, delighted the wait is over. :) Thanks a million for watching.
- Cian
Good and clear instructions,Thanks! Still will have to rewatch it when time comes🤭
Do you have a video on how to complete the CGT panel on Form 11 in relation to the disposal of a Rental Property?
great video. I was delaying filing my CGT return because I didn't know how to do it. this video was essential for me to understand it. I just would suggest you mention what we should do with the return. I sent it via ROS for example. thanks a lot!!
Hey Macnet!
Glad we could help you with filing your CGT return - it's done now, you can relax!
Ste mentions that you can send it via post or via My Enquiries at around 3:40 in the video. Glad you figured it out and thanks for watching - see you in the next one! :)
- Cian
Thank you so much for this. Very helpful and answered all of my questions.
Thanks great video, quick question, will revenue be asking for receipts of the purchase and sale of the stocks? I want fill this for future sale of RSU
Hi guys, you have done a good job here but the example seems rather straight forward.
For example, you have only taken in to consideration 2 trades in a year, say someone takes multiple small trades a day, the list soon gets very exhaustive.
Next, where would you put all the fees (Deposit fee using debit card, transaction fee, forex fee, stamp duty, french stamp duty, finraa fee etc), I suppose all of them can be coupled with the losses since they can be counted according to revenue.
Another one would be, what if one makes a profit till 30 th Nov but a loss in December because you have already paid the money before 15th Dec for gains in the period of 1st Jan-30th Nov.
There are a lot of such loopholes that can arise very easily.
Hey, I’m just wondering if you got an answer to this? I have hundreds of trades from the year because of copy trading and added up the figure is crazy. What did you do in this instance?
@@clomcdHey, sadly I did not. The content on the channel is broad but not deep.
What seems to be the issue you are running in, I have figured out a few answers through my interactions with the Revenue.
@@clomcdHi, sadly I did not.
I have gotten some of the answers through my interactions with the Revenue folks.
What seems to be the issue you are facing. ?
@@clomcd Hey, sadly I did not. The channel covers a broad spectrum of topics but sadly doesn't go deep.
What's the issue you are running into ?
Excellent video as usual, very helpful, thanks a lot for this !
Thank you! Great to see you're still following along with the channel, appreciate it. 👌
thanks for this very explanatory video. A question. Where should I send the paper form, I can't find an address?
Extremely useful video. Just to clarify, there is NO way to declare capital gains online? Due to the fact the the online Form 12 doesn't contain a CGT section, and additionally there is no online version of the CG1?
Thank you so much for putting this up! Can't imagine help comes from this Video!
Thank you v much for the support! and sorry for the late reply.
Cheers for this great video again! Amazing help guys, keep up the good work! :)
Fantastic video! Cheers lads!
And i'm back here, because I forgot to submit my returns form. Thanks fellas.
Hey Baz - nice to have you back. Moves to Berlin and 'forgets' to do his tax return. A likely story.
Happy New Year.
Ste
Hi, just a question. Do you still have to file the entire return if you did not make more than 1270? How exactly do you do that and what changes?
For example if I made 200 euro on one sale of stocks and 200 euro on another sale.
400 euro total gain. Would I fill out the form the same way and just leave chargeable gains blank?
A nice edit/addendum to this would be if you were just filing a loss for the year and had no chargeable gain...
Thanks for the suggestion! Basically the process is the same - you just would leave blank any section that asks for 'gains' and then put in your losses as the appropriate section. But something for us to mull over nonetheless, cheers 👍
This made it really easy! Many thanks
Hey guys, amazing video! Really appreciate the hard work and making it so concise.
I have 2 questions:
1. The shares I sold are in USD. How do I exchange this to Euros to be able to calculate what's owed?
2. What are the penalties if the payment wasn't made last year? (Asking for a friend who didn't know there was a difference between filing and paying ;))
Thank you! :)
I believe you simply convert the dollar value of the shares sold into euros using the exchange rate at the time you sold them. Most stock trading platforms will allow you to export an excel file of all your transaction details, including the exchange rate at the time.
