"In the 1980's it was assumed that the car would be the dominant form of transportation forever, but now we know that is a silly way of doing things." *sheds tear from the car-dependant hellscape across the Atlantic*
Redevelopment was talked about well before the early nineties, when I work for Barking Council (I left in 89), it was called Barking Reach and was the pet project of the leader of the council, George Brooker. The big problem with the site was the numerous tall electricty pylons and attached multitude of cables. The council wanted the cables to be re-routed underground but the cost was going to be prohibitive and, at the time I left the council, they hadn't found a developer willing to foot the bill.
@@LMB222 I think it was the transmission company that built such a tunnel about 7 miles under north london a few years back, it wasnt really reported I think they used ex yorkshire miners to dig the tunnel, down from about the Herts border to brent cross roughtly
@@LMB222 At Streatley on the Berkshire/Oxfordshire border the power lines go under Streatley Hill and I'm sure they are 440kV. It's difficult to estimate the length but it has to be more than a mile.
I'm from a part of Australia where it indeed gets to 200° quite regularly, but I sympathise with the infrastructure. I was in England that day, on a train from Penzance back to London. It was only 26° in Penzance (but the locals were talking like the Wicked Witch of the West at the end of that film, 'I'm melting!!') but the tracks still buckled, and signals were struck by lightning, and by the time we got to Reading, some six hours later, they just gave up and put us on another train. I think that one got hijacked by a gang of cracked out badgers, or other exotic animals that they have in England… and given that it was England, I suppose they would've been on ketamine, not crack. Anyhow, it was a bad day, and I'm glad you got an interesting video out of it anyhow.
Had that in the 2003 summer when travelling from London to... Stoke-on-Trent I think. Train stops in the English countryside, two hours or so later the announcement can "this Lokomotive has been declared a failure". Meanwhile, all beer on the train was drunk, and we were... a bit unhappy.
Fun fact about your video: I just watched it on a c2c train. The moment you mentioned the Dagenham Dock, I stopped at Dagenham Dock station - you saying "Dagenham Dock" nearly synced with the train announcement. The shot where you show the Barking station, the train parked exactly right next to the spot you took the shot of the old WH Smith. Immaculate timing 👌🏻. Love your videos btw!
The jokes in this video show exactly why I love watching these videos. I couldn't care less if not all the facts are perfect all of the time, it's just nice to be watching good content like this.
@@allanthacker6072 I think when I drove round I tended to look to the Thames side of the road, I half now remember some kind of corrigated iron enclosed works and warehousing on the inner side of the roads loop but what it was I cannot recall
One thought: What about a direct ferry service from Thamesmead to Barking Riverside to connect with the trains? It may not be as good as having their own rail connection, but it might be better than nothing. And yeah, no judgement here about the heat, not even from Texas. Stay safe, stay hydrated, stay cool when you can. 40c is no joke, that's dangerously hot. I only wish the British as a whole weren't so openly hostile to the idea of air conditioning; yeah, it may not stay that hot for that long, but global warming means that summers will be getting hotter for longer, and being out in that heat for too long can kill you. Modern AC is a lot more efficient than it used to be, and the better systems also have heating built in so they're useful in winter too.
When I first got the warnings for the heatwave back in early June, I bought a mobile ac unit for my house and it really helped. I've decided to keep it for the next heatwave in September
In my collection of aged documents I have a copy of the Tyne & Wear Metro proposal. In it they show the branches on either side of the River Tyne and a link across the river between North Shields and South Shields "by possible future technology". We aren't far enough into what was then the future to have discovered this technology, so they content themselves with a ferry!
@@stephenfrost2272 - which apparently is under threat of closure because the docking terminals need investment and there's no money. ruclips.net/video/DX3koWNyUCE/видео.html
We have,of course,been here before...a former industrial railway corridor is repurposed as a new public transport route.A major traffic objective on the other side of the river means that the terminal station has to be by-passed to give room for the descent into a tunnel....
We have something similar to Thamesmead going on here in New York. Co-op City is one of the world's largest housing developments, is on the outskirts of the city in the East Bronx, and has no rail service of any kind.
The GOBLIN line goes further! Yes, it does make you wonder if this station will follow the model of Island Gardens on the DLR and be moved underground if an extension to Thamesmead is ever built.
Jago on fire here ***** Im not exactly fixated on railways but Jago just draws me in fantastic oratory and despite his protestations plenty of research
I still reckon they should (also) extend the DLR to Barking. The overground can get people to London quicker, but the DLR would get people around locally. And it could be tunnelled under the Thames easier to Thamesmead.
For any continuation to go under the river the line would have needed to be brought down to ground level immediately after the Ripple Lane flyover. Continuing on 800m of viaduct means that the possibility of going south to Thamesmead has been removed by design.
@@robotx9285 This project was constructed with investment from a property developer...and is now "done". The people of the future are going to have to build a tunnel under Barking Riverside to Thamesmead. East London needs to have connectivity. This is as inevitable as Crossrail, but might be as delayed as Crossrail. But it will eventually need to happen. However, we have let the Barking Riverside developer push forward a railway that stays high and therefore is incompatible with a Barking Riverside Tunnel. Instead of adding to the money from the developer and building the thing right the first time, we have gone for the suboptimal option. When the time eventually comes and we have to do the job properly, the developer will have gone and 100 percent of the investment will come from the public. So what would have been subsidised, if done now, will then be unsubsidised. Because the replacement Barking Riverside will need to be built far underground, it will need to be built with TBMs that come up somewhere between Barking Riverside and Barking. So the brand new station will fall out of use and the brand new track will also fall out of use. And, if the Barking Riverside developer peppers the site with tower blocks with deep foundations, that would make it hard to find an alignment that can get to a deep-level Barking Riverside and then gradually come up. Central Government really should have topped up the money and also paid for a river tunnel a new station at Thamesmead and an onward connection to one of the railways in South East London. But, at the very least, the fallback option, would be to designate this station as a "temporary station" and choose the alignment of replacement tunnels and then protect that alignment from building construction. A long park could be put in, with the understanding that the northern part of the park would turn into a tunnel portal and a connection to the current viaduct. If you look at Jago's other videos you can see that there have been a lot of suboptimal railways built in London. And that those railways have then needed to be extended. It's blindingly obvious that in a hundred years, some sort of future version of Jago will be making a video about where the original Barking Riverside station used to be.
