When discussing this first Sabbath album it should be remembered that it was recorded on a shoe-string budget purportedly in one massive 12 hour session with one day given over to mixing. The results are incredible for an album that was recorded and mixed in two days. Producer Rodger Bain should be given due credit for making the album sound as good as it does regardless of the edition. All this to say that it doesn't really make much sense to discuss the album in audiophile terms. I would have thought any comparison of pressings would actually focus more on the packaging, design and content (bonus tracks etc) than the sound, which was intended at the time of recording to be raw, heavy and immediate. It is entirely possible a high fidelity mastering might overly cleanse those essential ingredients.
I really respect your ears and the time you put into this Mike. But I gotta say my UK vertigo swirl (3rd press, so maybe slightly different than yours) sounded a lot better than the Rhino on my ears and system. I heard a lot more of that decay you were talking about on the cymbals with the vertigo, and the drums had a bit more impact, even if the bass on the rhino was better. But now I want to go back and do the comparison again 😅
I completely agree with this comment, I have a 3rd pressing vertigo and a white label US promo copy and the vertigo is just a little bit better than the US (albeit a bit groove worn on the inner tracks so my US copy tends to be my go to copy). Also I’m very interested in the fact that he did not like the 2010 AAA Rhino. I had that one and thought it sounded pretty great, and imo it was better than a clean 1970 US greenie I had. Different strokes for different folks I guess!
Thanks for the video. I completely agree that the US 1st pressing sounds marvelous, but I completely disagree about putting the UK 1st pressing behind on place 5(?????)…I much rather prefer the sound of the UK. The US 1st pressing is my 2nd favorite one.
I have to say my UK Vertigo 1st press , and US Artisan green Warner's sounds better than the Rhino hifi to my ears . The Rhino is no slouch , as it still sounds good .
I bought my US 1st pressing the month it was released. I joined a record club, remember you could get 6 LP's for $1- if you bought one release per month for a year, anyway I bought this originally because of the cover. I had no idea who Black Sabbath was at the time, needless to say after I got this and listened to it, I bought Paranoid and Master of Reality when they were released too. I still have them 50 years on and they still sound pretty good, although Paranoid and MOR really lack top end.
When Chuck Berry’s cousin call’s him up in “Back to the Future” and says you know that new sound you have been looking for, as Marty McFly does his best CB impression, well that’s how I felt when I heard the album. I still remember that day in 1970 when I was in a record store and saw the cover of the album. Never heard of them and as a HS Sophomore I bought it. I was life changing. Sure we had Cream, Hendrix, Steppenwolf but this was the sound I was searching for. I bought Paranoid immediately upon release later that year. Sabbath was my band. Then unfortunately when Master if Reality came out I was spending the summer of 71 in Europe. I remember going into a shop in Switzerland and listening to the album at one of their Kiosk’s. It was so cool in their box style sleeve but when I returned I went to buy it only the box style sleeve was replaced for the US. Thankfully I’m been a record nerd since the sixties always treating my records like they were the Eucharist, so my original artisan pressing is as new with the still shrink wrapped cover.
I am lucky enough to have a True Near Mint 1970 Artisan cut. I have a record dealer buddy who found it for me. And it sounds Amazing! I Knew It! I KNEW the Rhino hifi version couldn’t be That much better, especially enough to pay Discogs flippers for it. I also had a feeling the OG Vertigo isn’t better either. Thanks for confirming my suspicions with this review! I’m so glad I stuck with my beautiful 1970 Artisan pressing. I don’t need any other pressing of it.
I know this may be an unpopular opinion but I like the 2012 Rhino remaster done by Andy Perece and cut by Sean Magee. It from the original analogue tapes and was reissued in 2016 and is about $25.00 I know affordable copies seem to be frowned up here. But not everyone has a system costing more then six figures
I have a clean warner green label, the disc almost looks new and the case is in very decent shape. Got it for 22 Canadian about 8 years ago. Very happy.
Before I watched this I watched a review that made the new Rhino Version sound awful, saying it's too bright, lacks moody atmosphere and even saying "the rain at the beginning sounds fake". This has me doubting that review, but I also have no desire to buy it because I have an original green label in great condition and I prefer owning vintage copies anyway.
Great video, Mike! I'd love to see that Master of Reality shootout, especially if you can compare the VMP reissue to a UK Vertigo copy. Any chance we will see a shootout between a UK first pressing of the Yes Album, a 1970s reissue, and the most recent Analogue Productions 45 RPM reissue?
Nice video and great conversation Mike. I have a 1st press UK Vertigo (very 1st with the "Philips" on the label) and a US White Label Promo - I've always thought the US pressing sounded better - heavier bass, better sound separation, crisper highs. Not better by a mile but enough to allow a clear preference for the US press to my ears. Also to note, it's not just this debut S/T record but Master of Reality & Paranoid I also prefer to US/WLP to the original UK Vertigo. Would be keen to hear how you think those titles compare US v UK 1sts. Again great video mate, cheers! - Nate
Hi Mike! Since you kindly asked me today what system is and I don't have a way to write to you, here is my system. Technics 1200G with Cardas Audio cables and a Vertere Sabre cartridge. Preamp is a GoldNote PH 10 with its power supply. My amp is a NAIM AUDIO Supernait 2 with a NAIM AUDIO HiCap DR. My speakers are NAIM AUDIO S-Ovators 400. Of course it's no match against yours, but pretty awesome and revealing too. Cheers, Thor
What most people don’t realize is there are 2 Warner green labels. The earlier one is a square box with just a blue W with red surrounding it inside the box and a lighter shade of green. The second greenie is a shield shape logo with WB inside it, with the same color schemes but the green is darker.
Nice - I would like to make my own comparisons - but my copy - ordered on May 20th - still hasn't shipped!!! - and the RHINO BOTS (aka customer service) - don't provide any answers. Rhino -you made 5,000 copies of one of the best Rock albums of all time - and you weren't prepared to ship it??? C'mon!
