Jon. Just wanted to let you know that I made the Angleset and really enjoyed the project twice. The first attempt, after drilling and reaming all 40ish holes I was so proud. I sat down with a angle gauge to show off my work and couldn’t believe Angleset was actually Anglenot. Oh the mortification! What went wrong? Must be Jon’s math. A little investigation, I realized it was cumulative error as I went from one set of x,y coordinates to the next set of x,y coordinates. The good news is I remade the Angleset going back to the origination datum for each angle. Came out great and I had a great time. Tested all angles and spot on. Thank you for such a good project, great instructions, taught me a valuable lesson. I’ve already used it successfully.
My first mill had the same issue with the column. It was one of those mini mills that everyone sold. I ended up bolting a steel plate under the mill that protruded out the back. Bolted an RSJ to the back of the column and then welded it to the base plate. Totally different machine after !!! Cheers Neil
I have a WM 16 mill and I've been planning on a similar mod as you describe. That joint area between column and base is responsible for a great deal of flexure in these bench mills. Fix that and they are as you say 'a different machine' altogether.
Howard ! It's best to weld as much as possible in place. You've probably thought of this already, but tram the mill in the YAxis and monitor it as you weld and or spacers between the columns and the RSJ. It will pull a bit !!
Interesting film. I liked the set up for the mister, clever idea to use the cycle bottle. Will be interesting also to see your stiffening up of the mill.
Hi Carl, thanks for the comment. The cycle bottle was about version 3 after I had unsuccessfully butchered some lesser used kitchen receptacles🤔. Cheers, Jon
I had a similar problem with my Sieg X3 mill. Head "Nod" was the name of the affliction. I fitted a gas strut to balance the weight of the head and filled the column and base with epoxy granite. It's better but also not a Bridgeport. Some Sieg owners welded up triangulated steel frames to bolt to the bench and the mill column. They also used these as enclosures to collect chips and coolant. Good luck with the fix. Regards Preso.
Thanks Mark, pretty sure we can improve it slightly with minimal effort. When it moves (with me) to it's final home and gets a bigger brother, it will probably get done properly. Cheers, Jon
Jon with the coolant bottle, to save the agro of trying to get to get the pipe out the top, unscrew the top and leave it dangling. Each of the other positions will have the pipe in another cap, just screw it onto the filled bottle. That will give you 3 spare bottles in case you damage the moveable one. The coolent is drawn into the mister nozzle by the air pressure sucking it out of the bottle. The bottle needs to be lower than the nozzle, and twisting the brass nozzle controls the ammount of liquid, the regulator controls the ammount of air. Typical pressure is 10 to 20 psi. No need to restrict the coolant flow to the nozzle with a hose clamp. Regards from Australia.
Thanks Dave, I will keep playing with it until I get it right. Need to fiddle some more, struggling to pull any coolant with less than 30 psi. Cheers, Jon
Gday Jon, congratulations on the 5k subscribers, great milestone to cross, it’s hard to believe how much movement there is in the column of the mill, no wonder you’ve had trouble, but I’m sure you’ll get it sorted, enjoyable video mate, cheers
Wow!! that is quite a bit of flex there Jon. It will be interesting if anchoring on the wall stops the flex, and if so, how much it improves the bouncing etc. I really should look into those coolant misters. I think that would help with tool life etc.
Great video Jon, I really appreciate the info on the mister system, and the rigidity project is interesting as well. looking forward to share your learning and so on, cheers!
You're right about the patents, Jon. They copy complete machines, not just the odd accessory. I was amazed at the amount of movement your mill head had. As you know, there's a lot more force using the quill. Hope you get it sorted. Cheers Tony
Great video Jon. I like the mist coolant idea. It's a worry about the movement in the mill. My mill is tiny compared to yours. A problem I notice on my one, is a slight movement when I lock the mill head. The Z read out changes on the DRO. Have adjusted the gib, but this doesn't help. Perhaps I over tighten the lock? Cheers Nobby
Hi, John. I have similar rigidity issues as you with my Warco WM16 mill. The bolted joint between the column and base is the main cause of rigidity related issues with all mills of this design. I believe the best solution is to create some extra gusseted bracing to beef up the column/base joint area. This could take the form of an additional steel base plate bolted to the underside of the base with an extended protrusion out at the rear and then create a set of steel bracing gussets to set against the rear and sides of the column. I would bed the gussets to the column with epoxy paste so there is full contact and then add some set screws/bolts to firmly fix the gussets to the column. I honestly don't think attaching to the wall would be nearly as effective as adding bracing to the column/base joint.
