I think another reason we interpret sora as a victim and not icicle is because of their tribes. The mudwings are almost always portrayed in a positive light and with her connection to clay our brains piece together this tragedy that should have been prevented. Vs icewings after the first arc are constantly painted negatively, winter snowfall and lynx are the exceptions, all other icewings we view as corrupt. Subconsciously we expected atrocities from icicle and refuse to change our perception due to circumstance.
A thing no one really talks about is how similar Sora and Icicle are. They’ve lost a sibling and they’d do anything to avenge them, even if it means doing bad things. Rather than facing the consequences of their actions, they took matters into their own hands and made things even worse. Now Sora’s on the run and Icicle’s in prison
That's why I'd love a Winglet where Icicle sends Winter some letters before the trial, and then he directs her to Sora. They both would argue at first, but soon learn to understand how they're not all that different and make amends
I think it could be like Moon said before. “And some of them do really cruel things. But everyone has both good thoughts and bad thoughts and reasons for what they do, reasons they believe are important.” And also When winter asked if she thought icicle was evil, she said “She is doing what she thinks she has to do to save her brother. I wouldn’t make the choices she did, and she needs to be stopped. But I think I understand them, its very cold and intense inside her head.. i guess, i think it would be hard to grow up like she did, when you know your parents expect big things from you.” So i think those quotes are my thoughts on both sora and icicle. I can understand where they both came from. They are similar
I agree with this, I feel like Icicle being more Villainized than Sora was upsetting. Icicle was just under a lot of pressure at the time and Sora just saw Icicle as a target instead of talking to her about the war or getting to know here a little bit better before attacking her. I want to see a winglet about Icicle and her family’s reaction (or just her in the rainforest trying to escape) or Sora getting punished.
I completely agree. Both are bad in their own ways, but one gets more villianized. I hope later in the books Sora gets some sort of punishment for what she did.
I agree! If we get a Winglet on Sora & Umber, I really hope it ends with Sora agreeing to be detained for what she had done and finally apologizing to Icicle. It would be really nice to see them make amends! (The perfect Winglet idea would be Icicle sending letters to Winter, and then him directing her towards Sora instead. They would then communicate, though both hostile at first, and soon come to understand that they're not that different.)
@Dogloverlkesdoge I think it would be perfect for arc4 to, instead of the next generation of dragonets, have Sora, Icicle, Cobra, Sirocco, Rattlesnake, Chameleon, Vulture, Marsh, Fierceteeth, Strongwings, and Wasp as the protaginists. Since all of them are FUGITIVE/CRIMINALS/HATE THEIR TRIBE/HATE THEIR QUEEN what if they were forced to work together. I also want to see more of Orchid, Sundew's parents, and Blaze. I want it to be about them trying to overthrow the queens/about male's being able to challenge the queen for the throne/about them trying to re-alive dead dragons/about there being a democracy. Also something about the next Silk-wing. I have no idea how the arc should end but at least a few of the dragons mentioned above ⬆⬆⬆should have emotional deaths/happy endings. Also maybe the eye of onyx getting destroyed.
@Dogloverlkesdoge I disagree with you and think that neither of them should be villainized. There was no way that Icicle could have gotten her brother Hailstorm back without doing what Scarlet told her. If Sora had told someone, they would have propably just been separated because Icicle didn't specifically kill Crane and killed other dragons in the war. But as Moon had heard in other dragons thoughts in Jade Mountain, "It's easy for the dragonets to talk about forgivness, they weren't in the war." And when you said Sora had no remorse and just said the it was collateral damage, there were other students within Jade Mountain at the time (Flame, Carnelian, Icicle, Onyx) who would feel the same way. Even though what both of them did was still technically wrong, just because a dragon does something wrong does not mean they deserve to be villainized.
icicle was basically a rat in the books, but she got villainized because of this meanwhile sora commits attempted murder twice and gets treated like 'precious bean must protec' instead of being percieved as the next best dateline killer. like, how does one do that?
@@Dogloverlikesdoge you’re right I don’t like snowfall even though her actions and why she’s like that is justified for me a characters personality is more than a very flawed character Who goes through a lot of development to be a better person In the end sure Sora is nicer but that doesn’t make her actions justified And Icicle is mean and people don’t like her and give the sympathy over to sora Because she’s more likable
I was honestly convinced icicle as a villain, until I saw the way she was treating her self beating herself up about something she didn’t do. She felt like it was her responsibility to get him back. Sora was this exact same They felt like they had to get revenge because cran died because of them like it was their fault.
Thank you to Squidles for practically inspiring this video! Your take on this topic really got me thinking about it. Just to clarify, I do believe that both Icicle and Sora have done some unforgivable actions in the past. Neither of them really should be sympathized with in some cases, but there is a level of understanding that comes with the two of them. The circumstances, even though they did play a part in the outcome, were not an excuse for their actions.
I completly agree! One thing that I find frustrating about Sora is that she said « I’m sorry Umber, I didn’t mean for anyone else to get hurt » and I’m thinking: « You set off an explosion and it’s your first time using a dragonflame cactus. What do you THINK was gonna happen? The cactus will just be like ‘oh, I guess I’ll kill the white dragon instead of literally everyone else’. »
This was very interesting! I was always unsure of how to feel about Sora. I felt bad for her, but her "collateral damage" comment always bothered me, and I was surprised that that wasn't talked about much. And I was also surprised to see that the other deaths she caused were justified so quickly. I feel bad for her because of what happened to her sister, and wish she had talked to the dragonets about it instead like you said. I think there could've been a better outcome if she had. I hadn't thought much about Icicle, though. I never thought of her as a villain comparable to some of the other characters such as Scarlet or Darkstalker, but she still seemed like a more villainous character. I think that it could have something to do with how the books portrayed them, Sora seemed like a friendly, calm dragon in the beginning, while Icicle and the other IceWings were portrayed as grumpy and angry. (I started writing this out before finished watching so I didn't forget, and didn't know you had said something similar at the end.) But I have never thought much about Icicle's perspective, and never realized how similar they were. So I enjoyed watching this! Thinking about characters and their motivations is just really interesting to me, especially in a world like Wings of Fire.
YES. THANK YOU, I think Icicle doesn’t deserve to be considered a villain! Sora is the real one in the wrong, I still feel horrible for Sora but also for Icicle. Thank you for making this video :))
Actually never mind Sora got away with everything without getting a punishment and Icicle got a punishment so I agree with its kinda been a while since I read the series I forgot the story a little bit
I believe they are both right and wrong, so maybe there could be a winglet of sora, umber, and icicle. Icicle: a trial proving her innocence or maybe a small punishment. And later saying she is coming for sora Umber: Finding love, but since the dragon he chose is a dragon that knows about sora, so sora, and umber get into an arguement and sora leaves Sora: finding a place she can live. And Making a few friends Maybe there would be a legends about it. Maybe they become friends at the end.
