What I’ve always noticed is the wax potting removes the “air” quality of the top end. I notice it more live than recorded. Thanks Jon for another interesting and informative video!
I run PAF style scatter-wound Tonerider AC2s in all my Les Pauls they are a PAF type except they are wax potted. They all have that "airy" tone with great note separation, dynamics, awesome sustain and the bell-like sound. I've played the un-waxed PAFs from Seth Lover and Mojotone 59, they are not better sonically than the waxed Toneriders and they are more apt to sqealing feedback.
I thought so too, maybe a tiny tiny bit. Then I started thinking what if I’m hearing what I perceive a wax potted pickup to sound like. Because the 2 recordings are really really close. The best, nerdiest, way to do it would be to conduct the experiment blind.
You have to be deff to not hear the difference, it is like day and night.. That’s one of the reasons that true vintage pickups sound and feel better then the production nowadays, of course with the exception of whom make them as the old days.. Thank you for taking the time to do this video…
I'd be interested to know how non wax potted pups would react in a 335 or semi-hollow. Would there be more hum, or would there be feedback? I have black 335 dot that I absolutely love the feel of, quite worn in, but the pups are way too dark/muddy. They were replaced before I got it & have no idea what they, but I highly doubt they're Gibson. So! I'm on the prowel for a replacement set, likely ThroBaks, if I go non wax route. I play mostly cleans to crunch, some classic rock. Mostly Steve Cropper style, and I know a T style is more appropriate for that, but I prefer Gibson on the scale & single coils don't do it for me (even though they sound great, of course).
I was shocked that I could hear a difference on the treble strings and I preferred the wax potted. Just had a nicer tone but I could hear no difference at all on the base side of the neck. The low strings all sounded the same to me. Thanks for doing this research I don't think anyone else on the internet has done something like this. Certainly answers a question that I've had for a while
So subtle that it it’s not worth getting one’s jeans in a knot over it. Bedroom cork sniffers love obsessing over this stuff, but you can barely hear a difference with just the guitar being heard; put that guitar in a mix and forget about hearing a significant difference. I’ll personally worry more about playing meaningful notes. But wax potted pickups with Loud playing on a small stage with hi gain sure makes life easier for a gigging musician. I used to think that non wax potting may make sense in a studio, but after hearing this I don’t think it would matter once the guitar tracks are placed in the mix. But the “you do you Bro” maxim applies, as always. Great sounding pickups either way.
Really fair assessment you made. With a heavily over driven amp at high volume you would hear a big difference in -between notes if sustained or after decay with more noise.. I do agree with you that non potted is more alive with more undertones/nuances. and subtleties. Great work !!!
I can hear a difference- minor but it’s there. I had a set that were not potted and there were amazing at low to medium volume. Much more sustain and responsive.
God I love Throwback videos. All the thought experiments and bar room "what ifs" played out right in front of our eyes by someone who, as near as has no practical consequence, winds absolutely historically accurate pickups (short of having a time machine). Absolutely enthralling food for the brain. Love it. Respect from the U.K.
About 12 years ago, I swapped out the stock Gibson neck pickup, of my '79 ES-175, for a Duncan Seth Lover (Alnico 2, and no wax potting). When I played some chord-melody stuff, it sounded like a towel was lifted off my amp ('73 Fender Twin Reverb). I've never had to use this guitar in a high volume situation, but just for playing for my own enjoyment, I definitely enjoy the more "acoustic-like" sound.
Hear and feel the difference..little bit more glassy unwaxed..I've tried this experiment and most people say they cant hear the difference but I definitely do.
Interesting..I didn't think I would be able to tell a difference but I can..the wax potted pups sound more dull and not as chimey/open as the non wax potted pups..its not a huge difference but its there. Its enough of a difference that I will always use non wax potted pups. Thanks for doing this.
I do not record. If I did, this may not be a significant difference. However, nuance is paramount. Most of todays music is lacking in critical nuance, which many people do not realize is missing. Call it the soul of the music if you will. Many desirable sounds are almost impossible to convey in recorded video. Kudos for trying to enlighten us.
this is what I tried on a set of strat pickups ( i think were swapped out) I dipped them for 20-30 mins. watching the bubbles come out but more because I didnt want the top plate to melt as i believe it was plastic. I threw them back in and it got rid of the microphonic issue but sounded numb/dull. I did a few quick dips after the original dip to add extra coats of wax. I reheated them a few days later ( probably the following weekend) with a hair dryer and let all the "free wax" drip off. Got my sound back and still didnt get any microphonics.
I heard pretty much zero difference. Very good A/B test though one of the best I've seen. Very quick and sudden changes back and forth is very helpful so that our ears don't forget.
I’ve had problems with unpotted pickups squealing (I play a full stack). Removing the cover didn’t even seem to help at all. But then, I put the cover back on with some gaffer tape on top of the non-adjustable poles, and made sure the cover went on very tight, and the squealing was gone. Make sure those covers are on tight and use the gaffer tape trick if you have any issues, before wax potting!
The Silicone RTV treatment will accomplish the same as the gaffers tape. Gaffers tape adhesive will harden over time and may be difficult to clean off.
Another interesting comparison. I did notice the difference in the early scales playing more so on the low strings. The higher strings tended to sound the same on my laptop.
This is good stuff.. I can definitely hear a difference in the single strings being played but not as much in the chords. The single notes do breathe a little more to my ears though. Just my two cents...
I agree completely, on single notes they sound a touch janglier, seems like I can hear more overtones out of the unpotted pickups. Not enough of a difference to care about, in my opinion, certainly not enough to sacrifice the additional stability/predictability of a potted version. Maybe for studio players it would be worth caring about. I know how you damn guitar players are about imagined and real tonal differences, though...
Yes this was useful. Noticeable. I realize that I haven’t played live through an amp for 13 years. I am a pit guitarist on a touring show and the sound designer insists on having no stage PA. Basically all in-ear. Unwaxed pot would not be a problem I guess. And it would sound pretty open and clear. Just have to remember I have unwaxed pickups if I end up on a different show with speakers again.
