I think the batteries are a red herring. When you were pressing the buttons with the new batteries the signal strength varied between around -25 to -45. The readings with the old batteries were between -28 to -36. The reading on the analyzer varies drastically depending on where you hold the remote. To compare the batteries, you need to have the remote in EXACTLY the same place in relation to the analyzer.
A PDF of the wi-key installation manual shows the receiver positive power supply wire also looping to the "C" terminal (you can see this at 7:36 point in your video). Although it makes sense if the relays switch this supply onto the "O" and "F" terminals I wonder if the relay coils are also powered from the "C" terminal which is why they weren't switching ? Another thought, the transmitter and receiver may both be working but have lost their "pairing" and need re-linking
A USB SDR would let you test this without a spectrum analyser. You can pick up a cheap rtl-sdr from Ali for about £/€/$15 and theres plenty of open source software.
Looks like you need to scan up to about 1GHz. I've never used an SDR so this may be a dumb question but will it automatically pick up the frequency of the transmission or does it have to scan or something? Also how does it display the received signal strength? In this repair I could see the green LED on the remote sender was flashing when i pressed the button and it was transmitting with the old batteries but the spectrum analyzer told me the RF signal strength was low compared to the new batteries.
You would think the relays are connected to those three contacts. Perhaps the center one is the common and it is connected to one of the outer connections when the cover moves in each direction. Relays are mechanical and pools are moist, these two don't play well together (sealing them helps but...). That's where I would start. Verify the coil has continuity and the NC contacts make contact. Perhaps, you could drive the coils to ensure the relays change state.
Exactly this. The outputs are marked C O and F. It's a French device, those will be Commun, Ouvrir, Fermer (common, open, close). As Richard said, the other box is likely to be an overload detector in case the motor jams.
Yes, odd that the customer said the button unit was working (I think), yet there is no continuity between the C and O or F pins (the relays seem to be dual-coil bistable changeover type).
They could be optical relays rather than mechanical which would make sense from a design point of view given the environment the device is built for. I'd check for voltage between those 3 pins rather than continuity when the device is activated
@@ralphj4012 Yeah the customer tells me that the cover opens and closes using the manual buttons on the recepteur unit. I tried all combinations of C O and F and everything read open circuit
As someone kinda mentioned before, this thing probably has a signal for limit detection in order to not activate the motors (via the relays) when the cover/lid is already fully closed or fully open. You might need to fake such signal in order to test the relay activation. Cheers! (this limit detection could also take place somewhere close to the motors themselves, I don't know)
The 2 times used for open and close at 10 minutes in the video are relays or electricians call them contactors. I definately would check if they are working. They have multiple open or close contacts and the coil is normally switched via a smaller relay perhaps the the ones on your circuit boards.
on the cheap, USB SDR receiver would do. Some frequency counter with a pickup coil would also do. Cheapest and DIY is using something called RF field strength meter based on analog meter and couple of components.
Could the relays be switching the 24 volt supply as a control voltage to the main contactors that operate the motors for opening and closing the pool cover? One relay for each both using the normally open contact.
Hi Richard, I'm not sure I heard the history of these devices, but my comment relates to the two transceivers. Are they a matched pair? Are frequencies set to the same at either end, and are the addresses correct for inter operation. Devices are set up by an SPI interface, which has an instruction set to determine Frequency, Power, Address, etc.
Did you measure if the coil of the relays was actuated when pressing a button? Might need 3 hands for this Your TinaSA is much more capable than that Ali-express box.
My guess is the interrupter board is monitoring the current of the motor. If an obstacle is detected it will stop or reverse much like a garage door.
I think the batteries are a red herring. When you were pressing the buttons with the new batteries the signal strength varied between around -25 to -45. The readings with the old batteries were between -28 to -36. The reading on the analyzer varies drastically depending on where you hold the remote. To compare the batteries, you need to have the remote in EXACTLY the same place in relation to the analyzer.
