If you are working on old Speakers like that, use breathing masks with filters and old clothes. The glass wool from the 1970s, which was also used as insulation in loudspeakers, contains fibres that are less than 3 µm in length and are therefore not airborne. When I'm working on old speakers like that, the first thing I do is throw out the old insulation and put new one in.
True fact! I remember working on some old speakers where the fibre wool is dust-like and fills the room with clouds of crud. I'd go one further and take the filling out while outdoors so that you dont get it all over your house. Depends on filler type i suppose.
@@peterlarkin762 Yes I also take them outside. I use an air compressor to dust out the chassis as well, Some people would say that is too cautious, but better safe than sorry. I usually replace it with modern harmless polyester wool with excellent damping properties. It should not affect the sound, but it is important to ensure that the insulation is fitted where the original insulation was.
A few months ago I purchased a pair of the Pioneer CS-44s, and I suspect that I paid a lot more than you did for your CS-33As. I purchased them purely for nostalgia purposes - my dad's stereo system had a pair them and I grew up listening to music on them. I plan to do a complete x-over do-over, or maybe just keep the cabinets and install new speakers (the CS-44s have a removable baffle, which makes that very easy to do). But part of me wants to leave them just as they are - they survived 50+ years and still work with all original parts, including the x-over components.
That IS bananas! Literally! 😂… These speakers look amazing, either with or without the grills. Pioneer used fabric surround suspension for ages; I don’t know if they still do on their new speakers, but I remember they still did in their car speakers from the 90s. Sony used that for some speakers in the 90s and they’ve stood the test of time; then they switched to very thick rubber surround material, they looked fantastic, but rot and broke after 5 years or so. Going back to bananas, I thought you were going to mention a possible upgrade from the infamous flat-screen terminals to banana plugs, I would’ve never imagined that was part of what gave the cones such an interesting color 🥰
I am a trained electronic tech. I've repaired hundreds of speakers, many hundreds. We were a Cerwin Vega repair depot. You have done an excellent job explaining in simple terms what is going on. I would comment that the high priced capacitors are generally NOT worth it. The ones you are replacing certainly didn't cost that. This is part of the audiophile myth that includes very expensive speaker wire. Pish Posh I say! Well done, thanks for keeping this old stuff alive. Being old stuff myself.
Another tech here... Let me say that Greg is right on point. There is some value in upping the voltage ratings on these caps but as always, getting ridiculous accomplishes nothing.
Those were the Pioneer speakers I had that I gave to my uncle in 2016. They sounded very good - even when playing modern music. I remember playing Royal Blood's debut and A Tribe Called Quest's reunion album and was amazed at how great they sounded through those Pioneer bookshelf speakers.
Thanks for clearing up that question for me. I have seen speakers like this in thrift shops for years, but really haven't gone for them - I think it's just the aesthetics. I can understand why people like them, they're just not my bag. But back to the point - I always wanted to know what "FB" (I thought it was F8 for the longest time) was all about. It does seem like re-capping a crossover is fairly simple. I really need to teach myself how to properly solder. I have the tools and supplies, but avoid it like the plague because I'm so bad at it If you want to make those "bookshelf" (they seem a bit big for bookshelf speakers - maybe some stands for the floor would be better) speakers really >>POP
Thanks. I love Scott's Liquid Gold. That is the smell of my childhood. Every time we had relatives coming over, my folks would polish the wood furniture with that stuff and the whole house had this wonderful almond smell... which would inevitably be overpowered by whatever was being cooked. It was always a very hopeful smell.
@@AudioThrift Well put a little variety in there. Mash some up and put it on buttered bread for a sandwich (Aussie thing). Trust me it'll blow your mind.
Nice video! BTW, changing the damping material will change the apparent cabinet volume, which can have a considerable effect on the bass. It would be best to simply wear a mask and a long-sleeved shirt, and handle the fiberglass carefully, then put it back where it was. By "handle the fiberglass carefully," I mean move slowly and try not to break the fibers or spread them through the air. Place the fiberglass in a garbage bag while you do the other work, and then carefully put it back.
Dude! Don't let Imposter Syndrome interfere with your work. You are doing a basic repair video about a speaker and that's completely fine. You don't have to tell the planet you are an amateur at anything and you certainly don't need to apologize. Seriously, you are doing better than 99.9% of people who have RUclips accounts. Just look at mine for validation. Keep doing what you are doing with no excuses and apologies because your pace, style and content is as good as the 100k + subscriber channels out there. People come to this channel because of who you are. Stay Metal
I've just had one of my new (well, new to me) Technics SB-X5's from 1978 fail with barely audible, crackling sound. I was dreading getting in there to do this, but it shouldn't be too complex.....hopefully! Thanks for the inspiration!