Hi Jon. The mister I have has two needle valves, one for the air and one for the coolant. I need to put a ball valve on for the air though as I'm still twiddling the needle valve on and off every time. Could be a good little project for you to make a needle valve for your coolant line! On the drawing front, if you ever want a second pair of eyes, let me know. I spend a good part of my working life reviewing drawings.
Hi Olly, thanks for the comment and suggestion, I need some more project ideas🤣🤣. Thanks for the 2nd pair of eyes too, might just take you up on that if I have any more bright ideas. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon for adding the M-2 and M-3 dimensions. I will be looking for them. I have already bought the drills -reamers and pins for the job. I attempted to buy some good grade tool steel and even considered just using 1018 cold roll but when you add the cost of shipping to very small quantities of steel now days it is shameful what they are expecting as cost especially shipping. I may try to find a local source of scraps for good quality steel. For the short term I ordered and have received some 6061 aluminum. I never dreamed aluminum would be cheaper than steel.
Hi Terry, thanks for the comment. I will absolutely add the additional holes soon(ish) 🤗. Yes, I have the same issue where I live, material supply is really a mail order only job for me, at least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a bloody mask! Cheers, Jon
Something came to me yesterday as I was cooling off with a bottle of ice water in the shade. I have some rectangular Castiron that I have been using to make Acme Lead Screw nuts out of. I may just mill down a piece of cast iron and use it. I'm thinking as long as I keep in my toolbox wrapped up it will not get chipped and will hold its dimensions well. I just refuse to pay today's prices for shipping. To me it seems to be extortion. I am looking forward to more of your great work. @@jonsworkshop
Hi Jon. There was a youtuber who did as you are going to do to the column. He rawlbolted a box section or angle iron to the brick wall & made a frame to the back of the column. From memory it cured the flex. Hope you sort it out. Luckily my little Tom Senior is very rigid & on it's own stand so not had any problems there. Mist coolant is something i have pondered for a long time mm. Might end up sopying your idea. Steve.
Hi, After I saw that a friend of Stefan Gotteswinter's probably screwed a similar milling machine to the wall, I wanted to try it too. • Optimum MB4 milling machine - Optimum... approx. at 0:43 In my opinion, there are a few prerequisites for this to work: 1.) the base plate of the milling machine must already be screwed to the floor or wall. 2.) If bolted to the floor, the floor should either not have a floating screed (but direct concrete) or the screed should have set a very long time. Proceed: Two angles welded from steel profile 40x40x5 mm, incl. bracing. Angle 250x220mm Screw each of the angles to the wall with 3 x 12mm threaded rods and to the column with 2 x M10. Threaded rods glued in with dowel adhesive In order to avoid tension when screwing, there is no direct contact between wall and bracket or bracket and column. Instead, the angles were first glued to the wall and to the column at the same time with the same dowel adhesive. As a result, no unnecessary tension is generated between the wall and column when tightening the screws. Measurement: was measured 1.) between the top of the column and a cabinet that is bolted to the wall. 2.) between the head and the table of the milling machine 3.) between the spindle and the router It was then measured twice in each case. A.) without force to determine the zero value for B.). B.) with 20kg = approx. 200N on the side of the spindle Results: Before mounting the bracket 1/B: 0.07mm 2/B: 0.03mm 3/B: forgot to measure After mounting the angle 1/B: 0.00mm 2/B: 0.00mm 3/B: 0.02mm Supposition: Before mounting the angle 1/B 0.07mm and 2/B 0.03mm match because when the column is deflected by the force, the top end moves about twice as far as the head of the router, because that's also about the distance corresponds to the potential pivot point. After mounting the angle Now the weakest point of the system seems to be the spindle to milling head connection. If interested: some photos on my "channel" --######################################## In your case (with a wooden wall) I would use a very big plate to screw it to the wall. This would spread the load and effectivly increase the stiffness of the wall material. If lucky, it will then behave like a concreate wall.
