A couple months back, I was on Lake Nockamixon, PA. The wind was 28 mph steady, with 40-plus mph gusts. Was not reefed (dumb move in hindsight). Although depowered almost 100% of the time, I came close to flipping it over numerous times. The most bizzare capsizing scare I had was when tacking once into a sudden gust, I was suddenly pointing about 45% nose up, tail under water. For a second, I felt sure that I was going to flip over backwards! These boats are fantastic, almost impossible to capsize, but are also surpricingly light. No one should fool themselves, though. These boats can be capsized if the wind is strong enough, through faults of the pilot. And, 40 mph is definately strong enough...
Hi @TomKirkman1, in your opinion, what would be the best compromise between fun (wet&wild) and cruise (kids aboard)? Windrider, weta or astus 16.5? And the ultimate fun machine, weta or astus? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
The Astus is a very powerful machine. The Weta is a lot of fun but I consider it a one person boat. If you want to take kids and/or another adult in a craft that is easy to rig and sail, and hard to get into trouble with, get a Windrider 17 and go have fun. It sails nicely and they offer a spinnaker for it as well.
Thanks @TomKirkman1! My marina is down a channel that's upwind 95% of the time, and I keep hearing these horror stories about windrider 17 tack angles. Perhaps you could shed some light on this? Thanks again! 🙏
Nice sailing! How does the Windrider do with a little bit of swell? Looks good on a flat lake...but it looks like you came close to pearling the lee Ama. Really good job of handling, cheers
you mention de-powered - but it looks like the down haul is quite loose. These have my curiousity up. I've sailed the WETA - but can't justify the price. Did I see one of these was only 1800.?
+TomKirkman1 is it fiberglass and gel boat or rotomolded plastic? How does it compare to the Weta. More Capible ? as in what? not tipping over? The one issue I have with the weta I sailed is that the out-riggers dig in and don't seem very hydro-dynamically designed. I see the same in this video. It really DIGS IN with excessive drag rather than slipping though the water. ??
Rotomolded plastic. Tough as nails and capable of handling winds that few other small boats are. The Weta is faster. The Amas are not designed to "dig in." They are supposed to run about half way in, which gives the maximum amount of righting moment for the least amount of drag. If you are plunging your Amas in that deep you're not sailing the boat correctly. Sure it happens now and then, but the idea is hike and sheet so that the leeward ama stays about half way in. Check my Weta videos to see what I mean.
The interesting thing is that multi-hulls offer the greatest righting moment when they're flat, offering less and less the more they heel. A monohull, with a weighted keel, offers little righting moment when upright, but the more it heels the more righting effort it exerts. But, I'd agree that few standard monohull keel boats would have been upright that day without very careful work by the skipper. I've never capsized the WindRider. It can be done, of course, but it's probably more forgiving than just about any other multi-hull I've been in thus far. With just a little knowledge and effort, you could probably sail this thing in a hurricane. Almost, anyway.
No, no, no. Water inside the amas sloshes and creates a situation where the inertia from the moving water can cause a capsize - there are no baffles in those hulls. And what you gain on one side, you lose on the other. There are much better ways to depower, either in the rig or the operation, than putting water in the hulls or rigging contraptions to ferry bags of water from side to side.
This is traditional. New England " Sandbagger" sail boats depend entirely on sand bags to stay upright. Many boats have internal systems to shift water between tanks to change ballast. Ultimately all our fat friends are welcome on board for a windy day cruise.
@@ralfnorenberg3130 Because Andy and Jim purposely designed this boat so you wouldn't have do that - you sit inside a comfortable cockpit and steer with your feet, leaving your hands free to trim the sheets, eat a sandwich, hold your binoculars, etc. It's a different, and very modern way to sail.
@@thekobaz Windrider never claimed it was "unflippable" and when you put 2 people on a 1 person boat you only increase the chance that you will flip it. Th idea that trimarans won't capsize is just bad public perception - no trimaran manufacturer has ever stated that their boats won't flip.
@@TomKirkman1 Oh I never said it was unflippable. Your post kind of had that feeling to it though... Regarding: "Not on this boat"... But 100% agreed bad perception that people think it is.
A couple months back, I was on Lake Nockamixon, PA. The wind was 28 mph steady, with 40-plus mph gusts. Was not reefed (dumb move in hindsight). Although depowered almost 100% of the time, I came close to flipping it over numerous times. The most bizzare capsizing scare I had was when tacking once into a sudden gust, I was suddenly pointing about 45% nose up, tail under water. For a second, I felt sure that I was going to flip over backwards! These boats are fantastic, almost impossible to capsize, but are also surpricingly light. No one should fool themselves, though. These boats can be capsized if the wind is strong enough, through faults of the pilot. And, 40 mph is definately strong enough...
any one criticising your sailing technique just didn't watch this carefully. Holly cow your good. Rock on Bro. Great vid.
