No. 1 options on really bad offenses | Thinking Basketball
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- Опубликовано: 28 янв 2024
- There can be a razor's edge for young players putting up big stats on bad teams. We discuss these polarizing players, whether they're miscast as primary options, the inconvenient truth about shooting efficiency, and why we're lower - for this season, at least - on players like Cade Cunningham and Paolo Banchero because of it.
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Timestamps
9:36 How good is Cade Cunningham right now?
17:20 The problem with inefficient high load players
26:27 Non-Passing Turnovers / Cade's lack of a superpower
32:30 What young number one options have blossomed or fallen off?
48:40 How valuable will Cade Cunningham and Paolo Banchero be in the future?
Cody: makes an entire segment about wilt chamberlain shooting less and getting a better offense.
Ben: "got anything else?"
We’ve come a long way from Ben just reading numbers for an hour (which was still great btw)
Can we get a podcast on player stats against top teams only? Ex: are Embiids stats suspect?
He played extra minutes to hit 30 against the Knicks and beats up on bad teams. Is this why we see the playoff dropoff?
I've heard it said before (not sure if true) that Embiid is more reliant of free throws to score, and sometimes refs step back from being so whistle-heavy in the post season and the game gets more physical. So I suppose part of his struggles could be not adjusting? I've also heard he's had really bad injury luck around the post season (I haven't gone back to check this either).
I think most of his playoff thing is health related, but we'll try to look into his stats vs. top teams more.
@@moreTB a different wrinkle might be "what player would benefit the most by sitting the 20% of games that would be most challenging"
@@Jacob-gm4hq i dont think he relies on free throws as much as people imply. Being able to draw fouls and able to put the opposing team and players in foul trouble is a massive advantage for your team. I think he relies on the foul calls to put his team at an advantage more than he relies on it to score. He could score 30 easily with his size and skills.
Ty for this. I’ve been really wanting some pistons content and this was a very interesting approach
Devin Booker was a good scorer on a bad team for his first couple of years. A team compositions can greatly affect a players effiencey.
Even a coach can have a huge impact. Kerr had fixed Wiggins bad shot selection in 1 season.
I think coaching can have a major impact in these situations.
I don't think Monty Williams has been good for Cade Cunningham. Stagnant, heliocentric sets when Cade's usage rate shouldn't be that high.
@@jonathanlgill Monty was prioritizing defense in the start of the season which was hurting the spacing. In the 2nd half of the season he started putting more shooters on the floor and Cade's numbers started going up across the board.
His high usage rate makes sense because they have been so desperate for wins.
@@abdielneris4957 Cade has improved throughout the season, and I agree that's a combination of a better surrounding roster around him and him "playing off the rust" after missing nearly a year of professional basketball.
I liked Codys quiz. I paused at one point and guessed my alma mater Clyde Drexel
He got me so good. I was sleep deprived and had no clue who he was talking about.
My guess as well.
Speaking of Banchero's superpower, have you guys done an episode about players with so-called superpowers?
I think we discussed this idea once. Will look more into it.
@@moreTB Would absolutely love to watch/listen to a pod about it; love knowing what would even be considered superpowers in the first place, since so many of these players are just so impressive athletically.
Don't know if it was here or on another podcast, but I wanted to shout out Cody with the gnarly psycho thriller references ("What's in the box", "Time is a flat circle") from his midwestern basement in the woods amongst the running owls, while Ben keeps it gentleman with the classic "Back to the Future" reference
@33:19 Person and doggo in the background
@36:25 Does Cam Thomas fall into this bucket?
Can we please get a pelicans/ Brandon Ingram podcast? I watch him and see a really good player, but advanced stats hate him. Would like to hear you guys’ thoughts
Guys I hope you realise that players on young rebuilding teams like the Magic have Paolo doing reps on the double teams he will be facing in the playoffs. This is not the end product. They are developing their floor spacers or will attempt to bring them in via free agency or trade.
Also the plus minus game looks bad because they are still developing on the other side of the ball as well as they are constantly up against the opposition starters.
A former Magic player who made the All star team was the worse player in the NBA according to plus minus.
Paolo is a better passer than Cade, he's also surrounded by the worst 3PT shooting teams. Paolo's best role is a secondary playmaker so his strength doesn't get mitigated. Hate when they give Paolo the ball at the top of the key and allow double/triple teams
Is there any place that tracks the number of types of turnovers players have (i.e. stepping out of bounds, etc.)?
PBPStats.com has it
While Ben does mention he isn't interested in Cade's "big scoring month" because of the small sample, I do think it's noteworthy that Bojan Bogdanovic returned for his season debut on December 2nd and from that point until his injury game against the Nuggets at the beginning of the month, Cade averaged 24 points, 8 assists, 3 turnovers with ≈ league average true shooting (58.2 specifically if I'm remembering correctly). Bojan at that point was probably the most valuable offensive component to a Pistons team that had no positive floor spacers outside of guards at that point
I do think the Pistons' offensive environment has been absolutely abysmal for the majority of the season, and now with recent changes to the Pistons roster/rotation it's interesting to see how Cade will react
I'm interested in it, I just don't take it at face value (especially the shooting). Subtle but important distinction for me. Agree on the Pistons environment being a confounder.
@34:04 Tank More for Okafor; The Next Time Duncan; I am 23, and you are making me feel old, lol.
I want to ask how extremely bad the team is. It would earn some respect when you can get some stat. since the team is so bad. Putting up even an empty stat would be difficult, right?
Weird that you don't discuss much Wemby when he's kind of the elephant in the room for this conversation, no? Good numbers as nº1 option on a terrible team
I think they mentioned that a whole video on Wemby is coming. Also Wemby is already on of the most impactful defender in the league, I think they wanted to focus on more one-dimensional scorers
He's also more efficient/has way less load/plays less minutes. And is a rookie.
That's fair
Cade and Pablo actually play off the ball a decent amount. I also think monty has done a horrible job of coaching like duren should be a much better defender than he is rn
We need more Jokic content - AKA the best player in the world and of the greatest ever at peak of his powers
Embiid’s son.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing a guy who rides the bench?
BenchRider3000@@Thanosdidtherighthing
@@Thanosdidtherighthing Lol, Embiid got the media trying to say he's better than Shaq. Lol, Shaq won 4 championships! Guy wants to be seen as all time, but has a garbage bag full of excuses. :D
He's right up there with Jordan and Bron at his best!
Im not sure why you get nervous about Paolo he can make the right read, has great vision, has gravity. His shot selection is a weakness but not his fault he doesnt have NBA level shooters around him. His ball handle is the most glaring weakness and should be the most alarming. His on ball defense isn't horrible either. Hes improved his 3PT drastically even if his % has gone down. I just think that Chet gets so much love for being a third option with a cushy team and a MVP level guard. I just dont know how you can watch Paolo and think hes the 20th best guy under 22. Paolo gets double/tripled on the regular, its only going to get easier for him with a legitimate PG...
Thanks for attending my TED TALK
Tldr actually watch basketball games
Agreed, but the issue with eye tests is that some people who advocate only are clearly blind.
Cade Cunningham is like Khris Middleton but without shooting
Damn suspended and traded for not serving a suspension for marijuana, how the league has changed, now the league is chonged 😂
I agree. Cade Cunningham is empty stats. Doesn't move the needle much on defense.