I'm currently watching this video whilst on a jaunt through London, despite all threats from strikes 😅 It somehow feels the right way to be enjoying one of your videos 😌
I live in one of the southernmost and arguably hottest parts of Europe, and 40° is considered "scorching". It fits the official definition of a heatwave, which is a couple of days 5° warmer than the long-term average, which is around 32°/33° in summer. Yes, we can deal with a lot better here, but it's still very hot. 40° for the UK is insane, but unfortunately, it can no longer be considered abnormal. Not after the second time this happening.
I worked at Waltham Abbey when I was just out of school - not on explosives, silicon fibre reinforced aluminium. An interesting part was that buildings had big walls in between, but light walls on the outside. So if it goes wrong , it doesn't do your mates next door. Thoughtful infrastructure is important. I still giggle at Barking and Tooting. And Kipling, because how many people have Kippled?
Kingston station's bike park is finished and is best described as semi-indoor. It's set apart from the station, and I believe is 3 stories tall - although I don't think I've seen the top floor getting much use for bikes.
To confirm, Barkingside is not the death of Barking. Though in the days of Pollution Riverside might have meant the death of a river. Its much changed now.
Waltham Abbey has much more than a locomotive it has a pretty little town and the burial place of King Harold along with some great places to walk especially along the river lea.
Thanks for the video! I'm not sure I like the old-looking steel on a brand new station. It seems like going to a department store and buying an expensive pair of stonewashed jeans with holes in them... which I know is or was the fashion, but.... Anyway, loved the bee analogy.
Found more transport oddities from the 1970s/80s that I had missed. Route 100 from Barking Town Centre to Beckton (presumably for the remnant of gasworks workers and waste guys at Jenkins Lane. Described service as irregular it was worked by Routemasters from West Ham off the 15 route as interworked schedule. Almost a replacement for the Barking Tram service in some ways. Did the 15 go all the way to Romford then as I only remember it terminating at the White Horse in East Ham.
The "connection" to the ferry, makes me think of the Smart Train "connection" to the Golden Gate ferries in San Rafael in Marin here in the Bay Area. It is a fair hike between dock and platform, and good luck if you have mobility issues. The Sausalito, Key System, and S.P. Mole put passengers almost on the boats.
I'd rather be dead than be condemned to live in a "community" like that. Thankfully, I won't have much longer of a wait for that to happen, given how things have been transpiring personally.
I rode the GOBLIN down to Riverside a month ago, and I couldn't help thinking the housing looks grim. I hate to think what the area will be like when it has 10K new homes.
Hey Jago - avid viewer here and Underground fan from across the pond. I am somewhat familiar with the various lines but I was hoping you’d be open to perhaps adding a slide to your videos wherein you show on the system map where the station which is the subject of the video is for context/reference? Thanks in advance and keep up the awesome work!
I can think of a pretty simple engineering solution to get the train under the river from the stations current position close to the river, the overground system could pass through the station and perform a swiss style loop down hill and into a cross river tunnel with two underground stops until your at abbey wood.
I'm never disappointed with your videos. I don't know how you keep up the quality and quantity & I'm so pleased you do. This one is classic Jago😃 Thank you, you keep me smiling 👍
Corten steel is a steel with a high copper content. The corrosion layer is a lovely rich chocolate brown colour and in many locations this layer is enough to prevent further corrosion. The bad news in a high humidity area, such as by a river the corrosion layer won't fully stabilise and the steel can continue to corrode like mild steel. It can also stain concrete as the corrosion resistant layer forms.
@@PabloBD Barking Doesnt get humidity as such, it does get fog in the late autumn, which might diminish once heat loss from housing occure. I hit freezing Fog going south down the North Circular between Tescos and the A13 roundabout at 7am in the morning
Its most widespread usage is for shipping containers, where the corrosion layer prevents battle scars from eating into the structure enough for the container to reach its destination and get a patch of fresh paint. Some well travelled boxes end up with so many slight variations on the owner's corporate hue that it resembles camouflage.
*sigh* If only my iberian country had this habit, transport *first* and then houses. All the big cities in Portugal are full of "Thamesmeads", waiting for their Godot
It would appear that the solution for Barking Riverside and Thamemead is a simple plan: 1) Shut down the Dangleway (cable car system) at North Greenwich and deinstall the equipment that hauls the cables the cable cars hang from, 2) Build replacement dangleway terminals and dangleway masts between Barking Riverside and Thamesmead, 3) Install the equipment and vehicles salvaged from the North Greenwich system in the new location and 4) Run the new Riverside-to-Thamesmead Dangleway as a free service. (Or they could just use a TBM to connect Barking station to a station in South East London and have underground stations for Barking Riverside and Thamemead along the route.)
Inspired by this video, I visited earlier in the week. There is quite a walk between the pier and the station/buses (it didn't help the most direct road was completely closed). The area is just massive building site with a station and a pier. The roads (the ones that were open) are nicely built with cycle paths.
it's nice to see the station actually finished and ready for development BEFORE the development. In Montpellier, they were supposed to extend a tramway line (so, less expensive right ?) to the new railway station. They promised it would be done before the railway station. Now it's finished, but the tramway line isn't and people can't get to the new station. Ugh.
Very interesting. What's even more interesting IS your mix of metric and customary measurements. Celsius, not Fahrenheit, hectares not acres, meters not feet, yet still miles not kilometers! Oh Britain 🇬🇧, your child across the pond has preserved all of your Britishness. Come on over!
