I was 16 in 78 and I think I wore this album out that first summer. I can still smell my friend's basement where we could hear it at a decent volume. What a landmark in my youth it was. Thanks for demystifying yet another Genesis intricacy for me.
Fantastic exploration of a killer song. I was distraught when Steve left Genesis but this was the song which kept me on the Genesis journey. Great work , Johan . You understand the exquisite musical tensions of Genesis. Thankyou from Ireland.
It's one of their classic album openers, and for me probably the best song on the album. It hooked me straight away when I first heard it back in the early 80's. I hired the cassette from the local library and didn't know much about Genesis at the time. I was about 14. I've always counted it as 5/4. It was this song, Mama (which was in the charts at the time) and Dance on a Volcano that confirmed me as a lifelong fan of the band. I then discovered the Gabriel era stuff and concluded that between 1970 and and 1980 they didn't really put a foot wrong.
Nothing shows how strangely this track hits the listener than a test pressing of this LP, where the tester wrote in pen "Cut 1 sounds like it skips. It's actually part of the song"
AS a Genesis fan since 1971, when I first heard Trespass I bought each Genesis album on day of release . I was 22 when 'And then there were three' was released. It took some getting used to with yet another member leaving but the opening track certainly had quite an immediate impact on me. Thank you for your analysis of the structure of this very hard hitting opening track.
Hi, so you are a little older than me. I was 14-15 when I first heard Genesis. It was 1977 -78, and the album was Seconds Out. I was immediately hooked. After that, I discovered lots of prog bands, but few -- if any -- have meant so much to me as Genesis.
@johansteenslandmusic3699 yes indeed. Genesis was not well known back in '71. My friend and I saw a small review announcing the release of Trespass. Neither of us even knew that Genesis existed at that point, but the review was well written. We went to our local record shop. In those days in the UK, you could listen to records in record booths . . .the music was so unlike anything around at the time and so wonderful. The rest is history. 😊
If people really want to "feel" this odd time signature, grasp it physically, it's best to do it with as few words as possible. I've never gotten far when I tried to explain, for example, the 7/8 segments of Cinema Show or the supposedly simple 7/4 workout in Linda Ronstadt's "Get Closer." It's best to use very few words and as few verbal precursors as you can get away with. Here's a couple of guys breaking down that utterly impossible gem "Spirits in The Material World" that has baffled everyone. And they knock it all out in less than a minute: ruclips.net/video/PMrXN-rPnOo/видео.html&ab_channel=RichieCastellano
belin, tutte le volte che sento down and out rimango impressionato da che capolavoro di musica, batteria e tastiere anche, energia, testi fortissimi e crudi. Un capolavoro di una stella morente. ormai una luce di una stella scomparsa che vediamo e sentiamo ancora..(bella questa 🤣🤣🤣) per ultima ho sentito che i testi oltre segnarsi una nuova e triste storia per loro fossero anche indirizzati in maniera ironica alla dipartita e al saluto del grande Steve.. e ci sta tutto.....
This song totally floored me too the first time hearing it! Yes has a great catalog like Genesis or you could do some newer bands like Fates Warning,Savatage,Dream Theater, Vanden Plas, Spock's Beard, or Marillion.
Yes, many have asked me about this one. Hopefully I will get the time to do it. Right now I am working on promoting my concept album Crossfade: johansteenslandmusic.com/crossfade
@@johansteenslandmusic3699 will investigate! I wanted to your analyses - speaking as a prog loving classical pro - are really insightful. I went back to other bits I'd taken for granted and reassessed them for fun. I've nailed Bank's solo in Robbery Assault and Battery to alternating 7/8:3/4 Just a thing for the future: how do Genesis make it all sound more cohesive and unfussy in a way (just my view) Yes and King Crimson never quite manage? Thanks again
Anything from this album, anything off the duke or abacab albums...Genesis made many great albums...this is 1 very complicated but so simple at the same time 👏👏👏
@@johansteenslandmusic36995/5 doesn't exist, obviously! Seriously, I strongly suggest you take this, and all your other videos, down - just embarrassing!
