Glad everyone is ok! This was close to ending very differently. Hopefully, new boaters can learn several things from this video. Never get on a flooded river unless you and your team have solid rescue skills, and a roll. Always have the inexperienced boater(s) in the middle of the group, NEVER lead a swimmer into entanglement hazards while trying to get them out of the water. (She was incredibly lucky not to have gotten trapped on a strainer), If a member of your group disappears like she did, you DO NOT continue down the river; she could have easily been trapped with no one there to help and it is incredibly dangerous to continue down a flooded river solo, (as later seen in the video). People over boats, too much in this video was on saving the boat. Get the swimmer(s) out safely, then your team gets out, regroup, and go to plan B. I always appreciate people posting videos like this so others can learn and hopefully stay safe on the river.
A literal “what not to do” video from start finish. Excellent example of not knowing what you don’t know when beginning new adventures. The outcome is nothing short of a miracle. Thanks for posting. Glad you all made it!
when the water is brown, i don't go near it. lost 2 friends drowning at 15 years old in 1999 in a river. We jumped in it just for fun. I'm the only survivor.
It took 4 days to find the bodies of my friends, they were lost in the current. Our phone at home was ringing non stop, my mom decided to unplug the line so we can have a bit of peace.
Great video of what not to do. Seriously thanks for sharing. We all make poor choices, posting this video is a great reminder of a river that is normally in our skillset that can morph into a much more difficult beast.
Running any river in a high flood stage is generally not a good call for a novice. Especially when the normal bank is submerged, and it is flowing in trees like this. Very easy to get tangled in a strainer. When the water is flowing at levels like this there can be whole trees floating down the river to contend with as well. Also, going with a larger more experienced group is a good idea too. This no kind of water for a sit on top or open kayak either. Keep that stuff on Class II rapids and under. Finally, keep an eye on the weather. River conditions can change fast with heavy downpours. You might not even be getting rained on while the river is quickly rising beneath you. All this advice is from a fellow novice who also got in over his head, lol.
I am glad everyone is ok. I appreciate you exposing yourself to the internet's harsh scrutiny to let others learn from your mistake. We all need to keep safety in mind. Thank you!
That's what I was thinking. Definitely not a how to do things right kind of day! Thank you for not chewing me up and spitting me out. I assume those people think I'm proud of this day or something maybe.
I think it says a lot about you. You made an unintentional mistake and shared it with others so they can see the perspective and learn from your mistakes. Truly someone I want in my corner.
@@toekneegreen37 I'm thinking this is providing a valuable service to others to warn them about what not to get into and how badly things can go if you underestimate a high, rapid river.
@@kevin179887thank you for understanding that. I'm the wife in this video. We made so many stupid mistakes and got very, very lucky. We're still paddling all the time but😂have since taken swift water rescue and another rescue class, have worked hard to enhance our skills and practice safety techniques frequently. My husband has about a 99% success rate with on-side, off-side, back deck and hand rolls. He's done Tallulah and cheoah because he's got the skills. I've got about a 90% success rate with my on-side roll and am taking private instruction to help towards other rolls. I won't do anything bigger than the Ocoee until I have more skills in my wheelhouse.
Man, this brings back some painful memories. I’m glad you guys are all ok. We were less than a half mile into our run in 2016 when things went as bad as possible. One of my best friends got in an awful position and was unable to surface on his own. We were in no position to start a rescue mission in time, as he was at the rear of the pack. His kayak caught up to us, and we didn’t see him. It wasn’t until the next day when he was recovered. Even though the other 6 of us didn’t see it happen, we all live with nightmares of what we pictured happened. I was an avid kayaker for a decade up until that point. Hitting the water every weekend. I gave it up that very day. Strictly just lazy river fishing floats for me. You don’t know what true danger is until you’re in it, and I don’t care to find out. Keep your heads on straight, and don’t take any shortcuts when it comes to safety. RIP Lee-Boy.
There's nothing wrong with lazy river fishing. Sorry to hear about your friend. Crashing a motorcycle made me more risk averse on my weekend warrior activities; although I did Brazilian jiu jitsu until I had to do my first full hip replacement.
Thanks for posting this. Your breathing when you capsized (and the rest of the way) tells the entire story. Things can go very wrong very quickly when rivers are at flood stage and sometimes it is best to leave the launching boat ramp and go grab a coffee instead. The water sets the rules. Always. Man, glad y'all are OK. That could have ended very differently.
Yep, getting some pizza would have definitely been the better day! But on the plus side, we lived and learned a lot and have become much smarter boaters.
Thank you for posting this video, there is a wealth of knowledge to be learned from mistakes, and its nice if people can learn from others mistakes without all the trauma of the experience. To all the snarky commenters, what good is it to shame a person for a fault they already admitted and are now remedying? It's literally the most humble way to handle the situation and teach others.
@@pancakepillow thank you for your kindness. I'm the wife in this video and I can say that we've learned so much since this experience. It's hard to not feel embarrassed about this and some of the comments are hurtful, but I agree with my husband that leaving it up is the right move. We've even been featured on a Facebook group called Bad Whitewater Rafting Advice and are now being a bit crucified there 🙄
@@toekneegreen37 Everyone thinks they are bullet proof until shit goes south, most people wouldn't be brave enough to post their failure to help others just because their ego's are too fragile.
Hoollyyyy Shiiiit. I'm going to man's this a suggested watch for all my intro students. This is exactly what i tell them to watch out for when starting out. Know before you go. And if it's brown, turn around. By sharing this video, you have saved lives. So glad you all made it out alive.
I've seen this so many times out on the river. After paddling for 25 years, I'm of the opinion that class 3 water isn't for people who can't roll. If you don't have the discipline to get your roll down in flatwater first, then class 2, maybe whitewater kayaking isn't for you.
@@toekneegreen37 It is class III at those levels, as defined by the American Whitewater page. I'd recommend looking up the American Whitewater page before going on ANY whitewater run. Even if you thought that the river was at 4 feet, AW says ">4 = High water, additional skill required (III/IV), not good for beginners." Please learn basic river safety and the fundamentals like looking up gauges before paddling. This could have easily been fatal. This is a high-risk sport, and should be treated that way. You put yourselves at risk, but you also put the entire sport at risk of being banned from specific rivers. Not to mention the stress and trauma you put on the S&R folks who have to rescue or recover you.
@@toekneegreen37 Not class III? At a lower level, yes. Glad everyone ended up okay, flooded rivers are a different beast. No reflection on you but the Georgia Canoe Association offers excellent whitewater instruction, including river rescue.
@@annaharrison7403 So, as the wife in this video, I can agree that it was an epic shit show and we were, in fact, clueless. We were told by the outfitter that it was running roughly 4 feet and that level was appropriate for our skill level. We had no idea that it had spiked to roughly 7 feet. We had no business being out there and we are 100% aware of that. We had only been paddling for a few months at the time but we had a friend with us who paddled that river many, many times and we felt okay putting on. We quickly realized we had made a huge mistake and we do recognize that the poor decisions continued one after another. We got really lucky and this situation really shook us, thankfully. Since then, we have grown significantly as boaters, have taken swift water rescue as well as an additional safety course. I have a pretty solid roll and am working on improving my on side as well as an off-side and back deck roll. My husband is a freaking beast on the water and can pretty much roll up in 99% of situations and fuckery and is known for being super supportive and reliable with rescues on the water. We regularly practice T-rescues, reading water, catching eddies, ferrying and communication about what moves to make. We definitely screwed up royally starting out, we know we are super lucky, and we worked hard to redeem ourselves and ensure that nothing like this happens again.
@@stevethomas760 we have since taken several safety classes, upgraded gear, both of us have a roll, my husband can roll up in just about any situation between his on-side, off-side, back deck, and hand roll. I'm solid with my on-side and am taking classes for other rolls in order to increase safety for myself and others.
We bought a brand new 18 ft aluminum Canoe in the spring of 74 ... one month later wrapped it around a boulder in West Virginia. This Video is very exciting on that exact same level. Right up there with our 400 foot destroyer going under the sea in the F5. Like the song says, " Sometimes water gets rough..."
Never ever swim towards the shore when there are trees and branches in this strong current, that was a really bad decision to be hounest. Once you get stuck in these branches, the current will pull you down and you will drown. Never ever try to touch the bottom with your legs, just keep floating as flat as possible until you reach a calmer part of the river or an island without driftwood. Glad you all made it, this is a video with some valuable lessons. Cheers from the Netherlands.
Very easy to be critical of this. I'm shocked that this even happened. Definitely happy they all made it out alive and seriously hope they will take up some professional training with qualifed/experienced clubs/kayakers.
We learned more from this one day than anything else. And it has prompted us do more and get better and better. In fact later this month we will be getting our level 4 swift water rescue certification :)
@@taitfreeman9421So, as the wife in this video, I can agree that it was an epic shit show and we were, in fact, clueless. We were told by the outfitter that it was running roughly 4 feet and that level was appropriate for our skill level. We had no idea that it had spiked to roughly 7 feet. We had no business being out there and we are 100% aware of that. We had only been paddling for a few months at the time but we had a friend with us who paddled that river many, many times and we felt okay putting on. We quickly realized we had made a huge mistake and we do recognize that the poor decisions continued one after another. We got really lucky and this situation really shook us, thankfully. Since then, we have grown significantly as boaters, have taken swift water rescue as well as an additional safety course. I have a pretty solid roll and am working on improving my on side as well as an off-side and back deck roll. My husband is a freaking beast on the water and can pretty much roll up in 99% of situations and fuckery and is known for being super supportive and reliable with rescues on the water. We regularly practice T-rescues, reading water, catching eddies, ferrying and communication about what moves to make. We definitely screwed up royally starting out, we know we are super lucky, and we worked hard to redeem ourselves and ensure that nothing like this happens again. We could take the video down based on rude, non-productive comments from assholes like you, but we feel that it might help others learn from our mistakes. My husband is now considered one of the best boaters in our area and, although I'm not nearly as skilled as he is, I can certainly hold my own. We are often inundated with requests to lead trips down some of our local runs and are known for being both skilled and kind.... except towards comments like this.
@@traceygreen9273sorry for all the rude comments. It’s really good of you both to post this video as there’s so much to learn from it. I have white water kayaked myself in the past and don’t anymore as it scares the life out of me! As a beginner kayaker we were once put on a very flooded Scottish river in the highlands. Very narrow and lots of features. I swam within the first 30 seconds I reckon, and a much more experienced paddler was able to offer the back of his boat. How he stayed upright in that volume and speed of water, I’ll never know. Had to be pulled out by my PDF as I used all my strength hanging on. And on another occasion, I witnessed a fellow kayaked get pinned upside down underwater over a waterfall, in such a position that she couldn’t pull her spray deck. I seriously thought we were going to loose her that day. I was a novice in both instances, being led by a much more experienced group. We definitely shouldn’t have been on that flooded river. The trip was over very quickly once all hell broke loose and there were swimmers everywhere. But the 2nd instance I think was fluke and poor luck. River kayaking still scares the hell out of me, but I admire anyone who has the love of it still. It’s amazing that your experience has lead you to learning as much as you can, rather than backing off. I think knowledge of water, whether you’re a kayaker or not, is invaluable. I did comment about the walking across the river on another comment, but can see this is old and you’ve posted this video for the benefit of others. Thanks again for sharing!
That exact thing happened to me on my first trip in a kayak. Took the roll class and friends took me to a river. They didn't expect it to be so high but said it will be fine. I think I got a half a mile and rolled couldn't get back up and bailed ended up on a rock in the middle of the river which turned into a rescue. After they dragged me to shore they said the rail trail is up this bank, walk to the take out almost three miles and left me on the bank with the boat and my gear. Started dragged the kayak and after about half way they had sent a ranger up the trail in a pick up to find me. Never got in a kayak again, was nearly my last day on Earth. Thanks ex buds!!
