Awesome engineering. I don't think some people understand how the challenges mount up when you scale something up so much. It was great to see it at SMRRF and an honour to meet Maks, who is rightfully proud of what Voron Design has achieved to date.
Would be interesting to see what impact the parked tool head has on speeds, quality and input shaper. Especially since you have the extra load on opposite ends of the axis depending on what tool head you’re using
I've come to terms with the truth that I'm not at all interested in actually *building* a printer, but man do I love seeing the cleverness Voron puts into their machines. The Phoenix even offers capabilites I'd actually use! Well, perhaps this will inspire manufacturers on the "it just works" side to put out something comparable.
"perhaps" sounds a bit funny when you look at Bambu Lab or the Creality K1. They already "got inspired" very, very much by Voron so they definitely copy it!
@@hassosigbjoernson5738 K1 is, I think, less inspired by Voron than it is by the X1C. There's a lineage, but saying the K1 is inspired by the Vorons is like saying Star Wars was inspired by John Ford. There's a connexion, but there's also intervening steps. The X1C is, of course, a (very successful) attempt to create a commercial printer with performance and functionality similar to the Voron 2. I'm fine with that, because I love my X1C and it doesn't actually copy anything in the Voron design itself - Voron didn't invent CoreXY after all. But just because Voron inspired Bambu once doesn't mean they will again. And so, "perhaps" is the best word after all. :)
Calling Voron an experience for "everyone" is a very good joke. Normies don't give a crap about open source, they want something that work out of the box. Voron is the antithesis of that.
@@hypnoz7871 You didn't under stand it ... or you read something out of it that you wanted to read?! "for everyone to experience" simply means it's accessible for everyone via open source! Everyone can download the BOM and parts. Everyone can build one. *This supposes - of course - that these persons WANT to experience that!* It say's nothing about the level of experience. So I was never talking about "Normies" ... which is wrong to say in the first place because many "normal" people already build one - without a degree in rocket science or a master's in engineering. I was talking about the people that are interested in it. - Every other consumption is whataboutism. People who "just want a tool" still can buy Prusa, Bambu Lab, Sovol SV07/08, Creality K1c or whatever. A new Voron project always contributes to the community (and the companies!) and never takes something away (behind a pay wall or closed source wall). That's the big difference especially to Bambu Lab. Which is okay.
Wait are you telling me there is a new tap and cw2 on the way? I am currently in the middle of rebuilding my printhead with the current tap and the new igida from bondtech
I'm really looking forward to some trickle-down. I upgraded my ERCF to Blinky, so I have a free encoder. People have previously added ERCF encoders to Klipper machines, but I would love official support for a runout sensor for my V2s. That wiper might make an excellent supported addition to V2, as debris on the nozzle sometimes causes poor Z homing. Given the added wobble, I also was very negative about TAP initially, but I would like to see the improved rails (maybe less weight, too?)
Dang it.. why only 2 heads? So many voron projects with 2.4 350x350 showing 4/5/6 head changers now, and the ProForge 4 with 4 heads.. we need to see more heads and tool changer over just IDEX. IDEX is ok.. but you want at least 3 heads to have to materials + support material (e..g the stuff that is easy to wash away). But multiple heads/nozzles/temps is clearly the way forward.. especially if the tool change aparatus is rock solid (and built like a tank to last).
Alright, this looks amazing...now the big question? How much this is going to cost, does anyone have a rough estimate? So I can start saving money right now.
Very interested in some of the new features, and especially if LDO does kits for 350 bed sizes, as 600 is a wee-bit too large. :) I think 300 to 350 is the sweet spot right now.
Is it actually core xy or core xy hybrid like the tridex (cartesian y axis, x axis follows core xy kinematics)? Im asking because i have only seen 2 belts in front of the x axis rail
Been keeping my eye on Voron designs for a while now, not much peaked my interest. The Phoenix looks right up my alley ! I am looking forward to the release. I better wrap up some projects and clear off the build table.
