Hello William, I totally agree - this is an informative video not to be seen every day! 👏👏👏 It’s correct that in a band you can “cut through” when you do like Kris showed in the video. Many pro players here in Europe use a ‘non-sound-destructive’ way by using a Deeflexx System that enhances exactly the missing mid and high frequencies to hear yourself. If you still cant hear yourself you should tweak your sound because it will provide the best sound for you, the band and FOH tech. PS: I know that Kris knows this solution too, he talked about Deeflexx in another video on the Thomann channel - they sell it since 1 decade … 👍
Totally. I particularly love Vox. I have a night train which is a bit more rebellious in terms of tone, but doesn’t matter how it’s placed o always hear my self with the band.
My Vox AC15 is so damn loud that I only turn up half way. Definitely Vox sounds very thin and trebly on its own. But in a band it just suddenly became a monster.
@@Jack_Shianit has mid range, but you always can customize your sound. I use it fine always. But I know I can always cut through the mix. Yes. I like my VOX :)
This is an incredibly useful video, one which really demonstrates in an actual band context why some things work and others not so much. We need MORE vids like this please! Also, spend an episode on the mostly overlooked, most powerful tone-shaping pedal around: the EQ.
This Video is so important. It shows that it doesn't need the next pedal or guitar or amp, but to know the gear you already own and to know how to make it sound good in any context. There's so much Voodoo about guitar tone around, mostly to rip people off. There are so many variables in the signal chain (Scale, Neckprofile, Strings, Bridge, Nut, Pickups, Guitar Wiring, Cable, Pedals, Amp (Tubes, Wiring, Output....), Speaker, Mic (Model, Position) to name just a few and it is unpredictable, which of these components make a sound work and cut through. Making music is craftsmenship and you get better by taking your gear to the the test over and over again and not by changing it all year round.
I've been a victim of this due to stubbornly sticking with the tone that sounds good on its own and not tweaking it when in a band setting. Thank you for the demonstration.
More band mix stuff please! this is gold! and i am so glad you guys picked this topic, nobody seems to want to talk about how crap all these great pedals sound in the band
Thanks a lot! I agree with everything except for the "crappy pedals" part. 😆 All my favourite guitar players use / used pedals to get their sound, it just really matters what you use and how you match guitar, pedal and amp. Cheers //Kris
There are multiple separate factors at work here, in most live bands. 1. Can you hear well enough to play? 2. Do you want more of you because it’s the best sound for the band? Or just because you want to hear more of you? 3. The best way to bring something up in a mix is to turn everything else down. When each person is in charge of their own amplification, they resist this because of ego. This is why sound engineers love when everyone uses in ear monitoring. You can adjust the house mix for what sounds good, then feed each of the prima Donna musicians way more of their own sound, so they can feel like the star. I’m not saying there aren’t instances where a harsher, more midrange sound is more appropriate. I’m just saying “I can’t hear myself at all” is rarely the real problem…
I fully agree. That's exactly why my recommendation was to focus on the "right" frequencies for guitar in order to hear yourself enough, instead of just turning the amp up more and more. That's where the chaos begins... when everyone's turning up more and more. A never ending cycle. //Kris
@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses thank you for that response. I agree completely. Rereading my comment, it comes across as critical of the video. That wasn’t my intent; I was just typing stream of consciousness.
It's always amazing when Julia makes an appearance 💖 And usually it's the guitar that's obnoxiously loud in a band, and the bass and some of the drums get lost in the mix 😂
An entire series on setting up for live gigs (with the kit a new band might have) would be amazing. The number of starter band live gigs I've seen with nothing but high end hiss ...
I have to point out that Chris was playing a telecaster which is already famous for cutting through the mix. I imagine it might be even more striking with a strat or a humbucker-equiped guitar.
I found this out playing live for so many years. What sounds good alone rarely works well with a bass (low end), acoustic (top and bottom), keys (everything) and drums (low end and high end cymbals). Frustrating but true.
I have tweaked my sounds for my last CD and recorded as it is. I get on stage with the same setup - even the miking! - and don’t want to change anything to my sound. Instead I use my Deeflexx Systems and me and the band can hear the guitar sound with all details - simple as that!
I've had this revelation when I used a Klon-Style pedal in band rehearsal. Played alone it sounded very boxy and unpleasant, but in the mix when I got to the solo part and turned it on it was magnificent! Even my bassplayer said it was the best tone he heard from me in a while.
Absolutely! I had the same experience. The Klon style midrange is a super powerful thing when playing with a band. No wonder the Centaur was called the "professional overdrive". It's made for the live musician. //Kris
Totally agree. When I use my Klon-clone, it cuts through the mix so well. Alone, I thought it was a little anemic sounding, but I've certainly changed my tune. Same with my other pedals... I now favor mostly mid-rangy gain pedals
Really important demonstration for us sound engineers! Shows the importance of EQ’ing on the stage mixer, creating a sonic “hole” for each instrument to be heard in - and of course tailoring the stage monitors to give an appropriate mix to each performer, so they can hear themselves clearly.
As a bass player, I'm not very fond of this sonic hole approach. Because every sound engineer assumes it'll be alright to cut away the definition and just leave the low end in. They don't realize I am also the band's rhythm guitar. No matter how many times I tell them to leave the mids and treble IN they always think they know better. Some quickly fix their mistake. Some don't. Their job is not to create holes; it is to amplify the sound coming off my cabinet goddamnit!