Hi, Addicted 2 tone, well I must say that I am sitting here listening to this and you must have bloody dogs ears because I sure can't here a difference. Now I have Duncan Antiquities unpotted and Pearly Gates potted and yes there is a definite difference, but they are two entirely different pickups. I think that yes , Throbaks and Wizz and a lot of other pickups are great sounding pickups, but It's a crime that the price tag is outrageous. I guess if you've got bucks to burn then go for it. I think people place too much attention on this pickup and that pickup, when really it doesn't matter that much. It comes down to talent. I heard David Myhre, back up guitarist for Don Felder of the Eagles at the Casino Niagara and he was playing through a cheap Fender Deluxe Reverb reissue and he smoked. So It's not the bloody pickups that matter that much when it comes down to being a professional touring musician. It's strictly talent. Yeah I don't deny that a set of Throbaks would sound good. But for now, I stick with my Duncans. Even cost a good few bucks.
In my opinion, no wax is noticeably brighter. With wax is noticeably warmer. My ear also seems to hear a bit more beefyness in the bottom end on the wax pickup as well. Very interesting to be able to A/B the two. Very well done video!
The difference side by side, the wax potted had a wet blanket kind of sound. If I just heard it on the radio, I wouldn't have known. If it wasn't side by side I wouldn't have known if they were or were not wax potted. What I will attest to is how the guitar interacts with the amp, the note bloom, openness, and high end when playing a non-potted pickup. I felt like I was fighting my guitar just trying to get tones out of it and make it do things that should just be natural to a Les Paul. Found some old unpotted humbuckers and that was it. So there you go. Take it for what it's worth.
The diff is subtle here but it's not that subtle. And that's at low gain & modest volume. But you described it perfectly... Non wax potted is more lively w/ brighter highs and more of the acoustic tone coming through(as if a piezo was very slightly blended in with the humbucker). HOWEVER, I guarantee you, with a cranked, dirty amp(ala Marshall) the diff is even bigger. The non potted sounds even more alive & electric. Those little microphonics jump out on certain notes and you get a lot of magical accidental harmonics. That's what I've noticed when I hear Burstbuckers(not the Pros), for example, thru a loud Marshall. The diff is not so subtle then. They def sound more alive and natural(vintage).
Hey Jon, Super video like your style of explanation very straightforward very honest. My experience with wax potting is this, none of my guitars are wax potted, except for one. It’s a 60s re-issue SG in which I put in Lindy Fraillan P 90s in... only problem is when I started getting into some gain on my amp and sitting pretty much far away 2 to 3000 cycles came out like a knife. I called Lindy and spoke to him about it he said send the pick ups back we will change them out. So I did got the new ones installed same result. I called him again and he said I will wax pot them.... got them back same result. I sent the guitar to my personal guitar tech at SF guitar works, Mike said OK let’s give it more wax. He knew what I wanted I’ve worked with him for years it turned out he said he wax potted them three I times maybe four times then the feedback stopped ....he said it was like a brick of wax could barely fit back in ...cut out in fact I think he rounded it down a little bit to make it fit. When I got the guitar back no matter how much gain I put on it no feedback whatsoever and frankly I thought the tone was great ....however I did notice that yes there was a little less high-end , and a little less of the acoustic value .....this is the only guitar that I’ve done that with like I said. In the beginning I went back-and-forth with the same exact gain settings , with different guitars, to make sure it wasn’t something I was doing wrong but none of the other guitars had any problems only the SG. That’s my story sorry it’s long.
I like non wax potted neck pickups but need wax potted bridge pickups. I found that I tended to roll the tone off more than usual when I had a non wax potted bridge pickup. Plus, my band typically plays on small stages and we are loud enough that uncontrollable feedback is an issue. If I was just playing at home I would probably go non wax potted 100% of the time on both pickups, but that extra treble and tendency to feedback more than I want is enough to keep me was potting my bridge pickups. However, that extra chime from a non wax potted neck is crucial and helps so much with clarity.
John has the best pickups in the world bar none and I’ve heard them all . I had a 335 with early Patent pickups, and the guitar felt alive in the hands... that’s worth it’s weight in gold.
This reminds me a little of using dampers on tubes to reduce vibrational noise in combo amps. They work but they also reduce the airy overtones that make good tubes sound good. So I've learned to live with a little sympathetic rattle if it means keeping the full harmonic signal.
That doesn't make a damn bit of sense. I think you're imagining things there. Rattling tubes produce "airy overtones"?🤣 You sound like exactly the kind of person who would spend $600 on a set of pickups..
frankly I'm more amazed how you were able to perfectly match the volumes (given that you unscrewed the pickups and put them back !!!) and even your seating position was matched, I could barely tell that the video switched between the two audios OR videos, lol.
Based on what I heard, the unpotted has some nice hollowness on each note. The potted has solid notes, like a filled can of beer, where the unpotted was like the empty ones. They all work on their own worlds. Unpotted is for studios and potted is for live. Informative video! Thanks a lot.
The recording differences are subtle, but the wax potted samples sounded slightly smoother and more muffled, as one would expect. I'm preeettyy sure I heard that... as another commenter said in the single notes.
I can hear the difference. It's subtle, and I can see why someone would prefer one over the other. Which one they prefer is up to their taste. I like the mellow sound of the wax potted, but I wouldn't want to lose the brightness at times, either. But this is about PAF pickups. There are cheap pickups that are INCREDIBLY microphonic. They either need to be wax potted or replaced with better pickups.
Great video to prove this point, the difference definitely noticeable, it's not on every single note in the vid but there's a muffliness to the wax potted pickup. Would consider it to be more than a subtle difference. Thanks.
Many thanks for this useful comparison. To me, the difference is very noticeable, especially on single notes lines: as you said, non potted is more open, with more harmonic overtones. It sounds almost like the difference between a new versus an old set of strings.I would have liked to hear the difference on the bridge PU too!
Thank you for this good demo. I clearly prefered the wax potted, because I always hear the high pitch "klicking" of the pick during play at the non wax potted. This pitch klick was enerving to me.
I think you notice it more when your standing in the sweetspot of a cranced amp. Ask Gary Moore. I have never had the ugly squeal that people talk about and i play a marshall dimed. Still waiting on the 1959 gibson tribs vs tho backs haha.
