There have been many stories about 17th and 18th century sightseers committing vandalism on ancient stones and tombs. The 19th century was more respectful, it seems, or at least more preservationist-minded. Apparently the only way to keep some things from being destroyed by curiosity is to make them completely inaccessible.
Thank you so much for this video. I’ve heard stories about Queen Katherine’s remains a couple of times before, but it never quite gelled in my mind that she is actually Henry VII’s grandmother. Thank you for providing that bit as well in your video!
I love Henry V's wooing of Kate, as written by Shakespeare. She has been played on the silver screen by Emma Thompson (with Kenneth Branagh), but most memorably by Renee Asherson opposite Sir Laurence Olivier. So medieval looking. Wonderful costumes. But most importantly a fine young actress in the best version of Henry V.
Allen YoU deserve more clicks I love Katherine. Love her choice of Owen Tudor pissing off the snobs. I would like to have known them. Jasper as a gd hero.
Thank you, I'm always glad to get the clicks. It was clearly a love match between Katherine and Owen, such a shame it was cut short by her untimely death.
@@allanbarton merci, diolch, danke, thanks again allan, really dont know why your episodes dont have millions of views, you def deserve many many more... as the welsh historian Nathen Amin , who looks at the origins of the welsh tudor dynasty...in his 2024 book, henry tudor, earl of richmond the son of prophecy... says, it is a common yorkist myth, that Sir owen tudor was of any lower birth, or more scandalous.. than any illegitmate beaufourts ...a cadet branch of katherine swynford, a mere mistress to prince john of gaunt, is almost laughable if not a joke comparison.. indeed his family were *not only foreign, unkown exotic welsh nobility, desecdenants from king rhys ap tewdar died 1093, but also had associations with prince llewellyn the great and the kings of gwynedd & the contempary of alfred the great... RHODRI MAWR, rhodrick the great..., who ruled wales for over 40years... anything but of common birth... or poor,, of course in england, the family were of nobodies, or totally unkown , in a language few could even understand... essentially the TUDORS were very reluctant servants to the lancastrian dynasty after HENRY IV bolingbroke became king... because of the nature of RICHARD II being deposed & the rebellion of welsh ..prince owen glendower 1400-1415, the heir presumtive being the MORTIMERS, not lancastrians and HENRY IV seizing the throne.. all of this is discussed in detail in helen castor recent 2024 book,... the scandal is that a mere royal servant, was in a relationship with the dowager queen...let alone a secret or clandestine marriage, but earlier in history, katherine swynford ..governess to lancastrian children,..Henry of bolingbroke etc... shocked western europe...for essentially doing the exact same ,,, a morgantic marriage** of love to a very wealthy and important, RED PRINCE, john of ghent* gaunt...in detail in Helen clark recent book... the beaufourts, the bastard line that captured, 2 thrones, england & scotland... the book by nathen amin... details their relationship with the tudors of wales... and queen catherine of valois relationship with cardinal henry beaufourt, duke of bedford, the lancastrians and HENRY V etc.. its all complex as HENRY VI was a young boy & period of a regent that detested sir owen tudor...
This channel has gradually shifted my opinion on certain dynasties...or rather, I now sincerely feel that there was a Worst Tudor, and he was Henry VIII.
I'm not sure he was quite the worst, but certainly as capricious as they come. Just finished watching The Mirror and the Light and Henry VIII, fictional as this was, rather came down in my estimation.
A regular viewer and lover of your videos! Thought it was time to leave a comment. This was certainly a most interesting video, and I learnt a great deal! I had been under the impression from previous videos that her coffin was uncaringly placed in some corner or something, but it somewhat pleased me greatly to hear that was not quite the case. We can look at the actions of those paid to see her remains as disrespectful, and indeed, I would say it was so. But I suppose we should also take into the fact that it was simply another time and that if the chance and opportunity were there, would some individuals behave the same way today to satisfy morbid curiosity? I would think so.
Thank you, Allan, for your further clarification of how the Queen's remains came to be un-entombed, and what happened following that. I've seen the the chantry chapel and altar, and am grateful for your in-depth history.
I saw her effigy in the Abbey Museum last fall. Thank you so much for this interesting video which greatly expands the information I’d previously read.