@@ditmarvanbelle1061 oh, I must have been trained differently then. I was trained to leave the bass frequencies alone but pan it one side or the other to create the hole… sorry you’ve had difficulty
Great video - but I would have loved to hear a bit more about what the solution should be (it can't possibly be just use a different pedal, as there is absolutely nothing wrong with either of these pedals) - I'm guessing it is to adjust the EQ on the amp, so would have liked to have seen what effect certain EQ adjustments have on the mix sound in the room vs. how those now sound in the close mic.
The answer here and generally is EQ, have an EQ pedal on your board. Guitar is a midrange instrument and you should try to set your presets with a band or at least a backing track at home. The reason is exactly that when playing alone we fill all frequencies because it sounds better alone, but with a band, low end and high end are covered by bass and drums, so your sound should have less bass and be more focused on mid range, or it will get lost. In terms of guitar another aspect that is important is where the EQ sections are in relation to the distortion sections. Adding bass before or after distortion results in MASSIVELY different tones for example. For tight sounds, you should cut bass BEFORE distortion. You can add later and you l'll have a tight and yet big sound. Distorting a bass heavy sound results in a fuzzy sound, and generally, distorting the low end is the reason fuzzes sound like they do. A Muff for example can sound metal AF if you cut bass before going into it.
@@lucasgoncalvesdefaria7121 I disagree, that blues driver pedal has a LOT of tone that can be added (I own one), in my band I increase the tone on the blues driver until I get the cut through the frequencies I need when all of us are together (trio). Looking at the stills, it looks like his blue pedal is set around 10 o'clock, i would set it to 2 or 3 o'clock and it would definitely cut through then.
When developing the Deeflexx Systems it turned out (again!) that the presence of frequencies in the midrange is the key to hear yourself better - that’s the way our hearing works. The first step is to increase the mids on the amp, use a EQ pedal in the loop to shape the sound and/or use pedals like Tube Screamer. BUT: All this will change the characteristic of the sound. Experienced players use a Deeflexx that reflects/deflects those missing mids and highs and your bandmates can hear exact the same sound like you. Players like Marcus Deml, Axel Ritt, Aynsley Lister, Eamonn McCormack do it this way for more than 10 years - they don’t want a change in their sound ! 🎸🔊_/😀 PS: You will find A/B tests on my channel like episode “Deeflexx vs Beam Blocker Devices” …
I agree - once you have discovered the effect of a Deeflexx there is no need to tweak the sound with pedals / EQ to hear yourself better. I can hear myself in any band, no matter if I played with my 3-piece band or together with Jan Akkerman, Joanna Connor or more guitarists on stage.
I just turn my amp (fender blues deluxe ) around so it faces the wall .The sound hits the wall ,spreads out,comes back to me and the audience It sounds great no-one has said they can’t heat me.
@@jcoxjc27 Hi Jamie ! 😀 Yes I know about this "trick" from my old days in the 80s and later. You can use a piece of cardboard to get nearly the same. The problem is, that the different travel times of the front and back sound waves cause phase cancellations that change the sound because of the comb filter effect. It means too, that with different surfaces of the back wall, the sound changes at every venue. That wasn't acceptable for the pro players - they asked for a better solution. I have explained this in a video about the history of beam blocker devices and show some of these old tricks. ### Deeflexx vs Beam Blocker Devices --- ruclips.net/video/F2EB2k-djpc/видео.htmlsi=2z0SuKgneLWoJu0K A second video shows even better how phase cancellations can influence the sound of an amp or cab. ### Deeflexx vs sound shields ---ruclips.net/video/sR7LSWO5nAA/видео.htmlsi=MTvjrpSCzEfjqPUh And I dont think I can convince a James Burton, Eamonn McCormack, Carl Verheyen, Aynsley Lister or Marcus Deml to turn around their amps instead of using Deeflexx Systems ... If the trick is ok for you - it's ok for me! 👍😀
Kris, So incredibly thrilled to see you and definitely Julia. She's such a talent. You two would make one hell of a band. You also managed to get away with playing recorded music. Don't get demonetized 😅😂😂
Hey, thanks so much for the kind words! Yeah, it's always a pleasure playing music with Julia and of course with my dude, Lukas on drums. Amazing musicians. We'll see if they block the video because of the songs, hopefully not. 😆 Cheers //Kris
Steve Vai's concert was so nice, his tone was so mid/low-mid rangy and could be heard even though loud drums, and also bass could be heard nicely. I like his pickups for sure.
A lot of people are shocked just how loud live drums are, (and Mini-Moogs), so this is why you rely on a sound mixer out in the crowd in a live setting to balance the band across the space.
Great video on a very important and often overlooked topic. The Blues Driver is a great pedal, I mostly use it only for guitar solos, and amp distortion for rhythm playing. Another important thing that didn´t get mentioned in the video: You generally don´t need as much gain/distortion as you think. Of course it depends on the style of music and the band sound but less gain works wonders for cutting through in a band mix.
It's a very simple video (from the content point of view, not effort and production point of view), but a very useful one, as it demonstrates what most of us are inteested in when it comes to comparisons and understanding what works and what doesn't.