I don't get people's love for TAP over something as simple as a strain-gage on the hotend mount. Both have the same hassle that the nozzle has to be clean, but I just think the strain-gage mount would be less complex and could also provide useful measurements during printing. It would basically be a TAP-equivalent with minimal Z-travel, no? Also ... those Voron printheads now seem large and heavy compared to Bambulab or Creality K1 assemblies (and that's without TAP). Does that not have negative impact on speed and quality? Sometimes I get the feeling Voron is on the "more" side while everyone's starting to realize that "less is more". I'm just a noob, but would love to have some more technical explanations on why some things are designed as they are and debates on whether that is the correct decision. Ex. Does the flying gantry of the 2.4 (and apparently the Phoenix) have any significant advantage? Isn't moving the (relatively stable) bed up and down less hassle than keeping a gantry steady while experiencing lots of forces from x and y movements? Isn't the ability of hanging an extra blower at fixed height better than requiring all cooling to come from the print-heads? Don't get me wrong: 1) I'm a newbie and hence whatever I'm saying is likely wrong and 2) I do think Vorons have been and are pushing 3d printing forwards, but ... I would really love some videos going in-depth on the pros and cons of some design decisions of various printers (Vorons and others) and pitching those decisions against eachother.
Are you aware of a strain-gauge mount for the Stealthburner? That's the issue. If it existed, it would sell like hotcakes. I used a Duet Smart Effector for years (strain gauge direct probe) and it was amazing.
@@bradleychilds4492 Why? The beds only need to be moved in Z and with lead-screws even the weight of 4 beds would be peanuts to move up and down. Whereas the flying gantry with (4?) XY (or AB) motors attached will likely weigh more than those 4 beds. The AC voltage of the beds might be a good excuse, but even there a decent cable chain would still make moving the bed up and down better in my eyes. But as said, getting some videos discussing the pro and cons of each solution would be great ...
@@MisterkeTubeNot about the weight, but the logistics of it. Moving 4 beds up and down is easy sure, but moving the up and down AND keeping them perfectly aligned at all times sounds like more hassle than it's worth. In this case the extra weight on the gantry is the lesser of two evils. Like you said, less is more and moving 4 beds just adds unnecessary complexity.
@@pbbarntt I don't see how alignment of the beds can be the issue as those would be mounted fixed onto a frame that you are moving up and down. Once installed on that frame their alignment would be fixed. I would expect that you mount them fixed where the 4 beds touch and allow the beds to expand to the outside when being heated. Anyhow, any such alignment problem has to be dealt with exactly the same whether the frame they are mounted to is fixed on the bottom or is moved up and down. But a flying gantry has forces from the moving printhead pushing it in all directions and despite linear rails that shaking gantry will vibrate more from this than if it was fixed solidly to the frame. Anyway, I appreciate the input - as said, I just think their should be more videos discussing these choices in depth. Everything will have pros and cons and just showing the options and their pros and cons in detail would be nice. Not only for "flying gantry or not", but there's als "pom wheels or metal ones", "lead screws, ball screws or belts", "multiple extruders on 1 head or IDEX", "corexy vs delta vs cartesian vs croxy" ... but not just glancing over things, getting into the nitty gritty details!
Wow... That's too expensive. For 5k you can get the PrusaXL with 5 tool heads I think? I build a 350mm Voron 2.4r2 and 600mm would not cost this much more....
Epic, glad to see this since I think it means there is a lot of hope for IDEX Bambu machines in the future. They clearly borrowed a lot of ideas from Voron already.
i mean, that was litterally the very first print off the machine, it was shipped to the event semi assembled, wired up the day before, and flashed the FW and config on it (thats not yet finished btw) on the show floor lol
Well for starters they no longer use numbers. V2 and V0 are the only ones still using numbers for now all others will be names. But given it's heritage is V24 predated V2.0, naming it's successor v3 wouldn't really follow.
So they still use this weak flexible gantry and weak 20x20 profile structure...Well, at least they got rid off belts on Z axis. Next they should get rid of moving gantry, use stiffer profile and, maybe, Voron finally become good and really fast printer. Still very expensive, but, at least, faster than bedslingers.
Love it! Glad to see an official IDEX in the Voron ecosystem now. Can't wait to see it in person!
