Good debate but God is not the Author of confusion. It's simple if you read the Bible yourself. Jesus is the Son of God sitting at the right hand of the Father. Easy
@Josh No, Jesus clearly has his own will. Luke 22:42 “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine be done.”
So in John 17verse 3 Jesus refers to himself as being sent by God now Jesus says in this chapter. John 13 verse 16 how true it is that a servant is not greater then his master NOR IS THE MESSENGER MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GOD WHO SENT HIM.
Questions for Trinitarians 1. The Father has a name, the Son has a name. What is the name of the Holy Spirit? 2. In Paul’s epistles, why did he leave out salutations to the Holy Spirit? 3. Why is there no conversation recorded between the Father and the Holy Spirit or the Son and the Holy Spirit? 4. Isaiah 45:21, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned in this verse? 5. Isaiah 57:15, the Father dwells only with the Son? 6. Matt 28:18-20 - Jesus commanded his disciples to baptise in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However, his disciples in the book of Acts only baptise in Jesus name. Why? 7. Revelation 22:1, why is there a seat for Jesus but no seat for the Holy Spirit at the Great White Throne? If the Father is the Son and vice versa, why is there a need for separate thrones? 8. Why John 1:1 does not mention the Holy Spirit? 9. Why was 1John 5:7 only added in AD325? This verse is not found in scriptures before that time. 10. John 5:30, John 6:38, If the Son is also the Father, why would there be 2 wills? 11. John 10:30, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned? 12. Revelation 5:7, why would God hand the book to Himself? 13. Revelation 11:15, why only mention Lord and Christ but not the Holy Ghost? 14. John 10:30, why Jesus did not include the Holy Spirit? 15. 1Cor 3:23, Christ belongs to God or Christ is God? 16. 2John 1:3, why John’s salutation also omit the Holy Spirit?
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. - 1 Corinthians 15:28
Good observation. Jesus submitted to His Father’s will. Entirely. His humility is our example to be obedient children also. Jesus surrendered from His true humanity. TO His own true Divinity n
Good observation. Jesus submitted to His Father’s will. Entirely. His humility is our example to be obedient children also. Jesus surrendered from His true humanity. TO His own true Divinity
Many scriptures from the writers were bias that's why there were 4 gospels to show that. plus many verses were added later and some earlier so deciding on the accuracy is suspect to flaws. Yes the scripture is authentic yet the writers wrote in their bias.
This is so easy to explain. God gave his only son to give us eternal life, this is what we preach. The part if Jesus is God is not what Jesus wanted us to preach.
It's clear to me, when Jesus/Messiah said to Mary "touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to..... MY GOD". (Jesus said he has a God) Also Rev 3.12 (4 more times Jesus says "My God" 📖 (it is written)
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 😊24Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone
This comment makes sense as someone who was raised in a non trinitarian church, my wife was raised a trinitarian out discussion regarding this topic are heated but respectful lol
@@Zipfreer The branch of gnostics that I'm familiar with denied that Jesus had flesh because they believed material existence to be evil and their God would not have any part in it. That's why St. Ignatius in the 1st/2nd century constantly reaffirmed the incarnation, death and resurrection against them in his letters.
Jesus is the " Son of the Living God"- Matthew 16:16. If Jesus speaks about " union" or " becoming one", it means " following the same lifestyle , just as Jesus did." See John 17:20-23; 14:6,12
So many Trinitarian Christians will use the verse to verify the Trinity: The Father and I are one" and also " When you see me you have seen the Father." Wonder why they don't respond with: The Father, I and the Holy Spirit are one" and When you see me you have seen the Father and..... the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit is the third member of the Trinity why is he left out of the equation so often??Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Holy Trinity comprise of three coequal, coeternal "Persons" Distinct, but ONE???? Do I have the definition wrong.
Add to that (the oneness of God the Father and Jesus), John 17: 20-26… “that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” Does this mean we’ll all be absorbed into them, to become one with them? (Hmm, that would turn trinitarian into trillitarian - trillions of us as one God; forgive me if that’s sacrilegious; just trying to make a point). This scripture seems to clarify God and Jesus as separate beings with one purpose … a purpose that we’re to adopt so that we may become one with them - one in love, in mercy, and in striving to see all people and things thru their eyes…
Here it is,Now dig..The Truth About the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit 00:0007:13 PEOPLE who believe the Trinity teaching say that God consists of three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each of these three persons is said to be equal to the others, almighty, and without beginning. According to the Trinity doctrine, therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there is only one God. Many who believe the Trinity admit that they are not able to explain this teaching. Still, they may feel that it is taught in the Bible. It is worth noting that the word “Trinity” never occurs in the Bible. But is the idea of a Trinity found there? To answer this question, let us look at a scripture that supporters often cite to uphold the Trinity. “THE WORD WAS GOD” John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (King James Version) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. (John 1:14) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God. Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” (A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” (The New Testament in an Improved Version) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” (The Translator’s New Testament) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. * Instead, because of his high position among Jehovah’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.” GET MORE FACTS Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion. For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God. CONFIRM THE FACTS Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God? Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows? As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.-Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15.
George Mason INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPAEDIA: "The doctrine of the Trinity did not form part of the Apostles' preachings, as this is reported in the New Testament" (First Edition, Vol. 18, Page 226). NEW INTERNATIONAL STANDARD BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA: "Theterm 'Trinity' was originated by ... Tertulian, a Roman Catholic church father. No record of the Trinitarian formula can be discovered in the Acts of the Apostles... At the time of the Reformation, the Protestant Church took over the doctrine of the Trinity without serious examination" (Vol. 1, Page 396). NEW CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: "With regard to the form used for Baptism in the early church, there is the difficulty that although Matthew (28:19) speaks of the Trinitarian formula, which is now used, the Acts of the Apostles (2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5) and Paul (I Corinthians 1:13; 6:11; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3) speak only of Baptism 'in the Name of Jesus.' Baptism in titles cannot be found in the first centuries..." (McGraw Hill Publishing, Page 59).
Where in the bible does it say you will be saved for confessing that Jesus is God? All who declare that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God. 1John 4:15
22:28 - I could not resist the temptation to respond to this point. White says that we "can't start with the presupposition of Unitarianism and" enforce it upon the text, but that's exactly what Christians do when they read the Tanakh. They enforce a Trinitarian presupposition on a "Unitarian document" without letting the text instruct them. Brown says that it was a perfectly natural Jewish position to believe in the complex unity of God (Minute 34:12), but then quotes (Minute 48:17) John 5:18, in which the Jewish audience wanted to kill Jesus. If Jews had a natural predisposition to believing in the plurality of God, why did they want to kill Jesus?
I know I am late, but one answer to your last question would be: those Jews didn't believe a man could be God. Incarnation and Plurality-of-God are two different things.
Because Jesus wasn't wat they expected black man talkn bout he is who uve been waiting on, remember, they where and are waiting on a king of kings he was born in the slums praise Jesus
I have a few questions for Trinitarians: If indeed there is a Trinity and all are equal, where in the Bible is it said or even suggested that the Holy Spirit is to be worshiped or in any way equal to Yahweh? I can see how the confusion/lack of understanding of the person of Yeshua is derived, but isn't it clear why the argument for the Trinity never tries to equate the Holy Spirit with God? And if one part of the so called Trinity is not equal, doesn't that just throw a spanner in the whole theory?
Matthew 28:19 when we're told to baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. To be baptized into God is what the verse is about. If Jesus and the Spirit are not God, then we are being baptized into "the One true God.. and a created being, and a presence of God" essentially. putting the latter two persons in the same sentence as God, if the two are not God, doesn't makes sense.
@dee mark 5:7 read verse Matthew 28:18 all authority have been given to me- given meaning he doesn’t have authority without the Father GIVING it them … 1 Corinthians 15 says Jesus presents perfected creation to the Father so THE FATHER may be all in all
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 11:3 Trinitarians say they are three in one God and equal but the Scriptures say otherwise.
56:22 A better example would be that if a king wants to build a castle, he will commission and assign builders but in the end, it was the king who built the castle. The builders would get praised as having done a wonderful job but everyone would say and agree that the king built it including the builders even though we know that technically it was built by the hands of the builders.
God is in control. His plans always come true. This issue is one of a few that show who is a true follower of Christ, and who is following Satan yet believe they are in the light.
The debate is interesting. The men represented here are excellent. My comment is simply to have another debate where these same men address where the Trinity (word) came from. Who brought the doctrine into the church? Were these men strictly bible believers or were they philosophers? A debate on the historical origin of said teaching would settle the debate once and for all. Trading scripture back and forth is entertaining, but it does not resolve the real issue. Peace.
This was a very good debate. My question is of Jesus is an Agent or representative of God then why would he share a throne with an agent of his in heaven and have all creation worship his agent rather than himself as God?
He is his Son. He is the heir to the Throne. But since the Father can not die, Jesus will live for eternity under his Father. He is the ertenal Prince of Peace. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. - 1 Corinthians 15:28
@HeroOfChristArchives Do you even understand the quote? Jesus said he receive command from The father, which means he does not have same rights as the Father. If you say The Father is God Almighty and Jesus pbuh is the Messiah and messenger of god who create miracles with the spirit of God like Jonah pbuh, then the quote make sense. If you insist Jesus is god almighty, it does not fit the quote.
The Messiah, as God, was distinguishing between His relationship with the Father and His disciples’ relationship with the Father as adopted human creatures (Jn.1:12-13). Simonline 🤔🙏😀👍
@@simonline1194 When you write "the Messiah, as God...", you are literally saying "the anointed one of God, as God..." or "the man anointed by God, as God..."
