After 15 years in standard I switched to 4ths tuning (now I have about 4 months practicing on this and I will not go back). I do not agree to people that says there is a reason for the guitar to be tuned like standard (seens like God´s law). We have to realize that in the past the Vihuela (guitar ancestor) had the ADGBE tuning (one string less) and the music was not so complex like today (specially songs that modulate a lot), so the issues with inconsistent tuning were not big problems. It is true that certain characteristic guitar chord voicings are impossible in 4ths (the only downside I think), but it is also true that many others are possible. The standard tuning generates lots of different patterns that give us the same results (notes). I tended to use much more certain areas of the fretboard than others due the inconsistency of standard. Now in 4ths I feel that I use the guitar as a whole, because it is so easy to transport the ideas and fingerings back and forth.
In their many interviews, guitarists Andres Segovia and John Williams point out that the repertoire for the guitar until the early 20th century was poor. Also, not a single major composer ever composed for the guitar; it was a too quiet instrument with irregular tuning, few ever bothered with it. Instead, the guitar was used for simple dance and folk music and mostly remained there. It could play a bit of melody, a bit of rhythm. Rock and Blues, Flamenco, Bossa, etc. played on the guitar, are simple folk and folk-inspired styles. Add distortions and extra "effects", we get Hard Rock and Metal, which are mostly simplistic pentatonic motifs and "power chords" played rapidly. The majority of the 20th-century guitar music is still simplistic, following few simple chords per song, and a "riff or two", repetitive short licks etc. which musically speaking, are a continuation of dance and folk music, that loves "thrashing all strings" to allow the guitar to sound louder and project more. That was the only and REAL purpose of Standard tuning - increased projection by forcing the unison of the first and last string (lowest and highest frequencies, the simplest way of natural amplification), but .. via the irregular tuning in between. Like that, smash all strings, and the quiet instrument projects more. Otherwise, if the guitar was a seriously developed instrument with decent projection without amplification (like the piano or the violin), it would undoubtedly have regular tuning of some kind, and it WOULD have a great repertoire since its inception. But this serious issue with standard tuning is visible in the following: it breaks apart with more serious music. More complex music, like jazz and classical, fusion, etc. are EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT to play in Standard tuning. Because there is *no musical logic in standard tuning* - the tuning was devised nor for music logic, but for projection issues alone. Yet, that fact was never admitted but is clearly visible. Fingering of complex music thus becomes a maze of extraordinary complexity and kung-fu moves because the building elements of real improvisation - scales, parts of scales, chords, arpeggios, extended chords, substitutions, inversions etc. - are all different across the different parts of the fretboard. That is why in the guitar world, there is a sea of people who play several MEMORISED chords their entire life and BEG for tabs - not because they are lazy, or stupid, but because to crack the Standard tuning and make sense of it, and play more complex music, requires a full-time job. Standard tuning is guitar's curse; it locks the instrument in ever-simplistic music that repeats itself over and over again, with new "effects" added on top.
I decided to switch to this tuning after watching Tom Quayle's tutorials, and I have nothing but praise words for it. Thanks for changing my guitar life, Tom! Being more of a picking/arpeggiation kinda guy, rather than strumming, I found the fourth tuning very practical. Also, it considerably reduced the task of learning chord voicings, because of that "symmetry" you were talking about. Converting the songs I already knew, took some time, but it was fun. The real challenge I can think of, is when you want to learn a tabbed song, as most tabs are in standard, but if you learn mostly by ear, like I do, then it is no problem at all. The only instance Where I am still using standard, is when I'm building my repertoire of classical pieces on guitar. There is simply no way I can learn that thing by ear :-)
As a lifelong fiddle player, standard tuning sucks so hard. Guitar players approach the instrument fundamentally differently than strings players. You have shapes. We have intervals. You play across the neck, largely, and we play along the neck. That said, standard tuning just makes sense for people who just want to learn some shapes and play out some gorgeous, full chords. Like you said, it’s not an accident that guitars are tuned like this. For me, in my mid40s, I don’t want to learn three shapes when I could learn just one, let alone the inversions and all of that. I want to make guitar sounds. I have so much respect for people like you who have learned all of that. It’s just staggering to me how much knowledge you have in your head and at your fingers.