Holy cow, yeah things can go south quick. It took me months to learn how to roll, I didn't have a solid combat roll yet and shouldn't have been on the river at this level.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am glad you all made it, that was a very dangerous situation. I hope other kayakers will see this and be reminded of the power of whitewater and seek to learn how to keep themselves and others. You are doing a very good thing by sharing the dangers people should watch out for.
An accident waiting to happen, happened! Count thyself lucky...very lucky indeed! Years ago I used to give a talk called, "Levels of The Game" in which I described the importance of knowing your level of technical competence and staying within that level. As I used to point out, most of us came up through an educational system that told us to "take chances" and "risk being wrong." While that works well most of the time in the academic world in the world of nature every test is pass/fail no make up allowed! And the first test you fail may be the last test you ever take!
We thought we did that, talked to the people that know the river best and knew us. However none of us realized the river was about to shoot up . But definitely agree that this was above our post grade back then.
@@toekneegreen37 The Catch 22 of staying within your level of competence is that you don't have enough experience to realistically evaluate the level of expertise called for. Based upon the footage in your video most of the conditions you encountered were Class 2 or less. The danger was largely limited to a river overflowing its banks thus presenting numerous potentially dangerous "strainers" which you repeatedly appeared to underestimate the danger of. I admire your willingness to share your misadventure with others in hopes of helping them appreciate the potential consequences of poor decision making. But in the future it would be wise for you to double the danger rating and cut by 75% your guess as to how capable you are meeting the challenge. I've been a licensed Maine Guide for more than 40 years and a Coast Guard licensed boat captain for 30 and that's the formula I've used successfully for myself for all those years.
Good idea! These days I do bigger water than this, and hopefully am a better judge of what I can handle. I trust the people I paddle with and we do a much better job of keeping each other safe!
I'm glad everyone is ok and thank you for posting this. All around this was a messed up group of paddlers who never should have been on this river! Many will and can learn from this video.
Thank you for sharing your video. A friend and myself are just getting into kayaking. We did a small tour with class 1 and class 2 waves and on sit on kayaks. I came off on every rapid. I watched your video holding my breath the whole way! Thank you for sharing. It will definitely help those of us who are new to this sport but I never will ever paddle a river like that one..lol.. I'm thinking the lake is perfect for me :) Glad you are all ok. I was really worried watching it.
Great video. There is no substitute for experience. I use to teach "Safety Afloat" to boy scout adults. I always started off each session asking how many people had had life threading experiences on water. amazingly there was almost 80% of people raising their hands. River at flood are always dangerous. We got on the Chattahoochee above Helen in our whitewater kayaks late one afternoon. As we came around a curve in the river we could see tree tops. We got out to scout. It was a large, double drop waterfall. There was no mention of this waterfall in the river guide book we had. We tethered our kayaks together and slowly started lowering them along the waterfall. Well, one kayak slid over into the river and filled with water. Quickly all of them were full of water. We spent an hour getting them all out and getting back on the river. It was beginning to get dark and it was hard to see the rocks in the river when we finally arrived at our takeout. After that, never got on a river I didn't know after noon. That was the second time I had taken out at dark. Saved my bacon several years later when my buddies wanted to get on a class V river, didn't know the water level, didn't know the river, I waited for them at the take out. Two walked out. One got chased by a bull and hung up on an electric fence, one had gone over a waterfall backwards and hurt his arm and cracked his helmet, and one made it to the take out. We got a motel that night. The next day went back in to get the kayaks that were left. A friendly farmer took us to the edge of the canyon at the back of his property where we hiked in and got the kayaks, and paddled them down the rest of the river to the take out.
Experience is the best teacher! Lessons leaned the hard way stick a little better. Chased by a bull lol... Sitting that one out was definitely the right move
I hope know better these days, but there were times when I can imagine if I ended up in the same bad situation I could have made some of the bad decisions shown here. This video is extremely educational for all of us, thank you very much for posting it.
wow. glad yall lived. i always wondered what this looks like at flood stage. it's very similar to the hooch below buford dam during a release (class 2-3 when each wave and bump is taken individually, but actually class 4 cause they aren't individual and it's continuous and class 5-5+ if someone swims and needs to get to shore). your video really shows how at flood stage the banks become strainers and it makes for that class 5 swim. the hole you flipped in at 18:00 is first ledge of the rapid 3 ledges (second ledge isn't visible, and you got out on top of 3rd ledge). when the river is around 4-ish feet there's potential for a possibly terminal hole on river left, but it was washed out. you probably weren't gonna be able to paddle out even with a bomb proof roll. rolling up doesn't magically get you out of that low head dam kind of hole, and it's got enough power to loop you even if you can stabilize a surf. the technique is frantic paddling on the downstream side while side surfing to claw your way to the edge of the hole where water is flowing past. That's WAY easier to type than to actually do. i teach beginners on this section (at normal levels), so i'm intimately familiar with the run. i bet this is actually more difficult at 4 feet because a lot of what I expected to see at the buck island and canoe eating rock section was so far underwater it was out of play. but also at that level if you swim, you aren't going full george of the jungle to get to land. as for the recovery. commenters here underestimate the difficulty of getting back upstream. yeah, everything about that was as bad as it could be, but you can't just bippityboppitybloop your boat back upstream to pick someone up. "but he should have caught an edd"[batman slap] THERE ARE NO EDDIES! everything's underwater! for what it's worth if it comes up again, I like to swim in the middle of the river when i'm in the chocolate milk and look downstream for a better place to exit. pushing a capsized kayak is always gonna be a struggle; i like to bump it around so i'm downstream of it, facing upstream at it, with the upstream end of the sunk boat pointing towards the shore i'm trying to go to. put my bow into the sunk boat's cockpit and that lets me paddle with both hands (try it on the lake sometime). i use that method more than the rescue cowtail on my pfd. once again, easier to type than to do cause pushing a capsized creekboat in current is like stopping a ford f150 someone left in drive. also it's nice when everyone has practiced a boat over boat rescue and deepwater reentry. probably wouldn't have been successful here, but having options is good and swimming an empty boat in is more realistic. anyone worth paddling with has been in a situation where they realized they made a critical oopsie. glad yall kept at it.
We definitely shouldn't have been on the water at this time but we learned from our mistakes and took some safety classes and are much better off for it. All your points are spot on, probably the best advice I've gotten from this video! Thank you very much.
@@toekneegreen37 It's not just about the numbers on the river gauge. You thought it was four and it turned out to be six or seven. But if I heard you right, even four was about twice what you usually ran it. That should have been cause for extreme caution right there, even under the BEST of conditions! The level didn't matter. The picture the river was presenting was all you really needed to make the proper decision. The SPEED and COLOR of the current and the greater WIDTH of the river with continuous foliage obliterating the banks + two inexperience decked boaters and one paddler on a sit-on-top = "GO HOME." IMHO, these are the question EVERY boater should ask themselves before EVERY river trip: 1. Do I have the minimum skills necessary to run this river at this level? 2. Do at least one or two members of my party unquestionably have far greater skills than mine? 3. Do we have an adequate number of members within our party to render necessary aid to each other as may be required (Note: A pair of fully qualified Class V boaters taking on the Cataracts of the Kern at high water are about three boaters shy of a full deck!! And we see videos of this all the time.) 4. Who's the recognized group leader? Who are the weakest links in the chain and need the most support? Who are the designated sweep boaters who will allow NO other members of the group to drift behind the pack? 5. Is everyone adequately equipped with protective and rescue equipment? For those not experienced in swift water rescue, do they understand that if an emergency occurs, their first order of business is to paddle to safety and/or continue in such fashion that they do not risk making the situation worse. The most important of these questions and answers are 2 thru 5. You can step up in class and take on new white water risks if you are adequately supported. Questions 2 thru 5, however, are particularly critical if YOU the person helping others take that step up. Five more beginners in the above video, however, would have merely resulted in more shrapnel in the hand grenade.
step one, get side to side with the capsized boat. step two, Cockpit facing you pull sideways and push back of boat down (float bags are stored here). step three, Once you push down pull front across boat emptying it of water and slide to other side. step four, wayyy lighter to tow to shore.
Incredible video, thank you for sharing. Me and my family bought a couple of inflatable paddle boards we have taken down the Hooch a couple of times during low water, from buford dam to settles bridge. We flipped last time as 20 mile rock/rescue rock, so ive been watching videos to learn more about hoe to stay safe. This was really helpful and we definitely wont be on the ruver during a water release! Glad yall were okay
Remind never to rob a bank with this guy......the alrm went off and he left tracy standing in the street with money 😂 "hoping tracy got to shore" was priceless.....as if that somehow makes it ok to ditch your partner in a river rapid to drown.
Man, i live about a mile from lake seminole which is the southern most point of the hooch. Its about 200 yards wide and several holes 40+ feet deep and slow as molasses. Its unreal, the contrast between here and there. I kayak when i go hunting, 1.5 miles down and then 1.5 miles back up river. Man im glad you all made it out of that river.
Ummm....isnt getting back in the kayak one of the first drills before going downriver? Also as a one-time-only rafter we backpaddled into most of the big stuff i guess to increase maneuver time.
Also i notice you are overreaching. Paddle much closer ahead when you need power, your arms are too weak reaching way out. Just go slightly ahead of straight down and haul back to your body. Water a bit deeper down is also a lot more tractiony
Getting back into a boat that's full of water in the middle of a flooded river is not something anyone does. Rolling up after getting flipped, yes that's a thing. My till at the time was better than 50/50 but 0 that day apparently lol
You have the most power from your feet to your knees. You don't pull with your arms you twist with your hips. You get very little power with the paddle down deep or past your hips.
I’m so glad you are all OK! And thank you for posting a video of this frightful adventure. you show guts fighting through it and also fighting through the stupid troll comments that are sprinkled throughout here
Thank you! I'm the wife in this video. People can be so freaking hateful and some of the comments are just downright mean. We've been fortunate enough to survive this experience and have grown significantly since this.
I watched this start to end. I’m glad it turned out ok. Last time I swam was in the Arkansas River in Browns Canyon. Something you never forget. Part of the sport that you need to be trained and prepared for. This video is a great training video. Thanks for sharing.
@@toekneegreen37 I’m from Colorado and more less a beginner. Most rivers around here go from class 1-4 it seems like. Having a friend around is a something special. Loosing your boat around here seems like a normal thing. There are lost and found Facebook pages for lost paddles and boats. As a beginner it’s a hard pill to swallow. I saw a video earlier today of a hydraulic with pieces of an orange boat in it. These rivers are powerful and unforgiving. Just a reminder that I need to stay in my lane. Hopefully I won’t have to put out an ad asking if anyone has seen my boat.
Ive run this at 7'2" and its not bad, there are a few holes to stay out of, and trees, and if like me you can not roll, do not go for your boat go for the bank. Your boat will be highway 52 for pick up.
Little problems can become big, when you’re out on the water. Looked like your kayak got stuck in a hydraulic, I’m glad you didn’t get stuck. I’m happy everyone made it out safe! Thanks for sharing
I'm glad that you guys were okay, but so many things went wrong here. Before you get back on the river, you need a new paddle, learn how to roll in a combat situation, and especially take swiftwater rescue to learn how to safely and efficiently rescue somebody and their gear, and how to swim when in a rapid
100% agree. I'm the wife in this video. We made so many stupid mistakes and got very, very lucky. We're still paddling all the time but have since taken swift water rescue and another rescue class, have worked hard to enhance our skills and practice safety techniques frequently. My husband has about a 99% success rate with on-side, off-side, back deck and hand rolls. He's done Tallulah and cheoah because he's got the skills. I've got about a 90% success rate with my on-side roll and am taking private instruction to help towards other rolls. I won't do anything bigger than the Ocoee until I have more skills in my wheelhouse. We learned a lot from this experience. And we have spent an absolute fortune on new paddles, better gear, new boats, and some lessons.
Your boat (purple) looks like a tough boat to roll for a beginner. The straight vertical sides can make it tough and sometimes your roll wil “stall” for lack of a better word.