Icicle absolutely deserves to be villainized. And so does Sora. They both, at some point in the books, decide that the lives of innocent dragons are worth less to them than their current goals. In Sora's case, this goal is vengeance. In Icicle's case, this goal is rescuing her brother (and, to some extent, impressing the Icewings and securing her place on the Icewall). While I would agree that Sora's reasoning is a lot less stable than Icicle's, this does not excuse Icicle's actions. Not only does she attempt to kill the dragonet's of destiny, she successfully does kill a nightwing guard in the rainforest - just a regular dragon who probably had a family of their own. In doing so, I would argue she becomes a villain. A villain who we can sympathize with and, at least, attempt to understand? Sure. But a villain nonetheless. To portray her as anything else would be a disservice to the dragonets of destiny, the nightwing guard, and to anyone else she would have killed in attempting to appease Scarlet. In addition to this, we have to consider their intentions - I think this is probably the reason Sora sometimes get treated as a victim and Icicle does not. It was never Sora's intention to hurt innocent dragons (or, at least, dragons who she viewed as innocent) - in fact, she goes out of her way to plan assassination attempts that have a low chance of collateral damage (the stalactite hanging over the spot Icicle always sits and the bomb going off before class when it would have been only Icicle around). Icicle, on the other hand, has the singular focus of killing dragons she KNOWS are innocent. Of course, they both end up murdering dragons who had done nothing wrong, cementing them both as villains, but in analyzing their actions we must also analyze their intentions. In conclusion, they both have their reasons for what they do and they both deserve to be treated as villains.
They've both done some awful things, I just hope to see them meet again and make amends. There is a level of understanding between the two of them if they would just have a regular understanding.
@The Jade Mountain Archive I agree, they both had their reasoning, but I still don't think Sora should be considered all-bad and ignorant, because her reason is quite similar to Icicle's, avenging a dead brother instead of rescuing one. Sora's one of my fav characters, although I was a little surprised at the end of her story.
I hope in this new age of peace, older dragons learn that dragonets shouldn’t suffer for their own mistakes. Intertribal laws should be made. More schools like Jade Mountain Academy should be made to help mend the gap years of radical nationalism between tribes. (especially in the sky, ice, and night tribes)
I believe both are in the wrong and in the right. A lot of people would do both of these things in the same circumstance, I know I would try to get revenge on someone who murdered my sister, especially if our relationship was as close as the MudWing sibs are. But on the other side, people kill each other in war all the time, not caring if they had a family to return to. So I think both should be blamed and also sympathized with, because most of us would do the same thing.
I totally agree and think that what Sora did was horrible and wrong, she deserves time in prison for what she did and the fact that all of the main characters just let her go infuriates me. She murdered children! Even if she didn't intend to kill anyone except Icicle she still set off a bomb on school grounds! What she did was the equivalent of a school shooting! On top of all this what she did would be considered international (or intertribal) terrorism. She risked the tribes breaking out into another war and shutting down all her brother had worked for. JMA is the first big step toward unifying the tribes and Sora risked destroying all of that just for revenge. What Sora did was evil and cruel. Especially considering that we don't even know for sure that Icicle was really the one who killed Crane. That being said, I do not think that Icicle is much better. She threatened and attempted to assassinate multiple teachers and willfully injured several students. I can sympathize that she wanted her brother back but that does not change the fact that what she did was wrong. Icicle deserved her punishments and it was Sora who deserved to be punished more than she was. Both Sora and Icicle actually have a lot of parallels in their crimes and motives, one of the only differences is that Sora gets put in a positive light while Icicle gets put in a negative one.
I see... this is pretty good but let's say your going in a school to learn and then you meet the person who killed your older sister. When icicle was sleeping sora heard her sleep talking about killing mudwings or aomething like that and hearing that from my sister's killer would definitely make me want to leave or kill them. I found it so weird that sora just called the other dragons death "collateral damage". I think it's just bad writing but I don't want to offend tui.
i actually dont see much wrong with the collateral damage thing "Collateral damage is any death, injury, or other damage inflicted that is an incidental result of an activity." it includes death so its technically the right word and i dont see it as bad writing because sora was mentally unstable and grew up during a war it makes sense she would phrase things in a weird way
I just have to say, Icicle was always very pressured by Tundra and Narwhal. They were using their own daughter to become queen, just so they could use her as a puppet. She was being preasured to kill Glacier when she was ready, but not wait too long so that one of Glacier's daughters became queen. How hard would that be!? And Icicle was a dragonet. She was younger than Snowfall, and look at *her* when she had trauma and was being pressured by Tundra at the start of The Dangerous Gift.
Well said. It's just like what Moon said. There is no one who's truly evil (maybe except Queen Scarlet, but who knows?) if you know the whole story. However, although Icicle and Sora's sentiments are both justifiable, their actions? Not so much
Thx for making this video, before I watched the vid my opinion was completely different. I used to think that Icicle was just a mean villain and I didn’t care for her. However, I thought about for a really long time (like half an hour lmao) and realized that, when she killed Crane, they were all in the middle of a giant world war! And IceWings and MuddWings were enemies because they were on different sides! It’s not like she walked up to Crane and was like “Imma kill you for no reason now” she actually was just doing it cuz she was a young DRAGONET who was forced to battle in the war. I know that doesn’t make Icicle an innocent little angel, but at the same time she’s not a horrible creature who likes to kill innocent dragons. (she did kinda give Sora trauma and then Sora tried to kill her so yeah)
Sora is a rather complicated character, mostly because she developed PTSD after her sister's death. I believe she knew what she was doing was wrong, but as a MudWing it's in her nature to be loyal and dedicated to her siblings. Besides, a lot of people who have been in a war have some kind of PTSD, not just Sora, and I think calling Carnelian and Bigtail's deaths collateral damage sounded like something out of denial; Sora was upset about what she did and was probably trying to reassure herself as much as she was Umber. Also remember Sora isn't a big talker, especially not after Crane's death, so I understand why she didn't just tell Clay about Icicle and instead tried to deal with her herself. Meanwhile Icicle is a murderous little peanut working under Ex-Queen Scarlet, but she had the same intentions as Sora: to avenge a lost sibling (keep in mind I said _lost,_ not _dead,_ because Winter Turning confirmed that Hailstorm wasn't dead). And if you remember the War of SandWing Succession, Icicle gave Sora a smug look after killing her sister. Heck, the Wiki even states that Icicle is fine with murder, and even threatened to KILL Sora after she tried to drop a stalactite on her. Although to be fair, Scarlet's treatment eventually becomes too much for Icicle, like, to the point of self-harm, as shown when Icicle repeatedly burned herself with lava to force herself awake. I also don't see the point in blaming Clay either, because he probably had no idea it was Icicle in _particular_ who killed his and Sora's sister, besides, he wanted his siblings to have clawmates who could balance out their demeanors, like Marsh and Coconut for example: Marsh is really nervous and jumpy while Coconut is a chill dude (who didn't even care that Kinkajou went missing for three weeks). Marsh's jumpiness keeps Coconut alert and Coconut's chill attitude calms Marsh down. Meanwhile, the intended dynamic between Icicle and Sora was probably for Sora to help Icicle keep her cool (lol) and for Icicle's fierce, fiery personality to help Sora out of her shell. However it went COMPLETELY downhill when Sora discovered who Crane's killer was and blew up the history cave. In conclusion, I see Icicle and Sora as equals, as both tried to kill others after losing a sibling, but Sora was at least remorseful for her actions, while Icicle is just a bad girl, but not _completely_ evil. Sora's one of my favorite characters and I really hope Tui does make a winglet on her and Umber at some point. An Icicle winglet would be interesting, too; we can see who she's _really_ like on the inside, dealing with strict parents and coping with losing her brother and all. But who do I think should be villainized? Well, I like the idea of a MudWing out for vengeance on their siblings' murderer, but Sora is too much of the sweet, anxious type to be depicted as a "villain" villain, while Icicle as I said before is a bad girl, but inwardly felt just as unsafe as Sora, so I think both dragons have their fair share of villainous traits albeit also with good intentions, but that's just my opinion and also me trying to see the best in two rivals idk lol 😉
I agree with a lot of these points but I don't think Icicle was wrong for threatening Sora. Like, if somebody tried multiple times to murder you, it'd be ridiculous for you to be expected to stay calm and cordial
I don't think either should be villainized, because Sora was just sad about her sister. I do agree that Sora could have delt with it differently, but I'm sure where ever she is she is rethinking her decisions.