Thanks Jon for a very good vid. A very slight noticeable difference in the bass notes..........that's it for me..........just slightly less clarity of the note.
Great video and thanks for taking the time to do this! It is a subtle difference of slightly less treble response. However, this actually isn’t the best test. The difference would be more noticeable with a much louder amp and more notes at the higher end of the neck, especially with skillful vibrato as it would excite more of the resonances which should be more evident without the wax potting. Edge of feedback sounds would likely show more differences.
I was fairly subtle, but I could hear the difference. I have several Throbak sets and prefer non potted. I occasionally get a squeal if too close to the speaker, or gain and or volume too high. That just tells me...gain and or volume up too high! Thanks Jon. Keep up the great work on pickups and video's~
If one listens to this through a good pair of headphones, the difference is not so subtle. I can clearly hear that the wax potted ones are much darker and muffled sounding. Maybe not so much on the higher registers, but certainly very noticeable on the lower notes. Great demo Jon!
I found this video when searching to see if the unpotted pick ups commonly "pop" when you tap them. At 3:30 you can hear that they do indeed pop, so thank you for verifying that my pick ups aren't damaged or miswired. (1961 ES-335). I think the tone difference stands out more on a hollow, or semi hollow, guitar, as the resonance of the instrument transfers to the pickup. However, whatever subtle difference, I'm sure it can be compensated for with a turn of the tone knobs
A lot of the noise you get when when your pick hits the pup comes from the pup cover itself … You can reduce it by removing the cover … which also makes the top of the pup a little lower. Or wax just the gap between the cover and pup, (which doesn’t change the capacitance, hence frequency response of the pickup).
Great video. My experience is exactly the same as you decribed. My new Les Paul came with unpotted pickups. They sure give a great feel but when you load on the distortion, especially with a Marshall or Mesa Boogie, the top end is just too ice picky. Also, unpotted squeal more in theose circrumstances. I managed to get some (lightly) potted Custombuckers, they work much better for me. If you play only clean/cleanish and with certain amps, unpotted are fantastic. Otherwise, potted are so much more versatile.
Although its a pretty minor distinction, it's very clear to me that the unwaxed are more open in the high end; waxed definitely more muddy sounding. Thanks for the demo!
I definitely heard a qualitative difference between the two types, even with wimpy laptop speakers, which kind of surprised me. I can only imagine that the "feel" of playing this guitar live in the room exposed even greater difference. The unpotted had more brilliance and "air," if you know what that means. But I was sold on unpotted just with the tapping-on-the-covers demonstration - I can deduce from that that the unpotted pickups will reproduce more of the guitar body vibrations and such, beyond just the string vibrations. Anyway, as soon as I can afford a new set of humbucking pickups, unpotted it is!
Thanks for the nice comparison! I wax pot my pickups if they squeal. I seem to feel like I "hear" a treble difference when I play wax potted pickups but I when listened to your comparison on the computer through headphones and on a high definition television, to my surprise, I didn't really hear any difference. A very interesting demo!
Was listening from a distance and could not see the titles. Could hear a distinct difference between the non-waxed and waxed. Definitely a more open and full sound with non-waxed. Thx for the demo! I'll stick with my '74 T-tops unwaxed!
I believe depending on the music you play, no wax may be the way to go. It could be argued that wax is also good. I personally like feedback, the good feedback.
Just a speck of tiny echo and overtones,definitely more lively unpotted,and I was just about to pot a humbucker,before I upgrade from SSS to a HSS on a strat I have,you saved me the trouble,although this microphonic pickup didn't work in the 335 firefly it came in, I think it will do fine in the strat, thanks for the video.
I heard the difference and I wasn't even wearing headphones. LOL. It is subtle and it's not earth-shaking, but you do get a little bit more out of the non-waxed ones.
The difference isn't just subtle it is VERY subtle... However, If you are doing an A/B comparison with amp settings as clean as what you played, I think is not nearly the best way to compare waxed pickups relative to non waxed pickups. Take into strong consideration what the sole reason or purpose behind wax potting pick ups. In other words, use over drive/gain to make a complete and accurate tonal comparison along with any other differences under those conditions.
There was a definite difference to me in the upper mids as far as what I'd call mild fuzzy harmonics with the non-waxed P/U. It seemed the waxed tended to attenuate the overtones more. Both were pleasing and I'd imagine the Amp response has a lot to do with it. The waxed felt a little more biting to me. Honestly they both sounded good but the nuances were the difference.
I thought they sounded similar enough that it wouldn't matter to me which I used. But, I watched a video of Billy Gibbons playing an SG on a smaller stage once, and the guitar was putting out a great deal of hand and pick noises, so much so that it really made the guitar sound bad. I didn't know if that was simply a really microphonic pickup or if maybe the subtle differences between potted and non-potted pickups really come out when it is cranked up to a high volume. Great video/information.
I got a pair of burstbuckers without wax potting and comparing to the standard 57 Classics they have better sustain and more feedback and that's how I like them.
I could really really hear a HUGE difference!!!! The non-wax potted are far superior to scream into until your gut splits open!!! And for tapping on the pickup with your pick the non-wax potted again takes top honors!!!
so, if you pot the pickups, just add a bit more treble to the amp or guitar...then you will be slightly brighter. i'm about to pot some schaller golden 50s because they are very microphonic. so bad that you can use them as a microphone. i dont think i would pot a $200 pickup. but these schallers may just be saved and be usable in a jazz guitar
THANK YOU for this video! Very useful!! I think it's clear that there's a difference between the two ... maybe you have to listen to it with fresh ears, not immediately after having play ...I think anyway the feeling when you play it's so important for the recordings... And yes! the difference it's not enormous but there is a clear difference ...maybe you can try also with compressed , eqed guitar ... I really think that a classic guitar mix treatment could make this subtle difference more and more clear and push out it .... THANK YOU AGAIN ! For me your accurate comparison has been so important! Compliments!
I find that non-wax potted pickups are better suited to the airier nature of the 335 type guitar. I think that in the Les Paul airiness is not as critical to the nature of the guitar and it makes little difference. I feel that one can always darken up the sound with volume, compression and overdrive, but you can't add airiness that isn't there to begin with. My two cents!
