@ I guess you perfectly described the difference between Community and Rick and Morty. Not saying one's better than the other, but both are tackled in very different ways.
So if Jeff is the lawyer who doesn't practice law, Britta is the inactive activist, Troy is the athlete who hates sports, Annie is the ruthless innocent, Shirley is the mother whose family we barely see, Abed is the heart of the group yet is socially dysfunctional - Who is Pierce? Just an old guy? I'm seriously asking :)
Arthur Lance Every other character has a duality of character. They have defining characteristics that are opposite. I cant think of what Pierce would be?
Definitely. A friend of mine watched it once or twice but didn't like it. I showed her the pilot and then she got it. I think it helps if you start from the beginning.
Enthused Norseman i mention that because what everyone thinks is good or bad is a completely subjective thing, and in order to consider something a masterpiece you have to really, really like it.
HUGE fan of the show, but I totally agree, I had to watch at least the first five episodes, the show really took off as all the characters got their development, and now, I can never stop watching this show every year. I'm starting my fifth re-watch of the show as season six slowly approaches.
Community is post modern as far as being self referential, but their is a lot of feeling underlying to meta humor. There is sincere messaging. The contradicting characters have real values and care for each other. If anything it's a masterpiece of the "New Sincerity"
But isn't it's sincerity in the face of cold meta-humor another binary contradiction that defines the show? Family Guy has meta-humor, but it lacks genuine feeling, so the contradiction is in how both sincerity and meta-narratives are the engine the show runs upon.
@ Meta-narratives are part of the postmodernist movement. Postmodernism is the movement that acknowledged meta-narratives and decided to put meta as an idea in play. For example, Modern Warfare is a postmodern pastiche of every action movie ever, therefore breaking down the meta-narrative of the action movie. Meta is self-reflexive, acknowledging that it is playing on every action movie trope ever, but the postmodern part comes in when we see these tropes in a new form, i.e., a paintball game.
Community is the biggest and most effective way to make us think how we perceive life in the context of our culture. If we end up hating our culture and criticizing it or if we love it and worship it is up to us. The show is uninterested on purpose to make us reflect on that.
Community is now on Netflix and I have finally watched it. Revisiting this video is crazy weird. RIP Idea Channel, you have been all but forgotten to the shifting landscape of time and culture. Also, Long Live Mike Rugnetta.
Every time i come back to one of their videos, having learned many more things, i realize how densely pack with ideas and inspiring this show was. One of the rare channels that actually asks you to think
Beyond being Postmodern, I just love how funny this show is, and the character interactions are amazing! I watched the first episode, right after it aired, and right away I knew it would be my favorite show of all time. I love every season, EVEN season 4, and while I feel it's pastiche/parody element, along with the continuing story lines of Greendale being saved, are getting a little tired, it continues to be one of the funniest, best written and challenging shows on TV.
I once read somewhere that the show is metamodernist (no pun intended), which makes sense considering it's more self-aware, rational and even optimistic (or naïve?) than most postmodern things. Yeah it's a remix but everything is and always has been, pure art is a farce and that's the problem with postmodernism as well: it's too critical/cynical to sustain itself which why the arts are becoming more classical but that's something completely different than just a tv show that is probably one of the best designed since the Fresh Prince (you read that right, I love that Smith)
@@123rtXd Before watching community I was watching The Big Bang Theory And i know Chuck Lorre's Approach to Sitcoms is outdated while trying to use pop culture to appeal to current generation Playing with stereotypes And laugh tracks Using Girl next door lol While with community Dan Harmon approach Is Postmodern
You, my friend, hit the nail on the Chang. I thought the same thing when watching this video. Whether this show is being meta or postmodern it's biggest strengths are the heart, hilarity, and the richness of the characters. If it didn't stand on it's own in those respects we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Community is a post-modern masterpiece. But I'm commenting because of something else. At the end you talked about Fire Walk with Me, and I have an interesting story about that. I was a freshman at NYU when that came out. We walked out of our dorm to go see that, and as we did my roommates called on people in the streets to join us. As we walked to the cineplex (this was 1990) people from the university and the neighborhood joined us. (NYU has no real campus. We made up most of Greeenwhich Village) people just started joining us, both from the college and from the neighborhood. By the time we got to the cinema, we had a crowd who had joined us. We ended up filling most of the screening and the next. It was really an amazing time.
I love when you talk about Roland Barthes. His theory here reminds me of Ezra Pound's logopoeia, or historical rhyme. Pound defined logopoeia as the dance of the intellect among words, pointing out the referential qualities of language. Basically, Pound believed that each word has a layer beyond its straightforward meaning and auditory qualities; words carry and build upon their past uses and thus endlessly reference other works. Historical rhyme involves restating past events, literature, art, etc. in new contexts, weaving seemingly disparate moments in time to create a commentary on the present. Seems to me that Community engages in these highly referential, critical practices. I think Community is a postmodern masterpiece! Great idea!
I've heard that before and I thoroughly disagree. Deadpool simply breaks the fourth wall, whereas Community does much, much more clever stuff. They play with the rules of the genre, play with fabula and syuzhet, have a character impose the the rules of the genre on reality, have the reality impose the rules of the genre on characters, explore complex framing devices and much more.
Community is just a masterpiece. My friends and I talked about that show a lot when it was airing. And now we're talking about it again, with it being on Netflix now.
everything is a post-modern master piece...with enough argumentation.