Nice! I have two EQ pedals on my board for this reason. a BOSS GE-7 to remove a bit of bass and push forward a mid-heavy sound, and a WMD Utility Parametric EQ for a fuller sound when I don't need to worry about competing for bass player frequencies
This is a great demonstration. I had a similar experience playing clean electric guitar with a grand piano as main instrument. My guitar tone was perfect by itself but it got buried by the piano. Thanks for offering real-world solutions.
This is gold, I ran into the same problem years ago when I used a metal master pedal. By myself it was great but it got lost in a live mix, I ended up using my clean channel with the presence turned up to finish the gig. It wasn't what I wanted to do but it had to be done. Valuable lesson learned.
I understand that you want to sell pedals and stuff, so I get the treble discussion on different pedals. BUT actually, the most important thing in a situation like that is where you put the amp in the room and where you put yourself. If you have the amp near the floor and you stay right in front of it the sound is gonna hit you in the legs, not your ears. The reason the drummer could hear you always is because he is far away from the amp. So people, try to place your amp in a way that hits everybody's ears in the same way. Bring your amp up on a table or something, or if you cannot, at least put it far away enough so that the sound dooesn't hit you in the leg, but actually has the space to travel to your ears
Fantastic idea to demonstrate this in a live band context. Well done folks. The amp tone, before any pedals, is so very crucial. For clean sounds you definitely don't want it too 'thin'. The main culprit can often (not always) be summed up in two words...single coils. Here, a carefully set amp + (often the key) an even more carefully selected pedal (e.g. EQ/Compressor/Overdrive) to push and tone shape the amp front are key, especially for those clean sounds again. Humbuckers don't generally have anywhere near the same battle trying to cut through live for cleans. Weak/thin crunch sounds can also be an issue and again, those same pedal types can help a lot. Note, for this type of correction, we're not trying to distort these sounds (or add more distortion to a distorted sound), unless that's something you're also looking to change. More of this type of video, please.
Great concept kris. Same comparison with other pedals please !!! Pantheon kot some strymon drives maybe revv g series and etc... And if you can show us how they also are heard in a live mix.. like how they are heard by audience through pa systems. This simulation would be priceless
I made this experience with a Marshall JCM900. This amp is always criticised in forums for being edgy and having a very biting sound. It is true if played without a band. In a band context this is for me one of the best Marshalls especially if you play with two guitars. It is cutting through the mix and sounding really nice. For those who want to tame it a little, they should use it with Celestion Lead 80 speakers. Dream sound. There is a big difference between what I call a living room sound and a stage sound within a band.
great video! i often feel so rushed in rehearsals and just do not get the time to tweak my tone - the other guitarist in the band overwhelms me on a consistent basis and I often just can't hear myself. i really want to be only guitar player in the band!
My pedal journey: Level 1: one crazy pedal. My first was a NYC big box muff. A wah or whammy are other great contenders. Level 2: lots of cool pedals that sound great in your bedroom Level 3: a handful of pedals that are actually useful: EQ, tuner, compressor, channel switcher, volume pedal.
I'm not convinced. When you play with a live drum kit and bass and don't properly turn up the guitar, no amount of Boss Pedals will help. In any scenario of this video, the guitar practically disappeared in the room.
This video is great and thank you so much. I went right out and bought an SD-1 because I have this exact problem with my band.. I have a great-sounding transparent overdrive but I feel like I have to crank the volume up so loud just to hear it sometimes. But it works well for quieter songs but what I needed was to be heard on the heavier songs. SD-1 works just like your video. Thanks again.
I think a great example is the Fender Hot Rod. Horrible sound when the volume is low and you're at home. Shrill and thin. In a band at band volume it's a very good amp.
Best all round amp that I ever bought was a ZT Lunch box. (I started in the late 60's early 70's with Vox AC 30's, then Marshall 50 watt head and 4X12 cabinet), many years later I played Roland small amps, but nothing compared to the ZT Lunchbox! (The older model, with 200 watt output through a 6 inch speaker!) Crazy, but I even used it on live outdoor gigs, and it cut through the mix perfectly. Truly the best amp I have ever owned.
Nice video and topic, thank you very much! In this era of modelling and pedalboards a lot of people don't know how to blend with a real band. What you didn't say in your video is that in a rock situation the guitar should be a little louder than the drums in order to be heard properly. But the biggest thing in loudness manipulation isn't just turning a knob or finding the right frequency but years of practise and playing with others, a certain technique and perception that is developed and can not be quantified in "what exactly did you do, what effect etc..." Also, the playing of the other members helps that as well. How they go "under" the guitar when needed or equal it. Rock 'n' roll is otherwise called guitar music and the guitar should lead in presence and attitude. All this equipment is really amazing but mostly to those who already have the experience and know how to make sound and take their place whatever the situation
The guitar is a midrange instrument, period! berst advice I ever got was from Phil X (this is also what EVH did) put an EQ pedal last in your chain and push 250K creating an inverted V shape. You'll instantly go WOW and be heard regardless of your volume level
That's why I put a parametric EQ last in chain and I cut lows below 300 and highs above 4800 Hz. Of course this is not an high order filter, so this means that e.g. 200 Hz and 6 kHz are attenuated but are still there. Now my sound can be heard in the mix without being harsh.
Please consider more live band demonstrations, for everything. It's that setting and using a room mic that reveals the true character of Guitars/Amps/Effects. Also consider not doing any post recording production work on the demonstrated item. Too many reviewers overly compensate the instrumentation audio in their post production to give a polished sound that invariably makes it difficult to hear the true product differentiation.