Maybe instead of starting a school almost immediately after the war ended and having dragons who were enemies probably just weeks ago now supposed to get along be in the same room as each other for basically every day for who knows how long, they should've maybe opened a place for dragons to heal from mental trauma they might've suffered during the war instead of being told to get along. Not to say that the Jade Mountain Academy was a mistake, teaching the ways of other tribes with one another is a good way to help dragons to understand one another, I just think they started it too soon, as some might've not been ready to accept one another with the pain of whatever any others caused them would've been as fresh in their minds as a recently received scar.
I can totally agree with that. They needed therapists rather than teachers, because a WAR just finished with literal child soldiers at times. They needed time to adjust and get over the loss before they went to a school with their previous enemies
Ok, the fact that the DOD accepted students who didn't want to be there and then denied them the right to change clawmates, right after a war in a world where almost everybody loathed each other, has PTSD and is accustomed to violence makes me seriously doubt their intelligence
Icicle and Sora an interesting pair. Both were child soldiers who lost a sibling cause of the war and took actions for the sake of that lost sibling. One out of revenge, something that never goes well. The other out of desperation, specially when your basically haunted to the point where you try to keep yourself awake to the brink of insanity. Both did some bad things and should be held accountable. However, considering the fact that Sora had the emotional support of her sibling to move on and Icicle had a horrible home life in being pressured by her parents to be little miss perfect to take the throne by killing her aunt along with being a child soldier. The Icewing of the two deserves the greater sympathy. It’s honestly a similar case of Qibli and Icicle’s brother Winter. Both had a awful parents with the former’s being more physically abusive and the latter ‘s being more emotionally abusive. The difference being Qibli was taken out of his toxic environment by Thorn and helping him learn to deal with his trauma while Winter was basically stuck in his toxic environment never getting the emotional support he needs, even to this day in cannon.
Ice wings are a very complicated tribe and icicle since she was hatched was being trained to Challenge queen glacier for the throne talk about pressure and she’s a kid on a battlefield and I think icicle was doing all this for her parents approval like winter
Some thoughts to add to the discussion: Sora claims Icicle smiled at her after learning Crane and Sora were siblings, this easily could've been a lie, a conscious one or not. Sora could've said it to make Icicle look worse and justify her revenge. Or, the smile could've been something Sora's mind made up in the trauma, she just saw someone kill her sister, the killer smiling just fits. Both have done horrible things, it's unfair and defeats the message to say that Icicle deserves punishment while Sora gets to run off, consequence free.
In Sora’s defense, her motive wasn’t entirely based on revenge. She thought she was doing the world a favor by taking out Icicle. Consider this: Initially, Sora didn’t act on Icicle’s life just from knowing that she killed her sister. She only acted after learning that: a) Icicle was well on her way to claiming the IceWing throne b) Icicle talks in her sleep about how “killing is easy enough” These two combined pieces of information mix together for disaster. Sora was very justified in fearing what Icicle might do in the future, and it’s understandable that she would want to try to stop her. I don’t think Sora would’ve done what she did if she didn’t know these two things about Icicle. Sora herself even told Moon that Icicle had to be stopped. And to be honest, I agree with her. If she didn’t intervene, Icicle easily would’ve become queen. And she most likely would’ve caused trouble for the other tribes. At the very least, she certainly wouldn’t have been able to achieve what Snowfall achieved.
I can understand where you're coming from on that! However, there were better ways Sora could have dealt with the situation that could have ended with her not becoming a fugitive and those deaths happening.
@@Dogloverlikesdoge she wasn’t expecting the the dragons to die in her attempt. That was just bad and reckless planning. She intended for only Icicle to die.
@@TrickyTalon23 Yeah, I still don't think that literally setting off a bomb in a school with the intent of murdering a child was a sane way of doing this. Sora is psychotic by definition and we don't even know that Icicle was the one who murdered Crane. We only know that she was there when it happened and Sora thought it looked like her. Sora didn't care about what Icicle would do in the future and only wanted revenge for what she thought Icicle had done. Even if what you said was Sora's intent the punishment comes AFTER the crime and when did murdering a child because they might grow up to be bad a good thing to do?
@@TrickyTalon23 Sure, but that still doesn't make murdering a child and committing international terrorism because they MIGHT grow up to do something bad a decent thing to do.
I agree with what you’re saying and I agree with it but sora was fragile she saw her brother die. If it were hailstorm icicle would have done the same thing if she saw her brothers murderer in a school. But other wise I agree with you.
But also mudwings fight side by side with their siblings and they live together soo it’s because sora just missed her sister and wanted to get her back but she couldn’t
Hi! About the what if thing my idea is anyone can make a what if and the way that there can be ideas for years it someone could make the same what if video but with an AU like imagine is asha survived someone could make the same video making the story different is this a good idea? So if someone makes an idea people can still Make a video on that idea I would hope it’s ok so I can also make what if videos
So I have a what if idea What if the dragonets weren’t born in a cave what if the secretly lived in the forest or something (starflight born under the moons the other dragonets growing up in more natural habitats would sunny get nightwing powers born under the moon?)
I couldn't agree more because during their little mischievous iceicle didn't actually kill anybody while Sora did and also I'm like a little biased cuz Icewings on my favorite tribe LOL
I have a what if idea What if kinkajou died from her wounds in book 7 I think this would spark a lot of new conflict between the second generation of DoD (Moon, Winter, Turtle, Qibli) and Queen Glory. Maybe this will cause Glory to retaliate on the other Nightwings because a Nightwing killed kinkajou. Or maybe she will take it out on Moon. I hope you see this idea and take it into consideration. Also love the content bro.
I don't know if this really compares but my Icewing Mudwing hybrid Branch is also conflicted between the to tribes. Knowing nothing about mudwings but seeing icewings as traitor towards him. But fair point the low born icewings tried to kill him trying to prevent mudwings from geting animus powers because of him. Branch still doesen't like the icewings for that but has also not shown himself to the mudwings yet becsuse of his one inseciuretys. Basically he is whil not conected to Sora and Icicels story so what a mix of there feelings as of being amost killed by one of his tribes but knowing nothing about the other.
Spoiler Warning for Moon Rising I personally got very angry whenever I read about Icicle. They treated her as if she was this evil dragon. She was just fighting in a battle. It wasn't her fault she killed Crane. While Sora ACTUALLY attempted to murder Icicle twice, she killed two perfectly innocent dragons, who I think deserved more attention. And by running away, she dooms her brothers chance of making it in a social and academical life. The more I think about it, the angrier I get at Sora. I just feel bad for all the dragons lives that she spoiled. ( Icicle, Bigwings, Carnelian, whatever her brothers name is who came with her, etc. )
3:16 That's not quite accurate. She wants to stay awake because she doesn't want to learn if Scarlet killed her brother. I would add that Icicle did kill someone too: that random nightwing, while she was in the rainwing kingdom.