Dude. I had the same problem back when I ordered. Funny story: they’re so bad at shipping, I got frustrated and eventually canceled. Guess what I got in the mail last week? At random? They refunded me, and it still shipped.
Hey Rocco, indeed it’s a very poor handling. I only have a copy after some pressure. Pretty bad that they are announcing titles next month and haven’t shipped the May ones…. Be patient. Felipe
I bought my US Green label from a guy at collage in 78 for a buck. Its in at least VG+ condition. I have not put it on since recieving the Rhino. I bought it from Rhino for 50 bucks. The most I have ever paid for a new lp. Its stunning.
I don’t have the uk original, but do have the original US, and compared it to the new Rhino. I prefer the US original, it just has more balls, better bass. Will gift the Rhino to my daughter, it is good but not the best. My 2 cents.
Great review, my opinions differ's and I can see if your coming from an audiophile view you would go for the pressings that have more top end as you will hear more clarity, bigger sound stage etc and because Kevin's top end is never harsh it might be a better listen for some, but I don’t think this album is meant to have that much topend its meant to be more centre focused and a rolled off sound that makes it sound more sabbath for me. I have UK swirl, 2012 an old Aussie pressing and the RHF
Ordered mine on 5/18 and I'm still waiting for it. Best part is I told my boss about it and he ordered it on 5/20 or 5/21 and he already received his on Monday (6/10). How the hell does that work? I have several other RHF pressings and they're great but the PAY and PRAY ordering process is completely unacceptable in 2024.
I have a NM copy of the first U.S. press on the green WB label; it does sound really good. Haven't heard the Vertigo first UK, so I can't comment on that one. Most people say that the Vertigo pressings of Sabbath's early albums are the go to pressings for best quality. I do have a NM first Vertigo UK press of Paranoid, and it's killer. It could be the best sounding record in my entire collection of records.
My Pitman artisan Palm Tree pressing lights my fire, perfectly happy with soundstage and separation. When i first heard it, I had that magic feeling of damn I came across one of those special discs.
I believe that some of Palm Tree Label 2nd pressings are also Artisan stampers So which European or Japanese copy would you recommend? The WWA release should use the original UK Vertigo Stampers as well at a fraction of the price
Just double checked mine, I've got the Artisan logo 1970 pressed at Terre Haute. It's the only one I've ever heard on LP and I've always found it wonderful sounding. Strong VG+. Glad I decided not to preorder the Rhino. Thanks, Mike.
I'm sorry to report this record was sold out day 6 after the preorder was posted. I don't have any Black Sabbath in my record collection. I had been buying all of these Rhino High Fidelity rock albums and this was sold out in under a week on both American and Canadian site. So very disappointed. Somehow, it got advertised directly online to Black Sabbath fans. I see several on Discogs and Ebay at ridiculous flipper prices that I will not pay. I will never give in to these opportunists. Very disappointing experience this round. Rhino should have limited one per customer or set the pressing number higher. Thank you for your review. Maybe some day I will obtain an audiophile Black Sabbath pressing. I email Rhino and never hear back.
The one thing I don’t think gets mentioned enough or at all in these videos on Rhino Mofi record releases is if your system is mediocre or less that’s what your going to hear no matter what the pressing is so defeating the purpose for paying for these prices on the better record, now on the other side you have above average system or better with a great pressing bingo now you get a great listening experience just my opinion
I don't have a Vertigo, but I agree with you 100% on the US WB green label vs. the Rhino. The WB Artisan is a 9/10, where the Rhino is a 10/10. I felt the Rhino had a little more 'body' to it, not necessarily low end, but mid-lowish punch. I also made 29/96 comparison files of the two, and the spectrograms showed slightly higher frequencies in the original WB pressing, but not by much. Thanks for the review Mike!
Yes, my copy has the Artisan stamps! Pitman pressing. It's a solid VG. I'm sure it would be listed as VG+ on Discogs. The cover is a beauty. Estate sale find like 12 years ago. Gotta play it again soon. And those NEMS pressings were godawful. I remember getting my hands on NM copies of a few Sabbath albums on the NEMS label years ago. I assumed the sound would be incredible since they were UK pressings. I couldn't even stand keeping them on the turntable all the way through. To eBay they went in a lot.
Mine's a Pitman, probably common in the NE area where I live. Mine was a promo bought for 50 cents in a head shop. Jacket is split and taped together and it has plenty a crackle from being played on junk in it's youth, but who cares? When I crank it it still sounds glorious!
Very interesting Mike. The artisan has higher compression levels than the KG cut. The artisan sounds hotter for sure. I am glad I have a green+rhino hifi 👍🏻. Kevin’s is so silky smooth in general.
Huh? I'm really confused here... What is your 3rd or 4th place then? I love your reviews, but that part made no sense. LOL 1) Rhino HiFi 2. US Greenie 3)? 4)? 5)UK Vertigo??? 😅 I'm totally shocked to hear your ranking and always thought the UK Vertigo was the gold standard. Don't get me wrong, the OG greenie is really, _really_ good and holds its own against the Rhino HiFi, IMHO. Sometimes I prefer the Rhino, then other times I like the Greenie more, depending on the song and what part of the song. I don't have a UK pressing just yet (though I do have a pbthal rip), but currently have a WWA pressing on the way and am looking forward to redoing my shootout. I paid a whopping $26 for my NM Greenie a few years ago and don't think I could ever part with it. It's gorgeous. Luckily I didn't overpay for the Rhino and snagged one a couple hours after going live. Anway, thanks for the review Mike, I always enjoy hearing your opinion! 😎🍻🤘
If Rhino did Zep IV, the same thing that happened to Acoustic Sounds with the Marley "Exodus" QRP will happened to Rhino. The website will crash and everyone will be extremely pissed. So if they are planning to do it I hope they press more copies.