@@timmckennie4276 yeah, this was when I was really new to the sport. I've since learned to roll this boat as well as others. The wavesport was actually easier than my half slice.
@@traceygreen9273 That's great that you guys have improved your skills and gotten better gear. Again, I'm glad y'all are okay. Hope to see you on the river.
@6:05 when you look back at Tracy, that's the moment after which it's pretty much everybody for themselves. You are REALLY LUCKY (kayaker for 49 years).
Much thanks for posting this; it's a genuine, selfless public service. I will share this with a number of friends (and I have subscribed). I read through all the comments as well. I'm very glad that you all survived that day and have since proactively learned much! Pardon this question: you mentioned that Charlie's run was smoother because he was on the Torrent. I'm an old fart that has paddled much my whole life, but never significant whitewater. I don't YET know how to roll, but am eager to nail it. In the meanwhile, I'm seriously considering buying a sit-on-top whitewater boat. (I've looked at the Torrent, but lean much more towards the Fluid "Do it Now"). Like many, in the past a sit-on-top was out of the question for me. But being 63 and as of yet not having rolls down, and the only local whitewater being a relatively short run (in and out, over and over) of new artificial features in the local river, not having to trouble with a skirt is attractive. How does Charlie like his Torrent, and is he still paddling it? By the way, I love floodwaters and have long paddled them often, mainly because of the backwaters that open up.
He has since gotten a sit in kayak. He had paddled the Torrent on Class 2 and light Class 3 for years and loved it . His run was much another probably because he had more experience parking than we did. He got flipped out a couple times, hit in the head by the boat a couple times but managed to stay with it and çrawl back in. His wife and kids will take the Torrents out. They are really stable and great boats. I've rolled his in flat water but it is a beast to roll, not sure if I could do it in current.
That was intense, I love to kayak, and I thought about going down White River in Indiana when it floods, but after seeing this, I don't think I'll try it. There's been several people killed trying to go down it while flooded .
@@toekneegreen37 Yes, but mainly when I see the Chattahoochee moving that fast, don't even unload the kayaks. Go home or grab breakfast with your friends and then go home. 🤣
I have a river near me called the pudding that gets like this during the winter. During the summer months it is nothing but a 1ft deep creek. Very good video. Scary to watch at times.
These lines in the video description are something to learn from as well: "Well, Charlie was able to make it all the way and even saved our boats! He's our hero!" Yikes. I'm sure you'd agree now that there are no heroes from this paddling day and that 'people over gear/boats' is the way to go. You're all fortunate to survive this one. Thanks for your honesty in your follow-up comments here in the chat. It's so clear that you used this as a major learning experience and took lots of steps after... Wishing you (and everyone here) the best for future fun and safe adventures on the water!!
As a new kayaker (1 year) I'd never kayak on a river without an experienced rescuer, even a grade 2. I'm happy to kayak on flat water alone but I can roll and accept the possibility some random badness could happen. Even on flat water you can try to roll a couple of times and get a mouthful of water and it's not pleasant and certainly an eyeopener when you have to pull the deck. Glad you're okay!
Even having a perfect flatwater roll won't mean you'll be able to do it in rough water. But you are totally right. Really shouldn't have gone out that day.
Holy cow! Sooo many basic safety rules broken! A few: 1. Assess the river. It was up in the trees when you put in - many, many lethal strainers ahead! 2. Keep together! 3. When someone swims EVERYONE goes to assist! 4. Get to the swimmer - get your stern loop so they can grab it. 5. The swimmer should hang onto paddle, if they can. The swimmer should grab the stern loop and HANG ON, and KICK in time with the paddle strokes of the boater. WAIT until the water is really shallow - ankle deep- before trying to stand up. Hike to your boat. 6. After the swimmer is safe, get boats & gear. Get boats, gear & swimmer on the same side of the river! 7. DO NOT paddle away from a swimmer until they are safely on shore!
You don't know what you don't know. It was way above our knowledge and skill level at the time. We weren't trying to do it at this level, the last update of the river gauge had it at 4 feet, but turns out it was freezing to nearly 7! Not even the experts at the outfitters realized the true level. Smartest thing would have been to get back in the van and come back another day! Everything worked out, we learned a lot, and now others can hopefully learn from my mistakes : )
This was very bad play calling, I’m sure y’all learned a life saving lesson for the future & this is a great video to express a few safety red flags! You led your wife directly into strainers. At higher water a branch is going to snap almost immediately against the weight of a person and the current. She would’ve been better off floating in the main flow until that river bank. The first eddy you missed after you realized you didn’t see her wouldve made this entire rescue story different. Panic happens n so does shit! But by golly please go by the rule of do you feel comfortable being the only rescuer and do you have someone to rescue you! If not, invite more boaters for your excursion. This was hard to watch my friends I’m glad y’all are okay! A really good educational video - thanks for putting it out for newer kayakers to learn from!
Oh yeah we learned so much and have since taken a few rescue classes. So many mistakes were made, hopefully others don't have to make the same mistakes we did.
Flood stage rivers are so difficult to deal with swim situations because they don't give you any downtime, the water is moving so fast. Combined w those damn thick bushes lining the sides that was rough
@@huntermaxwell6406 yeah, we definitely got in way over our heads. We honestly thought it was 4 feet and the outfitter that shuttled us assured us of that. We had no business out there and we recognize that we got so, so lucky.
@@brittanycannon5280 thank you for not trying to crucify us for posting our epic mistakes. We have grown significantly since this and have gained tremendous experience.
glad you posted this as if for nothing else on a lesson on what not to do when going out on a river , always check the river levels , if your going to go on moving water with even a grade 2 rapid you should be either trained or be capable of self or group rescue and have the extra equipment with you to do so , at nearly 12.30 the caption "hoping she made it to shore" , you dont hope you check regardless of a kayak floating off down the river ,, this was a complete sh@t show from the beggining and always remember kayaks etc can be replaced , you life carnt !!! stay safe on the river glad your all ok
Glad everyone is ok, a lot of poor decisions made but hi d sight is 20-20. Hope you all learned a lot and aren't taking unnecessary risks like this anymore. It was like watching a horror movie, every time i was thinking "dont do that", "that" was done. Stay safe out there.
So, as the wife in this video, I can agree that it was an epic shit show and we were, in fact, clueless. We were told by the outfitter that it was running roughly 4 feet and that level was appropriate for our skill level. We had no idea that it had spiked to roughly 7 feet. We had no business being out there and we are 100% aware of that. We had only been paddling for a few months at the time but we had a friend with us who paddled that river many, many times and we felt okay putting on. We quickly realized we had made a huge mistake and we do recognize that the poor decisions continued one after another. We got really lucky and this situation really shook us, thankfully. Since then, we have grown significantly as boaters, have taken swift water rescue as well as an additional safety course. I have a pretty solid roll and am working on improving my on side as well as an off-side and back deck roll. My husband is a freaking beast on the water and can pretty much roll up in 99% of situations and fuckery and is known for being super supportive and reliable with rescues on the water. We regularly practice T-rescues, reading water, catching eddies, ferrying and communication about what moves to make. We definitely screwed up royally starting out, we know we are super lucky, and we worked hard to redeem ourselves and ensure that nothing like this happens again.
@@traceygreen9273 Sorry about it... But you guys aren't the pros not that you think you are... Not in one years time. In ten years. Yeah maybe. Don't try to over compensate for the embarrassing video.
Pretty sure you can't learn a combat roll in a pool....That would be a pool/flatwater roll. How did you arrive at a 2 week time limit? Are you sure that is long enough?
Lol, they don't all look like poo water. I prefer to think of them as chocolate milk :) Some always look like this but many are crystal clear most of the time. But when they are flooding, yeah they all pretty much look like this cause everything is getting stirred up.
Normally the banks of a river can be a safe place to swim to but the chattahoochee can rise like 10 feet when the dam releases and the water will filter through branches making the edges of the river more dangerous than the the middle
This is section 3, way above the dam, we got a lot of crazy rain to spike the level. But you are right, the edges were way more dangerous than the middle.
Geez that was difficult to watch. I went through a bad (fishing) kayak situation a few weeks back and it put the fear in me. I had to get hauled out of the water.
@@lusciouslunk @toekneegreen37 I live in the mountains in a town that's famous for crazy winds. I was on the lake in town, perfect day, in an Ascend H10 fishing kayak. In the span of a couple minutes the wind kicked up like crazy, white caps on the water, two foot swells. I got caught in a situation where I was paddling in place, into the wind, so I didn't get smashed against a rock levee. I was taking on water, but I couldn't stop paddling to bail. I couldn't head towards the marina, that would have put the wind at my side and I would have either flipped or quickly filled with water. The other direction was a dam overflow, couldn't go that way if I wanted to either. After _many_ minutes of treading water, someone from the marina came out and asked if I needed help. I asked for a tow, but that made things worse. I took on a ton more water. The kayak ended up sinking (not actually sinking, it'll go just under the surface and suspend) out from under me. The water was cold (mountain runoff) and the minute or so I was in the water completely took my energy. They had to manhandle me into the boat. I got a little beat up from that and was very sore the next week or so. By the time I had recovered enough to get the kayak back to my car, it was a perfect day again. I'd been in worse before, but that time I had my other kayak, a sit on top with scuppers. That one handles the wind here much better when it kicks up like that. I didn't use the H10 again for weeks after. Today was the first time I took it back out.
I was a trainee raft guide in Haiming, Austria 1996. We were encouraged to witness as many bad situations as possible. Our instructors would purposefully get us stuck in waves, take our paddles. Take our flip lines. One time i witnessed my friend Andrew get sucked into a hole and he didn’t resurface. I’ll never forget that feeling of seeing him go and because of the river flow we were getting further and further away from him. You feel utterly useless so i REALLY felt for you when you were on that island. *Andrew resurfaced 45seconds later 😅
@@chris082681yes, we both did. I'm the wife in this video and we learned so much from the many, many mistakes made. We've taken some classes, updated gear, and we both have a solid on-side roll. My husband can roll just about anything in just about any situation and I'm working on my off-side and back deck roll.
There's high water, then there's flood stage. I used to run flood stage in my 20s and 30s when I thought I was invincible. Last time I did the same thing happened. Started with 4 people on Wilsons after 6 days of rain and only I made it down. 2 lost boats, six broken ribs, and a water rescue so I don't run it that high anymore
Holy smokes! I can imagine Wilson's at fluid stage would be insane. I've only run that once at 0 feet. It's an awesome river, just a long drive, 3 and a half hours.
I was swimming at a local swimming hole, and stepped off into a deep spot with a little white water and was getting pushed underneath the riverbank and willow roots, i tried fighting my way out, and got to the point where my face was the only thing above water, and i was so wore out, so YELLED for help!!! 2 guys and my brother came an pulled me out, it was embarrassing because most the spots were only about waist deep, but when i realized i was stuck it felt like my heart stopped and my stomach turned.
wow. im a long time paddler from northern california love the honest video. glad you all made it. homie get your ass on some flat water and learn to control your egdes, like for example paddle fast set an egde( start a turn) , get your paddle vertical on the inside of the turn use your opposite or outside knee to tune the angle and paddle in circles holding your turn by using your edge. do this both wAYS then in reverse until you can do it all day . its basic but you will gain the control to help catch all those eddies you missed. please dont take this to be judgy i used to charge the shit out of rivers with no technique and i mean that. you either back up and pay your dues or just keep pushing your luck.. for me a class in durango on slalom changed everything , i went from class 3 paddler charging class5 to a reasonably good boater over a few years.just step back, lay the groundwork then get out there and run it! truly not judging just what i would say to a friend and i consider all who love the river a friend. peace like a river homie.