If there is a trinity, and the father is the father of the son, why does the Holy Ghost overshadow Mary, and impregnate her. Wouldn't that make the Holy Ghost the father? If that is so, why does the father get to claim fathership of the son when the Holy Ghost is clearly the father of the son, so who does the son call father. Yet later on Jesus says I and my father are one, and when you have seen me you have seen the father. Sounds like a bunch of confusion to me. I'm glad I know that Jesus is none other than God Almighty, manifest in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Kimberly H You're right, God is in us. Both Jesus and the Father are in us. John 4:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word. Then my Father will love him, *and we* will go to him and make our home within him.
Son of God doesnt mean that he is God. Its a common used phrase. People can say they are son of God. That makes sense becuase God made us. We are his creation.
So if Moses uses the staff to spit the red sea did the staff do it? Did Moses do it, or did God do it. The clear answer is that Moses did it only through he power of God. For thine is the kingdom, The POWER and the glory.
just because Jesus pre existed with God befor the creation of this world, how does this proove that he is God the father? He maintained that the Father was and is greater than he. It seems to me that Jesus is the offspring of God and always was. He is by the choice of God our father from everlasting to everlasting , always was always will be. I have no problem with that but the father will in my opinion always be greater than the son. comments?
no where in the entire old testament do you get anything trinitarian. on the contrary, over and over and over again, the old testament repeatedly states GOD IS ONE, and there is NONE else besides him. "Hear O Israel YHWH is our god, YHWH is ONE. Even the new testament itself never gets you to a clear trinity. God, "the father," is always contrasted to, and being supreme above, Jesus, the son.
*Does trinitarian believe in 3 persons which are physical beings or 2 are physical and 1 is spiritual or do they believe that all 3 are seperate entities.*
You say that 70 people saw God... yet no-one can see God and live? So who did they see? John 1 explains "no-one has ever seen God, but the one and only God who is at the Father's side has made him known". How does 1 John 5:7 prove tampering. Surely, the fact that you can demonstrate that it was not part of the original is evidence that we can determine the original 'untampered' text, which is why modern translations leave the verse out.
You are wrong Micheal and here is why……. John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. The Father sent his Son and when you honour the Son you honour the Father and all the works of the Father, it’s not complex it’s simple. I take issue with individuals flaunting their education as if it bestows upon them a superior authority over the teachings of God. It is essential to remain humble in the presence of the Lord.
About education you are right. Brown and white are both on an intellectual ego trip. Repeating what they have been told to believe in school instead of knowing for themselves
Concerning *κύριος* (kyrios), Dr. White and Dr. Brown forget to mention that the term is also used, for example, for "Masters of slaves" in both the Old and New Testaments (i.e. Exodus 21:5-6; Matthew 10:24). In the Hebrew Tanakh, it is transliterated as *’ăḏōnî*, or "my master," and such a term could be applied to anyone of high status and honor (i.e. Genesis 24:12, 44:5; 1 Samuel 30:13,15; 2 Kings 5:3,20,22; 6:15; 1 Kings 18:7,13; 2 Kings 2:19; 4:16,28; 6:5; 8:5; Genesis 42:10; 23:6,11,15; 43:20; 44:18; 47:18; Judges 4:18, etc.). The Hebrew term *’ăḏōnaî*, on the other hand, is used specifically for YHWH in the Tanakh.
James white was asked if God is 3 persons gives us one scripture that says it and james white said "well there isnt one that says it exactly like that". But yet he wants us to believe it just because he says to believe. Trinitarians want us to believe in this triune God put together from scattered verses. You need to prove it. 1 john 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
+JC Lopez Right on Lopez. Brown and White are such False Teachers. Anyone who puts a lot of credence in their position is clearly someone who hasn't spend much time studying the Holy Writ, or Believe the Words of God and Jesus.
If the trinity is true then nobody "died for your sins". If a "part" of God was still alive after he "died" then he didn't die. However, we know that God and Jesus both have the ability to perform resurrections. So if "God's son" died the separate being that created him in the first place would be able to raise him from the dead. I'm sorry but "it's unexplainable" isn't a valid answer.
I come with a belief in john 17.3 and 1 cor. 8.6 that flat out state that God the Father is the one and only true God, but I feel the unitarians did a worse job than the trinitairans did in proving their points.
The Bible doesn't claim that God is divided into three entities, or that Jesus himself is a part of God, so the point with the concept of trinity is not to go against the Bible and reject the oneness of God, or prove his humanity, but rather to explain how God as a single entity is capable of having a direct relation with humanity, and take part in the created world, despite being outside of time and space, so rejecting this basic concept means that God is only capable of having one of those three manifestations in the same moment, or is incapable of having the other two manifestations at all, what leads to a theological absurdity.
This is a very insightful comment, in my opinion. However, it assumes that God cannot relate to the created world without being in it. If this is what you're actually saying it exposes an imperfection in God. The way Judaism understands this, God can (and does) achieve this interaction without reducing Himself into a finite form, completely bypassing the need to establish any sort of divine intermediary. The idea of a finite reduction of God is essentially identical to polytheistic thought, as prohibited in Exodus 20:4. Now you may say that Christianity is guiltless here because it does not create a statue of Jesus. While true, that ignores the concept of the spirit of the Law, which is only guided by, but not necessarily limited to, the letter of the Law. While Christians may not create a physical statue of God, they assume that God can be expressed and represented in physical form, which is the precursor to actually creating one. The resolution is that God is capable of everything in a completely unified, intangible form. We struggle with this as human beings, but alas, God says, _"'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,' says the Lord. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts [higher] than your thoughts.'"_ (Isaiah 55:8-9). I'm not sure how much more explicit you can get! Ironically Christians use these verses to support the Trinity, but they actually refute it! Good day.
The Trinitarian argument seems to be mostly based on how other people referred to Jesus as God. But Jesus seems to always differentiate himself from God, refers to God as his Father.. I trust Jesus over the authors
when both people are wrong, there will be no rest. Here is what the bible teaches...There is a Godhead. Jesus stated that our heavenly Father is the true God. Even demons knew as well as the disciples that Jesus is the son of God. And Jesus said that he would give unto us ANOTHER Comforter. You see...there are three in the Godhead and only one is the only true God which is our heavenly Father.
the confusion here is the word "GOD"in Hebrew the word is called Alahym or Elohym which simply means mighty one...Judges were called Alahym...Christ called himself the son of The Mightiest (alahym, god) thus making him Mighty (god or Alahym) as well in the sense of him being a direct descendant of the Most High...this was why He was cruxified for blasphemy...because being a man he called Himself a descendant of Alahym giving him God status...but Christ is NOT the most high God...His father is...
Andre Greenidge When you have a son, by the time he is grown up, he can do all the things you can, and perhaps better. Jesus is the Son, but we also know His Father has given all Authority in heaven, and on earth to Him. The Father knows that when we worship Christ, we worship Him as well, because of their unity. Amen
Very interesting to listen to this debate. The one crucial issue is that Jesus NEVER ONCE claimed he was God. Now, if in fact he was God in the flesh, he would have revealed this, but never did. He was clear in saying he was sent BY God. Luke 4:17-21 (CSB): “The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him, and unrolling the scroll, he found the place where it was written: The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” The people in the synagogue got riled up & a growing opposition against him took place. “He also said, ‘Truly I tell you, no prophet is accepted in his hometown” There he states clearly he was likening himself to a prophet. Everyone in the synagogue was enraged & tried to force him up a hill intending to push him off, but Jesus disappeared into the crowd. Seriously, can you see the ridiculous notion that Almighty God would have been bullied like this?? Of course not!!!
I do not believe in the Trinity, however I think the Trinitarian's won this debate. I thought the rabbi that was with Sir Anthony was completely loss for words. Sir Anthony did not have the answers I thought he should have. He has done better in other debates. This was not a convincing debate from Sir Anthony and the Rabbi.
I'm glad to see Unitarians in here. I posted how I was a Unitarian to I guess what seemed like a full trinitarian forum... They ended up locken my thread and then like within two days someone posts how more Christians today believe that Jesus is not God. That's because the ones who are having ears to hear are finally hearing.
Here are some scriptures for you all that’s undebatable. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 24Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone
You are asking a question and expecting a "one verse" answer. As a Muslim you are supposed to ask: where in the bible did Jesus say "I am God worship me"? Why can you get the question right?
@dandom01 - no you are incorrect. His eternal Sonship is relational, not in creative order and is for our benefit of understanding. Psalm 2:12 warns to Kiss the Son [align with] lest his anger be kindled, so the relation was known even back with David. Further, Micah 5:2 states his goings forth as not from Bethlehem forward as one may then think Christs' existence started at His birth there, but to show His eternal past, His goings forth from days everlasting [back]. You are ignoring much.
@MilanRossi - you are missing all the important verses. When Christ appeared he had put aside His Divine Power, not His Divine Nature. By becoming completely human as us, he could then be 'sent' by the Father, and be a 'Prophet' receiving 'command'. He had to be 'sent' as he was the 'Messenger' of the covenant. He could not send Himself. It's rather simple...
what a wonderful debate. For me using titles like God & Lord is what is confusing. God has a proper name Yahweh and Jesus is Yeshua. Unfortunately modern translations have taken Yahwehs name out of the writing & hence this confusion (LORD in caps is where the original name shud be) Two different beings surely. NT also says No-one knows the day or the hour not the angels, nor the Son but only the Father. Surely if Jesus was equal to His father he would know it. Also Corinthians 15 where Jesus subjects himself to Yahweh His father so that all things may be reconciled to Yahweh whether in heaven or on the earth. Yahwehs universal family will be brought into full unity and peace. I think the trinity doctrine is rather confusing. But then I only have one brain cell.