4 года назад
It's not really post modern. It's meta. Two different movement. Post modernism is deconstruction of a trope. Meta (as people understand it) is a different movement that use the media as a tools instead of a medium. Sure there is a post-modernist part to it but making a mention of the medium to the viewer is different than what post modern art is. Post medern art is hated because all it does is say look how stupid this trope is. Meta just play back and fort with the viewer. The best exemple is the '' this is not a pipe'' image To mixt meta or (post post modernism as he say) is a terrible bastardisation of what is meta. For those who don' t get the difference think Stanley parabole, Bioshock the reveal or most 4rth wall break.
If you pay attention to everything Abed says, he seems to be fully aware that he is in a television show. At one point, Jeff even says "he thinks his life is a television show", and they mock Abed for thinking everything was made of clay during the Christmas episode. Abed even narrates or pushes the episodes to fall into the molds of a stereotypical metanarrative.
this is the ONLY thing, or at least the first, that helped me fully grasp what postmodernism is for my cultural studies class, thank you so much PBS!!! (i have seen the show but i would've understood this anyhow)
Isn't the idea of a postmodern "masterpiece" contradictatory in it of itself? Or could that be the very thing that makes it a masterpiece? Which, in turn, would make iit not contradicatory in the fact that it's contradictatory... I am so confused right now.
One amazing example of postmodernism in Community is the clip show episode where it pokes fun at other sitcom clip shows by having scenes that never actually happened, which adds to the comedy of it.
You know how when somebody says something that you didn't expect, that is so weird that you're left speechless, and all you can say is "What's wrong with you?" I'm feeling the opposite. This is awesome. What's right with you?
Wow, I love pretty much EVERY show you mentioned. I didn't know what "postmodernism" was and I didn't really understand what "meta" meant til I watched this video. I almost want to rewatch it now! Thanks for the video! Subscribed :D
I like that someone does a breakdown and analysis of Community, cause it's a very clever show. That being said, I do disagree that Community is a postmodern show for two reasons: 1. Community is more concerned with meta-fiction than postmodernism and not all meta-fiction is postmodern. In fact it predates post-modernism thousands of year, including works of Plato, 1001 Nights, Cervantes, Shakespeare and many more. 2. Not everything that doubts reality or objectivity is postmodern. That kind of doubt or perhaps even disdain for objectivity is an important part of postmodernism, but it does not have a copyright to it. Overall, great video, mate!
I would agree, furthermore I see Community more like metamodernist work or New Sincerety, also, the literature example in this video Infinite Jest by D.F. Wallace is also much more metamodernist than postmodern, imho.
Kasparas Varžinskas I heard New Sincerity a few times before but the things described to belong to this wave don't tell me its clear motives. Could you explain to me what New Sincerity is?
DarkAngelEU Well I guess it was best described by same Wallace as a new cultural wave which denies irony and searches for the forms of sincerity which were abandoned when postmodernism took the place. I'm just an enthusiast for this stuff, but I guess the bottom line of New Sincerity is coming back to what actually postmodernism distanced and avoided by the means of irony - thrive for proximity and honesty.
Kasparas Varžinskas Oh cool, so I guess it fits my theory on truth :) I'm a student photographer and lately I've been thinking alot about how philosophy has changed societies as it is the highest form of art (besides painting imo). Greeks and Romans had truth in the mind, what you could think of was true. This is reflected in their myths and art, truth was an ideal. After that, especially in the middle ages, truth became a fatalism or sheer acceptance: the Lord had written your path and there was no way you could change it. If you were born a farmer you shouldn't dream of becoming a scientist. In art it kinda shows people just the way they are, those denying their fate die and the rich are being portrayed as the only ones that matter for they are denizens of God. Modernists saw at truth as a construction because of industrialization, Cartier-Bresson is a good example who mixes construction (framing) and fate (the decisive moment) to show this change of thinking. However after WWII truth became a product, you could buy truth with a tv. Make-up changed your appearance, we have come to the point that truth is so fake we don't even know if we'll ever find it. We're blinded by the light, it has become too bright so we choose to hide behind small screens that only show small rays of truth, only a filtered truth. Sorry for the long text but I believe this is what drives humans and always will drive us for living until tomorrow: a search for truth. A search for actual enlightenment. If you ask me, it can only come from experience and the memories out of those. Lemme know what you think :)
I love this channel so much, but I must admit that some things/references go right over my head. BUT! This just makes me want to consume more creative works etc. so thank you so so much! I love this, and I live for this kind of thing.
If there really is no objective truth then the statement "objective truth does not exist" would then be an objectively true statement but if an objectively true statement exist in the universe then that would make the statement "objective truth does not exist" wrong, but if it is wrong then no objective truth in the universe exists thus making the statement "objective truth does not exist" objectively true. I have just created a logic that proves then disproves itself simultaneously, a paradox. since paradoxes cannot exist there must exist some objective truths in the universe and the statement "objective truth does not exist" must be completely false.
The statement "objective truth does not exist" would be a subjective opinion, if someone said "Brahman is the god of all creation" it may be true to that person; however someone else might say "Brahman does not exist" which would also be true for the person believing it, thus truth is subjective. Absolute truth is unknowable, because one would need to be omniscient in order to know truth from untruth.The concept of truth is contingent on mind, without mind there is no truth and therefore no objectivity.
When listening to the commentary from Dan Harmon and hearing how much thought he has put into where the show was going to go and the depth of the characters it really makes me wish I were in one of the other timelines. Six seasons and a movie!
YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! I heart you idea channel. Once again you magically made a brilliantly awesome mini-lecture of some of the most interesting ideas from my college courses. Where do you find the time to compile all those photos and gifs that are random yet oh so perfect everytime?!
I mean, if there were no truth, nothing could be discussed, because there would be no way to know whether the other even understands a single word you're saying. "You can test it", you could say, but would your results be true? Anyway, I refuse to believe that there is no objective truth. It might be impossible to know all of it and people might see different parts of it, but it must be there. As an aside, I also dislike the elephant simily (the one with three blind people touching an elephant and claiming it is like a snake/wall/tree depending on what part they're touching), because the people using that simily usually use it to claim that some conflicting views (religions, for example) are actually describing the same thing and thus the person using the simily is essentially insinuating that they can see but others are blind. Who are they to claim that it's one "animal" and not two or three different things, when they themselves are just as "blind" as everyone else?
joelproko I think you can, you just need to embrace the idea that no one cares about what you have to say. It's kind of liberating when you think about it. I mean, look at Ulysees.
+joelproko You are absolutely right. You can't prove that anybody can understand anything of what you are saying - which contradicts the definition of truth, or not? (by the way, you can look at the 'chinese room' thought experiment, which tackles this problem a bit, but within an other context [turing-test]). And that is kinda the point: real, universal truth can't be proven. Even science acknowledges that.
+Sigma Which is where I think the importance of truth arises in its existence as a cultural aspiration, rather than a physical reality, What I mean by this is that while Truth may not technically exist, the concept of truth can be highly motivating--motivation which is necessary for any kind of high-quality thinking, discussing, and indeed, culture. What happens when people stop aspiring to truth is that the quality of their thinking and argumentation deteriorates, and with that deterioration, we lose the capacity the capacity to think, account for variables and so. So, while truth might be impossible, the belief in truth is necessary to have anything resembling well...intelligence. Or, at least, intelligent thought. The philosopher Wittgenstein recognized this when he realized that aspiring to truth is the most important aspect of it--not whether you reach it or not.
I love how Community's genius is being recognized. You can often almost hear some of Jeff or Abed's lines being spoken by the theorists you learn about in contemporary theory classes.
That comment about Glee? Pretty snobby. Seems to me to be contradictory to the sort of anti-elistism/freedom post-modernism represents. And I don't even like Glee
RosesFall I took the crack about Glee as a reference to Community more than anything else, as one of their running jokes is bashing the "glee club", which in itself is the community writers taking a shot at the show Glee since it was one of their direct competitors.
Living in England, I'd never even heard of 'community' before this. I then proceeded to watch the first episode, which then led me to watch every episode in a couple of days. And it was brilliant.
Each episode of Community is like a mini movie. No other comedy- hell, even most dramas- can create a story each episode that can show genuine characterization and examine the basis of human interaction and how each of us can be flawed and yet learn to love not only each other but ourselves. And all of this while being funny as hell.
I think you nailed it with your comment about Community being built on contradictions, the biggest of which is the contradiction of a show that dissects, remixes, and examines our culture to an almost clinical degree and still finds it full of goodness and good intentions (epitomized by Jeff's S3 finale speech… "I'm lying when I say there is no truth…")
I have to say, the first one of these videos I watched, I was kinda put off by you. It could have been the rapid speech, or the way you moved your head around all the content put up in the back, but now. I just... I don't know, I mean...I think this is the coolest RUclips channel around. It's my goto, gotta-kill-eight-minutes kinda place. And I thank you for that.
Thanks for the clearest and most concise definition of postmodernism I have found. Take that Moe Syzlack, with the "weird for the sake of being weird!" But how do you respond to FilmCritHulk's saying that Postmodernism does not exist and is merely an extension of Modernism?
A major of theme of Community is that truth is relative but life is fleeting. In many episodes cynicism morphs into circumstances which bring the group closer together. Such as the Cabin Pen episode and the Inspector Spacetime Con episode. In many ways the rallying cry of community is to break from meta-narratives in order to live fuller lives. Making Community remarkably different from other post-modern media which revels in its lampooning rather than strike against the meta-narrative.
I definitely think Community is PostModern, I feel like it delves further though into an area of PostPostModernism/MetaModernism. I think the episode Paradigms of Human Memory is a good example. The scene that comes to mind is the Annie Jeff shipping scene, a direct homage to a RUclips video Harmon saw. Already we have a parody homage based on an homage to a show. Harmon pays homage to an homage of his show. Then takes it a step further by parodying his homage with the Pierce and Abed ship. A parody of an homage of an homage to an original. The added absurdity is that this is a flashback episode, so we assume all seven of them are remembering all of the exact same moments between Jeff and Annie, along with close ups and the same Sara Bareillis song, as each other. The depth to that show is insane, and I think that's one example of many, that could prove Community's PostPost/MetaModernism.
I think one of the best examples of the postmodernist narrative in community is the theme of romance, not only in the episode "Romantic Expressionism" with the weird and creepy looks at the end, but also in the series as a whole. It seems to take the romantic interrelationships that drive the plot of most sitcoms and pokes fun at it through things like the characters not caring when they find out who's sleeping together.
I really appreciate the tie to and break down of pomo here. Community is by far my favorite sitcom, partly because it is hilarious and also because of this exploration of expectation, and I think it is more than just a performance of disinterest. Even within pastiche episodes, Community asks us to identify with and see the complexity in each character/situation serving the particular pastiche as well as the season's story arc. It is not simply "us laughing at them" (cough* Big Bang Theory).
