One of my grandmother's brothers was one of you 'Australians', he had gone to Australia to seek his fortune, he came back with the Australian troops & rescued a man from a burning aircraft, however they gave a medal to his officer, his mates weren't having that & kicked up a fuss until he was given a medal.
WHAT is going on with these RUclips threads??? When I click on the blue "view reply" tab, what opens up repeatedly is nothing but blank space, and the avatar of the poster is absent. This is happening all of the time, with all kinds of different video threads. It can say "18 replies" in the blue field, and not a one shows up. Could it be my computer, or is there a glitch in RUclips? That many posters can't possibly be deleting their replies, and it only happens with the replies, never the original comments. I am obviously logged into my Google account or I wouldn't be able to post this comment. Any explanations?
On the Battlefield, you can beat a few of the Pilots most of the time, or beat more of the Pilots a few times, BUT you simply should never try to beat Snoopy.
My grandfather told us about his dogfight with the Red baron, he was always angry at people who said that the Baron was a blood thirsty murderer, my grandfather explained that his gun had jammed and the Red Baron saw him banging his gun and realised it was jammed and waved my grandfather on and flew away from my grandfather and let him live. By the way I'm almost 60 yoa
That's cool as hell. I would wear that with pride. Yeah, that was back before guerrilla combat, back when chivalrous combat was still the aim. Enemies or not, they fought with honor. Its like the Christmas battle where they stopped fighting and both sides sang Christmas carols to the same God. Gave them perspective.
WOW!! Thats amazing and extremely interesting!! If you don't mind sharing, what was your Grandfathers'name and Squadron, and, the date of your Grandfather's encounter with Von Richthofen? An encounter like your Grandfthers' deserves to be documented!! 👍
True but britains wouldnever admit it was a infantryman who shot They desperately were in search of ahero so a flyer was needet a pilot been in the air that day would be the absolutebest choice!
Look for a more recent Discovery Channel episode, has bit more information. If memory serves, the Baron had suffered a head injury prior to being shot down.
🎶 "10, 20, 30, 40, 50 or more... the bloody Red Baron was running up the score. Eighty men died just to end that streak of the bloody Red Baron of Germany!" 🎶 As a kid I loved stories of the Red Baron and the new knights of the air in the early days of air combat. As an adult I am awed and amazed at the bravery of those early flyers in planes that were barely more than Orville and Wilbur Wright's prototype compared to the marvels of technology of today.
Me too! Even Charlie Brown's Snoopy got in on that brief craze about WW1 pilots in the 60s. I saw the movie "The Blue Max" on the big screen at that time also and was so fascinated with that stuff.
Can one imagine the sheer terror of being shot in the chest, knowing you are dying, yet, fighting to stay alive, and, functional, while flying an Airplane ??
I was cruising about 65mph years ago one summer day on my motorcycle wearing only a tank top, jeans, boots & helmet. A bumblebee hit me in the center of the chest. I saw him coming at me head-on. Still haven't figured out how his stinger embedded so deep. Without the stinger, it would have still hurt quite a lot. I was momentarily (4 or 5 sec) stunned. I honestly thought about what it must feel like to be shot and trying to keep a plane under control. I've been hit through the years several times by small debris and hard shell bugs, even stung on the face by a yellow jacket before going face shield and full-face helmet, but that bumblebee really lit me up that day. How horrible it would be to be shot and still trying to keep it together!
@@kennethwood3984 Just a respectful comment from myself, being an ER/ICU MD / Military Dr., but also an avid ATV / biker couple decades ago: *I was also running a quad cycle quite fast when a wasp hit / stung me right in the sternum area. Felt even worse than a bullet strike. (Yup!; I've had a couple, while in service). *I have seen many fighters / soldiers hit, during combat. Most 'torso area' hits, tend to disable the fighter in a matter of seconds, even if the wound is not fatal. Several others, specifically firearm leg wounds from afar, (Not compromising bone integrity), were sometimes unnoticed until several minutes later, though.
Yeah! Lothar was known as the reckless Richthofen. He was also an excellent shot, and had more 'kills' for the amount of time in the air, but: he spent a LOT of time in hospital. The guy racked up some injuries.
Red Barons great nephew had a mansion inDenver. The Von Richthofen family crest displayed above the entry gate. A fund raiser was held there many years ago. A flying replica of the Barons red triplane was parked on the front drive.
He made the same mistake Mannock and Luke made. He flew too low over enemy trenches and was a good target for infantry fire and machine guns. Those World War I fighters were not known for durability and the pilots were unprotected and exposed. He was too fixated on his target and probably didn't know how low he was, or that he was over Australian infantrymen with machine guns. Even the greatest pilots can make a mistake, especially after years of arduous combat duty.
Agree with everything you say. There is also evidence that at least one, if not both, of his guns jammed. From the ground it's not hard to hit a plane with a machine gun when it's only 100 yards over your head. Especially when the plane makes a U-turn to give you a second shot, so to speak. Sgt. Popkin fired and missed the first time, he didn't miss the second...
I only knew of the Red Baron through Snoopy's imaginary shootouts with him. Didn't really give it much thought for a long time until I grew to be interested in history. It's quite interesting to know Sparky (that's Schultz btw) knew about Von Richtofen, but Sparky liked history. He must have known about this debate over who actually shot down the Red Baron too since Snoopy *never* won against him.
Twenty years ago, I leafed through a coffee-table format book about this subject. The author left no doubt that ground fire was what had killed the Baron. But, in truth, what killed him was the fact that the Red Baron was now longer the man he once had been. He had killed enough men to affect the hardest of hearts, and he had only recently escaped death by millimeters. He was in the grip of what we now call P.T.S.D. Now he acted like the greenest of raw recruits. And it killed him...
It's been more or less proved that it was an Australian gunner on the ground who fired the shot to the barons chest that killed him,,not captain brown who most people believed he brought him down..But to be honest,,it was manfrieds own fault that he died that day,,he broke all his own rules to chase after an inexperienced allied pilot who he thought was about to be his 81st kill..He broke away from the dog fight to pursue the lone allied plane,,and chased him for a while and he was flying very low to the ground over the Somme valley...All those flyers were very brave men and they all had high respect for each other no matter which side they fought for
It’s believed that by this point in the war von Richthofen had developed the “thousand yard stare” common to “battle fatigue” or PTSD, especially from loosing so many comrades during the war, and that this and his existing battle injury contributed both to a sense of fatalism and his poor judgement on his part and ultimately his death. There is nothing glorious about war. Most of those who glorify war have never seen battle or death up close and personal. My paternal grandfather who volunteered early saw action as part of the 82nd All American division of the American Expeditionary Force would never discuss the war with anyone. I don’t know what my maternal grandmother’s boyfriend experienced during WW I . He was killed.in action in France not long after arriving in Europe. She mourned him the rest of her life.
Wilfrid "Wop" May became a legendary Bush pilot, made one of the most famous mercy flights, delivering Diphtheria vaccine to a remote northern outpost in winter and helped track down the Mad Trapper from the air and flew a shot up RCMP to a doctor from the wilderness. He is an Officer of the Order of the British Empire, DSC, Medal of Freedom from the USA and, On October 6, 2004, NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity located a rock on the south slope of the Endurance Crater on Mars. The 1 metre (3.3-foot) rock was given the name "wopmay" after the legendary Canadian bush pilot
If it had been Brown, then the bullet would have hit the Baron square in his back at heart level, killing him instantly. He wouldn't have been alive at all by the time the soldiers arrived. The bullet clearly entered him from the right side, which means that it couldn't have been Brown.
more to the controversial side, how do we actually know if it was him flying that plane when it was finally taken down... I mean think about it, 2 days from going home and now he decides to break the rules of his mentor and himself as a pilot? on his 80-81 kill now he decides to tunnel vision and pull a rookie mistake? what if that wasn't him in that iconic red plane that got shot down and was actually being piloted by a replacement acting on his behalf. he probably thought he was invincible inside the plane of the "Red Baron" and figured he could just chase the enemy plane as much as he wanted and just return to his buddies after getting the kill... I know this is kinda bullshit, I'm just saying that it can't be that big of a coincidence, I mean seriously, this is the best pilot of ww1, trained by the former best pilot of ww1, with a personal record of 80 confirmed kills... do you really think he would go and pull something that risky and amateur, going against everything his mentor had taught him, 2 days from his "scheduled" leave?