Maybe needs a reef and border the mainsail. I bought a 26' trimaran in 1989 ... Much to learn before getting a real skill
I really like the looks of this trimaran. Thanks, I will add it to my wish list.
Wow!! Great sailing!! You and The boat seem totally in control under extreme wind conditions.
Hi @TomKirkman1, in your opinion, what would be the best compromise between fun (wet&wild) and cruise (kids aboard)? Windrider, weta or astus 16.5? And the ultimate fun machine, weta or astus? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
The Astus is a very powerful machine. The Weta is a lot of fun but I consider it a one person boat. If you want to take kids and/or another adult in a craft that is easy to rig and sail, and hard to get into trouble with, get a Windrider 17 and go have fun. It sails nicely and they offer a spinnaker for it as well.
Thanks @TomKirkman1! My marina is down a channel that's upwind 95% of the time, and I keep hearing these horror stories about windrider 17 tack angles. Perhaps you could shed some light on this? Thanks again! 🙏
Nice sailing! How does the Windrider do with a little bit of swell? Looks good on a flat lake...but it looks like you came close to pearling the lee Ama. Really good job of handling, cheers
It's great in heavy water. Most capable small sailboat for serious voyages out there.
Looking for a video of a Windrider 17 being operated offshore in 8' - 10' seas?
you mention de-powered - but it looks like the down haul is quite loose. These have my curiousity up. I've sailed the WETA - but can't justify the price. Did I see one of these was only 1800.?
+Ron Kramer oops that was the reacher. Boats appear more like 9,000+ I can't justify that - Im' still to me H18 and F18.
It's a more capable boat than either of those, although not as fast. But either way it's an absolute bargain at $9500.
+TomKirkman1 is it fiberglass and gel boat or rotomolded plastic? How does it compare to the Weta. More Capible ? as in what? not tipping over? The one issue I have with the weta I sailed is that the out-riggers dig in and don't seem very hydro-dynamically designed. I see the same in this video. It really DIGS IN with excessive drag rather than slipping though the water. ??
Rotomolded plastic. Tough as nails and capable of handling winds that few other small boats are. The Weta is faster. The Amas are not designed to "dig in." They are supposed to run about half way in, which gives the maximum amount of righting moment for the least amount of drag. If you are plunging your Amas in that deep you're not sailing the boat correctly. Sure it happens now and then, but the idea is hike and sheet so that the leeward ama stays about half way in. Check my Weta videos to see what I mean.
Awesome video. I would appear that no monohull could sail in that wind. Go Trimarans. Have you ever capsized the boat? Thanks
The interesting thing is that multi-hulls offer the greatest righting moment when they're flat, offering less and less the more they heel. A monohull, with a weighted keel, offers little righting moment when upright, but the more it heels the more righting effort it exerts.
But, I'd agree that few standard monohull keel boats would have been upright that day without very careful work by the skipper.
I've never capsized the WindRider. It can be done, of course, but it's probably more forgiving than just about any other multi-hull I've been in thus far. With just a little knowledge and effort, you could probably sail this thing in a hurricane. Almost, anyway.
No, no, no. Water inside the amas sloshes and creates a situation where the inertia from the moving water can cause a capsize - there are no baffles in those hulls. And what you gain on one side, you lose on the other.
There are much better ways to depower, either in the rig or the operation, than putting water in the hulls or rigging contraptions to ferry bags of water from side to side.
This is traditional. New England " Sandbagger" sail boats depend entirely on sand bags to stay upright. Many boats have internal systems to shift water between tanks to change ballast. Ultimately all our fat friends are welcome on board for a windy day cruise.
@@ralfnorenberg3130 Because Andy and Jim purposely designed this boat so you wouldn't have do that - you sit inside a comfortable cockpit and steer with your feet, leaving your hands free to trim the sheets, eat a sandwich, hold your binoculars, etc. It's a different, and very modern way to sail.
You can see the trampoline bulge in the gusts... the wind could flip that boat... I'll bet knockdowns are common.
Not on this boat. Not at all. You can flip one, but you'd really have to make a big mistake to do it.
@@TomKirkman1 ruclips.net/video/lRpRFsV5dRE/видео.html
@@thekobaz Windrider never claimed it was "unflippable" and when you put 2 people on a 1 person boat you only increase the chance that you will flip it. Th idea that trimarans won't capsize is just bad public perception - no trimaran manufacturer has ever stated that their boats won't flip.
@@TomKirkman1 Oh I never said it was unflippable. Your post kind of had that feeling to it though... Regarding: "Not on this boat"... But 100% agreed bad perception that people think it is.
Cool video. As a 17 owner I know that boat will also handle 8-10 ft. waves. A different kind of blast! I don't know what the limits are.
That's why you always miss your Windrider
If you had a 200lbs buddy to stand on the winward ama, that boat would scream in 30knots.
We did that once - with a guy that weighed 235. We rolled.