you dont have frets on fiddle, the guitar is a tempered instrument the guitar is designed to be a solo instrument, based on the classical guitar the upper strings are tuned in 4ths to allow for wider range on the bass, having a string tuned in 3rd allows for more conterpuntal options, once you can hold all the main chord tones with one finger, and as all string players knows, lowering the interval of the tuning = less stretch standard tuning is not just "shapes", its a way to play drop voicings and inversions a "A shape" or "E shape" barre chord are just a drop 2 4 open voicing on a piano, playing root + 5th + octave on the left hand, and the 3rd + 5th + octave (1st inversion) on the right hand (with extraroot and 5th on the higher strings), and there are many different inversions for each chord, there are also open triads that skip strings, 10th voicings, double stops and many conterpuntal techniques that is made possible by the 3rd interval
I keep the acoustic and Tele in standard for most soft rhythm stuff but for the shreddy stuff... Not a chance,C all fourths all day. BTW bar chords aren't THAT hard, just split the fret diagonally.
The benefit of standard tuning is it forces you to move to different areas of the next which changes the timbre of the instrument. I wouldn't bother trying it anymore.
when i was a punk back in 1987 i learned guitar on 2 strings simple bar chords EA... as years went on and i got into metal i played on 4 strings EADG....so when i finally progressed onto 6 strings i just tuned the added two strings same way i did the old 4... ending up i guess with quarter tuning which I still use - i cannot actually play on standard tuning ... anyway i found this video interesting BUT i duffer on some statements e.g. you cannot play a bar chord in quarters???? or did i hear that wrong? I am quite tempted to record again some chords I can play easy in quarters where standard tune guitar users go like whaaaaa... how did you play that cord as they sound surreal.... so im too old to change now - the band through the years learned to adapt to my tuning and a 2nd guitarist in standard tuning played together for many years pretty well despite us using different (as in quarter vs standard) tunings with D as a root note so my tuning is D G C F Bb Eb
As a working musician (not getting to form the music around my style) 4ths is useless. You might have barre chords you can play (obviously) but if you can’t play the chord voicings needed to make the song sound the way people expect it to sound, then it’s fundamentally useless to me. When I play Respect, the first chord is a Bb barre chord. Bb F Bb D F Bb. That’s what you gotta play. If I can’t, we have a problem. That make sense?
@@LeviClay hear you... i guess for me... i don't play covers... any!!! always wrote own material so 4th worked for me... too late to change at 56 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ruclips.net/video/LemVW0JxERY/видео.html
4ths is better. I played in Standard tuning for 14 years. Symmetry makes the guitar more adaptable. Its all E shapes CAGED fyi. Almost 2 months playing in 4ths I won't go back.
@@LeviClay i think you meant to say, but didn't, i can't play want i used to play, the way i played it, when using fourths tuning. i simply pointed out your exaggeration. BTW, here's a good example of someone playing bar chords using perfect fourths tuning: www.cnbc.com/2018/10/22/trump-repeats-dubious-pledge-to-introduce-middle-class-tax-cut-before-midterms.html
I said exactly what I meant to say. It’s not that I can’t play what I used to play, it’s that I can’t play what guitar players are actually hired to play. I’ve given up the bread and butter of guitar so I can make soloing a TINY bit easier... despite there being plenty of guys who have absolutely no problem soloing fluently in standard.
@@LeviClay as stated previously it was rubbish, as i pointed out. now you're restating it as, "i can't play what guitar players are actually hired to play.". which is more accurate and a far cry from the exaggerated original. but in a band ensemble it will never be noticed. playing solo acoustic, your revised criticism has some merit.
After 15 years in standard I switched to 4ths tuning (now I have about 4 months practicing on this and I will not go back). I do not agree to people that says there is a reason for the guitar to be tuned like standard (seens like God´s law). We have to realize that in the past the Vihuela (guitar ancestor) had the ADGBE tuning (one string less) and the music was not so complex like today (specially songs that modulate a lot), so the issues with inconsistent tuning were not big problems. It is true that certain characteristic guitar chord voicings are impossible in 4ths (the only downside I think), but it is also true that many others are possible. The standard tuning generates lots of different patterns that give us the same results (notes). I tended to use much more certain areas of the fretboard than others due the inconsistency of standard. Now in 4ths I feel that I use the guitar as a whole, because it is so easy to transport the ideas and fingerings back and forth.