I was going to do a lecture comment like the rest.... But then I remembered in May of 1974 I put my Ted Williams raft i bought from Sears into the upper copper River in Alaska and went out with the ice.... Also lucky to be alive 😊
W in the heck did he find your kayaks? I've done the flint twice at flood stage. It wasn't this big but it is unnerving when you cant see over the next wave. We had one concussion, i lost iphone and 3 over adrenalined kayakers
lol, yeah that sounds about right! The kayaks got stuck and Charlie picked them up and towed them on his sit on top Torrent. Definitely the hero of this story.
Ideally I'd keep the boat and paddle after a swim. Usually the boat will go off to an eddy. Paddles however, tend to just keep going, way harder to get.
This river looks awesome. I’d love to go. I go kayaking every week after work if I get off in time. I love it, but the Indiana white river is nothing like this. It’s way more calm and peaceful. It still flows but not like this lol
All 3 of us have improved a great deal since this video and now would have no trouble at this level. But yeah I don't think Indiana has the elevation change needed lol (I grew up in Illinois)
Completely irresponsible for people with such low skills to be paddling at high water. That was only Class II - III whitewater. Very little maneuvering required; simply stay in the middle, ride the waves and stay out of the trees. At least one paddler/swimmer with no concept of self rescue or how to assist a rescuer made it more dangerous than necessary. I guess this can be seen as a cautionary tale and may save other unskilled/inexperienced paddlers from trying something similar.
Hate to ruin your moment but that wasn't class 3. That's ok though, it's hard to read a river based on GoPro footage. Oh, and just so you know, for the Hooch at that level, you want to generally stay river left, not middle.
the fact that you keep replying to these things with misinformation about the class shows me that you have made no effort to get educated. Kayaking relies on community & I'm glad you survived this, but if you are making zero effort to learn about how to do this safely I really hope I don't see you on the water
@@annaharrison7403 it was definitely class III - IV at this level and we are aware of that. I'm not really sure what the confusion is. We've since taken 2 SWR classes and have grown significantly. In fact, in our area, we are known leading pfds down our local class III-IV runs because we are solid boaters and safety conscious. Kayaking does rely heavily on community, which is why we've worked so hard on becoming better boaters who practice safety techniques frequently. I'm not sure why you are refusing to acknowledge the agreement that we know we were in over our heads. I certainly agree that I hope you don't see us on the river because you're giving off such mean girl vibes and that's an energy I don't want. I'm a solid boater, my husband is better than me and I'd guess we're both likely well above your skill level as well as cognitive and intellectual ability.
Yeah, my friends in the Torrent ended up making it all the way to the end. Because when he came out he just got right back in. My roll is way better now though.
Im new to kayaking and only go one one specific river that i am fairly familiar with. During spring and summer there are some spots that get to a maximum of to my neck while a majority of it is only about thigh high. If i cant see the bottom in spots i normally should, i dont go on it with Canoe or Kayak. Ive had the Canoe for about 5 maybe 6 years now but the Kayak only about 3 weeks now. I guess the river i go on is a class two, but i'm not 100% up to snuff on the classifications yet. Ive read that any amount of flow automatically makes it a class two. I dont use a skirt on mine and it is sit inside. I do want to get a skirt for it but have been thinking about waiting till i get a better Kayak. Right now, i wouldnt even think about going on a river such as in the video. Maybe one day, but at this point in time absolutely not. I do know a lot about what to watch for when boating and a good bit of what not to do. I know that the spots where half the river is calm then a few spots in the same area where it is whitewater means there is a boulder or some other obstruction there i can get hung up on, turned sideways and dumped. I know about strainers and to avoid them. I know go downstream feet first. I even have learned how to get into my Kayak when i cant push against the ground to get in. Im by far not an expert and i know this but i always try to learn more from more experienced users. I know basics of safety, life vests, posture in the Kayak, and what to do if i flip my Kayak. That being said, i do know of some people who have after flipping on open water used another Kayakers Kayak to empty much of the water out of their Kayak. I wouldnt attempt it yet and would rather swim my Kayak to shore (if i had to on the river i float down). I seen several mistakes even in the first few minutes that could have been avoided. I keep on my Kayak a tether that has two quick clips on either end that i can quickly clip onto someone elses Kayak if they go over and can have full ability to paddle. I wouldnt use that tactic on the river in the video as that would be more dangerous, but would still have been helpful when he was trying to get Tracys boat to shore. Can always unclip from it if there is impending danger ahead. I would have set up various meeting points along the route on shore (you know, like a school fire drill) so it wasnt like ending up being a needle in a haystack.
You are right, so many mistakes were made. I now have a tether inside my PFD. You don't want to be tethered to a boat in rapids, especially with it full of water. I should have just followed till it came to a more calm section of the river. I think that was part of the problem, my focus should have been in the rapids 100%, not on getting the boat.
I've put in on this at 8ft and by the time we hit take out about 25 minutes later it was 11 ft. Fun river at those flows if you know how to navigate the holes and have bomb proof roll.
When I saw the guy paddling the sit on top at flood stage, I knew there was going to be trouble. Glad everyone made it out ok. I feel your pain! This outing reminds me of a similar event when I started kayaking. I had just began whitewater kayaking at the end of the previous summer. It was early spring and got talked into running a 4+ (my 1st 4+) on the Kern in CA at flood stage at 4000+ CFS. My buddies were better paddlers than me and shouldn't have egged me on, particularly since my roll wasn't bomber, but the blame lies solely with me because I made the decision to go. Fairly soon in the run, I flipped in a hole at the top of 4+, which at that level, ran into a 4. I bailed and lost my kayak and paddle and was exerting a ton of energy trying to make it to the side before the long 4 ahead. I was able to get there by grabbing onto a branch with all my strength, like you did, and I got to shore. Honestly, if I hadn't made it to shore then, I don't know what I would have done, because I had no energy left. I didn't run another river at flood stage for 2 more years and by then I had my offside and hands roll down. Definitely learned a tough beginners lesson. My buddies did recover my kayak and paddle and finished the run.
Ironically the guy in the sit on top was the only one to make it down and rescued both of our boats! Sounds like you dodged a near disaster and it helped you grow.
This is a series of bad decisions. I've been paddling for 23 years. Let me share with you some things that I've learned. It's O.K. to turn around and go home, or go to an easier river because plan A was too high. Flood stage adds the danger of the side of the river is all up in the trees, but you certainly know that now! When I do a "Step up" run, I make sure that I'm one of the weaker paddlers in the group. I want people who are familiar with the run at the current flow and I want people who act quickly and know how to rescue. I've been invited on trips that I thought might turn into a shit show and turned down the invitation. I do my best to avoid shit shows. I will admit that it's been a while, but I have been the shit show more than once. Learn how to swim using your paddle, instead of swimming one handed while dragging it. It makes a world of difference. If I ever left my wife like that, I'd be sleeping with the dog indefinitely! Be safe out there!
Last February, I was on a guided trip in Ecuador. We drove to the take out and the level looked fine. When we got to the put in, our guide said it looked a little juicy, but O.K. By the time we got geared up and took off the river had come up about 2 feet. We ran the first set of rapids and walked out. That first set of rapids was very exciting!
@@toekneegreen37 well I hope she learned some things on that day and Is doing much better! She should have never been by herself though IMO Happy weekend!
Glad everyone is ok! This was close to ending very differently. Hopefully, new boaters can learn several things from this video. Never get on a flooded river unless you and your team have solid rescue skills, and a roll. Always have the inexperienced boater(s) in the middle of the group, NEVER lead a swimmer into entanglement hazards while trying to get them out of the water. (She was incredibly lucky not to have gotten trapped on a strainer), If a member of your group disappears like she did, you DO NOT continue down the river; she could have easily been trapped with no one there to help and it is incredibly dangerous to continue down a flooded river solo, (as later seen in the video). People over boats, too much in this video was on saving the boat. Get the swimmer(s) out safely, then your team gets out, regroup, and go to plan B. I always appreciate people posting videos like this so others can learn and hopefully stay safe on the river.
Yep, this is how people die by keep rolling the dice without enough forethought, planning and rescue
Couldn't believe he took her into that entangled bank. Literally tried to kill her. Every decision made in this video was wrong
Probably one of the most irresponsible boating videos I have ever seen. These folks had no business whatsoever on this river.
this is a great comment. I'd add a few more things, but this sums it up enough.
You are very right and I appreciate it. We learned so much that day!
A literal “what not to do” video from start finish. Excellent example of not knowing what you don’t know when beginning new adventures. The outcome is nothing short of a miracle. Thanks for posting. Glad you all made it!
Exactly.
when the water is brown, i don't go near it. lost 2 friends drowning at 15 years old in 1999 in a river. We jumped in it just for fun. I'm the only survivor.
Flooded river and the video starts with them in the strainers. Not smart.
@@CanadianHorseFacedamn, I'm so sorry for your loss!
It took 4 days to find the bodies of my friends, they were lost in the current. Our phone at home was ringing non stop, my mom decided to unplug the line so we can have a bit of peace.
Great video of what not to do. Seriously thanks for sharing. We all make poor choices, posting this video is a great reminder of a river that is normally in our skillset that can morph into a much more difficult beast.
So true
For those of us that are absolute novices in kayaking - what exactly are the "not to do"s here? Asking genuinely hoping to learn.
Running any river in a high flood stage is generally not a good call for a novice. Especially when the normal bank is submerged, and it is flowing in trees like this. Very easy to get tangled in a strainer. When the water is flowing at levels like this there can be whole trees floating down the river to contend with as well. Also, going with a larger more experienced group is a good idea too. This no kind of water for a sit on top or open kayak either. Keep that stuff on Class II rapids and under. Finally, keep an eye on the weather. River conditions can change fast with heavy downpours. You might not even be getting rained on while the river is quickly rising beneath you. All this advice is from a fellow novice who also got in over his head, lol.
For me, as a beginer, si very obvius i don't have to paddle in a river like that. They were very luky ti ger out alive of the river.
THE FORCE OF THE WATER IS HUGE AND UNBELIEVABLE, ESPECIALLY IF THERE ARE OBSTACLES SUCH AS BRANCHES IN THE PATH
I am glad everyone is ok. I appreciate you exposing yourself to the internet's harsh scrutiny to let others learn from your mistake. We all need to keep safety in mind. Thank you!
That's what I was thinking. Definitely not a how to do things right kind of day! Thank you for not chewing me up and spitting me out. I assume those people think I'm proud of this day or something maybe.
I think it says a lot about you. You made an unintentional mistake and shared it with others so they can see the perspective and learn from your mistakes. Truly someone I want in my corner.
@@toekneegreen37 I'm thinking this is providing a valuable service to others to warn them about what not to get into and how badly things can go if you underestimate a high, rapid river.
@@kevin179887thank you for understanding that. I'm the wife in this video. We made so many stupid mistakes and got very, very lucky. We're still paddling all the time but😂have since taken swift water rescue and another rescue class, have worked hard to enhance our skills and practice safety techniques frequently. My husband has about a 99% success rate with on-side, off-side, back deck and hand rolls. He's done Tallulah and cheoah because he's got the skills. I've got about a 90% success rate with my on-side roll and am taking private instruction to help towards other rolls. I won't do anything bigger than the Ocoee until I have more skills in my wheelhouse.
@@traceygreen9273 Awesome, you two are great!
Man, this brings back some painful memories. I’m glad you guys are all ok. We were less than a half mile into our run in 2016 when things went as bad as possible. One of my best friends got in an awful position and was unable to surface on his own. We were in no position to start a rescue mission in time, as he was at the rear of the pack. His kayak caught up to us, and we didn’t see him. It wasn’t until the next day when he was recovered. Even though the other 6 of us didn’t see it happen, we all live with nightmares of what we pictured happened. I was an avid kayaker for a decade up until that point. Hitting the water every weekend. I gave it up that very day. Strictly just lazy river fishing floats for me. You don’t know what true danger is until you’re in it, and I don’t care to find out. Keep your heads on straight, and don’t take any shortcuts when it comes to safety. RIP Lee-Boy.
Oh man I'm sorry. We were definitely lucky.