Community is just amazing at showing how even though we put ourselves, and each other into categories (religion, lifestyle, etc) you really cannot define someone by these categories. Being an Atheist doesn't mean we hate religion and being a nerd doesn't mean we're bad at sports.
This video made me think about the Adventure Time video you made, and how we like Adventure Time because of the nostalgic-ness of the show. I think I like Community for similar reasons. It mirrors how I look back on Meta-narratives now. It takes these already established "story-norms" we learned from the tv and movies we watched as a kid and adds a splash of cynicism (which is something naturally acquired by simply growing up). Maybe this is why people can relate to Community so well.
Great episode! Community carefully challenges the common tropes, relationships, ideologies, and mindsets of our society. When does post-modern critique become the norm that then get's critiqued by post-modern art? Also, after 'Herstory of Dance', Community is totally back on track. #4SeasonsandaMovie
I read it! Thanks for this comment and for a reasoned disagreement; I have a response but it's too big to fit here so I'll definitely have something to say about this at the end of next week's video. Have an awesome weekend! :D
I kind of always saw it like the average dad vs the average step dad. The dad isn't always the best dad, but he tries his best to teach you and help you grow. The step dad, in trying to impress you and make you like him, he throws goodies your way and doesn't exactly let you earn your gifts.
Even though subscription isn't a meta-narrative, the idea that I should only reject meta-narratives is a meta-narrative (one I've chosen to reject in fact) so I could reject subscription. As RUclips's subscription interface gets closer to "here is what our AI thinks you should watch" and further from "here are your subscriptions these ones have updates you haven't seen", I continue to consider doing just that. However subscribing does seem to be a feedback mechanism by which I can let creators know I like their stuff and the world seems to be a loss right now for both a decent RSS reader and a decent way to get RSS feeds from RUclips Channels so I'll conform for now.
My whole shebang with the whole situation is that community is not the only show that employs meta narratives and self-referential post-modernist yadda yadda yadda, but it is the only one that does so *lovingly*, and in doing so, holds up a mirror to the audience reminding them that yes, the narratives we use to construct reality may be light as air, but we still keep coming back to them because they make us happy. A show about a make-shift dysfunctional family makes us very happy.
I think Community isn't trying to hard to be anything. Watching it I just feel that everything comes from a really organic place. It may be post modern but it isn't all intellectual it has some real heart to it as well. That's why I love it.
Post-modern or not, it's a masterpiece anyhow.
I agree, but these are quite interesting thoughts about the concept of the show.
@ I guess you perfectly described the difference between Community and Rick and Morty. Not saying one's better than the other, but both are tackled in very different ways.
Santiago Bauzá it’s good to see other people returning to this RUclips channel as well :)
Streets ahead
So if Jeff is the lawyer who doesn't practice law, Britta is the inactive activist, Troy is the athlete who hates sports, Annie is the ruthless innocent, Shirley is the mother whose family we barely see, Abed is the heart of the group yet is socially dysfunctional - Who is Pierce?
Just an old guy?
I'm seriously asking :)
Ivo Sotirov Well, he's an old guy who's been attending community college for the past decade...
Arthur Lance Every other character has a duality of character. They have defining characteristics that are opposite. I cant think of what Pierce would be?
Ivo Sotirov he's a member of the group who is not considered a member of the group
Jeremy Reff
He also is a wise old man who isn't wise.
Ivo Sotirov A mistake. An amalgamation of the modern human.
OUR FUTURE.
(I suggest you all commit!)
I give this video 5 MeowMeowBeenz.
This video is streets ahead
"I watched an episode of Community, it's not that good" You have to watch more than one episode.
Definitely. A friend of mine watched it once or twice but didn't like it. I showed her the pilot and then she got it. I think it helps if you start from the beginning.
I like Community a lot, but i don't love it, so does that mean i don't think is a masterpiece?
lamecasuelas2 Maybe? Who knows.
Enthused Norseman i mention that because what everyone thinks is good or bad is a completely subjective thing, and in order to consider something a masterpiece you have to really, really like it.
HUGE fan of the show, but I totally agree, I had to watch at least the first five episodes, the show really took off as all the characters got their development, and now, I can never stop watching this show every year. I'm starting my fifth re-watch of the show as season six slowly approaches.
DREAMATORIUM NOT IMAGINARIUM OMGGG
Well it's a masterpiece one way or another.
This wrinkled my brain
THAT wrinkled my brain
Community is post modern as far as being self referential, but their is a lot of feeling underlying to meta humor. There is sincere messaging. The contradicting characters have real values and care for each other. If anything it's a masterpiece of the "New Sincerity"
Yeaahhhhhh, a masterpiece of the post post modernism (we gotta find it a better name, along the lines of "new sincerity")
Metamodernism
But isn't it's sincerity in the face of cold meta-humor another binary contradiction that defines the show? Family Guy has meta-humor, but it lacks genuine feeling, so the contradiction is in how both sincerity and meta-narratives are the engine the show runs upon.
@ Meta-narratives are part of the postmodernist movement. Postmodernism is the movement that acknowledged meta-narratives and decided to put meta as an idea in play. For example, Modern Warfare is a postmodern pastiche of every action movie ever, therefore breaking down the meta-narrative of the action movie. Meta is self-reflexive, acknowledging that it is playing on every action movie trope ever, but the postmodern part comes in when we see these tropes in a new form, i.e., a paintball game.