My understanding of tuning in 4ths are that it becomes more like playing a piano
In fact, the piano is highly irregular -- it has 12 different major scale fingerings.
En realidad en una guitarra cada cuerda es como un piano, con la limitación de no poder tocar dos "teclas" por cuerda.
In their many interviews, guitarists Andres Segovia and John Williams point out that the repertoire for the guitar until the early 20th century was poor. Also, not a single major composer ever composed for the guitar; it was a too quiet instrument with irregular tuning, few ever bothered with it. Instead, the guitar was used for simple dance and folk music and mostly remained there. It could play a bit of melody, a bit of rhythm. Rock and Blues, Flamenco, Bossa, etc. played on the guitar, are simple folk and folk-inspired styles. Add distortions and extra "effects", we get Hard Rock and Metal, which are mostly simplistic pentatonic motifs and "power chords" played rapidly. The majority of the 20th-century guitar music is still simplistic, following few simple chords per song, and a "riff or two", repetitive short licks etc. which musically speaking, are a continuation of dance and folk music, that loves "thrashing all strings" to allow the guitar to sound louder and project more. That was the only and REAL purpose of Standard tuning - increased projection by forcing the unison of the first and last string (lowest and highest frequencies, the simplest way of natural amplification), but .. via the irregular tuning in between. Like that, smash all strings, and the quiet instrument projects more. Otherwise, if the guitar was a seriously developed instrument with decent projection without amplification (like the piano or the violin), it would undoubtedly have regular tuning of some kind, and it WOULD have a great repertoire since its inception.
But this serious issue with standard tuning is visible in the following: it breaks apart with more serious music. More complex music, like jazz and classical, fusion, etc. are EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT to play in Standard tuning. Because there is *no musical logic in standard tuning* - the tuning was devised nor for music logic, but for projection issues alone. Yet, that fact was never admitted but is clearly visible. Fingering of complex music thus becomes a maze of extraordinary complexity and kung-fu moves because the building elements of real improvisation - scales, parts of scales, chords, arpeggios, extended chords, substitutions, inversions etc. - are all different across the different parts of the fretboard. That is why in the guitar world, there is a sea of people who play several MEMORISED chords their entire life and BEG for tabs - not because they are lazy, or stupid, but because to crack the Standard tuning and make sense of it, and play more complex music, requires a full-time job. Standard tuning is guitar's curse; it locks the instrument in ever-simplistic music that repeats itself over and over again, with new "effects" added on top.
Alex Hutchings. Not a "jazz" player, and uses 4ths tuning - brilliantly, with some excellent chordal playing too.
Aye he is quite jazzy to be fair
I decided to switch to this tuning after watching Tom Quayle's tutorials, and I have nothing but praise words for it. Thanks for changing my guitar life, Tom!
Being more of a picking/arpeggiation kinda guy, rather than strumming, I found the fourth tuning very practical. Also, it considerably reduced the task of learning chord voicings, because of that "symmetry" you were talking about. Converting
the songs I already knew, took some time, but it was fun. The real challenge I can think of, is when you want to learn a tabbed
song, as most tabs are in standard, but if you learn mostly by ear, like I do, then it is no problem at all. The only instance Where I am still using standard, is when I'm building my repertoire of classical pieces on guitar. There is simply no way I can learn that thing by ear :-)
As a lifelong fiddle player, standard tuning sucks so hard. Guitar players approach the instrument fundamentally differently than strings players. You have shapes. We have intervals. You play across the neck, largely, and we play along the neck.
That said, standard tuning just makes sense for people who just want to learn some shapes and play out some gorgeous, full chords. Like you said, it’s not an accident that guitars are tuned like this.
For me, in my mid40s, I don’t want to learn three shapes when I could learn just one, let alone the inversions and all of that. I want to make guitar sounds.