"It never deviates from that". Here we go again. In the first place, you state that the song never changes from 5/4. Well it clearly goes to 4/4 in the "right between the eyes" section. But how do you come up with your counting of the keyboard intro? What makes you think it is in 5/4, and what makes you think the chords play on the "2"? What makes you think the keyboard, playing by itself with nothing else is being counted at all, much less in 5/4? To me he is softly and slowly playing with no real specific tempo, just playing. How in the world do you come up with 5/4 and playing on the "2" for the intro keyboard playing by itself?
Hey, Robert! You are right regarding the 5/4. I realised my mistake, and put a big note in the video correcting me (perhaps you missed that). But I am happy you spotted the mistake - -good catch! When it comes to the intro: Since there is no explicit pulse, it is hard to say exactly what's going on. However, if you extrapolate from the first verse and backwards, everything falls into place if you break it down the way I do in the video. That said, my way is ONE way to explain it, one way that I think makes sense, one way that let's Genesis fans think of the track, understand it and play it. My goal is to be helpful. I often come back to this mind-set in my videos.
@@johansteenslandmusic3699 i can kinda see how you could count back from verse and get that. Again, having a little fun, the main thing is we agree on one of the most important groups of men ever to assemble together to create such an amazing sound and vibe, as in Genesis
Supposedly Firth of Fifth has the lowest recorded bass note at the time it was recorded. Rutherford-most underated bass player in rock. You realize that sometimes the band is playing in different time than the drummer and they meet at the end of the measure.
If it’s the lowest bass note ever recorded, it’s most likely played on the bass pedals, not the bass guitar. Also, FFS, enough with the underrated nonsense. Rutherford has always been acknowledged as a great bassist.
@@gabbleratchet1890 It is played on the bass pedals - Mike played no bass guitar on this song - but it is not the lowest note ever recorded! It's a D. The opening bass pedal notes in, e.g. Behind the Lines are a C. And totally agree with the 'underrated' garbage - another idiot who doesn't understand what the adjective means...
The sheet music that was published at the time this album was released has this song as follows: Intro 8 measures of 4/4 (strings), 6 measures of 5/4 (guitar enters), 1 measure of 4/4, 1 measure of 5/4 (instead of 8 measures of 5/4, which would make more sense but would be less typical of Genesis!) Verses 5/4 all the way Chorus 4/4 all the way Coda/Outro (immediately following the last chorus) 6 measures of 4/4 12 measures of 3/4
Interesting! Do you know who's responsible for that sheet? There are of course alternative ways to count the intro, and I can see how one could make those numbers work after the guitar enters. However, those numbers do not align with my view of what's going on. Hold my beer, I'll just call Phill and ask him. Oh, I forgot, I don' know him :-)
Check out my own prog music here: ruclips.net/p/PL_U3NccJSuComtLr-cf6lw6-tKvtBk7KC
I was 16 in 78 and I think I wore this album out that first summer. I can still smell my friend's basement where we could hear it at a decent volume. What a landmark in my youth it was. Thanks for demystifying yet another Genesis intricacy for me.
@@pthomas36 Then you are one year wiser than me :-) Welcome to the channel!
Fantastic exploration of a killer song. I was distraught when Steve left Genesis but this was the song which kept me on the Genesis journey. Great work , Johan . You understand the exquisite musical tensions of Genesis. Thankyou from Ireland.
Thanks, man
It's one of their classic album openers, and for me probably the best song on the album. It hooked me straight away when I first heard it back in the early 80's. I hired the cassette from the local library and didn't know much about Genesis at the time. I was about 14. I've always counted it as 5/4. It was this song, Mama (which was in the charts at the time) and Dance on a Volcano that confirmed me as a lifelong fan of the band. I then discovered the Gabriel era stuff and concluded that between 1970 and and 1980 they didn't really put a foot wrong.
