Does not matter if Brian Goetz covers a technical topic or a high level. He always delivers and he is a treasure for the Java ecosystem. Thanks for sharing this!
Java itself is fine, has developed quite good in recent years. But the framework ecosystem, especially Spring, is a complete antithesis to what is said about complexity here. Still rather be on the JVM than doing that C# .NET stuff... these kids are going places.
I don't think Spring is so unbearably complex, rather it has evolved quite impressively over the 20(!) years managing to stay relevant. But there isn't a single framework and a single language on the JVM, right? ;) (Kotlin, Ktor, wink-wink)
@@AntonArhipov As is said, Java itself and the JVM is ok, borderline very good even. But having worked with go lately and some very lightweight frameworks in that ecosystem, i beg to differ. Spring is unbearably complex at places. But hey Java and Spring still pay my bills, and i get stuff done with it... it's just the fun has gone for me.
@@prdoyleBoot doesn't simplify by removing complexity. Boot is plastering over the complexity to make it look simple. Which is fine as long as the resulting artwork does what you need, but it's still very complex underneath
14:16 There is also the class file format baggage, which is anecdotally blamed on a prior engagement at the opera. Though this is an example of too little efficiency rather than too much complexity.
Excellent impression of the My Dinner With Andre guy! 😂 edit: Complexity: "you always blame me for stuff you do" Complexity's kid: "remember that solution we shipped that required extra effort to support and you said we'd fix it later, and you..." Complexity: "it twirrled up!" Complexity's kid: "...and you weren't wearing any underwear" Complexity: "your reworded movie quote is falling flat" Complexity's kid: "ugh"
Does not matter if Brian Goetz covers a technical topic or a high level. He always delivers and he is a treasure for the Java ecosystem. Thanks for sharing this!
We're lucky to have a guy that "get it" steering the ship.
Java itself is fine, has developed quite good in recent years.
But the framework ecosystem, especially Spring, is a complete antithesis to what is said about complexity here.
Still rather be on the JVM than doing that C# .NET stuff... these kids are going places.
I don't think Spring is so unbearably complex, rather it has evolved quite impressively over the 20(!) years managing to stay relevant.
But there isn't a single framework and a single language on the JVM, right? ;) (Kotlin, Ktor, wink-wink)
@@AntonArhipov As is said, Java itself and the JVM is ok, borderline very good even. But having worked with go lately and some very lightweight frameworks in that ecosystem, i beg to differ. Spring is unbearably complex at places. But hey Java and Spring still pay my bills, and i get stuff done with it... it's just the fun has gone for me.
@@tobyzieglerrr I know the feeling.
Spring Boot was the virtuous collapse.
@@prdoyleBoot doesn't simplify by removing complexity. Boot is plastering over the complexity to make it look simple. Which is fine as long as the resulting artwork does what you need, but it's still very complex underneath
very wisdom idea, thanks, Brian
14:16 There is also the class file format baggage, which is anecdotally blamed on a prior engagement at the opera. Though this is an example of too little efficiency rather than too much complexity.
Excellent impression of the My Dinner With Andre guy! 😂
edit:
Complexity: "you always blame me for stuff you do"
Complexity's kid: "remember that solution we shipped that required extra effort to support and you said we'd fix it later, and you..."
Complexity: "it twirrled up!"
Complexity's kid: "...and you weren't wearing any underwear"
Complexity: "your reworded movie quote is falling flat"
Complexity's kid: "ugh"
Description of Hibernate and JPA. See Persism.