Their is no Trinity. Jesus was created by God. So when Jesus was saying Father forgive them who was He speaking to, When John the Baptist Baptized Jesus, the voice which came from Heaven, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, that Trinity concept came from the Council of Nicea, God Is God Alone. Jesus is God's son and the Holy Spirit is God's power.
The Trinity didn’t come from Nicea in 325. The creed even says. “We believe in one God, the Father” The Argument is basically what “stuff” Jesus is made of. He’s Begotten from the unbegotten Father. The Holy Spirit precedes from the Father, not the son. The modern version of the Trinity is a modern day invention from the enlightenment period. The original Trinity is a Monarchy
Emptying Himself didn't mean He put aside divine power or divine nature. It means He set aside His entitlement that came with being God's anointed human Messiah in order to live as a servant. Jesus Had the form (Morphe) of God and appeared (not physical appearance) like God in His character. He is the image of God. Not God Himself.
Micah speaks of His origins being of Old meaning that He was foretold of and foreordained in scripture from ancient times. The same statement is made a number of different ways in scripture, all having the same meaning. It does not mean He is eternal or pre-existent.
I think the best way to find the truth. is to learn aramaic and greek. then learn the grammer of the scriptures of the time. not just reading King James Version, Both sides have great points and love Yeshuah Ha Meshiach. God bless everyone
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Shadrach Meshach and Abednego thats a triune statement. Lol🥴. Trinity is does NOT originate with the scriptures... Jesus our savior was born (Col 1:15), Yaweh (Jah) has no beginning Nor end.... ONLY Yaweh knows the time of the End Not Jesus. How could 1 know and not the other. Jesus Died for our Sins. Yaweh resurrected him. Obviously if God Almighty (Pslm 83:18) died there would be NO ONE to resurrect 🤷🏽♂️. .... it goes one and on. Trinity Not in harmony with scriptures OBVIOUSLY
Is a man his father? No. He is his father 's son, yet, especially when the son is so much like his father, we tend to say "look at him...like father like son!". If we can get that sameness and that difference at the mortal human level, surely Holy God our Creator can have an Only Begotten Son, the same as His Father, yet, different?
Yes, it’s interesting how many people like to limit God based on our limited human capacity to understand eternal things… they cherry pick parts of the Bible to confirm what they’ve already decided to believe (& condemn everyone else for … cherry picking different scriptures to confirm their different belief.). My experience with Evangelical trinitarians is too many are more interested in being “right” & proving everyone else wrong (& therefore going to hell), than in following the first 2 great commandments: love God with all your heart, might, mind,, and strength; and love others as yourself…
Compare John 17:5 with John 17:24, and then with 1 Peter 1:20. 1 Peter 1:20 clearly says Christ was foreknown, the same Greek word used in Romans 8:29. If you do your due diligence in rightly dividing the word, you can clearly see that Sir Anthony is correct on this point. And there's not really even a debate there.
Interpretations belongs to Jehovah alone. Gen 40:8 Man must have Jehovah Interpretation and not his own private interpretation.2 Pet 1:20,21 Jehovah interpretation is Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Matt 16:13-17 . The trinity doctrine is mentioned no where in the scriptures. Why. Because it's a private interpretation and it's not inspired of Jehovah.
If you believe Jesus is God then you have to believe Adam and Melchizedek are God because they didn't have earthly mother's or father's. Adam got the breath of life straight from Gods Holy Spirit. God is a Spirit (says several times in the OT that He's not a man nor son of man that He should lie) and His Spirit is holy (He is a/the Holy Spirit). Don't you think God the Father and Jesus would have plainly said if they were one and the same God because that would have been a very important foundational doctrine of KNOWING the one and true God and worshipping Him in Spirit and in TRUTH. God the Father and Jesus are ONE in purpose. He is the perfect IMAGE of God (like Adam was supposed to be). Father God is the CEO/president and Jesus is the vice president and given the honor of taking care of His Father's business since He passed the test here on earth. Jesus plainly said he prays to God/Father. Why would Father God and Jesus lie or manipulate us into believing lies (they wouldn't). Jesus is not God. ❤
there is one God who is the Father Jehovah and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. the Holy Spirit is not a being but is the Spirit of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and that is why Jesus Christ said i and my Father are one because they share the same Spirit and when a Christian accepts Jesus Christ the Father and Son dwell in the christian through their Holy Spirit. there are only two beings. God the Father and His only begotten Son. period.! trinity teaching is false and pagan and devilish.!
The doctrine of the trinity is a very dangerous doctrine, and for me its a man-made doctrine which doesn't make any sense. If Jesus is equally God but at the same time worships God, how do you understand that you trinitarians? There is only ONE God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God does not worship anyone but Jesus does, God doesn't submit to anyone because there is none greater than Him but Jesus yet highly exalted and have a name above all names submit to God.
If the trinity was biblical, surely we would have seen the word trinity or the doctrine 'one God three persons' in John 1 or in Paul's detailed theological writings. If God was trinity, He would clearly tell us through His Holy Word. The Bible clearly says: 1. There is one God, the Father. 2. There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 3. God's Spirit is called the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Mister MrManwookie I am Derrick Myers and i live in Holland. I have a question about the water baptim. i am a little bit confused. Because i read : Matthew 28:19: Acts 2:38,Acts 8:16 Acts 19:2-6 Galatians 3:27 John 14:6 My Question is that we christians have to be baptize in the name of JESUS CHRIST ONLY an we will reserve the Holy Ghost not in Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost? because that is just a title or a name. can u please explane this please. thank u god bless u
Sectarians do not understand authority because they do not have authority. For example, Genesis 16 tells us that an angel appeared to Hagar at the fountain of water in the wilderness and told her to return to her mistress, Sarah. Hagar immediately said that the Lord God had told her to do this. Hagar was right. The Lord God had told her to return to her mistress. The angel had authority to speak for God. Jesus is the Son of God. He has authority to speak for the Father. When Jesus as Jehovah tells the backsliding idol worshipping children of Israel that he is the only true God, he is speaking for the Father. John 8:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father, He that honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Fatherwhich sent him. The Son has authority to say anything the Father would say.
At 46:00 min non trinitarians ask trinitarians where in bible did Jesus teach that God is triune in being and once again top trinitarian scholars white&brown could not come up with one scripture in the whole bible. Are these the kind of men people follow? Another question trinitarians cant answer is why the holy spirit doesnt know the day or hour of Jesus return. Can u answer this questio?
James White said on Matthew 28:19 "In the name (singular)" then he finish off " of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit". And no one in this comment section sees the contradiction in that? Very sad.
The Bible says the Father was never begotten making him eternal. Jesus is said to be the begotten god. Not the same, begotten is a temporal word meaning there was a beginning for that god. Thereby debunking the creed of the Trinity, because if one is eternal and one isn't then they aren't equal.
It's like saying, "Mom's name is 'Carol.' There is only one Carol who is Mom. You can't just say that Carol is Mom, _and_ Grandma, _and_ Sissy. Those are three different things!" Sure, it's three names for three different ways that Carol is--a mother to her children, a grandmother to her grandchildren, and a sister to her siblings--but that doesn't mean there's more than one Carol.
So you are saying like as said in old testament if or let us us say... God>s(the father) name is "Yahweh" then...... the son of Yahweh can not said "Yahweh"! Why?, first what does it mean "Yahweh"? "Yahweh" means... the one true God or the one who brings whatever exists in to existence!! or simply he is the creator of the earth and the universe. So "is not Jesus the creator of the earth and the universe?? and Was not he the Word??...as written on John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the was God!" then on verses 14 - "then the word becomes flesh and dwelt among us and called Emanuel....w/h means God with us!. So Jesus who called "the son of God" (b/c God(the word of God).. revealed himself in body of flesh!) and so he is God!, the one true God and the creator( the word)!
All apostles/christians during Jesus time only had the Old Testament and other writings to figure who Christ is,even book of Enoch describes Jesus in verse. Way before he came.
The Trinity and the Nicene Creed Contradicts the Bible. All that the Nicene Creed did was take a vote and this took place about 325 AD well after the was compiled . There were lots confussion with the true nature of God after the persecution of the apostles and prophets. The Trinity is post biblical. As for me being a Mormon I believe in the pre-mortal existance (Ecclesiastes 12:7, Jeramiah 1:4-5, Acts 17:28, Ephesiasties 1:3-4, Hebrews 12:9, Jude 1:6, Revolations 12:9. Now Just by stating that lets get down to the Oneness that God talks about. The GodHead is unified, but however we believe that The 3 individuals are separate individuals that are ONE GOD IN PURPOSE, BUT NOT IN SUBSTANCE like the Trinitarians belief. We do believe that Jesus was Jehovah as a premortal being and under the fathers directions Jehovah did much of the creations in the old testiment. It is plainly mentioned in the Bible what was meant by the oneness if you read John 17:21. There are many other scripture passages (John 14:28, Acts 7:55,56, John 17:11,20-23). The New Testament speaks of Christ and the Father being in two separate places (John 17:3, Romans 15:6, 1 Timothy 2:5 and 1 Timothy 5:21). If you read in Gennesis Genesis 1:26 it states that there were multiples involved in the creations. I do not look at the Truth as something we vote on I believe the way I do through scripture study and revolation, and if you what to believe read James 1:5 and pray about it. Romy
Actually I am not totally sure what Brown Believes, he dances around the issue so artfully and spins so tactfully, he actually confuses more than simplifies. It appears to me he speaks with a forked tongue.