A PDF of the wi-key installation manual shows the receiver positive power supply wire also looping to the "C" terminal (you can see this at 7:36 point in your video). Although it makes sense if the relays switch this supply onto the "O" and "F" terminals I wonder if the relay coils are also powered from the "C" terminal which is why they weren't switching ? Another thought, the transmitter and receiver may both be working but have lost their "pairing" and need re-linking
A USB SDR would let you test this without a spectrum analyser. You can pick up a cheap rtl-sdr from Ali for about £/€/$15 and theres plenty of open source software.
I was just thinking that, ill set mine up and have a go with some car fobs etc.
Looks like you need to scan up to about 1GHz. I've never used an SDR so this may be a dumb question but will it automatically pick up the frequency of the transmission or does it have to scan or something? Also how does it display the received signal strength? In this repair I could see the green LED on the remote sender was flashing when i pressed the button and it was transmitting with the old batteries but the spectrum analyzer told me the RF signal strength was low compared to the new batteries.
I've got so much to watch and learn from your videos, but I can't spare all the time, but boy they're great!
You would think the relays are connected to those three contacts.
Perhaps the center one is the common and it is connected to one of the outer connections when the cover moves in each direction.
Relays are mechanical and pools are moist, these two don't play well together (sealing them helps but...).
That's where I would start.
Verify the coil has continuity and the NC contacts make contact.
Perhaps, you could drive the coils to ensure the relays change state.
Exactly this. The outputs are marked C O and F. It's a French device, those will be Commun, Ouvrir, Fermer (common, open, close).
As Richard said, the other box is likely to be an overload detector in case the motor jams.
Yes, odd that the customer said the button unit was working (I think), yet there is no continuity between the C and O or F pins (the relays seem to be dual-coil bistable changeover type).
They could be optical relays rather than mechanical which would make sense from a design point of view given the environment the device is built for. I'd check for voltage between those 3 pins rather than continuity when the device is activated
Ok scrap that, just looked the part number up and they're standard mech relays
@@ralphj4012 Yeah the customer tells me that the cover opens and closes using the manual buttons on the recepteur unit. I tried all combinations of C O and F and everything read open circuit
As someone kinda mentioned before, this thing probably has a signal for limit detection in order to not activate the motors (via the relays) when the cover/lid is already fully closed or fully open. You might need to fake such signal in order to test the relay activation. Cheers!
(this limit detection could also take place somewhere close to the motors themselves, I don't know)
Paint stripper works a treat for c/coating Just give it a minute and clean with IPA.
nRF 905 from Nordic Semiconductor! That company is from my home town, Trondheim!
I have one of those from aliexpress. I buy it to test fobs keys and it works fine, it's like a mini rf frequency counter.
Heya, don't know anything about transmissing or receiving so gone learn a lot I hope
I hope the cabinet isn't made of metal. Nice RF shield!
Im just getting into RF stuff, so more videos on that topic would be awesome.
The 2 times used for open and close at 10 minutes in the video are relays or electricians call them contactors. I definately would check if they are working. They have multiple open or close contacts and the coil is normally switched via a smaller relay perhaps the the ones on your circuit boards.
They are contactors for switch power on and off to devices such as 3phase motors , heating elements ect.
on the cheap, USB SDR receiver would do. Some frequency counter with a pickup coil would also do. Cheapest and DIY is using something called RF field strength meter based on analog meter and couple of components.
Could the relays be switching the 24 volt supply as a control voltage to the main contactors that operate the motors for opening and closing the pool cover? One relay for each both using the normally open contact.
Also would be interesting to see how amplitude affects distance as may be the case here. Its all about transmit power I suppose ?
Hi Richard, I'm not sure I heard the history of these devices, but my comment relates to the two transceivers. Are they a matched pair? Are frequencies set to the same at either end, and are the addresses correct for inter operation. Devices are set up by an SPI interface, which has an instruction set to determine Frequency, Power, Address, etc.
Would a cheap car remote tester detect the transmitter? Aliexpress sell them.
Did you measure if the coil of the relays was actuated when pressing a button? Might need 3 hands for this
Your TinaSA is much more capable than that Ali-express box.
I didn't, I am going on the basis that the manual open and close buttons work the pool cover so the relays must be working