There's nothing wrong with lazy river fishing. Sorry to hear about your friend.
Crashing a motorcycle made me more risk averse on my weekend warrior activities; although I did Brazilian jiu jitsu until I had to do my first full hip replacement.
Did he hsve a life jacket on or was it so strong it over powered it
@@mikeguerrero5311it doesn’t really matter m8.
Sorry for your loss brother
@@JacobLush-lq1hmIt would be nice to know if he was wearing a life jacket.
Thanks for posting this. Your breathing when you capsized (and the rest of the way) tells the entire story. Things can go very wrong very quickly when rivers are at flood stage and sometimes it is best to leave the launching boat ramp and go grab a coffee instead. The water sets the rules. Always. Man, glad y'all are OK. That could have ended very differently.
Yep, getting some pizza would have definitely been the better day! But on the plus side, we lived and learned a lot and have become much smarter boaters.
Heart pounding. I too am glad you shared this. It's a good reminder to think ahead and be prepared. No flooded rivers for me, thanks.
We have since improved and learned our lessons. If I do this river again at this level, it would be a much more boring video... Which I prefer lol
Thank you for posting this video, there is a wealth of knowledge to be learned from mistakes, and its nice if people can learn from others mistakes without all the trauma of the experience. To all the snarky commenters, what good is it to shame a person for a fault they already admitted and are now remedying? It's literally the most humble way to handle the situation and teach others.
I think they think this is a how to have fun video and not how quickly things can go from bad to worse. Especially when you don't know any better.
@@pancakepillow thank you for your kindness. I'm the wife in this video and I can say that we've learned so much since this experience. It's hard to not feel embarrassed about this and some of the comments are hurtful, but I agree with my husband that leaving it up is the right move. We've even been featured on a Facebook group called Bad Whitewater Rafting Advice and are now being a bit crucified there 🙄
@@toekneegreen37 Everyone thinks they are bullet proof until shit goes south, most people wouldn't be brave enough to post their failure to help others just because their ego's are too fragile.
@@pancakepillow thank you 💚
@traceygreen9273 people will always be dicks. Seriously though, thanks for sharing and being tough. We all have to start somewhere.
You started with one kayak and ended up with another. That's a crazy ride. Glad you all made it out of there.
For sure!
Hoollyyyy Shiiiit. I'm going to man's this a suggested watch for all my intro students. This is exactly what i tell them to watch out for when starting out. Know before you go. And if it's brown, turn around. By sharing this video, you have saved lives. So glad you all made it out alive.
Knowledge is power
ENTITLED. Thinking their entitlement and power extends over mother nature even.
@@marktalbott3835 entitled makes absolutely no sense in this context. How are they entitled? You have to be thinking of a different word
Maybe just more courage and sense of adventure than common sense.
Wildwood in the house
I knew this was going to be eventful within the first 2 seconds.
Tracey tells me I project my stupidity well
Coming from a total novice, as soon as I saw brown water in the trees with a sit on top kayak I knew it would not end well, lol.
Thanks for posting this very well may save somebodies life. You handled the comments with grace too. God bless.
Thank you, glad we all made it out ok.
I've seen this so many times out on the river. After paddling for 25 years, I'm of the opinion that class 3 water isn't for people who can't roll. If you don't have the discipline to get your roll down in flatwater first, then class 2, maybe whitewater kayaking isn't for you.
That wasn't class 3, but the main problem was it was so much higher than what we actually thought it was.
@@toekneegreen37 It is class III at those levels, as defined by the American Whitewater page. I'd recommend looking up the American Whitewater page before going on ANY whitewater run. Even if you thought that the river was at 4 feet, AW says ">4 = High water, additional skill required (III/IV), not good for beginners."
Please learn basic river safety and the fundamentals like looking up gauges before paddling. This could have easily been fatal. This is a high-risk sport, and should be treated that way. You put yourselves at risk, but you also put the entire sport at risk of being banned from specific rivers. Not to mention the stress and trauma you put on the S&R folks who have to rescue or recover you.
@@toekneegreen37 Not class III? At a lower level, yes. Glad everyone ended up okay, flooded rivers are a different beast. No reflection on you but the Georgia Canoe Association offers excellent whitewater instruction, including river rescue.
@@annaharrison7403 So, as the wife in this video, I can agree that it was an epic shit show and we were, in fact, clueless. We were told by the outfitter that it was running roughly 4 feet and that level was appropriate for our skill level. We had no idea that it had spiked to roughly 7 feet. We had no business being out there and we are 100% aware of that. We had only been paddling for a few months at the time but we had a friend with us who paddled that river many, many times and we felt okay putting on. We quickly realized we had made a huge mistake and we do recognize that the poor decisions continued one after another. We got really lucky and this situation really shook us, thankfully. Since then, we have grown significantly as boaters, have taken swift water rescue as well as an additional safety course. I have a pretty solid roll and am working on improving my on side as well as an off-side and back deck roll. My husband is a freaking beast on the water and can pretty much roll up in 99% of situations and fuckery and is known for being super supportive and reliable with rescues on the water. We regularly practice T-rescues, reading water, catching eddies, ferrying and communication about what moves to make.
We definitely screwed up royally starting out, we know we are super lucky, and we worked hard to redeem ourselves and ensure that nothing like this happens again.
@@stevethomas760 we have since taken several safety classes, upgraded gear, both of us have a roll, my husband can roll up in just about any situation between his on-side, off-side, back deck, and hand roll. I'm solid with my on-side and am taking classes for other rolls in order to increase safety for myself and others.
We bought a brand new 18 ft aluminum Canoe in the spring of 74 ... one month later wrapped it around a boulder in West Virginia. This Video is very exciting on that exact same level. Right up there with our 400 foot destroyer going under the sea in the F5. Like the song says, " Sometimes water gets rough..."
Yes it does!
Never ever swim towards the shore when there are trees and branches in this strong current, that was a really bad decision to be hounest. Once you get stuck in these branches, the current will pull you down and you will drown. Never ever try to touch the bottom with your legs, just keep floating as flat as possible until you reach a calmer part of the river or an island without driftwood.
Glad you all made it, this is a video with some valuable lessons. Cheers from the Netherlands.
You are exactly right.
Very easy to be critical of this. I'm shocked that this even happened. Definitely happy they all made it out alive and seriously hope they will take up some professional training with qualifed/experienced clubs/kayakers.
We learned more from this one day than anything else. And it has prompted us do more and get better and better. In fact later this month we will be getting our level 4 swift water rescue certification :)
@@toekneegreen37 yall should just rest comfortably on a couch somewhere. Leave the outdoors to others.
@@taitfreeman9421So, as the wife in this video, I can agree that it was an epic shit show and we were, in fact, clueless. We were told by the outfitter that it was running roughly 4 feet and that level was appropriate for our skill level. We had no idea that it had spiked to roughly 7 feet. We had no business being out there and we are 100% aware of that. We had only been paddling for a few months at the time but we had a friend with us who paddled that river many, many times and we felt okay putting on. We quickly realized we had made a huge mistake and we do recognize that the poor decisions continued one after another. We got really lucky and this situation really shook us, thankfully. Since then, we have grown significantly as boaters, have taken swift water rescue as well as an additional safety course. I have a pretty solid roll and am working on improving my on side as well as an off-side and back deck roll. My husband is a freaking beast on the water and can pretty much roll up in 99% of situations and fuckery and is known for being super supportive and reliable with rescues on the water. We regularly practice T-rescues, reading water, catching eddies, ferrying and communication about what moves to make.
We definitely screwed up royally starting out, we know we are super lucky, and we worked hard to redeem ourselves and ensure that nothing like this happens again.
We could take the video down based on rude, non-productive comments from assholes like you, but we feel that it might help others learn from our mistakes. My husband is now considered one of the best boaters in our area and, although I'm not nearly as skilled as he is, I can certainly hold my own. We are often inundated with requests to lead trips down some of our local runs and are known for being both skilled and kind.... except towards comments like this.
@@traceygreen9273sorry for all the rude comments. It’s really good of you both to post this video as there’s so much to learn from it. I have white water kayaked myself in the past and don’t anymore as it scares the life out of me! As a beginner kayaker we were once put on a very flooded Scottish river in the highlands. Very narrow and lots of features. I swam within the first 30 seconds I reckon, and a much more experienced paddler was able to offer the back of his boat. How he stayed upright in that volume and speed of water, I’ll never know. Had to be pulled out by my PDF as I used all my strength hanging on. And on another occasion, I witnessed a fellow kayaked get pinned upside down underwater over a waterfall, in such a position that she couldn’t pull her spray deck. I seriously thought we were going to loose her that day. I was a novice in both instances, being led by a much more experienced group. We definitely shouldn’t have been on that flooded river. The trip was over very quickly once all hell broke loose and there were swimmers everywhere. But the 2nd instance I think was fluke and poor luck. River kayaking still scares the hell out of me, but I admire anyone who has the love of it still. It’s amazing that your experience has lead you to learning as much as you can, rather than backing off. I think knowledge of water, whether you’re a kayaker or not, is invaluable. I did comment about the walking across the river on another comment, but can see this is old and you’ve posted this video for the benefit of others. Thanks again for sharing!
"Don't let go. Quit lettin' go!" Such noble advice!
I do my best lol
@@toekneegreen37 Glad you're all alive.
That exact thing happened to me on my first trip in a kayak. Took the roll class and friends took me to a river. They didn't expect it to be so high but said it will be fine. I think I got a half a mile and rolled couldn't get back up and bailed ended up on a rock in the middle of the river which turned into a rescue. After they dragged me to shore they said the rail trail is up this bank, walk to the take out almost three miles and left me on the bank with the boat and my gear. Started dragged the kayak and after about half way they had sent a ranger up the trail in a pick up to find me. Never got in a kayak again, was nearly my last day on Earth. Thanks ex buds!!
Holy cow, yeah things can go south quick. It took me months to learn how to roll, I didn't have a solid combat roll yet and shouldn't have been on the river at this level.
This "exact thing" wow, so we have two geniuses here, unbelievable humanity managed to get this far.
Glad they are you “ex” buds and not your current ones.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am glad you all made it, that was a very dangerous situation. I hope other kayakers will see this and be reminded of the power of whitewater and seek to learn how to keep themselves and others. You are doing a very good thing by sharing the dangers people should watch out for.
Thank you, that's kind of the idea. Don't do what we did!
Wow. Terrifying. Not to sound like an ahole, but did yall have your combat rolls down before this and just couldn't hit them in those conditions?
I apparently lost mine that day and Tracey didn't have one yet. But when we put on we thought it was just 4 feet, turns out is crested to nearly 7!!!
An accident waiting to happen, happened! Count thyself lucky...very lucky indeed! Years ago I used to give a talk called, "Levels of The Game" in which I described the importance of knowing your level of technical competence and staying within that level. As I used to point out, most of us came up through an educational system that told us to "take chances" and "risk being wrong." While that works well most of the time in the academic world in the world of nature every test is pass/fail no make up allowed! And the first test you fail may be the last test you ever take!
We thought we did that, talked to the people that know the river best and knew us. However none of us realized the river was about to shoot up . But definitely agree that this was above our post grade back then.
@@toekneegreen37 The Catch 22 of staying within your level of competence is that you don't have enough experience to realistically evaluate the level of expertise called for. Based upon the footage in your video most of the conditions you encountered were Class 2 or less. The danger was largely limited to a river overflowing its banks thus presenting numerous potentially dangerous "strainers" which you repeatedly appeared to underestimate the danger of. I admire your willingness to share your misadventure with others in hopes of helping them appreciate the potential consequences of poor decision making. But in the future it would be wise for you to double the danger rating and cut by 75% your guess as to how capable you are meeting the challenge. I've been a licensed Maine Guide for more than 40 years and a Coast Guard licensed boat captain for 30 and that's the formula I've used successfully for myself for all those years.