Jesus said He and the Father were One...not the same. Jesus is God's voice in human form. Jesus affirms, many times, that He is not the ultimate authority; the Father is. Jesus says He cannot send the Holy Spirit unless He returned to the Father (John 16:7). And Paul makes clear that there is a hierarchy in Heaven and Jesus will subject Himself to God the Father after all His enemies have been made His footstool. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
The 'Jesus' of trinitarians is a 'hologram' or mere 'human incarnation' of the Real Son of God who never came down from heavan because he is an essentail part of the 'trinity'! Thus hollow are Jesus words "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life ( Greek ='psychi' 'soul) on behalf of his friends. According to the trinity, that DIDNT happen for Jesus 'Soul' is claimed to have been intact as part of the trinity in heavan! Thus a mockery of Christ's Ransom. A mockery of God's love for us. A mocker of Christ's love for us too! No wonder it is not taught in any verse in the NT. If so, where?
good point..and that's why people favor the son over the father..you cannot deny seeing that everywhere...christians view god the father as a mean, vengeful being but view jesus as the sweet innocent loving son who gave his life..but these 2 are the same, no? why is it that all i hear is mentioning of jesus and praying to jesus? why not IMITATE jesus 100% and pray to the father like he did? it makes absolutely no sense to me..
the question is..is jesus the begotten son of god, or just the son of god in which case we are all his children. If jesus was god, why did he eat and pray?
Okay. Who did the baptist say jesus is? The baptist didn't call him God. Didn't call him messiah. Baptist said "Behold the lamb of God who comes to atone for the sins of the world!" And that's exactly the role of Jesus 2000 years ago. You can believe the baptist. And what's with the blood of the new covenant this is my body this is my blood stuff? The lamb of God who came to be sacrificed and fulfill the temple sacrificial lamb stuff. Just as the baptist said. The whole temple was set up in order to be a living daily prophecy pointing toward the true lamb of god that was to come. "It is done". And the veil inside the temple was torn into pieces. So the jews are right to say Jesus was not the messiah. But on the other hand, they totally missed the whole lamb of God thing that their entire temple ceremonial system was set up to show them. His role as messiah will be at his second coming. His role 2000 years ago was the true lamb of God who came to atone for the sins of the world. The jews didn't miss the messiah, they missed the true lamb, and the building of this new third temple will be a final admission that they totally missed the point of who Jesus was. And the words from heaven said "This is my son in whom i am very pleased" I don't know why it's so hard to understand. What did Jesus say about himself just before ascension in order to try to finally resolve the mix-up in understanding? John 20:17. His final attempt to clarify couldn't be much more clear: Jesus said to her, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.'" Also please entertain this idea: The god depicted in the old testament was not always the one true God but many, not all, depictions were of the false god. And this false god has deceived the entire world right from the start. Don't look to the end of days to be deceived, that's already been done from the start. And you know it. You very well feel this inside. That's why you've ask yourself. Why does Jesus appear to be mostly the opposite personality to the god depicted in the old testament? Most of the acts of god in the old testament were more like how a demon would behave, no? Yes! Can you imagine Jesus doing many of the things that were done by that god in the old book? No way! Wake up. The deception isn't coming, it began right after the start. Jesus quoted from the old testament sometimes. But when it came to Moses, Jesus often rebuked moses. Saying things like "Moses commanded you to.... But i don't say that, i say this". What? Wasn't moses speaking for the true God? If so then why did Jesus rebuke many of the things that moses said came from God? I mean, the true God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, right? Don't cherry pick things from the old a new testaments that defend only what you believe. The law of moses specifically said that that woman caught in adultery was to be stoned to death immediately. But they brought her to Jesus just to test him on this. You know this story well as i do. So if the true God commanded through moses that the woman is to be killed, then why did Jesus say He doesn't condemn her to death? "Neither do i condemn you", and sent her home. If the true God told moses that woman should be killed, did Jesus then go against the true God? No. He didn't. Please wake up.
There is only One True GOD d ALMIGHTY FATHER is Spirit d EVERLASTING GOD creator of all things in Heaven n Earth,Lord JESUS His son is truly human NOT GOD d Savior n Mediator between GOD n man.Written in d Bible
Christ absolutely cannot be God. Revelation 3:12 Revelation 3:14 Colossians 1:15 John 20:17 Here we clearly have the scriptures telling us that Christ himself has a God, therefore he cannot be God. Furthermore the scriptures are also telling us that God the Most High created Jesus.
Question for Trinitarians: So Jesus the Son of God the second person of the Trinity became a man in the form of Jesus Christ. When the Son of God was here on earth sacrificing himself for all of our sins, the first person of the Trinity (God the Father) & the third person of the Trinity (Holy Spirit) were the only two persons of the Trinity left in Heaven as Jesus the Son of God was on earth dying for all mankind for our sins? Is that correct?
When you read Genesis chapter 41 and we see Pharaoh elevating Joseph to the second highest position in all of his house and the land of egypt. We see that the reason why Pharaoh says Joseph deserves or is worthy to be exalted to such a height the spirit of God is in him😊. It doesn't say he deserves to be elevated because he is pharaoh in contrast Pharaoh says I am pharaoh but no one will lift a hand or foot in Egypt without your word. This shows the relationship between the father and the son that the father is God but because he has chosen and placed his Spirit within his only begotten son he is worthy to be exalted to the second highest position in all of creation. We know that this is referring to Christ because Pharaoh goes on to tell all that are there to bow the need to Joseph. Does the scripture say at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess. It goes on to say that Pharaoh gave him a new name and a wife. Does the scripture say that the sun is giving her name and no one knows except the father and it says that he is giving the church as a bride. This is a Titan shadow that explains to us from the old covenant how God and his son were going to together bring about the salvation of his people.
The Trinity is Roman Catholicism and you won't find it anywhere in the early church Father's writings. Only after the Roman influences which lead up to the Council of Nicea in 325 will you find this. The first mention of a trinity is from Tertullian [a.d. 145-220] who gave a vague reference to it. Origen [a.d. 185-254] forwarded this concept and it was later accepted at the Counsel of Constantinople in 381 AD. Polycarp, Clement, and Ignatius who were before them never speak of a trinity.
There's no thing as trinity, it doesn't exist. Trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in the bible and Jesus never ever claims himself as God and he never ever claims divinity or say pray to me
The statement, "Before Abraham was, I am," does not imply that Jesus was God before Abraham's birth but is a declaration that he existed prior to Abraham.
@@dimitris_zaha In the knowledge of God or with God in some way, like how jeremiah was already chosen to be a prophet in jeremiah 1:5 and God had already "chosen" many people before the creation of the world too.
Remarkable how scholars can look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions...
In my opinion it might be that they are scholarly minded but not spiritually minded.......
Except when it comes to the false doctrine of tithing
That's exactly the problem with Christianity.
@@jameswagner2116Another one for the list. More about business.
@@aaronsanchez3141Jesus was not God
Good debate but God is not the Author of confusion. It's simple if you read the Bible yourself. Jesus is the Son of God sitting at the right hand of the Father. Easy
AMEN!! And AMEN!!
Not easy. Does the father and the son have the same mind?
@Josh No, Jesus clearly has his own will. Luke 22:42
“Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine be done.”
@@Joshcaldwell24 Jesus knows God's word 100% so he can speak on behalf of the father with no corrupted conclusions. The only begotten son.
Amen and Amen.......
THE WORD "EMMANUEL" SAYS" GOD IS WITH US" ..PAUL SAYS" IF CHRIST BE FOR US WHO CAN BE AGAINST US"
Very astute.
So in John 17verse 3 Jesus refers to himself as being sent by God now Jesus says in this chapter. John 13 verse 16 how true it is that a servant is not greater then his master NOR IS THE MESSENGER MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GOD WHO SENT HIM.
Questions for Trinitarians
1. The Father has a name, the Son has a name. What is the name of the Holy Spirit?
2. In Paul’s epistles, why did he leave out salutations to the Holy Spirit?
3. Why is there no conversation recorded between the Father and the Holy Spirit or the Son and the Holy Spirit?
4. Isaiah 45:21, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned in this verse?
5. Isaiah 57:15, the Father dwells only with the Son?
6. Matt 28:18-20 - Jesus commanded his disciples to baptise in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However, his disciples in the book of Acts only baptise in Jesus name. Why?
7. Revelation 22:1, why is there a seat for Jesus but no seat for the Holy Spirit at the Great White Throne? If the Father is the Son and vice versa, why is there a need for separate thrones?
8. Why John 1:1 does not mention the Holy Spirit?
9. Why was 1John 5:7 only added in AD325? This verse is not found in scriptures before that time.
10. John 5:30, John 6:38, If the Son is also the Father, why would there be 2 wills?
11. John 10:30, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned?
12. Revelation 5:7, why would God hand the book to Himself?
13. Revelation 11:15, why only mention Lord and Christ but not the Holy Ghost?
14. John 10:30, why Jesus did not include the Holy Spirit?
15. 1Cor 3:23, Christ belongs to God or Christ is God?
16. 2John 1:3, why John’s salutation also omit the Holy Spirit?
Very good questions that will leave trinitarians stunned.
Also the non trinitarian?
You left out:
Do they keep secrets from each other? If not why does only the Father know of the great day?
These are great questions for Google.
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
- 1 Corinthians 15:28
🙂👍🏻 One true God and His Son 🙌🏻
In John 14 Jesus Say's that his father is greater than he is. so if Jesus was God then how can one be greater than the other
They claim that the verse means 'co-equal'. 😂
Good observation.
Jesus submitted to His Father’s will. Entirely. His humility is our example to be obedient children also.
Jesus surrendered from His true humanity. TO His own true Divinity n
Good observation.
Jesus submitted to His Father’s will. Entirely. His humility is our example to be obedient children also.
Jesus surrendered from His true humanity. TO His own true Divinity
Because Jesus explicitly saids over and over he came to serve (Matthew 20:28). This perfect example of humility is further shown in Philippians 2:5-11
If Jesus said eternal life is to know the ONE true lGod and Jesus Christ whom God sent, that is good enough for me.😮
The big question is if Jesus was part of the Trinity or he was God, why did Jesus claim his God who is his God is the one and only true God?
