Free to Choose Part 5: Created Equal Featuring Milton Friedman
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- Опубликовано: 21 дек 2010
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When Sowell puts down the intellectual hammer Friedman sits there with the look of a proud father.
Sowell, in my mind, is a better debater than Friedman. Friedman is very smart, and a brilliant economist and right about many things, I just think Sowell articulates his positions better and is a better philosopher
Except that when Sowell left the Chicago he was still a Marxist in spite of being taught by Friedman. Haha
@@paulburket Actually, while Sowell was still attending the University of Chicago he took a summer job with the department of labor. It was during this experience that he became aware of the self interest inherent in government institutions. When he took the job he was a Marxist & by the end of the summer he was the Sowell we know a love.
The master then knew he was surpass by the pupil 🤣🤣🤣.
@@trevorlambert4921 Sowell is better at hitting hard with the fact, etc. But Friedman ends up being more influential by being so nice.
The way Sowell argues isn't for a back and forth, it's more for an explaination/interview ? He's a bit too confrontational to really get people on his side, it's more demonstration for people who are already on this side getting more and more facts
"Like most people I have never SEEN a pollster" LOL
i m not native speaker. please explain me the joke xD
He's basically saying that most people are never called by people who conduct polls. At the time, a huge portion of Americans had phones, which is how polls were conducted. He's questioning the validity of the sampling done by those conducting the polls.
ah hahahah.
he's savage af, love him
Dude that's so funny
Much of what makes Sowell's opinions so impressive to me is that he's not from one level of society, socially or economically. A black man born in the south, raised in Harlem, and then on to ivy league college. His views come from seeing society from different levels and ethnicity.
Isn't that what intelligence is, to see opposing ideas and integrate them logically into your own neural pathways if they're sound?
yep. he also went to school with professors who was on the opposite side and they got along perfectly fine. can't say that for schools nowadays.
And, he put himself through school!
A man who refuses to listen will never learn. Anyone intelligent will love for someone to be able to change their opinions. If they can do so with a more sound argument than you've been able to realize, then you'll have learned. If not, it will help you understand your own point of view, and why you disagree with theirs.
He's also like a thousand years old now so has a ton of life experience.
And 38 years later Chile is the richest and first developed country in Latin America. Milton Fridman: I rest my case .
true, but I hope that isn't an endorsement of the military junta... as opposed to the economic policies themselves. but hardly a difference to the disappeared
@@tsuba14 It is not. Friedman expressly said that he did not condone absence of political freedom, which nonetheless did not dilute the fact that people in Chile were freer than those in communist countries.
I remember being blown away crossing the border from Bolivia to Chile. Night and day difference.
@@cloudedjourney Pinochet murdered the leaders of the trade unions and made profits safe for American companies in Chile. He was a creature of the US CIA and Nixon. His regime tortured over 35,000 people.
“What party is asking for equality of results?” damn if they could have only seen the future.
LOL
They are still denying it decades later lol
This program is the shit. Finally people talking about real stuff that matters rather than yelling or insulting people to score political points.
"Finally"
The sad irony of that statement :(
you realize this happened many decades ago right? and the left has significantly more pull now than it did back then.
Much to the regret of any who love liberty.
Does anybody know the name of the song with the violin?
Actually, that British guy seemed awfully modern. Kept throwing insults at and berated Milton on various petty statements or misunderstanding.
"I think that the internet is going to be one of the major forces for reducing the role of government."
Amazing how Incredibly prescient a man Milton was.
freddo 1614 well its pretty easy to disagree. Politics have a great deal to do with economy, and just think about it Trump would have never won if internet didnt exist. The influence of internet is undeniable.
That's the opposite of prescient, the internet greatly expanded the power and control held by governments.
John Anthony that’s a perfectly fine argument to make, but I’m not sure the actual outcome has been less government control. The government now has entire institutions dedicated to using the internet to surveil each and every American.
That calm smile of Friedman says to me "ok you don't hear me, I know you will not hear me. Your children or grandchildren will, because of your cases inability to aany good for decades"
+Tenebrousable He stays completely calm because he knows that he is right.