Awesome engineering. I don't think some people understand how the challenges mount up when you scale something up so much. It was great to see it at SMRRF and an honour to meet Maks, who is rightfully proud of what Voron Design has achieved to date.
I have a v2r2 350mm. Adding a second tool head is something I will do for sure if there is a official support for it.
Would be interesting to see what impact the parked tool head has on speeds, quality and input shaper. Especially since you have the extra load on opposite ends of the axis depending on what tool head you’re using
I've come to terms with the truth that I'm not at all interested in actually *building* a printer, but man do I love seeing the cleverness Voron puts into their machines. The Phoenix even offers capabilites I'd actually use! Well, perhaps this will inspire manufacturers on the "it just works" side to put out something comparable.
"perhaps" sounds a bit funny when you look at Bambu Lab or the Creality K1. They already "got inspired" very, very much by Voron so they definitely copy it!
@@hassosigbjoernson5738 K1 is, I think, less inspired by Voron than it is by the X1C. There's a lineage, but saying the K1 is inspired by the Vorons is like saying Star Wars was inspired by John Ford. There's a connexion, but there's also intervening steps.
The X1C is, of course, a (very successful) attempt to create a commercial printer with performance and functionality similar to the Voron 2. I'm fine with that, because I love my X1C and it doesn't actually copy anything in the Voron design itself - Voron didn't invent CoreXY after all.
But just because Voron inspired Bambu once doesn't mean they will again. And so, "perhaps" is the best word after all. :)
Official lead or ball screw mod for V2.4 R2. And IDEX. That would be fun
Awesome! No closed source BS (hello Bambu Lab)! No limitations (hello Creality!). Just engineering at peak level for everyone to experience.
Calling Voron an experience for "everyone" is a very good joke.
Normies don't give a crap about open source, they want something that work out of the box.
Voron is the antithesis of that.
@@hypnoz7871 You didn't under stand it ... or you read something out of it that you wanted to read?!
"for everyone to experience" simply means it's accessible for everyone via open source! Everyone can download the BOM and parts. Everyone can build one. *This supposes - of course - that these persons WANT to experience that!* It say's nothing about the level of experience.
So I was never talking about "Normies" ... which is wrong to say in the first place because many "normal" people already build one - without a degree in rocket science or a master's in engineering. I was talking about the people that are interested in it. - Every other consumption is whataboutism.
People who "just want a tool" still can buy Prusa, Bambu Lab, Sovol SV07/08, Creality K1c or whatever.
A new Voron project always contributes to the community (and the companies!) and never takes something away (behind a pay wall or closed source wall). That's the big difference especially to Bambu Lab. Which is okay.
**pulls out tape measure**
I mean, I guess I don't neeeed a stove
I cant wait to build one of these. I was going to build a ratrig for the 500mm+ itch ive been having but ill just wait for this
Who gonna want this monster?
I'll be a kit beta tester, Jason. 😂
Me. IF I get a green flag from my SO.....
Not really. Where to put it? I don't have the space for such a big printer. Living in a 50m^2 apartment. 😂
Oh yes! I do have the space for Phoenix.
"Want" is a very big word. Not sure i have the room for a 600 on the side printer, so I will keep daydreaming about a 300-350 tridex ;)
That electronic bay is sexy as hell!
So... Is this project dead? Nothing on github. No new videos from anyone.
11 days until the end of 2024's first half and counting...
Wait are you telling me there is a new tap and cw2 on the way? I am currently in the middle of rebuilding my printhead with the current tap and the new igida from bondtech
I'm really looking forward to some trickle-down. I upgraded my ERCF to Blinky, so I have a free encoder. People have previously added ERCF encoders to Klipper machines, but I would love official support for a runout sensor for my V2s. That wiper might make an excellent supported addition to V2, as debris on the nozzle sometimes causes poor Z homing. Given the added wobble, I also was very negative about TAP initially, but I would like to see the improved rails (maybe less weight, too?)
Do we know if this will also come in different sizes too ? 600mm is a bit overkill for my needs but a 400 would be great?