Many scriptures from the writers were bias that's why there were 4 gospels to show that. plus many verses were added later and some earlier so deciding on the accuracy is suspect to flaws. Yes the scripture is authentic yet the writers wrote in their bias.
test Paul as a true apostle
This is so easy to explain. God gave his only son to give us eternal life, this is what we preach. The part if Jesus is God is not what Jesus wanted us to preach.
The trinity doctrine is man-made
@@rockstaricky your statements on accuracy of scripture are blatantly false.
It's clear to me, when Jesus/Messiah said to Mary "touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to..... MY GOD". (Jesus said he has a God)
Also Rev 3.12 (4 more times Jesus says "My God" 📖 (it is written)
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
😊24Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone
This comment makes sense as someone who was raised in a non trinitarian church, my wife was raised a trinitarian out discussion regarding this topic are heated but respectful lol
Yes, Christianity did not destroy gnostic paganism; it adopted it." God in Flesh and 3 tri god are all pagan concepts and are not scriptural
@@Zipfreer The branch of gnostics that I'm familiar with denied that Jesus had flesh because they believed material existence to be evil and their God would not have any part in it. That's why St. Ignatius in the 1st/2nd century constantly reaffirmed the incarnation, death and resurrection against them in his letters.
Jesus is the " Son of the Living God"- Matthew 16:16. If Jesus speaks about " union" or " becoming one", it means " following the same lifestyle , just as Jesus did." See John 17:20-23; 14:6,12
So many Trinitarian Christians will use the verse to verify the Trinity: The Father and I are one" and also " When you see me you have seen the Father."
Wonder why they don't respond with: The Father, I and the Holy Spirit are one" and When you see me you have seen the Father and..... the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit is the third member of the Trinity why is he left out of the equation so often??Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Holy Trinity comprise of three coequal, coeternal "Persons" Distinct, but ONE???? Do I have the definition wrong.
+Walt Jervey ----how can anyone logically assume that NUMERICALLY----THREE of anything adds up to one.?
Good job boys! Case closed. 🤦🏼♂️
Add to that (the oneness of God the Father and Jesus), John 17: 20-26… “that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” Does this mean we’ll all be absorbed into them, to become one with them? (Hmm, that would turn trinitarian into trillitarian - trillions of us as one God; forgive me if that’s sacrilegious; just trying to make a point). This scripture seems to clarify God and Jesus as separate beings with one purpose … a purpose that we’re to adopt so that we may become one with them - one in love, in mercy, and in striving to see all people and things thru their eyes…
@@loridavis7086nailed it
The problem with some people is they have imagination that will create things complicated out of the ordinary and say that that is the truth.
Jesus is seated at the right hand of God. Does this not mean that there are two distinct entities, Father God and the son of Father God, Jesus Christ.
Exactly right
John 17 3
You are right
If Jesus is seated at the right hand of God, where is Holley Ghost seated?
Means he is sitting at his owen right hand 🤣
Here it is,Now dig..The Truth About the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
00:0007:13
PEOPLE who believe the Trinity teaching say that God consists of three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each of these three persons is said to be equal to the others, almighty, and without beginning. According to the Trinity doctrine, therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there is only one God.
Many who believe the Trinity admit that they are not able to explain this teaching. Still, they may feel that it is taught in the Bible. It is worth noting that the word “Trinity” never occurs in the Bible. But is the idea of a Trinity found there? To answer this question, let us look at a scripture that supporters often cite to uphold the Trinity.
“THE WORD WAS GOD”
John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (King James Version) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. (John 1:14) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God.
Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” (A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” (The New Testament in an Improved Version) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” (The Translator’s New Testament) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. * Instead, because of his high position among Jehovah’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”
GET MORE FACTS
Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.
For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.
CONFIRM THE FACTS
Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?
Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?
As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.-Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15.
George Mason
INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPAEDIA: "The doctrine of the
Trinity did not form part of the Apostles' preachings, as this is reported in
the New Testament" (First Edition, Vol. 18, Page 226).
NEW INTERNATIONAL STANDARD BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA: "Theterm 'Trinity' was originated by ... Tertulian, a Roman Catholic church father.
No record of the Trinitarian formula can be discovered in the Acts of the
Apostles... At the time of the Reformation, the Protestant
Church took over the doctrine of
the Trinity without serious examination" (Vol. 1, Page 396).
NEW CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: "With regard to the form
used for Baptism in the early church, there is the difficulty that although
Matthew (28:19) speaks of the Trinitarian formula, which is now used, the Acts
of the Apostles (2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5) and Paul (I Corinthians 1:13; 6:11;
Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3) speak only of Baptism 'in the Name of Jesus.'
Baptism in titles cannot be found in the first centuries..." (McGraw Hill
Publishing, Page 59).
Where in the bible does it say you will be saved for confessing that Jesus is God? All who declare that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God.
1John 4:15
22:28 - I could not resist the temptation to respond to this point. White says that we "can't start with the presupposition of Unitarianism and" enforce it upon the text, but that's exactly what Christians do when they read the Tanakh. They enforce a Trinitarian presupposition on a "Unitarian document" without letting the text instruct them.
Brown says that it was a perfectly natural Jewish position to believe in the complex unity of God (Minute 34:12), but then quotes (Minute 48:17) John 5:18, in which the Jewish audience wanted to kill Jesus. If Jews had a natural predisposition to believing in the plurality of God, why did they want to kill Jesus?
I know I am late, but one answer to your last question would be: those Jews didn't believe a man could be God. Incarnation and Plurality-of-God are two different things.
Because Jesus wasn't wat they expected black man talkn bout he is who uve been waiting on, remember, they where and are waiting on a king of kings he was born in the slums praise Jesus
Because it was already prophesied in the scripture that the Jews would kill Him.
@@davidgeorge6410 Exactly.
@@reynaldobellocillo1911which scripture is that please
I have a few questions for Trinitarians:
If indeed there is a Trinity and all are equal, where in the Bible is it said or even suggested that the Holy Spirit is to be worshiped or in any way equal to Yahweh?
I can see how the confusion/lack of understanding of the person of Yeshua is derived, but isn't it clear why the argument for the Trinity never tries to equate the Holy Spirit with God?
And if one part of the so called Trinity is not equal, doesn't that just throw a spanner in the whole theory?
Matthew 28:19 when we're told to baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. To be baptized into God is what the verse is about. If Jesus and the Spirit are not God, then we are being baptized into "the One true God.. and a created being, and a presence of God" essentially. putting the latter two persons in the same sentence as God, if the two are not God, doesn't makes sense.
There is no trinity in God they can't prove anything.
@@gypsytellingthetruththey did quite well in this debate.
@dee mark 5:7 read verse Matthew 28:18 all authority have been given to me- given meaning he doesn’t have authority without the Father GIVING it them … 1 Corinthians 15 says Jesus presents perfected creation to the Father so THE FATHER may be all in all
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
- 1 Corinthians 11:3
Trinitarians say they are three in one God and equal but the Scriptures say otherwise.
56:22 A better example would be that if a king wants to build a castle, he will commission and assign builders but in the end, it was the king who built the castle. The builders would get praised as having done a wonderful job but everyone would say and agree that the king built it including the builders even though we know that technically it was built by the hands of the builders.
God is in control. His plans always come true. This issue is one of a few that show who is a true follower of Christ, and who is following Satan yet believe they are in the light.
The debate is interesting. The men represented here are excellent. My comment is simply to have another debate where these same men address where the Trinity (word) came from. Who brought the doctrine into the church? Were these men strictly bible believers or were they philosophers? A debate on the historical origin of said teaching would settle the debate once and for all. Trading scripture back and forth is entertaining, but it does not resolve the real issue. Peace.
This was a very good debate. My question is of Jesus is an Agent or representative of God then why would he share a throne with an agent of his in heaven and have all creation worship his agent rather than himself as God?
He is his Son. He is the heir to the Throne. But since the Father can not die, Jesus will live for eternity under his Father. He is the ertenal Prince of Peace.
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
- 1 Corinthians 15:28
@HeroOfChristArchives
Do you even understand the quote? Jesus said he receive command from The father, which means he does not have same rights as the Father. If you say The Father is God Almighty and Jesus pbuh is the Messiah and messenger of god who create miracles with the spirit of God like Jonah pbuh, then the quote make sense. If you insist Jesus is god almighty, it does not fit the quote.
if you only knows the father God name ( Jn 17:11-12). Jesus Christ is not God but he is the Son of God (Jn 20:17)t
Jesus calls our God and Father his God and Father at John 20:17.
See also Rev. 3:12
The Messiah, as God, was distinguishing between His relationship with the Father and His disciples’ relationship with the Father as adopted human creatures (Jn.1:12-13). Simonline 🤔🙏😀👍
@@simonline1194 When you write "the Messiah, as God...", you are literally saying "the anointed one of God, as God..." or "the man anointed by God, as God..."
One of my go to verses against the Trinity. How can God have a God?
If there is a trinity, and the father is the father of the son, why does the Holy Ghost overshadow Mary, and impregnate her. Wouldn't that make the Holy Ghost the father? If that is so, why does the father get to claim fathership of the son when the Holy Ghost is clearly the father of the son, so who does the son call father. Yet later on Jesus says I and my father are one, and when you have seen me you have seen the father. Sounds like a bunch of confusion to me. I'm glad I know that Jesus is none other than God Almighty, manifest in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Richard Tilley
The fullness of GOD dwells in us too.
This doesn't make us God Almighty.
Kimberly H You're right, God is in us. Both Jesus and the Father are in us.