Great video, very honest straight up comparison. I can hear a very slight difference in the top end when you played the scales up and down the neck. But to my ear it was so subtle that it would be totally unnoticeable if I wasn’t deliberately listening for it (and watching your text coming up on the screen). I reckon the difference in feel is possibly down to the psychological effect in knowing which pickup you are using? A more true test would be to run a blind test where you had absolutely no idea which pickup you were playing.
It is a dynamic thing. You retain high frequencies if you roll the volume off, you don’t really get that with overly potted pick ups. It opens up the pick up to allow for less compression and more dynamics. Wax potted pick ups tend to have more compression naturally.
The difference is not at all subtle. It's quite stark, in my opinion. The potting definitely makes the pickup less airy, as we would expect. However, one needs to consider why potting was added in the first place. Turn up the volume and the gain, and you realise that the microphonic airiness of the non-potted pickup might be a detriment. You can always adjust the tone controls on the amp, but this really comes down to personal preference, personal goals, and musical style. Me, I think I lean toward non-potted.
Thank you for the comparison. My 2 cents: I prefer the airy unpotted sound in this demo. The unpotted pickup is less mushy and cuts through more. However at about 4:33 on, I can hear your guitar pick hitting the treble pickup which adds an unpleasant clicking sound everytime the guitar pick touches the treble pickup. This is not as noticeable on the potted pickup. So the unpotted pickup which is more sensitive requires more careful picking technique, or maybe a lower pickup height, and the potted pickup is more forgiving when the guitar pick hits the pickup. However some people may not mind the clicking sound since it does add a percussive sound, but I prefer a cleaner sound with no clicking. The unwaxed pickup is prefered for the more open sound since I am not a high gain style player these days.
Wax dilemma.... I have measured the winding capacitance after deep waxing and yes it does increase the winding capacitance little bit, depending on how deep the impregnation is..Vacuum would be needed to help get this fully penetrated, however the vacuum tends to pull the winding apart slightly , need to finish with pressure applied to keep the winding tight...So yes as you said, a bit loss of highs and some of that mechanical acoustic resonance mojo not there any more... Also depends on the potting material used..When the cap goes up the 2nd order Pole , electrical resonant frequency goes down, however the Q increases, thus can make the treble peak at a partial frequency...not always good.. My best sounding guitars have a bit of mechanical resonance in the pickups, so they pick up the "wood" body resonance and sound amazing...I need to stand in a certain spot to avoid the feedback when the amps are cranked..However playing small stages my band gets pissed when the guitar feeds-back.. Easy solution is to pot the pickup...but I will not... due to the fear of losing that mechanical acoustic resonance that makes that guitar sound amazing... Thanks for your terrific videos..
It may be the case that the difference becomes more noticeable with time. The non wax potted pickup windings will move by expansions and contractions due to heat while the potted pickup windings not so much...
I'd say the microphonic qualities of the unwaxed pickups make more of a difference in acoustic and semi-acoustic guitars. I was really impressed by my Seth Lover PAFs (Seymour Duncan) in my 335 clone. I will test them against the unmodded variation of the same instrument as soon as I visit my friend whom I gave the first 335 to as a present because he liked it so much. And got myself the same guitar again.
definitely a difference, but the less I pay attention to reading which one is which, the more I realize that I'd definitely prefer to wax pot since I play a lot of high gain stuff. I can see that it would be cool to have a non potted one for lower gain settings. very handy demonstration... I think people can be comfortable knowing that if they have a good pickup, good amp tone, and good hands that know how to play... wax potting isn't going to even almost kill their tone in any imaginable manner,.
Really didn't notice much difference at all and I felt you did an excellent job of A / B editing the video. If I was given the choice and the cost was the same I would opt for the wax potted option just for the ability to play at very high gain levels and not have to worry about small microphonic qualities becoming audible.
great vid Jon ! there is a difference and it comes out depending on the way you play. i love unpotted pu but the way i see it they got limited use, when you crank up the volume/ gain they rerely behave. the covers play a role too in all this......so my pu of choice is a potted open coil ✌🏼
Well well, you learn something every day. I loved the non wax jobbys... I can hear the wood, great sound, it’s more musical, it’s just a nicer tone. Thank you so much for this, now I’ve gotta find out what type I have on my guitars and play live with some decent non waxed potted pups.
I can tell a difference. The potting muffles it a bit and less open. I like potted vintage pickups but I definitely hear the difference. I use the burstbuckers which from what I understand only have the bobins potted, not the whole pickup.
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It's all in my head...It's all in my head...It's all in my head
What I’ve always noticed is the wax potting removes the “air” quality of the top end. I notice it more live than recorded. Thanks Jon for another interesting and informative video!
I agree, I do think it is most noticeable live.
I run PAF style scatter-wound Tonerider AC2s in all my Les Pauls they are a PAF type except they are wax potted.
They all have that "airy" tone with great note separation, dynamics, awesome sustain and the bell-like sound.
I've played the un-waxed PAFs from Seth Lover and Mojotone 59, they are not better sonically than the waxed Toneriders and they are more apt to sqealing feedback.
I thought so too, maybe a tiny tiny bit. Then I started thinking what if I’m hearing what I perceive a wax potted pickup to sound like. Because the 2 recordings are really really close.
The best, nerdiest, way to do it would be to conduct the experiment blind.
The wax suffocates litteraly the sound. Same with copper shielding foil.
You have to be deff to not hear the difference, it is like day and night..
That’s one of the reasons that true vintage pickups sound and feel better then the production nowadays, of course with the exception of whom make them as the old days..
Thank you for taking the time to do this video…
Definitely heard the difference. I’m glad I ordered a guitar that has non waxed. Kiesel Holdsworth
I'd be interested to know how non wax potted pups would react in a 335 or semi-hollow. Would there be more hum, or would there be feedback? I have black 335 dot that I absolutely love the feel of, quite worn in, but the pups are way too dark/muddy. They were replaced before I got it & have no idea what they, but I highly doubt they're Gibson. So! I'm on the prowel for a replacement set, likely ThroBaks, if I go non wax route. I play mostly cleans to crunch, some classic rock. Mostly Steve Cropper style, and I know a T style is more appropriate for that, but I prefer Gibson on the scale & single coils don't do it for me (even though they sound great, of course).