Hey Annabel - and we appreciate the great feedback on the video, thank you!
1. Our understanding is the same as James' below - you would take the historical exchange rate for USD to EUR at the time you made the sale, and calculate accordingly.
2. Ah yes, we all have that friend...So 'technically' there is a late filing surcharge of 5 per cent of your liability if you file within two months of the deadline up to a maximum penalty of €12,695. A late filing surcharge of 10 per cent of your tax liability if you file two months after the deadline up to a maximum penalty of €63,485.
But in short, I feel it would be harsh for revenue to penalise you if you show you genuinely didn't know and that you're actively trying to pay it. You could always drop them a message and explain as much! Of course, no guarantees (you might get someone on a bad day), but I think thats what I'd probably do.
Hope that helps!
THANK YOU 🙏 YOU ARE LEGENDS!!! I badly needed my hand held through out the whole process of filling out this form (for next year) looking forward to the form 12 video so I can pay even more tax on my staking rewards!!
Love to hear this feedback, nice one Rob. So form 12 is actually already live! In case you missed it, I've linked below.
Form 12 ruclips.net/video/x4QVvH8DjM4/видео.html
We feel your pain re: staking and the taxes 😅
This was such an amazing video! Thank you so much. It was clear and incredibly helpful. Keep up the great work, guys!
AllTheJCs -- thanks so much for watching and delighted you like the video. See you in the next one. :)
- Cian
going through my CG1 for 2022 - the first part at 10:34 is absolutely painful and a bit confusing, it means I have to go back and note every single time I made a sale *of anything* all 2022, these have to be totalled? Maybe I will have this completed by the end of the year 😂
Thank you so much for the great explanation and guides on this, really appreciate this. It is step by step and I really wish Revenue hires you to make these videos as an official guides.
I have a question on chargeable gain with this example : 4000 euros (shared bought with 1000 euros and sold for 5000 thus 4000 euro profit which is chargeable gain) This could be a very silly question and if the video covered this, please let me know where I missed.
When we fill CG1 form, should we tell revenue how much we paid when we bought the shares? In this example, 1000 euros. How can revenue check if I calculate chargeable gain correctly or not? Do I have to submit the doc when I acquired shares (the value at the time of acquired) to Revenue? Thank you.
This video was so helpful. Thank you!
Great vid much appreciated.
Sorry just 2 questions:
1)How is the cg1 form submitted?
Is it just attached through my enquiries?
2) Can you file a cg1 online the same way you file a form 11?
Hey Tadhg,
Thanks for watching and for the questions.
You can file it by post or online although online is far easier.
Are you a chargeable individual i.e. have to fill out the form 11? There is a Capital Gains section in the Form 11 that you can fill out and submit that way. More in the video below:
ruclips.net/video/15fgO8-8o6g/видео.html
If you're not a chargeable individual, you can fill out the CG1 form and attach it as a message on MyEnquiries. Just make sure to ask for receipt of the form from Revenue.
- Cian
Really fantastic video. Thanks so much!
Thanks for another great and very helpful video. One question - if I bought a shares in specific year but I didn't sell any (I like to keep them as an investment) do I need to complete CG1 form? Should I then put 0 euro for gain and 0 euro for loss as I didn't sell anything? Thanks
Excellent content, very helpful thank you.
Hi @TheLearningsReport, if I have sold my stock and my net profit is less than €1270 (e.g, €500), do we still have to file the CG1 form? I want to do this for 2021. Also, THANK YOU for these videos!!
Do you have to show proof of all transactions for crypto ?
Update with 2022 form ?
This was very useful. Thank you.
Great videos! Any chance you could explain how to calculate proffit /loss after buying stock/crypto ,then partially selling some, then buying more , and partially seling again etc ... it seems very confusing to get average buy price etc .Cant find much info on youtube
Hey John, cheers for the feedback.
In short, you'll probably want to use some sort of crypto tax software as you may have quite the headache otherwise (Koinly, Coinpanda, Cointracker, etc.)! The more trades you've made, the trickier it becomes. 'Cost basis' is essentially what you're trying to figure out.