Once the design/bom/manul/cad etc is out you can build it however big you want
Dang it.. why only 2 heads? So many voron projects with 2.4 350x350 showing 4/5/6 head changers now, and the ProForge 4 with 4 heads.. we need to see more heads and tool changer over just IDEX. IDEX is ok.. but you want at least 3 heads to have to materials + support material (e..g the stuff that is easy to wash away). But multiple heads/nozzles/temps is clearly the way forward.. especially if the tool change aparatus is rock solid (and built like a tank to last).
Hope LDO will release an Upgrade Kit for the Classic Voron 2.4 350. IDEX Support will be Amazing and boosts the Voron Ecosystem
Filament runout! It's about time!
Alright, this looks amazing...now the big question? How much this is going to cost, does anyone have a rough estimate? So I can start saving money right now.
6:43 Almost the end of the first half
Very interested in some of the new features, and especially if LDO does kits for 350 bed sizes, as 600 is a wee-bit too large. :)
I think 300 to 350 is the sweet spot right now.
Idex voron means klipper/slicers better support for idex printers. As owner of a cheap sovol sv04, I'm happy.
(My brain when he accidentally said thx) Tap now with a better sounding Klick
Ahh tease... If I had known I would have waited instead of starting a 2.4 build for my large format printer... lol.
my favorite part is the filiment sensor in the tool head!! i currently have mine on the back of my v2.4 so there still 2/3ish meter when it runs out
why not belts for Z. im sure using 10mm belts would hold weight properly
Ok I got lazy buying bambu stuff but this settles it: I need to build a voron.
Is it actually core xy or core xy hybrid like the tridex (cartesian y axis, x axis follows core xy kinematics)? Im asking because i have only seen 2 belts in front of the x axis rail
I need to finish my v2.4 r1 been over a year now. Lol
Looks great, can't wait for the release!
Been keeping my eye on Voron designs for a while now, not much peaked my interest. The Phoenix looks right up my alley ! I am looking forward to the release. I better wrap up some projects and clear off the build table.
I want one but I’ll wait until they release it for a while and get the bugs out.
In a way, I kinda want to adapt this dual tool head mechanism into a 2.4 lol
Ercf with no delays??
This is huge in multiple ways. I guess one could still build it tinier.
I don't get people's love for TAP over something as simple as a strain-gage on the hotend mount. Both have the same hassle that the nozzle has to be clean, but I just think the strain-gage mount would be less complex and could also provide useful measurements during printing. It would basically be a TAP-equivalent with minimal Z-travel, no? Also ... those Voron printheads now seem large and heavy compared to Bambulab or Creality K1 assemblies (and that's without TAP). Does that not have negative impact on speed and quality? Sometimes I get the feeling Voron is on the "more" side while everyone's starting to realize that "less is more". I'm just a noob, but would love to have some more technical explanations on why some things are designed as they are and debates on whether that is the correct decision. Ex. Does the flying gantry of the 2.4 (and apparently the Phoenix) have any significant advantage? Isn't moving the (relatively stable) bed up and down less hassle than keeping a gantry steady while experiencing lots of forces from x and y movements? Isn't the ability of hanging an extra blower at fixed height better than requiring all cooling to come from the print-heads? Don't get me wrong: 1) I'm a newbie and hence whatever I'm saying is likely wrong and 2) I do think Vorons have been and are pushing 3d printing forwards, but ... I would really love some videos going in-depth on the pros and cons of some design decisions of various printers (Vorons and others) and pitching those decisions against eachother.
Are you aware of a strain-gauge mount for the Stealthburner? That's the issue. If it existed, it would sell like hotcakes. I used a Duet Smart Effector for years (strain gauge direct probe) and it was amazing.
I imagine specifically with the phoenix moving around just the gantry as opposed to moving 4 separate heated beds makes more sense
@@bradleychilds4492 Why? The beds only need to be moved in Z and with lead-screws even the weight of 4 beds would be peanuts to move up and down. Whereas the flying gantry with (4?) XY (or AB) motors attached will likely weigh more than those 4 beds. The AC voltage of the beds might be a good excuse, but even there a decent cable chain would still make moving the bed up and down better in my eyes. But as said, getting some videos discussing the pro and cons of each solution would be great ...