John 4:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word. Then my Father will love him, *and we* will go to him and make our home within him.
Jesus himself called himself the son of God..........why is there debate for petes sake.
Son of God doesnt mean that he is God. Its a common used phrase. People can say they are son of God. That makes sense becuase God made us. We are his creation.
Not everyone will be saved or enter the kingdom of God
I’ll dumb it down the debate is whether he was created or always existed.
Because that's not the only claim Jesus makes. You have to look at the full picture not just 1 verse.
So if Moses uses the staff to spit the red sea did the staff do it? Did Moses do it, or did God do it. The clear answer is that Moses did it only through he power of God. For thine is the kingdom, The POWER and the glory.
Why can’t these guys understand that Jesus RECEIVED all power & glory from God, his Father?
just because Jesus pre existed with God befor the creation of this world, how does this proove that he is God the father? He maintained that the Father was and is greater than he. It seems to me that Jesus is the offspring of God and always was. He is by the choice of God our father from everlasting to everlasting , always was always will be. I have no problem with that but the father will in my opinion always be greater than the son. comments?
Truth
I’m amazed by these 2 non Trinitarians who read the Bible for the decades they said they had but still not see that Jesus is GOD!
Well l was only a Trinitarian for 1 year, after understanding the scriptures l understood Jesus was not God. I am not a scholar.
Could say the same to the Trinitarian Scholars who have read the Bible for decades but haven't yet understood Jesus is not God. 😊
Jesus is the Son of God amen.
no where in the entire old testament do you get anything trinitarian. on the contrary, over and over and over again, the old testament repeatedly states GOD IS ONE, and there is NONE else besides him. "Hear O Israel YHWH is our god, YHWH is ONE.
Even the new testament itself never gets you to a clear trinity. God, "the father," is always contrasted to, and being supreme above, Jesus, the son.
NUMBERS 23:19 👈🏼👈🏼
*Does trinitarian believe in 3 persons which are physical beings or 2 are physical and 1 is spiritual or do they believe that all 3 are seperate entities.*
He spoke to who while dying on the cross ? Himself ? Did he ask himself to forgive them for they no not what they do ?
You say that 70 people saw God... yet no-one can see God and live?
So who did they see?
John 1 explains "no-one has ever seen God, but the one and only God who is at the Father's side has made him known".
How does 1 John 5:7 prove tampering. Surely, the fact that you can demonstrate that it was not part of the original is evidence that we can determine the original 'untampered' text, which is why modern translations leave the verse out.
You are wrong Micheal and here is why……. John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
The Father sent his Son and when you honour the Son you honour the Father and all the works of the Father, it’s not complex it’s simple.
I take issue with individuals flaunting their education as if it bestows upon them a superior authority over the teachings of God. It is essential to remain humble in the presence of the Lord.
About education you are right. Brown and white are both on an intellectual ego trip. Repeating what they have been told to believe in school instead of knowing for themselves
God is ONE and Yeshua is Our Messiah,,,,WE Thank God for Our Messiah.....
Concerning *κύριος* (kyrios), Dr. White and Dr. Brown forget to mention that the term is also used, for example, for "Masters of slaves" in both the Old and New Testaments (i.e. Exodus 21:5-6; Matthew 10:24). In the Hebrew Tanakh, it is transliterated as *’ăḏōnî*, or "my master," and such a term could be applied to anyone of high status and honor (i.e. Genesis 24:12, 44:5; 1 Samuel 30:13,15; 2 Kings 5:3,20,22; 6:15; 1 Kings 18:7,13; 2 Kings 2:19; 4:16,28; 6:5; 8:5; Genesis 42:10; 23:6,11,15; 43:20; 44:18; 47:18; Judges 4:18, etc.).
The Hebrew term *’ăḏōnaî*, on the other hand, is used specifically for YHWH in the Tanakh.
James white was asked if God is 3 persons gives us one scripture that says it and james white said "well there isnt one that says it exactly like that". But yet he wants us to believe it just because he says to believe. Trinitarians want us to believe in this triune God put together from scattered verses. You need to prove it.
1 john 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
+JC Lopez Right on Lopez. Brown and White are such False Teachers. Anyone who puts a lot of credence in their position is clearly someone who hasn't spend much time studying the Holy Writ, or Believe the Words of God and Jesus.
+JC Lopez Amen!
If the trinity is true then nobody "died for your sins". If a "part" of God was still alive after he "died" then he didn't die. However, we know that God and Jesus both have the ability to perform resurrections. So if "God's son" died the separate being that created him in the first place would be able to raise him from the dead. I'm sorry but "it's unexplainable" isn't a valid answer.
interesting point, ;)
I come to this with a bias to one side but this is a really well done debate and very informative
I come with a belief in john 17.3 and 1 cor. 8.6 that flat out state that God the Father is the one and only true God, but I feel the unitarians did a worse job than the trinitairans did in proving their points.
@@jessenone3708 💯 truth
The Bible doesn't claim that God is divided into three entities, or that Jesus himself is a part of God, so the point with the concept of trinity is not to go against the Bible and reject the oneness of God, or prove his humanity, but rather to explain how God as a single entity is capable of having a direct relation with humanity, and take part in the created world, despite being outside of time and space, so rejecting this basic concept means that God is only capable of having one of those three manifestations in the same moment, or is incapable of having the other two manifestations at all, what leads to a theological absurdity.
This is a very insightful comment, in my opinion. However, it assumes that God cannot relate to the created world without being in it. If this is what you're actually saying it exposes an imperfection in God. The way Judaism understands this, God can (and does) achieve this interaction without reducing Himself into a finite form, completely bypassing the need to establish any sort of divine intermediary.
The idea of a finite reduction of God is essentially identical to polytheistic thought, as prohibited in Exodus 20:4. Now you may say that Christianity is guiltless here because it does not create a statue of Jesus. While true, that ignores the concept of the spirit of the Law, which is only guided by, but not necessarily limited to, the letter of the Law. While Christians may not create a physical statue of God, they assume that God can be expressed and represented in physical form, which is the precursor to actually creating one.
The resolution is that God is capable of everything in a completely unified, intangible form. We struggle with this as human beings, but alas, God says, _"'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,' says the Lord. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts [higher] than your thoughts.'"_ (Isaiah 55:8-9). I'm not sure how much more explicit you can get! Ironically Christians use these verses to support the Trinity, but they actually refute it! Good day.
Superbly stated!
The Trinitarian argument seems to be mostly based on how other people referred to Jesus as God. But Jesus seems to always differentiate himself from God, refers to God as his Father.. I trust Jesus over the authors
when both people are wrong, there will be no rest. Here is what the bible teaches...There is a Godhead. Jesus stated that our heavenly Father is the true God. Even demons knew as well as the disciples that Jesus is the son of God. And Jesus said that he would give unto us ANOTHER Comforter. You see...there are three in the Godhead and only one is the only true God which is our heavenly Father.
case closed!!! well said
Nice :)
the confusion here is the word "GOD"in Hebrew the word is called Alahym or Elohym which simply means mighty one...Judges were called Alahym...Christ called himself the son of The Mightiest (alahym, god) thus making him Mighty (god or Alahym) as well in the sense of him being a direct descendant of the Most High...this was why He was cruxified for blasphemy...because being a man he called Himself a descendant of Alahym giving him God status...but Christ is NOT the most high God...His father is...
Christ is the SON
Andre Greenidge When you have a son, by the time he is grown up, he can do all the things you can, and perhaps better. Jesus is the Son, but we also know His Father has given all Authority in heaven, and on earth to Him. The Father knows that when we worship Christ, we worship Him as well, because of their unity. Amen
Kudos to dr anthony buzzard and to non trinitarian explanation more understanble not complicated like trinitarian so much complex.
Very interesting to listen to this debate. The one crucial issue is that Jesus NEVER ONCE claimed he was God. Now, if in fact he was God in the flesh, he would have revealed this, but never did. He was clear in saying he was sent BY God.
Luke 4:17-21 (CSB): “The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him, and unrolling the scroll, he found the place where it was written:
The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me
to proclaim release to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to set free the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
The people in the synagogue got riled up & a growing opposition against him took place.
“He also said, ‘Truly I tell you, no prophet is accepted in his hometown”
There he states clearly he was likening himself to a prophet.
Everyone in the synagogue was enraged & tried to force him up a hill intending to push him off, but Jesus disappeared into the crowd.
Seriously, can you see the ridiculous notion that Almighty God would have been bullied like this?? Of course not!!!
I do not believe in the Trinity, however I think the Trinitarian's won this debate. I thought the rabbi that was with Sir Anthony was completely loss for words. Sir Anthony did not have the answers I thought he should have. He has done better in other debates. This was not a convincing debate from Sir Anthony and the Rabbi.
You are very honest i clap to you for that.
I'm glad to see Unitarians in here. I posted how I was a Unitarian to I guess what seemed like a full trinitarian forum... They ended up locken my thread and then like within two days someone posts how more Christians today believe that Jesus is not God. That's because the ones who are having ears to hear are finally hearing.
Here are some scriptures for you all that’s undebatable.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
24Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone
Trinitarians why did the old testament never mentioned my Son and me are one and existed with me eternally? Give me one verse only one!
You are asking a question and expecting a "one verse" answer. As a Muslim you are supposed to ask:
where in the bible did Jesus say "I am God worship me"? Why can you get the question right?