Good idea! These days I do bigger water than this, and hopefully am a better judge of what I can handle. I trust the people I paddle with and we do a much better job of keeping each other safe!
I'm glad everyone is ok and thank you for posting this. All around this was a messed up group of paddlers who never should have been on this river! Many will and can learn from this video.
I sure hope so :)
Thank you for sharing your video. A friend and myself are just getting into kayaking. We did a small tour with class 1 and class 2 waves and on sit on kayaks. I came off on every rapid. I watched your video holding my breath the whole way! Thank you for sharing. It will definitely help those of us who are new to this sport but I never will ever paddle a river like that one..lol.. I'm thinking the lake is perfect for me :) Glad you are all ok. I was really worried watching it.
Yeah it was more than we could handle, but we've grown better since. Whitewater is addicting, do it every weekend!
Great video. There is no substitute for experience. I use to teach "Safety Afloat" to boy scout adults. I always started off each session asking how many people had had life threading experiences on water. amazingly there was almost 80% of people raising their hands. River at flood are always dangerous. We got on the Chattahoochee above Helen in our whitewater kayaks late one afternoon. As we came around a curve in the river we could see tree tops. We got out to scout. It was a large, double drop waterfall. There was no mention of this waterfall in the river guide book we had. We tethered our kayaks together and slowly started lowering them along the waterfall. Well, one kayak slid over into the river and filled with water. Quickly all of them were full of water. We spent an hour getting them all out and getting back on the river. It was beginning to get dark and it was hard to see the rocks in the river when we finally arrived at our takeout. After that, never got on a river I didn't know after noon. That was the second time I had taken out at dark. Saved my bacon several years later when my buddies wanted to get on a class V river, didn't know the water level, didn't know the river, I waited for them at the take out. Two walked out. One got chased by a bull and hung up on an electric fence, one had gone over a waterfall backwards and hurt his arm and cracked his helmet, and one made it to the take out. We got a motel that night. The next day went back in to get the kayaks that were left. A friendly farmer took us to the edge of the canyon at the back of his property where we hiked in and got the kayaks, and paddled them down the rest of the river to the take out.
Experience is the best teacher! Lessons leaned the hard way stick a little better. Chased by a bull lol... Sitting that one out was definitely the right move
I hope know better these days, but there were times when I can imagine if I ended up in the same bad situation I could have made some of the bad decisions shown here. This video is extremely educational for all of us, thank you very much for posting it.
Know much better now !)
Thank you for sharing. Glad everyone got out safely.
Me too!
Dam, I was panicking before you even started!
Lol, I probably should've panicked more and said skipping it.
Yeah exactly like as soon as you seen the water it's like what the hell are y'all doing and just wondering who thought that this was going to go well
wow. glad yall lived. i always wondered what this looks like at flood stage. it's very similar to the hooch below buford dam during a release (class 2-3 when each wave and bump is taken individually, but actually class 4 cause they aren't individual and it's continuous and class 5-5+ if someone swims and needs to get to shore). your video really shows how at flood stage the banks become strainers and it makes for that class 5 swim.
the hole you flipped in at 18:00 is first ledge of the rapid 3 ledges (second ledge isn't visible, and you got out on top of 3rd ledge). when the river is around 4-ish feet there's potential for a possibly terminal hole on river left, but it was washed out. you probably weren't gonna be able to paddle out even with a bomb proof roll. rolling up doesn't magically get you out of that low head dam kind of hole, and it's got enough power to loop you even if you can stabilize a surf. the technique is frantic paddling on the downstream side while side surfing to claw your way to the edge of the hole where water is flowing past. That's WAY easier to type than to actually do.
i teach beginners on this section (at normal levels), so i'm intimately familiar with the run. i bet this is actually more difficult at 4 feet because a lot of what I expected to see at the buck island and canoe eating rock section was so far underwater it was out of play. but also at that level if you swim, you aren't going full george of the jungle to get to land.
as for the recovery. commenters here underestimate the difficulty of getting back upstream. yeah, everything about that was as bad as it could be, but you can't just bippityboppitybloop your boat back upstream to pick someone up. "but he should have caught an edd"[batman slap] THERE ARE NO EDDIES! everything's underwater! for what it's worth if it comes up again, I like to swim in the middle of the river when i'm in the chocolate milk and look downstream for a better place to exit. pushing a capsized kayak is always gonna be a struggle; i like to bump it around so i'm downstream of it, facing upstream at it, with the upstream end of the sunk boat pointing towards the shore i'm trying to go to. put my bow into the sunk boat's cockpit and that lets me paddle with both hands (try it on the lake sometime). i use that method more than the rescue cowtail on my pfd. once again, easier to type than to do cause pushing a capsized creekboat in current is like stopping a ford f150 someone left in drive. also it's nice when everyone has practiced a boat over boat rescue and deepwater reentry. probably wouldn't have been successful here, but having options is good and swimming an empty boat in is more realistic.
anyone worth paddling with has been in a situation where they realized they made a critical oopsie. glad yall kept at it.
We definitely shouldn't have been on the water at this time but we learned from our mistakes and took some safety classes and are much better off for it. All your points are spot on, probably the best advice I've gotten from this video! Thank you very much.
@@toekneegreen37 It's not just about the numbers on the river gauge. You thought it was four and it turned out to be six or seven. But if I heard you right, even four was about twice what you usually ran it. That should have been cause for extreme caution right there, even under the BEST of conditions! The level didn't matter. The picture the river was presenting was all you really needed to make the proper decision. The SPEED and COLOR of the current and the greater WIDTH of the river with continuous foliage obliterating the banks + two inexperience decked boaters and one paddler on a sit-on-top = "GO HOME."
IMHO, these are the question EVERY boater should ask themselves before EVERY river trip:
1. Do I have the minimum skills necessary to run this river at this level?
2. Do at least one or two members of my party unquestionably have far greater skills than mine?
3. Do we have an adequate number of members within our party to render necessary aid to each other as may be required (Note: A pair of fully qualified Class V boaters taking on the Cataracts of the Kern at high water are about three boaters shy of a full deck!! And we see videos of this all the time.)
4. Who's the recognized group leader? Who are the weakest links in the chain and need the most support? Who are the designated sweep boaters who will allow NO other members of the group to drift behind the pack?
5. Is everyone adequately equipped with protective and rescue equipment? For those not experienced in swift water rescue, do they understand that if an emergency occurs, their first order of business is to paddle to safety and/or continue in such fashion that they do not risk making the situation worse.
The most important of these questions and answers are 2 thru 5. You can step up in class and take on new white water risks if you are adequately supported. Questions 2 thru 5, however, are particularly critical if YOU the person helping others take that step up. Five more beginners in the above video, however, would have merely resulted in more shrapnel in the hand grenade.
take a swift water rescue course, keeping toes up, and downriver, can also save your life.
We have taken 2 so far with plans to take more. Definitely worth it!
step one, get side to side with the capsized boat.
step two, Cockpit facing you pull sideways and push back of boat down (float bags are stored here).
step three, Once you push down pull front across boat emptying it of water and slide to other side.
step four, wayyy lighter to tow to shore.
Very true
Incredible video, thank you for sharing. Me and my family bought a couple of inflatable paddle boards we have taken down the Hooch a couple of times during low water, from buford dam to settles bridge. We flipped last time as 20 mile rock/rescue rock, so ive been watching videos to learn more about hoe to stay safe. This was really helpful and we definitely wont be on the ruver during a water release! Glad yall were okay
This is a good ways upriver, but it's a good idea to know when water is being released, either from the dam or the sky
Wow. Glad you had the camera batteries charged before this one. Thanks for sharing.
You are very welcome
Brown water would be an indicator of later trouser colour 😁
Lol
Never knew how much that muddy water meant to me.
Remind never to rob a bank with this guy......the alrm went off and he left tracy standing in the street with money 😂 "hoping tracy got to shore" was priceless.....as if that somehow makes it ok to ditch your partner in a river rapid to drown.
Are you insulting my bank robbing skills?
Man, i live about a mile from lake seminole which is the southern most point of the hooch. Its about 200 yards wide and several holes 40+ feet deep and slow as molasses. Its unreal, the contrast between here and there. I kayak when i go hunting, 1.5 miles down and then 1.5 miles back up river.
Man im glad you all made it out of that river.
Definitely no going back up river for us lol. It's not normally that high though.
Lucky break. Great video. Glad you guys made it out!
Very lucky, could have been so much worse.
Ummm....isnt getting back in the kayak one of the first drills before going downriver? Also as a one-time-only rafter we backpaddled into most of the big stuff i guess to increase maneuver time.
Also i notice you are overreaching. Paddle much closer ahead when you need power, your arms are too weak reaching way out. Just go slightly ahead of straight down and haul back to your body. Water a bit deeper down is also a lot more tractiony
Getting back into a boat that's full of water in the middle of a flooded river is not something anyone does. Rolling up after getting flipped, yes that's a thing. My till at the time was better than 50/50 but 0 that day apparently lol
You have the most power from your feet to your knees. You don't pull with your arms you twist with your hips. You get very little power with the paddle down deep or past your hips.
I’m so glad you are all OK! And thank you for posting a video of this frightful adventure. you show guts fighting through it and also fighting through the stupid troll comments that are sprinkled throughout here
Thank you! The trolls seem to grow in number lol.
Thank you! I'm the wife in this video. People can be so freaking hateful and some of the comments are just downright mean. We've been fortunate enough to survive this experience and have grown significantly since this.
I watched this start to end. I’m glad it turned out ok. Last time I swam was in the Arkansas River in Browns Canyon. Something you never forget. Part of the sport that you need to be trained and prepared for.
This video is a great training video. Thanks for sharing.
Yep, we learned a lot from this. A lot of what not to do for sure.
@@toekneegreen37 I’m from Colorado and more less a beginner. Most rivers around here go from class 1-4 it seems like. Having a friend around is a something special. Loosing your boat around here seems like a normal thing. There are lost and found Facebook pages for lost paddles and boats. As a beginner it’s a hard pill to swallow. I saw a video earlier today of a hydraulic with pieces of an orange boat in it. These rivers are powerful and unforgiving. Just a reminder that I need to stay in my lane. Hopefully I won’t have to put out an ad asking if anyone has seen my boat.
Ive run this at 7'2" and its not bad, there are a few holes to stay out of, and trees, and if like me you can not roll, do not go for your boat go for the bank. Your boat will be highway 52 for pick up.
You are absolutely right.
Little problems can become big, when you’re out on the water. Looked like your kayak got stuck in a hydraulic, I’m glad you didn’t get stuck. I’m happy everyone made it out safe! Thanks for sharing
Thank you for watching! You are correct, that was the rapid First Ledge. We were not prepared for what the water had to offer us that day.
17:59 Is that a lowhead dam?
No it's the rapid called First Ledge. Just a hole, or hydrologic. No low head dams on this section thankfully!
😮😱👀 Holy Crap! that's beyond extreme kayaking. Thank god you all survived
Us too!
I'm glad that you guys were okay, but so many things went wrong here. Before you get back on the river, you need a new paddle, learn how to roll in a combat situation, and especially take swiftwater rescue to learn how to safely and efficiently rescue somebody and their gear, and how to swim when in a rapid
100% agree. I'm the wife in this video. We made so many stupid mistakes and got very, very lucky. We're still paddling all the time but have since taken swift water rescue and another rescue class, have worked hard to enhance our skills and practice safety techniques frequently. My husband has about a 99% success rate with on-side, off-side, back deck and hand rolls. He's done Tallulah and cheoah because he's got the skills. I've got about a 90% success rate with my on-side roll and am taking private instruction to help towards other rolls. I won't do anything bigger than the Ocoee until I have more skills in my wheelhouse. We learned a lot from this experience. And we have spent an absolute fortune on new paddles, better gear, new boats, and some lessons.
Yep, that's the best thing that came out of this day. Check on all of those things:)
Your boat (purple) looks like a tough boat to roll for a beginner. The straight vertical sides can make it tough and sometimes your roll wil “stall” for lack of a better word.