@@MisterkeTubeNot about the weight, but the logistics of it. Moving 4 beds up and down is easy sure, but moving the up and down AND keeping them perfectly aligned at all times sounds like more hassle than it's worth. In this case the extra weight on the gantry is the lesser of two evils.
Like you said, less is more and moving 4 beds just adds unnecessary complexity.
@@pbbarntt I don't see how alignment of the beds can be the issue as those would be mounted fixed onto a frame that you are moving up and down. Once installed on that frame their alignment would be fixed. I would expect that you mount them fixed where the 4 beds touch and allow the beds to expand to the outside when being heated. Anyhow, any such alignment problem has to be dealt with exactly the same whether the frame they are mounted to is fixed on the bottom or is moved up and down. But a flying gantry has forces from the moving printhead pushing it in all directions and despite linear rails that shaking gantry will vibrate more from this than if it was fixed solidly to the frame. Anyway, I appreciate the input - as said, I just think their should be more videos discussing these choices in depth. Everything will have pros and cons and just showing the options and their pros and cons in detail would be nice. Not only for "flying gantry or not", but there's als "pom wheels or metal ones", "lead screws, ball screws or belts", "multiple extruders on 1 head or IDEX", "corexy vs delta vs cartesian vs croxy" ... but not just glancing over things, getting into the nitty gritty details!
I hope they come out with smaller versions like 400mm and 500mm
I’d love to build one of these!
them 4 ball dogs are going to cost a bit lol
I need a voron 0.2 but idex
Good, I have some time to clear a space for it 😅
This will be my 1st voron
Yaaaas more IDEX!!!
What are the speeds that can be achieved by this lovely machine?
It'll do a meter a second move easily.
NEED
Looks veeery nice, I'm curious about the price tag though... 3k? 4k? All in all...
Hmm 2-3k for the kit probably is my guess.
4 heaters, 2 tools heads, custom controller board and the enclosure looked custom too.
At SMMRF they mentioned a kit would come up to 5K
Wow... That's too expensive.
For 5k you can get the PrusaXL with 5 tool heads I think?
I build a 350mm Voron 2.4r2 and 600mm would not cost this much more....
Eleegoo giga is cheaper and larger.
Sweet!
Noice!
Lead screws and not belts?
Ballscrews
@@CanuckCreator *Ballscrews and not belts? Why not belts like the Voron 2.4's?
Simply due to the size and weight of the large gantry, belts actually WOULD work, but ballscrews just suit this usecase better in actual use
@@CanuckCreator I see. Reason I ask is because I am building a custom printer and originally planned for belts, but now I am second guessing it.
Awesome!!!
👍👍👍
Where klipper screen
In the front (and disabled so random people on the show floor couldnt mess with anything)
@@CanuckCreator Yeah I saw where it is and that it just had the console on it.
Makes sense.
Epic, glad to see this since I think it means there is a lot of hope for IDEX Bambu machines in the future. They clearly borrowed a lot of ideas from Voron already.
will we have an upgrade path from v2.4 to this one?
Can’t tell if joke or not 🙃
The hardware and software used for 2 tool heads should be compatible to a V2.
You will lose quite a bit of the build plate in x as a trade of.
The only thing you would reuse is half your toolhead, maybe your pi.
And even with all of that the print quality didn’t look that great.
i mean, that was litterally the very first print off the machine, it was shipped to the event semi assembled, wired up the day before, and flashed the FW and config on it (thats not yet finished btw) on the show floor lol
Why not call it the Voron 3 or something that makes sense among the line?
Well for starters they no longer use numbers. V2 and V0 are the only ones still using numbers for now all others will be names. But given it's heritage is V24 predated V2.0, naming it's successor v3 wouldn't really follow.
Because its voron phoenix
So they still use this weak flexible gantry and weak 20x20 profile structure...Well, at least they got rid off belts on Z axis. Next they should get rid of moving gantry, use stiffer profile and, maybe, Voron finally become good and really fast printer. Still very expensive, but, at least, faster than bedslingers.
TBH, It doesn't really matter when a kit come out for this thing, I'll still not be able to afford it by then!