Haven’t been able to own any of the ones Mike mentioned. Hopefully Rhino represses these soon (or not). Until then I’ll try to find either a UK/US press, I’ve even read on Discogs that the 1980 Japanese NEMS pressings are highly regarded.
I completely differ with Mike's views on the Rhino 2010 Ron McMaster all-analogue cut, that version has an insane high end to the point that it sounds way too bright, but it still retains the mid range, it kinda reminds me of Kevin Gray's cut of Paranoid, same approach almost. However, Kevin's 2024 cut is even brighter and more detailed, but to me it stops sounding like a Sabbath record at that point.
I'm listening to the UK and US first pressings right now and they both sound fantastic! With my small system I can't tell the difference. I'm not going to spend $150 on a new pressing, that's for sure.
The cheapest price that I found on ebay UK, was £47.49, reduced to £43.69, once the coupon offer was added. £43.69 = $56.45.... Not as sold out, as some have stated, and not as expensive...Yet!!
Enjoyed the video Mike. I have a 1970 Pitman OG (green Warner label) with the Artisan stamp. That is what you mean by Artisan version, correct? Thanks. I was lucky enough to get the Rhino version. It just showed up today 😅. Ordered it when it first was advertised a few weeks ago. I honestly did not think it would show up. Can’t wait to listen
Yes my UK Vertigo first pressing big swirl on label sounds better than the Rhino on my system and my 58 year old ears. The track listing on the Rhino is just not right as me in the UK is just so use to the Vertigo pressing.
I have a first press US terre haute with artisan symbol in VG+ (I mean an honest VG+ which is basically flawless). Never cared about to get any other press. I think this video agrees.
No no no. The steps going from the lacquer, to the metal master, to the mother, to the stamper are never considered additional "generations" away from the master tape.
@@DonTFiftyEightI’ve always thought that Mofi’s one step process was BS but Bernie Grundman said he has had tests made using three step and one step processes and the one step was better
The steps from lacquer to metal to vinyl are absolutely generations. People pay a premium for better quality metalwork and pressing plants to help minimize generational loss.
Unless we are discussing "one steps", every record goes thru the same number of steps. Some plants do it better than other plants, but the count is the same for every record made.
I just kind of find it funny that a lot of people in the audiophile community are obsessed over this. It was recorded in 2 days and I don’t think was recorded to be an audiophile recording Probably hard to agree on the BEST recording!!
It’s apples and oranges. I liked Sabbath way before most of these newish in groove audiophiles bought RHF’s and I always thought Vertigo’s and US greenies kicked ass and it never occurred to me to even care which was better because I loved them all. All this is just OPINION anyways. I like how some of these people in the comments suddenly can definitively say they wouldn’t want a UK Vertigo just cuz Mike says so. Use your own ears folks.
I disagree. My 2nd press NM UK Vertigo sounds amazing! It ranks up there with my audiophile records. The soundstage is huuuge and the clarity and detail are amazing.
@@TheInGroove I had 1st press green, mid 80s represses, 2014 Rhinos, WWA press that used Vertigo plates...my UK kills them all. I am waiting for the RHINO HIFI from Fedex. Their shipping blows. Your video has me excited to compare
@@TheInGroove Strange comment Mike- you admittedly considered the Vertigo the 'best' compared to everything you had up to this Rhino HiFi release. No vacuum required lol.
Where the record was pressed is important. I have had issues with records pressed at Optimal Media. I digitize my records and listen very deeply and carefully. One thing I've noticed with Optimal pressings is that they obviously don't use as high a quality of vinyl as we have available in the U.S. The Optimal pressings have an underlying surface noise, easily detectable in the intro, deadwax and in-between tracks. It is more obtrusive than an RTI or QRP pressing. Going back to the 1970 Artisan version. Again, where it was pressed is a factor. Most copies were pressed in the U.S. by Columbia Records and of their many plants, the best one would be Columbia, Santa Maria. They tended to use a higher quality of vinyl which we would call virgin vinyl today. If you were comparing a common Terra Haute pressing to the new RHF pressing, if instead you compared it to a Santa maria pressing, you might determine that it would be superior to the RHF pressing.
@@mazzysmusic Excuse me? My hearing is not what it used to be but I can hear the roaring ocean in quiet passages and the areas that are supposed to be silent. You know, like when you hold a seashell up to your ear? I can identify an Optimal pressing from the ptch of the surface noise listening through my Sony MDR headphones. Of the 9 or 10 different cartridges I use, it's the cheaper ones which tend to mask the noise. My "go-to" cartridge is the Shure M97xe, with a genuine Shure stylus, like the one most of the people who make the audiophile records we but use. It's good to hear that there is someone deafer than I am!
@@automatedelectronics6062 I believe you, but I haven’t heard your copies All these rhino HiFi copies I have (six) are dead silent. . Maybe my rig? Either way they are exceptional. Rega P8 Hana Umami blue MC cart. What can I say. 🤷🏻♂️
@@mazzysmusic I don't think that there would be too much difference in sound with different copies of the same pressing. Outside of physical defects. I exchange lot's of new records I buy because of defects resulting in ticks and pops. Those pressed by Optimal are a common exchange. I don't remember having to exchange anything pressed by Pallas. They use a higher quality of vinyl like we have in the U.S. Even 60 years ago I was very particular with my records and exchanged many before I got a copy which was suitable to me. The record stores hated me. Even in the early CD age, there were lot's of re-cordings out there which I considered an insult to me and to the original recordings. As far as the surface noise I complain about, it is easily seen when I record it and then look at a graph when I am putting the finishing touches on before saving it. Some things can be fixed. Even if you can't hear something, you can see that it is actually there on the graph. As far as playback equipment goes, I try to stick with "average joe" or a little above equipment. All well-known respected brands. This is usually what the people who make the records we buy use and is the way they intend it to sound. Why spend money on something which gives you marginally better performance? I take that extra money I might have spent on equipment and buy more records instead. One thing I start with is the same turntables and cartridges they use. When Technics re-introduced the SL-1200, they did make considerable improvements, but they didn't touch the tone arm design. When I see all these new, supposedly state of the art, turntables, when I see a straight tone arm, it is an immediate turn-off for me. I mean, look at the cheapest entry-level turntables out there now, and what do they have? Straight shaft tone arms, like the latest schoolhouse record players used. Suspension aside, why ignore the basic tone arm design. Heck, my 1947 Capehart console, with the flip-over record changer, has a tubular "J" style metal tone arm, with a removeable headshell and modern GE magnetic cartridge. That was 1947. It's 2024 now.