0:20 As someone from Queensland, where 40C is simply a bloody hot summer day - I sympathise entirely. It's not fun, especially if you don't have access to aircon. But because it's *somewhat* normal here, our infrastructure is built for it. Our houses have deep eaves to keep the summer sun out of the house, windows and internal walls placed for cross-ventilation, ceiling fans to maintain airflow. But we moan if the temperature drops below 10C, as our houses are often poorly insulated and heating is often not built in (so electric heaters and blankets abound). And I don't know if our infrastructure would be able to handle snow. We never get it, so it's not planned for. British infrastructure has to deal with summer heatwaves and winter snowstorms; accomodating both extremes in all planning would presumably be financially crippling and an engineering headache. So I shall restrain my reflexive smugness simply because people live in different climates, dealing with different challenges. (Unless it's a panic about 33C "heatwaves", which happened a few years ago in both North America and Europe, and was reported on with much derision in Australian media.)
Your mention about possible extensions to Thamesmead has got me thinking. Im just not sure how useful a connection between Thamesmead and Barking or Beckton would be. I mean, I'm sure the people of Thamesmead would be glad to have _something_, but it would still leave it poorly served compared to surrounding areas. However - if the extension was itself extended to somewhere like Abbey Wood; we'll that's a whole different story, suddenly you open up a lot of possible connections and for a lot of people. Only problem is where to put the tracks...
The problem with that plan is how much of Thamesmead you would have to knock down to get the railway through to Abbey Wood. Well, I _say_ "problem", but...
I've always felt that not building it with the option of extending it to Thamesmead (i.e. not building it as an underground station) was short sighted. Still, it is good to see a new rail line in London and hopefully they can make and a dlr extension work or at least a Thames clipper pier. Why Thamesmead doesn't have a Thames clipper pier I can't understand
A cynic might say that Thamesmead is full of poor people and Thames Clippers are for rich people. That is of course a grossly unfair generalisation, but I fear there's some truth in it!
Because it's not in TfL-land and (perhaps more importantly) it's full of common people who can't be conned into paying a million for a studio apartment just because it has a river view (if you squint out of the bathroom window while standing on the toilet) so there's no developer interest in funding it.
@@atraindriver Thamesmead most certainly is in 'Tfl-land" as TfL has jurisdiction across greater London, which Thamesmead is in. It's fairly well served by TfL buses, and the Elizabeth Line helps, but it's sorely needed a direct rail connection for 50 years.
@@xr6lad maybe but a pier would be cheap and not likely to upset anyone just make Thamesmead the last stop instead of Barking Riverside. So it goes straight across both ways at the end of the route.
Another possibility might be extending Crossrail north from Abbey Wood with a new station at Thamesmead, then under the river and joining up with Barking Riverside.
Not really, there's nowhere for Crossrail to do a 90 degree turn, at abbey wood, nor is there anywhere for a tunnel to emerge at Barking Riverside. The idea of a heavy rail tunnel under the river in this location was, for all practical purposes, dead as soon as this extension was built entirely on a viaduct.
That's nice of them to reach out like that. I'd be very interested in hearing all about the planned community; not only is it a topic I like, but I suspect Mr. Hazzard could talk about dead fish in an interesting way. I'll be watching your development with interest (as I have been for... idk, a year now?).
It does seem a shame that the new development doesn't get a direct service to central London, but at least the connections at Barking are fairly frequent.
Very good - I like the 80's WHSmiths Sign (Cos it is 1 of my Fav shops) & the Network S. E. Sign (Cos I used to use it back in the day when I used to Live in Hertfordshire!!!) Thank you for sharing😉🚂🚂🚂
The only problem with the re-use of some film from last time is , has that LT Dolly Stop (a rare beast nowadays) been converted to a fixed pole and flag.
"Bakingside"; very good! I love your comment about some people saying 40 degrees C heat is not unusual where they live (The U.S. and Australia come to mind). Meanwhile, snow is falling on the Blue Mountains Rail Line west of Sydney (NSW) - no 40C degrees days at present there, minus 1C instead.
I think this channel is worth every bit of what I pay for. You tell stories about the London Metro - a place I will never visit or check your assertions. Please keep telling good stories about the London passenger train system.
The irony is that the line alignment for Barking Riverside was originally designed with the possibility of crossing the river, as most of the shipping moved downriver to Tilbury Docks. So for shipping to be the limiting factor for this opportunity now seems rather amusing. Especially since Tower Bridge (the next crossing upstream) was purposely designed to facilitate shipping at the time it was built, before those docks were closed due to the bigger container ship facilities at Tilbury Docks...
I've never met a bee with hayfever. I usually avoid bees if I can, as I can't relate to them - I'm not a beekeeper. A video on Barking town would be interesting, especially on this channel.
Very interesting video indeed. Pitty it's practically impossible for the railway line to be extended to Thamesmead. Also I'm hoping to visit barking riverside on my next London trip.
@@trevorelliston1 True but this simply means we can have a more modern solution. In this day and age we should be able to have a system where 2 or 3 swing bridges act as one. The main concern as I see it is the rail timetable and the movement of shipping - which takes precedence and can they be coordinated? It's certainly doable but as ever short term cost vs long term investment is the main barrier to progress.
This was really a great video. My two big interests are public transport (mostly rail based) and Urban development. I study civil engineering and urban planning. The bike garage looks great, Ive seen similar in Gothenburg, Sweden. So interesting to see new areas like theese where the transport link is done first and basically you just have to hope people actually will move there later.
You could also investigate Beam Park Station. At the government's behest an enormous housing development is being built on the site of Ford's old factory in Dagenham. The plan was for it to be served by a new station between Dagenham Dock and Rainham - Beam Park. The only slight problem is that the very same government won't underwrite the cost of providing the station, so full development of the site is in doubt. So much for joined-up thinking.