Spot on, that's literally me right now.
That's exactly right. Couldn't phrase it better (really).
yes!
Man I wouldn't want Dr Sowell angry at me, but I do love his righteousness.
BarbaraJoanneBJ Lol, you couldn't argue your way out of it. hahah
BarbaraJoanneBJ That's the University of Chicago's school of Economics for ya. Sowell once described economics there like a "full contact sport".
BarbaraJoanneBJ I'm honestly not sure whether being in a debate with him or with Friedman would be worse. I've never seen either of them lose.
I just hate how Peter Jay or the Host kept talking over Freidman. But Melton is smart and keeps calm. The lady though should not have been allowed on to the panel.
@@dragonestea Imagine being in a debate against both of them, like in this video!!!
43:00 Gotta love Sowell for not allowing this woman speak for an entire race of people with whom she shares no identity. We need more people like him these days.
Hearing Friedman discuss with that woman makes me understand why Thomas Sowell wrote books about the unconstraint vision of the annointed.
Sowell is one of the anointed he has so much criticism for. Just like everyone else without wealth of his generation he got government money. In his case GI Bill money to pay for school.
Tom Sowell opened my eyes to the issue with this discussion. They were talking across paths. The difference between the hope or effort toward equality versus the best process or system to reach equality. What the other speakers were arguing is that government intervention is necessary to achieve equality because they hope for it to happen whereas Friedman and Sowell were showing which system best achieves this equality. Equality and freedom are a byproduct of free market capitalism.
Everywhere that workers have come to state power the capitalist nations have launched invasions and trade blockades. Starting with the Paris commune and then the Soviet Union. Korea, Vietnam and Cuba. Not to even mention the countries they invaded because they didn't like the policy of the government towards Western or American Big business. Millions slaughtered on the orders of the US CIA. In Iran, Indonesia, Korea and Vietnam.
Have any of you Friedman critics ever been poor or lived in a poor area? I have. A great many of my neighbors did CHOOSE to live in poverty. One was given a scholarship to a top state school and pissed it away by not applying herself. Then she retreated to unhealthy habits. From time to time, she would attempt reentry into the job market but at the first sign of difficulty, she would blame the system and do something to sabotage the opportunity. Much of what keeps people in poverty is in their own heart and soul.
Your claim that in a free market "power consolidates in the hands of the rich which puts them in a much stronger bargaining position to dictate slave wages to the workers" is an old Marxist saw and largely false. Take the Marxian poster child for "slave wages" - Wal Mart. Are you aware that in North Dakota entry level Wal Mart employees make $17 an hour? That's nearly 2.5 times the federal minimum wage. Is that because North Dakota Wal Mart slave masters are kind and philanthropic just as those in other states are greedy and uncaring? No. It's because in a free market, supply and demand dictate wages, not some fictional evil capitalist archetype created in the minds of over educated, ivory tower, Marxist egg heads.
Finally, if capitalism has been so bad for America, why do immigrants still rush to our shores from all those places that in your mind are supposedly more "equal"? The answer is because as imperfect as capitalism is, it still offers far more opportunity and creates more middle class wealth than any centralized system ever has.
Marshall Duncan Simply brilliant. Greetings from a brand new socialist disaster called Ecuador.
Would you kindly explain how this is possible, Sir?
Marshall Duncan, the problem with the "privileged" societies is that those who are in control utilize all the means in existence to secure the wealth and prosperity of their own family and friends. Having said this, I also admit that NEPOTISM is also present in some of the corrupted socialist cultures. Mr. Milton talked like a broken record to proclaim the advantages of the Capitalist system during the Cold War; his "job" was to demoralized the Russians. He only repeated a mantra through the superficiality of an argument that was backed up by many corporations during that era.
