Glad to hear you're feeling better, and great to have you back. A nice meaty video with a lot of food for thought. I have some very half baked thoughts on this, informed over the years by a lot of diverse and interesting opinions. Let me think about it a bit more and maybe we could have an open discussion, maybe even make a video out of it!
I´d love to hear your comments - half baked or ready. I'm first and foremost after the discussion rather than the truth. Opinions are much more fun to debate over than facts🙃 And if you are suggesting co-op or such I'm in! In fact I have an idea for a larger multi-channel co-op video but I think it´d require a channel with more prestige than mine to handle it. I had you in mind to host it. I might drop you a message soon. My channels email is almostenoughcomics@gmail.com
Great topic. I recently comment on the The Hardcover Comic exactly the same subject refering to a small choice of European comics published in the USA, both in print and digital. As an european my consuming habits have been, since childhood, the larger album format wich is, for obvious reasons, a more suitable format for comic reading an consumption. The USA market is formatted for the regular magazine size consumption, an habit inherited from the age of newsstand selling and distribution. This form of distribution “forced” most of the publishers to conform to more compact and cheaper format. It’s also a way of keeping local artists and writers a continuous source of income and keeping important character lines in print continuously, specially in the major labels. Of course this doesn’t mean that all publishers work like that, but the larger format is more often “reserved” to the limited and much more expensive Deluxe/omnibus an library editions, an important source of income to several publishers.
You are right about the business behind comics. In the end it is business - even in Europe - and creators have to eat. USA having different business model produces different end results. I think it’s OK if it works for them. But I do find myself frustrated when European albums are shrinked down for US market. Americans often re-package foreign entertainment - even English language movies and TV-series are completely re-done(like The Office) to please the audience. Again, if it works for them it’s OK. Having said that, shrinking albums and great graphics means less enjoyment for readers. This is also why there is so much misinformed comments about albums as many readers dont have actual real life experience with them. And those who do read European Comics have only trade paperbag size to choose from. Ah! This subject gets me ranting:) Best we can do is what you did and keep commenting and reminding readers about the European way of doing and enjoying comics.
I live in Montréal. I am Lucky i can find any BD original format. Hard cover it's really the best format. 1 and best raison, it for reading and looking at. 2 No digital way of reading can beat printing. For reading à BD you have to move your attention from à case To another. And it's really important for this art. 3 searching for an album is a lot easier in a store or in your own shel with hard cover.
I visited Montreal in 90´s! It was a couple days business trip. I still remember when I visited a comic book store there. The selection was like a treasure for me. At the same time it was very painful as all comics that I was interested in were in French😅And they were all in hardcover! I think it may have been the first time that I saw European albums in hardcover. Big culture shock! I absolutely agree on the digital format. I´ve tried it quite many times. It´s always less fun than reading physical copies. Your point of having to concentrate on that is a good one! Finding and arranging hardcover albums is much easier. But I´ve been reading the softcovers since 70´s so I don´t really think about it. It´s just something that is integral part of my life really. I think it´s the same with Marvel/DC single issues too. If you are used to them then it´s OK and if not, then handling those floppies can be slow and cumbersome.
I suppose another odd one out - along with the UK, but for completely different reasons - is Italy. Our standard comic book format is the Bonelli one. Bonelli is the mainstream publisher in Italy - a sort of DC & Marvel all in one, as it doesn't really have competitors - and their format originates from their own comic strips. Basically, when it came time (and economic possibility) to collect their strips (Tex, a western, was their most popular one), they created a page out of three strips one on top of the other. And that's what we call "albo" (album) Bonelli. It's 100 pages (covers included), 21x16cm. Black and white. You can find all kinds of colors and formats today, but that's still the Bonelli standard, and other publishers of popular (meaning mainstream, sold in newsstands) comics have long since adopted the same format. The Franco-Belgian album has always existed alongside the Bonelli one, but it's always been for "prestige" comics: better paper, better binding, much higher cost. French, Belgian, Argentinians and Italian cartoonists working in those markets (Hugo Pratt, for instance) are associated with the Franco-Belgian format. Monthly newsstand "adventure" comics, with the Bonelli one. Sorry for the too many words.
Never apologize for many words on this channel:) Words are what the comment section is here for! And your detailed specs of Bonelli format is very interesting. I´m always fascinated of local views of different markets. This also underlines how vast and diverse area Europe is for comics. So many cultures. I don´t remember ever helding an Italian language Bonelli in my hands but Tex Willer is often published in Finnish in that format. I see that more often these days. Usually Tex Willers were smaller pocketbook size but I think they upgraded size to keep collectors interested. Tex Willer is quite popular among collectors here.
Just found your channel. I bought a french comic in a charity shop yesterday, and really like the artwork. Now I want to understand more about it. Thank you
Welcome to channel - and into European Comics too:)You can ask questions about your comic here too. Not sure if I’m able to help though. French comics is a massive platform. And now I’m intrigued myself what that comic you bought was!