In Ireland we use the FIFO rule to calculate capital gains. I've linked two web pages below that should give you some better insight on the matter (albeit NOT from an Irish tax standpoint, so just keep this in mind as you're reading through - but they do give a good explanation on cost basis calculation)
Investopedia (scroll down to the 'calculating cost basis' example)
www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/060313/what-determines-your-cost-basis.asp
ZenLedger (a tax software provider - I have no idea what their service is like, I just thought their explanation was worth sharing as it saves me typing out my own!)
FIFO - Revenue.ie (They use 'stocks' as the example, but just switch 'crypto' in place of stock)
www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/selling-or-disposing-of-shares.aspx
In terms of doing a video on it, I think that's a great idea. Will just need to decide which crypto tax software option we want to use ourselves! Koinly is the only one I've briefly looked at personally.
- Ste
Please please do a video on this
@@robertslater5706 Cheers, Rob - leave it with us 👌
Great guide lads 😊
Thanks a mill for watching, Darren. :) Not the simplest of processes for beginner investors ... Or experienced investors!
- Cian
Hi guys thanks a lot for the video, I have one question please. How do i enter just a loss on form 11. On your example if there were nothing in 2020, how do i deal with the 2019 loss? thank again
Great job guys! Super helpful video! One quick follow up question - so we file the gain/loss for Jan - November before October 31st, what’s the process on reporting gain/loss for November? I can’t really know in October what exact gain/loss of future sell will be 🤷♂️Thanks!
Hi Michael,
Cheers for watching!
So, you only need to file the FOLLOWING year. So you should know what your gain is by then. So, if you made a gain in November 2021, you would only need to file by 31 October 2022.
For paying, you only need to pay after the gain also. So if the gain was made between 1 Jan and 30 Nov, you pay by Dec 15th. If the gain was in Dec, you pay by Jan 31st the following year.
Hope this helps - any questions let us know.
- Cian
Thank you very much for the video. I didn't get any profile on Profit Sharing Scheme. So i need to file CG1 form for loss. Can you please point out numbers related to losses that needs to be filled in the form? e.g. point 8, etc..
Thank you for making this video
Thanks folks. Lifesaver of a video. Can I ask if in the case of shares, is an RTS1A form also necessary ?
Cheers for the video lads, very helpful. Stupid question, in terms of sending the form in what's the actual postal address?!?!
Great video guys, pls keep it going
Thanks Dmitrii, really appreciate the feedback 👌🏼
Quality video - cheers!
Cheers Alan - Glad it helped 👍
Great video.if you forget to file as you didnt owe any cgt on the sale what is the surcharge based on ? So 5 % or 10% of what? If you are late what should you do ?
Sorry for the late reply, Sharon - big summer off!
The amount would be charged on whatever your initial taxable gain was. However, it might be worth emailing revenue, explaining the situation and saying you'd like to pay the amount you owe. They might be lenient and just say its ok as long as you just pay what you owe (or they could say you need to pay the interest - it's a flip of a coin!).
If its not a crazy amount of money that you owe, I'm sure they'd be open to discusssion :)
very helpful 🎉🎉 but I have 1 question, whitch section I must declare government bond? could you make me an example if you make a capital gain with government bond. thanks in advance
Irish government bonds are tax free on any capital gains that arise on maturity or disposal for Irish resident investors.
Great video. Generally, do Revenue just take it that the figures and calculations you give are correct? Does anyone double check the figures? Do you have to show your workings out for the final figures? Do you have to give them copies of the paperwork for the shares when you bought and sold them or do they just accept the figures you give them?
What happens if you genuinely make a mistake in the figures you send them.
Cheers. Unless you're audited, yes - no need to show your workings.
In terms of making a mistake, I think the general idea is that it's somewhat subjective from Revenues standpoint - although the responsibility definitely lies with the filer. I believe they can be flexible, but its their call on where the line is drawn in the sand as of course people try to screw the system!
