A STRANGE old Electromechanical "Flip Dot" Display. How Does It Work?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Today we look at this Electromechanical Digit from a Totalisator board, follow along with the project of plomping it all back together! first to fettle the displays back into life. These have come from lucien nunes MEET collection. got them bit back, glad to get these going! hopefully will be able to get the rest of the puzzle soon.
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#vintage #telephoneexchange #restoration #telephony #telephonetuesdays
These have come from lucien nunes MEET collection. got them bit back, glad to get these going! hopefully will be able to get the rest of the puzzle soon.
so subscribe and follow along. as there will be more vids on the totalisator with more info on it all as a whole.
And don't be scared to try it!
You could put the display outside the toilet in the museum. Users can give fair warning of whether they're doing a number one or a number two.
I gotta take a number 5
This idea but a user count. Continuously counts number of dumps taken per day
Maybe a "Toilet Ejector" countdown?
Can it count down? Maybe a "do-NOT-go-in-there!" timer.
Total number of toilet flushes. And it if it rolls over it sets off bells and fanfare for 10K flushes.
It might be worth mentioning, a 'Totalizer' was an automated betting system. a computing system that calculated odds based on the number of bets placed on... whatever your betting on. Im not a betting man, so I dont know exactly how it rolls, but I am a bit of a nerd, so I know they were pretty sophisticated computational machines for their time. realistically what it meant, you weren't beholden to putting bets with the bookie 'in the dark' well before the race, the machine computed in near enough real time what the pot was and what the odds were for each bet placed. I dont know much more, and would absolutely love a deep dive on such machines. there was alot of money to be made from them, so they grew very big, many tills, displays, many rooms of computing hardware. Pre-Digital to boot. Mad Lad Territory. If only there was a museum dedicated to nutters making obscenely complex widgets...
I WILL come visit one day. your literally on the other side of the planet. Bucket List Category.
I recall seeing an electromechanical computer to do this, from a horse-racing track, at the Science Museum in London. It was this amazing hulking mechanism.
I later read that this kind of system (parimutuel betting) was actually relatively rare for horse racing in the UK, where they generally prefer to have fixed odds that are set before the betting begins. But I think it was used more for greyhound racing in the UK, and for both kinds of race in the US.
And the abbreviation gives us the word tote, which is a sweepstake type betting arrangement.
@@MattMcIrvin it's a little before my time but my brother used to say he preferred "going to the dogs" rather than "going to the horses" partially for that reason. Also because it was over faster and had less expectations of people acting "high class" 😅
Word of the day: totalisator
Not "totaler." Not "totaliser." "Totalisator."
Get Dr. Doofenschmirtz to build it and it'll be a totalizenator.
If you've ever heard the term 'tote board', tote is short for totalizator.
That's right up there with "digitalization."
Why not totalisatorifier?
All I can think off is electromechanical Skynet ❤
I worked on similar ones, They were really efficient way to display. Power only required on changing display, extremely high visibility in bright light.
Awesome unit. The mechanics are so interesting, considering how old it probably is. Thx for sharing.
Sam - great video as ever. These kind of old electro-mechanical devices are fascinating. Sorry but I have no freaking idea how it's supposed to work, but good luck in restoring it. I have every confidence in you and your loyal supporters! Good luck mate! 🙂😎🤓❤
Thatd be a sick new years count down
flip dot / split flap displays are some of the coolest devices out there. really hope to get my hands on one someday. thanks for sharing.
"Split flap display" sounds like a euphemism for something.
I remember them, there use to be one at the Greyhound track near where my parents lived many years ago, in the 50's. Brilliant Stuff !!! Sent a photo on Facebook, Messenger.
WOW, my childhood inquisitive mind question just answered. Always wondered how these worked - and close-up too! Thank you :)
Loving it Sam. Cool piece of old technology that was taken for granted by most people!
It almost looks like stop motion when it’s flipping through.
Indeed.
Seems like the change from black to white is faster than from white to black. Makes it all the more interesting to watch.
Was thinking the same thing :)
Yeah, 4:40 does not look at all like modern video.
@@paulbolus9399 Same here!
Came here to say the same!
There are 11 positions 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 and blank. Similar kit was used for cricket score boards.
yep as you can see from the back display. 11 inclusing blank. any more info on the cricket boards?
@@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE Sorry no. A mate of mine had some of these he was mucking about with, 20 years ago, they came from a portable score board. Sadly he died during covid, no idea what happened to his stuff.
@@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETETHEY CLICK EVEN LOUDER!😂
I thought the cricket numberwangs were just bits of card hung on pegs by old farts?