@@analogcomics It's called "Quelques pas vers la lumière" - My french is a bit rusty, but I still want to find time to give it a shot. I really enjoy the artwork, it's a relief from some of the weak art comics I've been reading recently
@@JoeGrimer I think that is a series by Bruno Marchand. I know this creator because he´s done Little Nemo with Moebius who is my all time favorite artist. I checked some photos of this comic and the art is superb! Something I´d enjoy too. I couldnt find this series available in english:( But if you´re familiar with french language you have the key to Treasure Room! So many gems in the French Comic Vault...Enjoy!
In Serbia there are hardcover and softcover from the same publisher at the same time. In Croatia there a re soft or hardcover depending of the publisher. Softcover in Serbia are usually seen as a magazine so the cover page is different and there is more stress on the name of the edition. In the inner side of cover in soft edition there is some preface. In the hardcover there is no such thing. Today, albums not so common. Usually albums are printed in integrals, with three or four (sometimes more) albums in the same hardcover with longer preface. As Croatian comics are available in Serbia, you can chose the format you like. Different picture in the cover page is very popular so the same publisher makes the same album with several cover pages, an you can choose. This is mostly for Italian comics and in pocket editions but it starts to merge with albums, as the same comics are published in the both formats and as Italian comics are the most popular comics in former Yugoslav countries, so they are treated equally as Franco-Belgian. The original cover page is usually published ad A cover and is largely distributed. B, C, and sometimes more covers are made by Serbian or Croatian authors, in lesser number of copies but with greater collection value.
I can see how the geographical location would favor Italian comics in your area. Interesting how there is a business for variant covers. You don't see that often in Europe. Do you know if collectors buy many copies of the same comics to get all variant covers?
Blueberry integrals are really well done. Just a month ago I got myself the last story arc in two integrals as the single albums were sold out. For me the best value in these collections are the extras and at least in these two Blueberry integrals they were really interesting. It´s sad that Blueberry is no longer available in english. Such an epic saga.
I'm in the USA and LOVE the album format, but it's always disappointing when I hear about a BD album getting a release in English and it turns out to be in a much smaller size than the standard 'Grand Format'. The art cannot be truly appreciated at that size. Fortunately, I read Spanish and can find lots of great European series in Spanish printed at the right size.
Although having European comics translated to english in any format is better than not having them at all, it is always a disappointment to see them smaller than original. Knowing Spanish language is a super power I´d take any day!
The Albums were published in the 70s and 80s in Germany as softcovers and only a few ones were additionaly published in hardcover, they are rare. I think since the late 90s French/Belgian comics are only published in hardcover format. German made comics are also often publishd in paperback format, like the Werner Comics in the 80s and 90s.
Quite the same in Finland. I’ve grown so used to softcover albums that even if given opportunity to change the big classics like Asterix into hardcover for free - I would keep my softcovers. With more recent comics I would not be so stubborn😊
Thanks for your insight I want to have my comic as an European album format 24x 32 cm to hold 9 panels comfortably per page with breathing room. Watchmen Graphic Novel managed on a smaller size and maximized the look on those limitations. Borders are thin. Omnibus and Absolute sizes in the US 22x28 cm are becoming desirable collectors editions in the US. Watchmen being ~450 pages Black Sad a highly detailed comic, crossed over to the US market on Dark Horse and its collection is 184 pages, A4 dimensions ~21x30 cm I’m not an expert on this but it seems that the desire for larger formats in the US for a premium collection are making the disparity of sizes get closer. I’m curious to if wider format movies/tv, and media being more mixed in current times could influence wider panels as a result. Foremost the release of comics weekly/monthly vs yearly result in better fitting dimensions, so it’s not too flimsy to hold if not a hard cover. It seems a lot of the market today even if more printing options are available, if created for a more mature audience is to do web comics or a complete chapter/novel/season collection release at once. So I foresee more of the larger formats and more pages in the US. Very simple art styles may benefit better to be landscape or smaller in size. But I came here to add this, Donald Duck Album, Artist Carl Barks. Wanted to share it here as I also didn’t know he was the created of so many beloved comics ruclips.net/video/twzAQcF7HdI/видео.htmlsi=p23pYFa0os37T2F9
Just saw part 2 glad how it overlaps with my comments, being in the US since the 2000s. Enjoyed seeing those very large versions. We don’t get those easily, unfortunately. Exception I saw was Batman year one Artist Edition. 35cm X 53 cm
I watched matttt's Barks video when it came out. Really good. I also spent a long time reading comments of that video. They highlight how forgotten and unfamiliar Duck comics are in US market. In Europe most people know Ducks & Barks. Most people of my generation knows the name of Carl Barks as we all learnt how to read through his stories. I find it fascinating how Disney comics withered in their home market while becoming one of the strongest IPs in Europe. I was happy to get your view&take on album format vs others. At the moment I am in process of updating my gear and haven't made videos for awhile. I will be back once I get my new setup working.
UK has literally been its own island among European Comics. There hasn´t been a lot exchange between UK and the rest of the Europe. This is unfortunate as it also means that most of the European comics are not automatically translated to english.