Neat, I think that retrofitting "expensive" caps isn't only a waste of money but can even be a downgrade... See, those large film caps are much closer to an "ideal" capacitance while electrolytics (especially small value and non polarized ones) are more like they have a significant "resistor" in series with them (ESR) and the curcuit is designed with this resistance in mind - so your tweeter will be too loud, filter slopes will be messed up, if you change that too much, which might or might not be audible.
Would it be possible to add a resistor in series or parallel with the expensive cap and get a result that is closer to the original? Or would that not be worth bothering since the cheaper ones are more ideal anyway?
@@AudioThrift Sure, you could add a few Ohms to the caps. But then the only benefit will be that the caps will last longer. But people don't do that usually, instead they think just putting in more expensive parts without any further mods makes 40 year old, worn out speakers sound better than new. Maybe they think the added treble is the 'improved' sound but the speakers weren't designed to do that and marginally turning up the treble on the amp has just about the same effect. The only way to fundamentally improve the sound of the speakers, if you really wanted to go crazy with it, is doing a complete redesign of the crossover, adding LCR filters and the like, crossovers in the 70s were usually minimalist. It takes a lot of equipment (calibrated mic etc.) and effort. But honestly, I like the "rough around the edges" sound of those old wooden behemoths as is, lol.
@westelaudio943 Makes sense. I mean, if you want modern speaker sound, just buy new speakers. The 70's sound is why I like 70's speakers. :) ...well, and the look.
@@AudioThriftThere's a British guy on here based out of Devon, called Haycross Audio. He rebuilds a bunch of old loudspeaker sets, and he often uses alcap capacitors to replace electrolytics. He also likes metal film resistors instead of those squared sand cast ones.
35 Wat Max.................be careful. Those are a work of Art. Never knew you damaged your hearing, guess I got lucky in that regard. Capacitors life much depends on power going thru it, more power less Life and components in early 70's were not reliable where as late 70's is when it peaked for reliability. So, I find an estate sale with some stereo equipment and they had a cassette deck I wanted something terrible Technics M95, blood suckers on EBAY want 2k for this thing. I phone 9am 1 hour after sale opens to make sure it is there and Vulchers already bought everything.
@@AudioThrift I just Google it and get ones in my area, look at the pictures and see if any stereo eq. I should stop this addiction, have more than I can store + 6 systems set-up in house. By the way like your 1950's decor in you living area.
A lot of vintage stereo equipment have pretty expensive capacitors in them, especially in the power supply. Capacitors can go out of spec just sitting not being used in a fairly short period of time, like 2 years or less. While replacements for the ones in these speakers would be pretty inexpensive, some are not. You can try playing a radio through them (speakers) overnight. This is called re forming. Caps go out of spec fairly quickly from just sitting. So long as they aren't leaking or showing other signs of physical damage, re forming the capacitors is worth trying. It should not take anywhere near overnight, but it cannot really hurt. These old capacitors are much higher quality than you will get in the bag you bought. Also, I would say 1970 is pushing the limits for capacitors. But a lot of this stuff is the 80s. They are low voltage caps in solid state circuits. If they not known to leak, like purple Matsushita caps and are not currently either leaking or showing damage, re forming them is worth trying. Some of these caps, especially in the power supply can cost over 10 Dollars a piece. Also, you might consider buying a variac. Stereos at flea markets, thrift stores and estate sales can have dead shorts in them. A variac will allow you to slowly increase the voltage and limit the current.
That's a good idea. I'll keep an eye out for a variac. Someone's bound to have one lying around in their garage. Still trying to get my hands on an oscilloscope too. The re-forming idea is interesting. I've not heard of that but I'm going to read up on it. How permanent is it if you do that?
@@AudioThrift RUclips keeps deleting my reply to you telling you where to find a video on it. Just search youtube for re forming capacitors. You can also build a dim bulb tester. It's pretty simple and in some ways, even better than a variac.,
That thing is rad! It was less than 20 dollars. I can't post links in the comments but if you search Amazon for "component tester" it should pop up. The only downside is you have to assemble the little acrylic case... and disassemble it to remove/change the battery.
If you are working on old Speakers like that, use breathing masks with filters and old clothes. The glass wool from the 1970s, which was also used as insulation in loudspeakers, contains fibres that are less than 3 µm in length and are therefore not airborne. When I'm working on old speakers like that, the first thing I do is throw out the old insulation and put new one in.
This is very good advice. Pinning this.
True fact! I remember working on some old speakers where the fibre wool is dust-like and fills the room with clouds of crud. I'd go one further and take the filling out while outdoors so that you dont get it all over your house. Depends on filler type i suppose.
@@peterlarkin762 Yes I also take them outside. I use an air compressor to dust out the chassis as well,
Some people would say that is too cautious, but better safe than sorry. I usually replace it with modern harmless polyester wool with excellent damping properties. It should not affect the sound, but it is important to ensure that the insulation is fitted where the original insulation was.