Great review, I just got my copy a week ago and I was extremely pleased with the sound of it, dead quiet too. One thing that confused me though is you kept saying it was $150 but it was only $40. Maybe you meant $150 is the secondary market value but they were only $40 new at Rhino.
YES. That's what he means. He's selling The Cars Rhino HiFi LP for $249.99 USD. This Black Sabbath sold out in less than six days. I was able to get The Cars from Warner Brothers Canada (without corner dings), but I have yet to have any Black Sabbath in my record collection and would have loved to have this. I don't know what Rhino was thinking about with such a limited pressing. I email them and get no reply.
Oh love this what a great shootout Mike is the man. I’m blessed to have a NM wwa copy that in my opinion, is slightly better than the rhino, but with that said the rhino absolutely kicks ass and is no question the best copy of that version (ie the American one)
I competed the new Rhino HiFi to my 2010 rhino and a of green Canadian samosas the OG US. The OG was tops but not by much. The HiFi a close seconds and very good when you crank it. The 210 was last. I didn’t like it after hearing the other two next to it so I’ll be trading it in
Great video. Thanks. So, with his top recommendation, how many copies of the Rhino does Mike have ready to sell at $249 (= his Rhino Cars copy for sale)....?! LOL! :-)
Can you really review albums after listening to them over twenty times? I would think your hearing would not be nearly as good later on in the session. Hearing fatigue def can set in, especially in the highs you say you don't hear on many records.
Yeah cant agree on this one. I got my non numbered one in today and it’s way too bright and lacks any heft or thickness to the bottom end. Good separation and clarity but thats all really. I’ll be seeking out better OG pressings.
When discussing this first Sabbath album it should be remembered that it was recorded on a shoe-string budget purportedly in one massive 12 hour session with one day given over to mixing. The results are incredible for an album that was recorded and mixed in two days. Producer Rodger Bain should be given due credit for making the album sound as good as it does regardless of the edition. All this to say that it doesn't really make much sense to discuss the album in audiophile terms. I would have thought any comparison of pressings would actually focus more on the packaging, design and content (bonus tracks etc) than the sound, which was intended at the time of recording to be raw, heavy and immediate. It is entirely possible a high fidelity mastering might overly cleanse those essential ingredients.
I really respect your ears and the time you put into this Mike. But I gotta say my UK vertigo swirl (3rd press, so maybe slightly different than yours) sounded a lot better than the Rhino on my ears and system. I heard a lot more of that decay you were talking about on the cymbals with the vertigo, and the drums had a bit more impact, even if the bass on the rhino was better. But now I want to go back and do the comparison again 😅
I completely agree with this comment, I have a 3rd pressing vertigo and a white label US promo copy and the vertigo is just a little bit better than the US (albeit a bit groove worn on the inner tracks so my US copy tends to be my go to copy). Also I’m very interested in the fact that he did not like the 2010 AAA Rhino. I had that one and thought it sounded pretty great, and imo it was better than a clean 1970 US greenie I had. Different strokes for different folks I guess!
I was really really hoping for this video. I think this is some of the best content you do and look forward to every rock record shootout
On the right you can see Darth Vader's original speakers! He had a lot of them on his death star because he loved black metal hehe
Thanks for the video. I completely agree that the US 1st pressing sounds marvelous, but I completely disagree about putting the UK 1st pressing behind on place 5(?????)…I much rather prefer the sound of the UK. The US 1st pressing is my 2nd favorite one.
I have to say my UK Vertigo 1st press , and US Artisan green Warner's sounds better than the Rhino hifi to my ears . The Rhino is no slouch , as it still sounds good .
I think the Rhino is too thin up top and wimpy in the bass and drums department. I am surprised Mike did not address this.
@Thunderbird139 Glad you're happy.
I bought my US 1st pressing the month it was released. I joined a record club, remember you could get 6 LP's for $1- if you bought one release per month for a year, anyway I bought this originally because of the cover. I had no idea who Black Sabbath was at the time, needless to say after I got this and listened to it, I bought Paranoid and Master of Reality when they were released too. I still have them 50 years on and they still sound pretty good, although Paranoid and MOR really lack top end.
Thank you. First for doing an iconic metal album second for giving the 1st US pressing some love. I have four copies and they all sound great.
Yep, this confirms what I have been screaming from the mountain tops for the last 2 weeks. What a time to be alive, just incredible.
the UK Vertigo 1st press imho is the best
I have the 1997 Castle Communications UK pressing with a bonus "Evil woman" 45 single. For me sounds great
Hoping for a Paranoid video
When Chuck Berry’s cousin call’s him up in “Back to the Future” and says you know that new sound you have been looking for, as Marty McFly does his best CB impression, well that’s how I felt when I heard the album.
I still remember that day in 1970 when I was in a record store and saw the cover of the album. Never heard of them and as a HS Sophomore I bought it. I was life changing. Sure we had Cream, Hendrix, Steppenwolf but this was the sound I was searching for.
I bought Paranoid immediately upon release later that year. Sabbath was my band. Then unfortunately when Master if Reality came out I was spending the summer of 71 in Europe. I remember going into a shop in Switzerland and listening to the album at one of their Kiosk’s. It was so cool in their box style sleeve but when I returned I went to buy it only the box style sleeve was replaced for the US.