It's a slightly odd format here in the US. But I'm not even sure exactly what the format is. I assumed it meant a typical album was about 50 pages, and the pages were a standard size. But The Killing Joke in its "deluxe" format is as tall as an album, but not as wide as I assumed an album should be. It has the proportions of a US floppy. Can it be called an album? These days DC also publishes a line of hardcovers (like Harleen) that are as tall as an album but about 1 cm wider. I like the European album size, but I can't think of any American comics published this way. In this country, comics are published in every size imaginable, but the 50 page album, 20.5 x 27.5 cm, is very rare except for translations. I just compared a couple of albums I have - Blacksad is wider than I assumed was the norm. So I suppose the format is not fixed? Since this format is French, I assumed it was probably standardized in law by the French republic, lol. But maybe I'm wrong.
Your thinking is flowing very much like mine on this issue and you are already VERY close on topics I’ll talk about in Part 2. So I’ll stay obscure on purpose until it comes out. But that comment on French and page size in law made me spill out my coffee😄
I just discoverd your channel. Really intersting. I have a douted on your comment on ISBN apparition. Thé creation of the ISBN standar appear in 70'. It was not for a raison of "reconaissance". Bande dessinée / comics still always ( and still ) have a low art réputation.
Welcome to the channel. And I really appreciate your immediate activity! Having these conversations is the best part for me😊 ISBN numbering is not relevant for customers(readers) but BD albums getting into that system is a clear indication that comic book and sales industry was waking up to the potential of this particular format. Something that was before considered as disposable became a more focused market. ISBN numbering was not driving the sales, it was an indication of it. I think reputation is a good word when talking about comics as art. Like in any art form(music, painting, movies etc.) there are really good ones and bad ones. The really good ones from 9th Art of comics usually reach people far less than other art forms. And if you think about it most of all people have been comics readers at some point(usually as children) in their life. Then they grow out of it as they are not exposed to more suitable content as they grow up. I strongly believe that the reputation and valuations of comics will never go up unless we - the passionate readers - don´t value the art form first. This is why I absolutely love the fact that French people - even those that are not comics readers - dont´see this art form just as something for children, or childish adults. It´s not perfect situation but still far better than in most countries.
Morris/Lucky Luke case was quite a bad long term decision from Dupuis. Printing one of their most successful series in softcover meant less money for Morris and it also signaled less respect towards him. Swap to Dargaud/Pilote changed Lucky Luke content too. Pilotes focus on older audience brought more guns and fights to Lucky Luke stories. Dupuis really dropped the ball with Morris. You're comment has a fitting timing as I'm just planning my next video that'll touch(though very lightly) Morris/Lucky Luke😊
hmm. weird that there would be an argument about not enough story in 48 or 64 pages. US comics are 32 pages, with adds. the story itself only has about 22 pages. So, are they saying ther eis not enough tory in thier own comics? to tell a bigger story they spread it over 2-3 or more comics, making the pagecount higher then the european comics. There were also small pocketbooks like the donald duck but from Marvel. I know they were published at least in Germany and the Netherlands. The other difference is the page size. In the USA they shrink down the drawings to fit thier smaller size.
Thanks for your comments Axel. They made me think this a bit further. I think the "not enough content"-comments derive from cultural difference. As most of US readers are not truly familiar with European comics content they consider the page count through US content. Many story arcs are build to produce a Trade Paperback(4-6 issues) which later turn into massive Omnibus. I´m not deeply informed over Superhero comics and to me they feel "emptier" in content, like a thinner soup. There are many full page(or spread) images that look good but also at the same time eat away space from story telling - which is why 48 pages just couldn´t do it well. Euro comics feel like a thicker soup to me in that sense - which allows keeping the story in 48 pages. This is not to say which is better. Just two ways to tell a story. Shrinking down from European Album to US comics is the worst thing. No one wins there. European comic looses right there its identity and marketability as a European Comic. Reader gets graphics designed for bigger panels shrank down, at worst loosing the impact and details making reader wonder what´s the big fuss about European Comics is all about.
Belgian Flemish comics have always been published as softcovers and there is no indication that this will change soon. I have been reading trough a few recent Donald Duck pocketbooks and their stories are still based on an American background.
@@flitsertheo Softcover seems to be the main solution in Finland too. Sales are down so publishers rather keep books cheaper. About Duck stories: Do you mean those stories were made in USA? I haven’t followed the content of new pocketbooks for a long time but I’m pretty sure most of it still comes from some European country.
It might be the best if they used all that space, but they don’t. Only on the cover. With very rare exceptions. I prefer manga. Turning a lot of pages gives a sense of progress.
Hey, don't cut the essay like this.Two parts wasn't strictly necessary, but you have to create a cliffhanger for the next part. Just me saying... About the european format, I must say that's mainly a french thing. Probably because they created the market, that's probably was the reason why everybody else adopted. But nowadays there's so much more variety of formats, depending on the publishers.
I had no intention to split the video originally but It turned out longer than I had planned. I feel people don’t like long videos and I always end up making them such:) I guess I’m a bit neurotic about it. It’s true that selection of formats has grown a lot. I’d still like to see albums keep their original form when translated to english. More about this thought on Part 2.