Night and day difference, unpotted sounds so much sweeter and more open.
4:10 can hear how potted has more muffled sound than no potted pickup.
I absolutely hear the difference - Now plug that non- potted pickup into a high volume amp and you have pure magic!
I was shocked that I could hear a difference on the treble strings and I preferred the wax potted. Just had a nicer tone but I could hear no difference at all on the base side of the neck. The low strings all sounded the same to me. Thanks for doing this research I don't think anyone else on the internet has done something like this. Certainly answers a question that I've had for a while
This was 4 years ago! We're was I we're was I ?? Glad to see this! Thank you
So subtle that it it’s not worth getting one’s jeans in a knot over it. Bedroom cork sniffers love obsessing over this stuff, but you can barely hear a difference with just the guitar being heard; put that guitar in a mix and forget about hearing a significant difference. I’ll personally worry more about playing meaningful notes. But wax potted pickups with Loud playing on a small stage with hi gain sure makes life easier for a gigging musician. I used to think that non wax potting may make sense in a studio, but after hearing this I don’t think it would matter once the guitar tracks are placed in the mix. But the “you do you Bro” maxim applies, as always.
Great sounding pickups either way.
Really fair assessment you made. With a heavily over driven amp at high volume you would hear a big difference in -between notes if sustained or after decay with more noise.. I do agree with you that non potted is more alive with more undertones/nuances. and subtleties.
Great work !!!
I can hear a difference- minor but it’s there. I had a set that were not potted and there were amazing at low to medium volume. Much more sustain and responsive.
God I love Throwback videos. All the thought experiments and bar room "what ifs" played out right in front of our eyes by someone who, as near as has no practical consequence, winds absolutely historically accurate pickups (short of having a time machine). Absolutely enthralling food for the brain. Love it. Respect from the U.K.
About 12 years ago, I swapped out the stock Gibson neck pickup, of my '79 ES-175, for a Duncan Seth Lover (Alnico 2, and no wax potting). When I played some chord-melody stuff, it sounded like a towel was lifted off my amp ('73 Fender Twin Reverb). I've never had to use this guitar in a high volume situation, but just for playing for my own enjoyment, I definitely enjoy the more "acoustic-like" sound.
Hear and feel the difference..little bit more glassy unwaxed..I've tried this experiment and most people say they cant hear the difference but I definitely do.
also.,.,. totally appreciate your willingness to not be bound to your bias. i think it shows confidence in your excellent pickup making skills.
Well done! I think the difference was clearly noticeable.
Interesting..I didn't think I would be able to tell a difference but I can..the wax potted pups sound more dull and not as chimey/open as the non wax potted pups..its not a huge difference but its there. Its enough of a difference that I will always use non wax potted pups. Thanks for doing this.
Very little difference. They both sounds great, and guess thats the main thing. BUT, I think you are right - its a feel thing…
I could definitely hear the difference…the potted version sounded muffled and not as chimey…
I do not record. If I did, this may not be a significant difference. However, nuance is paramount. Most of todays music is lacking in critical nuance, which many people do not realize is missing. Call it the soul of the music if you will. Many desirable sounds are almost impossible to convey in recorded video. Kudos for trying to enlighten us.
Non-potted is definitely more “jangly” and reminiscent of 50s kinda sound. Useful information right here, thanks and keep them coming!
this is what I tried on a set of strat pickups ( i think were swapped out) I dipped them for 20-30 mins. watching the bubbles come out but more because I didnt want the top plate to melt as i believe it was plastic. I threw them back in and it got rid of the microphonic issue but sounded numb/dull. I did a few quick dips after the original dip to add extra coats of wax. I reheated them a few days later ( probably the following weekend) with a hair dryer and let all the "free wax" drip off. Got my sound back and still didnt get any microphonics.
I heard pretty much zero difference. Very good A/B test though one of the best I've seen. Very quick and sudden changes back and forth is very helpful so that our ears don't forget.
I’ve had problems with unpotted pickups squealing (I play a full stack). Removing the cover didn’t even seem to help at all. But then, I put the cover back on with some gaffer tape on top of the non-adjustable poles, and made sure the cover went on very tight, and the squealing was gone. Make sure those covers are on tight and use the gaffer tape trick if you have any issues, before wax potting!
The Silicone RTV treatment will accomplish the same as the gaffers tape. Gaffers tape adhesive will harden over time and may be difficult to clean off.
Another interesting comparison. I did notice the difference in the early scales playing more so on the low strings. The higher strings tended to sound the same on my laptop.
This is good stuff.. I can definitely hear a difference in the single strings being played but not as much in the chords. The single notes do breathe a little more to my ears though. Just my two cents...
same here
I agree completely, on single notes they sound a touch janglier, seems like I can hear more overtones out of the unpotted pickups. Not enough of a difference to care about, in my opinion, certainly not enough to sacrifice the additional stability/predictability of a potted version. Maybe for studio players it would be worth caring about. I know how you damn guitar players are about imagined and real tonal differences, though...
Yes this was useful. Noticeable. I realize that I haven’t played live through an amp for 13 years. I am a pit guitarist on a touring show and the sound designer insists on having no stage PA. Basically all in-ear. Unwaxed pot would not be a problem I guess. And it would sound pretty open and clear. Just have to remember I have unwaxed pickups if I end up on a different show with speakers again.
Hi, Addicted 2 tone, well I must say that I am sitting here listening to this and you must have bloody dogs ears because I sure can't here a difference. Now I have Duncan Antiquities unpotted and Pearly Gates potted and yes there is a definite difference, but they are two entirely different pickups. I think that yes , Throbaks and Wizz and a lot of other pickups are great sounding pickups, but It's a crime that the price tag is outrageous. I guess if you've got bucks to burn then go for it. I think people place too much attention on this pickup and that pickup, when really it doesn't matter that much. It comes down to talent. I heard David Myhre, back up guitarist for Don Felder of the Eagles at the Casino Niagara and he was playing through a cheap Fender Deluxe Reverb reissue and he smoked. So It's not the bloody pickups that matter that much when it comes down to being a professional touring musician. It's strictly talent. Yeah I don't deny that a set of Throbaks would sound good. But for now, I stick with my Duncans. Even cost a good few bucks.