The video said that Brown was not directly behind him but coming out of dive. It is quite possible perhaps probable it was the Vickers. That said it was a single bullet to an aircraft that was not flying straight and level. In addition that claims of Browns response have long been answered differently to the claims of the video. Brown was quite ill at the time and was well known to not make an issue of kills. What is described in the video could be applied to his other kills. Brown's great pride was that he never lost a single member from his flight. These kinds of analysis are always interesting but I won't bet the house on them.
Brown in no way hit the Baron, what they are not telling you Brown's friend came to see him the night before. Brown had dysentery, running a low fever and combat fatigue, had a hard time getting to sleep and was about to be pulled out of combat for leave. Brown's friend got a promises that he would not fly until he went on leave, Brown like the Baron pushed himself to beyond the limit of most people and would fly the next morning patrol. This is also not factored into any of the any recreations of the battle, and non have shown Brown scoring a hit on the Baron already, adding in the other factors Brown missed wide right, as shown in the recreations; this alerted the Baron you turned to the left a little; as what happened in real life. The Baron is hit by ground fight in less than the next 5 minutes; lands the plane; throwing his goggles off as the plane rolls to hard stop and says to the solder coming up "Kaput," his wound gave him at best 30 seconds to live. He landed as he did not want to burn in his plane as he had seen so many others die.
@@kasper7574 even more controversial take: a Mormon missionary from the US talked to his mother years after WWI, and she told him that there was a mechanic that admitted that he ruined the Baron's plane (he didn't make a rookie mistake, some of the gears of his plane fell off) because Herman Göring blackmailed the mechanic. The mechanic told the Baron's mother that Göring knew he would be one of two candidates to replace the Baron when he died, which is why he did what he did. (There's also a story of what happened to Göring's rival to take over the Flying Circus, but that's another thing)
@@Species5008 uncle in English I admire people who can understand our language with just a few errors as opposed to American citizens who can speak only English. Time for us as Americans to learn a new language blessings to you and yours sir.
The funeral at the end says he was given a military respectful funeral & 21 gun salute by allied soldiers..true...but..THEY ARE ALL AUSTRALIAN SOLDIERS....absolutely he was shot down by an Australian machine gunner Also..if u can visit the Australian war memorial in canberra(fascinating regardless of the red barron)..there are pieces of the barons plane on view. The controversy is that it has taken so long to get to the facts..as the Australians just got on with the war & went interested in headline hunting but still had time to give a respectful send off to an equally deserving adversary
Just because he was given a funeral by Australian soldiers doesn't mean that he was shot down by an Australian machine gunner. Come now, are you serious?
@@infinitecanadian you r not still clinging to the Canadian flier.snoopy r u If you study the troop layout..aussie & Canadian soldiers had a far gap between them
A lot of his personal effects were stolen off his body, his last airplane - the red tripe - was cannibalized for souvenirs in a matter of minutes by troops on the ground , his trophies back at the Richthofen estate were confiscated by the communist Russians after WWII when they took that area and have yet to be returned or accounted for.
What a magnificent portrayal of events. The final analysis brings another wreath of honour to von Richthofen: that he did NOT lose the dogfight, and his death was a consequence of something more mundane - groundfire. I am very moved and proud that the Allies gave von Richthofen a hero’s burial. Honour to a brave foe. ❤️
The Baron had to have known the dangers in flying so low over the Allied trenches. So many airplanes are brought down by ground fire in every war, World War I was no exception. Surely von Richthofen knew that he was taking a huge risk by pursuing the British pilot for as long and for as far as he did. And surely he was aware that his own aircraft, painted in it's distinctive colors, would have been a very prominent target. Perhaps he just couldn't give up his last chance at one last kill, and it proved his undoing.
He was also chasing the guy that was chasing his own cousin on his maiden combat fight--Wolfram von Richthofen, whom Manfred told to stick by him. Why would he make such a decision?? The dude was chasing his rookie cousin!
I'll tell you one thing If I had to do what they did back in the day in those airplanes I would have been drunk every time I took off At least your nerves would be OK.🍺🍺🍺
It was a proper way for an ace to go down ....ground fire. Most attack Pilots fear ground fire more than other Pilots . It was the only way they could bring him down. The French pilot who was shot out of the air from the clock tower was the same story... he couldn't be bested one-on-one so they had to trick him... they knew he checked that clock at 1 p.m. every mission so they put a canon in the tower A noble Fate to know no-one bested you one-on-one
Stolen Valor is nothing new as evidenced by the pilot who let the world think he shot down the Red Baron. Those pilots who flew WW1 planes were courageous young men whose love of country, honor, and adventurous spirit trumped any fear they may have had.
To be fair to Brown, he did fire on the Red Baron and had some reason to believe he had been the one to shoot him down. It was years before it was proven Australian groundfire actually did it.
Why on earth is the background music so loud? Difficult to hear the commentary. This seems to be very common these days, especially on tv. It needs to stop!
This is what happened: American Pilot Recalls Day Red Baron Was Shot Down By ROBERT H. HULL LAS VEGAS, Nev. (AP) - Oliver Colin LeBoutillier, believed to be the only living survivor of the World War I dogfight that killed famous German ace "Red" Baron Manfred von Richthofen, says today's pilots are better than the daredevils of 50 years ago. "They have to be," says the Las Vegas businessman. "Their equipment is more sophisticated. I had 29 hours and one minute before I began flying combat in 1917 and today to get a private ticket you have to have 50 hours. "The kids flying today have the same spirit we did. They just have better equipment," he reflects. He helped train U.S. pilots during World War II and later flew for Hollywood films. LeBoutillier left his hometown of East Orange, N.J. to join the Canadian flying corps in 1917 to fight in France. Today he admits to being "something more than 70," is actively running a Las Vegas pharmaceutical distributing company, and recently collaborated on a book covering the controversy surrounding who killed the Red Baron. Richthofen shot down 80 Allied planes before he himself was shot down April 21, 1918, over Allied territory in France. LeBoutillier remembers the dogfight with absolute clarity, he says, because "it was the greatest fight of any war under any circumstances." Noting that Australian ground forces claimed credit for killing the Baron, LeBoutillier says it could also have been his fellow pilot, Capt. Roy Brown, who strafed the baron less than a minute before the Australians began firing from the ground. The Canadian RAF officially credits Brown. "By God, I saw Brown's tracer bullets hitting into the fuselage around the cockpit area. The baron turned his head, knew he had been fired on, and continued chasing another Canadian pilot, Lt. Wilfrid May." LeBoutillier said Richthofen may have lost his bearings because of the dogfight in an unusual easterly wind and because he was chasing May, a green pilot flying apart from the Allied formation. Eleven Sopwith Camels of the Allied air forces tied into 27 German planes of Richthofen's so-called Flying Circus on the famous day, says LeBoutillier. "We all came back that day on both sides-except Richthofen. "When we took off the weather was just clearing. It had been bad. Still there was some haze and fog. "We took off and climbed to an altitude of 12,000 feet heading to the southern end of our sector. In about 30 minutes we reached this position and bumped into these aircraft and got tangled with them. "Everybody was mixed up. I never saw so many German triplanes in my life! I got right in the middle of 'em. "They were all pulling in and out, circling around, but no one crashed into another. It's one of those things of fate that happened, destiny or something, but all of us got away with it. Everyone came back except Baron von Richthofen. "I broke off because there were so many after me and some of the other Camels. I was a couple of thousand feet above Brown and May. I noticed that Brown came in to make a pass at the red triplane. The red triplane was chasing Lt. May low, over our lines along the Somme River. I could see Brown's tracer bullets hitting the red triplane in and around the cockpit area. "I was above and to the left. Brown made his pass and pulled up in a climbing turn to the left. In doing so his right wing blanked out his view of the red triplane. It was about 25 to 30 seconds later that the red triplane seemed to slow down and make a shallow turn to the right and glide down." During the battle May, following orders, had been staying at 12,000 feet but could not resist temptation. Several times German planes in the dogfight below zoomed back up near his position. On one such occasion, May disregarded his orders and dove on a German plane. His dive took him right down into the middle of the fight and his guns had jammed. Realizing he was in real trouble he spun down lower, flattened out over the Somme River and headed for home, recalls LeBoutillier. That was when the triplane that had been milling around in the fight spotted May's Camel and took out after him, says LeBoutillier, chased by Brown. He made his pass on the red triplane near the town of Vaux. "When Richthofen's plane passed over the 53rd Battery it made, more or less, a flat turn, wobbled a bit, then glided to the ground. From all reports, it's a good possibility that von Richthofen was dead before his plane hit the ground." LeBoutillier says he dropped from 2,000 feet to around 300 feet, witnessed Richthofen's last minute in the air, and returned to his base. It was not until hours later that he and others of his squadron knew that the pilot of the red triplane was Germany's ace of aces, Rittmeister Cavalry Capt. Baron Manfred von Richthofen. News Journal - Sunday, October 25, 1970
No matter what ace you are, there'will be the day being shot down. Law of statistics. No One is invulnerable. Although he was very good in what he achieved, the day came. There's always someone with capabilities and luck.