Comic Books are a waste of space and really outdated old age technology ( of course that's just my opinion). The reason why I say so , is because the digital medium is far superior to "paper" , although you many not get the feel of reading in paper. The digital medium does "justice" to the art , as you can zoom in and see in full glory , plus its easy to carry around. And the other benefit is that it does not impose restrictions like in paper , you can create a comic however long that you want , in all its glory. It's like playing a music in a cassette vs in your phone. Sure the cassette was a "prestigious" medium , like the vinyl ; but its outdated.
I absolutely love to hear other readers opinions! Your comment has such a strangely perfect timing that it is spooky. I was just browsing through digital comics selection available online! And I almost never do that. My channel isn´t called Analog Comics by accident😄I feel like you caught me doing something naughty. This is a very interesting subject and I have been rolling ideas about it for a video. And just one minute before I read your comment I was thinking how much less I enjoyed reading digital comics vs analog. I do have quite extensive collection of digital comics but I almost never go back to read them. I don´t see printed form as outdated technology rather than just a different user interface. And that just gives a different user experience. But when it comes to physical storage space digital wins by a light year.
@@analogcomics I am not against Print medium , it just so happens that the digital is far better. Have you seen the "Michael Moorcock's Elric Boxed Set (4 volumes starting from ruby throne) " by the French authors " Blondel, Polio Recht, Bastide" . The art is simply outstanding , and it's a pleasure to view it in digital.
@@rajasekharanvichattu4287 I have not seen that box set yet but I will take a look at them now that you mentioned it. I’m easy prey for recommendations. For me the digicomics biggest strenght is availability. I was recommended The Black Moon Chronicle earlier which is only available in english as digi. The art looks stunning. There are tons of interesting comics that are only available in digi - unless I learn french by accident and really fast:)
I like both ways of reading, but find print to be a much more enjoyable experience. It's not even close. Having said that, digital certainly has its advantages. You can carry hundreds of digital items with you, they don't take up space at home, and yeah, being able to zoom in on the art (provided the image is of high enough resolution) is pretty darned nice. Also, sometimes the colors on print copies leave much to be desired. I own three integral volumes of Barbarroja (Barbe-Rouge) that are printed on matte paper, the blacks look more like grays.
@@joxer96 Printed vs Digi is one subject I´d like to turn into video. Both have their pros and cons - and fans. I´m still very much on the side of printed works but I don´t shy away from digi either.
@@analogcomics no, I don't understand Finnish - even though it would be cool and I would like to shout along with some radiopuhelimet-songs. And yes there are tons of different "Killing Jokes" in German and English in different sizes (there's an absolute edition in particular). I guess you haven't seen my video about my "killing joke"-collection... it's probably the weirdest part of my collection, I even have an oversized version in Norwegian (thanks to a friend of my channel).
@@earlgrey862 I watched that video now…Wow! I absolutely LOVE it when people fuss this much about anything. Fussing is the best time of your life. Now I understand you even better. I know local comic book store Kulkukatin Poika sells this book on its website for 15€. That place only sells comics translated to Finnish. For me that book/story isn’t that important. I may even consider sending my copy to you. I’m pretty sure I bought this book all those years ago because of Bollands art(not Batman)which I found through Judge Dredd. You seem to be quite deep into Batman. What is your top 3? Just in case I decide to expand my 3 book Batman collection. If you like Radiopuhelimet check out Sielun Veljet. To my ear they have common things going on. Sielun Veljet is very tribal, raw and even shamanistic. I like them a lot.
@@earlgrey862 You mentioned that Witz means joke. Joke in finnish is vitsi! It’s clearly a ”street language” word taken from Germany year ago but today it’s official language here.
@@analogcomics yes, "witzig" is the adjective (=funny)... probably derived in some way from the english "wit" or vice versa, because when someone is "gewitzt" or "Witz hat" it means, that he's clever... has wits. As to the finnish Killing Joke: your offer is verynice, thank you! but obviously I'm not in such a terrible need of that book 😁... but if you can't get a book in Finland which is probably for sale here: please feel free to ask! I would be glad to help. As to Batman: haven't decided about my top three actually and finally (the killing joke actually wouldn't be in it)... today I would say Long Halloween (actually all the comics drawn by Tim Sale), Year One and Arkham Asylum, but it's not set in stone (and have you seen the rip off "dream of the bat" by Josh Simmons and Patrick Keck?) ... and I'm groovin along while writing to Peltirumpu right now (thank you)... have to look for my CDRs with Radiopuhelimet though... nothing like a lot of finnish Umlaut-noise to get some energy for clearing up my space here.
Glad to hear you're feeling better, and great to have you back. A nice meaty video with a lot of food for thought. I have some very half baked thoughts on this, informed over the years by a lot of diverse and interesting opinions. Let me think about it a bit more and maybe we could have an open discussion, maybe even make a video out of it!
I´d love to hear your comments - half baked or ready. I'm first and foremost after the discussion rather than the truth. Opinions are much more fun to debate over than facts🙃
And if you are suggesting co-op or such I'm in! In fact I have an idea for a larger multi-channel co-op video but I think it´d require a channel with more prestige than mine to handle it. I had you in mind to host it. I might drop you a message soon.