I think neither of them are villains. Neither should be villinized. Sora was doing it out of revenge which was unnecessary but she was doing it for her sister. Icicle was doing to save her brother who was alive but she was going to kill multiple dragons who did nothing but like you said had influence of Scarlett. icicle had bad intentions but failed to do them and sora had also bad intentions but killed dragons who she did not intend to kill. In summary they both did bad things with bad intentions but they did it for their loved ones so neither should be villinized.
I'd say they both deserve to be villainized. I do, however, feel bad for both of them. Both take actions for reasons that anyone might consider doing in the same situation. But understandable or not, both cared very little about innocent lives and only cared about their goal. Neither cared who got hurt as long as they got what they wanted, whether it was a selfish goal or not. They were both willing to hurt innocents without any remorse, or very little if any. One reason I'd say icicle would get villainized though might be because she seemed to actually enjoy killing, even out of war, while Sora just didn't care, and seemed remorseful at the end. Both are still really bad though. But in conclusion, both did really bad things and deserve to be villainized, they both held very little care over the lives of innocents (out of war. I would not blame someone for an act they did during a war. It's more the IceWings faults there for sending literal children into war. You know, why does nobody ever talk about that? The IceWings, and most other tribes it seems with Carnelian's age and saying she's been in 15 battles, have no problem sending dragonets who aren't even adults into war. Seriously. That is terrible.), both hurt others, and overall did really bad things.
So true, I always thought that Sora should have been the villianized one, because she immediately started trying to kill Icicle just because she trusted her gut. Icicle only really defended herself since it was battle, and Icicle should've only been punished for working for Queen Scarlet. This video I won't be copy and pasting my other ideas and adding more, so you get a :D *SIKE* What if Turtle didn't find Anemone and have the animus fight? What if Clay's egg got crushed while Asha got stuck in the fight (between whatever they were) What if Hawthorn dodged the thorn? What if the Scorching never happened? What if Scavengers never existed? What if Beetlewings and Leafwings didn't move to Pantala? What if instead of Wasp, the queen was Lady Scarab? What if Arctic was a kinder father? What if Whirlpool lived? What if the Skywing animus dragons weren't killed? What if the war never happened and the 3 Sandwing sisters just battled together that night? What if Fathom never met Darkstalker? What if the dragonets of destiny happened/What if the Talons of Peace didn't exist? What if Arctic got to the Ice Kingdom with Whiteout before Darkstalker reached him? What if Starflight died in the volcanic eruption? What if Gill had not been captured by the SkyWings? What if Peril never met Clay? What If Umber had confessed his feelings? What if Peacemaker found out he used to be Darkstalker? What if Darkstalker helped Whiteout out of her egg? What if Starflight was hatched out in the moons on the brightest night? (his powers go kaboom) What if Kestrel threw Peril into the river instead of Sky? What if Sunny was an animus inherited from Stonemover? What if the SkyWing egg was successfully stolen? What if Clearsight died on her way to Pantala? What if Turtle went insane from the animus fight? What if Queen Wasp had injected Bumblebee already? What if Tsunami and Turtle got lost on their way to Pantala? What if Moon wasn't hatched in the moonlight? What if Kinkajou died from venom? What if Kestrel survived? What if the NightWings took the rainforest? What if Scavenger and Dragon populations swapped? What if the HiveWings fully wiped out the LeafWings? Character Anylsis ideas: Deathbringer Darkstalker Ruby Tourmaline Whiteout Sora Umber Icicle Winter Albatross Fatespeaker Battlewinner Some of my unpopular opinions (I think they're unpopular) Scarlet should have survived the fight Chameleon is an annoying dumbass More filler stories like Whiteout's life after Darkstalker was shoved in rock The Dark Secret is a good book Glory is edgy Glorybringer is an okay ship Sunnyflight deserves more attention LADY SCARAB IS THE BEST CHARACTER IN THE WHOLE ENTIRE SERIES More info on Burnet, Silverspot and Admiral More info on Starflight's parents (mainly mother) Starspeaker is boring Sora is evil HAHA I WILL NEVER STOP!! >:)
yessss, i spend about half an hour a day thinking about new ideas for your videos. I am a dedicated wof fan, and I'm getting my book 5 graphic novel next week and is getting the 4 winglets tomorrow
Icicle seems to be constantly under negative influence, her parents’ resentment towards Winter somewhat poked out through her as well, hailstorm probably was the only one that genuinely cared.
Ok so umm you can't say that sora doesn't deserve to be sympathized with because the death of crane lead her to be mentally unwell also sora didnt run away because she didnt want to answer for her actions, it was because she didnt want to let down her family (not saying this for hate purposes i absoulutly love your vidoes and watch them all the time) Edit: also i dont think either of them should be villanized
I think people villainize icicle Because she’s mean and Sora is more bombarded with sympathy because he’s more likable heck I don’t like snowfall even though She’s justified for being unlikable I understand her actions and emotions but still don’t like her as a character and I think the sand can be applied for icicle and sora
Icicle since birth was trained by her parents to be a ruthless killing machine with the goal of becoming the queen, Icicle turned out to be a public danger. Sora was not a bad dragon, she made very bad decisions that ended in the death of two innocent dragons, she should have told someone about Icicle and not take justice with her own claws.
I think another reason we interpret sora as a victim and not icicle is because of their tribes. The mudwings are almost always portrayed in a positive light and with her connection to clay our brains piece together this tragedy that should have been prevented. Vs icewings after the first arc are constantly painted negatively, winter snowfall and lynx are the exceptions, all other icewings we view as corrupt. Subconsciously we expected atrocities from icicle and refuse to change our perception due to circumstance.
I definitely think we need a MudWing villain! I can guarantee that they're not some passive tribe all the time. You put that absolutely perfectly
Especially that Albatross is part IceWing (i think)
@@Dogloverlikesdoge We had crocodile but she was kind of just doing her job.
You forgot glacier and Opal in the list of exceptions :) /nm
@@Dogloverlikesdoge We did get Crocodile though
A thing no one really talks about is how similar Sora and Icicle are. They’ve lost a sibling and they’d do anything to avenge them, even if it means doing bad things. Rather than facing the consequences of their actions, they took matters into their own hands and made things even worse. Now Sora’s on the run and Icicle’s in prison
That's why I'd love a Winglet where Icicle sends Winter some letters before the trial, and then he directs her to Sora. They both would argue at first, but soon learn to understand how they're not all that different and make amends
I think it could be like Moon said before. “And some of them do really cruel things. But everyone has both good thoughts and bad thoughts and reasons for what they do, reasons they believe are important.”
And also
When winter asked if she thought icicle was evil, she said “She is doing what she thinks she has to do to save her brother. I wouldn’t make the choices she did, and she needs to be stopped. But I think I understand them, its very cold and intense inside her head.. i guess, i think it would be hard to grow up like she did, when you know your parents expect big things from you.”
So i think those quotes are my thoughts on both sora and icicle. I can understand where they both came from. They are similar
Moonwatcher's comment on the matter is definitely true, and Sora really should have stopped Icicle in a way that didn't involve another dragon's death
I see you in every warriors and wof video I see 😭
@@SkyPangolin what can i say, i like warriors and wings of fire content creators.