All these men never met each other. They didn't know each other. Yet the shot and killed each other. If they had met, they may have become friends. War is a horrible, horrible thing. The evil must stop.
foolish humans..when will they learn?..in truth,were all the SAME'''we all come the same SOURCE...killing someone its like you cutting off your own hand off ...you would never do that!!...IGNORANCE of our true nature and the dreadful false EGO causes all the suffering and pain on this planet FOOLS fighting other ignorant FOOLS we must learn our true nature..and EVOLVE! before we completely obliterate each other
all these theories how the red baron died is fascinating. another fascinating note is that the fokker triplane was incredibly difficult to fly. u had to be strong and very experienced to fly that sensitive maneuverable aircraft so it was to my surprise that the red baron was able to land that difficult aircraft. the fokker triplane was more dangerous to land and lead to alot of deaths. so the baron had to been alive to land the aircraft. i think the baron died from ground fire. just my opinion. unfortunately, the plane was shed to pieces not from the crash but from the ground soldiers who stole parts of the triplane for trophies and nostalgia. so no one will ever know where the bullet holes hit the triplane. still, love the fokker triplane.
I read a German troop report that they saw him go down in no man's land, stood watching on a trench, and were infuriated when Allied soldiers descended across the ground to dispatch him, they thought. It was a long time ago so I do not have the source. However, I also believe he was perfectly healthy when landing his plane. He had to do this several times in his career when his prop broke and he had to land and wait for an airdrop of a prop by his associates.
@@JB-uj3qm It was originally thought that the Baron was killed by Canadian Sopwith Camel pilot Roy Brown. Years later credit was given to Aussie machine gunners on the ground.
Sopwith Camels were extremely difficult to fly because the crankshaft is mounted to the airplane and the cylinders spin around with the propeller for better cooling.
Crediting the downing of Richthofen by a pilot wasn't surprising because fliers had become national obsession and the press were all but the propaganda arm of those involved. The shift towards the skies once aircraft began to fight each other stirred the imagination where those dying on the ground had become faceless. Indeed the stalemate-slaughter was the reality that even the best prose couldn't hide yet in the air it those that fought were almost from another age was like knights jousting and Govts. wanted its distractions. Even when Zepplins were still invincible over Britian for a time bringing one down was almost a national madness that when it happened church bells peeled. Having Richthofen being killed by ground fire was the strongest likelihood but his myth as being untouchable in the air had to be unraveled even if untrue...
13:00 Clear to the end of the first quarter of the 21st Century. Even though the second quarter of the 21st century is still in the future, I'm willing to bet it will still be relevant until we stop fighting wars. His book is still fully relevant.
Didn't have to be a machine gun. Could have been an ordinary Soldier with a 303 rifle. The Baron had been shot before in the head and also landed his Plane
That was below the belt to suggest that Brown's reticence re: the 1930s investigation was due to a desire to "protect [his] reputation." Everything that is known about him as a combat leader (exemplary) and a man (unassuming by nature) would suggest that that was not what was animating him at the time. These "professional" "TV" productions can really suck in comparison with the best RUclipsrs out there. Bye bye TV productions......
The “professional TV productions,” at least those of this quality, have scripts written by actual historians. They are not an amateur’s take on history or particularly have an ideological or philosophical axe to grind.
6:30 Fair enough, but you enemy can't exploit that advantage if he doesn't have that heavy machine gun. And if you have a means to damage his airplane to the point it stops flying, and he doesn't, who has the advantage then?
the Red Baron's Pilot's seat is located at the Royal Canadian Military Institute in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, University Avenue a few doors up from the American Embassy.
When i was in grade school there was a boy ,last name walldorf that for show and tell day brought to class a piece of fabric torn from the plane of the red barron
Hello... A good read is the "Eighth Sea" by Frank Courtney. He was an RFC pilot that was shot down by Immelmann and lived to tell the tale. The famous "Immelmann Turn" was BS according to him as the Fokker E1 was too under-powered to pull a half-loop and roll. Courtney observed Immelmann dive in for a burst from the rear then pull into a high banking turn away immediately. Apparently to be out of range from an observer/gunner while Immelmann assessed whether he'd shot down his adversary or not. The great Immelmann repeated this maneuver a couple of times before he managed to shoot Courtney down. Also, Courtney calls BS on Fokker inventing the interrupter gear. Courtney also worked for Morane-Saulnier before the war and claims that Garros' ship not only contained the deflector plates on the prop but also the unsuccessful interrupter gear that Saulnier was trying out. Fokker was a notorious self-promoter gaming the accomplishments of others and subordinates into his own mythology of genius.
I would suspect that an Eindekker would be quite capable of a half ( or full ) loop provided it gained sufficient speed in a dive before pulling up into the loop. Your analysis of Fokker himself is quite apt !
May was chasing Manfred's cousin on his first combat flight. Neither rookie, May or Wolfram, were supposed to initiate combat as newbies, but somehow, May got behind Wolfram, and Manfred went after May. Brown, seeing someone was after his rookie, joined the chase. Why did Manfred get so low? A head of steam, and a head injury the previous July.... not great judgment. Uncharacteristic! Especially for the Red Baron.
It has been proven an Aussie shot him down. The plane to the rear could not shoot him from the side and the machine gunner was on the other side of the plane from entry wound the Aussies were on the correct side and the correct angle. This story about Richtoffen being hit on his right side while they were swerving from left to right has caused the problems with the id of the shooter.
@@infinitecanadian The Barron was shot through the heart from the front, not from above and behind which is the only way he was hit by the British plane flying above and behind. There was a reason why the British wanted the public to think he was shot by one of their pilots. Publicity!
Out of his 80 kills 79 were scored against British or British Empire aircraft. Only 1 lone Belgian pilot flying a Spad-7, victory 78 interrupted his string of British antagonists. Interesting.
Greed killed the Boron! A chain of mistakes followed his choice to enjoy another easy kill. Meanwhile his brother the other Von Richthofen was residing in Denver Colorado
This video has 2 minutes & 27 seconds cut out. There is an HD, better quality upload of this video running for 48:23 Dogfight - The Mystery of the Red Baron (Full Documentary) | Timeline ruclips.net/video/8T231q0iRjw/видео.html
Its possible the Red Baron fell on the sword .The Kaiser was using The Red Baron to boost the spirits of the troops in the trenches so they would charge. In Fact towards the end The Red Baron and his squadron would fly over the trenches and the troops would charge . The Red Baron hated that terrible slaughter .