My channels email is almostenoughcomics@gmail.com
Great topic. I recently comment on the The Hardcover Comic exactly the same subject refering to a small choice of European comics published in the USA, both in print and digital. As an european my consuming habits have been, since childhood, the larger album format wich is, for obvious reasons, a more suitable format for comic reading an consumption. The USA market is formatted for the regular magazine size consumption, an habit inherited from the age of newsstand selling and distribution. This form of distribution “forced” most of the publishers to conform to more compact and cheaper format. It’s also a way of keeping local artists and writers a continuous source of income and keeping important character lines in print continuously, specially in the major labels. Of course this doesn’t mean that all publishers work like that, but the larger format is more often “reserved” to the limited and much more expensive Deluxe/omnibus an library editions, an important source of income to several publishers.
You are right about the business behind comics. In the end it is business - even in Europe - and creators have to eat. USA having different business model produces different end results. I think it’s OK if it works for them. But I do find myself frustrated when European albums are shrinked down for US market. Americans often re-package foreign entertainment - even English language movies and TV-series are completely re-done(like The Office) to please the audience. Again, if it works for them it’s OK. Having said that, shrinking albums and great graphics means less enjoyment for readers. This is also why there is so much misinformed comments about albums as many readers dont have actual real life experience with them. And those who do read European Comics have only trade paperbag size to choose from.
Ah! This subject gets me ranting:) Best we can do is what you did and keep commenting and reminding readers about the European way of doing and enjoying comics.
I live in Montréal. I am Lucky i can find any BD original format.
Hard cover it's really the best format. 1 and best raison, it for reading and looking at.
2 No digital way of reading can beat printing. For reading à BD you have to move your attention from à case To another. And it's really important for this art.
3 searching for an album is a lot easier in a store or in your own shel with hard cover.
I visited Montreal in 90´s! It was a couple days business trip. I still remember when I visited a comic book store there. The selection was like a treasure for me. At the same time it was very painful as all comics that I was interested in were in French😅And they were all in hardcover! I think it may have been the first time that I saw European albums in hardcover. Big culture shock!
I absolutely agree on the digital format. I´ve tried it quite many times. It´s always less fun than reading physical copies. Your point of having to concentrate on that is a good one!
Finding and arranging hardcover albums is much easier. But I´ve been reading the softcovers since 70´s so I don´t really think about it. It´s just something that is integral part of my life really. I think it´s the same with Marvel/DC single issues too. If you are used to them then it´s OK and if not, then handling those floppies can be slow and cumbersome.
I suppose another odd one out - along with the UK, but for completely different reasons - is Italy. Our standard comic book format is the Bonelli one. Bonelli is the mainstream publisher in Italy - a sort of DC & Marvel all in one, as it doesn't really have competitors - and their format originates from their own comic strips. Basically, when it came time (and economic possibility) to collect their strips (Tex, a western, was their most popular one), they created a page out of three strips one on top of the other. And that's what we call "albo" (album) Bonelli.
It's 100 pages (covers included), 21x16cm. Black and white. You can find all kinds of colors and formats today, but that's still the Bonelli standard, and other publishers of popular (meaning mainstream, sold in newsstands) comics have long since adopted the same format.
The Franco-Belgian album has always existed alongside the Bonelli one, but it's always been for "prestige" comics: better paper, better binding, much higher cost. French, Belgian, Argentinians and Italian cartoonists working in those markets (Hugo Pratt, for instance) are associated with the Franco-Belgian format. Monthly newsstand "adventure" comics, with the Bonelli one.
Sorry for the too many words.
Never apologize for many words on this channel:) Words are what the comment section is here for!
And your detailed specs of Bonelli format is very interesting. I´m always fascinated of local views of different markets. This also underlines how vast and diverse area Europe is for comics. So many cultures. I don´t remember ever helding an Italian language Bonelli in my hands but Tex Willer is often published in Finnish in that format. I see that more often these days. Usually Tex Willers were smaller pocketbook size but I think they upgraded size to keep collectors interested. Tex Willer is quite popular among collectors here.
Just found your channel. I bought a french comic in a charity shop yesterday, and really like the artwork. Now I want to understand more about it. Thank you
Welcome to channel - and into European Comics too:)You can ask questions about your comic here too. Not sure if I’m able to help though. French comics is a massive platform. And now I’m intrigued myself what that comic you bought was!
@@analogcomics It's called "Quelques pas vers la lumière" - My french is a bit rusty, but I still want to find time to give it a shot. I really enjoy the artwork, it's a relief from some of the weak art comics I've been reading recently
@@JoeGrimer I think that is a series by Bruno Marchand. I know this creator because he´s done Little Nemo with Moebius who is my all time favorite artist. I checked some photos of this comic and the art is superb! Something I´d enjoy too. I couldnt find this series available in english:( But if you´re familiar with french language you have the key to Treasure Room! So many gems in the French Comic Vault...Enjoy!
Is there anyone from outside of Europe reading and liking the Album format?