Does fully-synthetic coolant go off in the same way as the traditional and semi-synth types? It seems to be fantastically expensive. I have a Noga-Cool Mini, but these days I only use it with pure IPA. It does have separate air and coolant flow controls. I was wondering about a Fogbuster, but the cost is a bit mad. My new CNC machine will use high-pressure coolant sprays in an enclosed cabinet, so I'm wondering whether to invest in some fancy-pants fully-synthetic soluble coolant, but only if it's going to have a hugely long lifetime in the machine.
Hi, as mentioned I screwed the column to to concrete wall behind. When I apply a down-force of 100N (10kg) at the place where you pushed down and put an indicator at the same place( even a littel bit more to the front for a bigger leverage) I can read about 8/1000 mm or 0,0003". Maybe this helps to find the weak linkage. cheers Matthias
Hi Jon, I have similar mill from Amadeal, and it has exactly the same issue with column movement as yours, although not as bad. A DTI between the base and column shows about 40 micron mavement when pushing and pulling on the gearhead. Stefan Gotteswinters epoxy seating of column to base was because he found the base had an untrue face alowing the column to 'move however tightly it was bolted to base. I had considered doing similar to Stefan, but it is quite a daunting undertaking doing it on my own with such a heavy bit of machinery to work with.
To stiffen the mill, all you don't do will never work. So, bolting a thick plate to te back and/or fixing to the wall will always improove things. Go for it.
eyup Jon great idea with the coolant, i will certainly copy that soon, if you don't patent it🤣🤣🤣🤣as someone you know kindly gave me a "mista", i just need more time to get there, could do with a time machine to make more, as you know well. Also watching with interest on stiffening the mill column, as i only have a old cheap taiwanese bench mill that has major limitatations that i always have to wrestle with, but with perseverance i always win the fight. see you next time kev
I don't know the mill itself, but if the column is hollow, and not used for anything in it's interior, you can also fill it with sand, to dampen any vibration. No it won't stop it from moving, but it will help, and slow the movement. It's a great way to dampen machines. Better than solid material, since it absorbs and doesn't transmit.
I agree with you,bolting to the wall will add far less rigidity than adding an extra steel base plate to the underside of the base with the plate extending out the back and then add some well considered gusseting to attach to the column. That joint area needs beefing up and then vast improvements will be seen to the rigidity.
Rite Jon, good blether! Hope you get to the bottom of the problem with the mill, neat idea with the drinks bottles I have a few old ones (get them from cycle shows as freebies) 😁 Q: What do you do with all of your swarf, how do you get rid of it? As always Dude stay safe n well. TFS, GB :)
Hi Jon I have a warco mill very similar to yours. I was wondering if you knew what size boat i would need to use it as an anchor because its all its fit for. Cheers mate.
Lol, I feel like that sometimes, then I think you just have to make the best of what you have until something better arrives. This way you get twice the retail therapy. 😉
Hello Jon. I see the column moving backward when you lift the head There is some concern these days about air quality. The mist/oil settles on everything. House keeping is an issue and so is breathable air. Most CNC machines in the shop now feature mist collectors. Is that part of your plan as well?
Hi Jon, I enjoyed the video. All the best with the mill fix! 👍 Regarding the mister, if you have a big milling project, how will you deal with the coolant that builds up on the table after it has been sprayed? Regards Tony!
I would start checking your casting it sounds like you might have a casting with a lot of spider cracks. that vibarition will shake your building apart...
To eliminate the bending moment imparted to the z axis column by the weight of the head a compensating bending moment has to be applied. To minimise the resultant static forces applied to the leadscrew the compensating force vector should pass vertically through the centre of gravity oof the head, This also minimises the magnitude of the compensating forrce. If using a counterweight the wire/chain should ve vertical and effectively attached to the head along the vertical axis paasing through the centre of gravity of the head, Apair of chains symmetrically placed either side of thie axis passing vertically theough the centre of gravity should suffice if the forces applied by each chain/wire are identical.