Thankfully I’m been a record nerd since the sixties always treating my records like they were the Eucharist, so my original artisan pressing is as new with the still shrink wrapped cover.
I am lucky enough to have a True Near Mint 1970 Artisan cut. I have a record dealer buddy who found it for me. And it sounds Amazing! I Knew It! I KNEW the Rhino hifi version couldn’t be That much better, especially enough to pay Discogs flippers for it. I also had a feeling the OG Vertigo isn’t better either. Thanks for confirming my suspicions with this review! I’m so glad I stuck with my beautiful 1970 Artisan pressing. I don’t need any other pressing of it.
I know this may be an unpopular opinion but I like the 2012 Rhino remaster done by Andy Perece and cut by Sean Magee. It from the original analogue tapes and was reissued in 2016 and is about $25.00
I know affordable copies seem to be frowned up here. But not everyone has a system costing more then six figures
The 2016 reissue that he talked about first uses the same plates as that 2012
That’s the one he said was last. I had heard one of those Sean Magee cuts and I wasn’t impressed either.
I have a clean warner green label, the disc almost looks new and the case is in very decent shape. Got it for 22 Canadian about 8 years ago. Very happy.
I’ve done A/B comparisons with vinyl and cds as well. It’s very interesting hearing the differences in mastering in both formats.
I have a 2001 UK sanctuary that is absolutely amazing.
Mike can you tell about fragile of yes please
Can you do a video like this for Paranoid and some of their other albums?
Before I watched this I watched a review that made the new Rhino Version sound awful, saying it's too bright, lacks moody atmosphere and even saying "the rain at the beginning sounds fake". This has me doubting that review, but I also have no desire to buy it because I have an original green label in great condition and I prefer owning vintage copies anyway.
Great video, Mike! I'd love to see that Master of Reality shootout, especially if you can compare the VMP reissue to a UK Vertigo copy. Any chance we will see a shootout between a UK first pressing of the Yes Album, a 1970s reissue, and the most recent Analogue Productions 45 RPM reissue?
Nice video and great conversation Mike. I have a 1st press UK Vertigo (very 1st with the "Philips" on the label) and a US White Label Promo - I've always thought the US pressing sounded better - heavier bass, better sound separation, crisper highs. Not better by a mile but enough to allow a clear preference for the US press to my ears.
Also to note, it's not just this debut S/T record but Master of Reality & Paranoid I also prefer to US/WLP to the original UK Vertigo. Would be keen to hear how you think those titles compare US v UK 1sts.
Again great video mate, cheers! - Nate
Mike have you heard the 2009 UK Deluxe vinyl editions? I am curious how they stack up against the 2016 deluxe editions
Hi Mike! Since you kindly asked me today what system is and I don't have a way to write to you, here is my system.
Technics 1200G with Cardas Audio cables and a Vertere Sabre cartridge.
Preamp is a GoldNote PH 10 with its power supply.
My amp is a NAIM AUDIO Supernait 2 with a NAIM AUDIO HiCap DR. My speakers are NAIM AUDIO S-Ovators 400.
Of course it's no match against yours, but pretty awesome and revealing too.
Cheers, Thor
What most people don’t realize is there are 2 Warner green labels. The earlier one is a square box with just a blue W with red surrounding it inside the box and a lighter shade of green. The second greenie is a shield shape logo with WB inside it, with the same color schemes but the green is darker.
I now have to check for this. Also the first pressing incorrectly credits Sabbath with writing Warning.
I wouldn't expect much (if any) difference between the two.
Not for this album. Only the shield.
@@OwlsRNotWhatTheySeem I own one of the boxed logos. Never noticed it before pulling it and checking the deadwax information. It’s a U.S. pressing
@@Onteo1 W7 logo for this record? That's not normal. Might be some weird club issue thing, like the 2 tone label for Neil Youngs after the gold rush
Nice - I would like to make my own comparisons - but my copy - ordered on May 20th - still hasn't shipped!!! - and the RHINO BOTS (aka customer service) - don't provide any answers. Rhino -you made 5,000 copies of one of the best Rock albums of all time - and you weren't prepared to ship it??? C'mon!
They are very slow at their shipping. I just received notice my order has shipped. I did not order this one.
I ordered on 5/18 and haven't received it. ;(
Dude. I had the same problem back when I ordered. Funny story: they’re so bad at shipping, I got frustrated and eventually canceled. Guess what I got in the mail last week? At random? They refunded me, and it still shipped.
Hey Rocco, indeed it’s a very poor handling. I only have a copy after some pressure. Pretty bad that they are announcing titles next month and haven’t shipped the May ones…. Be patient. Felipe
I got the same email
The 1985 German Castle/NEMS pressed at Sonopress should be considered for one of the best
Rhino just reissued this as unnumbered RHF versions. $39.98 from their online store. Thanks Mike. Grab them while you can
I bought my US Green label from a guy at collage in 78 for a buck. Its in at least VG+ condition. I have not put it on since recieving the Rhino. I bought it from Rhino for 50 bucks. The most I have ever paid for a new lp. Its stunning.
I don’t have the uk original, but do have the original US, and compared it to the new Rhino. I prefer the US original, it just has more balls, better bass. Will gift the Rhino to my daughter, it is good but not the best. My 2 cents.
20:51 ...Raises hand slowly.... I feel lucky for finding it. 2019, picked for $75 in a local shop's bin. It's everything you say it is.
I have a pretty clean Artisan so I’m not too sad I waited to long on Rhino
I thought Ron McMaster used a digital preview head to cut from the tapes which makes it a digital cut.
The uk vertigo was so good, its like they are playing in my living room
Great review, my opinions differ's and I can see if your coming from an audiophile view you would go for the pressings that have more top end as you will hear more clarity, bigger sound stage etc and because Kevin's top end is never harsh it might be a better listen for some, but I don’t think this album is meant to have that much topend its meant to be more centre focused and a rolled off sound that makes it sound more sabbath for me.