Absolutely! It's tough going back to standard American sized comics after such a great reading experience.
I'm from South Africa and mainly read European and Japanese comics
In Serbia there are hardcover and softcover from the same publisher at the same time. In Croatia there a re soft or hardcover depending of the publisher. Softcover in Serbia are usually seen as a magazine so the cover page is different and there is more stress on the name of the edition. In the inner side of cover in soft edition there is some preface. In the hardcover there is no such thing. Today, albums not so common. Usually albums are printed in integrals, with three or four (sometimes more) albums in the same hardcover with longer preface. As Croatian comics are available in Serbia, you can chose the format you like. Different picture in the cover page is very popular so the same publisher makes the same album with several cover pages, an you can choose. This is mostly for Italian comics and in pocket editions but it starts to merge with albums, as the same comics are published in the both formats and as Italian comics are the most popular comics in former Yugoslav countries, so they are treated equally as Franco-Belgian. The original cover page is usually published ad A cover and is largely distributed. B, C, and sometimes more covers are made by Serbian or Croatian authors, in lesser number of copies but with greater collection value.
I can see how the geographical location would favor Italian comics in your area. Interesting how there is a business for variant covers. You don't see that often in Europe. Do you know if collectors buy many copies of the same comics to get all variant covers?
Love the European omnibus called Integraal. Like the Blueberry ones
Blueberry integrals are really well done. Just a month ago I got myself the last story arc in two integrals as the single albums were sold out. For me the best value in these collections are the extras and at least in these two Blueberry integrals they were really interesting.
It´s sad that Blueberry is no longer available in english. Such an epic saga.
Yes, integral is a hard cover album with usually two or three adventures in one book. Looks great on the shelf. 👍
I'm in the USA and LOVE the album format, but it's always disappointing when I hear about a BD album getting a release in English and it turns out to be in a much smaller size than the standard 'Grand Format'. The art cannot be truly appreciated at that size. Fortunately, I read Spanish and can find lots of great European series in Spanish printed at the right size.
Although having European comics translated to english in any format is better than not having them at all, it is always a disappointment to see them smaller than original.
Knowing Spanish language is a super power I´d take any day!
The Albums were published in the 70s and 80s in Germany as softcovers and only a few ones were additionaly published in hardcover, they are rare. I think since the late 90s French/Belgian comics are only published in hardcover format. German made comics are also often publishd in paperback format, like the Werner Comics in the 80s and 90s.
Quite the same in Finland. I’ve grown so used to softcover albums that even if given opportunity to change the big classics like Asterix into hardcover for free - I would keep my softcovers. With more recent comics I would not be so stubborn😊
Thanks for your insight I want to have my comic as an European album format 24x 32 cm to hold 9 panels comfortably per page with breathing room.
Watchmen Graphic Novel managed on a smaller size and maximized the look on those limitations. Borders are thin.
Omnibus and Absolute sizes in the US 22x28 cm are becoming desirable collectors editions in the US. Watchmen being ~450 pages
Black Sad a highly detailed comic, crossed over to the US market on Dark Horse and its collection is 184 pages, A4 dimensions ~21x30 cm
I’m not an expert on this but it seems that the desire for larger formats in the US for a premium collection are making the disparity of sizes get closer. I’m curious to if wider format movies/tv, and media being more mixed in current times could influence wider panels as a result. Foremost the release of comics weekly/monthly vs yearly result in better fitting dimensions, so it’s not too flimsy to hold if not a hard cover.
It seems a lot of the market today even if more printing options are available, if created for a more mature audience is to do web comics or a complete chapter/novel/season collection release at once. So I foresee more of the larger formats and more pages in the US.
Very simple art styles may benefit better to be landscape or smaller in size.
But I came here to add this,
Donald Duck Album, Artist
Carl Barks. Wanted to share it here as I also didn’t know he was the created of so many beloved comics
ruclips.net/video/twzAQcF7HdI/видео.htmlsi=p23pYFa0os37T2F9
Just saw part 2 glad how it overlaps with my comments, being in the US since the 2000s. Enjoyed seeing those very large versions. We don’t get those easily, unfortunately. Exception I saw was Batman year one Artist Edition. 35cm X 53 cm
I watched matttt's Barks video when it came out. Really good. I also spent a long time reading comments of that video. They highlight how forgotten and unfamiliar Duck comics are in US market. In Europe most people know Ducks & Barks. Most people of my generation knows the name of Carl Barks as we all learnt how to read through his stories. I find it fascinating how Disney comics withered in their home market while becoming one of the strongest IPs in Europe.
I was happy to get your view&take on album format vs others.
At the moment I am in process of updating my gear and haven't made videos for awhile. I will be back once I get my new setup working.
These books are very interested I've always been interested in British comics such as Captain Britain number one and marvel very cool
UK has literally been its own island among European Comics. There hasn´t been a lot exchange between UK and the rest of the Europe. This is unfortunate as it also means that most of the European comics are not automatically translated to english.