Also, from what you said about connecting Thamesmead to the DLR, why not continue under the Thames to Barking Riverside and so connect northeast London and Essex to southeast London and Kent. But that would require even more joined-up thinking.
I think extending the Hammersmith & City Line to Barking Riverside would have made more sense, as commuters to the center of London would not have to change at Barking.
I've been there a couple of times. It is so desolate. The only people using the station are those going to see what it's all about. Mind you, I remember that in the early days, the buses used to zoom around Canary Wharf until they reached Bethnal Green. So give it time as Mr Hazzard says.
One of the jettys was used to ship building materials by train to beacontree Estate while it was being built .there is bits and pieces of the line still about .
Thanks. When I first saw - decades ago - the proposal to extend the Underground to B. Riverside, I could hardly believe it and I thought it was the dream of some crayonista (sepecialy as the paricularly called for it to be an H&C extension, not an LU extension). They would have had to find a way for the LU tracks to cross the NR tracks, and would have had to install the LU type 4 rail system "under the wires". I pointed out that the then diesel trains on the B&GO could go onto the Tilbury line tracks _already_ without the need for any new infra. At that time there was a proposal (later shelved) to build a new station alongside the existing tracks at/near Box Lane - an idea since resurrected in the form of the proposed Castle Green station. That would have been much quicker and cheaper and there could have been a valuable rail service south of the severance causing A13 to serve Thames View and Barking Reach as the new development was being called. I like to think that it was because of me that the idea took hold, but there must have been other people around who saw how difficult/expensive the LU extension idea was - and maybe the irony of having LU tracks crossing NR tracks but not using the v expensive 1950s flyover installed to reduce at grade crossings that were causing delays.
Interesting video Jago. I grew up very close to the area - I could see the power station chimneys from my bedroom, and my grandfather worked at the power station. It's good to see money going into the area, as for decades it was derelict and tatty. Looking forward to your video on the "town".
Jago, if you do a history of the area, you might mention that there have been at least two occasions where factories there have blown up. The first I remember was when the "BIG D" aerosol factory blew up in the late 60s/early 70s, and the second (and much bigger) was when the Womersley fertiliser factory exploded in 1980 causing one of the biggest peacetime mass evacuations in modern British history.
Your wonderfully dry humour is deliciously funny and makes your videos unmissable. Yes, it would on the face of it be sensible either to re-route the EL1 bus to run east/west and perhaps renumber it EW1 (EAST - WEST) or is that too logical and sensible for the mandarins at TfL and City Hall?
After watching you’re second attempt at making a video about Barking Riverside Jago, a quote springs to mind; If at First You Don't Succeed, Try, Try Again. 😂
Развлечения
"In the 1980's it was assumed that the car would be the dominant form of transportation forever, but now we know that is a silly way of doing things."
*sheds tear from the car-dependant hellscape across the Atlantic*
"Can't build a community of that size without a rail link". Excellent rule, and should be more widespread.
Even the old railways of the past knew that.
Thats why they built stations in the middle of fields.
Redevelopment was talked about well before the early nineties, when I work for Barking Council (I left in 89), it was called Barking Reach and was the pet project of the leader of the council, George Brooker. The big problem with the site was the numerous tall electricty pylons and attached multitude of cables. The council wanted the cables to be re-routed underground but the cost was going to be prohibitive and, at the time I left the council, they hadn't found a developer willing to foot the bill.
I think Brooker turned up at the Official Opening. Of Course a power station might just be a more useful thing now though.
440kV cables underground? I didn't know there even is such a technology.
It probably includes a dedicated tunnel with six cables.
@@LMB222 I think it was the transmission company that built such a tunnel about 7 miles under north london a few years back, it wasnt really reported I think they used ex yorkshire miners to dig the tunnel, down from about the Herts border to brent cross roughtly
@@LMB222 At Streatley on the Berkshire/Oxfordshire border the power lines go under Streatley Hill and I'm sure they are 440kV. It's difficult to estimate the length but it has to be more than a mile.
"I had about as much fun as a bee with hay fever" 🤣🤣 I nearly spat out my tea!
Snap!
I love your humour, “what do you want? actual research, what kind of channel do you think this is?”
I'm from a part of Australia where it indeed gets to 200° quite regularly, but I sympathise with the infrastructure. I was in England that day, on a train from Penzance back to London. It was only 26° in Penzance (but the locals were talking like the Wicked Witch of the West at the end of that film, 'I'm melting!!') but the tracks still buckled, and signals were struck by lightning, and by the time we got to Reading, some six hours later, they just gave up and put us on another train. I think that one got hijacked by a gang of cracked out badgers, or other exotic animals that they have in England… and given that it was England, I suppose they would've been on ketamine, not crack. Anyhow, it was a bad day, and I'm glad you got an interesting video out of it anyhow.
Had that in the 2003 summer when travelling from London to... Stoke-on-Trent I think. Train stops in the English countryside, two hours or so later the announcement can "this Lokomotive has been declared a failure". Meanwhile, all beer on the train was drunk, and we were... a bit unhappy.
This is good comment
Fun fact about your video: I just watched it on a c2c train. The moment you mentioned the Dagenham Dock, I stopped at Dagenham Dock station - you saying "Dagenham Dock" nearly synced with the train announcement. The shot where you show the Barking station, the train parked exactly right next to the spot you took the shot of the old WH Smith. Immaculate timing 👌🏻.
Love your videos btw!
"You are the punchline to Jago's setup."
The jokes in this video show exactly why I love watching these videos.
I couldn't care less if not all the facts are perfect all of the time, it's just nice to be watching good content like this.
I liked your quip 'A Bee with Hayfever'. One I heard recently that tickled my sense of humour was, It's no fun, when the rabbit has the gun!
Welcome to my hometown of Barking, Jago. Riverside used to be covered with loads of warehouses, especially cash and carries.