How would you cover the transaction fees? Would you add those into the losses?
Your broker should automatically add those to your cost basis. So if you paid $100 for a stock, and a $1 trading fee, your cost basis should be $101 and thats what your taxed on (thereby reducing your tax liability marginally). Double check your trade history to see if the fee was added to your purchase amount!). So there ins't a specific section to declare fees, it should all just be under the one calculation.
- Ste
Thank you , really helpful video!
Thanks for video very informative, I was wondering for declaring a small amount of Capital gains from stocks, can you declare this on your Form 12 online and if so which section would you do this in?
If I buy stock and don't sell in the same year, do I still have to complete a form? Thanks lads
No. You pay any tax owed in the year of the sale and file a return the following year.
Great video thank you for sharing it.
What about the fees paid to the broker on the purchase and sale of the shares? I believe that can be deducted from the CTG due, right?
Another question is, how to proceed on the form with the 5% or 10% extra it filing CTG from 2019 for exemple using the same amounts you used on your exemple?
Thank you :)
Hi Richard,
Thanks for watching!
1. There are certain allowable expenses that you can deduct for the CGT calculation. Quoting Revenue, these can include:
"costs (for example, fees paid by you to a solicitor or auctioneer) when you acquired and disposed of the asset"
More info here: www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/how-to-calculate-cgt.aspx#:~:text=They%20are%20costs%20that%20you,and%20disposed%20of%20the%20asset.
2. The late filling surcharge is calculated as a percentage of the tax due. In our example, we wouldn't have to pay anything for a late filling in 2019 as we made a loss and then would pay €57 (570*10%) for 2020 for filing late. More info here: www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/when-and-how-do-you-pay-and-file-cgt.aspx&ved=2ahUKEwiFmoPEzIP2AhVJi1wKHX_OCcsQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Cwb_I6UJWpZNcc99_Cc0g
- Cian
Very helpful, but what happens if I will not sale the crypto assets?
Hi how I can fill cg1 for selling property than never lived in it
Would be nice to know how to fill the CG1 form not just for stock, but also for futures, equity and options, forex, and ETFs!
I don’t think it matters. Revenue only needs to know the profit/loss and any tax owed. You can keep your own records for individual sales, stocks, fx, commodities
Guys u are just fantastic!
Hey Giovanni! Really appreciate the kind words and glad it helped! See you in the next one! 👉
- Cian
brilliant video thank you!!
Nice one, Paul - glad you found it helpful! Cheers for the shout.
- Ste
Hi
Would you know where I shuold add the gain /loss of forex trading please?
great video
Thank you so much for this video! Can you please let me know if there is a quicker way to submit the CG1 form online (via the myrevenue webiste) or if sending it by post is the only way? Thanks! And apologies if you have covered this in the video and I missed it.
My second question is, what exchange rate should we use to convert shares in US Dollars to Euro? Tried googling and different websites give different exchange rates at a particular date. So does Revenue provide an exchange rate to use for when we receive the shares? (We have the share prices in USD but just not sure where to source the exchange rate info from, to convert it to Euro).
Please reply :)
I am sorry they didn't answer you, because now I have the same questions. Did you figure this out, and send your CG1 form online?
I have a problem with section 1. a)...I did way more than 2 sales this year, but in my brokers statements they are all in Dollars. So I have to add all up and convert result to Euro, by current exchange rate, or something else?
Great video. Are expenses/trading costs like exchange fees and gas fees deducted from a gain? I'm using Koinly
Hey Simon, thanks for watching. In short, it's not clear re: gas fees etc. For trading fees on stock transactions, these can be added to your cost basis in order to reduce your overall tax liability - so a $100 stock purchase with a $1 trading fee would mean a $101 cost basis for the stock.