@@timmckennie4276 yeah, this was when I was really new to the sport. I've since learned to roll this boat as well as others. The wavesport was actually easier than my half slice.
@@traceygreen9273 That's great that you guys have improved your skills and gotten better gear. Again, I'm glad y'all are okay. Hope to see you on the river.
@6:05 when you look back at Tracy, that's the moment after which it's pretty much everybody for themselves. You are REALLY LUCKY (kayaker for 49 years).
Definitely lucky 😁
Much thanks for posting this; it's a genuine, selfless public service. I will share this with a number of friends (and I have subscribed). I read through all the comments as well. I'm very glad that you all survived that day and have since proactively learned much! Pardon this question: you mentioned that Charlie's run was smoother because he was on the Torrent. I'm an old fart that has paddled much my whole life, but never significant whitewater. I don't YET know how to roll, but am eager to nail it. In the meanwhile, I'm seriously considering buying a sit-on-top whitewater boat. (I've looked at the Torrent, but lean much more towards the Fluid "Do it Now"). Like many, in the past a sit-on-top was out of the question for me. But being 63 and as of yet not having rolls down, and the only local whitewater being a relatively short run (in and out, over and over) of new artificial features in the local river, not having to trouble with a skirt is attractive. How does Charlie like his Torrent, and is he still paddling it? By the way, I love floodwaters and have long paddled them often, mainly because of the backwaters that open up.
He has since gotten a sit in kayak. He had paddled the Torrent on Class 2 and light Class 3 for years and loved it . His run was much another probably because he had more experience parking than we did. He got flipped out a couple times, hit in the head by the boat a couple times but managed to stay with it and çrawl back in. His wife and kids will take the Torrents out. They are really stable and great boats. I've rolled his in flat water but it is a beast to roll, not sure if I could do it in current.
That was intense, I love to kayak, and I thought about going down White River in Indiana when it floods, but after seeing this, I don't think I'll try it. There's been several people killed trying to go down it while flooded .
I don't recommend without the appropriate knowledge and skill, neither of which I had at the time.
Thank you for posting this!
I've gotten complacent paddling after watching this.
You are very welcome, glad you got something out of it!
@@toekneegreen37 Yes, but mainly when I see the Chattahoochee moving that fast, don't even unload the kayaks. Go home or grab breakfast with your friends and then go home. 🤣
Excellent brother… Fluk I had tears in my eyes. Glad you are all okay.. god bless from ca dude.
Thank you very much :) God bless you too!
I have a river near me called the pudding that gets like this during the winter. During the summer months it is nothing but a 1ft deep creek. Very good video. Scary to watch at times.
Still makes my heart skip a beat!
I been on that river swong off rope swings on the island over Cochran Schulz
Sweet, we have a couple rope swings up in the mountains here.
These lines in the video description are something to learn from as well: "Well, Charlie was able to make it all the way and even saved our boats! He's our hero!" Yikes. I'm sure you'd agree now that there are no heroes from this paddling day and that 'people over gear/boats' is the way to go. You're all fortunate to survive this one. Thanks for your honesty in your follow-up comments here in the chat. It's so clear that you used this as a major learning experience and took lots of steps after... Wishing you (and everyone here) the best for future fun and safe adventures on the water!!
Yes we did, we learned so much. Mostly of what not to do.
As a new kayaker (1 year) I'd never kayak on a river without an experienced rescuer, even a grade 2. I'm happy to kayak on flat water alone but I can roll and accept the possibility some random badness could happen. Even on flat water you can try to roll a couple of times and get a mouthful of water and it's not pleasant and certainly an eyeopener when you have to pull the deck. Glad you're okay!
Even having a perfect flatwater roll won't mean you'll be able to do it in rough water. But you are totally right. Really shouldn't have gone out that day.
Holy cow! Sooo many basic safety rules broken! A few: 1. Assess the river. It was up in the trees when you put in - many, many lethal strainers ahead! 2. Keep together! 3. When someone swims EVERYONE goes to assist! 4. Get to the swimmer - get your stern loop so they can grab it. 5. The swimmer should hang onto paddle, if they can. The swimmer should grab the stern loop and HANG ON, and KICK in time with the paddle strokes of the boater. WAIT until the water is really shallow - ankle deep- before trying to stand up. Hike to your boat. 6. After the swimmer is safe, get boats & gear. Get boats, gear & swimmer on the same side of the river! 7. DO NOT paddle away from a swimmer until they are safely on shore!
You don't know what you don't know. It was way above our knowledge and skill level at the time. We weren't trying to do it at this level, the last update of the river gauge had it at 4 feet, but turns out it was freezing to nearly 7! Not even the experts at the outfitters realized the true level. Smartest thing would have been to get back in the van and come back another day!
Everything worked out, we learned a lot, and now others can hopefully learn from my mistakes : )
This was very bad play calling, I’m sure y’all learned a life saving lesson for the future & this is a great video to express a few safety red flags! You led your wife directly into strainers. At higher water a branch is going to snap almost immediately against the weight of a person and the current. She would’ve been better off floating in the main flow until that river bank. The first eddy you missed after you realized you didn’t see her wouldve made this entire rescue story different. Panic happens n so does shit! But by golly please go by the rule of do you feel comfortable being the only rescuer and do you have someone to rescue you! If not, invite more boaters for your excursion. This was hard to watch my friends I’m glad y’all are okay! A really good educational video - thanks for putting it out for newer kayakers to learn from!
Oh yeah we learned so much and have since taken a few rescue classes. So many mistakes were made, hopefully others don't have to make the same mistakes we did.
Flood stage rivers are so difficult to deal with swim situations because they don't give you any downtime, the water is moving so fast. Combined w those damn thick bushes lining the sides that was rough
Yeah, water was easy above my pay grade. Even if there was an Eddie, I doubt I would have been able to get to it with my poor skills at the time.
@@huntermaxwell6406 yeah, we definitely got in way over our heads. We honestly thought it was 4 feet and the outfitter that shuttled us assured us of that. We had no business out there and we recognize that we got so, so lucky.
hell of a video glad it worked out the hooch is a mean one
She definitely was that day. Normally a pretty chill river though.
THANK YOU for posting this!
You are very welcome.
@@brittanycannon5280 thank you for not trying to crucify us for posting our epic mistakes. We have grown significantly since this and have gained tremendous experience.
glad you posted this as if for nothing else on a lesson on what not to do when going out on a river ,
always check the river levels , if your going to go on moving water with even a grade 2 rapid you should be either trained or be capable of self or group rescue and have the extra equipment with you to do so , at nearly 12.30 the caption "hoping she made it to shore" , you dont hope you check regardless of a kayak floating off down the river ,,
this was a complete sh@t show from the beggining and always remember kayaks etc can be replaced , you life carnt !!!
stay safe on the river glad your all ok
Glad you got something out of it :)
Glad everyone is ok, a lot of poor decisions made but hi d sight is 20-20. Hope you all learned a lot and aren't taking unnecessary risks like this anymore. It was like watching a horror movie, every time i was thinking "dont do that", "that" was done. Stay safe out there.
We have definitely improved since then. "That" was done way too much lol, you are very right about that.
You guys were out classed. Should have never been on the river. Glad everyone is safe and had on pfd's.
Yes we were!
So, as the wife in this video, I can agree that it was an epic shit show and we were, in fact, clueless. We were told by the outfitter that it was running roughly 4 feet and that level was appropriate for our skill level. We had no idea that it had spiked to roughly 7 feet. We had no business being out there and we are 100% aware of that. We had only been paddling for a few months at the time but we had a friend with us who paddled that river many, many times and we felt okay putting on. We quickly realized we had made a huge mistake and we do recognize that the poor decisions continued one after another. We got really lucky and this situation really shook us, thankfully. Since then, we have grown significantly as boaters, have taken swift water rescue as well as an additional safety course. I have a pretty solid roll and am working on improving my on side as well as an off-side and back deck roll. My husband is a freaking beast on the water and can pretty much roll up in 99% of situations and fuckery and is known for being super supportive and reliable with rescues on the water. We regularly practice T-rescues, reading water, catching eddies, ferrying and communication about what moves to make.
We definitely screwed up royally starting out, we know we are super lucky, and we worked hard to redeem ourselves and ensure that nothing like this happens again.
@@traceygreen9273 Sorry about it... But you guys aren't the pros not that you think you are... Not in one years time.
In ten years. Yeah maybe.
Don't try to over compensate for the embarrassing video.
You guys need to spend about 2 weeks in pools learning a combat roll. I've seen this end very sadly many times. Glad you ALL are alive.
Pretty sure you can't learn a combat roll in a pool....That would be a pool/flatwater roll. How did you arrive at a 2 week time limit? Are you sure that is long enough?
@@toekneegreen37 I dunno professor, you tell me.🤡
Good to see everyone safe. Question, all southern rivers look like poo?😅
Lol, they don't all look like poo water. I prefer to think of them as chocolate milk :) Some always look like this but many are crystal clear most of the time. But when they are flooding, yeah they all pretty much look like this cause everything is getting stirred up.
What brand was that red kayak?
That is a Torrent. It is a whitewater sit on top. Good for up to class 3 rapids.
@@toekneegreen37thank you - and glad everyone was Okay 🙏
Normally the banks of a river can be a safe place to swim to but the chattahoochee can rise like 10 feet when the dam releases and the water will filter through branches making the edges of the river more dangerous than the the middle
We found it very difficult to even get out in a boat ramp where it's supposed to be easy!!
This is section 3, way above the dam, we got a lot of crazy rain to spike the level. But you are right, the edges were way more dangerous than the middle.
Geez that was difficult to watch. I went through a bad (fishing) kayak situation a few weeks back and it put the fear in me. I had to get hauled out of the water.
What happened?
Do tell!
@@lusciouslunk @toekneegreen37 I live in the mountains in a town that's famous for crazy winds. I was on the lake in town, perfect day, in an Ascend H10 fishing kayak. In the span of a couple minutes the wind kicked up like crazy, white caps on the water, two foot swells. I got caught in a situation where I was paddling in place, into the wind, so I didn't get smashed against a rock levee. I was taking on water, but I couldn't stop paddling to bail. I couldn't head towards the marina, that would have put the wind at my side and I would have either flipped or quickly filled with water. The other direction was a dam overflow, couldn't go that way if I wanted to either.
After _many_ minutes of treading water, someone from the marina came out and asked if I needed help. I asked for a tow, but that made things worse. I took on a ton more water. The kayak ended up sinking (not actually sinking, it'll go just under the surface and suspend) out from under me. The water was cold (mountain runoff) and the minute or so I was in the water completely took my energy. They had to manhandle me into the boat. I got a little beat up from that and was very sore the next week or so.
By the time I had recovered enough to get the kayak back to my car, it was a perfect day again.
I'd been in worse before, but that time I had my other kayak, a sit on top with scuppers. That one handles the wind here much better when it kicks up like that. I didn't use the H10 again for weeks after. Today was the first time I took it back out.
Holy cow!
I was a trainee raft guide in Haiming, Austria 1996. We were encouraged to witness as many bad situations as possible. Our instructors would purposefully get us stuck in waves, take our paddles. Take our flip lines. One time i witnessed my friend Andrew get sucked into a hole and he didn’t resurface. I’ll never forget that feeling of seeing him go and because of the river flow we were getting further and further away from him. You feel utterly useless so i REALLY felt for you when you were on that island. *Andrew resurfaced 45seconds later 😅
They put raft through the ringer! Best to be prepared for anything though.
"Grab a branch or something?" I've cleaned Cl V. Glad you are alive. "Grab a branch or something?!?!" Take a whitewater rescue course. Good gravy.
We have since done Rescue Rodeo and Swiftwater L4 with the TVCC :)
@@toekneegreen37did you also buy a proper paddle?