It still is on thames road - isnt the station where the power station , and absolutely not a lot else was ?
@@highpath4776 No, the station is on a brownfield site.
@@allanthacker6072 I think when I drove round I tended to look to the Thames side of the road, I half now remember some kind of corrigated iron enclosed works and warehousing on the inner side of the roads loop but what it was I cannot recall
@@highpath4776
Yes is on the site of the original coal powered station 1920s to around late seventies . Rode a crosser around it earlie eighties .
What are people who live in Barking called? (I've always wanted to ask but have waited 61.5 years to have a contextually appropriate moment) 🤔.
One thought: What about a direct ferry service from Thamesmead to Barking Riverside to connect with the trains? It may not be as good as having their own rail connection, but it might be better than nothing.
And yeah, no judgement here about the heat, not even from Texas. Stay safe, stay hydrated, stay cool when you can. 40c is no joke, that's dangerously hot. I only wish the British as a whole weren't so openly hostile to the idea of air conditioning; yeah, it may not stay that hot for that long, but global warming means that summers will be getting hotter for longer, and being out in that heat for too long can kill you. Modern AC is a lot more efficient than it used to be, and the better systems also have heating built in so they're useful in winter too.
Bus to Abbey Wood does fine for them. For now.
When I first got the warnings for the heatwave back in early June, I bought a mobile ac unit for my house and it really helped. I've decided to keep it for the next heatwave in September
I wouldn’t say we hate air conditioning our houses are just older than air conditioning, I wish I had ac my house was built in the 30s
In my collection of aged documents I have a copy of the Tyne & Wear Metro proposal. In it they show the branches on either side of the River Tyne and a link across the river between North Shields and South Shields "by possible future technology". We aren't far enough into what was then the future to have discovered this technology, so they content themselves with a ferry!
@@stephenfrost2272 - which apparently is under threat of closure because the docking terminals need investment and there's no money. ruclips.net/video/DX3koWNyUCE/видео.html
We have,of course,been here before...a former industrial railway corridor is repurposed as a new public transport route.A major traffic objective on the other side of the river means that the terminal station has to be by-passed to give room for the descent into a tunnel....
Island Gardens…?
@@calmeilles Indeed.
We have something similar to Thamesmead going on here in New York. Co-op City is one of the world's largest housing developments, is on the outskirts of the city in the East Bronx, and has no rail service of any kind.
The GOBLIN line goes further! Yes, it does make you wonder if this station will follow the model of Island Gardens on the DLR and be moved underground if an extension to Thamesmead is ever built.
Jago on fire here
*****
Im not exactly fixated on railways but Jago just draws me in fantastic oratory and despite his protestations plenty of research
I still reckon they should (also) extend the DLR to Barking. The overground can get people to London quicker, but the DLR would get people around locally.
And it could be tunnelled under the Thames easier to Thamesmead.
For any continuation to go under the river the line would have needed to be brought down to ground level immediately after the Ripple Lane flyover. Continuing on 800m of viaduct means that the possibility of going south to Thamesmead has been removed by design.
Yes. They've designed the station so that it can be extended, but where? Why didn't they bring it back down to earth?
@@davespagnol8847 They've extended the line to a nowhere so it could become a somewhere.
They could just do that again later on.
@@robotx9285 This project was constructed with investment from a property developer...and is now "done". The people of the future are going to have to build a tunnel under Barking Riverside to Thamesmead. East London needs to have connectivity. This is as inevitable as Crossrail, but might be as delayed as Crossrail. But it will eventually need to happen.
However, we have let the Barking Riverside developer push forward a railway that stays high and therefore is incompatible with a Barking Riverside Tunnel. Instead of adding to the money from the developer and building the thing right the first time, we have gone for the suboptimal option. When the time eventually comes and we have to do the job properly, the developer will have gone and 100 percent of the investment will come from the public. So what would have been subsidised, if done now, will then be unsubsidised.
Because the replacement Barking Riverside will need to be built far underground, it will need to be built with TBMs that come up somewhere between Barking Riverside and Barking. So the brand new station will fall out of use and the brand new track will also fall out of use.
And, if the Barking Riverside developer peppers the site with tower blocks with deep foundations, that would make it hard to find an alignment that can get to a deep-level Barking Riverside and then gradually come up.
Central Government really should have topped up the money and also paid for a river tunnel a new station at Thamesmead and an onward connection to one of the railways in South East London.
But, at the very least, the fallback option, would be to designate this station as a "temporary station" and choose the alignment of replacement tunnels and then protect that alignment from building construction. A long park could be put in, with the understanding that the northern part of the park would turn into a tunnel portal and a connection to the current viaduct.
If you look at Jago's other videos you can see that there have been a lot of suboptimal railways built in London. And that those railways have then needed to be extended. It's blindingly obvious that in a hundred years, some sort of future version of Jago will be making a video about where the original Barking Riverside station used to be.
I'm currently watching this video whilst on a jaunt through London, despite all threats from strikes 😅 It somehow feels the right way to be enjoying one of your videos 😌
You're right. It does regularly top 200 degrees where I live but only in a very specific part of my kitchen.
Only wish my oven got that hot. its out of its element
@@highpath4776 😂😂😂
Damn, that place must feel like an- actually no, I'm not going to say that one, way too easy 🤣
I'd definitely be interested in seeing your video about the town itself; I'd love to hear your thoughts about town planning.
I live in one of the southernmost and arguably hottest parts of Europe, and 40° is considered "scorching". It fits the official definition of a heatwave, which is a couple of days 5° warmer than the long-term average, which is around 32°/33° in summer. Yes, we can deal with a lot better here, but it's still very hot.
40° for the UK is insane, but unfortunately, it can no longer be considered abnormal. Not after the second time this happening.
Absolutely nothing wrong with nerdy interests! Thank you for another fascinating Friday afternoon video.