A verdade é que a quem deram crédito de sua morte era novato e não teve nenhum grande feito nem antes nem depois disso, ganhou uma fama sem sentido, no dia Manfred não estava bem como vinha a dias pelo antigo ferimento na cabeça que o deixava atordoado de dores e vertigens e fez o que ele mesmo dizia para não fazer, ele dizia que não queria viver por viver e acabar seus feitos em vão, na minha opinião o dia que ele foi abatido fez de propósito como se ele mesmo tivesse procurado a morte.
The Red Baron hunted and died being hunted. The AIF soldier was very good to pick a clean shot opportunity to stamp his trade. I take nothing but courage from the Squadron Leader who had tasked the Red Baron to a fight and then, die.
However, the Red Baron was not a butcher... which cannot be said of the Central Bankers of The City of London who provoked and financed this terrible war Primarily because they wanted a new Zionist state manufactured in Palestine.
Much has been written about the German aces of both world wars , But do they deserve the accolades given them. One RFC squadron in the final year of the war never lost a plane in combat. It must also be noted that Richtofen rarely flew without being accompanied with his circus, and liked to keep on his side of the lines.
Most German pilots did the same. Voss was highly respected by the British because he was one of the few German pilots who flew over Allied lines, often alone.
At a ratio of 10 british planes to one german plane, that kind of dogfights would get all the flying circus shot down. Germany was already lost, its factory workers and their families starving, its army only extending the inevitable end.
I believe the narrative explained that Captain Brown had been pressured by his superiors to remain quiet on the subject. I did not know this prior to seeing this video and I always believed that he had personally insisted that he had made the fatal shot. I cannot blame him for doing his duty as a military man and following his orders. I do however think that he should have made a clean breast of things before his death. I personally would not want to go to the grave knowing that I might be the bearer of stolen valor. If his honor was as unblemished, as his record would suggest, (and I have no reason to doubt it) he should have at very least left a letter or something behind to tell his own view of the event for the historical record.
Good points, but Brown died early, in about 1944 (heart attack, I think), and no serious investigations, forensic, ballistic and otherwise, would begin until the 1960s. I believe that it is most probable that Brown actually did assume that, at least probably, HE had in fact hit the Baron with one of his rounds. His own report stated, "inconclusive." And yes, you are right, he was ordered by his superior(s) in the then-new RAF (an amalgam of the RFC and RNAS) to make the claim, and so he did as ordered. Also, he led a VERY quiet life after the war, and NEVER sought fame or profit from his supposed feat. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for your interesting post/perspective.
@@britishamerican4321 And thank YOU for the additional information. I didn't know that Capt. Brown died so young and unexpectedly. I'm sure he would have felt that he had time to sort things out and perhaps he actually would have contributed more to the story had he lived longer.
@@douglapointe6810 I agree. I was really angered by the program's snide insinuation. They obviously hadnt bothered to look into Brown's context or his qualities as a man.
How ironic that it was his last day of combat before leaving the front. The wind shifted to opposite and his right machine gun jammed. Kinda sounds like destiny or fate, if you believe in that sort of thing.
Many affirm Providential intervention... However, the meaning is not always immediately clear. For an Ace to die in battle assures his best remembrance. He was permitted 80 victories against an opponent (U.K.) who, truth be told, was not only the aggressor - but also shamefully tricked the USA into its war, when the USA clearly had no moral reason for such engagement.
Not when the Baron turned around to head home. The wind was out of the East and the Baron's speed was reduced flying into the wind. It could also be said that it was one lucky shot because only one round hit the airplane and killed the Baron.
@@johnadams5489 just a quick correction to my comment: never heard about the change in the prevailing wind before; it usually worked in the germans favour: I should have made it clear that I was refering in particular to the shooting down of R. but as you say one fortunate / unfortunate bullet...... But the legend is still very much alive!
I thought Snoopy did it. LOL. All kidding aside, I had read it was one of the Australians. They just said it was Brown because that sounded "better" for morale
Thank you for mentioning Australian troops separately. Too often we are lumped in with the word "British". We appreciate it down here.
Canadians as well
One of my grandmother's brothers was one of you 'Australians', he had gone to Australia to seek his fortune, he came back with the Australian troops & rescued a man from a burning aircraft, however they gave a medal to his officer, his mates weren't having that & kicked up a fuss until he was given a medal.
They are all lost to time ;as will we in years to come .the Past never happened an the future is not real
WHAT is going on with these RUclips threads??? When I click on the blue "view reply" tab, what opens up repeatedly is nothing but blank space, and the avatar of the poster is absent. This is happening all of the time, with all kinds of different video threads. It can say "18 replies" in the blue field, and not a one shows up. Could it be my computer, or is there a glitch in RUclips? That many posters can't possibly be deleting their replies, and it only happens with the replies, never the original comments. I am obviously logged into my Google account or I wouldn't be able to post this comment.
Any explanations?
Executed by firing squad on land, the truth will emerge one day,
On the Battlefield, you can beat a few of the Pilots most of the time, or beat more of the Pilots a few times, BUT you simply should never try to beat Snoopy.
Ppm
Dis
I think that was a cartoon creature.... Not a part of History.
@@jeffreyhagelin3672 Say what? Snoopy didn't fly his doghouse in WWI?
@@peteywheatstraws4909 yeah he did!! 183 confirmed kills
My grandfather told us about his dogfight with the Red baron, he was always angry at people who said that the Baron was a blood thirsty murderer, my grandfather explained that his gun had jammed and the Red Baron saw him banging his gun and realised it was jammed and waved my grandfather on and flew away from my grandfather and let him live. By the way I'm almost 60 yoa
That's cool as hell. I would wear that with pride. Yeah, that was back before guerrilla combat, back when chivalrous combat was still the aim. Enemies or not, they fought with honor. Its like the Christmas battle where they stopped fighting and both sides sang Christmas carols to the same God. Gave them perspective.
WOW!! Thats amazing and extremely interesting!! If you don't mind sharing, what was your Grandfathers'name and Squadron, and, the date of your Grandfather's encounter with Von Richthofen? An encounter like your Grandfthers' deserves to be documented!! 👍
Holy shit😮
That’s amazing. Who was your grandfather?
Bullshit lol
'I Am 81 and Remember hearing that an Ozziie soldier on the ground shot him. I was around 12 years old then.
True but britains wouldnever admit it was a infantryman who shot They desperately were in search of ahero so a flyer was needet a pilot been in the air that day would be the absolutebest choice!
This documentary contains more information on the death of Von Richtofen than any other I've seen. Great work. Thank you.
Z 12
Look for a more recent Discovery Channel episode, has bit more information. If memory serves, the Baron had suffered a head injury prior to being shot down.
Very well explained, particularly all the different aircraft and progression of the aircraft, over those 4 years, on both sides. Enjoyed very much
🎶 "10, 20, 30, 40, 50 or more... the bloody Red Baron was running up the score. Eighty men died just to end that streak of the bloody Red Baron of Germany!" 🎶 As a kid I loved stories of the Red Baron and the new knights of the air in the early days of air combat. As an adult I am awed and amazed at the bravery of those early flyers in planes that were barely more than Orville and Wilbur Wright's prototype compared to the marvels of technology of today.
The Royal Guardsmen...I had that 45 as a kid
Probably more than 80, since some were two-seaters.
Me too! Even Charlie Brown's Snoopy got in on that brief craze about WW1 pilots in the 60s. I saw the movie "The Blue Max" on the big screen at that time also and was so fascinated with that stuff.
"Eighty men died just to end that SPREE....of the bloody Red Baron of Germany!" Get it right! LOL
Can one imagine the sheer terror of being shot in the chest, knowing you are dying, yet, fighting to stay alive, and, functional, while flying an Airplane ??