One unwanted effect of bolting the mill to the wall is that on intermittent cuts like fly cutting, the vibration couples to the wall which then acts like a sound board, thus increasing the sound and spreading it to the other side of the wall.
Are you sure the wall will be stiff enough to stop the mill flexing? I'd expect it to move a thou or two when loaded which won't solve your problem. After all, they make machine tools out of cast iron, not wood! You can't fit a Bridgeport in, but what about a smaller knee mill. I have an Elliott Omnimill, about the same height as me, nice and rigid (within limits!) and has horizontal as well as vertical spindles. I guess you'd need to find one that's in need of a good deal of TLC if you're not going to spend a fortune, but the restoration would make some good video content.
Hi Mark, I live in the fridge for 10 months of the year lol. Just as well, I don't think Mrs Jon's Workshop will give me permission lol. Pretty sure lower temperature would help prolong life as it will impede bacterial growth which is the cause of deterioration. Cheers, Jon
I have optimum mb4 machine, what is similar machine than you. I fill base granite epoxy, scraping column and base surface, and scraping kolumn to fit column slide and get very good result to that. Allso i have 70kg conterweigh
My only question is if you are prepared for the cowpocalypse, which probably shouldn't be answered - we don't want the cows to know the nature of our preparations.
recently saw this fr the surface grinder ruclips.net/video/qYP6wd18_eY/видео.html , might be better than a mister as the mister blowing against the wheel will spread the greasy cloud through the whole shop , i allso agree with his reasoning that you need somewat of a flood over the piece to get a nice enough finish on it sumting i seen on other channels using the coolantmysters was that they used a small magbase for a DTI , aows you to place the business end of the mister on just about anything metal , makes it eazier to take those things with you to other machines if you need spray from more than one direction or only have one setup going / working think the columb brace should work , i think i send you the link to a video a while back from a guy that did the exact same thing to a much more flexible milling machine , though you need to tie both the top and bottom of the columb to the wall behind it to get the most rigidity to the mast , if it still moves its likely the dovetail connection to the head and you might need to check with machinist blue if the contact area is across the whole jib , if it only contacts dovetail in a small spot it could act as a fulcrum could allso check if the rotation point on the rear of the head and the front of the part it bolts too are absolutely flat , actually contacts all over (could be the hole where the rotation eeehr pin falls intoo isnt deep enough causing the head to float over the contact areas could allso check with machinist blue) and without burrs , if that the case it might be an eazy fix of the surface grinder both to flatten the surfaces or to shorten the "pin" my idea of checking with the dti is that if you stop measuring movement you at the fulcrum point of the play in the machine so the lesser the play the closer youre to the source , you should be able to use a verry fine dti the closer you get to it
Hi Jon, really enjoy your channel. Have a look at what Stefan did with the column to base joint on his mill. May have some application to your issue, if that happens to be the source of your column movement? ruclips.net/video/U7Qs-J2swIc/видео.html
Jon. Just wanted to let you know that I made the Angleset and really enjoyed the project twice. The first attempt, after drilling and reaming all 40ish holes I was so proud. I sat down with a angle gauge to show off my work and couldn’t believe Angleset was actually Anglenot. Oh the mortification! What went wrong? Must be Jon’s math. A little investigation, I realized it was cumulative error as I went from one set of x,y coordinates to the next set of x,y coordinates. The good news is I remade the Angleset going back to the origination datum for each angle. Came out great and I had a great time. Tested all angles and spot on. Thank you for such a good project, great instructions, taught me a valuable lesson. I’ve already used it successfully.
Well done Roy, glad it all worked out well for you in the end. You will hopefully get good use out of it 👍. Cheers, Jon
My first mill had the same issue with the column. It was one of those mini mills that everyone sold.
I ended up bolting a steel plate under the mill that protruded out the back. Bolted an RSJ to the back of the column and then welded it to the base plate. Totally different machine after !!!