It's a slightly odd format here in the US. But I'm not even sure exactly what the format is. I assumed it meant a typical album was about 50 pages, and the pages were a standard size. But The Killing Joke in its "deluxe" format is as tall as an album, but not as wide as I assumed an album should be. It has the proportions of a US floppy. Can it be called an album? These days DC also publishes a line of hardcovers (like Harleen) that are as tall as an album but about 1 cm wider.
I like the European album size, but I can't think of any American comics published this way. In this country, comics are published in every size imaginable, but the 50 page album, 20.5 x 27.5 cm, is very rare except for translations.
I just compared a couple of albums I have - Blacksad is wider than I assumed was the norm. So I suppose the format is not fixed?
Since this format is French, I assumed it was probably standardized in law by the French republic, lol. But maybe I'm wrong.
Your thinking is flowing very much like mine on this issue and you are already VERY close on topics I’ll talk about in Part 2. So I’ll stay obscure on purpose until it comes out. But that comment on French and page size in law made me spill out my coffee😄
I just discoverd your channel. Really intersting.
I have a douted on your comment on ISBN apparition.
Thé creation of the ISBN standar appear in 70'. It was not for a raison of "reconaissance".
Bande dessinée / comics still always ( and still ) have a low art réputation.
Welcome to the channel. And I really appreciate your immediate activity! Having these conversations is the best part for me😊
ISBN numbering is not relevant for customers(readers) but BD albums getting into that system is a clear indication that comic book and sales industry was waking up to the potential of this particular format. Something that was before considered as disposable became a more focused market. ISBN numbering was not driving the sales, it was an indication of it.
I think reputation is a good word when talking about comics as art. Like in any art form(music, painting, movies etc.) there are really good ones and bad ones. The really good ones from 9th Art of comics usually reach people far less than other art forms. And if you think about it most of all people have been comics readers at some point(usually as children) in their life. Then they grow out of it as they are not exposed to more suitable content as they grow up. I strongly believe that the reputation and valuations of comics will never go up unless we - the passionate readers - don´t value the art form first. This is why I absolutely love the fact that French people - even those that are not comics readers - dont´see this art form just as something for children, or childish adults. It´s not perfect situation but still far better than in most countries.
Soft cover BD were common in France until the early 80s, I think. IIRC Morris left Dupuis because they wouldn't print Lucky Luke hardcover books.
Morris/Lucky Luke case was quite a bad long term decision from Dupuis. Printing one of their most successful series in softcover meant less money for Morris and it also signaled less respect towards him. Swap to Dargaud/Pilote changed Lucky Luke content too. Pilotes focus on older audience brought more guns and fights to Lucky Luke stories. Dupuis really dropped the ball with Morris.
You're comment has a fitting timing as I'm just planning my next video that'll touch(though very lightly) Morris/Lucky Luke😊
hmm. weird that there would be an argument about not enough story in 48 or 64 pages. US comics are 32 pages, with adds. the story itself only has about 22 pages. So, are they saying ther eis not enough tory in thier own comics? to tell a bigger story they spread it over 2-3 or more comics, making the pagecount higher then the european comics.
There were also small pocketbooks like the donald duck but from Marvel. I know they were published at least in Germany and the Netherlands.
The other difference is the page size. In the USA they shrink down the drawings to fit thier smaller size.
Thanks for your comments Axel. They made me think this a bit further. I think the "not enough content"-comments derive from cultural difference. As most of US readers are not truly familiar with European comics content they consider the page count through US content. Many story arcs are build to produce a Trade Paperback(4-6 issues) which later turn into massive Omnibus. I´m not deeply informed over Superhero comics and to me they feel "emptier" in content, like a thinner soup. There are many full page(or spread) images that look good but also at the same time eat away space from story telling - which is why 48 pages just couldn´t do it well. Euro comics feel like a thicker soup to me in that sense - which allows keeping the story in 48 pages. This is not to say which is better. Just two ways to tell a story.
Shrinking down from European Album to US comics is the worst thing. No one wins there. European comic looses right there its identity and marketability as a European Comic. Reader gets graphics designed for bigger panels shrank down, at worst loosing the impact and details making reader wonder what´s the big fuss about European Comics is all about.
Belgian Flemish comics have always been published as softcovers and there is no indication that this will change soon.
I have been reading trough a few recent Donald Duck pocketbooks and their stories are still based on an American background.
@@flitsertheo Softcover seems to be the main solution in Finland too. Sales are down so publishers rather keep books cheaper.
About Duck stories: Do you mean those stories were made in USA? I haven’t followed the content of new pocketbooks for a long time but I’m pretty sure most of it still comes from some European country.
It might be the best if they used all that space, but they don’t. Only on the cover. With very rare exceptions. I prefer manga. Turning a lot of pages gives a sense of progress.
nice cliffhanger
😜With my editing skills timing was a lucky accident.
Because it is better and bigger.
ISBN was not a thing until the 70s actually.
Hey, don't cut the essay like this.Two parts wasn't strictly necessary, but you have to create a cliffhanger for the next part. Just me saying...
About the european format, I must say that's mainly a french thing. Probably because they created the market, that's probably was the reason why everybody else adopted. But nowadays there's so much more variety of formats, depending on the publishers.