I only started learning how to play the guitar a little over six weeks ago & I'm documenting my entire journey on here so to this was super interesting to watch!
@@Ottophil So I have a visual diary of the entire journey & so that other adult beginner's can also realise they aren't alone & that it is possible despite our age. I just want to become a proficient little player, not a masterful pro or anything.
It's amazing how many decades had to pass before people started having these conversations. There are essentially three different tones, live band setting, recording and bedroom blasting/solo. They all call for totally different sounds, and of course even within the first two especially , things will vary depending on the song or venue. Anyone who had some idea about playing guitar figured this out for themselves a long time ago. However, it would seem that it has been in commercial interests to not make this info widespread, keeping alive the myth of the "tone quest" with people endlessly searching for that magickal piece of gear or rig that will give them their "perfect tone" in any situation. That simply does not, and cannot, exist.
I understand that this video was about guitar sound, but I never heard Julia's bass. Regarding the different guitar sounds, the overdrive cut through the overall band sound better, but was still lacking punch. I would put the overdrive in front of the blues driver and run both for a more "full" sound. Great video guys and Julia. Thanks.
Thanks so much! We love making these 'band videos' so expect some more coming up in the future. It's such a bliss working in a team full of musicians. I mean the whole camera and audio team is full of drummers, bass, keyboard and even trombone players. 🥰 //Kris
I think you are on to a great concept here. I tire of all the artificial A B comparisons that are done in a completely artificial context. Can you hear a difference between this pot and that pot? Maybe. With good headphones on. And there are no other instruments. As long as everything else is the same (amp, pedals, settings, picks, strings ....). And you do the tests within seconds of each other. But in the real world, that means absolutely nothing. This vid today was actually covering something useful in the real world. I could see a few other follows for real world stuff you might want to consider. Like stage sound and monitoring vs house sound (and how you can screw up house sound with your stage sound). EQ. Looking at guitar and bass (and keys) together in a mic. I'm sure there are lots more. Good job!
Speaker polacement and direction matters HUGELY as well. Midrange is already quite directional, thus unless the center of the speaker isn't aimed directly towards your ears, you most probably will not hear yourself well... and very rarely anyone else hears you either. Drummer has easier time hearing you in this instance because they're in a corner and walls are hard -> they hear your guitar bouncing off from 3 or 4 surfaces and combining, thus they get a huge boost to the åerceived volume. Band spaces are very difficult for this reason. In ear monitoring systems exists because of this reason.
This is very useful. More band situation topic pls. Thanks 1. Difference in tone during jam session vs in a gig. How to channel 2. Sounds good in the studio, but not live. Thanks muchos
Awesome video! More like this, please! Including Bass. Also like to add, that it works WAY better when your own speaker isn't behind you. We used to have the bass amp behind me (on guitar) aiming towards the bass player and the Guitar amp behind the bass player pointing towards me on the guitar. We dropped stage volume (when we wanted to) a lot with this trick. You can physically move yourself OR point the speaker more or less towards yourself for your own mix levels.
While it is true that some pedals affect your guitar's eq like a Tube Screamer which boosts mids, a Blues Driver that is more full range, or the SD1 which is more like the Tube Screamer in that it is also has a strong mid range and bite, implying that your pedal choice will make your guitar audible or not is a ridiculous simplification of what is in reality a very complex sonic event. The actual volume of your amp and how you set it's eq are even bigger factors than pedal X vs pedal Y. A basic rules that you have good strong mids and not too much low end in your guitar sound is a start. As was stated here a good bedroom tone with an electric guitar by itself is indeed a very different thing than a good tone to fit in a band mix. Guitarists when they play alone often enjoy a very scooped sound that has lots more low end than a guitar should really be making along with somewhat recessed mids and a bunch of sparkle on top. This generally isn't a good plan in a band mix. I noticed that what is probably your room mic seems to be in shot over towards the drums and behind and above the bass player. If this is the room mic we are hearing it really isn't proper to give an accurate picture of all the instruments and the sound in this room as it is far too close and almost behind the bass amp and way to the side of the guitar amp. The positioning of the room mic there would help prove your point more than offering a true sound of what is going on in the room as it is going to capture far more drums and less guitar because guitar amps are so beamy and directional. Honestly the biggest sound issue to most bands trying to hear themselves in a practice space situation is too small a room with too low a ceiling and too much volume which results in a ton of bad reflections that just muddles everything.
This was a great reminder and a cool video! Would be great to do a similar exercise with cleaner tones as well please? I feel like I dig in so much harder when playing clean live so I can hear myself but then lose a lot of my dynamics and feel! Could be something about good monitoring mixes as well to be fair.