@dandom01 - no you are incorrect. His eternal Sonship is relational, not in creative order and is for our benefit of understanding. Psalm 2:12 warns to Kiss the Son [align with] lest his anger be kindled, so the relation was known even back with David. Further, Micah 5:2 states his goings forth as not from Bethlehem forward as one may then think Christs' existence started at His birth there, but to show His eternal past, His goings forth from days everlasting [back]. You are ignoring much.
revelation 5:13 mention only 2 person. so there is no trinity
@MilanRossi - you are missing all the important verses. When Christ appeared he had put aside His Divine Power, not His Divine Nature. By becoming completely human as us, he could then be 'sent' by the Father, and be a 'Prophet' receiving 'command'. He had to be 'sent' as he was the 'Messenger' of the covenant. He could not send Himself. It's rather simple...
what a wonderful debate. For me using titles like God & Lord is what is confusing. God has a proper name Yahweh and Jesus is Yeshua. Unfortunately modern translations have taken Yahwehs name out of the writing & hence this confusion (LORD in caps is where the original name shud be) Two different beings surely. NT also says No-one knows the day or the hour not the angels, nor the Son but only the Father. Surely if Jesus was equal to His father he would know it. Also Corinthians 15 where Jesus subjects himself to Yahweh His father so that all things may be reconciled to Yahweh whether in heaven or on the earth. Yahwehs universal family will be brought into full unity and peace.
I think the trinity doctrine is rather confusing. But then I only have one brain cell.
Their is no Trinity. Jesus was created by God. So when Jesus was saying Father forgive them who was He speaking to, When John the Baptist Baptized Jesus, the voice which came from Heaven, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, that Trinity concept came from the Council of Nicea, God Is God Alone. Jesus is God's son and the Holy Spirit is God's power.
Exactly. Only a few would know bible truths
Exactly 👍
Thank you! The Trinity is Pagan hocus pocus.
The Trinity didn’t come from Nicea in 325.
The creed even says. “We believe in one God, the Father”
The Argument is basically what “stuff” Jesus is made of. He’s Begotten from the unbegotten Father. The Holy Spirit precedes from the Father, not the son.
The modern version of the Trinity is a modern day invention from the enlightenment period.
The original Trinity is a Monarchy
Emptying Himself didn't mean He put aside divine power or divine nature. It means He set aside His entitlement that came with being God's anointed human Messiah in order to live as a servant. Jesus Had the form (Morphe) of God and appeared (not physical appearance) like God in His character. He is the image of God. Not God Himself.
Micah speaks of His origins being of Old meaning that He was foretold of and foreordained in scripture from ancient times. The same statement is made a number of different ways in scripture, all having the same meaning. It does not mean He is eternal or pre-existent.
I think the best way to find the truth. is to learn aramaic and greek. then learn the grammer of the scriptures of the time. not just reading King James Version, Both sides have great points and love Yeshuah Ha Meshiach. God bless everyone
This is a great debate and very informative presentation from the Trinitarians. Blessings
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
@@theguyver4934 Nonsense. Jesus is the SON of God. There is no trinity.
If someone is gonna try solving the Trinity they gotta think in the 10th dimension and probably so
how does one believe in trinity and claim to be monothiest?
it doesn't make sense
Correct.
The Trinity does not make any sense, because it is completely false.
Thats why the TRINITY is busting with contradictions!
How can the mediator (Jesus), between God and man...... also be God.
Shadrach Meshach and Abednego thats a triune statement. Lol🥴. Trinity is does NOT originate with the scriptures... Jesus our savior was born (Col 1:15), Yaweh (Jah) has no beginning Nor end.... ONLY Yaweh knows the time of the End Not Jesus. How could 1 know and not the other. Jesus Died for our Sins. Yaweh resurrected him. Obviously if God Almighty (Pslm 83:18) died there would be NO ONE to resurrect 🤷🏽♂️. .... it goes one and on. Trinity Not in harmony with scriptures OBVIOUSLY
Is a man his father? No. He is his father 's son, yet, especially when the son is so much like his father, we tend to say "look at him...like father like son!". If we can get that sameness and that difference at the mortal human level, surely Holy God our Creator can have an Only Begotten Son, the same as His Father, yet, different?
Yes, it’s interesting how many people like to limit God based on our limited human capacity to understand eternal things… they cherry pick parts of the Bible to confirm what they’ve already decided to believe (& condemn everyone else for … cherry picking different scriptures to confirm their different belief.). My experience with Evangelical trinitarians is too many are more interested in being “right” & proving everyone else wrong (& therefore going to hell), than in following the first 2 great commandments: love God with all your heart, might, mind,, and strength; and love others as yourself…
Did it ever occur to you that "same" and "different" are opposite words?
Compare John 17:5 with John 17:24, and then with 1 Peter 1:20. 1 Peter 1:20 clearly says Christ was foreknown, the same Greek word used in Romans 8:29. If you do your due diligence in rightly dividing the word, you can clearly see that Sir Anthony is correct on this point. And there's not really even a debate there.
Interpretations belongs to Jehovah alone. Gen 40:8 Man must have Jehovah Interpretation and not his own private interpretation.2 Pet 1:20,21 Jehovah interpretation is Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Matt 16:13-17 . The trinity doctrine is mentioned no where in the scriptures. Why. Because it's a private interpretation and it's not inspired of Jehovah.
If you believe Jesus is God then you have to believe Adam and Melchizedek are God because they didn't have earthly mother's or father's. Adam got the breath of life straight from Gods Holy Spirit. God is a Spirit (says several times in the OT that He's not a man nor son of man that He should lie) and His Spirit is holy (He is a/the Holy Spirit). Don't you think God the Father and Jesus would have plainly said if they were one and the same God because that would have been a very important foundational doctrine of KNOWING the one and true God and worshipping Him in Spirit and in TRUTH. God the Father and Jesus are ONE in purpose. He is the perfect IMAGE of God (like Adam was supposed to be). Father God is the CEO/president and Jesus is the vice president and given the honor of taking care of His Father's business since He passed the test here on earth. Jesus plainly said he prays to God/Father. Why would Father God and Jesus lie or manipulate us into believing lies (they wouldn't). Jesus is not God. ❤
Great statement. Just want to clarify that Melchizedek did have earthly parents. However, there is no record.
Trinitarians are only quoting John for the most part. The rest of the connections to Old Testament are subjective. Unitarians win this debate.
there is one God who is the Father Jehovah and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. the Holy Spirit is not a being but is the Spirit of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and that is why Jesus Christ said i and my Father are one because they share the same Spirit and when a Christian accepts Jesus Christ the Father and Son dwell in the christian through their Holy Spirit. there are only two beings. God the Father and His only begotten Son. period.!
trinity teaching is false and pagan and devilish.!
The doctrine of the trinity is a very dangerous doctrine, and for me its a man-made doctrine which doesn't make any sense. If Jesus is equally God but at the same time worships God, how do you understand that you trinitarians? There is only ONE God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God does not worship anyone but Jesus does, God doesn't submit to anyone because there is none greater than Him but Jesus yet highly exalted and have a name above all names submit to God.
If the trinity was biblical, surely we would have seen the word trinity or the doctrine 'one God three persons' in John 1 or in Paul's detailed theological writings. If God was trinity, He would clearly tell us through His Holy Word. The Bible clearly says:
1. There is one God, the Father.
2. There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
3. God's Spirit is called the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Mister MrManwookie
I am Derrick Myers and i live in Holland.
I have a question about the water baptim. i am a little bit confused.
Because i read : Matthew 28:19:
Acts 2:38,Acts 8:16 Acts 19:2-6 Galatians 3:27 John 14:6
My Question is that we christians have to be baptize in the name
of JESUS CHRIST ONLY an we will reserve the Holy Ghost not in Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost?
because that is just a title or a name.
can u please explane this please.
thank u god bless u
Sectarians do not understand authority because they do not have authority. For example, Genesis 16 tells us that an angel appeared to Hagar at the fountain of water in the wilderness and told her to return to her mistress, Sarah. Hagar immediately said that the Lord God had told her to do this. Hagar was right. The Lord God had told her to return to her mistress. The angel had authority to speak for God.
Jesus is the Son of God. He has authority to speak for the Father. When Jesus as Jehovah tells the backsliding idol worshipping children of Israel that he is the only true God, he is speaking for the Father.
John 8:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father, He that honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Fatherwhich sent him.
The Son has authority to say anything the Father would say.
True
How is it the non trinitarian s don't understand the HEBREW BIBLE ?
At 46:00 min non trinitarians ask trinitarians where in bible did Jesus teach that God is triune in being and once again top trinitarian scholars white&brown could not come up with one scripture in the whole bible. Are these the kind of men people follow? Another question trinitarians cant answer is why the holy spirit doesnt know the day or hour of Jesus return. Can u answer this questio?
wonderful debate.. gonna watch part2 next! thanks for uploading this! btw is it just me or does the moderator look like george from seinfeld ? 😅
Great and peaceful debate...Thanks for all those 4 people ... Jesus is the Lord..Amen..
James White said on Matthew 28:19 "In the name (singular)" then he finish off " of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit". And no one in this comment section sees the contradiction in that? Very sad.
Yeah! The Angel told his mother that she would conceive by the power of on High, Holy Spirit of God. So Joseph is not his biological father.
The Bible says the Father was never begotten making him eternal. Jesus is said to be the begotten god. Not the same, begotten is a temporal word meaning there was a beginning for that god. Thereby debunking the creed of the Trinity, because if one is eternal and one isn't then they aren't equal.
It's like saying, "Mom's name is 'Carol.' There is only one Carol who is Mom. You can't just say that Carol is Mom, _and_ Grandma, _and_ Sissy. Those are three different things!" Sure, it's three names for three different ways that Carol is--a mother to her children, a grandmother to her grandchildren, and a sister to her siblings--but that doesn't mean there's more than one Carol.
Uhh no, that's modalism
Jesus was Son of God, not Son of Self!
So you are saying like as said in old testament if or let us us say... God>s(the father) name is "Yahweh" then...... the son of Yahweh can not said "Yahweh"! Why?, first what does it mean "Yahweh"? "Yahweh" means... the one true God or the one who brings whatever exists in to existence!! or simply he is the creator of the earth and the universe.