For gas fees, I would say you could make a decent case to revenue to at least deduct some of them, but as there isn't specific guidance on it - it's still a pretty grey area. No harm in trying, but I'd err on the side of caution in case they turn around and say no! Linking an article below from Token Tax that might offer some insights.
tokentax.co/blog/are-ethereum-gas-fees-tax-deductible/
- Ste
Great video well done. Am looking forward to the one dealing with dividend returns. I use Degiro which forwards on 15% of tax due to Revenue then I go into MyAccount and file the remaining 5% which comes off my tax free allowance the next time I get paid. Can you go over everything the individual has to do in order to be compliant with Revenue please? Thanks again.
Thanks a million for watching! That's interesting that Degiro do that - I (Cian) also use Degiro but I'm not sure how other brokers deal with dividends from a tax perspective.
Yes, we will be going through Form 11 and Form 12 which deal with dividend income in the coming weeks so stay tuned! I have also added a dividend specific video to the list. 👍
- Cian
How to offset any charges, say someone started only in 2023, with profit of EUR 1000 with the broker cost of EUR 90. How is that taken into calculation?
If i didnt file my losses before oct 31st while i get a late penalty charge? thanks for the great vid!
Really helpful video! does anyone know what address the form must be sent to? cheers!
Hey Dean,
The easiest way to send would be by attaching an e-copy to a message on MyEnquiries on Revenue.ie
If you need to file by post, you can send it to your local Revenue Office which you can find here: www.gov.ie/en/service/find-your-local-revenue-office/
- Cian
@@TheLearningsReport Appreciate the reply! do you have any advise if I don't know my 'Aggregate Consideration'? Could my gain for the year go in that section?
@@deanguiney9658 In short, you basically need to find out what that number is - can you export your trade history from your broker? That will be able to give you the number pretty quickly.
But no, your gain wouldn't be placed in aggregate consideration.
Curious to know if you can offset charitable donations against profits from the same year ?
Hey sorry for the late reply on this, busy few days!
As far as we're aware, you can't offset charitable donations against profits from your investments specifically. It's more from an income side of things that I think donations come into play. But to be honest, it's something we know little about so will need to do a bit more digging! Great question and thanks for flagging it. Let us know if you find any more info on it.
- Ste
If I have a loss for this year, do I just put in my consideration in 1, gains in 7, losses in 8, net losses in 18 and then everything else including the self assessment will just be 0? I won't need to split up losses between 19 and 20 depending on if they happened before or after the end of January?
Hi Johnny, to clarify - the loss you're referring to, it occurred 'last year' but you're filing it this year, right? If the loss occurred this year, then you wouldn't need to file it until next year.
But yes, your calculations otherwise sound correct to me! If it's a loss, then you shouldn't need to do Section 19 & 20
- Ste
Hi! How do you declare the sale of an inherited house? how do you calculate/estimate the capital gain/loss of an inherited house (house not in IE, but based in EU) and where should the information be filled on the form for this case? thanks.
Hey Elise,
Thanks for watching the video!
Before I start, I want to caveat that I am not a tax adviser and this is not tax advice. For an inherited house, you have to use the market value of the property on the date of the death. How this market value is calculated can be based on a few different methods and this has been topical recently with the LPT changes for properties in Ireland. Given your property is based outside of Ireland, it might be worth raising an enquiry with Revenue to clarify. I have linked a section on Revenue below which is being used for valuing property for LPT in Ireland which may be a helpful guide (albeit different to your situation. Also, for inheritances you may be liable to Capital Acquisitions Tax, just to be aware.
I also want to link Revenue's guide on CGT on foreign property. You will owe Irish CGT if you are resident or ordinarily resident in Ireland, however, depending on the country the property is located in, you may owe CGT there too. There are certain reliefs in countries where Ireland has a double taxation agreement.
In terms of where to put it on the form, depending on the property type, you can enter it into the Residential Premises or Commercial Premises sections.
More information:
- www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/valuing-your-property/sources-for-valuing-your-property.aspx
- www.revenue.ie/en/property/foreign-property/cgt-when-disposing-of-a-foreign-property.aspx
- www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/gift-and-inheritance-tax-cat/index.aspx
Hope this helps!
- Cian
@@TheLearningsReport would you have any advice on my question above? thanks.