Thanks man! Yeah clean tones live is a super interesting subject, we'll cover it for sure! I know exactly what you mean with 'I feel like I dig in much harder'. //Kris
I've begun using a tip i heard lately, about using a tubescreamer style pedal as the last gain stage in the board to narrow the sound. I've been struggling heavily with controlling the high end and low end of my guitar in the rehearsal room, but using TS style (actually the Harley benton pedal 😎) I've been able to focus my sound a lot more, leaving only the midrange and dumping the unnecessary frequencies that only muddy up the sound space. Going through a pedal like this, I can get more out of the volume control, being able to go from a fairly clean sound to a lightly overdriven song, which is perfect for our more pop sounding songs or solos. For more dirt I just stack another drive pedal behind it, keeping the focused sound. This way I only need the volume control and switching one drive/distortion pedal on and off to achieve an incredible range of sounds, while filtering the unneeded frequencies at the same time
funny anecdote that illustrates assumptions are inferior to experience and context: during a discussion I wrote, "if you want to be heard more, turn up the midrange," and the reply was, "no, if you want to be heard, turn up the volume"
I learned this the hard way. Not being able to hear myself. The more I went to concerts I realized the guitar basically had no bass and more highs. So I dialed my amp with less bass and more highs. I also started playing more on the bridge pickup and on solos an EQ pedal as a mid/volume boost solved all my problems.
I switched from Marshall to Fender HRD a few years ago. Because the latter is a bit cleaner it cuts through the band mix better, but it's much harder to play rock solos. Something like a blues driver turns it more marshally and a bit more forgiving. I often use a green rhino in front so that gives me a mid range hump. But in general I keep my sound cleaner than I used to so I can be heard.
I’ll add that you also need to play at a particular volume (relatively loud)…Amps and all that will sound much different than when they are turned down. Then, there’s different rooms/venues that will affect pretty much everything (ie room acoustics). It’s a bit of a headache but ya just do the best you can and it’ll get more consistent over time. Or use an amp pedal and go into the PA, the most consistent, which is why many professional guitarists are going that route these days.
This is something I run into all the time when I use other guitars. Only my Telecaster seems to cut through the mix. Also, the more distortion I use, the less I hear. Conversely, when I use my delay or 2 amps in stereo, I blow everyone away and my guitar is all you can hear.
Using the blues driver, the room db meter was in the mid 90s. Using the SD-1 pedal, it was 110. So I'm not surprised you heard it bettter. On my TV, it was definitely more present, but still needed to come up in the mix. The solution to me seems obvious. The bass and drums are too loud. 110db in a room that small is crazy loud. To be fair, the meter is on top of the guitar amp and fairly close to the bass and drums, but still. I hope you all were wearing earplugs. It's not like it was 120db or more, where you'd risk permanent damage, so I doubt the exposure was an issue, but if you do that regularly, it will become an issue.
I was jamming with a bass player the other using my Marshall TSL and a LP. I've used this rig live before with no issue. This day we were using a drum machine I usually practice with through a PA and It was a room I'd never jammed in before. I must have nudged a few of the guitar dials when moving the amp. When I plugged in and started playing it sounded OK but a little fuzzy (I prefer more power tube distortion). Then we started playing and as you've seen, I got lost in the context. The amp is more than enough to get over bass and drums but in this environment needed some tweaking.
This seemed to be more a demonstration of mic'ing/ mixing strategy. Of course a close-mic is going to make the guitar punch harder in the PA than a room mic. To get a true difference of how different guitar tones sit in a mix, it would have been more helpful to have the video recorded through a single-source room mic as the listeners "ear" to the PA mix and then make one change at a time to pedals/ guitar tone.
Well in either case a little more volume was welcome, even with the SD-1 And yes, the upper mids are i portant, but I prefer to cut out the lower mids bc they make it sound muddy As a metal player I have a scooped EQ (Boss ME-80) with the bass as 60%, mids at 35 or 40% and the treble on 75% and on my Harley Benton jambox the mids-heavy JC clean channel sounds so much better than with the scooped clean channel although I do have to push the amp's tone knob to prevent it from getting muddy (in case it matters, my distortion settings (also the Boss ME-80, gain type: core) have a fairly pushed distortion (about 40-45%) and a rather balanced tone (about 45-50%) And the guitars going through that rig are a Harley Benton S-620 modded with a DiMarzio Super 2 and X2N, parallel/series on the volume and tone knob, treble bleed and an extra switch to coil split both; and a heavily modded starter set Squier strat also dubbed the Frankenstrat as it's modded with the Dimarzio Super 2, Chopper and X2N, a treble bleed, having the neck pickup share its tone control with the middle pickup as the other tone control does the bridge pickup, a switch for a 7-way mod (basically engages the bridge pickup regardless of the pickup selector and I even added the bridge tone control to the switch), a switch for parallel/series for each individual pickup and coil split for each individual pickup with push-push pots (push-pull is terrible with the vertical grooves on strat knobs) (maybe make a guitar tech tips video on combining the parallel/series and coil split or on the Frankenstrat concept? 👀) I think the same kinda video would be very useful for bass tho; what (saying this as a metal bassist) is a good EQ setting? How much treble can I keep to keep clarity, but too still have enough low end to pack some punch and how much of the mids can I actually scoop out? I prefer to keep the pedal EQ (Boss ME-50b (shame that no place still sells those) at a heavy low end (about 75-80%), strongly scooped mids (about 20-25%) and rather moderate treble (approx 50-60%) and keep the mid frequency knob a fairly low to have the lower mids scooped out to not make it muddy and let that EQ do all the work as the amp's EQ (Harley Benton HB-20B) flat But what would be recommended? (fyi I use a 5-string P-bass (only modded with treble bleed)) And especially: how much bass distortion is enough to still be clear and still have that nasty tone As of current settings (also the Boss ME-50b, gain type: metal) I have the gain fairly pushed towards 40-50% and the tone knob fairly low (about 20-30%) and then keep the E. (effect, thus the distortion) leven and D. (direct, thus clean) level in pretty much the same position (low gain with a high tone sounds like shit, way too cheesy) and I turn the dstortion on and off according to whether the foundation of the guitar parts is with distortion or clean (I suppose kinda like Lemmy x Steve Harris but with 5 strings lol) But what's ideal while keeping a high gain bass tone? TL;DR: I prefer combining a scooped EQ with a decent amount of distortion on a mid boosted amp (moreso than boosting the mids on a scooped amp) and what EQ and distortion settings are suitable for bass in a band setup?