Blank between each number so more than eleven.
I would happily spend an afternoon touring this museum. Every time I see one of these videos, he's demonstrating some new achievement or acquisition with a knowledge of its inner workings that makes it unexpectedly fascinating.
Old school 7 segment display. I guess that one is a 24 segment display. Very cool piece of old tech. Good job getting it working.
A thing of beauty! Such a Fran-tastically interesting piece of tech.
ohhh this is a beautiful bit of mechanics!
Remind me "Clacks" telegraph system from two-part television film adaptation of Going Postal by Terry Pratchett, adapted by Richard Kurti and Bev Doyle.
Those are based on the real French pre-electric telegraphs :) though the one in the TV film is based more on a grid design the French system briefly toyed with before going instead with a few "flags" for the full rollout.
Yet another sample pack in the making!
The mechanism reminds me a bit of some of the telephone exchange mechanics. Any chance you'll try to integrate them to show the numbers being dialled?
Sounds like the tradis 👍😎
Can you put a microphone in it to feed into your synthesizers? Add a bit of reverb ...
IIRC that sound was a key being dragged up and down the harp in an upright piano...
@@SomeMorganSomewhere wow! I dearly hope I find myself in a trivia quiz one day where I need to know this.
@@SomeMorganSomewhere Or was the BBC music bloke just at the racetrack during workinghours :)
Tardis. That time machine is called Tardis. Just to spell it right
It is how I imagine a miniature Clacks would look.
hook the totalisator up to a mechanical Pong game. Some very german guy about a decade ago maybe more made a beautiful relay based game that belongs in the museum.
A later method of electromechanical display was the Annax system, sold among others by the German company Telenorma back in the 1980s. It used bistable elements of various sizes that could be individually addressed, making it capable of displaying any number or letter as well as punctuation signs. The technology is used today mainly for passenger information displays on busses and trains. The German stock exchange in Frankfurt am Main uses a very large Annax board to this day. The latest iteration of the bistable idea is ... epaper displays. The tiny pixel elements are either turned on or off, and stay that way until changed again. Much nicer than the clunky mechanical version!
Cooool. Ive had quite a bit to do with modern flipdot units, but this cam driven style, in your parlance, is bonkers. was not expecting that. awesome. I am lead to believe that some of the earliest and most sophisticated totaliser hardware was developed in Aus, all electromechanical. then when digital stuff came in, the bottom kinda fell out of the market, and imported stuff became the norm. maybe try and chase up some old geezers from this end of the world, sure they would love to tell their stories before they drop off the perch.
This was a serious upgrade to the previous XVI Roman Numeral models.
Absolutely mesmerizing!
That is the coolest fucking thing! Awesome that it made it into your hands. One day I'll get to your neck of the woods and visit the museum. I rarely threaten travel due to poor finances but I'm vowing it now!
I assume the blank option is to make sure that there are no leading zeros before the first significant digit, starting with just plain 0.
You should cut some more cams so it can show letters. If you can squeeze 96 positions into a cam, you can show the entire ASCII character set.
Cuz I know how you love suggestions from random nobodies, I'll keep going: If you move the motor axle away from the display, you can fit larger cams. But the depth of the cams will limit the rotation speed, so add a 2nd motor to drive wedges under the lifters to lift them completely off the cams, then you can more quickly rotate the cams.
Whoo . . . mechanical logic. Sort of a cam ROM!
The acceleration/deceleration of the elements gives it a lovely analog feel (compared to flip-dot displays)
Love your content, but one thing...
If you could leave text on-screen long enough to be read by people who don't already know what it says, that'd be swell.
soz i assumed it was on for long enough. i even make it longer than i think it should be. ill make it a bit longer next time though. all good
@@THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETEIt's really just the one at 3:39 When I was doing some video work I'd leave text on long enough for me to read it one word at a time backwards. That worked well for clients. Also a good way to catch typos.
Cams kinda look like the tone wheels in a Hammond organ
Put it as a visitor counter above the door or something, when someone enters it counts-up (will need 2 sensors, checked in order, so it doesn't count people leaving :D)
How about rigging it up to keep score of a giant game of pong? Complete with synth bleeps and bloops as the ball pixel bounces around.
Haven't seen this type yet! I've wanted to know everything about the control gear for old mechanical/electrical displays for over 40 years, but knowledge/footage is so very scarce. Always delighted to learn more, thank you. And thanks for not making it into a clock.
Look up George Julius. He invented the mechanical totalizer, and then the electro mechanical totalizer.
Very cool!