I had the same opinion. Couldn't hear much difference in chords but could in single notes.
In my opinion, no wax is noticeably brighter. With wax is noticeably warmer. My ear also seems to hear a bit more beefyness in the bottom end on the wax pickup as well. Very interesting to be able to A/B the two. Very well done video!
The difference side by side, the wax potted had a wet blanket kind of sound. If I just heard it on the radio, I wouldn't have known. If it wasn't side by side I wouldn't have known if they were or were not wax potted. What I will attest to is how the guitar interacts with the amp, the note bloom, openness, and high end when playing a non-potted pickup. I felt like I was fighting my guitar just trying to get tones out of it and make it do things that should just be natural to a Les Paul. Found some old unpotted humbuckers and that was it. So there you go. Take it for what it's worth.
The diff is subtle here but it's not that subtle. And that's at low gain & modest volume. But you described it perfectly... Non wax potted is more lively w/ brighter highs and more of the acoustic tone coming through(as if a piezo was very slightly blended in with the humbucker). HOWEVER, I guarantee you, with a cranked, dirty amp(ala Marshall) the diff is even bigger. The non potted sounds even more alive & electric. Those little microphonics jump out on certain notes and you get a lot of magical accidental harmonics. That's what I've noticed when I hear Burstbuckers(not the Pros), for example, thru a loud Marshall. The diff is not so subtle then. They def sound more alive and natural(vintage).
Hey Jon,
Super video like your style of explanation very straightforward very honest. My experience with wax potting is this, none of my guitars are wax potted, except for one. It’s a 60s re-issue SG in which I put in Lindy Fraillan P 90s in... only problem is when I started getting into some gain on my amp and sitting pretty much far away 2 to 3000 cycles came out like a knife. I called Lindy and spoke to him about it he said send the pick ups back we will change them out. So I did got the new ones installed same result. I called him again and he said I will wax pot them.... got them back same result. I sent the guitar to my personal guitar tech at SF guitar works, Mike said OK let’s give it more wax. He knew what I wanted I’ve worked with him for years it turned out he said he wax potted them three I times maybe four times then the feedback stopped ....he said it was like a brick of wax could barely fit back in ...cut out in fact I think he rounded it down a little bit to make it fit. When I got the guitar back no matter how much gain I put on it no feedback whatsoever and frankly I thought the tone was great ....however I did notice that yes there was a little less high-end , and a little less of the acoustic value .....this is the only guitar that I’ve done that with like I said. In the beginning I went back-and-forth with the same exact gain settings , with different guitars, to make sure it wasn’t something I was doing wrong but none of the other guitars had any problems only the SG. That’s my story sorry it’s long.
I like non wax potted neck pickups but need wax potted bridge pickups. I found that I tended to roll the tone off more than usual when I had a non wax potted bridge pickup. Plus, my band typically plays on small stages and we are loud enough that uncontrollable feedback is an issue. If I was just playing at home I would probably go non wax potted 100% of the time on both pickups, but that extra treble and tendency to feedback more than I want is enough to keep me was potting my bridge pickups. However, that extra chime from a non wax potted neck is crucial and helps so much with clarity.
John has the best pickups in the world bar none and I’ve heard them all . I had a 335 with early Patent pickups, and the guitar felt alive in the hands... that’s worth it’s weight in gold.
This reminds me a little of using dampers on tubes to reduce vibrational noise in combo amps. They work but they also reduce the airy overtones that make good tubes sound good. So I've learned to live with a little sympathetic rattle if it means keeping the full harmonic signal.
That doesn't make a damn bit of sense. I think you're imagining things there. Rattling tubes produce "airy overtones"?🤣
You sound like exactly the kind of person who would spend $600 on a set of pickups..
Great comparison video. Unwaxed sounded much better to my ears, particularly when playing single sting parts.
Great video. The difference was pretty noticeable to me. Very valuable for my next pickup purchase.
frankly I'm more amazed how you were able to perfectly match the volumes (given that you unscrewed the pickups and put them back !!!) and even your seating position was matched, I could barely tell that the video switched between the two audios OR videos, lol.
This is exactly something I was wondering about yesterday or the day before, and now you made a video on it. I love this channel. Keep reading my mind
Based on what I heard, the unpotted has some nice hollowness on each note. The potted has solid notes, like a filled can of beer, where the unpotted was like the empty ones. They all work on their own worlds. Unpotted is for studios and potted is for live. Informative video! Thanks a lot.
A lot of players perform live with unpotted pickups with no issues also.
@@ThroBakChannelI guess it depends on style, because high gain metal with a loud amp... big no to unpotted pickups, don't you think?
The recording differences are subtle, but the wax potted samples sounded slightly smoother and more muffled, as one would expect. I'm preeettyy sure I heard that... as another commenter said in the single notes.
Yes, very useful! I did not notice any different at all. But then again I wear a hearing aid in each ear.
I can hear the difference. It's subtle, and I can see why someone would prefer one over the other. Which one they prefer is up to their taste. I like the mellow sound of the wax potted, but I wouldn't want to lose the brightness at times, either. But this is about PAF pickups. There are cheap pickups that are INCREDIBLY microphonic. They either need to be wax potted or replaced with better pickups.
Great video to prove this point, the difference definitely noticeable, it's not on every single note in the vid but there's a muffliness to the wax potted pickup. Would consider it to be more than a subtle difference. Thanks.
Many thanks for this useful comparison. To me, the difference is very noticeable, especially on single notes lines: as you said, non potted is more open, with more harmonic overtones. It sounds almost like the difference between a new versus an old set of strings.I would have liked to hear the difference on the bridge PU too!
Noticeable difference in high end frequency’s. Subtle but definitely there. I would like to hear this with a higher gain or overdriven tone. Thanks
Thank you for this good demo.
I clearly prefered the wax potted, because I always hear the high pitch "klicking" of the pick during play at the non wax potted. This pitch klick was enerving to me.
I think you notice it more when your standing in the sweetspot of a cranced amp. Ask Gary Moore. I have never had the ugly squeal that people talk about and i play a marshall dimed. Still waiting on the 1959 gibson tribs vs tho backs haha.