OMG, this in conjunction with the actually popular floor modler usage… Tweaking at home an insane sounding guitar tone and nothing lefts of it in the rehearsal room… resulting the opinion „Modeling sucks!“
This live band illustrations is what I’ve been looking for for a long time , please ! I need more of this …..
Hello William, I totally agree - this is an informative video not to be seen every day! 👏👏👏
It’s correct that in a band you can “cut through” when you do like Kris showed in the video.
Many pro players here in Europe use a ‘non-sound-destructive’ way by using a Deeflexx System that enhances exactly the missing mid and high frequencies to hear yourself.
If you still cant hear yourself you should tweak your sound because it will provide the best sound for you, the band and FOH tech.
PS: I know that Kris knows this solution too, he talked about Deeflexx in another video on the Thomann channel - they sell it since 1 decade … 👍
This is why amps like the Vox AC30 were so popular. It sounds harsh and midrange by itself. Add the rest of the band and you can still hear it.
So true!
Totally. I particularly love Vox. I have a night train which is a bit more rebellious in terms of tone, but doesn’t matter how it’s placed o always hear my self with the band.
And thats why those awful teles are still around. They just cut through.
My Vox AC15 is so damn loud that I only turn up half way. Definitely Vox sounds very thin and trebly on its own. But in a band it just suddenly became a monster.
@@Jack_Shianit has mid range, but you always can customize your sound. I use it fine always. But I know I can always cut through the mix. Yes. I like my VOX :)
It never ceases to amaze me how many guitarists (bringing "THEIR SOUND" to the stage) fail to realise or even comprehend this notion. Great demo guys!
This is an incredibly useful video, one which really demonstrates in an actual band context why some things work and others not so much. We need MORE vids like this please! Also, spend an episode on the mostly overlooked, most powerful tone-shaping pedal around: the EQ.
Thanks! Yeah, EQ is a good shout, we'll do something with it too. Cheers //Kris
As a drummer, this is a video every guitar player needs to see!
This Video is so important. It shows that it doesn't need the next pedal or guitar or amp, but to know the gear you already own and to know how to make it sound good in any context. There's so much Voodoo about guitar tone around, mostly to rip people off. There are so many variables in the signal chain (Scale, Neckprofile, Strings, Bridge, Nut, Pickups, Guitar Wiring, Cable, Pedals, Amp (Tubes, Wiring, Output....), Speaker, Mic (Model, Position) to name just a few and it is unpredictable, which of these components make a sound work and cut through. Making music is craftsmenship and you get better by taking your gear to the the test over and over again and not by changing it all year round.
I've been a victim of this due to stubbornly sticking with the tone that sounds good on its own and not tweaking it when in a band setting. Thank you for the demonstration.
More band mix stuff please! this is gold! and i am so glad you guys picked this topic, nobody seems to want to talk about how crap all these great pedals sound in the band
Thanks a lot! I agree with everything except for the "crappy pedals" part. 😆 All my favourite guitar players use / used pedals to get their sound, it just really matters what you use and how you match guitar, pedal and amp. Cheers //Kris
There are multiple separate factors at work here, in most live bands. 1. Can you hear well enough to play? 2. Do you want more of you because it’s the best sound for the band? Or just because you want to hear more of you? 3. The best way to bring something up in a mix is to turn everything else down. When each person is in charge of their own amplification, they resist this because of ego. This is why sound engineers love when everyone uses in ear monitoring. You can adjust the house mix for what sounds good, then feed each of the prima Donna musicians way more of their own sound, so they can feel like the star.
I’m not saying there aren’t instances where a harsher, more midrange sound is more appropriate. I’m just saying “I can’t hear myself at all” is rarely the real problem…
I fully agree. That's exactly why my recommendation was to focus on the "right" frequencies for guitar in order to hear yourself enough, instead of just turning the amp up more and more. That's where the chaos begins... when everyone's turning up more and more. A never ending cycle. //Kris
@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses thank you for that response. I agree completely. Rereading my comment, it comes across as critical of the video. That wasn’t my intent; I was just typing stream of consciousness.
It was impressive how much more balanced the band sounded with the "close" mic.
It's always amazing when Julia makes an appearance 💖 And usually it's the guitar that's obnoxiously loud in a band, and the bass and some of the drums get lost in the mix 😂
Same here. As a bass player the guitar player (and especially the drummer!) are too loud.
One exception was a guy with electronic drums.
But this is often why. The eq mix is wrong so they (we :) ) have to turn up to hear....and also to get the drive we want.
Agreed. Anyway, this video was so amazing! What a great backing band for this example.
Forget the guitar sound. That snare sounds great.
Finally a whole band video 😃
More of that please 🙏
Short, simple, direct and outstanding. Great job.