I agree with this, I feel like Icicle being more Villainized than Sora was upsetting. Icicle was just under a lot of pressure at the time and Sora just saw Icicle as a target instead of talking to her about the war or getting to know here a little bit better before attacking her. I want to see a winglet about Icicle and her family’s reaction (or just her in the rainforest trying to escape) or Sora getting punished.
I completely agree. Both are bad in their own ways, but one gets more villianized. I hope later in the books Sora gets some sort of punishment for what she did.
I agree! If we get a Winglet on Sora & Umber, I really hope it ends with Sora agreeing to be detained for what she had done and finally apologizing to Icicle. It would be really nice to see them make amends!
(The perfect Winglet idea would be Icicle sending letters to Winter, and then him directing her towards Sora instead. They would then communicate, though both hostile at first, and soon come to understand that they're not that different.)
@@Dogloverlikesdoge That would be great! It would be awesome to get them to come to an acceptance.
@@Dogloverlikesdoge I would love to read something like that.
@Dogloverlkesdoge I think it would be perfect for arc4 to, instead of the next generation of dragonets, have Sora, Icicle, Cobra, Sirocco, Rattlesnake, Chameleon, Vulture, Marsh, Fierceteeth, Strongwings, and Wasp as the protaginists. Since all of them are FUGITIVE/CRIMINALS/HATE THEIR TRIBE/HATE THEIR QUEEN what if they were forced to work together. I also want to see more of Orchid, Sundew's parents, and Blaze. I want it to be about them trying to overthrow the queens/about male's being able to challenge the queen for the throne/about them trying to re-alive dead dragons/about there being a democracy. Also something about the next Silk-wing. I have no idea how the arc should end but at least a few of the dragons mentioned above ⬆⬆⬆should have emotional deaths/happy endings. Also maybe the eye of onyx getting destroyed.
@Dogloverlkesdoge I disagree with you and think that neither of them should be villainized. There was no way that Icicle could have gotten her brother Hailstorm back without doing what Scarlet told her. If Sora had told someone, they would have propably just been separated because Icicle didn't specifically kill Crane and killed other dragons in the war. But as Moon had heard in other dragons thoughts in Jade Mountain, "It's easy for the dragonets to talk about forgivness, they weren't in the war." And when you said Sora had no remorse and just said the it was collateral damage, there were other students within Jade Mountain at the time (Flame, Carnelian, Icicle, Onyx) who would feel the same way. Even though what both of them did was still technically wrong, just because a dragon does something wrong does not mean they deserve to be villainized.
icicle was basically a rat in the books, but she got villainized because of this meanwhile sora commits attempted murder twice and gets treated like 'precious bean must protec' instead of being percieved as the next best dateline killer. like, how does one do that?
Ikr! The WoF fandom sometimes picks and chooses who to hate based on their personality rather than their actions
@@Dogloverlikesdoge you’re right I don’t like snowfall even though her actions and why she’s like that is justified for me a characters personality is more than a very flawed character Who goes through a lot of development to be a better person In the end sure Sora is nicer but that doesn’t make her actions justified And Icicle is mean and people don’t like her and give the sympathy over to sora Because she’s more likable
I was honestly convinced icicle as a villain, until I saw the way she was treating her self beating herself up about something she didn’t do. She felt like it was her responsibility to get him back.
Sora was this exact same They felt like they had to get revenge because cran died because of them like it was their fault.
Thank you to Squidles for practically inspiring this video! Your take on this topic really got me thinking about it.
Just to clarify, I do believe that both Icicle and Sora have done some unforgivable actions in the past. Neither of them really should be sympathized with in some cases, but there is a level of understanding that comes with the two of them. The circumstances, even though they did play a part in the outcome, were not an excuse for their actions.
I completly agree! One thing that I find frustrating about Sora is that she said « I’m sorry Umber, I didn’t mean for anyone else to get hurt » and I’m thinking: « You set off an explosion and it’s your first time using a dragonflame cactus. What do you THINK was gonna happen? The cactus will just be like ‘oh, I guess I’ll kill the white dragon instead of literally everyone else’. »
I never made her out as a villain, and I never knew people did
@PizzaTime how?
This was very interesting! I was always unsure of how to feel about Sora. I felt bad for her, but her "collateral damage" comment always bothered me, and I was surprised that that wasn't talked about much. And I was also surprised to see that the other deaths she caused were justified so quickly. I feel bad for her because of what happened to her sister, and wish she had talked to the dragonets about it instead like you said. I think there could've been a better outcome if she had.
I hadn't thought much about Icicle, though. I never thought of her as a villain comparable to some of the other characters such as Scarlet or Darkstalker, but she still seemed like a more villainous character.
I think that it could have something to do with how the books portrayed them, Sora seemed like a friendly, calm dragon in the beginning, while Icicle and the other IceWings were portrayed as grumpy and angry. (I started writing this out before finished watching so I didn't forget, and didn't know you had said something similar at the end.)
But I have never thought much about Icicle's perspective, and never realized how similar they were. So I enjoyed watching this! Thinking about characters and their motivations is just really interesting to me, especially in a world like Wings of Fire.
Yeah, nobody really talks about the bad side of Sora. People just cover it up with her insecurities
YES. THANK YOU, I think Icicle doesn’t deserve to be considered a villain! Sora is the real one in the wrong, I still feel horrible for Sora but also for Icicle. Thank you for making this video :))
I feel the exact same way!
Actually never mind Sora got away with everything without getting a punishment and Icicle got a punishment so I agree with its kinda been a while since I read the series I forgot the story a little bit
@@valorwavez I think icicle got punished because she attacked starflight, though I do feel bad for Sora and Icicle
I believe they are both right and wrong, so maybe there could be a winglet of sora, umber, and icicle.
Icicle: a trial proving her innocence or maybe a small punishment. And later saying she is coming for sora
Umber: Finding love, but since the dragon he chose is a dragon that knows about sora, so sora, and umber get into an arguement and sora leaves
Sora: finding a place she can live. And Making a few friends
Maybe there would be a legends about it.
Maybe they become friends at the end.
@@eriklin9541 I like ur idea
I still feel bad for Sora, she is just getting payback for what icicle did to her sister, she is naturally kind
She could have been such a sweet dragon. You can see it in her that she's just anxious, but she let her rage get the best of her
She deserves a second chance in Jade mountain since icicle isnt in the academy anymore
@@Itzaxolotl101 what?? I totally disagree. Sorry
@@hollyforman9637 It is okay, it's your opinion anyways
Icicle absolutely deserves to be villainized.
And so does Sora.
They both, at some point in the books, decide that the lives of innocent dragons are worth less to them than their current goals. In Sora's case, this goal is vengeance. In Icicle's case, this goal is rescuing her brother (and, to some extent, impressing the Icewings and securing her place on the Icewall). While I would agree that Sora's reasoning is a lot less stable than Icicle's, this does not excuse Icicle's actions. Not only does she attempt to kill the dragonet's of destiny, she successfully does kill a nightwing guard in the rainforest - just a regular dragon who probably had a family of their own. In doing so, I would argue she becomes a villain. A villain who we can sympathize with and, at least, attempt to understand? Sure. But a villain nonetheless. To portray her as anything else would be a disservice to the dragonets of destiny, the nightwing guard, and to anyone else she would have killed in attempting to appease Scarlet.