Community is the biggest and most effective way to make us think how we perceive life in the context of our culture. If we end up hating our culture and criticizing it or if we love it and worship it is up to us. The show is uninterested on purpose to make us reflect on that.
Did I just see the Donnie Darko rabbit tell me to take the red pill in an internet video about Community?!?!
Community is now on Netflix and I have finally watched it. Revisiting this video is crazy weird. RIP Idea Channel, you have been all but forgotten to the shifting landscape of time and culture.
Also, Long Live Mike Rugnetta.
Every time i come back to one of their videos, having learned many more things, i realize how densely pack with ideas and inspiring this show was. One of the rare channels that actually asks you to think
Thank you so much, I'm writing a uni essay about Community and postmodernity, and so my lecturer showed me this. :D you're totally streets ahead :P
Beyond being Postmodern, I just love how funny this show is, and the character interactions are amazing! I watched the first episode, right after it aired, and right away I knew it would be my favorite show of all time. I love every season, EVEN season 4, and while I feel it's pastiche/parody element, along with the continuing story lines of Greendale being saved, are getting a little tired, it continues to be one of the funniest, best written and challenging shows on TV.
Can I just say the way Season 5 ends fits with the intro by “The 88”. They all just slowly leave one by one.
I once read somewhere that the show is metamodernist (no pun intended), which makes sense considering it's more self-aware, rational and even optimistic (or naïve?) than most postmodern things. Yeah it's a remix but everything is and always has been, pure art is a farce and that's the problem with postmodernism as well: it's too critical/cynical to sustain itself which why the arts are becoming more classical but that's something completely different than just a tv show that is probably one of the best designed since the Fresh Prince (you read that right, I love that Smith)
Big Bang Theory is good, Community is just streets ahead. Thank goodness Yahoo picked them up for season 6. #6seasonsandamovie
big bang theory is an awful show lmaooooo
If you try watching BBT without the laugh track, the show becomes absolute garbage. Plus it is the worst stereotype of "nerds"
Agreed, can't believe I used to think it was any good.
@@123rtXd Before watching community
I was watching The Big Bang Theory
And i know Chuck Lorre's Approach to Sitcoms is outdated while trying to use pop culture to appeal to current generation
Playing with stereotypes
And laugh tracks
Using Girl next door lol
While with community
Dan Harmon approach
Is Postmodern
BBT is not good
just glad it was kept alive as long as it did, something i'd binge constantly
You, my friend, hit the nail on the Chang. I thought the same thing when watching this video. Whether this show is being meta or postmodern it's biggest strengths are the heart, hilarity, and the richness of the characters. If it didn't stand on it's own in those respects we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Can you please do MORE Community stuff??
Community is a post-modern masterpiece. But I'm commenting because of something else. At the end you talked about Fire Walk with Me, and I have an interesting story about that. I was a freshman at NYU when that came out. We walked out of our dorm to go see that, and as we did my roommates called on people in the streets to join us. As we walked to the cineplex (this was 1990) people from the university and the neighborhood joined us. (NYU has no real campus. We made up most of Greeenwhich Village) people just started joining us, both from the college and from the neighborhood. By the time we got to the cinema, we had a crowd who had joined us. We ended up filling most of the screening and the next. It was really an amazing time.
I love when you talk about Roland Barthes. His theory here reminds me of Ezra Pound's logopoeia, or historical rhyme. Pound defined logopoeia as the dance of the intellect among words, pointing out the referential qualities of language. Basically, Pound believed that each word has a layer beyond its straightforward meaning and auditory qualities; words carry and build upon their past uses and thus endlessly reference other works. Historical rhyme involves restating past events, literature, art, etc. in new contexts, weaving seemingly disparate moments in time to create a commentary on the present. Seems to me that Community engages in these highly referential, critical practices. I think Community is a postmodern masterpiece! Great idea!
Community is one the best TV shows ever made, arguably the best sitcom ever.
There's no argument...it's the best
Most definitely, I cant think of a better or.
In other words, Community is the Deadpool of shows.
WOW. You just wrinkled my brain. o.O
but funny
No cuz deadpool is still a generic superhero movie
I've heard that before and I thoroughly disagree. Deadpool simply breaks the fourth wall, whereas Community does much, much more clever stuff. They play with the rules of the genre, play with fabula and syuzhet, have a character impose the the rules of the genre on reality, have the reality impose the rules of the genre on characters, explore complex framing devices and much more.
Community is my favorite show
his dean puns sound scarily accurate
Community is just a masterpiece. My friends and I talked about that show a lot when it was airing. And now we're talking about it again, with it being on Netflix now.
my favorite series of all time
same
Im certain of Community's place in the world, but I'm absolutely certain that the writing of that segment was incredibly awesome.
everything is a post-modern master piece...with enough argumentation.
It's not really post modern. It's meta. Two different movement. Post modernism is deconstruction of a trope.
Meta (as people understand it) is a different movement that use the media as a tools instead of a medium.
Sure there is a post-modernist part to it but making a mention of the medium to the viewer is different than what post modern art is.
Post medern art is hated because all it does is say look how stupid this trope is.
Meta just play back and fort with the viewer. The best exemple is the '' this is not a pipe'' image
To mixt meta or (post post modernism as he say) is a terrible bastardisation of what is meta.
For those who don' t get the difference think Stanley parabole, Bioshock the reveal or most 4rth wall break.