I have UK swirl, 2012 an old Aussie pressing and the RHF
Ordered mine on 5/18 and I'm still waiting for it. Best part is I told my boss about it and he ordered it on 5/20 or 5/21 and he already received his on Monday (6/10). How the hell does that work? I have several other RHF pressings and they're great but the PAY and PRAY ordering process is completely unacceptable in 2024.
I know Ron Mcmaster has been around a long time cutting records, but I’ve never heard anything he cut that sounds good to my ears. 🤷♂️
I’ve had a 1976 NEMS French pressing for the last twenty years. I didn’t think it sounded bad at all. Got the Rhino last week. Pretty big difference.
I have a NM copy of the first U.S. press on the green WB label; it does sound really good. Haven't heard the Vertigo first UK, so I can't comment on that one. Most people say that the Vertigo pressings of Sabbath's early albums are the go to pressings for best quality. I do have a NM first Vertigo UK press of Paranoid, and it's killer. It could be the best sounding record in my entire collection of records.
My Pitman artisan Palm Tree pressing lights my fire, perfectly happy with soundstage and separation. When i first heard it, I had that magic feeling of damn I came across one of those special discs.
Some Palm Trees use the original metal, but most are a lesser-sounding recut.
@@TheInGroove You should have mentioned that in the video :)
I also commented on that above
I believe that some of Palm Tree Label 2nd pressings are also Artisan stampers
So which European or Japanese copy would you recommend?
The WWA release should use the original UK Vertigo Stampers as well at a fraction of the price
Yes, some later U.S. pressing (palm tree and beige labels) use the original Artisan stampers.
I like what Kevin did here, but wouldn’t this have been the ideal record to do on his all-tube system ala War’s Greatest Hits?
Just double checked mine, I've got the Artisan logo 1970 pressed at Terre Haute. It's the only one I've ever heard on LP and I've always found it wonderful sounding. Strong VG+. Glad I decided not to preorder the Rhino. Thanks, Mike.
I'm sorry to report this record was sold out day 6 after the preorder was posted. I don't have any Black Sabbath in my record collection. I had been buying all of these Rhino High Fidelity rock albums and this was sold out in under a week on both American and Canadian site. So very disappointed. Somehow, it got advertised directly online to Black Sabbath fans. I see several on Discogs and Ebay at ridiculous flipper prices that I will not pay. I will never give in to these opportunists. Very disappointing experience this round. Rhino should have limited one per customer or set the pressing number higher. Thank you for your review. Maybe some day I will obtain an audiophile Black Sabbath pressing. I email Rhino and never hear back.
They have released 5,000 more copies how many are left I don't know
The one thing I don’t think gets mentioned enough or at all in these videos on Rhino Mofi record releases is if your system is mediocre or less that’s what your going to hear no matter what the pressing is so defeating the purpose for paying for these prices on the better record, now on the other side you have above average system or better with a great pressing bingo now you get a great listening experience just my opinion
I don't have a Vertigo, but I agree with you 100% on the US WB green label vs. the Rhino. The WB Artisan is a 9/10, where the Rhino is a 10/10. I felt the Rhino had a little more 'body' to it, not necessarily low end, but mid-lowish punch. I also made 29/96 comparison files of the two, and the spectrograms showed slightly higher frequencies in the original WB pressing, but not by much. Thanks for the review Mike!
Yes, my copy has the Artisan stamps! Pitman pressing. It's a solid VG. I'm sure it would be listed as VG+ on Discogs. The cover is a beauty. Estate sale find like 12 years ago.
Gotta play it again soon.
And those NEMS pressings were godawful. I remember getting my hands on NM copies of a few Sabbath albums on the NEMS label years ago. I assumed the sound would be incredible since they were UK pressings. I couldn't even stand keeping them on the turntable all the way through. To eBay they went in a lot.
That's what I have too, a Greenie Pitman artisan pressing. It sounds _killer!_ 🤘
Mine's a Pitman, probably common in the NE area where I live. Mine was a promo bought for 50 cents in a head shop. Jacket is split and taped together and it has plenty a crackle from being played on junk in it's youth, but who cares? When I crank it it still sounds glorious!
Very interesting Mike. The artisan has higher compression levels than the KG cut. The artisan sounds hotter for sure. I am glad I have a green+rhino hifi 👍🏻. Kevin’s is so silky smooth in general.
Huh? I'm really confused here... What is your 3rd or 4th place then? I love your reviews, but that part made no sense. LOL
1) Rhino HiFi
2. US Greenie
3)?
4)?
5)UK Vertigo???
😅 I'm totally shocked to hear your ranking and always thought the UK Vertigo was the gold standard. Don't get me wrong, the OG greenie is really, _really_ good and holds its own against the Rhino HiFi, IMHO. Sometimes I prefer the Rhino, then other times I like the Greenie more, depending on the song and what part of the song. I don't have a UK pressing just yet (though I do have a pbthal rip), but currently have a WWA pressing on the way and am looking forward to redoing my shootout. I paid a whopping $26 for my NM Greenie a few years ago and don't think I could ever part with it. It's gorgeous. Luckily I didn't overpay for the Rhino and snagged one a couple hours after going live. Anway, thanks for the review Mike, I always enjoy hearing your opinion! 😎🍻🤘
Are those Watt puppies? Your walls are very cool. I dig it.
If Rhino did Zep IV, the same thing that happened to Acoustic Sounds with the Marley "Exodus" QRP will happened to Rhino. The website will crash and everyone will be extremely pissed. So if they are planning to do it I hope they press more copies.
Haven’t been able to own any of the ones Mike mentioned. Hopefully Rhino represses these soon (or not). Until then I’ll try to find either a UK/US press, I’ve even read on Discogs that the 1980 Japanese NEMS pressings are highly regarded.
A safety master is cut in tandem to the 'master' and, thusly, a 1a, 1b twin generation.
the Rhino HIFI is the clear winner to me and the artisan second your right man it just has that punch and sound stage
On my new Rhino copy the cymbals are like butter in my ears.