I worked at Waltham Abbey when I was just out of school - not on explosives, silicon fibre reinforced aluminium. An interesting part was that buildings had big walls in between, but light walls on the outside. So if it goes wrong , it doesn't do your mates next door.
Thoughtful infrastructure is important.
I still giggle at Barking and Tooting.
And Kipling, because how many people have Kippled?
Ruddyard did
@@highpath4776 So did Rudyard.
They do make exceedingly good cakes though…
@@bob_the_bomb4508 I wouldn't know. I haven't kippled . I have barked, and many would say I dork. And of course I have tooted.
@@chrissaltmarsh6777 I kip whenever I can. Especially after a good lunch… :)
Kingston station's bike park is finished and is best described as semi-indoor. It's set apart from the station, and I believe is 3 stories tall - although I don't think I've seen the top floor getting much use for bikes.
It's 15 storeys tall actually. Seems Jago confused you with his metric system conversions.
@@Eddyspeeder So... as tall as a tube station is deep?
Back at Barking Riverside. What a joy to watch this on a Friday afternoon !
To confirm, Barkingside is not the death of Barking. Though in the days of Pollution Riverside might have meant the death of a river. Its much changed now.
Waltham Abbey has much more than a locomotive it has a pretty little town and the burial place of King Harold along with some great places to walk especially along the river lea.
Thanks for the video! I'm not sure I like the old-looking steel on a brand new station. It seems like going to a department store and buying an expensive pair of stonewashed jeans with holes in them... which I know is or was the fashion, but.... Anyway, loved the bee analogy.
Found more transport oddities from the 1970s/80s that I had missed. Route 100 from Barking Town Centre to Beckton (presumably for the remnant of gasworks workers and waste guys at Jenkins Lane. Described service as irregular it was worked by Routemasters from West Ham off the 15 route as interworked schedule. Almost a replacement for the Barking Tram service in some ways. Did the 15 go all the way to Romford then as I only remember it terminating at the White Horse in East Ham.
At some points of its history, the 15 went to North Woolwich on weekdays, and Becontree Heath on Sundays.
The "connection" to the ferry, makes me think of the Smart Train "connection" to the Golden Gate ferries in San Rafael in Marin here in the Bay Area. It is a fair hike between dock and platform, and good luck if you have mobility issues. The Sausalito, Key System, and S.P. Mole put passengers almost on the boats.
Under 500m on the flat (once descended from the platforms, that is).
I think Barking Riverside should be called Dog-On-Thames
What a terrier-able joke, Harry
I think that would cause a lot of confusion with Dog-On-Ham, which is just a mile or two to the east. 😁
Barking Riverside looks like one of those charitable housing projects for the working poor that sprang up in the mid-nineteenth century.
I'd rather be dead than be condemned to live in a "community" like that. Thankfully, I won't have much longer of a wait for that to happen, given how things have been transpiring personally.
I rode the GOBLIN down to Riverside a month ago, and I couldn't help thinking the housing looks grim. I hate to think what the area will be like when it has 10K new homes.
if you want to COR-TEN Steel on a larger building, check out the Broadcasting Tower in Leeds, I personally think it looks quite good.
'The problem with future-proofing is that the future often goes in a different direction.'
Hey Jago - avid viewer here and Underground fan from across the pond. I am somewhat familiar with the various lines but I was hoping you’d be open to perhaps adding a slide to your videos wherein you show on the system map where the station which is the subject of the video is for context/reference? Thanks in advance and keep up the awesome work!
I can think of a pretty simple engineering solution to get the train under the river from the stations current position close to the river, the overground system could pass through the station and perform a swiss style loop down hill and into a cross river tunnel with two underground stops until your at abbey wood.
Unlikely. There won't be any space for a Swiss style loop as it's all bring developed into housing!
I'm never disappointed with your videos. I don't know how you keep up the quality and quantity & I'm so pleased you do. This one is classic Jago😃
Thank you, you keep me smiling 👍
Mirabile dictu, Riverside campus... Latin lessons as well as nerdy trains. Thank you.
I've just been to Seestadt at the end of the U2 line in Vienna - has a similar feel. Let's hope Barking Riverside lives up to its potential!
A nerdier interest in planned communities.... now that sounds like a new 2nd channel that I could get into.
Corten steel is a steel with a high copper content. The corrosion layer is a lovely rich chocolate brown colour and in many locations this layer is enough to prevent further corrosion. The bad news in a high humidity area, such as by a river the corrosion layer won't fully stabilise and the steel can continue to corrode like mild steel. It can also stain concrete as the corrosion resistant layer forms.
Yes i've seen this the corten steel staining everything around
@@PabloBD Barking Doesnt get humidity as such, it does get fog in the late autumn, which might diminish once heat loss from housing occure. I hit freezing Fog going south down the North Circular between Tescos and the A13 roundabout at 7am in the morning
Yes, it usually works well, but I've heard of examples where it just keeps on rusting. Oops!
Its most widespread usage is for shipping containers, where the corrosion layer prevents battle scars from eating into the structure enough for the container to reach its destination and get a patch of fresh paint. Some well travelled boxes end up with so many slight variations on the owner's corporate hue that it resembles camouflage.
*sigh*
If only my iberian country had this habit, transport *first* and then houses. All the big cities in Portugal are full of "Thamesmeads", waiting for their Godot
VERY ...INTERESTING.....BEAUTIFUL new place. Thank you Jago!
Come and see the multi storey indoor bike park in Cambridge. It’s 3 stories high next to the station!
And then go and see the one in Utrecht!
"Mirabile dictu" ah 5 years of Latin torture under Frankie Mack followed by an "F" in the exam come flooding back. What sweet memories, thanks Jago.
It would appear that the solution for Barking Riverside and Thamemead is a simple plan:
1) Shut down the Dangleway (cable car system) at North Greenwich and deinstall the equipment that hauls the cables the cable cars hang from,
2) Build replacement dangleway terminals and dangleway masts between Barking Riverside and Thamesmead,
3) Install the equipment and vehicles salvaged from the North Greenwich system in the new location and
4) Run the new Riverside-to-Thamesmead Dangleway as a free service.