@@chris082681yes, we both did. I'm the wife in this video and we learned so much from the many, many mistakes made. We've taken some classes, updated gear, and we both have a solid on-side roll. My husband can roll just about anything in just about any situation and I'm working on my off-side and back deck roll.
@@chris082681Yes, we have updated all of our gear as well as our skill level.
@@chris082681 yep
There's high water, then there's flood stage. I used to run flood stage in my 20s and 30s when I thought I was invincible. Last time I did the same thing happened. Started with 4 people on Wilsons after 6 days of rain and only I made it down. 2 lost boats, six broken ribs, and a water rescue so I don't run it that high anymore
Holy smokes! I can imagine Wilson's at fluid stage would be insane. I've only run that once at 0 feet. It's an awesome river, just a long drive, 3 and a half hours.
Do you ever see whirlpools? when your kayaking
All the time. But mostly they are fairly small and pretty fun to play in.
It is painful to see I experience on the river. To quote Crass. “The problems that you suffer from, are problems that you make.”
Glad you’re all safe.
Insightful
Isnt there deadly wildlife in there? Not to mention cant see in the waters at all
No deadly wildlife
I was swimming at a local swimming hole, and stepped off into a deep spot with a little white water and was getting pushed underneath the riverbank and willow roots, i tried fighting my way out, and got to the point where my face was the only thing above water, and i was so wore out, so YELLED for help!!! 2 guys and my brother came an pulled me out, it was embarrassing because most the spots were only about waist deep, but when i realized i was stuck it felt like my heart stopped and my stomach turned.
Holy smokes! Nothing to be ashamed of in calling out for help when you need it, it might have saved your life! Doesn't take deep water to drown.
That's terrifying! Entrapment doesn't take deep water to be fatal. I'm glad you called for help!
Glad you all made it
Me too 👍
wow. im a long time paddler from northern california love the honest video. glad you all made it. homie get your ass on some flat water and learn to control your egdes, like for example paddle fast set an egde( start a turn) , get your paddle vertical on the inside of the turn use your opposite or outside knee to tune the angle and paddle in circles holding your turn by using your edge. do this both wAYS then in reverse until you can do it all day . its basic but you will gain the control to help catch all those eddies you missed. please dont take this to be judgy i used to charge the shit out of rivers with no technique and i mean that. you either back up and pay your dues or just keep pushing your luck.. for me a class in durango on slalom changed everything , i went from class 3 paddler charging class5 to a reasonably good boater over a few years.just step back, lay the groundwork then get out there and run it! truly not judging just what i would say to a friend and i consider all who love the river a friend. peace like a river homie.
Thank you very much!
Glad y'all are alive and well. Stay safe
Will do our best!
When I teach "Safety Afloat" I always ask the participants if they have ever had a scary or near death experience on he water. You qualify.
This is a "less is more situation" right?
I just have one question. Why?
Fun?
I was going to do a lecture comment like the rest.... But then I remembered in May of 1974 I put my Ted Williams raft i bought from Sears into the upper copper River in Alaska and went out with the ice.... Also lucky to be alive 😊
Lol, most of us learn from experience, then forget how we learned apparently.
W in the heck did he find your kayaks? I've done the flint twice at flood stage. It wasn't this big but it is unnerving when you cant see over the next wave. We had one concussion, i lost iphone and 3 over adrenalined kayakers
lol, yeah that sounds about right! The kayaks got stuck and Charlie picked them up and towed them on his sit on top Torrent. Definitely the hero of this story.
so not a huge kayaker but why didn't you let go of your paddle?
Ideally I'd keep the boat and paddle after a swim. Usually the boat will go off to an eddy. Paddles however, tend to just keep going, way harder to get.
Cuz he needs it?
Why would you lead her into sweepers?
Wasn't the intention, there was a clear spot but couldn't make it. Definitely would do it totally different if we could redo it.
This river looks awesome. I’d love to go. I go kayaking every week after work if I get off in time. I love it, but the Indiana white river is nothing like this. It’s way more calm and peaceful. It still flows but not like this lol
All 3 of us have improved a great deal since this video and now would have no trouble at this level. But yeah I don't think Indiana has the elevation change needed lol (I grew up in Illinois)
@@toekneegreen37 where is this river at?
Completely irresponsible for people with such low skills to be paddling at high water. That was only Class II - III whitewater. Very little maneuvering required; simply stay in the middle, ride the waves and stay out of the trees. At least one paddler/swimmer with no concept of self rescue or how to assist a rescuer made it more dangerous than necessary. I guess this can be seen as a cautionary tale and may save other unskilled/inexperienced paddlers from trying something similar.
Hate to ruin your moment but that wasn't class 3. That's ok though, it's hard to read a river based on GoPro footage.
Oh, and just so you know, for the Hooch at that level, you want to generally stay river left, not middle.
@@toekneegreen37 It was class III-IV as defined by American Whitewater which is typically what people use if they know what they are doing, man
the fact that you keep replying to these things with misinformation about the class shows me that you have made no effort to get educated. Kayaking relies on community & I'm glad you survived this, but if you are making zero effort to learn about how to do this safely I really hope I don't see you on the water
@@annaharrison7403 it was definitely class III - IV at this level and we are aware of that. I'm not really sure what the confusion is. We've since taken 2 SWR classes and have grown significantly. In fact, in our area, we are known leading pfds down our local class III-IV runs because we are solid boaters and safety conscious. Kayaking does rely heavily on community, which is why we've worked so hard on becoming better boaters who practice safety techniques frequently. I'm not sure why you are refusing to acknowledge the agreement that we know we were in over our heads. I certainly agree that I hope you don't see us on the river because you're giving off such mean girl vibes and that's an energy I don't want. I'm a solid boater, my husband is better than me and I'd guess we're both likely well above your skill level as well as cognitive and intellectual ability.
@@toekneegreen37don’t even pay attention to this bozo, he probably typed that sitting on his couch
Wow, that was some crazy kayaking... glad everyone's ok.
It was quite a day!
This looks life-threatening based on your skills and the level of the river. Glad you made it out because it could have very easily ended differently.
You are totally right.
Fair play for posting this. Hopefully it will help educate future paddlers
Absolutely
why do people do this on such bad fast rapids/water? how is this fun?
It's super fun. I was not experienced enough to be on that river at that level at that time however.
This is why I love my packraft. If you go out, you just flip it and hop right back in.
Yeah, my friends in the Torrent ended up making it all the way to the end. Because when he came out he just got right back in. My roll is way better now though.
Im new to kayaking and only go one one specific river that i am fairly familiar with. During spring and summer there are some spots that get to a maximum of to my neck while a majority of it is only about thigh high. If i cant see the bottom in spots i normally should, i dont go on it with Canoe or Kayak. Ive had the Canoe for about 5 maybe 6 years now but the Kayak only about 3 weeks now. I guess the river i go on is a class two, but i'm not 100% up to snuff on the classifications yet. Ive read that any amount of flow automatically makes it a class two. I dont use a skirt on mine and it is sit inside. I do want to get a skirt for it but have been thinking about waiting till i get a better Kayak. Right now, i wouldnt even think about going on a river such as in the video. Maybe one day, but at this point in time absolutely not. I do know a lot about what to watch for when boating and a good bit of what not to do. I know that the spots where half the river is calm then a few spots in the same area where it is whitewater means there is a boulder or some other obstruction there i can get hung up on, turned sideways and dumped. I know about strainers and to avoid them. I know go downstream feet first. I even have learned how to get into my Kayak when i cant push against the ground to get in. Im by far not an expert and i know this but i always try to learn more from more experienced users. I know basics of safety, life vests, posture in the Kayak, and what to do if i flip my Kayak. That being said, i do know of some people who have after flipping on open water used another Kayakers Kayak to empty much of the water out of their Kayak. I wouldnt attempt it yet and would rather swim my Kayak to shore (if i had to on the river i float down). I seen several mistakes even in the first few minutes that could have been avoided. I keep on my Kayak a tether that has two quick clips on either end that i can quickly clip onto someone elses Kayak if they go over and can have full ability to paddle. I wouldnt use that tactic on the river in the video as that would be more dangerous, but would still have been helpful when he was trying to get Tracys boat to shore. Can always unclip from it if there is impending danger ahead. I would have set up various meeting points along the route on shore (you know, like a school fire drill) so it wasnt like ending up being a needle in a haystack.
You are right, so many mistakes were made. I now have a tether inside my PFD. You don't want to be tethered to a boat in rapids, especially with it full of water. I should have just followed till it came to a more calm section of the river.
I think that was part of the problem, my focus should have been in the rapids 100%, not on getting the boat.
That looks like my old Recon. One of my favorite boats until I lost too much weight. If it is I hope it treats you better next time.
I love this boat. Just sold it to one of my buddies, happy to see it getting more time on the water.
I've put in on this at 8ft and by the time we hit take out about 25 minutes later it was 11 ft. Fun river at those flows if you know how to navigate the holes and have bomb proof roll.
Yep, I've learned many lessons that day. I've improved a good bit since then I think :)
When I saw the guy paddling the sit on top at flood stage, I knew there was going to be trouble. Glad everyone made it out ok. I feel your pain! This outing reminds me of a similar event when I started kayaking. I had just began whitewater kayaking at the end of the previous summer. It was early spring and got talked into running a 4+ (my 1st 4+) on the Kern in CA at flood stage at 4000+ CFS. My buddies were better paddlers than me and shouldn't have egged me on, particularly since my roll wasn't bomber, but the blame lies solely with me because I made the decision to go. Fairly soon in the run, I flipped in a hole at the top of 4+, which at that level, ran into a 4. I bailed and lost my kayak and paddle and was exerting a ton of energy trying to make it to the side before the long 4 ahead. I was able to get there by grabbing onto a branch with all my strength, like you did, and I got to shore. Honestly, if I hadn't made it to shore then, I don't know what I would have done, because I had no energy left. I didn't run another river at flood stage for 2 more years and by then I had my offside and hands roll down. Definitely learned a tough beginners lesson. My buddies did recover my kayak and paddle and finished the run.
Ironically the guy in the sit on top was the only one to make it down and rescued both of our boats! Sounds like you dodged a near disaster and it helped you grow.
This is a series of bad decisions. I've been paddling for 23 years. Let me share with you some things that I've learned.
It's O.K. to turn around and go home, or go to an easier river because plan A was too high.
Flood stage adds the danger of the side of the river is all up in the trees, but you certainly know that now!
When I do a "Step up" run, I make sure that I'm one of the weaker paddlers in the group. I want people who are familiar with the run at the current flow and I want people who act quickly and know how to rescue.
I've been invited on trips that I thought might turn into a shit show and turned down the invitation. I do my best to avoid shit shows. I will admit that it's been a while, but I have been the shit show more than once.
Learn how to swim using your paddle, instead of swimming one handed while dragging it. It makes a world of difference.
If I ever left my wife like that, I'd be sleeping with the dog indefinitely!
Be safe out there!
You are right, all true. We learned the hard way unfortunately. I can say we know now though :)
Last February, I was on a guided trip in Ecuador. We drove to the take out and the level looked fine. When we got to the put in, our guide said it looked a little juicy, but O.K. By the time we got geared up and took off the river had come up about 2 feet. We ran the first set of rapids and walked out. That first set of rapids was very exciting!
What is she doing if she can’t swim or know basic stuff on what to do if you lose your kayak
This was very early on, we still had a lot to learn. You don't know what you don't know...
@@toekneegreen37 well I hope she learned some things on that day and Is doing much better! She should have never been by herself though IMO
Happy weekend!
Looks awesome and scary. Glad you guys are okay
Thanks, we are too!
It seemed like a good idea at the time, right? Great public service film. Glad y'all are safe!
Heck me and the other guy were initially planning on laps! At the time, seemed like the best idea ever lol
Hay cocodrilos en esas aguas?
No crocodiles thankfully :)
"I don't know what to do" wow! not the words you want to hear from someone you do adventures with, wow!
Oh good lord...really?
That was intense!!! Thanks for sharing!
You bet!