Amravín de Schur You obviously haven't read Capitalism and Freedom. I'd hardly call Friedman's copious economic analyses contained therein "superficial". And I haven't seen a shred of evidence showing Friedman was a corporate pawn. To the contrary, Friedman bashed corporate greed almost as much as he bashed government corruption. You seem extremely naive about what he actually said. Please provide your source if you're going to make such an ad hominem attack on his character. As to your own analysis, you're putting the cart before the horse. How did "privileged" societies get that way in the first place (if by "privileged" societies, you mean societies like the U.S.)? Through capitalism! So now you want to get rid of capitalism and switch to what? Monarchy? Dictatorship? Theocracy? I.e. countries where 10% of the people (who are affiliated with the government) are "privileged" and the other 90% are impoverished with no rights? Or perhaps some fairyland utopia in your own mind? Yes, human nature is fixed and certain men will attempt to exploit capitalism as they will any system. But it is thus far the lesser of the organizational evils.
Sweden, Norway, Finland or The Netherlands show a much healthier system than that thing you are trying to glorify.
Thomas Sowell: YOU DID DAMMIT!
damn.
Sowell doesn't fuck around. It is nice to see him in his younger years, although he is 49 or 50 here, get riled up.
God bless Thomas Sowell and may he give us a few more books.
He isn't afraid to throw an intellectual punch that is for sure!!
@@ManPursueExcellence He turned 90 a few months ago, and was available for an interview the day after that on Charter Schools. Sharp as ever.
@@SamvedIyer
Thank you for bringing me back to something I said 3 years ago 😆.
@@ManPursueExcellence Just saying. I am glad he is still in good health.
Thomas Sowell is freaking BRILLIANT!! I never heard of Thomas Sowell untill I saw these4 series. Thank God for TS.
I hope you have checked out more of his stuff since then
pick up a buncha his books, even audio on utoob
@@rickiandavis Sowell sits to the right of even MLK. Supporting cold war liberals who favored Victory in Vietnam. He did nothing during the civil rights movement despite his age but sit in a professors chair and critcise others.
Old white woman telling Thomas Sowell what is was like to be black..... lol! "Pollsters".....
democrats never change, eh?
@@malthus101 nope, they never do.
Incidentally Sowell is older than Fox Piven .
55:35 Friedman: "And I think the empirical evidence is OVERWHELMINGLY on this side."
I love that line.
The empirical evidence shows that Lenin was correct when he wrote "Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism." The capitalist are unable to escape the greed for profits and the division into nation states whose world market competition leads to Imperialist war. In 1914 it was Britain and Germany today its the US and China.
I'm British and this politically correct striving for absolute equality has systematically ruined whatonce made Britiain and beacon for the world.
The US too. It's all about entitlement. We've moved from a beacon of the free world in the early 1900's to social justice warriors and socialized medicine. We are in a perpetual downslide.
When exactly was britain a becon of the world and what made it so?
@@toddmaek5436 It was a beacon of Imperialist tyranny.
I love watching this debate from years ago about the plight of the people of Chile between Friedman and Francis Fox Piven. Fast forward from 1980 through to today, and Chile is often held up as a brilliant example of a nation whose economy has been oft heralded as a miracle story. The Chilean people are among the top per capita in terms of living standards.
There are several great example where Friedman comes out looking like a prophet. They tried to argue no political parties in the west were seeking increased equality of outcome through government policy. Ha!
Anyone else find it ironic that so many of these intellectuals stated that no one is arguing for equality of outcome and completely flattening societies inequalities, and yet here we are at 2020?
Billionaries being even more idiotic than in the past. Sure we all need to get into a Musk electric rechargeable rocket and blast off to Mars after destroying earth.
When dealing with any kind of government intervention we have to ask ourselves one important question. That question is "is this something important or urgent enough to be done at the point of a gun."
amazing, who state that?
👏👏👏
The state is a legalized monopoly of violence
I love how this ended. They didn't stop the discussion. Instead, they just lowered the volume of the speakers and concluded this episode of the discussion. We need more programs like this today.
im just sad that i couldnt hear more discussion, milton finally just came out with it and said that freedom was his goal regardless of what the outcome was and i wanted to hear more of that discussion
I love Dr : Thomas Sowell so much.
This content is pure gold. Oh, and I got so excited when I saw the camera pan from Friedman to Sowell! Freaking A-Team!
Fr!