Then you must have a heavy build up of ear wax for those extreme highs to start melting the wax into butter!
Oz that’s not very nice. Haha
@@Jim-zf2lj Thanks! Fanboy c*** is out of control I tell you. Sheep everywhere.
Mike, do you prefer the UK or US tracklist? I've always found that Wicked World fit the album better. I've never came across a mint og US press.
Nobody ever compares the Australian Fontana pressing which is so good it will make your testicles tingle 🥴
You know... You keep bringing up testicles... You're beginning to worry me...
I completely differ with Mike's views on the Rhino 2010 Ron McMaster all-analogue cut, that version has an insane high end to the point that it sounds way too bright, but it still retains the mid range, it kinda reminds me of Kevin Gray's cut of Paranoid, same approach almost. However, Kevin's 2024 cut is even brighter and more detailed, but to me it stops sounding like a Sabbath record at that point.
I JUST PICKED UP A FEW DAYS AGO A MINTY FIRST AMERICAN PRESSING AT PRINCETON RECORD EXCHANGE FOR $50 BUCKS YEA BABY
It's a great pressing. Worth every penny.
Wow they have been around a long time, why did they wait so long to release their first album? Sarcasm Rulz
Loved this shootout! Thanks so much!! New sub.
I own an OG Canadian,.,, wonder how it stacks up ?
OG Canadian is the same plates as US Artisan, so very good 😁👍🏼
@@bryanmorgan758 good to know
The album has a broad soundstage so the bass looses it's 'umph' but it is still there.
Capitol has not had Analog production in-house for a very long time. The Ron was 99.9% likely cut from digital.
U.S. green w/ no seven arts, WB Palm tree, NEMS France black label all sound very nice in my room.
Hi, do you know if I upload a sample from a gramophone record on RUclips, will the video be charged? Thanks
My take on this was very similar although I don’t have a UK Vertigo. I have a quiet VG+ Artisan greenie and have listed my HiFi for sale. 👍🏻
I'm listening to the UK and US first pressings right now and they both sound fantastic! With my small system I can't tell the difference. I'm not going to spend $150 on a new pressing, that's for sure.
The cheapest price that I found on ebay UK, was £47.49, reduced to £43.69, once the coupon offer was added.
£43.69 = $56.45....
Not as sold out, as some have stated, and not as expensive...Yet!!
Enjoyed the video Mike. I have a 1970 Pitman OG (green Warner label) with the Artisan stamp. That is what you mean by Artisan version, correct?
Thanks.
I was lucky enough to get the Rhino version. It just showed up today 😅. Ordered it when it first was advertised a few weeks ago. I honestly did not think it would show up. Can’t wait to listen
Correct.
Mike, tell us what cartridge you use for your shootouts. Maybe included your turntable and phono preamp. Thanks.
ruclips.net/video/ozWwfIsssFw/видео.htmlsi=nrlB0z1-yQ2ltxDz
Yes my UK Vertigo first pressing big swirl on label sounds better than the Rhino on my system and my 58 year old ears. The track listing on the Rhino is just not right as me in the UK is just so use to the Vertigo pressing.
I have US first press, how can you tell if the album was pressed at Artisan?
So is any 1st us pressing an Artisan?
Hands down the best sounding is the 1st press UK Vertigo.
Agree
In your opinion
@@charlesgund4812 Yes, opinions are like assholes everyone has one.
Wow....good one Jamko...never heard that one before 🤦🤔😂
@@Jamko1970 ooooh very clever! 😮
I have a first press US terre haute with artisan symbol in VG+ (I mean an honest VG+ which is basically flawless).
Never cared about to get any other press. I think this video agrees.
Hey Mike, what about the reissue vertigo from a few years back? Have you heard that one?
Highly anticipated review - Good stuff
Amazing review! I've been waiting for a new comparison video for some time... And boom! It's Black Sabbath S/T!
$150? It's $40 on Rhino's website. What am I missing?
No no no. The steps going from the lacquer, to the metal master, to the mother, to the stamper are never considered additional "generations" away from the master tape.
Tell that to proponents of the One-Step process.
@@DonTFiftyEightI’ve always thought that Mofi’s one step process was BS but Bernie Grundman said he has had tests made using three step and one step processes and the one step was better
The steps from lacquer to metal to vinyl are absolutely generations. People pay a premium for better quality metalwork and pressing plants to help minimize generational loss.
Unless we are discussing "one steps", every record goes thru the same number of steps. Some plants do it better than other plants, but the count is the same for every record made.
I just kind of find it funny that a lot of people in the audiophile community are obsessed over this. It was recorded in 2 days and I don’t think was recorded to be an audiophile recording Probably hard to agree on the BEST recording!!
It’s apples and oranges. I liked Sabbath way before most of these newish in groove audiophiles bought RHF’s and I always thought Vertigo’s and US greenies kicked ass and it never occurred to me to even care which was better because I loved them all. All this is just OPINION anyways. I like how some of these people in the comments suddenly can definitively say they wouldn’t want a UK Vertigo just cuz Mike says so. Use your own ears folks.
I disagree. My 2nd press NM UK Vertigo sounds amazing! It ranks up there with my audiophile records. The soundstage is huuuge and the clarity and detail are amazing.
Amazing compared to what? The Vertigo sounds great in a vacuum, but once you start comparing them, things change.
@@TheInGroove I had 1st press green, mid 80s represses, 2014 Rhinos, WWA press that used Vertigo plates...my UK kills them all. I am waiting for the RHINO HIFI from Fedex. Their shipping blows. Your video has me excited to compare
@@vinylfinder33the 2014 Rhinos I don’t think are that great?. They’re digital in house cuts I think aren’t they?
@@TheInGrooveNot for me. The Rhino doesn't stand a chance against the UK 1st and the US 1st.