In addition to this, we have to consider their intentions - I think this is probably the reason Sora sometimes get treated as a victim and Icicle does not. It was never Sora's intention to hurt innocent dragons (or, at least, dragons who she viewed as innocent) - in fact, she goes out of her way to plan assassination attempts that have a low chance of collateral damage (the stalactite hanging over the spot Icicle always sits and the bomb going off before class when it would have been only Icicle around). Icicle, on the other hand, has the singular focus of killing dragons she KNOWS are innocent. Of course, they both end up murdering dragons who had done nothing wrong, cementing them both as villains, but in analyzing their actions we must also analyze their intentions. In conclusion, they both have their reasons for what they do and they both deserve to be treated as villains.
They've both done some awful things, I just hope to see them meet again and make amends. There is a level of understanding between the two of them if they would just have a regular understanding.
This. Yes, this-
they are both villianous, and excusing their murders and attempts to kill would be wrong.
@The Jade Mountain Archive I agree, they both had their reasoning, but I still don't think Sora should be considered all-bad and ignorant, because her reason is quite similar to Icicle's, avenging a dead brother instead of rescuing one. Sora's one of my fav characters, although I was a little surprised at the end of her story.
I hope in this new age of peace, older dragons learn that dragonets shouldn’t suffer for their own mistakes. Intertribal laws should be made. More schools like Jade Mountain Academy should be made to help mend the gap years of radical nationalism between tribes. (especially in the sky, ice, and night tribes)
im curious why sky ice and night specifically why not seawings
I believe both are in the wrong and in the right. A lot of people would do both of these things in the same circumstance, I know I would try to get revenge on someone who murdered my sister, especially if our relationship was as close as the MudWing sibs are. But on the other side, people kill each other in war all the time, not caring if they had a family to return to. So I think both should be blamed and also sympathized with, because most of us would do the same thing.
Thank you for this insight into Icicle's character.
I totally agree and think that what Sora did was horrible and wrong, she deserves time in prison for what she did and the fact that all of the main characters just let her go infuriates me. She murdered children! Even if she didn't intend to kill anyone except Icicle she still set off a bomb on school grounds! What she did was the equivalent of a school shooting!
On top of all this what she did would be considered international (or intertribal) terrorism. She risked the tribes breaking out into another war and shutting down all her brother had worked for. JMA is the first big step toward unifying the tribes and Sora risked destroying all of that just for revenge. What Sora did was evil and cruel. Especially considering that we don't even know for sure that Icicle was really the one who killed Crane.
That being said, I do not think that Icicle is much better. She threatened and attempted to assassinate multiple teachers and willfully injured several students. I can sympathize that she wanted her brother back but that does not change the fact that what she did was wrong. Icicle deserved her punishments and it was Sora who deserved to be punished more than she was.
Both Sora and Icicle actually have a lot of parallels in their crimes and motives, one of the only differences is that Sora gets put in a positive light while Icicle gets put in a negative one.
In my head icicle was being forced by scarlet, the pride of saving hailstorm and sora I feel like needs to be in a mental hospital
That's exactly how I feel ngl
I see... this is pretty good but let's say your going in a school to learn and then you meet the person who killed your older sister. When icicle was sleeping sora heard her sleep talking about killing mudwings or aomething like that and hearing that from my sister's killer would definitely make me want to leave or kill them. I found it so weird that sora just called the other dragons death "collateral damage". I think it's just bad writing but I don't want to offend tui.
i actually dont see much wrong with the collateral damage thing "Collateral damage is any death, injury, or other damage inflicted that is an incidental result of an activity." it includes death so its technically the right word and i dont see it as bad writing because sora was mentally unstable and grew up during a war it makes sense she would phrase things in a weird way
I just have to say, Icicle was always very pressured by Tundra and Narwhal. They were using their own daughter to become queen, just so they could use her as a puppet. She was being preasured to kill Glacier when she was ready, but not wait too long so that one of Glacier's daughters became queen. How hard would that be!? And Icicle was a dragonet. She was younger than Snowfall, and look at *her* when she had trauma and was being pressured by Tundra at the start of The Dangerous Gift.
Yeah, that's what makes me feel even more bad for her :(
Deep down she really didn't want any of this
If you think about it icicle wanted hailstorm but had not killed any dragons unlike Sora
Oh well I just read winter turning scratch that “didn’t kill any dragons”
Well said. It's just like what Moon said. There is no one who's truly evil (maybe except Queen Scarlet, but who knows?) if you know the whole story. However, although Icicle and Sora's sentiments are both justifiable, their actions? Not so much
I don’t think she’s evil.
I just think she’s nucking futs.
Thx for making this video, before I watched the vid my opinion was completely different. I used to think that Icicle was just a mean villain and I didn’t care for her. However, I thought about for a really long time (like half an hour lmao) and realized that, when she killed Crane, they were all in the middle of a giant world war! And IceWings and MuddWings were enemies because they were on different sides! It’s not like she walked up to Crane and was like “Imma kill you for no reason now” she actually was just doing it cuz she was a young DRAGONET who was forced to battle in the war. I know that doesn’t make Icicle an innocent little angel, but at the same time she’s not a horrible creature who likes to kill innocent dragons. (she did kinda give Sora trauma and then Sora tried to kill her so yeah)
Lol sorry I didn’t mean to make this a whole essay
I'm glad that I was able to change your mind on this!
@@Dogloverlikesdoge :D
Sora is a rather complicated character, mostly because she developed PTSD after her sister's death. I believe she knew what she was doing was wrong, but as a MudWing it's in her nature to be loyal and dedicated to her siblings. Besides, a lot of people who have been in a war have some kind of PTSD, not just Sora, and I think calling Carnelian and Bigtail's deaths collateral damage sounded like something out of denial; Sora was upset about what she did and was probably trying to reassure herself as much as she was Umber. Also remember Sora isn't a big talker, especially not after Crane's death, so I understand why she didn't just tell Clay about Icicle and instead tried to deal with her herself.
Meanwhile Icicle is a murderous little peanut working under Ex-Queen Scarlet, but she had the same intentions as Sora: to avenge a lost sibling (keep in mind I said _lost,_ not _dead,_ because Winter Turning confirmed that Hailstorm wasn't dead). And if you remember the War of SandWing Succession, Icicle gave Sora a smug look after killing her sister. Heck, the Wiki even states that Icicle is fine with murder, and even threatened to KILL Sora after she tried to drop a stalactite on her. Although to be fair, Scarlet's treatment eventually becomes too much for Icicle, like, to the point of self-harm, as shown when Icicle repeatedly burned herself with lava to force herself awake.
I also don't see the point in blaming Clay either, because he probably had no idea it was Icicle in _particular_ who killed his and Sora's sister, besides, he wanted his siblings to have clawmates who could balance out their demeanors, like Marsh and Coconut for example: Marsh is really nervous and jumpy while Coconut is a chill dude (who didn't even care that Kinkajou went missing for three weeks). Marsh's jumpiness keeps Coconut alert and Coconut's chill attitude calms Marsh down. Meanwhile, the intended dynamic between Icicle and Sora was probably for Sora to help Icicle keep her cool (lol) and for Icicle's fierce, fiery personality to help Sora out of her shell. However it went COMPLETELY downhill when Sora discovered who Crane's killer was and blew up the history cave.