@@elisejarry-donovan7055, just confirming you saw the response Cian left the other day? Or do you have an additional follow-up that we've missed?
Cheers
- Ste
Hi, so u said that we have to pay tax on dividend.
This doesn't apply when we auto reinvest the dividends back into the stock does it?
How do you work the tax owing when for example you convert money and buy US Dollars or British Pounds to buy stocks on foreign stock exchanges?
Use this link for fx rate provided by revenue
excellent very helpful
Cheers, Mark!
Thanks for this useful video.
One thing is unclear to me... Does point 8 ("Losses in the year before S. 604A relief") include also the losses which can not be offset from gains such as shares bought and sold within a four-week period? And, is it correct that in point 11 ("Chargeable Gain(s) net of allowable current year losses") I can substract only losses which can be offset from gains?
Hey Jarek - great question.
So our understanding is that Point 8 is for allowable losses only, but for safety sake, I'd definitely advise running that by revenue/tax professional to be certain!
For point 11, again our understanding is that yes the salient point is 'allowable' i.e you're only deducting losses that are available to offset so if the losses can't be offset against your gains, then there's no need to add them to the form as they're somewhat irrelevant.
Of course, if in doubt, always better to double check with revenue directly as we're not tax professionals (etc etc) 😊
Great video lads, I just have one question, if I have profits made on crypto but havent transferred them to by bank acc, do I still have to declare them?
Hey Sam,
Good question - so as long as you sold the crypto or exchanged it and made a gain greater than €1,270, you will have to pay CGT regardless of where the money is or is transferred to. If it's below €1,270, you should still file even if it's a loss.
Annoying but currently how the tax system works!
- Cian
Love your videos. Very helpful. Was wondering if you could address NFTs and tax implications. I see the transaction as swapping one token for another but in Koinly it shows as a withdrawal.
Hey Sinead, glad you're enjoying and thanks for the question. Like with most crypto taxes, it's not massively clear especially in Ireland. Our understanding is that if you 'create' an NFT, and sell it, the proceedings are liable for income tax. If you simply buy and sell NFTs, that should fall under CGT rules (similar to tangible pieces of art/paintings).
As with swapping regular crypto tokens (e.g. ETH for BTC), swapping is considered a taxable event just as a sale would be. So shouldn't matter whether you swap an NFT for another, that's still viewed as a taxable event regardless of whether you withdraw the sale proceedings from your account, etc. (that may have already been clear to you, but just to be safe).
Koinly at the end of the day is just a tax facilitator, so regardless of the info their platform is showing you, it's still the individuals responsibility in Ireland, so I'd err on the side of caution either way!
Might be worth pinging revenue the same question and see what they come back to you with.
Hope this helps!
- Ste
Good job guys
Thanks for watching, Agnieszka!
Do I need to pay CGT if I have sold the shares on the app but I still haven't withdrawn it into my bank account?
Also, What if I choose to reinvest the profit I made into other stocks? How does the tax for that work?
Hey,
Q1 - Yes, if you sell, the taxable event has occurred (regardless of where you keep the funds)
Q2 - If you sell a stock for €1000 profit, you owe 33% tax on that €1000. That would be €333. But of course, tax isn't due to be paid the moment you sell the stock, it's due by the dates outlined in the video. So technically, although you have an upcoming tax bill €333, you still have €1000 in your pocket. You can reinvest that amount, but then you will need to account for:
Paying the €333 tax bill due on the initial €1000 profit at some stage in the future
The €1000 profit you reinvest, is simply viewed as a new €1000. So if you sell again, then you then will be liable for another €333 euro.
The idea is that when you sell for a profit, you take out some of your gain and save it for taxes. The rest you can then do what you want with (reinvest, buy stuff, go to Vegas, etc.)
- Ste
@@TheLearningsReport Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. Makes sense now. So basically for every time I sell my shares and make a profit I need to keep records of every profit I made so I can pay the 33% CGT on them during the tax filing time.