Cheers Neil
I have a WM 16 mill and I've been planning on a similar mod as you describe. That joint area between column and base is responsible for a great deal of flexure in these bench mills. Fix that and they are as you say 'a different machine' altogether.
Howard !
It's best to weld as much as possible in place. You've probably thought of this already, but tram the mill in the YAxis and monitor it as you weld and or spacers between the columns and the RSJ. It will pull a bit !!
Interesting film. I liked the set up for the mister, clever idea to use the cycle bottle. Will be interesting also to see your stiffening up of the mill.
Hi Carl, thanks for the comment. The cycle bottle was about version 3 after I had unsuccessfully butchered some lesser used kitchen receptacles🤔. Cheers, Jon
Thanks for the Blether Jon.
Thanks Tom
I had a similar problem with my Sieg X3 mill. Head "Nod" was the name of the affliction. I fitted a gas strut to balance the weight of the head and filled the column and base with epoxy granite. It's better but also not a Bridgeport. Some Sieg owners welded up triangulated steel frames to bolt to the bench and the mill column. They also used these as enclosures to collect chips and coolant. Good luck with the fix.
Regards Preso.
Thanks Mark, pretty sure we can improve it slightly with minimal effort. When it moves (with me) to it's final home and gets a bigger brother, it will probably get done properly. Cheers, Jon
Nice variety Jon, shame about the mill shortcomings, looking forward to the remedial action.
Congratulations on 5K subscribers.
Thanks for sharing.
Hi John, thanks for the comment and feedback, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon . The head pivot was the cause on my 7045 . It had warped between the 2 faces . 👍
Thanks Max, we may need to go there, however only having one milling machine would mean I need to learn scraping lol. Cheers, Jon
Jon with the coolant bottle, to save the agro of trying to get to get the pipe out the top, unscrew the top and leave it dangling. Each of the other positions will have the pipe in another cap, just screw it onto the filled bottle. That will give you 3 spare bottles in case you damage the moveable one. The coolent is drawn into the mister nozzle by the air pressure sucking it out of the bottle. The bottle needs to be lower than the nozzle, and twisting the brass nozzle controls the ammount of liquid, the regulator controls the ammount of air. Typical pressure is 10 to 20 psi. No need to restrict the coolant flow to the nozzle with a hose clamp. Regards from Australia.
Thanks Dave, I will keep playing with it until I get it right. Need to fiddle some more, struggling to pull any coolant with less than 30 psi. Cheers, Jon
Congratulations Jon !!!!
Gday Jon, congratulations on the 5k subscribers, great milestone to cross, it’s hard to believe how much movement there is in the column of the mill, no wonder you’ve had trouble, but I’m sure you’ll get it sorted, enjoyable video mate, cheers
Thanks Matty, yeah, it's really flexing, let's hope we can firm it up a bit. Hope you're doing OK mate, keep the chin up! Cheers, Jon
Jon, have the same mist coolant, you should find the nozzle has a setting for coolant volume and also air volume
Hope you get it sorted Jon.
Thanks Dean, Cheers, Jon
Wow!! that is quite a bit of flex there Jon. It will be interesting if anchoring on the wall stops the flex, and if so, how much it improves the bouncing etc.
I really should look into those coolant misters. I think that would help with tool life etc.
Hi Jon, thanks for the comment. Don't grab one just yet, I am still struggling to get the desired effect out of mine, jury's out just now. Cheers, Jon
Great video Jon, I really appreciate the info on the mister system, and the rigidity project is interesting as well. looking forward to share your learning and so on, cheers!
Right on and Thanks Jon
Thanks Jim
You're right about the patents, Jon. They copy complete machines, not just the odd accessory. I was amazed at the amount of movement your mill head had. As you know, there's a lot more force using the quill. Hope you get it sorted. Cheers Tony
I really like the bike bottle idea, that's great.
Great video Jon. I like the mist coolant idea. It's a worry about the movement in the mill. My mill is tiny compared to yours. A problem I notice on my one, is a slight movement when I lock the mill head. The Z read out changes on the DRO. Have adjusted the gib, but this doesn't help. Perhaps I over tighten the lock? Cheers Nobby
Hi, John. I have similar rigidity issues as you with my Warco WM16 mill. The bolted joint between the column and base is the main cause of rigidity related issues with all mills of this design.