Thank you that sensible video! Three of my favourite portraits there: Kings Henry VI and VII, and my crush Samuel Pepys - so frank, so funny, and so awful!
Fascinating content, as always! I'm amazed that her carved funeral effigy has been able to survive when so much desecration was done to her body. How did the carved effigy survive, by the way, without the dutiful monks there to protect the tombs? Thank you for creating this informative video!
It is one of a collection of such effigies, they were kept in the upper chapel of Abbot Islip’s chantry and forgotten about. Later they were put in cabinets and shown to visitors. They were known collectively as the ‘ragged regiment’.
@@laurabrowning7973 I think it is due to vandalism and decay over the years. A lot of the effigies were stored during the Second World War in a basement room close to the Abbey chapter house, and they were very badly damaged in the process - the ones of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York were particularly badly damaged.
@@allanbarton5333 Thank you so much for your response! That's a shame about Henry Vll and Elizabeth of York's effigies. It would have been nice to see what she really looked like if her effigy was also made from a death mask. Thank you again for your response. Take care.
If the female line was considered - ignoring Joan II of Navarre and her disputed legitimacy - Edward III still wouldn't be heir because Philip V and Charles IV had daughters and Isabella was the youngest of Philip IV, instead the heir would be Philip of Burgundy - a grandson of Philip V.
Ever since I read about the Affair of the Necklace (Jeanne de Saint-Rémy de Valois), during Marie Antoinette's reign, I always seem to see the name Valois in historical articles and documentaries. I feel like the name Valois is cursed; the family is always in some sort of trouble and always murdered, jailed and demoted or banished.
@@allanbarton He is indeed a fascinating read, a man of remarkable reforming bureaucratic accomplishment and truly the saviour of the Royal Navy of his day. The kissing of an old dead queen was both brave and a sign of great respect.
It seems from your video that disemboweling and wrapping a corpse with seer cloth does indeed mummify the body. Perhaps the seer cloth makes it air tight.
That belief of being made of glass was a bit of a 'fad' at points in history. Usually it affected women, (who do tend to be more prone to outbreaks of mass hysteria.)
i am of the *personal* opinion that the madness of Charles VI was transmitted through Katherine, to all of the Tudors. they were all rather tetchy and more than a little fey and peculiar.
Your channel helps me cope with our current strange days. Thank you sir!
My pleasure, we do indeed live in strange times. I find focusing on the past does help make sense of the present.
"What did Samuel Pepys wife think?" I would say that the real question is how many years was it before she allowed his lips to touch HERS again.
😆
Katherine of Valois is one of my favourite mediaeval queen consorts of England so I greatly appreciate you doing a video on her, thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
There have been many stories about 17th and 18th century sightseers committing vandalism on ancient stones and tombs. The 19th century was more respectful, it seems, or at least more preservationist-minded. Apparently the only way to keep some things from being destroyed by curiosity is to make them completely inaccessible.
Thank you so much for this video. I’ve heard stories about Queen Katherine’s remains a couple of times before, but it never quite gelled in my mind that she is actually Henry VII’s grandmother. Thank you for providing that bit as well in your video!
So good to hear the historian's fuller and deeper view, rather than sensationalist nonsense. Thanks Allan!
I always learn so much from your videos. Without fail, they are always so fascinating! 👑
Glad you’re enjoying my channel 😊
Another excellent piece. You cover the history of the Queen’s posthumous misadventures very well. One can be very glad she now rests in peace.
Thanks very much, glad you enjoyed this!
Excellent and clearly delivered, as usual, thank you!
Many thanks!
Great video! Wonderful detail. I love hearing about Westminster; would love to visit it one day.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Another quality video. Thank you Dr. for your hard work and sharing your knowledge ❤ ❤ 😊
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it!
The story of Owen Tudor and Queen Katherine is the stuff of historical romance novels.
I love Henry V's wooing of Kate, as written by Shakespeare. She has been played on the silver screen by Emma Thompson (with Kenneth Branagh), but most memorably by Renee Asherson opposite Sir Laurence Olivier. So medieval looking. Wonderful costumes. But most importantly a fine young actress in the best version of Henry V.
I have always found that effigy very moving.
It is a wonderful survival - very moving.