Also another question I had is lets say i sell my stocks but have made no profit yet. How does the tax work in those cases? So let's say I sold my shares for 'A' at a loss of 100 euros. I believe that gets added to the CGT Exemption as well but how do I go about doing that? And also if I made only a negative sale do I still need to make any sort of payment?
@@kingmsm4740 Sorry, your follow up got flagged as spam for some reason and didn't appear until we approved it!
Yes, good record keeping is key (but your broker app should also keep a full transaction history, so you can also export that when you need it)
Yes you can offset some of your losses against future gains. Have you watched our video on Capital Gains Tax in Ireland? That gives a full run through of how to offset your losses, and when you can do it.
- Ste
In online non-PAYE section, do I mention total dividends before the 15% US domicile tax deduction? Or The amount I received after that automatic deduction?
Or is it just the amount that is due i.e. 5% (as 20% IT - 15% already deducted) ?
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this PR. Great question. To the best of our knowledge, you pay the *full* amount based on what's owed (i.e. the gross amount ignoring DWT) and then you apply for a tax refund/credit after.
That being said we're not 100% certain on this so we'd suggest dropping this question to Revenue through MyEnquiries to double check. I (Ste) own very few dividend paying stocks so I actually haven't had to deal with this issue just yet! Would love to hear what revenue say back to you once you get a response though 👍
@@TheLearningsReport Hey! Would love to know if you guys have some more info on US dividends and Form-12 filing for it.
I contacted Revenue because they charged me 20% tax on top of 15% US domicile tax. And their exact response:
"Yes, you are liable to tax of 20% on the dividend after deduction of US tax."
This is quite confusing as this is not as per the information they have on their own website.
Or do I need to apply for tax credits?
For e.g. with $100, I thought US taxed me $15 and Revenue would take further $5 for total of $20. This leaves me with $80.
But as per Revenue, they charged me 20% after 15% i.e. 15%($100)+20%($85)=$32. This leaves $68.
That's a difference of additional 12%!
@@pranjal7293 Hi Pranjal. Generally speaking, I'd listen to revenue's responses over ours 😅 But that being said, everyone can make mistakes, so always worth double checking if you have doubts. In this case though, I think they're correct but one bit still confuses me. Let me explain:
Your gross amount of US dividends are taxed as income tax in Ireland, so this will be at your marginal rate of income tax (either 20% or 40%). The 15% that is deducted at source (i.e. before you even get the dividend) is what the US government take from the dividend. If Ireland didn't have a double taxation treaty with the US, you would actually be paying 30% to the US government, and the remainder in Ireland.
As 15% is already deducted, our understanding is that you are liable to pay the balance here in Ireland (which will be either 5% if you're on the 20% lower rate of income tax, or 25% if you're in the higher band of 40%) + USC & PRSI. Technically, you could be paying up to 52% tax on dividend payments once you factor in your marginal income tax rate and the USC & PRSI.
What confuses me, is that in this situation, they're saying it's 20% - whereas I would've thought it would be 25% (if you're in the higher income bracket).
Definitely worth asking them for more info if you're unsure.
thank you so much for this video, it really helped me a lot! I have a question: if I am in a joint assessment (with my spouse) is my understanding correct that we need to complete just one CG1 form and in section 25 (self assessment - capital gains tax) we provide the total of CGT tax that we paid together for our gains? or do we need to complete 2 CG1 forms separately for each of us?
thanks for this video. I have a question about the form to fill out for next year.
In 2021 I generated capital gains from crypto trade and I have no other earnings. If I got it right I will just have to fill in the CG1 form. It's correct? Thank you
Thanks for watching. Lucas!
Are you a PAYE worker? If you have less than €5,000 in non-PAYE earnings, you can file a CG1 form for your crypto Capital Gains. Then for the non-PAYE income (if you have any) you can file a form 12.
If you have more than €5,000 in non-PAYE or are self employed, you can file a form 11 which has a Capital Gains section.
- Cian
But yes in summary, based on your example and the details you mentioned, CG1 form is all you’ll need to do!
Thanks very much for taking the time to put this together. Are you able to account for costs (fx charges/transaction charges) into the form - perhaps as losses in point 8?