@@TheInGroove Strange comment Mike- you admittedly considered the Vertigo the 'best' compared to everything you had up to this Rhino HiFi release. No vacuum required lol.
Where the record was pressed is important. I have had issues with records pressed at Optimal Media. I digitize my records and listen very deeply and carefully. One thing I've noticed with Optimal pressings is that they obviously don't use as high a quality of vinyl as we have available in the U.S. The Optimal pressings have an underlying surface noise, easily detectable in the intro, deadwax and in-between tracks. It is more obtrusive than an RTI or QRP pressing.
Going back to the 1970 Artisan version. Again, where it was pressed is a factor. Most copies were pressed in the U.S. by Columbia Records and of their many plants, the best one would be Columbia, Santa Maria. They tended to use a higher quality of vinyl which we would call virgin vinyl today. If you were comparing a common Terra Haute pressing to the new RHF pressing, if instead you compared it to a Santa maria pressing, you might determine that it would be superior to the RHF pressing.
Those optimal pressings are dead silent
@@mazzysmusic Excuse me? My hearing is not what it used to be but I can hear the roaring ocean in quiet passages and the areas that are supposed to be silent. You know, like when you hold a seashell up to your ear? I can identify an Optimal pressing from the ptch of the surface noise listening through my Sony MDR headphones. Of the 9 or 10 different cartridges I use, it's the cheaper ones which tend to mask the noise. My "go-to" cartridge is the Shure M97xe, with a genuine Shure stylus, like the one most of the people who make the audiophile records we but use.
It's good to hear that there is someone deafer than I am!
@@automatedelectronics6062 I believe you, but I haven’t heard your copies All these rhino HiFi copies I have (six) are dead silent. .
Maybe my rig? Either way they are exceptional. Rega P8 Hana Umami blue MC cart.
What can I say. 🤷🏻♂️
@@mazzysmusic I don't think that there would be too much difference in sound with different copies of the same pressing. Outside of physical defects. I exchange lot's of new records I buy because of defects resulting in ticks and pops. Those pressed by Optimal are a common exchange. I don't remember having to exchange anything pressed by Pallas. They use a higher quality of vinyl like we have in the U.S.
Even 60 years ago I was very particular with my records and exchanged many before I got a copy which was suitable to me. The record stores hated me. Even in the early CD age, there were lot's of re-cordings out there which I considered an insult to me and to the original recordings.
As far as the surface noise I complain about, it is easily seen when I record it and then look at a graph when I am putting the finishing touches on before saving it. Some things can be fixed.
Even if you can't hear something, you can see that it is actually there on the graph.
As far as playback equipment goes, I try to stick with "average joe" or a little above equipment. All well-known respected brands. This is usually what the people who make the records we buy use and is the way they intend it to sound. Why spend money on something which gives you marginally better performance? I take that extra money I might have spent on equipment and buy more records instead. One thing I start with is the same turntables and cartridges they use. When Technics re-introduced the SL-1200, they did make considerable improvements, but they didn't touch the tone arm design.
When I see all these new, supposedly state of the art, turntables, when I see a straight tone arm, it is an immediate turn-off for me. I mean, look at the cheapest entry-level turntables out there now, and what do they have? Straight shaft tone arms, like the latest schoolhouse record players used. Suspension aside, why ignore the basic tone arm design.
Heck, my 1947 Capehart console, with the flip-over record changer, has a tubular "J" style metal tone arm, with a removeable headshell and modern GE magnetic cartridge. That was 1947. It's 2024 now.
Great review, I just got my copy a week ago and I was extremely pleased with the sound of it, dead quiet too. One thing that confused me though is you kept saying it was $150 but it was only $40. Maybe you meant $150 is the secondary market value but they were only $40 new at Rhino.
Yeah sold out. Selling for $150 by flippers now.
YES. That's what he means. He's selling The Cars Rhino HiFi LP for $249.99 USD. This Black Sabbath sold out in less than six days. I was able to get The Cars from Warner Brothers Canada (without corner dings), but I have yet to have any Black Sabbath in my record collection and would have loved to have this. I don't know what Rhino was thinking about with such a limited pressing. I email them and get no reply.
This guy is the king ! I've watched 4 other videos about this topic, and they were useful, but this video answers all my questions. Great video cheers
Mann!! I’m new here can someone please explain that speaker stack/setup tome😳😳😳
I love Mikes channel and reviews but surprised he didn’t know Capitol have a digital preview head on their mastering chain…
Ron McMaster said the ones he did were full analog if I remember correctly
Also the WWA pressings are pretty good
Good review!
Can Rhino just do every Sabbath title! This release was great.
Oh love this what a great shootout Mike is the man. I’m blessed to have a NM wwa copy that in my opinion, is slightly better than the rhino, but with that said the rhino absolutely kicks ass and is no question the best copy of that version (ie the American one)
Wondering if anyone knows anything about the rhino vinyl release from 2010
I competed the new Rhino HiFi to my 2010 rhino and a of green Canadian samosas the OG US. The OG was tops but not by much. The HiFi a close seconds and very good when you crank it. The 210 was last. I didn’t like it after hearing the other two next to it so I’ll be trading it in
Hard to find (for me anyway) great sounding Sabbath and The Who records especially in the bass that capture John and Geezer's amazing playing.
Mike you mentioned Master of Reality UK… listen to the VMP version and maybe another shootout is needed.
I like the master tape copy
Great video. Thanks. So, with his top recommendation, how many copies of the Rhino does Mike have ready to sell at $249 (= his Rhino Cars copy for sale)....?! LOL! :-)
Can you really review albums after listening to them over twenty times? I would think your hearing would not be nearly as good later on in the session. Hearing fatigue def can set in, especially in the highs you say you don't hear on many records.
Yeah cant agree on this one. I got my non numbered one in today and it’s way too bright and lacks any heft or thickness to the bottom end. Good separation and clarity but thats all really. I’ll be seeking out better OG pressings.