I was cruising about 65mph years ago one summer day on my motorcycle wearing only a tank top, jeans, boots & helmet. A bumblebee hit me in the center of the chest. I saw him coming at me head-on. Still haven't figured out how his stinger embedded so deep. Without the stinger, it would have still hurt quite a lot. I was momentarily (4 or 5 sec) stunned. I honestly thought about what it must feel like to be shot and trying to keep a plane under control. I've been hit through the years several times by small debris and hard shell bugs, even stung on the face by a yellow jacket before going face shield and full-face helmet, but that bumblebee really lit me up that day. How horrible it would be to be shot and still trying to keep it together!
@@kennethwood3984 Just a respectful comment from myself, being an ER/ICU MD / Military Dr., but also an avid ATV / biker couple decades ago:
*I was also running a quad cycle quite fast when a wasp hit / stung me right in the sternum area. Felt even worse than a bullet strike. (Yup!; I've had a couple, while in service).
*I have seen many fighters / soldiers hit, during combat. Most 'torso area' hits, tend to disable the fighter in a matter of seconds, even if the wound is not fatal.
Several others, specifically firearm leg wounds from afar, (Not compromising bone integrity), were sometimes unnoticed until several minutes later, though.
Balls of steel!
Total commitment.
Probably a sucking chest wound
Something I learned the other day
The Baron von Richthoffens’ brother was an ace as well , with 40 plus victories.
Manfred had 80 plus victories .
lothar
Yeah! Lothar was known as the reckless Richthofen. He was also an excellent shot, and had more 'kills' for the amount of time in the air, but: he spent a LOT of time in hospital. The guy racked up some injuries.
Why the crap soundtrack? Guess it’s normal these days, but that doesn’t mean it’s not damn annoying!
Red Barons great nephew had a mansion inDenver. The Von Richthofen family crest displayed above the entry gate. A fund raiser was held there many years ago. A flying replica of the Barons red triplane was parked on the front drive.
None of the early pilots stood a chance against the fighter ace known simply as Snoopy. With his droopy ears he was a force to be reckoned with.
He made the same mistake Mannock and Luke made. He flew too low over enemy trenches and was a good target for infantry fire and machine guns. Those World War I fighters were not known for durability and the pilots were unprotected and exposed. He was too fixated on his target and probably didn't know how low he was, or that he was over Australian infantrymen with machine guns. Even the greatest pilots can make a mistake, especially after years of arduous combat duty.
Agree with everything you say. There is also evidence that at least one, if not both, of his guns jammed. From the ground it's not hard to hit a plane with a machine gun when it's only 100 yards over your head. Especially when the plane makes a U-turn to give you a second shot, so to speak. Sgt. Popkin fired and missed the first time, he didn't miss the second...
These events occurred just 105 years ago.
Incredible how much progress military aviation has made since then.
incredible progress: yet the rules are still the same.
Great video. Analytical and accurate reconstruction of events from some noted WW1 aviation historians.
I only knew of the Red Baron through Snoopy's imaginary shootouts with him. Didn't really give it much thought for a long time until I grew to be interested in history. It's quite interesting to know Sparky (that's Schultz btw) knew about Von Richtofen, but Sparky liked history. He must have known about this debate over who actually shot down the Red Baron too since Snoopy *never* won against him.
Twenty years ago, I leafed through a coffee-table format book about this subject.
The author left no doubt that ground fire was what had killed the Baron.
But, in truth, what killed him was the fact that the Red Baron was now longer the man he once had been.
He had killed enough men to affect the hardest of hearts, and he had only recently escaped death by millimeters.
He was in the grip of what we now call P.T.S.D.
Now he acted like the greenest of raw recruits.
And it killed him...
It's been more or less proved that it was an Australian gunner on the ground who fired the shot to the barons chest that killed him,,not captain brown who most people believed he brought him down..But to be honest,,it was manfrieds own fault that he died that day,,he broke all his own rules to chase after an inexperienced allied pilot who he thought was about to be his 81st kill..He broke away from the dog fight to pursue the lone allied plane,,and chased him for a while and he was flying very low to the ground over the Somme valley...All those flyers were very brave men and they all had high respect for each other no matter which side they fought for
It’s believed that by this point in the war von Richthofen had developed the “thousand yard stare” common to “battle fatigue” or PTSD, especially from loosing so many comrades during the war, and that this and his existing battle injury contributed both to a sense of fatalism and his poor judgement on his part and ultimately his death. There is nothing glorious about war. Most of those who glorify war have never seen battle or death up close and personal. My paternal grandfather who volunteered early saw action as part of the 82nd All American division of the American Expeditionary Force would never discuss the war with anyone. I don’t know what my maternal grandmother’s boyfriend experienced during WW I . He was killed.in action in France not long after arriving in Europe. She mourned him the rest of her life.
Proved? How so?
The Canadian pilots and Aussie ground gunners teamed up to kill him.
@@mckessa17 Good riddance to the bastard.
@@infinitecanadian Ridiculous and poor judgment...war is a nasty affair. There is NO bastard just poor soul killing others poor soul...
Wilfrid "Wop" May became a legendary Bush pilot, made one of the most famous mercy flights, delivering Diphtheria vaccine to a remote northern outpost in winter and helped track down the Mad Trapper from the air and flew a shot up RCMP to a doctor from the wilderness. He is an Officer of the Order of the British Empire, DSC, Medal of Freedom from the USA and,
On October 6, 2004, NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity located a rock on the south slope of the Endurance Crater on Mars. The 1 metre (3.3-foot) rock was given the name "wopmay" after the legendary Canadian bush pilot
@@thewolf3889 He was Canadian, he was flying with Brown
@@thewolf3889 no, his fame came later
@@thewolf3889 May was the pilot being chased by the Red Baron. ruclips.net/video/Bv5T4-L4gfU/видео.html
Stomping Tom sang a song about Wop May.
If it had been Brown, then the bullet would have hit the Baron square in his back at heart level, killing him instantly. He wouldn't have been alive at all by the time the soldiers arrived. The bullet clearly entered him from the right side, which means that it couldn't have been Brown.
more to the controversial side, how do we actually know if it was him flying that plane when it was finally taken down... I mean think about it, 2 days from going home and now he decides to break the rules of his mentor and himself as a pilot? on his 80-81 kill now he decides to tunnel vision and pull a rookie mistake? what if that wasn't him in that iconic red plane that got shot down and was actually being piloted by a replacement acting on his behalf. he probably thought he was invincible inside the plane of the "Red Baron" and figured he could just chase the enemy plane as much as he wanted and just return to his buddies after getting the kill... I know this is kinda bullshit, I'm just saying that it can't be that big of a coincidence, I mean seriously, this is the best pilot of ww1, trained by the former best pilot of ww1, with a personal record of 80 confirmed kills... do you really think he would go and pull something that risky and amateur, going against everything his mentor had taught him, 2 days from his "scheduled" leave?
The video said that Brown was not directly behind him but coming out of dive. It is quite possible perhaps probable it was the Vickers. That said it was a single bullet to an aircraft that was not flying straight and level. In addition that claims of Browns response have long been answered differently to the claims of the video. Brown was quite ill at the time and was well known to not make an issue of kills. What is described in the video could be applied to his other kills. Brown's great pride was that he never lost a single member from his flight. These kinds of analysis are always interesting but I won't bet the house on them.
Brown in no way hit the Baron, what they are not telling you Brown's friend came to see him the night before. Brown had dysentery, running a low fever and combat fatigue, had a hard time getting to sleep and was about to be pulled out of combat for leave. Brown's friend got a promises that he would not fly until he went on leave, Brown like the Baron pushed himself to beyond the limit of most people and would fly the next morning patrol. This is also not factored into any of the any recreations of the battle, and non have shown Brown scoring a hit on the Baron already, adding in the other factors Brown missed wide right, as shown in the recreations; this alerted the Baron you turned to the left a little; as what happened in real life. The Baron is hit by ground fight in less than the next 5 minutes; lands the plane; throwing his goggles off as the plane rolls to hard stop and says to the solder coming up "Kaput," his wound gave him at best 30 seconds to live. He landed as he did not want to burn in his plane as he had seen so many others die.