I had no intention to split the video originally but It turned out longer than I had planned. I feel people don’t like long videos and I always end up making them such:) I guess I’m a bit neurotic about it.
It’s true that selection of formats has grown a lot. I’d still like to see albums keep their original form when translated to english. More about this thought on Part 2.
Comic Books are a waste of space and really outdated old age technology ( of course that's just my opinion).
The reason why I say so , is because the digital medium is far superior to "paper" , although you many not get the feel of reading in paper.
The digital medium does "justice" to the art , as you can zoom in and see in full glory , plus its easy to carry around.
And the other benefit is that it does not impose restrictions like in paper , you can create a comic however long that you want , in all its glory. It's like playing a music in a cassette vs in your phone. Sure the cassette was a "prestigious" medium , like the vinyl ; but its outdated.
I absolutely love to hear other readers opinions! Your comment has such a strangely perfect timing that it is spooky. I was just browsing through digital comics selection available online! And I almost never do that. My channel isn´t called Analog Comics by accident😄I feel like you caught me doing something naughty.
This is a very interesting subject and I have been rolling ideas about it for a video. And just one minute before I read your comment I was thinking how much less I enjoyed reading digital comics vs analog. I do have quite extensive collection of digital comics but I almost never go back to read them.
I don´t see printed form as outdated technology rather than just a different user interface. And that just gives a different user experience. But when it comes to physical storage space digital wins by a light year.
@@analogcomics I am not against Print medium , it just so happens that the digital is far better. Have you seen the "Michael Moorcock's Elric Boxed Set (4 volumes starting from ruby throne) " by the French authors " Blondel, Polio Recht, Bastide" . The art is simply outstanding , and it's a pleasure to view it in digital.
@@rajasekharanvichattu4287 I have not seen that box set yet but I will take a look at them now that you mentioned it. I’m easy prey for recommendations.
For me the digicomics biggest strenght is availability. I was recommended The Black Moon Chronicle earlier which is only available in english as digi. The art looks stunning. There are tons of interesting comics that are only available in digi - unless I learn french by accident and really fast:)
I like both ways of reading, but find print to be a much more enjoyable experience. It's not even close. Having said that, digital certainly has its advantages. You can carry hundreds of digital items with you, they don't take up space at home, and yeah, being able to zoom in on the art (provided the image is of high enough resolution) is pretty darned nice. Also, sometimes the colors on print copies leave much to be desired. I own three integral volumes of Barbarroja (Barbe-Rouge) that are printed on matte paper, the blacks look more like grays.
@@joxer96 Printed vs Digi is one subject I´d like to turn into video. Both have their pros and cons - and fans. I´m still very much on the side of printed works but I don´t shy away from digi either.
word!
... and just put "tappava pila" into my list of ebay-searches :)
Now you got me intrigued! Do you understand Finnish too? Surely today there must be a larger version of Killing Joke available in english too:)
@@analogcomics no, I don't understand Finnish - even though it would be cool and I would like to shout along with some radiopuhelimet-songs. And yes there are tons of different "Killing Jokes" in German and English in different sizes (there's an absolute edition in particular). I guess you haven't seen my video about my "killing joke"-collection... it's probably the weirdest part of my collection, I even have an oversized version in Norwegian (thanks to a friend of my channel).
@@earlgrey862 I watched that video now…Wow! I absolutely LOVE it when people fuss this much about anything. Fussing is the best time of your life. Now I understand you even better. I know local comic book store Kulkukatin Poika sells this book on its website for 15€. That place only sells comics translated to Finnish. For me that book/story isn’t that important. I may even consider sending my copy to you. I’m pretty sure I bought this book all those years ago because of Bollands art(not Batman)which I found through Judge Dredd.
You seem to be quite deep into Batman. What is your top 3? Just in case I decide to expand my 3 book Batman collection.
If you like Radiopuhelimet check out Sielun Veljet. To my ear they have common things going on. Sielun Veljet is very tribal, raw and even shamanistic. I like them a lot.
@@earlgrey862 You mentioned that Witz means joke. Joke in finnish is vitsi! It’s clearly a ”street language” word taken from Germany year ago but today it’s official language here.
@@analogcomics yes, "witzig" is the adjective (=funny)... probably derived in some way from the english "wit" or vice versa, because when someone is "gewitzt" or "Witz hat" it means, that he's clever... has wits.
As to the finnish Killing Joke: your offer is verynice, thank you! but obviously I'm not in such a terrible need of that book 😁... but if you can't get a book in Finland which is probably for sale here: please feel free to ask! I would be glad to help.
As to Batman: haven't decided about my top three actually and finally (the killing joke actually wouldn't be in it)... today I would say Long Halloween (actually all the comics drawn by Tim Sale), Year One and Arkham Asylum, but it's not set in stone (and have you seen the rip off "dream of the bat" by Josh Simmons and Patrick Keck?)
... and I'm groovin along while writing to Peltirumpu right now (thank you)... have to look for my CDRs with Radiopuhelimet though... nothing like a lot of finnish Umlaut-noise to get some energy for clearing up my space here.