@@MrDanielfff777When the crisis of 2008 hit the bosses though all that neoliberal theory in the ash can as they bailed themselves out with the Bush and Obama "No Banker Left Behind Policy."
41:30
Thomas sowell is an intellectual Juggernaut!
Great to see him here in his younger years, although he was about 50 here.
Among the very best ever.
He didn't talk enough honestly
@@trevorlambert4921 Luckily he has written plenty of books and there are many video clips and long interviews of him on RUclips.
Anyone else rewatching this series during the coronavirus pandemic?
I only heard of Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams in the first month of lockdown, i.e. March 2020. Even though I have heard over Milton Friedman in high school, I haven't seen their interviews.
I'm catching up
Peasants lost their land because of the free enterprise system? How is she a professor???
Ben G she's one of those morons that caused my country to be impoverished. effing Fabian socialists
Nepotism.
Typical Leftist "professor", makes up totally backwards and inaccurate history as she yells at someone else repeatedly.
A Leftist needs no facts, all that is necessary is for her to assert it.
Peasants lost their land cause they died from the black death
Peter Jay, I have to say, is an impressive debater but had we revisited this discussion ten years later, he would have seen that the reforms of Nigel Lawson, the British Chancellor of the Exchequer, had a huge positive effect on the income of people of ALL classes, including the working class. What did Lawson do? He cut taxes, including the top rate of tax, which went as high as 98% during the 70s.
That was amazing... it ended on a really epic note as well...
"My God is 'Freedom'"
His good is capitalism markets and gold.
Milton and Thomas👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
This was a fascinating debate, especially given today's political climate. To think the same topics are going through the same debate today, as they were in 1980!
After launching a political murder and torture campaign. Supported by Washington. Including a car bombing right in Washington DC itself that killed an American citizen.
Pretty funny how Milton Friedman educates Peter Jay about economics of his own country.
I'm google-ing "Marlene Dietrich legs"
Just came into the comments for this haha
We have all benefited from them!
lol same
55:26 ...Absolutely brilliant! Man, we could really use another Dr Milton Friedman these days...
Sorry but he singing the wrong tune about non intervention by the capitalist state. The bosses will need the state all that much more as the long retreat by labor has ended. .
Lol if only these fools could've looked forward to today. Milton is timeless.
I am a simple man I see Sowell or Friedman and i click and absorb
William Sowell is such a breath of fresh air in these "discussions". He talks properly about the outcome of processes initiated VS goals. Sowell seems to puts it as: if you put a process in place with these goals in mind, you end up with these negative outcomes. It doesn't mean your goal is bad neccessarily - but the process it sets in motion is bad.
Who ever was taught by that woman got a bad deal
Choices. Thank God we're free enough to make our own choices.
Your comment was written 6 years ago. What do you think now?
Remember when you could have ideas and debate them without being called racist, classist, or an Uncle Toms? I would engage in politics and socioeconomics if this is how the conversations went.
Don't agree with Peter Jay, but I do appreciate him challenging Milton in an intellectually honest way.
53:35 Give me your measures then! .. lol I love that so much
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Created equal stands for the start, not the end. That means not equal out-come.
As you can see the quote is one sentence, the 'created equal' stands for 'right' that can't be taken away.
Damn straight!
Freedom: the final frontier. Freedom of human beings, of individuals to pursue their own values, to live their lives, to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.
Such a good series, I can't get enough.
Wow.. That casino reference, so simple, yet so brilliant!
St. Augustine: 'The primary motive for obedience should be love of justice rather than fear of punishment.' (Essential Sermons) [relates to 24:49]
I adore Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell.
"Just a small loss of freedom." Thanks, british guy. Just let the government peck away at your freedom. Oh, that's how it's happened throughout history? Interesting.
I love the sparring Sowell did. He's absolutely right.
2022 - who's watching this timeless truth?
thomas sowell and milton freedman are my 2 favorite people ever in the world of politics.
This series is possibly the most important documentary ever made. Every high school should show this doc in class.
Ok, but seriously, I cannot get over Thomas Sowell's body language.
His exasperated shrugs are hilarious.