You used jacksfilms' twilight jacob I'm so happy
If you pay attention to everything Abed says, he seems to be fully aware that he is in a television show. At one point, Jeff even says "he thinks his life is a television show", and they mock Abed for thinking everything was made of clay during the Christmas episode. Abed even narrates or pushes the episodes to fall into the molds of a stereotypical metanarrative.
this is the ONLY thing, or at least the first, that helped me fully grasp what postmodernism is for my cultural studies class, thank you so much PBS!!! (i have seen the show but i would've understood this anyhow)
Isn't the idea of a postmodern "masterpiece" contradictatory in it of itself? Or could that be the very thing that makes it a masterpiece? Which, in turn, would make iit not contradicatory in the fact that it's contradictatory... I am so confused right now.
Oh my God. That was a flawless Dean impression right at the start. High five
if you don’t watch community your streets behind
One amazing example of postmodernism in Community is the clip show episode where it pokes fun at other sitcom clip shows by having scenes that never actually happened, which adds to the comedy of it.
this aged well
You know how when somebody says something that you didn't expect, that is so weird that you're left speechless, and all you can say is "What's wrong with you?"
I'm feeling the opposite. This is awesome. What's right with you?
Wow, I love pretty much EVERY show you mentioned.
I didn't know what "postmodernism" was and I didn't really understand what "meta" meant til I watched this video. I almost want to rewatch it now!
Thanks for the video! Subscribed :D
I like that someone does a breakdown and analysis of Community, cause it's a very clever show. That being said, I do disagree that Community is a postmodern show for two reasons:
1. Community is more concerned with meta-fiction than postmodernism and not all meta-fiction is postmodern. In fact it predates post-modernism thousands of year, including works of Plato, 1001 Nights, Cervantes, Shakespeare and many more.
2. Not everything that doubts reality or objectivity is postmodern. That kind of doubt or perhaps even disdain for objectivity is an important part of postmodernism, but it does not have a copyright to it.
Overall, great video, mate!
postpostmodern is obviously METAmodern, it's first signs are upon us
I would agree, furthermore I see Community more like metamodernist work or New Sincerety, also, the literature example in this video Infinite Jest by D.F. Wallace is also much more metamodernist than postmodern, imho.
Kasparas Varžinskas I heard New Sincerity a few times before but the things described to belong to this wave don't tell me its clear motives. Could you explain to me what New Sincerity is?
DarkAngelEU Well I guess it was best described by same Wallace as a new cultural wave which denies irony and searches for the forms of sincerity which were abandoned when postmodernism took the place. I'm just an enthusiast for this stuff, but I guess the bottom line of New Sincerity is coming back to what actually postmodernism distanced and avoided by the means of irony - thrive for proximity and honesty.
Kasparas Varžinskas Oh cool, so I guess it fits my theory on truth :)
I'm a student photographer and lately I've been thinking alot about how philosophy has changed societies as it is the highest form of art (besides painting imo).
Greeks and Romans had truth in the mind, what you could think of was true. This is reflected in their myths and art, truth was an ideal.
After that, especially in the middle ages, truth became a fatalism or sheer acceptance: the Lord had written your path and there was no way you could change it. If you were born a farmer you shouldn't dream of becoming a scientist. In art it kinda shows people just the way they are, those denying their fate die and the rich are being portrayed as the only ones that matter for they are denizens of God. Modernists saw at truth as a construction because of industrialization, Cartier-Bresson is a good example who mixes construction (framing) and fate (the decisive moment) to show this change of thinking.
However after WWII truth became a product, you could buy truth with a tv. Make-up changed your appearance, we have come to the point that truth is so fake we don't even know if we'll ever find it. We're blinded by the light, it has become too bright so we choose to hide behind small screens that only show small rays of truth, only a filtered truth.
Sorry for the long text but I believe this is what drives humans and always will drive us for living until tomorrow: a search for truth. A search for actual enlightenment. If you ask me, it can only come from experience and the memories out of those. Lemme know what you think :)
I think the third season had some of the show's best episodes. "Digital Estate Planning" is my all-time favorite.
Man that show went downhill. Dan harmon getting fired is equal to, if not worse than the cancellation of firefly. As far as cinematic calamities go.
Luckily he came back :D
I feel validated when you link to videos I've already seen ...
You showed 'Infinite Jest', some people list Wallace as 'post-post-modernism'. Welcome to the 21st century, it's hilarious
Watching this in2018 community still awesome and am rewatching it
Community is so streets ahead.
Season six will be streets behind then.....
I love this channel so much, but I must admit that some things/references go right over my head. BUT! This just makes me want to consume more creative works etc. so thank you so so much! I love this, and I live for this kind of thing.
I didn't know the lyrics of Community's theme song until I watched this video.
Took me ages to find actually make out what they were saying
OMG!!!! There was an Are You Being Served GIF and I just lost it!!!! Love that show and it made my day that it was referenced!!!
My brain
This guy is so hyped up I can't tell if he is breathing in and exhaling while he's talking a 100 WPM
I still have no idea what post modernism means.
+Zenith Wills no one does, it's impossible to define as it is a series of somewhat truths as opposed to an absolute truth :D
+Zenith Wills I call it a generational bandwagon full of limelight seeking philosophers and drunks exploiting the past.
+Greg Washington Is it ok if I quote you in my thesis?