Allen YoU deserve more clicks
I love Katherine. Love her choice of Owen Tudor pissing off the snobs. I would like to have known them. Jasper as a gd hero.
Thank you, I'm always glad to get the clicks. It was clearly a love match between Katherine and Owen, such a shame it was cut short by her untimely death.
@@allanbarton merci, diolch, danke, thanks again allan, really dont know why your episodes dont have millions of views, you def deserve many many more...
as the welsh historian Nathen Amin , who looks at the origins of the welsh tudor dynasty...in his 2024 book, henry tudor, earl of richmond the son of prophecy...
says, it is a common yorkist myth, that Sir owen tudor was of any lower birth, or more scandalous.. than any illegitmate beaufourts ...a cadet branch of katherine swynford, a mere mistress to prince john of gaunt, is almost laughable if not a joke comparison..
indeed his family were *not only foreign, unkown exotic welsh nobility, desecdenants from king rhys ap tewdar died 1093,
but also had associations with prince llewellyn the great and the kings of gwynedd & the contempary of alfred the great...
RHODRI MAWR, rhodrick the great..., who ruled wales for over 40years...
anything but of common birth... or poor,, of course in england, the family were of nobodies, or totally unkown , in a language few could even understand...
essentially the TUDORS were very reluctant servants to the lancastrian dynasty after HENRY IV bolingbroke became king...
because of the nature of RICHARD II being deposed & the rebellion of welsh ..prince owen glendower 1400-1415, the heir presumtive being the MORTIMERS, not lancastrians and HENRY IV seizing the throne..
all of this is discussed in detail in helen castor recent 2024 book,...
the scandal is that a mere royal servant, was in a relationship with the dowager queen...let alone a secret or clandestine marriage, but earlier in history, katherine swynford ..governess to lancastrian children,..Henry of bolingbroke etc...
shocked western europe...for essentially doing the exact same ,,, a morgantic marriage** of love to a very wealthy and important, RED PRINCE, john of ghent* gaunt...in detail in Helen clark recent book...
the beaufourts, the bastard line that captured, 2 thrones, england & scotland...
the book by nathen amin... details their relationship with the tudors of wales... and queen catherine of valois relationship with cardinal henry beaufourt, duke of bedford, the lancastrians and HENRY V etc.. its all complex as HENRY VI was a young boy & period of a regent that detested sir owen tudor...
This channel has gradually shifted my opinion on certain dynasties...or rather, I now sincerely feel that there was a Worst Tudor, and he was Henry VIII.
The worst!
I'm not sure he was quite the worst, but certainly as capricious as they come. Just finished watching The Mirror and the Light and Henry VIII, fictional as this was, rather came down in my estimation.
Wonderful thank you 👍👏👏👏🇬🇧
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
A regular viewer and lover of your videos! Thought it was time to leave a comment.
This was certainly a most interesting video, and I learnt a great deal! I had been under the impression from previous videos that her coffin was uncaringly placed in some corner or something, but it somewhat pleased me greatly to hear that was not quite the case.
We can look at the actions of those paid to see her remains as disrespectful, and indeed, I would say it was so.
But I suppose we should also take into the fact that it was simply another time and that if the chance and opportunity were there, would some individuals behave the same way today to satisfy morbid curiosity? I would think so.
Great to hear from you! A balanced overview, one that I’m inclined to agree with.
Thank you for making the true story clear at last.
Love this chanel ' bout English middle age history.
Thank you!
Thank you. I do enjoy your channel. Historical Information delivered in a succinct manner. 😀
Thanks very much, glad you enjoy my work 😊
Thank you, Allan, for your further clarification of how the Queen's remains came to be un-entombed, and what happened following that. I've seen the the chantry chapel and altar, and am grateful for your in-depth history.
Have you been on the chantry? It is fascinating, I remember going in back in the mid nineties. Such a beautiful and intimate space.
Unfortunately I was not in the chantry. How I would love that!
How very sad that a queen of our realm be treated with such distain.
Katherine was a beautiful woman and Henry 5th was a handsome man. Thank You once again really enjoyed your video!
Very good. Thank you.
I saw her effigy in the Abbey Museum last fall. Thank you so much for this interesting video which greatly expands the information I’d previously read.
Glad it was helpful!