I believe the best solution is to create some extra gusseted bracing to beef up the column/base joint area. This could take the form of an additional steel base plate bolted to the underside of the base with an extended protrusion out at the rear and then create a set of steel bracing gussets to set against the rear and sides of the column.
I would bed the gussets to the column with epoxy paste so there is full contact and then add some set screws/bolts to firmly fix the gussets to the column. I honestly don't think attaching to the wall would be nearly as effective as adding bracing to the column/base joint.
Hi Jon. The mister I have has two needle valves, one for the air and one for the coolant. I need to put a ball valve on for the air though as I'm still twiddling the needle valve on and off every time. Could be a good little project for you to make a needle valve for your coolant line! On the drawing front, if you ever want a second pair of eyes, let me know. I spend a good part of my working life reviewing drawings.
Hi Olly, thanks for the comment and suggestion, I need some more project ideas🤣🤣. Thanks for the 2nd pair of eyes too, might just take you up on that if I have any more bright ideas. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon for adding the M-2 and M-3 dimensions. I will be looking for them. I have already bought the drills -reamers and pins for the job. I attempted to buy some good grade tool steel and even considered just using 1018 cold roll but when you add the cost of shipping to very small quantities of steel now days it is shameful what they are expecting as cost especially shipping. I may try to find a local source of scraps for good quality steel. For the short term I ordered and have received some 6061 aluminum. I never dreamed aluminum would be cheaper than steel.
Hi Terry, thanks for the comment. I will absolutely add the additional holes soon(ish) 🤗. Yes, I have the same issue where I live, material supply is really a mail order only job for me, at least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a bloody mask! Cheers, Jon
Something came to me yesterday as I was cooling off with a bottle of ice water in the shade. I have some rectangular Castiron that I have been using to make Acme Lead Screw nuts out of. I may just mill down a piece of cast iron and use it. I'm thinking as long as I keep in my toolbox wrapped up it will not get chipped and will hold its dimensions well. I just refuse to pay today's prices for shipping. To me it seems to be extortion. I am looking forward to more of your great work. @@jonsworkshop
Hi Jon. There was a youtuber who did as you are going to do to the column. He rawlbolted a box section or angle iron to the brick wall & made a frame to the back of the column. From memory it cured the flex. Hope you sort it out. Luckily my little Tom Senior is very rigid & on it's own stand so not had any problems there. Mist coolant is something i have pondered for a long time mm. Might end up sopying your idea.
Steve.
Hi,
After I saw that a friend of Stefan Gotteswinter's probably screwed a similar milling machine to the wall, I wanted to try it too. • Optimum MB4 milling machine - Optimum... approx. at 0:43
In my opinion, there are a few prerequisites for this to work:
1.) the base plate of the milling machine must already be screwed to the floor or wall.
2.) If bolted to the floor, the floor should either not have a floating screed (but direct concrete) or the screed should have set a very long time.
Proceed:
Two angles welded from steel profile 40x40x5 mm, incl. bracing. Angle 250x220mm
Screw each of the angles to the wall with 3 x 12mm threaded rods and to the column with 2 x M10.
Threaded rods glued in with dowel adhesive
In order to avoid tension when screwing, there is no direct contact between wall and bracket or bracket and column. Instead, the angles were first glued to the wall and to the column at the same time with the same dowel adhesive. As a result, no unnecessary tension is generated between the wall and column when tightening the screws.
Measurement:
was measured
1.) between the top of the column and a cabinet that is bolted to the wall.
2.) between the head and the table of the milling machine
3.) between the spindle and the router
It was then measured twice in each case.
A.) without force to determine the zero value for B.).
B.) with 20kg = approx. 200N on the side of the spindle
Results:
Before mounting the bracket
1/B: 0.07mm
2/B: 0.03mm
3/B: forgot to measure
After mounting the angle
1/B: 0.00mm
2/B: 0.00mm
3/B: 0.02mm
Supposition:
Before mounting the angle
1/B 0.07mm and 2/B 0.03mm match because when the column is deflected by the force, the top end moves about twice as far as the head of the router, because that's also about the distance corresponds to the potential pivot point.