I don't think being "too cautious" is a bad thing.
A few months ago I purchased a pair of the Pioneer CS-44s, and I suspect that I paid a lot more than you did for your CS-33As. I purchased them purely for nostalgia purposes - my dad's stereo system had a pair them and I grew up listening to music on them. I plan to do a complete x-over do-over, or maybe just keep the cabinets and install new speakers (the CS-44s have a removable baffle, which makes that very easy to do). But part of me wants to leave them just as they are - they survived 50+ years and still work with all original parts, including the x-over components.
Either way has its merits for sure but it's fun to do the recap. :)
That IS bananas! Literally! 😂… These speakers look amazing, either with or without the grills. Pioneer used fabric surround suspension for ages; I don’t know if they still do on their new speakers, but I remember they still did in their car speakers from the 90s. Sony used that for some speakers in the 90s and they’ve stood the test of time; then they switched to very thick rubber surround material, they looked fantastic, but rot and broke after 5 years or so. Going back to bananas, I thought you were going to mention a possible upgrade from the infamous flat-screen terminals to banana plugs, I would’ve never imagined that was part of what gave the cones such an interesting color 🥰
I am a trained electronic tech. I've repaired hundreds of speakers, many hundreds. We were a Cerwin Vega repair depot. You have done an excellent job explaining in simple terms what is going on. I would comment that the high priced capacitors are generally NOT worth it. The ones you are replacing certainly didn't cost that. This is part of the audiophile myth that includes very expensive speaker wire. Pish Posh I say! Well done, thanks for keeping this old stuff alive. Being old stuff myself.
Thank you!
Another tech here... Let me say that Greg is right on point.
There is some value in upping the voltage ratings on these caps but as always, getting ridiculous accomplishes nothing.
Those were the Pioneer speakers I had that I gave to my uncle in 2016. They sounded very good - even when playing modern music. I remember playing Royal Blood's debut and A Tribe Called Quest's reunion album and was amazed at how great they sounded through those Pioneer bookshelf speakers.
Man, I bet they sounded good with hip-hop. I only tested them with crunchy metal bands and that's a big difference.
Thanks for clearing up that question for me. I have seen speakers like this in thrift shops for years, but really haven't gone for them - I think it's just the aesthetics. I can understand why people like them, they're just not my bag. But back to the point - I always wanted to know what "FB" (I thought it was F8 for the longest time) was all about.
It does seem like re-capping a crossover is fairly simple. I really need to teach myself how to properly solder. I have the tools and supplies, but avoid it like the plague because I'm so bad at it If you want to make those "bookshelf" (they seem a bit big for bookshelf speakers - maybe some stands for the floor would be better) speakers really >>POP
Thanks. I love Scott's Liquid Gold. That is the smell of my childhood. Every time we had relatives coming over, my folks would polish the wood furniture with that stuff and the whole house had this wonderful almond smell... which would inevitably be overpowered by whatever was being cooked. It was always a very hopeful smell.
This vid is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S! Just dont let George eat all of them.
His contract includes a banana stipend.
@@AudioThrift Well put a little variety in there. Mash some up and put it on buttered bread for a sandwich (Aussie thing). Trust me it'll blow your mind.
Nice video! BTW, changing the damping material will change the apparent cabinet volume, which can have a considerable effect on the bass. It would be best to simply wear a mask and a long-sleeved shirt, and handle the fiberglass carefully, then put it back where it was. By "handle the fiberglass carefully," I mean move slowly and try not to break the fibers or spread them through the air. Place the fiberglass in a garbage bag while you do the other work, and then carefully put it back.
What would you recommend for a different material?
@@AudioThrift Polyfill, if you must change it. The stuff the sell at WalMart to stuff pillows with.
Rad. We actually have a big box of that stuff... I'll keep that in mind.
@@AudioThrift It's what most modern speakers come with from the factory.
Dude! Don't let Imposter Syndrome interfere with your work. You are doing a basic repair video about a speaker and that's completely fine. You don't have to tell the planet you are an amateur at anything and you certainly don't need to apologize. Seriously, you are doing better than 99.9% of people who have RUclips accounts. Just look at mine for validation. Keep doing what you are doing with no excuses and apologies because your pace, style and content is as good as the 100k + subscriber channels out there. People come to this channel because of who you are.
Stay Metal
Thank you, I appreciate that. I just like to be clear about my intentions. And the deafness is a problem... I may have stayed a little too metal... 😆
I've just had one of my new (well, new to me) Technics SB-X5's from 1978 fail with barely audible, crackling sound. I was dreading getting in there to do this, but it shouldn't be too complex.....hopefully! Thanks for the inspiration!