(Or they could just use a TBM to connect Barking station to a station in South East London and have underground stations for Barking Riverside and Thamemead along the route.)
Inspired by this video, I visited earlier in the week. There is quite a walk between the pier and the station/buses (it didn't help the most direct road was completely closed). The area is just massive building site with a station and a pier. The roads (the ones that were open) are nicely built with cycle paths.
it's nice to see the station actually finished and ready for development BEFORE the development.
In Montpellier, they were supposed to extend a tramway line (so, less expensive right ?) to the new railway station. They promised it would be done before the railway station. Now it's finished, but the tramway line isn't and people can't get to the new station. Ugh.
Great video as always!
Very interesting. What's even more interesting IS your mix of metric and customary measurements. Celsius, not Fahrenheit, hectares not acres, meters not feet, yet still miles not kilometers! Oh Britain 🇬🇧, your child across the pond has preserved all of your Britishness. Come on over!
We spell it ‘Metres’ (for measurement). ‘Meters’ are what record your gas and electricity usage.
Spelled the same as I spelled it here. We simplified spelling quite some time ago.
0:20 As someone from Queensland, where 40C is simply a bloody hot summer day - I sympathise entirely. It's not fun, especially if you don't have access to aircon. But because it's *somewhat* normal here, our infrastructure is built for it. Our houses have deep eaves to keep the summer sun out of the house, windows and internal walls placed for cross-ventilation, ceiling fans to maintain airflow.
But we moan if the temperature drops below 10C, as our houses are often poorly insulated and heating is often not built in (so electric heaters and blankets abound). And I don't know if our infrastructure would be able to handle snow. We never get it, so it's not planned for. British infrastructure has to deal with summer heatwaves and winter snowstorms; accomodating both extremes in all planning would presumably be financially crippling and an engineering headache.
So I shall restrain my reflexive smugness simply because people live in different climates, dealing with different challenges.
(Unless it's a panic about 33C "heatwaves", which happened a few years ago in both North America and Europe, and was reported on with much derision in Australian media.)
Another brilliant video sir.
A bee with hay-fever. That's one of your best funnies ever . I enjoyed the video.
Your mention about possible extensions to Thamesmead has got me thinking.
Im just not sure how useful a connection between Thamesmead and Barking or Beckton would be. I mean, I'm sure the people of Thamesmead would be glad to have _something_, but it would still leave it poorly served compared to surrounding areas.
However - if the extension was itself extended to somewhere like Abbey Wood; we'll that's a whole different story, suddenly you open up a lot of possible connections and for a lot of people.
Only problem is where to put the tracks...
The problem with that plan is how much of Thamesmead you would have to knock down to get the railway through to Abbey Wood.
Well, I _say_ "problem", but...
@@stevieinselby yes, exactly.
Unless you went under it, but then the problem is funding it
I've always felt that not building it with the option of extending it to Thamesmead (i.e. not building it as an underground station) was short sighted. Still, it is good to see a new rail line in London and hopefully they can make and a dlr extension work or at least a Thames clipper pier. Why Thamesmead doesn't have a Thames clipper pier I can't understand
A cynic might say that Thamesmead is full of poor people and Thames Clippers are for rich people.
That is of course a grossly unfair generalisation, but I fear there's some truth in it!
Because it's not in TfL-land and (perhaps more importantly) it's full of common people who can't be conned into paying a million for a studio apartment just because it has a river view (if you squint out of the bathroom window while standing on the toilet) so there's no developer interest in funding it.
@@atraindriver Thamesmead most certainly is in 'Tfl-land" as TfL has jurisdiction across greater London, which Thamesmead is in.
It's fairly well served by TfL buses, and the Elizabeth Line helps, but it's sorely needed a direct rail connection for 50 years.
@@xr6lad maybe but a pier would be cheap and not likely to upset anyone just make Thamesmead the last stop instead of Barking Riverside. So it goes straight across both ways at the end of the route.
Another belter Jago! Thanks for the insight.
Another possibility might be extending Crossrail north from Abbey Wood with a new station at Thamesmead, then under the river and joining up with Barking Riverside.
Not really, there's nowhere for Crossrail to do a 90 degree turn, at abbey wood, nor is there anywhere for a tunnel to emerge at Barking Riverside.
The idea of a heavy rail tunnel under the river in this location was, for all practical purposes, dead as soon as this extension was built entirely on a viaduct.
That's nice of them to reach out like that. I'd be very interested in hearing all about the planned community; not only is it a topic I like, but I suspect Mr. Hazzard could talk about dead fish in an interesting way. I'll be watching your development with interest (as I have been for... idk, a year now?).
It does seem a shame that the new development doesn't get a direct service to central London, but at least the connections at Barking are fairly frequent.
Very good - I like the 80's WHSmiths Sign (Cos it is 1 of my Fav shops) & the Network S. E. Sign (Cos I used to use it back in the day when I used to Live in Hertfordshire!!!) Thank you for sharing😉🚂🚂🚂
I look forward to future updates, thanks
I enjoy your videos and the sound of your voice, but most of all I love your sense of humour !!
The only problem with the re-use of some film from last time is , has that LT Dolly Stop (a rare beast nowadays) been converted to a fixed pole and flag.
Thank you for heading back
"Bakingside"; very good! I love your comment about some people saying 40 degrees C heat is not unusual where they live (The U.S. and Australia come to mind). Meanwhile, snow is falling on the Blue Mountains Rail Line west of Sydney (NSW) - no 40C degrees days at present there, minus 1C instead.
I think this channel is worth every bit of what I pay for. You tell stories about the London Metro - a place I will never visit or check your assertions. Please keep telling good stories about the London passenger train system.