An entire series on setting up for live gigs (with the kit a new band might have) would be amazing. The number of starter band live gigs I've seen with nothing but high end hiss ...
This is awesome! Would be great to see a vid on making 2 guitars work and being able to hear them in a live band context.
Just noticed you already have a video on that, thx again and yes, stupid me
I have to point out that Chris was playing a telecaster which is already famous for cutting through the mix. I imagine it might be even more striking with a strat or a humbucker-equiped guitar.
I found this out playing live for so many years. What sounds good alone rarely works well with a bass (low end), acoustic (top and bottom), keys (everything) and drums (low end and high end cymbals). Frustrating but true.
I have tweaked my sounds for my last CD and recorded as it is. I get on stage with the same setup - even the miking! - and don’t want to change anything to my sound.
Instead I use my Deeflexx Systems and me and the band can hear the guitar sound with all details - simple as that!
I've had this revelation when I used a Klon-Style pedal in band rehearsal. Played alone it sounded very boxy and unpleasant, but in the mix when I got to the solo part and turned it on it was magnificent! Even my bassplayer said it was the best tone he heard from me in a while.
Absolutely! I had the same experience. The Klon style midrange is a super powerful thing when playing with a band. No wonder the Centaur was called the "professional overdrive". It's made for the live musician. //Kris
Totally agree. When I use my Klon-clone, it cuts through the mix so well. Alone, I thought it was a little anemic sounding, but I've certainly changed my tune. Same with my other pedals... I now favor mostly mid-rangy gain pedals
i like so much the "room mics" the drums sound open, the hole band actually!
Really important demonstration for us sound engineers! Shows the importance of EQ’ing on the stage mixer, creating a sonic “hole” for each instrument to be heard in - and of course tailoring the stage monitors to give an appropriate mix to each performer, so they can hear themselves clearly.
As a bass player, I'm not very fond of this sonic hole approach. Because every sound engineer assumes it'll be alright to cut away the definition and just leave the low end in. They don't realize I am also the band's rhythm guitar. No matter how many times I tell them to leave the mids and treble IN they always think they know better. Some quickly fix their mistake. Some don't. Their job is not to create holes; it is to amplify the sound coming off my cabinet goddamnit!
@@ditmarvanbelle1061 oh, I must have been trained differently then. I was trained to leave the bass frequencies alone but pan it one side or the other to create the hole… sorry you’ve had difficulty
Great video - but I would have loved to hear a bit more about what the solution should be (it can't possibly be just use a different pedal, as there is absolutely nothing wrong with either of these pedals) - I'm guessing it is to adjust the EQ on the amp, so would have liked to have seen what effect certain EQ adjustments have on the mix sound in the room vs. how those now sound in the close mic.
The answer here and generally is EQ, have an EQ pedal on your board. Guitar is a midrange instrument and you should try to set your presets with a band or at least a backing track at home. The reason is exactly that when playing alone we fill all frequencies because it sounds better alone, but with a band, low end and high end are covered by bass and drums, so your sound should have less bass and be more focused on mid range, or it will get lost. In terms of guitar another aspect that is important is where the EQ sections are in relation to the distortion sections. Adding bass before or after distortion results in MASSIVELY different tones for example. For tight sounds, you should cut bass BEFORE distortion. You can add later and you l'll have a tight and yet big sound. Distorting a bass heavy sound results in a fuzzy sound, and generally, distorting the low end is the reason fuzzes sound like they do. A Muff for example can sound metal AF if you cut bass before going into it.
@@lucasgoncalvesdefaria7121 I disagree, that blues driver pedal has a LOT of tone that can be added (I own one), in my band I increase the tone on the blues driver until I get the cut through the frequencies I need when all of us are together (trio). Looking at the stills, it looks like his blue pedal is set around 10 o'clock, i would set it to 2 or 3 o'clock and it would definitely cut through then.
When developing the Deeflexx Systems it turned out (again!) that the presence of frequencies in the midrange is the key to hear yourself better - that’s the way our hearing works.
The first step is to increase the mids on the amp, use a EQ pedal in the loop to shape the sound and/or use pedals like Tube Screamer. BUT: All this will change the characteristic of the sound.
Experienced players use a Deeflexx that reflects/deflects those missing mids and highs and your bandmates can hear exact the same sound like you. Players like Marcus Deml, Axel Ritt, Aynsley Lister, Eamonn McCormack do it this way for more than 10 years - they don’t want a change in their sound !
🎸🔊_/😀
PS: You will find A/B tests on my channel like episode “Deeflexx vs Beam Blocker Devices” …
I agree - once you have discovered the effect of a Deeflexx there is no need to tweak the sound with pedals / EQ to hear yourself better.
I can hear myself in any band, no matter if I played with my 3-piece band or together with Jan Akkerman, Joanna Connor or more guitarists on stage.
I just turn my amp (fender blues deluxe ) around so it faces the wall .The sound hits the wall ,spreads out,comes back to me and the audience
It sounds great no-one has said they can’t heat me.
@@jcoxjc27 Hi Jamie ! 😀 Yes I know about this "trick" from my old days in the 80s and later. You can use a piece of cardboard to get nearly the same.
The problem is, that the different travel times of the front and back sound waves cause phase cancellations that change the sound because of the comb filter effect.
It means too, that with different surfaces of the back wall, the sound changes at every venue. That wasn't acceptable for the pro players - they asked for a better solution.