Go for it! It's really easy
Neat, I think that retrofitting "expensive" caps isn't only a waste of money but can even be a downgrade... See, those large film caps are much closer to an "ideal" capacitance while electrolytics (especially small value and non polarized ones) are more like they have a significant "resistor" in series with them (ESR) and the curcuit is designed with this resistance in mind - so your tweeter will be too loud, filter slopes will be messed up, if you change that too much, which might or might not be audible.
Would it be possible to add a resistor in series or parallel with the expensive cap and get a result that is closer to the original? Or would that not be worth bothering since the cheaper ones are more ideal anyway?
@@AudioThrift
Sure, you could add a few Ohms to the caps. But then the only benefit will be that the caps will last longer. But people don't do that usually, instead they think just putting in more expensive parts without any further mods makes 40 year old, worn out speakers sound better than new. Maybe they think the added treble is the 'improved' sound but the speakers weren't designed to do that and marginally turning up the treble on the amp has just about the same effect.
The only way to fundamentally improve the sound of the speakers, if you really wanted to go crazy with it, is doing a complete redesign of the crossover, adding LCR filters and the like, crossovers in the 70s were usually minimalist. It takes a lot of equipment (calibrated mic etc.) and effort.
But honestly, I like the "rough around the edges" sound of those old wooden behemoths as is, lol.
@westelaudio943 Makes sense. I mean, if you want modern speaker sound, just buy new speakers. The 70's sound is why I like 70's speakers. :)
...well, and the look.
@@AudioThriftThere's a British guy on here based out of Devon, called Haycross Audio. He rebuilds a bunch of old loudspeaker sets, and he often uses alcap capacitors to replace electrolytics. He also likes metal film resistors instead of those squared sand cast ones.
35 Wat Max.................be careful. Those are a work of Art. Never knew you damaged your hearing, guess I got lucky in that regard. Capacitors life much depends on power going thru it, more power less Life and components in early 70's were not reliable where as late 70's is when it peaked for reliability. So, I find an estate sale with some stereo equipment and they had a cassette deck I wanted something terrible Technics M95, blood suckers on EBAY want 2k for this thing. I phone 9am 1 hour after sale opens to make sure it is there and Vulchers already bought everything.
Oh, that's a bummer. Yeah, I often have to wait in line for those things to open just to get a chance at anything decent. It's wild.
@@AudioThrift No Sh*t, you have to get there at 8am, Thanks for tip. Google that cassette deck, it is pretty damn nice.
Yeah, that thing's pretty rad. Do you ever use estatesales(dot)net? It's great for seeing whether it's worth waking up early.
@@AudioThrift I just Google it and get ones in my area, look at the pictures and see if any stereo eq. I should stop this addiction, have more than I can store + 6 systems set-up in house. By the way like your 1950's decor in you living area.
A lot of vintage stereo equipment have pretty expensive capacitors in them, especially in the power supply. Capacitors can go out of spec just sitting not being used in a fairly short period of time, like 2 years or less. While replacements for the ones in these speakers would be pretty inexpensive, some are not. You can try playing a radio through them (speakers) overnight. This is called re forming. Caps go out of spec fairly quickly from just sitting. So long as they aren't leaking or showing other signs of physical damage, re forming the capacitors is worth trying. It should not take anywhere near overnight, but it cannot really hurt. These old capacitors are much higher quality than you will get in the bag you bought.
Also, I would say 1970 is pushing the limits for capacitors. But a lot of this stuff is the 80s. They are low voltage caps in solid state circuits. If they not known to leak, like purple Matsushita caps and are not currently either leaking or showing damage, re forming them is worth trying. Some of these caps, especially in the power supply can cost over 10 Dollars a piece.
Also, you might consider buying a variac. Stereos at flea markets, thrift stores and estate sales can have dead shorts in them. A variac will allow you to slowly increase the voltage and limit the current.
That's a good idea. I'll keep an eye out for a variac. Someone's bound to have one lying around in their garage. Still trying to get my hands on an oscilloscope too.
The re-forming idea is interesting. I've not heard of that but I'm going to read up on it. How permanent is it if you do that?
@@AudioThrift RUclips keeps deleting my reply to you telling you where to find a video on it. Just search youtube for re forming capacitors.
You can also build a dim bulb tester. It's pretty simple and in some ways, even better than a variac.,
That sounds like YT... lol
I'll look that up. That sounds like a fun project
What is that component tester and where can I get one?
That thing is rad! It was less than 20 dollars. I can't post links in the comments but if you search Amazon for "component tester" it should pop up. The only downside is you have to assemble the little acrylic case... and disassemble it to remove/change the battery.
Don't believe the hype about audio grade capacitors. Don't pay the premium for radial capacitors. Instead of amazon, I would use mouser.
I haven't checked them yet but I will. Thanks