One of the things I love about this dialogue is that the participants (unlike some with inferior ability and thought making certain comments here) are able to present and defend their position with deep thought, logical assertion, historical and contemporary perspective, and factual deliniation, but most importantly without retreating to name calling, demonization, and disrespect.
People who own property are a threat to other people? Does this woman live in reality???
The british dude is suffering from a case of pure NaCl
Well yeah he doesn't even know labour advocated Keynesian economics to the world before this.
He has no self awareness at all
43:00
Sowell: OMAE WA...WO NO SHINDERU!
Piven: NANI?!?
What even did I just type?
I shouldn't be allowed to mix memes with economics...
Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell are my heroes!
Since this series was produced. South Korea, and many other Asian countries have pulled their masses out of the gutters and into first world prosperity through the free market. And chili is the only prosperous country in South American and the most equal again through the free market.
Thomas Sowell is amazing. I'm guessing that Frances Fox Piven didn't leave in a cheerful mood after being philosophically destroyed to the applause of the spectators.
Props to the oil guy.
Sad thing. He got killed.
and now they number many that demand absolute equality. one step, two steps, three steps, more.
I cannot get enough of Thomas Sowell. Recently bought his book 'Intellectuals and Society' and cannot wait to read it. He's in my top 3 favourite economists
He is in my top 1 favorite economists. :-) I just finished Black and highly recommend it to everyone! If only it had been taught in high school for the past 15 years, we would have a far more enlightened electorate in America.
The debate continues... only now we grunt and scream at one another, and teach the public to do the same.
Imagine having the powerhouses of Friedman and Sowell at the same time. We need the next generation of these people
How many Tom Sowells or for that matter, Barack Obamas have been among the 54 million abortions since Roe? Or Steve Jobs?
@@bradsteraz The ruling class though away the neoliberal mask with the crisis of 2008. All that talk of how capitalism could work without intervention went out the window.
Just to point out that Peter Jay is defending the policies of his father in law, the Prime Minister James Callaghan. So he would say that.
This was filmed in 1980 shortly after Thatcher has kicked Callaghan out of No 10 Downing Street.
“Tilting at windmills” “nobody takes that position” well here we are in 2021 and the VP of USA is saying just that (equality of outcome)!!!
Sowell and Friedman do a lot of good for themselves by just remaining calm while they speak; because the more emotional, loud, and belligerent their counterparts become, the more docile, collected and credible they appear in contrast. I always notice that the leftists are always more angrily finger-pointing than their opposition.
Today Chile is one of the more prosperous nations in South America. They aren't perfect, but with no natural resources, they're doing far better than Venezuela.
So relevant in 2021-2022.
Thomas Sowell : Miltons Bulldog.
+John Smith Thomas Sowell : Sowell's Bulldog
I wouldnt say he's a bulldog. I would say they are Batman and Robin. :)
Holy minimum wage, FriedMan!
She never answered the question.
28:36, When frances piven argues that free people are a threat to the freedom of people, so a government needs to oppress them. WOW
Delighted to see that Jimmie "J.J." Walker was in the audience that night.
Wild that this debate is still going on and these issues are still prevalent in our conversations.
The point he makes about how people resent the inheritance of money and not the inheritance of talents....
You know, if it were possible to confiscate talents and redistribute them, I bet people would....
+jwestonmoss exactly
I look at this video and I have no doubt in my mind why Peter Jay's marriage fell apart. He is totally in love with himself and his ideas.
I totally agree with you. These debates are so raw, I love their passion. There is nothing like this on TV now. Everything now is so edited and so politically correct.
I'm in love with this series
You stated it damit! Damit!
Lmao, Sowell at 52:20
43:13 - Woman Please!
41.50 Thomas Sowell absolutely magnificent.
I love how they are talking about evidence
Friedman used a maximally simple and extreme example of 0% inequality for audience to better understand his point. However the British ambassador and the mediator were so proud to point at genius'es alleged error that they completely missed the point. I would satisfy their error appetite by replying that of course no politicians are claiming to achieve 0% inequality. Most often they avoid precise numbers, but they probably wouldn't object that I put in their mouths a wish to achieve at least 24% inequality (least Gini index that has been achieved by a real country - Denmark!). But that doesn't change the argument - should government intervene in order to achieve 0%, or 10%, or 24%, or whatever level of inequality?