Agree to a point, there's a few songs that I would find it hard to pick a favorite on. 😄
Nothing shows how strangely this track hits the listener than a test pressing of this LP, where the tester wrote in pen "Cut 1 sounds like it skips. It's actually part of the song"
Great comment!
A really good explanation. I now understand better what is going on here. It's such a stimulating feast for the ears.
AS a Genesis fan since 1971, when I first heard Trespass I bought each Genesis album on day of release . I was 22 when 'And then there were three' was released. It took some getting used to with yet another member leaving but the opening track certainly had quite an immediate impact on me. Thank you for your analysis of the structure of this very hard hitting opening track.
Hi, so you are a little older than me. I was 14-15 when I first heard Genesis. It was 1977 -78, and the album was Seconds Out. I was immediately hooked. After that, I discovered lots of prog bands, but few -- if any -- have meant so much to me as Genesis.
@johansteenslandmusic3699 yes indeed. Genesis was not well known back in '71. My friend and I saw a small review announcing the release of Trespass. Neither of us even knew that Genesis existed at that point, but the review was well written. We went to our local record shop. In those days in the UK, you could listen to records in record booths . . .the music was so unlike anything around at the time and so wonderful. The rest is history. 😊
"This song is in 5/4. It never deviates from that."
Apart from the choruses, obviously, which are in 4/4...
Thanks, Mark! You are right. I realised my mistake, and put a big note in the video correcting me. But I am happy you spotted the mistake--good catch!
If people really want to "feel" this odd time signature, grasp it physically, it's best to do it with as few words as possible. I've never gotten far when I tried to explain, for example, the 7/8 segments of Cinema Show or the supposedly simple 7/4 workout in Linda Ronstadt's "Get Closer." It's best to use very few words and as few verbal precursors as you can get away with.
Here's a couple of guys breaking down that utterly impossible gem "Spirits in The Material World" that has baffled everyone. And they knock it all out in less than a minute: ruclips.net/video/PMrXN-rPnOo/видео.html&ab_channel=RichieCastellano
"As few words as possible -- but not fewer". That's a great quote from a great mind.
belin, tutte le volte che sento down and out rimango impressionato da che capolavoro di musica, batteria e tastiere anche, energia, testi fortissimi e crudi. Un capolavoro di una stella morente. ormai una luce di una stella scomparsa che vediamo e sentiamo ancora..(bella questa 🤣🤣🤣) per ultima ho sentito che i testi oltre segnarsi una nuova e triste storia per loro fossero anche indirizzati in maniera ironica alla dipartita e al saluto del grande Steve.. e ci sta tutto.....
Thanks for your comment, Maranzio! Because I don't know Italian, I used Google translate :-)
@@johansteenslandmusic3699 It worked ok!!!
This song totally floored me too the first time hearing it! Yes has a great catalog like Genesis or you could do some newer bands like Fates Warning,Savatage,Dream Theater, Vanden Plas, Spock's Beard, or Marillion.
Battle of Epping Forest. You'll need a long explanation, it's so dense.
Yes, many have asked me about this one. Hopefully I will get the time to do it. Right now I am working on promoting my concept album Crossfade: johansteenslandmusic.com/crossfade
@@johansteenslandmusic3699 will investigate! I wanted to your analyses - speaking as a prog loving classical pro - are really insightful. I went back to other bits I'd taken for granted and reassessed them for fun. I've nailed Bank's solo in Robbery Assault and Battery to alternating 7/8:3/4
Just a thing for the future: how do Genesis make it all sound more cohesive and unfussy in a way (just my view) Yes and King Crimson never quite manage?
Thanks again
@@johansteenslandmusic3699
Typo from me: wanted to say...
15 myself in '78. And Then There Were Three was a phenomenal album.
Cool, we're the same age, then!
Listen to Feel The Cross - Magellan.
The entire song of Down-and-Out is not in 5/4 the chorus or bridge whichever you want to call it is in 4/4
You are absolutely right, Ken!