I have so much respect for people like you who have learned all of that. It’s just staggering to me how much knowledge you have in your head and at your fingers.
you dont have frets on fiddle, the guitar is a tempered instrument
the guitar is designed to be a solo instrument, based on the classical guitar
the upper strings are tuned in 4ths to allow for wider range on the bass, having a string tuned in 3rd allows for more conterpuntal options, once you can hold all the main chord tones with one finger, and as all string players knows, lowering the interval of the tuning = less stretch
standard tuning is not just "shapes", its a way to play drop voicings and inversions
a "A shape" or "E shape" barre chord are just a drop 2 4 open voicing on a piano, playing root + 5th + octave on the left hand, and the 3rd + 5th + octave (1st inversion) on the right hand (with extraroot and 5th on the higher strings), and there are many different inversions for each chord, there are also open triads that skip strings, 10th voicings, double stops and many conterpuntal techniques that is made possible by the 3rd interval
I keep the acoustic and Tele in standard for most soft rhythm stuff but for the shreddy stuff... Not a chance,C all fourths all day. BTW bar chords aren't THAT hard, just split the fret diagonally.
Great! Thank you!
The benefit of standard tuning is it forces you to move to different areas of the next which changes the timbre of the instrument. I wouldn't bother trying it anymore.
Stanley Jordan also plays all fourths.
when i was a punk back in 1987 i learned guitar on 2 strings simple bar chords EA... as years went on and i got into metal i played on 4 strings EADG....so when i finally progressed onto 6 strings i just tuned the added two strings same way i did the old 4... ending up i guess with quarter tuning which I still use - i cannot actually play on standard tuning ... anyway i found this video interesting BUT i duffer on some statements e.g. you cannot play a bar chord in quarters???? or did i hear that wrong? I am quite tempted to record again some chords I can play easy in quarters where standard tune guitar users go like whaaaaa... how did you play that cord as they sound surreal.... so im too old to change now - the band through the years learned to adapt to my tuning and a 2nd guitarist in standard tuning played together for many years pretty well despite us using different (as in quarter vs standard) tunings with D as a root note
so my tuning is D G C F Bb Eb
www.seaford.k12.ny.us/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=2042&dataid=2903&FileName=Circle%20of%204ths%20in%20Unison.pdf
As a working musician (not getting to form the music around my style) 4ths is useless. You might have barre chords you can play (obviously) but if you can’t play the chord voicings needed to make the song sound the way people expect it to sound, then it’s fundamentally useless to me.
When I play Respect, the first chord is a Bb barre chord. Bb F Bb D F Bb. That’s what you gotta play. If I can’t, we have a problem.
That make sense?
@@LeviClay hear you... i guess for me... i don't play covers... any!!! always wrote own material so 4th worked for me... too late to change at 56 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ruclips.net/video/LemVW0JxERY/видео.html
4ths is better. I played in Standard tuning for 14 years. Symmetry makes the guitar more adaptable. Its all E shapes CAGED fyi. Almost 2 months playing in 4ths I won't go back.
"you can't play bar chords" (@3:58). lol. what rubbish!
Please post a video of you playing the thing I played there. I’ll wait.
@@LeviClay
i think you meant to say, but didn't, i can't play want i used to play, the way i played it, when using fourths tuning. i simply pointed out your exaggeration.
BTW, here's a good example of someone playing bar chords using perfect fourths tuning:
www.cnbc.com/2018/10/22/trump-repeats-dubious-pledge-to-introduce-middle-class-tax-cut-before-midterms.html
I said exactly what I meant to say. It’s not that I can’t play what I used to play, it’s that I can’t play what guitar players are actually hired to play. I’ve given up the bread and butter of guitar so I can make soloing a TINY bit easier... despite there being plenty of guys who have absolutely no problem soloing fluently in standard.
@@LeviClay as stated previously it was rubbish, as i pointed out. now you're restating it as, "i can't play what guitar players are actually hired to play.". which is more accurate and a far cry from the exaggerated original. but in a band ensemble it will never be noticed. playing solo acoustic, your revised criticism has some merit.
Blade Runner again, I’m not restating it. I’ve always had this exact view. One that I notice you’re not disputing.