Thanks Jon for a very good vid. A very slight noticeable difference in the bass notes..........that's it for me..........just slightly less clarity of the note.
Great video and thanks for taking the time to do this! It is a subtle difference of slightly less treble response. However, this actually isn’t the best test. The difference would be more noticeable with a much louder amp and more notes at the higher end of the neck, especially with skillful vibrato as it would excite more of the resonances which should be more evident without the wax potting. Edge of feedback sounds would likely show more differences.
I was fairly subtle, but I could hear the difference. I have several Throbak sets and prefer non potted. I occasionally get a squeal if too close to the speaker, or gain and or volume too high. That just tells me...gain and or volume up too high!
Thanks Jon. Keep up the great work on pickups and video's~
If one listens to this through a good pair of headphones, the difference is not so subtle. I can clearly hear that the wax potted ones are much darker and muffled sounding. Maybe not so much on the higher registers, but certainly very noticeable on the lower notes. Great demo Jon!
The biggest difference I noticed was at 4:10 when you started playing chords in that riff. There was more clarity with the non-waxed pickups.
I found this video when searching to see if the unpotted pick ups commonly "pop" when you tap them. At 3:30 you can hear that they do indeed pop, so thank you for verifying that my pick ups aren't damaged or miswired. (1961 ES-335). I think the tone difference stands out more on a hollow, or semi hollow, guitar, as the resonance of the instrument transfers to the pickup. However, whatever subtle difference, I'm sure it can be compensated for with a turn of the tone knobs
A lot of the noise you get when when your pick hits the pup comes from the pup cover itself … You can reduce it by removing the cover … which also makes the top of the pup a little lower.
Or wax just the gap between the cover and pup, (which doesn’t change the capacitance, hence frequency response of the pickup).
No wax for me. Very helpful comparison. Thank you!
Great video. My experience is exactly the same as you decribed. My new Les Paul came with unpotted pickups. They sure give a great feel but when you load on the distortion, especially with a Marshall or Mesa Boogie, the top end is just too ice picky. Also, unpotted squeal more in theose circrumstances.
I managed to get some (lightly) potted Custombuckers, they work much better for me. If you play only clean/cleanish and with certain amps, unpotted are fantastic. Otherwise, potted are so much more versatile.
They are so similar that I wouldn't personally worry if mine were waxed or not!
Thanks Jon - just got an A4 from you for the bridge of the kz115’s in my R8. Hoping to tighten the lows and streamline the mids.
Well done. Love it. I noticed it. Especially the low end, and that's just on my phone.
Although its a pretty minor distinction, it's very clear to me that the unwaxed are more open in the high end; waxed definitely more muddy sounding. Thanks for the demo!
Definitely potting my pick ups, thanks for the video.
I definitely heard a qualitative difference between the two types, even with wimpy laptop speakers, which kind of surprised me. I can only imagine that the "feel" of playing this guitar live in the room exposed even greater difference. The unpotted had more brilliance and "air," if you know what that means. But I was sold on unpotted just with the tapping-on-the-covers demonstration - I can deduce from that that the unpotted pickups will reproduce more of the guitar body vibrations and such, beyond just the string vibrations. Anyway, as soon as I can afford a new set of humbucking pickups, unpotted it is!
Thanks for the nice comparison! I wax pot my pickups if they squeal. I seem to feel like I "hear" a treble difference when I play wax potted pickups but I when listened to your comparison on the computer through headphones and on a high definition television, to my surprise, I didn't really hear any difference. A very interesting demo!
Excellent video, properly edited so you get a real side by side comparison. Good job Jon.
Was listening from a distance and could not see the titles. Could hear a distinct difference between the non-waxed and waxed. Definitely a more open and full sound with non-waxed. Thx for the demo! I'll stick with my '74 T-tops unwaxed!
Who in the world is giving this video a thumbs down? Is wax potting an offensive topic? This video is great! Thanks for sharing.
I believe depending on the music you play, no wax may be the way to go. It could be argued that wax is also good. I personally like feedback, the good feedback.
Good video, there is a nice sizzle of non wax
Just a speck of tiny echo and overtones,definitely more lively unpotted,and I was just about to pot a humbucker,before I upgrade from SSS to a HSS on a strat I have,you saved me the trouble,although this microphonic pickup didn't work in the 335 firefly it came in, I think it will do fine in the strat, thanks for the video.
Very useful, thank you! would be great to hear the test on a hollow body like a 335
Flawless editing. Great Job.
I heard the difference and I wasn't even wearing headphones. LOL. It is subtle and it's not earth-shaking, but you do get a little bit more out of the non-waxed ones.
The difference isn't just subtle it is VERY subtle...
However, If you are doing an A/B comparison with amp settings as clean as what you played, I think is not nearly the best way to compare waxed pickups relative to non waxed pickups.
Take into strong consideration what the sole reason or purpose behind wax potting pick ups.
In other words, use over drive/gain to make a complete and accurate tonal comparison along with any other differences under those conditions.
Definitely a difference... but it's super subtle, at least in this recording. Not sure if it would be enough to make me choose unpotted.
With a couple funny quirps, I see ugene levy. Nice comparison. I liked the wax sound because it took some shrill away.
There was a definite difference to me in the upper mids as far as what I'd call mild fuzzy harmonics with the non-waxed P/U. It seemed the waxed tended to attenuate the overtones more. Both were pleasing and I'd imagine the Amp response has a lot to do with it. The waxed felt a little more biting to me. Honestly they both sounded good but the nuances were the difference.
I thought they sounded similar enough that it wouldn't matter to me which I used. But, I watched a video of Billy Gibbons playing an SG on a smaller stage once, and the guitar was putting out a great deal of hand and pick noises, so much so that it really made the guitar sound bad. I didn't know if that was simply a really microphonic pickup or if maybe the subtle differences between potted and non-potted pickups really come out when it is cranked up to a high volume. Great video/information.
I got a pair of burstbuckers without wax potting and comparing to the standard 57 Classics they have better sustain and more feedback and that's how I like them.
Very nice review topic! 👍 Love it! I'm a wax potting guy. Less microphonic with dirty tones. Thanks for posting this.