Very interesting video. Thank you very much for sharing this. Have a great day 😊
Always love your content!🎉❤
Thanks very much!
Thank you ❤
You're welcome 😊
Thank you that sensible video! Three of my favourite portraits there: Kings Henry VI and VII, and my crush Samuel Pepys - so frank, so funny, and so awful!
Samuel Pepys for a crush.....he gives me creep vibes 😖
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Amazing video
Thanks!
More please on H V & H Vii. Awesome video, watching from Wash DC, love this channel.
Glad you’re enjoying my videos! 😊
Highly enjoyable romp through late medieval history.
Fascinating content, as always! I'm amazed that her carved funeral effigy has been able to survive when so much desecration was done to her body. How did the carved effigy survive, by the way, without the dutiful monks there to protect the tombs? Thank you for creating this informative video!
It is one of a collection of such effigies, they were kept in the upper chapel of Abbot Islip’s chantry and forgotten about. Later they were put in cabinets and shown to visitors. They were known collectively as the ‘ragged regiment’.
@@allanbarton That is so interesting; thank you! Do you know what happened to her arms? (The effigy's arms, that is...)
@@laurabrowning7973 I think it is due to vandalism and decay over the years. A lot of the effigies were stored during the Second World War in a basement room close to the Abbey chapter house, and they were very badly damaged in the process - the ones of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York were particularly badly damaged.
@@allanbarton5333 Thank you so much for your response! That's a shame about Henry Vll and Elizabeth of York's effigies. It would have been nice to see what she really looked like if her effigy was also made from a death mask. Thank you again for your response. Take care.
Alan, have you done one on Thomas à Becket, given what is going on with Bishop Budde over there?
Not a video, but I did write and article on Thomas of Canterbury for the December magazine.
If the female line was considered - ignoring Joan II of Navarre and her disputed legitimacy - Edward III still wouldn't be heir because Philip V and Charles IV had daughters and Isabella was the youngest of Philip IV, instead the heir would be Philip of Burgundy - a grandson of Philip V.
Sadly that’s not what he thought!
@@allanbarton Probably his mother who 'forgot'
Hi Allan! One would be hard pressed to find a more interesting story. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
"You know what, it's my birthday. I want to kiss a mummified queen!" Is a sentence someone once said to themselves.
Ever since I read about the Affair of the Necklace (Jeanne de Saint-Rémy de Valois), during Marie Antoinette's reign, I always seem to see the name Valois in historical articles and documentaries. I feel like the name Valois is cursed; the family is always in some sort of trouble and always murdered, jailed and demoted or banished.
Mr Pepys really was a strange, frankly altogether unpleasant, character...
To each their own . . .
A man of the Restoration in all respects - I find his diary endlessly amusing.
Samuel Pepys doth give me ye crepys...
@@allanbarton He is indeed a fascinating read, a man of remarkable reforming bureaucratic accomplishment and truly the saviour of the Royal Navy of his day.
The kissing of an old dead queen was both brave and a sign of great respect.
@@EarlyMusicDiva : )
It seems from your video that disemboweling and wrapping a corpse with seer cloth does indeed mummify the body. Perhaps the seer cloth makes it air tight.
It does, I’ve got a video on the channel that explores this - the Queen’s Lead-lined coffin.
❤❤❤
I daresay Pepys' wife might have done best not to worry too much about who he chose to kiss...
Well how bizarre. Paying to look at dead bodies Pepys kissing the body.
I bet people would do it now if they could Chris.
No wonder Charles VI was mad, I would be too if I was forced to wear my own curtains…
The history of Kings and Queens of England is very interesting. I certainly am glad we don't have Kings and Queens in America.
Strange human behavior is indeed nothing new.
That belief of being made of glass was a bit of a 'fad' at points in history. Usually it affected women, (who do tend to be more prone to outbreaks of mass hysteria.)
🩷💜💙
i am of the *personal* opinion that the madness of Charles VI
was transmitted through Katherine, to all of the Tudors.
they were all rather tetchy and more than a little fey and peculiar.
*Oddly enough, she was Henry VIII's great grandmother. Henry VIII certainly didn't honor her.
What young man cares much for their ancestry when there are wars to fight.
hyperthyroidism?
Underactive Thyroid
Thank you ❤