I'm just super excited that you did an entire video about community :)
If there really is no objective truth then the statement "objective truth does not exist" would then be an objectively true statement but if an objectively true statement exist in the universe then that would make the statement "objective truth does not exist" wrong, but if it is wrong then no objective truth in the universe exists thus making the statement "objective truth does not exist" objectively true. I have just created a logic that proves then disproves itself simultaneously, a paradox. since paradoxes cannot exist there must exist some objective truths in the universe and the statement "objective truth does not exist" must be completely false.
Im agree to disagree...
That bring us to the question: Nicolas Cage - good or bad?
Migue Lo Easy, Paradox. We're on the same side here.
Migue Lo It's "Let's agree to disagree."
The statement "objective truth does not exist" would be a subjective opinion, if someone said "Brahman is the god of all creation" it may be true to that person; however someone else might say "Brahman does not exist" which would also be true for the person believing it, thus truth is subjective. Absolute truth is unknowable, because one would need to be omniscient in order to know truth from untruth.The concept of truth is contingent on mind, without mind there is no truth and therefore no objectivity.
When listening to the commentary from Dan Harmon and hearing how much thought he has put into where the show was going to go and the depth of the characters it really makes me wish I were in one of the other timelines. Six seasons and a movie!
Forgive my ignorance, but postmodernism sounds sort of like deconstruction with a focus on being critical.
well, i guess it IS.
Community is the best tv show ever! This video is streets ahead!
BRONYS AREN'T A PROBLEM!!! THEIR A BLESSING.... ALL GLORY TO THE NEW LUNAR EMPIRE AND PRINCESS LUNA!!!!
YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! I heart you idea channel. Once again you magically made a brilliantly awesome mini-lecture of some of the most interesting ideas from my college courses. Where do you find the time to compile all those photos and gifs that are random yet oh so perfect everytime?!
You are completely wrong with ur understanding of what postmodern is.
Community thank fucking god is not a postmodern art.
And it is very, very good.
OnSergLine Then, pray tell, what is postmodernism? I like his definition just fine.
It all makes so much sense now!
Meh, I really dislike the postmodern worldview. It results in ultimately not being able to say anything.
I mean, if there were no truth, nothing could be discussed, because there would be no way to know whether the other even understands a single word you're saying. "You can test it", you could say, but would your results be true?
Anyway, I refuse to believe that there is no objective truth. It might be impossible to know all of it and people might see different parts of it, but it must be there.
As an aside, I also dislike the elephant simily (the one with three blind people touching an elephant and claiming it is like a snake/wall/tree depending on what part they're touching), because the people using that simily usually use it to claim that some conflicting views (religions, for example) are actually describing the same thing and thus the person using the simily is essentially insinuating that they can see but others are blind. Who are they to claim that it's one "animal" and not two or three different things, when they themselves are just as "blind" as everyone else?
joelproko I think you can, you just need to embrace the idea that no one cares about what you have to say. It's kind of liberating when you think about it. I mean, look at Ulysees.
Bradley Bradley But that's speaking to empty air, not a discussion.
+joelproko You are absolutely right. You can't prove that anybody can understand anything of what you are saying - which contradicts the definition of truth, or not? (by the way, you can look at the 'chinese room' thought experiment, which tackles this problem a bit, but within an other context [turing-test]). And that is kinda the point: real, universal truth can't be proven. Even science acknowledges that.
+Sigma Which is where I think the importance of truth arises in its existence as a cultural aspiration, rather than a physical reality, What I mean by this is that while Truth may not technically exist, the concept of truth can be highly motivating--motivation which is necessary for any kind of high-quality thinking, discussing, and indeed, culture. What happens when people stop aspiring to truth is that the quality of their thinking and argumentation deteriorates, and with that deterioration, we lose the capacity the capacity to think, account for variables and so. So, while truth might be impossible, the belief in truth is necessary to have anything resembling well...intelligence. Or, at least, intelligent thought. The philosopher Wittgenstein recognized this when he realized that aspiring to truth is the most important aspect of it--not whether you reach it or not.
I love how Community's genius is being recognized. You can often almost hear some of Jeff or Abed's lines being spoken by the theorists you learn about in contemporary theory classes.
It's bracingly postmodern, not necessarily a masterpiece.
I miss 2013~ Thanks again for this video
That comment about Glee? Pretty snobby. Seems to me to be contradictory to the sort of anti-elistism/freedom post-modernism represents. And I don't even like Glee
***** How is what I said snobby?
Yup, really snobby - elitism
RosesFall
I took the crack about Glee as a reference to Community more than anything else, as one of their running jokes is bashing the "glee club", which in itself is the community writers taking a shot at the show Glee since it was one of their direct competitors.
oh no he's snobby, somebody do something
Glee is garbage
Living in England, I'd never even heard of 'community' before this. I then proceeded to watch the first episode, which then led me to watch every episode in a couple of days. And it was brilliant.
Liam Dryden also did an A Capella cover of the Community theme! (Which is linked in his video that is linked here, ironically enough!)
one of the best explanations of postmodernism i have heard in quite some time and for that i will subscribe to see what else is offered
Each episode of Community is like a mini movie. No other comedy- hell, even most dramas- can create a story each episode that can show genuine characterization and examine the basis of human interaction and how each of us can be flawed and yet learn to love not only each other but ourselves.
And all of this while being funny as hell.
I think you nailed it with your comment about Community being built on contradictions, the biggest of which is the contradiction of a show that dissects, remixes, and examines our culture to an almost clinical degree and still finds it full of goodness and good intentions (epitomized by Jeff's S3 finale speech… "I'm lying when I say there is no truth…")
Thank you. Because of this video i started watching Community. And I just love it. Thank you.