I could really really hear a HUGE difference!!!! The non-wax potted are far superior to scream into until your gut splits open!!! And for tapping on the pickup with your pick the non-wax potted again takes top honors!!!
so, if you pot the pickups, just add a bit more treble to the amp or guitar...then you will be slightly brighter. i'm about to pot some schaller golden 50s because they are very microphonic. so bad that you can use them as a microphone. i dont think i would pot a $200 pickup. but these schallers may just be saved and be usable in a jazz guitar
Thank you for the very clear and concise explanation.
THANK YOU for this video! Very useful!! I think it's clear that there's a difference between the two ... maybe you have to listen to it with fresh ears, not immediately after having play ...I think anyway the feeling when you play it's so important for the recordings... And yes! the difference it's not enormous but there is a clear difference ...maybe you can try also with compressed , eqed guitar ... I really think that a classic guitar mix treatment could make this subtle difference more and more clear and push out it .... THANK YOU AGAIN ! For me your accurate comparison has been so important! Compliments!
I find that non-wax potted pickups are better suited to the airier nature of the 335 type guitar. I think that in the Les Paul airiness is not as critical to the nature of the guitar and it makes little difference. I feel that one can always darken up the sound with volume, compression and overdrive, but you can't add airiness that isn't there to begin with. My two cents!
Great video, very honest straight up comparison. I can hear a very slight difference in the top end when you played the scales up and down the neck. But to my ear it was so subtle that it would be totally unnoticeable if I wasn’t deliberately listening for it (and watching your text coming up on the screen). I reckon the difference in feel is possibly down to the psychological effect in knowing which pickup you are using? A more true test would be to run a blind test where you had absolutely no idea which pickup you were playing.
I think you are right.
It is a dynamic thing. You retain high frequencies if you roll the volume off, you don’t really get that with overly potted pick ups. It opens up the pick up to allow for less compression and more dynamics. Wax potted pick ups tend to have more compression naturally.
The difference is not at all subtle. It's quite stark, in my opinion. The potting definitely makes the pickup less airy, as we would expect. However, one needs to consider why potting was added in the first place. Turn up the volume and the gain, and you realise that the microphonic airiness of the non-potted pickup might be a detriment. You can always adjust the tone controls on the amp, but this really comes down to personal preference, personal goals, and musical style. Me, I think I lean toward non-potted.
Thank you for the comparison. My 2 cents: I prefer the airy unpotted sound in this demo. The unpotted pickup is less mushy and cuts through more. However at about 4:33 on, I can hear your guitar pick hitting the treble pickup which adds an unpleasant clicking sound everytime the guitar pick touches the treble pickup. This is not as noticeable on the potted pickup. So the unpotted pickup which is more sensitive requires more careful picking technique, or maybe a lower pickup height, and the potted pickup is more forgiving when the guitar pick hits the pickup. However some people may not mind the clicking sound since it does add a percussive sound, but I prefer a cleaner sound with no clicking. The unwaxed pickup is prefered for the more open sound since I am not a high gain style player these days.
Wax dilemma.... I have measured the winding capacitance after deep waxing and yes it does increase the winding capacitance little bit, depending on how deep the impregnation is..Vacuum would be needed to help get this fully penetrated, however the vacuum tends to pull the winding apart slightly , need to finish with pressure applied to keep the winding tight...So yes as you said, a bit loss of highs and some of that mechanical acoustic resonance mojo not there any more... Also depends on the potting material used..When the cap goes up the 2nd order Pole , electrical resonant frequency goes down, however the Q increases, thus can make the treble peak at a partial frequency...not always good.. My best sounding guitars have a bit of mechanical resonance in the pickups, so they pick up the "wood" body resonance and sound amazing...I need to stand in a certain spot to avoid the feedback when the amps are cranked..However playing small stages my band gets pissed when the guitar feeds-back.. Easy solution is to pot the pickup...but I will not... due to the fear of losing that mechanical acoustic resonance that makes that guitar sound amazing... Thanks for your terrific videos..
It may be the case that the difference becomes more noticeable with time. The non wax potted pickup windings will move by expansions and contractions due to heat while the potted pickup windings not so much...
Brilliant video so informative and love to see a master talking bout something that he knows inside out
More vidoes please
I'd say the microphonic qualities of the unwaxed pickups make more of a difference in acoustic and semi-acoustic guitars. I was really impressed by my Seth Lover PAFs (Seymour Duncan) in my 335 clone. I will test them against the unmodded variation of the same instrument as soon as I visit my friend whom I gave the first 335 to as a present because he liked it so much. And got myself the same guitar again.
definitely a difference, but the less I pay attention to reading which one is which, the more I realize that I'd definitely prefer to wax pot since I play a lot of high gain stuff. I can see that it would be cool to have a non potted one for lower gain settings. very handy demonstration... I think people can be comfortable knowing that if they have a good pickup, good amp tone, and good hands that know how to play... wax potting isn't going to even almost kill their tone in any imaginable manner,.
Really didn't notice much difference at all and I felt you did an excellent job of A / B editing the video. If I was given the choice and the cost was the same I would opt for the wax potted option just for the ability to play at very high gain levels and not have to worry about small microphonic qualities becoming audible.
great vid Jon ! there is a difference and it comes out depending on the way you play. i love unpotted pu but the way i see it they got limited use, when you crank up the volume/ gain they rerely behave. the covers play a role too in all this......so my pu of choice is a potted open coil ✌🏼
Yes a bit better unpotted but could be eq'd to make similar recorded You word's are spot on Very cool
That's it, i'm keeping my unpotted Les Paul.
Well well, you learn something every day. I loved the non wax jobbys... I can hear the wood, great sound, it’s more musical, it’s just a nicer tone. Thank you so much for this, now I’ve gotta find out what type I have on my guitars and play live with some decent non waxed potted pups.
I can tell a difference. The potting muffles it a bit and less open. I like potted vintage pickups but I definitely hear the difference. I use the burstbuckers which from what I understand only have the bobins potted, not the whole pickup.
Very interesting. Glad you did the comparison. Still prefer non-waxed. :-)
I agree Rick.. But I wonder if the compression added by RUclips has any effect on what I hear from here.
Thank you for this comparison!