So "is not Jesus the creator of the earth and the universe?? and Was not he the Word??...as written on John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the was God!" then on verses 14 - "then the word becomes flesh and dwelt among us and called Emanuel....w/h means God with us!. So Jesus who called "the son of God" (b/c God(the word of God).. revealed himself in body of flesh!) and so he is God!, the one true God and the creator( the word)!
You can have a three in one computer. A laptop/desktop/and tablet but it’s one computer
You're making things waaaaay too complicated. God is the God of Truth, not a god of confusion.
All apostles/christians during Jesus time only had the Old Testament and other writings to figure who Christ is,even book of Enoch describes Jesus in verse. Way before he came.
why is it so hard for western post enlightenment minds to accept paradox...
The Trinity and the Nicene Creed Contradicts the Bible. All that the Nicene Creed did was take a vote and this took place about 325 AD well after the was compiled . There were lots confussion with the true nature of God after the persecution of the apostles and prophets. The Trinity is post biblical. As for me being a Mormon I believe in the pre-mortal existance (Ecclesiastes 12:7, Jeramiah 1:4-5, Acts 17:28, Ephesiasties 1:3-4, Hebrews 12:9, Jude 1:6, Revolations 12:9. Now Just by stating that lets get down to the Oneness that God talks about. The GodHead is unified, but however we believe that The 3 individuals are separate individuals that are ONE GOD IN PURPOSE, BUT NOT IN SUBSTANCE like the Trinitarians belief. We do believe that Jesus was Jehovah as a premortal being and under the fathers directions Jehovah did much of the creations in the old testiment. It is plainly mentioned in the Bible what was meant by the oneness if you read John 17:21. There are many other scripture passages (John 14:28, Acts 7:55,56, John 17:11,20-23). The New Testament speaks of Christ and the Father being in two separate places (John 17:3, Romans 15:6, 1 Timothy 2:5 and 1 Timothy 5:21). If you read in Gennesis Genesis 1:26 it states that there were multiples involved in the creations. I do not look at the Truth as something we vote on I believe the way I do through scripture study and revolation, and if you what to believe read James 1:5 and pray about it. Romy
Actually I am not totally sure what Brown Believes, he dances around the issue so artfully and spins so tactfully, he actually confuses more than simplifies. It appears to me he speaks with a forked tongue.
finally a wise answer , peace!
Every time I listen to this the projection that comes from the trinitarian side of the table is almost unbearable.
Jesus said He and the Father were One...not the same. Jesus is God's voice in human form. Jesus affirms, many times, that He is not the ultimate authority; the Father is. Jesus says He cannot send the Holy Spirit unless He returned to the Father (John 16:7). And Paul makes clear that there is a hierarchy in Heaven and Jesus will subject Himself to God the Father after all His enemies have been made His footstool. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
The 'Jesus' of trinitarians is a 'hologram' or mere 'human incarnation' of the Real Son of God who never came down from heavan because he is an essentail part of the 'trinity'! Thus hollow are Jesus words "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life ( Greek ='psychi' 'soul) on behalf of his friends. According to the trinity, that DIDNT happen for Jesus 'Soul' is claimed to have been intact as part of the trinity in heavan! Thus a mockery of Christ's Ransom. A mockery of God's love for us. A mocker of Christ's love for us too! No wonder it is not taught in any verse in the NT. If so, where?
Very true and well said.
The Trinity is a false faith and Gospel.
good point..and that's why people favor the son over the father..you cannot deny seeing that everywhere...christians view god the father as a mean, vengeful being but view jesus as the sweet innocent loving son who gave his life..but these 2 are the same, no? why is it that all i hear is mentioning of jesus and praying to jesus? why not IMITATE jesus 100% and pray to the father like he did? it makes absolutely no sense to me..
If Jesus is God, did the world then remain without God for three days when Jesus ("God") died?
Jesus is not God, no one can't come to the Father unless they come to Jesus first, he's the way, life and truth
the question is..is jesus the begotten son of god, or just the son of god in which case we are all his children.
If jesus was god, why did he eat and pray?
Okay. Who did the baptist say jesus is? The baptist didn't call him God. Didn't call him messiah. Baptist said "Behold the lamb of God who comes to atone for the sins of the world!" And that's exactly the role of Jesus 2000 years ago. You can believe the baptist. And what's with the blood of the new covenant this is my body this is my blood stuff? The lamb of God who came to be sacrificed and fulfill the temple sacrificial lamb stuff. Just as the baptist said. The whole temple was set up in order to be a living daily prophecy pointing toward the true lamb of god that was to come. "It is done". And the veil inside the temple was torn into pieces. So the jews are right to say Jesus was not the messiah. But on the other hand, they totally missed the whole lamb of God thing that their entire temple ceremonial system was set up to show them. His role as messiah will be at his second coming. His role 2000 years ago was the true lamb of God who came to atone for the sins of the world. The jews didn't miss the messiah, they missed the true lamb, and the building of this new third temple will be a final admission that they totally missed the point of who Jesus was.
And the words from heaven said "This is my son in whom i am very pleased"
I don't know why it's so hard to understand. What did Jesus say about himself just before ascension in order to try to finally resolve the mix-up in understanding? John 20:17. His final attempt to clarify couldn't be much more clear:
Jesus said to her, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.'"
Also please entertain this idea:
The god depicted in the old testament was not always the one true God but many, not all, depictions were of the false god. And this false god has deceived the entire world right from the start. Don't look to the end of days to be deceived, that's already been done from the start. And you know it. You very well feel this inside. That's why you've ask yourself. Why does Jesus appear to be mostly the opposite personality to the god depicted in the old testament? Most of the acts of god in the old testament were more like how a demon would behave, no? Yes! Can you imagine Jesus doing many of the things that were done by that god in the old book? No way! Wake up. The deception isn't coming, it began right after the start.
Jesus quoted from the old testament sometimes. But when it came to Moses, Jesus often rebuked moses. Saying things like "Moses commanded you to.... But i don't say that, i say this". What? Wasn't moses speaking for the true God? If so then why did Jesus rebuke many of the things that moses said came from God? I mean, the true God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, right? Don't cherry pick things from the old a new testaments that defend only what you believe. The law of moses specifically said that that woman caught in adultery was to be stoned to death immediately. But they brought her to Jesus just to test him on this. You know this story well as i do. So if the true God commanded through moses that the woman is to be killed, then why did Jesus say He doesn't condemn her to death? "Neither do i condemn you", and sent her home. If the true God told moses that woman should be killed, did Jesus then go against the true God? No. He didn't. Please wake up.
There is only One True GOD d ALMIGHTY FATHER is Spirit d EVERLASTING GOD creator of all things in Heaven n Earth,Lord JESUS His son is truly human NOT GOD d Savior n Mediator between GOD n man.Written in d Bible
Christ absolutely cannot be God.
Revelation 3:12
Revelation 3:14
Colossians 1:15
John 20:17
Here we clearly have the scriptures telling us that Christ himself has a God, therefore he cannot be God.
Furthermore the scriptures are also telling us that God the Most High created Jesus.
Question for Trinitarians:
So Jesus the Son of God the second person of the Trinity became a man in the form of Jesus Christ.
When the Son of God was here on earth
sacrificing himself for all of our sins, the first person of the Trinity (God the Father) &
the third person of the Trinity (Holy Spirit) were the only two persons of the Trinity left in Heaven as Jesus the Son of God was on earth dying for all mankind for our sins?
Is that correct?
Can you elaborate? If your question is if the trinity became 2, the answer is no, because Jesus came back to life.
Totally correct.
When you read Genesis chapter 41 and we see Pharaoh elevating Joseph to the second highest position in all of his house and the land of egypt. We see that the reason why Pharaoh says Joseph deserves or is worthy to be exalted to such a height the spirit of God is in him😊. It doesn't say he deserves to be elevated because he is pharaoh in contrast Pharaoh says I am pharaoh but no one will lift a hand or foot in Egypt without your word. This shows the relationship between the father and the son that the father is God but because he has chosen and placed his Spirit within his only begotten son he is worthy to be exalted to the second highest position in all of creation. We know that this is referring to Christ because Pharaoh goes on to tell all that are there to bow the need to Joseph. Does the scripture say at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess. It goes on to say that Pharaoh gave him a new name and a wife. Does the scripture say that the sun is giving her name and no one knows except the father and it says that he is giving the church as a bride. This is a Titan shadow that explains to us from the old covenant how God and his son were going to together bring about the salvation of his people.
The Trinity is Roman Catholicism and you won't find it anywhere in the early church Father's writings. Only after the Roman influences which lead up to the Council of Nicea in 325 will you find this. The first mention of a trinity is from Tertullian [a.d. 145-220] who gave a vague reference to it. Origen [a.d. 185-254] forwarded this concept and it was later accepted at the Counsel of Constantinople in 381 AD. Polycarp, Clement, and Ignatius who were before them never speak of a trinity.
There's no thing as trinity, it doesn't exist. Trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in the bible and Jesus never ever claims himself as God and he never ever claims divinity or say pray to me
Actually the trinity is in the Bible… in Revelation.
666 = three equal numbers that are all part of one whole number.
The statement, "Before Abraham was, I am," does not imply that Jesus was God before Abraham's birth but is a declaration that he existed prior to Abraham.
Explain how did he exist before Abraham then
@@dimitris_zahamillions of people existed before Abraham that doesn’t make anyone God.
@@dimitris_zaha
In the knowledge of God or with God in some way, like how jeremiah was already chosen to be a prophet in jeremiah 1:5 and God had already "chosen" many people before the creation of the world too.