In conclusion, I see Icicle and Sora as equals, as both tried to kill others after losing a sibling, but Sora was at least remorseful for her actions, while Icicle is just a bad girl, but not _completely_ evil. Sora's one of my favorite characters and I really hope Tui does make a winglet on her and Umber at some point. An Icicle winglet would be interesting, too; we can see who she's _really_ like on the inside, dealing with strict parents and coping with losing her brother and all. But who do I think should be villainized? Well, I like the idea of a MudWing out for vengeance on their siblings' murderer, but Sora is too much of the sweet, anxious type to be depicted as a "villain" villain, while Icicle as I said before is a bad girl, but inwardly felt just as unsafe as Sora, so I think both dragons have their fair share of villainous traits albeit also with good intentions, but that's just my opinion and also me trying to see the best in two rivals idk lol 😉
I agree with a lot of these points but I don't think Icicle was wrong for threatening Sora. Like, if somebody tried multiple times to murder you, it'd be ridiculous for you to be expected to stay calm and cordial
I don't think either should be villainized, because Sora was just sad about her sister. I do agree that Sora could have delt with it differently, but I'm sure where ever she is she is rethinking her decisions.
Maybe instead of starting a school almost immediately after the war ended and having dragons who were enemies probably just weeks ago now supposed to get along be in the same room as each other for basically every day for who knows how long, they should've maybe opened a place for dragons to heal from mental trauma they might've suffered during the war instead of being told to get along. Not to say that the Jade Mountain Academy was a mistake, teaching the ways of other tribes with one another is a good way to help dragons to understand one another, I just think they started it too soon, as some might've not been ready to accept one another with the pain of whatever any others caused them would've been as fresh in their minds as a recently received scar.
I can totally agree with that. They needed therapists rather than teachers, because a WAR just finished with literal child soldiers at times. They needed time to adjust and get over the loss before they went to a school with their previous enemies
Ok, the fact that the DOD accepted students who didn't want to be there and then denied them the right to change clawmates, right after a war in a world where almost everybody loathed each other, has PTSD and is accustomed to violence makes me seriously doubt their intelligence
Your videos never disappoint! Keep it up!
Awww, thank you so so much! That comment made me really happy :D
Icicle and Sora an interesting pair. Both were child soldiers who lost a sibling cause of the war and took actions for the sake of that lost sibling. One out of revenge, something that never goes well. The other out of desperation, specially when your basically haunted to the point where you try to keep yourself awake to the brink of insanity. Both did some bad things and should be held accountable. However, considering the fact that Sora had the emotional support of her sibling to move on and Icicle had a horrible home life in being pressured by her parents to be little miss perfect to take the throne by killing her aunt along with being a child soldier. The Icewing of the two deserves the greater sympathy.
It’s honestly a similar case of Qibli and Icicle’s brother Winter. Both had a awful parents with the former’s being more physically abusive and the latter ‘s being more emotionally abusive. The difference being Qibli was taken out of his toxic environment by Thorn and helping him learn to deal with his trauma while Winter was basically stuck in his toxic environment never getting the emotional support he needs, even to this day in cannon.
Ice wings are a very complicated tribe and icicle since she was hatched was being trained to Challenge queen glacier for the throne talk about pressure and she’s a kid on a battlefield and I think icicle was doing all this for her parents approval like winter
Yeah, agreed
Some thoughts to add to the discussion: Sora claims Icicle smiled at her after learning Crane and Sora were siblings, this easily could've been a lie, a conscious one or not. Sora could've said it to make Icicle look worse and justify her revenge. Or, the smile could've been something Sora's mind made up in the trauma, she just saw someone kill her sister, the killer smiling just fits.
Both have done horrible things, it's unfair and defeats the message to say that Icicle deserves punishment while Sora gets to run off, consequence free.
In Sora’s defense, her motive wasn’t entirely based on revenge. She thought she was doing the world a favor by taking out Icicle. Consider this:
Initially, Sora didn’t act on Icicle’s life just from knowing that she killed her sister. She only acted after learning that:
a) Icicle was well on her way to claiming the IceWing throne
b) Icicle talks in her sleep about how “killing is easy enough”
These two combined pieces of information mix together for disaster. Sora was very justified in fearing what Icicle might do in the future, and it’s understandable that she would want to try to stop her. I don’t think Sora would’ve done what she did if she didn’t know these two things about Icicle. Sora herself even told Moon that Icicle had to be stopped. And to be honest, I agree with her. If she didn’t intervene, Icicle easily would’ve become queen. And she most likely would’ve caused trouble for the other tribes. At the very least, she certainly wouldn’t have been able to achieve what Snowfall achieved.
I can understand where you're coming from on that! However, there were better ways Sora could have dealt with the situation that could have ended with her not becoming a fugitive and those deaths happening.
@@Dogloverlikesdoge she wasn’t expecting the the dragons to die in her attempt. That was just bad and reckless planning. She intended for only Icicle to die.
@@TrickyTalon23 Yeah, I still don't think that literally setting off a bomb in a school with the intent of murdering a child was a sane way of doing this. Sora is psychotic by definition and we don't even know that Icicle was the one who murdered Crane. We only know that she was there when it happened and Sora thought it looked like her. Sora didn't care about what Icicle would do in the future and only wanted revenge for what she thought Icicle had done. Even if what you said was Sora's intent the punishment comes AFTER the crime and when did murdering a child because they might grow up to be bad a good thing to do?
@@dr.lore0075 “Sora didn’t care about what Icicle would do in the future and just wanted revenge.” I beg to differ on that.
@@TrickyTalon23 Sure, but that still doesn't make murdering a child and committing international terrorism because they MIGHT grow up to do something bad a decent thing to do.
I agree with what you’re saying and I agree with it but sora was fragile she saw her brother die. If it were hailstorm icicle would have done the same thing if she saw her brothers murderer in a school. But other wise I agree with you.
But also mudwings fight side by side with their siblings and they live together soo it’s because sora just missed her sister and wanted to get her back but she couldn’t
Has I totally 100 percent agree on all of this 😌
The real villain here is Scarlet. Allways has been.
Hi! About the what if thing my idea is anyone can make a what if and the way that there can be ideas for years it someone could make the same what if video but with an AU like imagine is asha survived someone could make the same video making the story different is this a good idea? So if someone makes an idea people can still
Make a video on that idea I would hope it’s ok so I can also make what if videos
So I have a what if idea What if the dragonets weren’t born in a cave what if the secretly lived in the forest or something (starflight born under the moons the other dragonets growing up in more natural habitats would sunny get nightwing powers born under the moon?)
I couldn't agree more because during their little mischievous iceicle didn't actually kill anybody while Sora did and also I'm like a little biased cuz Icewings on my favorite tribe LOL
The IceWings are pretty cool though :O
What if scarlet died in book 3 Can do a video about that
Ok actually im gonna make the starflight having powers thing an AU
I have a what if idea
What if kinkajou died from her wounds in book 7
I think this would spark a lot of new conflict between the second generation of DoD (Moon, Winter, Turtle, Qibli) and Queen Glory. Maybe this will cause Glory to retaliate on the other Nightwings because a Nightwing killed kinkajou. Or maybe she will take it out on Moon.