The sound it makes reminds me a bit of the Tardis!
it could be a little "spy", which randomly shows which telephone (number) is connected to which other one in your museum.
Gives off pre-Dalek vibes. 🤖
Can't wait for a second to be wired up 42 😮
No Sam, you don't know what you are doing!!! You don't do it like that, you do it like this!!!! Love it Sam, great find. I hope you can track down the rest of the gear to run these!
This display made me think of the alternate history novel "The Difference Engine" by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling. In this novel, they have computers that are wholly mechanical, based on the computer of the same name that was developed by Charles Babbage, and which have mechanical displays that I imagine are much like the one Sam has here in the video.
The people who wrote the programs for the computers in the novel were called "Clackers", which I think is a very apt name. :-D
That would be cool as a "count in" and then BPM display for making music.
The mechanism if very 1950's pinball-ish.
use it to count the number of visitors to the museum?
Man, this thing has such a great vibe. And "totalisator" is a great name too. Although it would alter it past a lot of the stuff that makes it cool, it would be fun to make a different back end so you could set and unset whatever "pixels" you want.
I met Lucien once briefly, what a fascinating person with a real passion for electro mechanical things. Glad to see something of his collection live on!
Make a custom cam with new display elements... like letters maybe.
You should consider 3D printing a smaller one!
Nice caller ID
I think this might be the tote from Perry Bar Greyhound Stadium in Birmingham.
When the Perry Bar tote was recovered, it found its way to Gloucester, where it was stored for many years and then in 2010 there was an attempt to rehome it at various museums in 2010
That date would seem to line up with Lucien acquiring equipment? So I think it’s a fairly good chance this is the same one.
I’m glad it’s seeing the light of day. I very nearly took it on myself back in 2010 but I couldn’t justify the space.
That makes sense! I'm looking forward to getting hold of
The rest of it however it's a somewhat common theme that things have been split up and stored in different places just really hope can find all of the cables and racks. I don't suppose you'd know of any pictures from back then??? It would really aid making sure I don't miss some things out
aha just saw your message thanks a lot for that
You need some electromechanical greyhounds that you could race and bet on
Thiis reminds me of the old automata robots
Make one numerical prefix allow you to dial the rest of the numbers in with a phone line
Electromechanical totalizer systems are extremely fascinating. There's a lot of documentation on the Julius totalizer system made by the Automatic Totalizer company worth reading up on - unbelievably complex distributed multi-terminal mechanical computer systems from the 1930s.
Always wondered how these worked. Thanks for sharing.
I agree with you about not just turning it into a clock, there are many other uses for these displays.
If you have five of them, you can make a YT subscriber counter!
This 3D printing concept just got next-level! Forget pushing plastic through a nozzle, what if we built objects from the inside out, layer by layer, with a two part container?
Imagine a two-part vat that spins while a fancy nozzle sprays a special resin, building the object layer by layer. But here's the twist: a UV light zaps each layer to harden it, and tiny magnets outside the vat can manipulate the resin for even crazier designs!
Think dissolvable layers hidden within the object, or even tiny components placed precisely using magnetic fields. This "Morphing Matrix" could be a game-changer, letting us print objects with hidden compartments or even self-assembling parts! #FuturePrinting #MindBlown
What do you guys think? Could this be the future of 3D printing?
If you make a clock with just the 4 digits, you might be waiting a while to see it change, i've been trying to think of something better.
One thought is to somehoe link it to the exchange and see the 4 digits that someonne dialls, however i think you only have a couple of first digits
I'm sure you can think of other ways to do something similar
cheers! but it will be wired into the totalisator :)
Is that strange I saw a M8/tracker on the thumbnail?😂
Why not combine the four displays into one 12 x 8 matrix and create a fully addressable 96 bit (only 12 bytes) monochrome computer screen. Expand it when more units pop up... until it runs Doom... ;-)
The buses in Perth Western Australia in the late 1980s had a similar panel with small florescent dots on them that could put text and numbers of what bus and where it was going and it could refresh them regularly - this was a tech upgrade from the older roll of numbers where bus drivers had to go to back of the bus and wind the 3 or 4 rolls of numbers to depict what route it was on as well as side and front. Much later this was replaced with globes like led matrix. But the fluro dots were cool changing them the system would flip them all to black and then bright yellow/green again with a waterfall effect was pretty neat in them days!