The irony is that the line alignment for Barking Riverside was originally designed with the possibility of crossing the river, as most of the shipping moved downriver to Tilbury Docks. So for shipping to be the limiting factor for this opportunity now seems rather amusing. Especially since Tower Bridge (the next crossing upstream) was purposely designed to facilitate shipping at the time it was built, before those docks were closed due to the bigger container ship facilities at Tilbury Docks...
You got me with a bee with hay fever 😂
The style of the windows down the sides of the station and the fact that its elevated reminds me a lot of Morioka in Japan.
I've never met a bee with hayfever. I usually avoid bees if I can, as I can't relate to them - I'm not a beekeeper. A video on Barking town would be interesting, especially on this channel.
Very interesting video indeed. Pitty it's practically impossible for the railway line to be extended to Thamesmead. Also I'm hoping to visit barking riverside on my next London trip.
6:52 perhaps some kind of swing bridge like the old one in Newcastle could overcome the problem.
Certainly the Tram at Barking to Beckton Crossed the Roding over a slide bridge from memory - details are on the web
The Thames is a tad wider than the Tyne at that point……..
@@trevorelliston1 True but this simply means we can have a more modern solution. In this day and age we should be able to have a system where 2 or 3 swing bridges act as one. The main concern as I see it is the rail timetable and the movement of shipping - which takes precedence and can they be coordinated? It's certainly doable but as ever short term cost vs long term investment is the main barrier to progress.
This was really a great video. My two big interests are public transport (mostly rail based) and Urban development. I study civil engineering and urban planning. The bike garage looks great, Ive seen similar in Gothenburg, Sweden. So interesting to see new areas like theese where the transport link is done first and basically you just have to hope people actually will move there later.
Loved this thank you
Good one Jago 👍
This development typically example of infill between other places
Nice one Jago! 👍
What a mirabile dictu of a video Jago!
I'll definitely watch the town tour video.
You could also investigate Beam Park Station.
At the government's behest an enormous housing development is being built on the site of Ford's old factory in Dagenham. The plan was for it to be served by a new station between Dagenham Dock and Rainham - Beam Park. The only slight problem is that the very same government won't underwrite the cost of providing the station, so full development of the site is in doubt.
So much for joined-up thinking.
Also, from what you said about connecting Thamesmead to the DLR, why not continue under the Thames to Barking Riverside and so connect northeast London and Essex to southeast London and Kent. But that would require even more joined-up thinking.
I think extending the Hammersmith & City Line to Barking Riverside would have made more sense, as commuters to the center of London would not have to change at Barking.
Awww Jago, you are the riverside to my barking!
Mirabile dictu - loved the Latin reference there is no limit to your talents. A good classics education.
I would like to see a future video on Barking Riverside, the town, please. Thank you.
Barking Riverside and not a dog in sight! Are we to conclude that mad dogs and Englishman no longer go out in the mid-day sun!
I've been there a couple of times. It is so desolate. The only people using the station are those going to see what it's all about. Mind you, I remember that in the early days, the buses used to zoom around Canary Wharf until they reached Bethnal Green. So give it time as Mr Hazzard says.
"... because everything is on fire all the time".
This is fine.
Yes, I live in Texas. Today it's ONLY supposed to get up to 95F/35C.
One of the jettys was used to ship building materials by train to beacontree Estate while it was being built .there is bits and pieces of the line still about .
I'm curious what @notjustbikes would think of this station and the new development.
Thanks. When I first saw - decades ago - the proposal to extend the Underground to B. Riverside, I could hardly believe it and I thought it was the dream of some crayonista (sepecialy as the paricularly called for it to be an H&C extension, not an LU extension). They would have had to find a way for the LU tracks to cross the NR tracks, and would have had to install the LU type 4 rail system "under the wires". I pointed out that the then diesel trains on the B&GO could go onto the Tilbury line tracks _already_ without the need for any new infra. At that time there was a proposal (later shelved) to build a new station alongside the existing tracks at/near Box Lane - an idea since resurrected in the form of the proposed Castle Green station. That would have been much quicker and cheaper and there could have been a valuable rail service south of the severance causing A13 to serve Thames View and Barking Reach as the new development was being called.
I like to think that it was because of me that the idea took hold, but there must have been other people around who saw how difficult/expensive the LU extension idea was - and maybe the irony of having LU tracks crossing NR tracks but not using the v expensive 1950s flyover installed to reduce at grade crossings that were causing delays.
Interesting video Jago.
I grew up very close to the area - I could see the power station chimneys from my bedroom, and my grandfather worked at the power station. It's good to see money going into the area, as for decades it was derelict and tatty. Looking forward to your video on the "town".
Jago, if you do a history of the area, you might mention that there have been at least two occasions where factories there have blown up. The first I remember was when the "BIG D" aerosol factory blew up in the late 60s/early 70s, and the second (and much bigger) was when the Womersley fertiliser factory exploded in 1980 causing one of the biggest peacetime mass evacuations in modern British history.
Just under ten minutes, ideal for watching in between, very relaxing ❗ 👌😀👍
The people who live and work near this station are very lucky!
Glad it worked-out the 2nd time 'round. Sounds like despite the fancy station, the pier is still quay to the development, though...
Your wonderfully dry humour is deliciously funny and makes your videos unmissable.
Yes, it would on the face of it be sensible either to re-route the EL1 bus to run east/west and perhaps renumber it EW1 (EAST - WEST) or is that too logical and sensible for the mandarins at TfL and City Hall?
"Mirabile dictu" indeed. Now *that* brings me back.
Looks like a nice well built modern station for the future of the city, nice job network rail
Thanks for the evening history lesson
After watching you’re second attempt at making a video about Barking Riverside Jago, a quote springs to mind; If at First You Don't Succeed, Try, Try Again. 😂
That rusty steel looks absolutely horrible.
The Hammersmith to city line all the way to gray would be so cool