I hope you see this idea and take it into consideration. Also love the content bro.
I don't know if this really compares but my Icewing Mudwing hybrid Branch is also conflicted between the to tribes. Knowing nothing about mudwings but seeing icewings as traitor towards him. But fair point the low born icewings tried to kill him trying to prevent mudwings from geting animus powers because of him. Branch still doesen't like the icewings for that but has also not shown himself to the mudwings yet becsuse of his one inseciuretys. Basically he is whil not conected to Sora and Icicels story so what a mix of there feelings as of being amost killed by one of his tribes but knowing nothing about the other.
Spoiler Warning for Moon Rising
I personally got very angry whenever I read about Icicle. They treated her as if she was this evil dragon. She was just fighting in a battle. It wasn't her fault she killed Crane. While Sora ACTUALLY attempted to murder Icicle twice, she killed two perfectly innocent dragons, who I think deserved more attention. And by running away, she dooms her brothers chance of making it in a social and academical life. The more I think about it, the angrier I get at Sora. I just feel bad for all the dragons lives that she spoiled. ( Icicle, Bigwings, Carnelian, whatever her brothers name is who came with her, etc. )
Icicle also attempted murder...And did end up killing someone unrelated kind of accidentally.
3:16 That's not quite accurate. She wants to stay awake because she doesn't want to learn if Scarlet killed her brother.
I would add that Icicle did kill someone too: that random nightwing, while she was in the rainwing kingdom.
I think neither of them are villains. Neither should be villinized. Sora was doing it out of revenge which was unnecessary but she was doing it for her sister. Icicle was doing to save her brother who was alive but she was going to kill multiple dragons who did nothing but like you said had influence of Scarlett. icicle had bad intentions but failed to do them and sora had also bad intentions but killed dragons who she did not intend to kill. In summary they both did bad things with bad intentions but they did it for their loved ones so neither should be villinized.
Unmber hates sora because
Carnlian is umbers cruch
Nice video!!!
Thank you!
I agree with all of your points about sora but I do kind of feel bad for her in a way
I'd say they both deserve to be villainized.
I do, however, feel bad for both of them.
Both take actions for reasons that anyone might consider doing in the same situation.
But understandable or not, both cared very little about innocent lives and only cared about their goal. Neither cared who got hurt as long as they got what they wanted, whether it was a selfish goal or not. They were both willing to hurt innocents without any remorse, or very little if any.
One reason I'd say icicle would get villainized though might be because she seemed to actually enjoy killing, even out of war, while Sora just didn't care, and seemed remorseful at the end. Both are still really bad though.
But in conclusion, both did really bad things and deserve to be villainized, they both held very little care over the lives of innocents (out of war. I would not blame someone for an act they did during a war. It's more the IceWings faults there for sending literal children into war. You know, why does nobody ever talk about that? The IceWings, and most other tribes it seems with Carnelian's age and saying she's been in 15 battles, have no problem sending dragonets who aren't even adults into war. Seriously. That is terrible.), both hurt others, and overall did really bad things.
You made a lot of good points! I couldn't have put it better myself
Oh man do I need and love this. Icicle is my favorite character:)
So true, I always thought that Sora should have been the villianized one, because she immediately started trying to kill Icicle just because she trusted her gut. Icicle only really defended herself since it was battle, and Icicle should've only been punished for working for Queen Scarlet.
This video I won't be copy and pasting my other ideas and adding more, so you get a :D
*SIKE*
What if Turtle didn't find Anemone and have the animus fight?
What if Clay's egg got crushed while Asha got stuck in the fight (between whatever they were)
What if Hawthorn dodged the thorn?
What if the Scorching never happened?
What if Scavengers never existed?
What if Beetlewings and Leafwings didn't move to Pantala?
What if instead of Wasp, the queen was Lady Scarab?
What if Arctic was a kinder father?
What if Whirlpool lived?
What if the Skywing animus dragons weren't killed?
What if the war never happened and the 3 Sandwing sisters just battled together that night?
What if Fathom never met Darkstalker?
What if the dragonets of destiny happened/What if the Talons of Peace didn't exist?
What if Arctic got to the Ice Kingdom with Whiteout before Darkstalker reached him?
What if Starflight died in the volcanic eruption?
What if Gill had not been captured by the SkyWings?
What if Peril never met Clay?
What If Umber had confessed his feelings?
What if Peacemaker found out he used to be Darkstalker?
What if Darkstalker helped Whiteout out of her egg?
What if Starflight was hatched out in the moons on the brightest night? (his powers go kaboom)
What if Kestrel threw Peril into the river instead of Sky?
What if Sunny was an animus inherited from Stonemover?
What if the SkyWing egg was successfully stolen?
What if Clearsight died on her way to Pantala?
What if Turtle went insane from the animus fight?
What if Queen Wasp had injected Bumblebee already?
What if Tsunami and Turtle got lost on their way to Pantala?
What if Moon wasn't hatched in the moonlight?
What if Kinkajou died from venom?
What if Kestrel survived?
What if the NightWings took the rainforest?
What if Scavenger and Dragon populations swapped?
What if the HiveWings fully wiped out the LeafWings?
Character Anylsis ideas:
Deathbringer
Darkstalker
Ruby
Tourmaline
Whiteout
Sora
Umber
Icicle
Winter
Albatross
Fatespeaker
Battlewinner
Some of my unpopular opinions (I think they're unpopular)
Scarlet should have survived the fight
Chameleon is an annoying dumbass
More filler stories like Whiteout's life after Darkstalker was shoved in rock
The Dark Secret is a good book
Glory is edgy
Glorybringer is an okay ship
Sunnyflight deserves more attention
LADY SCARAB IS THE BEST CHARACTER IN THE WHOLE ENTIRE SERIES
More info on Burnet, Silverspot and Admiral
More info on Starflight's parents (mainly mother)
Starspeaker is boring
Sora is evil
HAHA I WILL NEVER STOP!! >:)
Thank you so much for all of your video ideas, I genuinely appreciate them! You always have a lot XD
how do you have so many ideas?
yessss, i spend about half an hour a day thinking about new ideas for your videos. I am a dedicated wof fan, and I'm getting my book 5 graphic novel next week and is getting the 4 winglets tomorrow
YO I'M EARLY
Icicle seems to be constantly under negative influence, her parents’ resentment towards Winter somewhat poked out through her as well, hailstorm probably was the only one that genuinely cared.
Ok so umm you can't say that sora doesn't deserve to be sympathized with because the death of crane lead her to be mentally unwell also sora didnt run away because she didnt want to answer for her actions, it was because she didnt want to let down her family (not saying this for hate purposes i absoulutly love your vidoes and watch them all the time)
Edit: also i dont think either of them should be villanized
Hi dogelover
Hello!
I love it
I'm glad you did :D
I turned the 9 likes to the 10 likes
I think people villainize icicle Because she’s mean and Sora is more bombarded with sympathy because he’s more likable heck I don’t like snowfall even though She’s justified for being unlikable I understand her actions and emotions but still don’t like her as a character and I think the sand can be applied for icicle and sora
Icicle since birth was trained by her parents to be a ruthless killing machine with the goal of becoming the queen, Icicle turned out to be a public danger. Sora was not a bad dragon, she made very bad decisions that ended in the death of two innocent dragons, she should have told someone about Icicle and not take justice with her own claws.