Those are called flipdot displays. Sam actually has an episode on them if interested. I remember going to the airport as a kid and hearing the "click click click" of all the arrival and departure information changing via a flipdot-like display. Such a unique sound, something that will probably never exist in ubiquity again. I also remember flying, possibly moving from Sydney or maybe Hong Kong to the States,where I live now, and sticking my finger in an ash tray on the airplane seat and it coming out all covered with ash and smelling like smoke. It's absolutely wild that not only did smoking used to be allowed on planes but that every seat had an ashtray. Insane. And I'm not sure if many or any planes ever went down because of a fire being started due to smoking, but I haven't specifically looked. This is obviously a long time ago, when I had to wear a sport coat, slacks, and a tie as a child when flying on planes. My mom used to take us kids to the airports and we would walk up to the gates without a ticket and watch the 747s come in and then have ice cream / pie at a restaurant at the airport. Airport restaurants used to be classy affairs, not corporate owned. Flying used to be cool, but even though it's just like riding a city bus now and it isn't the experience it used to be, it's far more accessible to everyone around the world. Anyway, sorry - your comment made me think of stuff I haven't thought of in 40 years. So I appreciate that
4:40 Is it just me or does this look like it's stop motion animated? Does the machine move in incremental ticks that give it something that looks like a low framerate?
They look like parts for a train number board like they would use on the Southern Pacific. My guess it would be for a like a part for score board or a military clock. Maybe a days without accident sign. I just can't think what you'd need that for that makes any sense other then those things for something that size.
I'm guessing @franlab must be already across this wild content
Some of those pixels must feel pretty neglected
As the connectors are similar could you use it to show which museum phone is being rung/dialed?
it connects to the totalisator which i will get hold of soon.
It creates such a great effect. It looks stop motion animated. Would be great to film it really actually from the front and use the footage to create a digital countdown video for.... Something...
4:06 This is begging for a Karnaugh map reduction.
People definitely gave things better names back in the day.
keep the sound! It sounds like a TARDIS 🙂
Just begs to be recreated in 3D-printing, isn't it?
Did you get 4 or more..? I challenge you to build digital clock, with uniselectors involved...
BTW, let me know if your interested in those diallers (video on Strowger)
Connect it to the internet, it will be the only IOT Totaliser
Four by six is it? One by two to get seven segment.
Sounds a little like a TARDIS making its entrance/exit.
Would a table football scoreboard be too much on the nose?
What you have are just the Display and "Drivers" to run it. Later version many had Ferranti-Packard Flip Dots or High Contrast Light fixtures. Totalizator or Tote Board is a whole system was run by the "Computer" that takes the bet data to calculate and display intermediate and final Odds on a Horse race and other parimutuel games. Don't know how the job was done in 1950's-60's but have done by digital computers in 1970's and after. For more search Autotote Corporation and related companies.
Yes as I mention in the video. I am getting the totalisator computers in a couple of weeks
I thought Totalizator was Australian as I’d never heard of it before leaving the UK (‘73). Totalizator Agency Board in Australia.
They don't build things like they used to.
That electro-mechanical stuff was so intricate and yet so robust.
Today we have very capable computers and microcontrollers that run everything that can fail in millions of different ways. 70 years ago we built fail-safe metro-systems that would more or less run safely even if a diver fell down dead on the job.
Interesting workings reminds me of old automata cams.
I built a few flip dot displays at work but just the solenoid ones. great video 2x👍
Wow, that thing looks like it could have been invented in the early 1900's, if not sooner, with DC motors being invented in the mid-late 1800's.
Wow, there's ancient, and then there's "as old as your old man" ancient. And this thing's ancient enough to be cool again.
Great machine, but it does make you wonder...since it's hard coded to show 0-9, why not just directly rotate a fixed number plate.
Some totalisators did
mechanisms like this is mechanical , driven by any motor
Did you just say toodely doo? 😅😅
very fran blanche of you
Desktop "Clacks" system.
I am part way thru watching the two episodes on the RUclips. A good watch and well spotted sir.
@@brianpeers the casting is excellent and they made a few good decisions on which characters to combine to simplify it for screen. I wish they’d adapted Making Money at the same time.
I 💚 how it looks like stop motion animation when it runs..:::
It deserves to be powered with a steam engine and flywheel maybe, what a great find!
When I went in February, there is one of those dog track totalizer in the London science museum. It is of the vintage of yours or even older. I think it was in the maths room.
Big "Family Feud" vibes here!
Steve Harvey: Survey says...?
Where is this place?
Turn it into an enigma code machine to search the dark webs with complete and total anonymity...
Never would’ve imagined it was a single cam and a bunch of push rods.
turn it into a db meter?
So is there no mechanical connection to that one dot that doesn't flip for any of the numbers?