@@kasper7574 well he was hit in the head some time before. which could have caused a trauma. it is one possabilitiy that is plausible...
@@kasper7574 even more controversial take: a Mormon missionary from the US talked to his mother years after WWI, and she told him that there was a mechanic that admitted that he ruined the Baron's plane (he didn't make a rookie mistake, some of the gears of his plane fell off) because Herman Göring blackmailed the mechanic. The mechanic told the Baron's mother that Göring knew he would be one of two candidates to replace the Baron when he died, which is why he did what he did. (There's also a story of what happened to Göring's rival to take over the Flying Circus, but that's another thing)
I apologize the Red Barons Onkel lived in Denver Colorado USA 🇺🇸 Baron Walter Von Richthofen lived in a castle there 🏰. Still a private residence
What is an "Onkel"?
@@Species5008 uncle in English I admire people who can understand our language with just a few errors as opposed to American citizens who can speak only English. Time for us as Americans to learn a new language blessings to you and yours sir.
The funeral at the end says he was given a military respectful funeral & 21 gun salute by allied soldiers..true...but..THEY ARE ALL AUSTRALIAN SOLDIERS....absolutely he was shot down by an Australian machine gunner
Also..if u can visit the Australian war memorial in canberra(fascinating regardless of the red barron)..there are pieces of the barons plane on view.
The controversy is that it has taken so long to get to the facts..as the Australians just got on with the war & went interested in headline hunting but still had time to give a respectful send off to an equally deserving adversary
Just because he was given a funeral by Australian soldiers doesn't mean that he was shot down by an Australian machine gunner. Come now, are you serious?
@@infinitecanadian you r not still clinging to the Canadian flier.snoopy r u
If you study the troop layout..aussie & Canadian soldiers had a far gap between them
@@jeffuren6942 But just because the Australians gave him a funeral is proof of nothing.
@@infinitecanadian the war has been over for 104 years....no need F2f or any more debate...go back to your collection of teapots
@@jeffuren6942 Oh, so you are backing down? Good to know someone who is man enough to do that.
I wonder where all the memorabila ended up? In somebodies' great grandfathers attic? Destroyed during the war? Unrecognized in a dumpster?
All of the above
A lot of his personal effects were stolen off his body, his last airplane - the red tripe - was cannibalized for souvenirs in a matter of minutes by troops on the ground , his trophies back at the Richthofen estate were confiscated by the communist Russians after WWII when they took that area and have yet to be returned or accounted for.
His boots and ‘stick’ (ie steering wheel) are in Australian War Memorial in Canberra
Bits of his plane made it back to Australia
What a magnificent portrayal of events. The final analysis brings another wreath of honour to von Richthofen: that he did NOT lose the dogfight, and his death was a consequence of something more
mundane - groundfire.
I am very moved and proud that the Allies gave von Richthofen a hero’s burial. Honour to a brave foe. ❤️
Wow Charles Schults knew that Snoopy really did shoot down The Red Baron.
Sentiment well said.👍totally agree with you. NM
Excellent documentary - thanks for posting!
The Baron had to have known the dangers in flying so low over the Allied trenches. So many airplanes are brought down by ground fire in every war, World War I was no exception. Surely von Richthofen knew that he was taking a huge risk by pursuing the British pilot for as long and for as far as he did. And surely he was aware that his own aircraft, painted in it's distinctive colors, would have been a very prominent target. Perhaps he just couldn't give up his last chance at one last kill, and it proved his undoing.
He was too focused on his target. May often joked that the Red Baron couldn't get a bead on him because he (May) flew so badly.
Target fixation
He was also chasing the guy that was chasing his own cousin on his maiden combat fight--Wolfram von Richthofen, whom Manfred told to stick by him. Why would he make such a decision?? The dude was chasing his rookie cousin!
Thanks for this outstanding and informative documentary
I'll tell you one thing If I had to do what they did back in the day in those airplanes I would have been drunk every time I took off At least your nerves would be OK.🍺🍺🍺
It was a proper way for an ace to go down ....ground fire. Most attack Pilots fear ground fire more than other Pilots . It was the only way they could bring him down.
The French pilot who was shot out of the air from the clock tower was the same story... he couldn't be bested one-on-one so they had to trick him... they knew he checked that clock at 1 p.m. every mission so they put a canon in the tower
A noble Fate to know no-one bested you one-on-one
Albert Ball RFC?
Stolen Valor is nothing new as evidenced by the pilot who let the world think he shot down the Red Baron. Those pilots who flew WW1 planes were courageous young men whose love of country, honor, and adventurous spirit trumped any fear they may have had.
To be fair to Brown, he did fire on the Red Baron and had some reason to believe he had been the one to shoot him down. It was years before it was proven Australian groundfire actually did it.
Imagine.These guys had no parachutes.
Why on earth is the background music so loud? Difficult to hear the commentary.
This seems to be very common these days, especially on tv. It needs to stop!
The fact that the Baron's wound was from the side indicated likelihood of a ground fire attack.
all these years I thought Snoopy was the Red Baron... who knew..
Fool, how can he be the Red Baron if he always says "Curse you Red Baron" and is flying as Sopwith Camel??? lol
I could be too late, No one else than Manfred Von Richthofen .
Are you for real?
You meam,SPY? Damn dog. Bad boy,bad!
This is what happened:
American Pilot Recalls Day Red Baron Was Shot Down
By ROBERT H. HULL
LAS VEGAS, Nev. (AP) - Oliver Colin LeBoutillier, believed to be the only living survivor of the World War I dogfight that killed famous German ace "Red" Baron Manfred von Richthofen, says today's pilots are better than the daredevils of 50 years ago.
"They have to be," says the Las Vegas businessman. "Their equipment is more sophisticated. I had 29 hours and one minute before I began flying combat in 1917 and today to get a private ticket you have to have 50 hours.
"The kids flying today have the same spirit we did. They just have better equipment," he reflects. He helped train U.S. pilots during World War II and later flew for Hollywood films.
LeBoutillier left his hometown of East Orange, N.J. to join the Canadian flying corps in 1917 to fight in France. Today he admits to being "something more than 70," is actively running a Las Vegas pharmaceutical distributing company, and recently collaborated on a book covering the controversy surrounding who killed the Red Baron.
Richthofen shot down 80 Allied planes before he himself was shot down April 21, 1918, over Allied territory in France.
LeBoutillier remembers the dogfight with absolute clarity, he says, because "it was the greatest fight of any war under any circumstances."
Noting that Australian ground forces claimed credit for killing the Baron, LeBoutillier says it could also have been his fellow pilot, Capt. Roy Brown, who strafed the baron less than a minute before the Australians began firing from the ground. The Canadian RAF officially credits Brown.
"By God, I saw Brown's tracer bullets hitting into the fuselage around the cockpit area. The baron turned his head, knew he had been fired on, and continued chasing another Canadian pilot, Lt. Wilfrid May."
LeBoutillier said Richthofen may have lost his bearings because of the dogfight in an unusual easterly wind and because he was chasing May, a green pilot flying apart from the Allied formation.
Eleven Sopwith Camels of the Allied air forces tied into 27 German planes of Richthofen's so-called Flying Circus on the famous day, says LeBoutillier.
"We all came back that day on both sides-except Richthofen.
"When we took off the weather was just clearing. It had been bad. Still there was some haze and fog.
"We took off and climbed to an altitude of 12,000 feet heading to the southern end of our sector. In about 30 minutes we reached this position and bumped into these aircraft and got tangled with them.
"Everybody was mixed up. I never saw so many German triplanes in my life! I got right in the middle of 'em.