Hey Muireadach - you're welcome and thanks for the comment. So our understanding is that for direct transaction costs (e.g. trade commission), you would include these costs in your cost basis for the purchase. So a $100 stock with a $1 commission would be $101 from a tax standpoint (thereby reducing your overall tax liability, marginally).
When it comes to fx charges, I don't think these can be included (but I could be wrong). My understanding is that you exchanging your EUR for USD is simply just that, you exchanging EUR for USD. What you do with the USD thereafter, is entirely up to you - but in this scenario you've just decided to buy a stock! So although the fx trade is facilitated by your broker as part of the transaction, I don't think its seen as being 'directly part of the transaction' from a tax standpoint. As I said, not 100% sure on this so probably worth double checking if you have doubts!
- Ste
its very helpful thanks for the video. quick question if you can , would the 33% tax apply for US stock as well ? i was reading something in regards 40% taxes, not sure hows that relevant
33% Cgt on US shares
Thank you so much for creating the video. What is the difference between "Name and Address" and "Return address"
Sorry for the late response - big summer off!
I think they're likely the same unless you want the return address to be under a different name/address than your own?
Great video, in regards to carrying losses forward, if I have a 3000 gain for example in the current tax year and a 3000 loss in the year previous to carry forward to use against the gain, do I have the right to claim the 1270 exemption or will the 3000 in losses carried forward be used without the exemption ?
Did you file a return showing the loss in the year previous? You should always use your allowable losses before using the e1270 exemption
Hi lads, really appreciate the video. Very clear and concise! I do have a question about the Form though.... if my chargeable gains for the year is 1250, and losses in the year are 200, how much can I claim in the personal exemption? Am I claiming the full 1250? I would assume this is the case if I wish to carry the 200 loss into 2021?
Hey Peter - thanks for the comment and question.
Tax rules indicate that you need to deduct your losses BEFORE using your exemption, unfortunately. So:
1,250 (gains)
- 200 (loss)
= 1050 (chargeable gain)
- 1270 exemption
= €0 tax liability
Hope that clears things up!
- Ste
Hi guys, thanks for the video. I've received cashed shares last year from my employer. Registered for CGT on MyAccount and made the appropriate payment on time last year. I now need to file before 31st October. Do I need to complete a CG1 and form 12? PAYE employee and income from shares was over 5k. Any help appreciated.
Hey, thanks for the great vid. Really helped me out. Would you also know which asset category on Revenue site Bitcoin and crypto would fall under? Shares/securities - quoted, shares/securities-unquoted, other assets. I don't think the other categories would be possible, so I havnt included them here. Thanks for the help
Hey Jimmy,
Glad you found the video helpful!
So, I think you could argue for any of those but my best guess would be Shares/Securities Quoted as we included in the video. I submitted an enquiry there to Revenue to double check and will let you know when I hear.
Better to submit something before the deadline, regardless. If it's in the wrong category then you can easily explain to Revenue and it won't change your overall liability!
- Cian
@@TheLearningsReport Thanks so much Cian. Really helpful. J
@@Bobby-jq9ct no worries at all, Jimmy. I'll let you know what Revenue says!
- Cian
@Jimmy got a response from Revenue saying that Crypto should be included in Other Assets. 👍
- Cian
@@TheLearningsReport Ok great. I’ve already filed so could just file an amended return in this Case. Cheers.
Hi guys, many thanks for making these videos. if we are mailing the form what address do we need to send it to?
Sorry for the late response - big summer off!
www.revenue.ie/en/contact-us/customer-service-contact/collector-generals-division.aspx
Do u know what sites provide indicators such as ema, sma and mac d in Ireland?
Hey Dave - I'm afraid I don't. Is this in relation to forex trading? Not really my circle of competence so I honestly couldn't even suggest where you could start. I checked my usual suspects (Finviz, Stockrow, Interactive Brokers TWS) and nothing jumping out at me, but I could have easily missed it.
Sorry we can't be of more use!
- Ste