After mounting the angle
Now the weakest point of the system seems to be the spindle to milling head connection.
If interested: some photos on my "channel"
--########################################
In your case (with a wooden wall) I would use a very big plate to screw it to the wall. This would spread the load and effectivly increase the stiffness of the wall material. If lucky, it will then behave like a concreate wall.
Good luck with the mill investigations Jon.
good video jon
Does fully-synthetic coolant go off in the same way as the traditional and semi-synth types? It seems to be fantastically expensive. I have a Noga-Cool Mini, but these days I only use it with pure IPA. It does have separate air and coolant flow controls. I was wondering about a Fogbuster, but the cost is a bit mad. My new CNC machine will use high-pressure coolant sprays in an enclosed cabinet, so I'm wondering whether to invest in some fancy-pants fully-synthetic soluble coolant, but only if it's going to have a hugely long lifetime in the machine.
Hi,
as mentioned I screwed the column to to concrete wall behind.
When I apply a down-force of 100N (10kg) at the place where you pushed down and put an indicator at the same place( even a littel bit more to the front for a bigger leverage) I can read about 8/1000 mm or 0,0003".
Maybe this helps to find the weak linkage.
cheers
Matthias
Hi Jon, I have similar mill from Amadeal, and it has exactly the same issue with column movement as yours, although not as bad. A DTI between the base and column shows about 40 micron mavement when pushing and pulling on the gearhead. Stefan Gotteswinters epoxy seating of column to base was because he found the base had an untrue face alowing the column to 'move however tightly it was bolted to base. I had considered doing similar to Stefan, but it is quite a daunting undertaking doing it on my own with such a heavy bit of machinery to work with.
To stiffen the mill, all you don't do will never work. So, bolting a thick plate to te back and/or fixing to the wall will always improove things. Go for it.
eyup Jon
great idea with the coolant, i will certainly copy that soon, if you don't patent it🤣🤣🤣🤣as someone you know kindly gave me a "mista", i just need more time to get there, could do with a time machine to make more, as you know well. Also watching with interest on stiffening the mill column, as i only have a old cheap taiwanese bench mill that has major limitatations that i always have to wrestle with, but with perseverance i always win the fight.
see you next time
kev
I don't know the mill itself, but if the column is hollow, and not used for anything in it's interior, you can also fill it with sand, to dampen any vibration. No it won't stop it from moving, but it will help, and slow the movement. It's a great way to dampen machines. Better than solid material, since it absorbs and doesn't transmit.
Hi Joh I'm not sure attaching the mill to the wall is the fix you are looking for. I think the column needs better bracing?????????
I agree with you,bolting to the wall will add far less rigidity than adding an extra steel base plate to the underside of the base with the plate extending out the back and then add some well considered gusseting to attach to the column. That joint area needs beefing up and then vast improvements will be seen to the rigidity.
Rite Jon, good blether! Hope you get to the bottom of the problem with the mill, neat idea with the drinks bottles I have a few old ones (get them from cycle shows as freebies) 😁 Q: What do you do with all of your swarf, how do you get rid of it? As always Dude stay safe n well. TFS, GB :)
Hi Jon
I have a warco mill very similar to yours. I was wondering if you knew what size boat i would need to use it as an anchor because its all its fit for.
Cheers mate.
Lol, I feel like that sometimes, then I think you just have to make the best of what you have until something better arrives. This way you get twice the retail therapy. 😉
Hello Jon. I see the column moving backward when you lift the head There is some concern these days about air quality. The mist/oil settles on everything. House keeping is an issue and so is breathable air. Most CNC machines in the shop now feature mist collectors. Is that part of your plan as well?
Hi Jon, I enjoyed the video.
All the best with the mill fix! 👍
Regarding the mister, if you have a big milling project, how will you deal with the coolant that builds up on the table after it has been sprayed?
Regards Tony!
I would think a collector bottle attached to the table drain would sort that issue out quite simply.