Why are socialist intellectuals always so angry?
cause they judge the world and reality based on their values and moral stands. they believe that through all the knowledge and education they have, they know what is good and best for anyone. their perspective is limited cause they cant accept the fact that something that such a morally high person, philosopher , art critic can be anyhow mistaken. they truly believe that they have ability to educate people of the world and show them the true path, and after taking over and creating a perfect state, these people will appreciate their new life.
Because their worldview is based on what Nietzsche called "ressentiment." They are a kind of priestly class of the weak who have figured out a way to enrich themselves by railing against the gifted, the bold, the brave and the strong. See Hillary Clinton for a prime example. Frances Fox Piven also likely influenced Obama:
www.nationalreview.com/corner/303353/when-obama-met-piven-stanley-kurtz
Because socialism does not exist and they are not intellectuals.
We are still waiting for a socialist theory on inflation, stagflation, price theory, etc.
They say their stuff has nothing to do with Marx (who first coined socialism in the 1800s) wtf...
so we are still today waiting for any theory.
They are trying to claim any government funded social program is socialism.
Absolute nonsense they can't claim that, there was programs in ancient Egypt 🤣
They are masters of delusion.
Any loss of freedom is not worth and gain in equality of outcome
where was this oil eater when we needed it? freemarket shit like that is amazing and what we need!
Peter Jay talks awful a lot thus he actually says nothing much of an important
jesus.... imagine if we had these debates/discussions today.... haha we might learn something!
Tom's reaction to Piven's rationale (53:04) is hilarious. "How did she get invited to this?"
Friedman has seen into the future on this. Today equality of outcome (as it is called today) is now wreaking havoc in society.
Man, you can see the anger seething out from the Marxist Frances Fox Piven. That's why she brought up Chile.
Tom Sowell wrecks the Commie Piven.
+Deadbeat Pennyless and of course Chile's economic freedom under Pinochet was something that University of Chicago students from Chile who were followers of Friedman played a considerable role in. She really wanted to dig it in against him in an area he was indirectly involved in. But of course Chile was better able to succeed once they had political freedom. Now they are the most prosperous country in South America. Vindication especially compared to Brazil and not to mention the autocratic Venezuela.He really had to emphasize he does not condone the junta. Of course he did visit in '75 with Pinochet. She did not specifically go there and I think the moderator was good to move on. Nevertheless Sowell and he are a great team in these.
It was astounding how she was unable to provide an alternative method than capitalism that would be more beneficial to society.
Just think, that old bitch was able to teach that horse sh!t in a University.
I cringe harder at her than at Jeremy Piven
Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Dianne Feinstein, Michael Moore, Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, Melissa Harris-Perry, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Juan Williams, Piers Morgan and Alec Baldwin dislike this video.
You forgot Nancy Pelosi, Hillary and Bill (and his mistresses) Clinton and Bernie Sanders
History absolutely repeats itself and the wisest among us tend to predict the future through it's lens as if they are using a time machine.
They're both so brilliant
43:00 Sowell absolutely roasted Piven there
I wonder what happened to that entrepreneur with the oil soaking product.
+Siegetower Unfortunately, it didn't go anywhere. He was later killed by the husband of the woman he was sleeping with.
junkb0x ! That's terrible. Can't go past human nature can we. I guess the invention went no-where, not patented or licensed for anyone to produce, parts of it locked in the brain of the deceased inventor.
Thanks for replying,
+junkb0x ! Thats honestly a sad story. A great lesson to be learnt though.
I don't know what happened to him but the product was already on the market in the 70's and our company made a lot of money with it. we used to buy it by the semi truck load. we were in the oil recovery business using this very same product. this all took place before he made the video. desperate people do desperate things!
BIgBass255 Good to know, thanks. Amazing that you found this video.
such great content
milton was so ahead of time that only today we see what he was pointing at