I took a break from watching Community to go on RUclips. This is what I found. I cannot escape it.
I LOVE the Arcade Fire album in the back :D
This was very well thought out and presented.
I was already sold the moment you use "Dean" as a pun.
I have to say, the first one of these videos I watched, I was kinda put off by you. It could have been the rapid speech, or the way you moved your head around all the content put up in the back, but now. I just... I don't know, I mean...I think this is the coolest RUclips channel around. It's my goto, gotta-kill-eight-minutes kinda place. And I thank you for that.
Thanks for the clearest and most concise definition of postmodernism I have found. Take that Moe Syzlack, with the "weird for the sake of being weird!" But how do you respond to FilmCritHulk's saying that Postmodernism does not exist and is merely an extension of Modernism?
A major of theme of Community is that truth is relative but life is fleeting. In many episodes cynicism morphs into circumstances which bring the group closer together. Such as the Cabin Pen episode and the Inspector Spacetime Con episode. In many ways the rallying cry of community is to break from meta-narratives in order to live fuller lives. Making Community remarkably different from other post-modern media which revels in its lampooning rather than strike against the meta-narrative.
That was a really good Dean impression.
I definitely think Community is PostModern, I feel like it delves further though into an area of PostPostModernism/MetaModernism. I think the episode Paradigms of Human Memory is a good example. The scene that comes to mind is the Annie Jeff shipping scene, a direct homage to a RUclips video Harmon saw. Already we have a parody homage based on an homage to a show. Harmon pays homage to an homage of his show. Then takes it a step further by parodying his homage with the Pierce and Abed ship. A parody of an homage of an homage to an original. The added absurdity is that this is a flashback episode, so we assume all seven of them are remembering all of the exact same moments between Jeff and Annie, along with close ups and the same Sara Bareillis song, as each other. The depth to that show is insane, and I think that's one example of many, that could prove Community's PostPost/MetaModernism.
I think the commentary on Let's chips also plays into the postmodern theme of the show, considering they're in EVERYTHING.
I think one of the best examples of the postmodernist narrative in community is the theme of romance, not only in the episode "Romantic Expressionism" with the weird and creepy looks at the end, but also in the series as a whole. It seems to take the romantic interrelationships that drive the plot of most sitcoms and pokes fun at it through things like the characters not caring when they find out who's sleeping together.
I really appreciate the tie to and break down of pomo here. Community is by far my favorite sitcom, partly because it is hilarious and also because of this exploration of expectation, and I think it is more than just a performance of disinterest. Even within pastiche episodes, Community asks us to identify with and see the complexity in each character/situation serving the particular pastiche as well as the season's story arc. It is not simply "us laughing at them" (cough* Big Bang Theory).
Community is just amazing at showing how even though we put ourselves, and each other into categories (religion, lifestyle, etc) you really cannot define someone by these categories. Being an Atheist doesn't mean we hate religion and being a nerd doesn't mean we're bad at sports.
je t'aime tellement pour avoir fait une vidéo pareille sur community! merci
I love the constant post-modern references throughout the video.
This show is amazing! Been watching the first season and it is absolutely astounding! Thank you!
This video made me think about the Adventure Time video you made, and how we like Adventure Time because of the nostalgic-ness of the show. I think I like Community for similar reasons. It mirrors how I look back on Meta-narratives now. It takes these already established "story-norms" we learned from the tv and movies we watched as a kid and adds a splash of cynicism (which is something naturally acquired by simply growing up). Maybe this is why people can relate to Community so well.
I don't think I've ever read so long a comment before, but now I have a new book to find, thank you.
Great episode! Community carefully challenges the common tropes, relationships, ideologies, and mindsets of our society. When does post-modern critique become the norm that then get's critiqued by post-modern art?
Also, after 'Herstory of Dance', Community is totally back on track. #4SeasonsandaMovie
you killed it, dude. community is now a show about community.
I read it! Thanks for this comment and for a reasoned disagreement; I have a response but it's too big to fit here so I'll definitely have something to say about this at the end of next week's video. Have an awesome weekend! :D
I kind of always saw it like the average dad vs the average step dad. The dad isn't always the best dad, but he tries his best to teach you and help you grow. The step dad, in trying to impress you and make you like him, he throws goodies your way and doesn't exactly let you earn your gifts.
Even though subscription isn't a meta-narrative, the idea that I should only reject meta-narratives is a meta-narrative (one I've chosen to reject in fact) so I could reject subscription. As RUclips's subscription interface gets closer to "here is what our AI thinks you should watch" and further from "here are your subscriptions these ones have updates you haven't seen", I continue to consider doing just that. However subscribing does seem to be a feedback mechanism by which I can let creators know I like their stuff and the world seems to be a loss right now for both a decent RSS reader and a decent way to get RSS feeds from RUclips Channels so I'll conform for now.
Oh wow never even noticed that was an S&S poster. I kind of want one now.
My whole shebang with the whole situation is that community is not the only show that employs meta narratives and self-referential post-modernist yadda yadda yadda, but it is the only one that does so *lovingly*, and in doing so, holds up a mirror to the audience reminding them that yes, the narratives we use to construct reality may be light as air, but we still keep coming back to them because they make us happy. A show about a make-shift dysfunctional family makes us very happy.
I knew this show was streets ahead!
I think Community isn't trying to hard to be anything. Watching it I just feel that everything comes from a really organic place. It may be post modern but it isn't all intellectual it has some real heart to it as well. That's why I love it.