I would start checking your casting it sounds like you might have a casting with a lot of spider cracks. that vibarition will shake your building apart...
Thanks for the advice William. Cheers, Jon
To eliminate the bending moment imparted to the z axis column by the weight of the head a compensating bending moment has to be applied. To minimise the resultant static forces applied to the leadscrew the compensating force vector should pass vertically through the centre of gravity oof the head, This also minimises the magnitude of the compensating forrce. If using a counterweight the wire/chain should ve vertical and effectively attached to the head along the vertical axis paasing through the centre of gravity of the head, Apair of chains symmetrically placed either side of thie axis passing vertically theough the centre of gravity should suffice if the forces applied by each chain/wire are identical.
Thanks Bruce, if we have to go down this route I will be considering carefully how best to do it. Cheers, Jon
One unwanted effect of bolting the mill to the wall is that on intermittent cuts like fly cutting, the vibration couples to the wall which then acts like a sound board, thus increasing the sound and spreading it to the other side of the wall.
Are you sure the wall will be stiff enough to stop the mill flexing? I'd expect it to move a thou or two when loaded which won't solve your problem. After all, they make machine tools out of cast iron, not wood!
You can't fit a Bridgeport in, but what about a smaller knee mill. I have an Elliott Omnimill, about the same height as me, nice and rigid (within limits!) and has horizontal as well as vertical spindles. I guess you'd need to find one that's in need of a good deal of TLC if you're not going to spend a fortune, but the restoration would make some good video content.
Hi Jon.
Q- best purchase for workshop. Highest and lowest cost
Q- worst purchase
Q- what is on your wishlist
Cheers Jim
Would the coolant last longer if you put it in a fridge between uses?
Hi Mark, I live in the fridge for 10 months of the year lol. Just as well, I don't think Mrs Jon's Workshop will give me permission lol. Pretty sure lower temperature would help prolong life as it will impede bacterial growth which is the cause of deterioration. Cheers, Jon
I have optimum mb4 machine, what is similar machine than you. I fill base granite epoxy, scraping column and base surface, and scraping kolumn to fit column slide and get very good result to that. Allso i have 70kg conterweigh
have you got a paypal account yet? re: q&a how do you keep your hands & nails so clean?
My only question is if you are prepared for the cowpocalypse, which probably shouldn't be answered - we don't want the cows to know the nature of our preparations.
Very true
recently saw this fr the surface grinder ruclips.net/video/qYP6wd18_eY/видео.html , might be better than a mister as the mister blowing against the wheel will spread the greasy cloud through the whole shop , i allso agree with his reasoning that you need somewat of a flood over the piece to get a nice enough finish on it
sumting i seen on other channels using the coolantmysters was that they used a small magbase for a DTI , aows you to place the business end of the mister on just about anything metal , makes it eazier to take those things with you to other machines if you need spray from more than one direction or only have one setup going / working
think the columb brace should work , i think i send you the link to a video a while back from a guy that did the exact same thing to a much more flexible milling machine , though you need to tie both the top and bottom of the columb to the wall behind it to get the most rigidity to the mast ,
if it still moves its likely the dovetail connection to the head and you might need to check with machinist blue if the contact area is across the whole jib , if it only contacts dovetail in a small spot it could act as a fulcrum could allso check if the rotation point on the rear of the head and the front of the part it bolts too are absolutely flat , actually contacts all over (could be the hole where the rotation eeehr pin falls intoo isnt deep enough causing the head to float over the contact areas could allso check with machinist blue) and without burrs , if that the case it might be an eazy fix of the surface grinder both to flatten the surfaces or to shorten the "pin"
my idea of checking with the dti is that if you stop measuring movement you at the fulcrum point of the play in the machine so the lesser the play the closer youre to the source , you should be able to use a verry fine dti the closer you get to it
Hi Jon, really enjoy your channel. Have a look at what Stefan did with the column to base joint on his mill. May have some application to your issue, if that happens to be the source of your column movement? ruclips.net/video/U7Qs-J2swIc/видео.html
Does the bottle need to be mounted lower to keep the coolant from siphoning out when not in use.