Thanks for this, Johan - I've now subscribed after watching your Apocalypse in 9/8 video, then this one - hoping to find more Genesis stuff!!! 🙂
Welcome to the channel, Kenny! Lots of Genesis here :-)
Yeah it's the guy who called you out on the "Watcher of the Skies" counting.
Fun. I like it with the "brutal" guitars
Is there any particular song you want me to do next?
Anything from this album, anything off the duke or abacab albums...Genesis made many great albums...this is 1 very complicated but so simple at the same time 👏👏👏
I thought it was in 10/8 The end of the phrase seems to be after 10, not 5. Am I wrong?
Well, 10/8 and 5/5 is basically the same. It's a matter of how you think of it. So, no, you are not wrong :-)
@@johansteenslandmusic3699 :-)
@@johansteenslandmusic36995/5 doesn't exist, obviously! Seriously, I strongly suggest you take this, and all your other videos, down - just embarrassing!
@@markrae1317 Of course 5/5 does not exist. Forgive a typo? 😀
"It never deviates from that". Here we go again. In the first place, you state that the song never changes from 5/4. Well it clearly goes to 4/4 in the "right between the eyes" section. But how do you come up with your counting of the keyboard intro? What makes you think it is in 5/4, and what makes you think the chords play on the "2"? What makes you think the keyboard, playing by itself with nothing else is being counted at all, much less in 5/4? To me he is softly and slowly playing with no real specific tempo, just playing. How in the world do you come up with 5/4 and playing on the "2" for the intro keyboard playing by itself?
Hey, Robert! You are right regarding the 5/4. I realised my mistake, and put a big note in the video correcting me (perhaps you missed that). But I am happy you spotted the mistake - -good catch! When it comes to the intro: Since there is no explicit pulse, it is hard to say exactly what's going on. However, if you extrapolate from the first verse and backwards, everything falls into place if you break it down the way I do in the video. That said, my way is ONE way to explain it, one way that I think makes sense, one way that let's Genesis fans think of the track, understand it and play it. My goal is to be helpful. I often come back to this mind-set in my videos.
@@johansteenslandmusic3699 i can kinda see how you could count back from verse and get that. Again, having a little fun, the main thing is we agree on one of the most important groups of men ever to assemble together to create such an amazing sound and vibe, as in Genesis
Supposedly Firth of Fifth has the lowest recorded bass note at the time it was recorded. Rutherford-most underated bass player in rock. You realize that sometimes the band is playing in different time than the drummer and they meet at the end of the measure.
Cool, I will try to find that bass note. And yes, Genesis were masters at that!
What nonsense! Mike Rutherford is not underrated in the slightest!
If it’s the lowest bass note ever recorded, it’s most likely played on the bass pedals, not the bass guitar. Also, FFS, enough with the underrated nonsense. Rutherford has always been acknowledged as a great bassist.
@@gabbleratchet1890 It is played on the bass pedals - Mike played no bass guitar on this song - but it is not the lowest note ever recorded! It's a D. The opening bass pedal notes in, e.g. Behind the Lines are a C. And totally agree with the 'underrated' garbage - another idiot who doesn't understand what the adjective means...
and your third intro chord seems to be missing a note
Your intro-chords played in your DAW are not right and are not the chords played by Tony!
The sheet music that was published at the time this album was released has this song as follows:
Intro
8 measures of 4/4 (strings), 6 measures of 5/4 (guitar enters), 1 measure of 4/4, 1 measure of 5/4 (instead of 8 measures of 5/4, which would make more sense but would be less typical of Genesis!)
Verses
5/4 all the way
Chorus
4/4 all the way
Coda/Outro (immediately following the last chorus)
6 measures of 4/4
12 measures of 3/4
Interesting! Do you know who's responsible for that sheet? There are of course alternative ways to count the intro, and I can see how one could make those numbers work after the guitar enters. However, those numbers do not align with my view of what's going on. Hold my beer, I'll just call Phill and ask him. Oh, I forgot, I don' know him :-)
It's in 10/4 I believe