"They were all pulling in and out, circling around, but no one crashed into another. It's one of those things of fate that happened, destiny or something, but all of us got away with it. Everyone came back except Baron von Richthofen.
"I broke off because there were so many after me and some of the other Camels. I was a couple of thousand feet above Brown and May. I noticed that Brown came in to make a pass at the red triplane. The red triplane was chasing Lt. May low, over our lines along the Somme River. I could see Brown's tracer bullets hitting the red triplane in and around the cockpit area.
"I was above and to the left. Brown made his pass and pulled up in a climbing turn to the left. In doing so his right wing blanked out his view of the red triplane. It was about 25 to 30 seconds later that the red triplane seemed to slow down and make a shallow turn to the right and glide down."
During the battle May, following orders, had been staying at 12,000 feet but could not resist temptation. Several times German planes in the dogfight below zoomed back up near his position. On one such occasion, May disregarded his orders and dove on a German plane. His dive took him right down into the middle of the fight and his guns had jammed. Realizing he was in real trouble he spun down lower, flattened out over the Somme River and headed for home, recalls LeBoutillier.
That was when the triplane that had been milling around in the fight spotted May's Camel and took out after him, says LeBoutillier, chased by Brown.
He made his pass on the red triplane near the town of Vaux.
"When Richthofen's plane passed over the 53rd Battery it made, more or less, a flat turn, wobbled a bit, then glided to the ground. From all reports, it's a good possibility that von Richthofen was dead before his plane hit the ground."
LeBoutillier says he dropped from 2,000 feet to around 300 feet, witnessed Richthofen's last minute in the air, and returned to his base. It was not until hours later that he and others of his squadron knew that the pilot of the red triplane was Germany's ace of aces, Rittmeister Cavalry Capt. Baron Manfred von Richthofen.
News Journal - Sunday, October 25, 1970
No matter what ace you are, there'will be the day being shot down. Law of statistics. No One is invulnerable. Although he was very good in what he achieved, the day came. There's always someone with capabilities and luck.
Did they think to design a 1914 or 1915 pusher propeller, dual boom type aircraft that could then easily fire machine guns forward unencumbered?
All these men never met each other. They didn't know each other. Yet the shot and killed each other. If they had met, they may have become friends. War is a horrible, horrible thing. The evil must stop.
War is necessary because men have no compassion foe each other,, try negotiating with a terrorist, tell me how that goes for you,. Kill or be killed,…
foolish humans..when will they learn?..in truth,were all the SAME'''we all come the same SOURCE...killing someone its like you cutting off your own hand off ...you would never do that!!...IGNORANCE of our true nature and the dreadful false EGO causes all the suffering and pain on this planet FOOLS fighting other ignorant FOOLS we must learn our true nature..and EVOLVE! before we completely obliterate each other
yawn....
He's my great-great cousin three times removed and twice added
I bet Kevin bacon is more related.
oh wow, now there's a bit of infomration nobody asked for and obody cares to hear but yourself
all these theories how the red baron died is fascinating. another fascinating note is that the fokker triplane was incredibly difficult to fly. u had to be strong and very experienced to fly that sensitive maneuverable aircraft so it was to my surprise that the red baron was able to land that difficult aircraft. the fokker triplane was more dangerous to land and lead to alot of deaths. so the baron had to been alive to land the aircraft. i think the baron died from ground fire. just my opinion. unfortunately, the plane was shed to pieces not from the crash but from the ground soldiers who stole parts of the triplane for trophies and nostalgia. so no one will ever know where the bullet holes hit the triplane. still, love the fokker triplane.
This has been proven by an autopsy that he was killed by land artillery
I read a German troop report that they saw him go down in no man's land, stood watching on a trench, and were infuriated when Allied soldiers descended across the ground to dispatch him, they thought. It was a long time ago so I do not have the source. However, I also believe he was perfectly healthy when landing his plane. He had to do this several times in his career when his prop broke and he had to land and wait for an airdrop of a prop by his associates.
@@JB-uj3qm It was originally thought that the Baron was killed by Canadian Sopwith Camel pilot Roy Brown. Years later credit was given to Aussie machine gunners on the ground.
Sopwith Camels were extremely difficult to fly because the crankshaft is mounted to the airplane and the cylinders spin around with the propeller for better cooling.
@@billbailey55 Talking shite 😴
Crediting the downing of Richthofen by a pilot wasn't surprising because fliers had become national obsession and the press were all but the propaganda arm of those involved. The shift towards the skies once aircraft began to fight each other stirred the imagination where those dying on the ground had become faceless. Indeed the stalemate-slaughter was the reality that even the best prose couldn't hide yet in the air it those that fought were almost from another age was like knights jousting and Govts. wanted its distractions. Even when Zepplins were still invincible over Britian for a time bringing one down was almost a national madness that when it happened church bells peeled. Having Richthofen being killed by ground fire was the strongest likelihood but his myth as being untouchable in the air had to be unraveled even if untrue...
No mystery, he was shot down by Australian soldiers firering from the ground.
13:00 Clear to the end of the first quarter of the 21st Century. Even though the second quarter of the 21st century is still in the future, I'm willing to bet it will still be relevant until we stop fighting wars.
His book is still fully relevant.
It may be Richtofen succumbed to a fatalism brought on by the pilot's version of shellshock. He had seen too much, done too much.
Actually ,,they are all past caring now,, so does it really matter? RIP , War Sucks.
And then you start in telling the whole story of military aircraft.....I'm out,,,,
Didn't have to be a machine gun. Could have been an ordinary Soldier with a 303 rifle. The Baron had been shot before in the head and also landed his Plane
That was below the belt to suggest that Brown's reticence re: the 1930s investigation was due to a desire to "protect [his] reputation." Everything that is known about him as a combat leader (exemplary) and a man (unassuming by nature) would suggest that that was not what was animating him at the time. These "professional" "TV" productions can really suck in comparison with the best RUclipsrs out there. Bye bye TV productions......
The “professional TV productions,” at least those of this quality, have scripts written by actual historians. They are not an amateur’s take on history or particularly have an ideological or philosophical axe to grind.
6:30 Fair enough, but you enemy can't exploit that advantage if he doesn't have that heavy machine gun. And if you have a means to damage his airplane to the point it stops flying, and he doesn't, who has the advantage then?
SNOOPY
Maybe, but I’d like to know if it still exists as well.
I wonder if he didn't want to survive and go home on leave? I'm sure he didn't want to be pulled out of combat while the war continued.
If he had lived ,,and became an instructor of ww11 German air force he could have changed the outcome
PTSD and getting disoriented when flying low was what did Manfred in
This ridiculous dramatization - give it a damn break! Sheesh!
It amazes me that that the arguments still persit about whose bullet brought him down. Man:s done gone.
There is no mystery He was flying low over the trenches when he was shot in the arse and killed by an Australian squaddie
the Red Baron's Pilot's seat is located at the Royal Canadian Military Institute in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, University Avenue a few doors up from the American Embassy.
When i was in grade school there was a boy ,last name walldorf that for show and tell day brought to class a piece of fabric torn from the plane of the red barron
You want your baron dead you call an australian machine gunner
I thought SNOOPY Got him
News Flash:
Most of their deaths was mysterious- what would make Richthofen different.
News Flash:
Go read and study history. Maybe you'll be able to answer your own question one day.
But I doubt it.
Ok, but damn he was good looking!!
I wonder who has his Blue Max?
Hello... A good read is the "Eighth Sea" by Frank Courtney. He was an RFC pilot that was shot down by Immelmann and lived to tell the tale. The famous "Immelmann Turn" was BS according to him as the Fokker E1 was too under-powered to pull a half-loop and roll. Courtney observed Immelmann dive in for a burst from the rear then pull into a high banking turn away immediately. Apparently to be out of range from an observer/gunner while Immelmann assessed whether he'd shot down his adversary or not. The great Immelmann repeated this maneuver a couple of times before he managed to shoot Courtney down. Also, Courtney calls BS on Fokker inventing the interrupter gear. Courtney also worked for Morane-Saulnier before the war and claims that Garros' ship not only contained the deflector plates on the prop but also the unsuccessful interrupter gear that Saulnier was trying out. Fokker was a notorious self-promoter gaming the accomplishments of others and subordinates into his own mythology of genius.
I would suspect that an Eindekker would be quite capable of a half ( or full ) loop provided it gained sufficient speed in a dive before pulling up into the loop.
Your analysis of Fokker himself is quite apt !
May was chasing Manfred's cousin on his first combat flight. Neither rookie, May or Wolfram, were supposed to initiate combat as newbies, but somehow, May got behind Wolfram, and Manfred went after May. Brown, seeing someone was after his rookie, joined the chase. Why did Manfred get so low? A head of steam, and a head injury the previous July.... not great judgment. Uncharacteristic! Especially for the Red Baron.
The aussies got the red baron.
This is really very interesting. I love this kind of history.
@J
Agree!
here t is there - Australian gunners on the ground shot down the Red Baron.
That still hasn’t been proven and may never be proven; all British machine guns used the same ammunition.
It has been proven an Aussie shot him down. The plane to the rear could not shoot him from the side and the machine gunner was on the other side of the plane from entry wound the Aussies were on the correct side and the correct angle. This story about Richtoffen being hit on his right side while they were swerving from left to right has caused the problems with the id of the shooter.
Snowy Evans is the only one who could have fired the fatal shot.
@@infinitecanadian The Barron was shot through the heart from the front, not from above and behind which is the only way he was hit by the British plane flying above and behind. There was a reason why the British wanted the public to think he was shot by one of their pilots. Publicity!
@@hx-flixblog4569 Yeah yeah yeah, same old nonsense.
Out of his 80 kills 79 were scored against British or British Empire aircraft. Only 1 lone Belgian pilot flying a Spad-7, victory 78 interrupted his string of British antagonists. Interesting.
Excellent detail, thank you
Greed killed the Boron! A chain of mistakes followed his choice to enjoy another easy kill. Meanwhile his brother the other Von Richthofen was residing in Denver Colorado
It was his time to go. No man can set his own time of death.. Thank you very much for this posting of this very interesting video...
This video has 2 minutes & 27 seconds cut out.
There is an HD, better quality upload of this video running for 48:23
Dogfight - The Mystery of the Red Baron (Full Documentary) | Timeline
ruclips.net/video/8T231q0iRjw/видео.html
Let's give credit where credit is due. Werner Voss flew the Fokker Dr-1 to its limits.
Nicely done!
Its possible the Red Baron fell on the sword .The Kaiser was using The Red Baron to boost the spirits of the troops in the trenches so they would charge. In Fact towards the end The Red Baron and his squadron would fly over the trenches and the troops would charge . The Red Baron hated that terrible slaughter .
besides music I love history, the Red Baron was another hero of mine besides my dad and Dale Earnhardt sr. He was the greatest pilot of all time.
And he was an honorable patriotic man regardless of been German
A verdade é que a quem deram crédito de sua morte era novato e não teve nenhum grande feito nem antes nem depois disso, ganhou uma fama sem sentido, no dia Manfred não estava bem como vinha a dias pelo antigo ferimento na cabeça que o deixava atordoado de dores e vertigens e fez o que ele mesmo dizia para não fazer, ele dizia que não queria viver por viver e acabar seus feitos em vão, na minha opinião o dia que ele foi abatido fez de propósito como se ele mesmo tivesse procurado a morte.
Best documentary on the subject I've listened to so far.
"Achtung! Jetzt wir singen zusammen die Geschichte
Uber dem schweinkomischen Hund und dem lieben Red Baron!" Then out comes Snoopy...
Un inmortal heroe
Y
An Aussie got him, His luck finally ran out. Tough Luck
The Red Baron hunted and died being hunted. The AIF soldier was very good to pick a clean shot opportunity to stamp his trade. I take nothing but courage from the Squadron Leader who had tasked the Red Baron to a fight and then, die.
However, the Red Baron was not a butcher...
which cannot be said of the Central Bankers of The City of London who
provoked and financed this terrible war
Primarily because they wanted a new Zionist state manufactured in Palestine.
Thumbnail looks like art of someone sticking a feather pen in their eye
I have a newspaper from the period that tells how Australians shot down the Red Baron.
Much has been written about the German aces of both world wars , But do they deserve the accolades given them. One RFC squadron in the final year of the war never lost a plane in combat. It must also be noted that Richtofen rarely flew without being accompanied with his circus, and liked to keep on his side of the lines.
Most German pilots did the same. Voss was highly respected by the British because he was one of the few German pilots who flew over Allied lines, often alone.
Popkin shot the second time at 1350 yards.
At a ratio of 10 british planes to one german plane, that kind of dogfights would get all the flying circus shot down. Germany was already lost, its factory workers and their families starving, its army only extending the inevitable end.
The comments hold a lot of additional information as well
I believe the narrative explained that Captain Brown had been pressured by his superiors to remain quiet on the subject. I did not know this prior to seeing this video and I always believed that he had personally insisted that he had made the fatal shot. I cannot blame him for doing his duty as a military man and following his orders. I do however think that he should have made a clean breast of things before his death. I personally would not want to go to the grave knowing that I might be the bearer of stolen valor. If his honor was as unblemished, as his record would suggest, (and I have no reason to doubt it) he should have at very least left a letter or something behind to tell his own view of the event for the historical record.
Good points, but Brown died early, in about 1944 (heart attack, I think), and no serious investigations, forensic, ballistic and otherwise, would begin until the 1960s. I believe that it is most probable that Brown actually did assume that, at least probably, HE had in fact hit the Baron with one of his rounds. His own report stated, "inconclusive." And yes, you are right, he was ordered by his superior(s) in the then-new RAF (an amalgam of the RFC and RNAS) to make the claim, and so he did as ordered. Also, he led a VERY quiet life after the war, and NEVER sought fame or profit from his supposed feat. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for your interesting post/perspective.
@@britishamerican4321 And thank YOU for the additional information. I didn't know that Capt. Brown died so young and unexpectedly. I'm sure he would have felt that he had time to sort things out and perhaps he actually would have contributed more to the story had he lived longer.
@@DATo_DATonian Yes I think so. He was very modest, I think, and wouldve wanted the truth to come out.
Stolen valor? He was a real ace with 10 shot down. I wouldn't accuse him of stolen valor in any case.
@@douglapointe6810 I agree. I was really angered by the program's snide insinuation. They obviously hadnt bothered to look into Brown's context or his qualities as a man.
How ironic that it was his last day of combat before leaving the front. The wind shifted to opposite and his right machine gun jammed. Kinda sounds like destiny or fate, if you believe in that sort of thing.
Many affirm Providential intervention... However, the meaning is not always immediately clear.
For an Ace to die in battle assures his best remembrance.
He was permitted 80 victories against an opponent (U.K.) who,
truth be told,
was not only the aggressor -
but also
shamefully tricked the USA into its war, when the USA clearly had no moral reason for such engagement.
Now his name is diminished to frozen pizza..
never heard about the change in the prevailing wind before; it usually worked in the germans favour.
Not when the Baron turned around to head home. The wind was out of the East and the Baron's speed was reduced flying into the wind. It could also be said that it was one lucky shot because only one round hit the airplane and killed the Baron.
@@johnadams5489 just a quick correction to my comment: never heard about the change in the prevailing wind before; it usually worked in the germans favour: I should have made it clear that I was refering in particular to the shooting down of R. but as you say one fortunate / unfortunate bullet......
But the legend is still very much alive!
Well thank you: I've been pondering how they got those bullets to miss the prop blades.
I thought Snoopy did it. LOL. All kidding aside, I had read it was one of the Australians. They just said it was Brown because that sounded "better" for morale
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