I have explained this in a video about the history of beam blocker devices and show some of these old tricks.
### Deeflexx vs Beam Blocker Devices --- ruclips.net/video/F2EB2k-djpc/видео.htmlsi=2z0SuKgneLWoJu0K
A second video shows even better how phase cancellations can influence the sound of an amp or cab.
### Deeflexx vs sound shields ---ruclips.net/video/sR7LSWO5nAA/видео.htmlsi=MTvjrpSCzEfjqPUh
And I dont think I can convince a James Burton, Eamonn McCormack, Carl Verheyen, Aynsley Lister or Marcus Deml to turn around their amps instead of using Deeflexx Systems ...
If the trick is ok for you - it's ok for me! 👍😀
Kris,
So incredibly thrilled to see you and definitely Julia. She's such a talent. You two would make one hell of a band. You also managed to get away with playing recorded music. Don't get demonetized 😅😂😂
Hey, thanks so much for the kind words! Yeah, it's always a pleasure playing music with Julia and of course with my dude, Lukas on drums. Amazing musicians. We'll see if they block the video because of the songs, hopefully not. 😆 Cheers //Kris
Kris your really an big + for thomann. You guys are doing so well with this content.
The room mic sound really make you feel like watching a live band performance in bar or small venue gigs🤘
04:30 that snare 💪🏼💪🏼🤩
100% 💪 Kudos to our audio magician, Manos!
//Kris
Steve Vai's concert was so nice, his tone was so mid/low-mid rangy and could be heard even though loud drums, and also bass could be heard nicely. I like his pickups for sure.
Vai REALLY knows how to make his tone sit in the mix. An amazing example. //Kris
Ooh oooh black Pia bam ba lam ooh ooh black pia 🤘🏽
Mental!!!! Dude I like those experiments! Thank you all! 🙏
Thanks man, we loved making this so expect some more videos with a band. //Kris
A lot of people are shocked just how loud live drums are, (and Mini-Moogs), so this is why you rely on a sound mixer out in the crowd in a live setting to balance the band across the space.
Great video on a very important and often overlooked topic. The Blues Driver is a great pedal, I mostly use it only for guitar solos, and amp distortion for rhythm playing. Another important thing that didn´t get mentioned in the video: You generally don´t need as much gain/distortion as you think. Of course it depends on the style of music and the band sound but less gain works wonders for cutting through in a band mix.
It's a very simple video (from the content point of view, not effort and production point of view), but a very useful one, as it demonstrates what most of us are inteested in when it comes to comparisons and understanding what works and what doesn't.
Wow, what a difference! This was such a great idea for a video, thanks taking the time to make it.
This is so useful. Yeah, constantly dialling in tones at home that just don't fit in the band mix. Super insightful.
Very nice to see something guitar related focused on a band scenario, thank you for this. As others have said more please :)
Nice! I have two EQ pedals on my board for this reason. a BOSS GE-7 to remove a bit of bass and push forward a mid-heavy sound, and a WMD Utility Parametric EQ for a fuller sound when I don't need to worry about competing for bass player frequencies
This is a great demonstration. I had a similar experience playing clean electric guitar with a grand piano as main instrument. My guitar tone was perfect by itself but it got buried by the piano. Thanks for offering real-world solutions.
This is gold, I ran into the same problem years ago when I used a metal master pedal. By myself it was great but it got lost in a live mix, I ended up using my clean channel with the presence turned up to finish the gig. It wasn't what I wanted to do but it had to be done. Valuable lesson learned.
I understand that you want to sell pedals and stuff, so I get the treble discussion on different pedals. BUT actually, the most important thing in a situation like that is where you put the amp in the room and where you put yourself. If you have the amp near the floor and you stay right in front of it the sound is gonna hit you in the legs, not your ears. The reason the drummer could hear you always is because he is far away from the amp.
So people, try to place your amp in a way that hits everybody's ears in the same way. Bring your amp up on a table or something, or if you cannot, at least put it far away enough so that the sound dooesn't hit you in the leg, but actually has the space to travel to your ears
Fantastic idea to demonstrate this in a live band context. Well done folks.
The amp tone, before any pedals, is so very crucial. For clean sounds you definitely don't want it too 'thin'. The main culprit can often (not always) be summed up in two words...single coils. Here, a carefully set amp + (often the key) an even more carefully selected pedal (e.g. EQ/Compressor/Overdrive) to push and tone shape the amp front are key, especially for those clean sounds again. Humbuckers don't generally have anywhere near the same battle trying to cut through live for cleans. Weak/thin crunch sounds can also be an issue and again, those same pedal types can help a lot. Note, for this type of correction, we're not trying to distort these sounds (or add more distortion to a distorted sound), unless that's something you're also looking to change.
More of this type of video, please.
The Boss SD1 is one of the best pedals ever. I’ve been playing them since 1985. They work so well!
Try the SD3. I am not saying the SD1 is bad but the SD3 is an evolution of the pedal
Great concept kris. Same comparison with other pedals please !!! Pantheon kot some strymon drives maybe revv g series and etc...
And if you can show us how they also are heard in a live mix.. like how they are heard by audience through pa systems. This simulation would be priceless
I made this experience with a Marshall JCM900. This amp is always criticised in forums for being edgy and having a very biting sound. It is true if played without a band. In a band context this is for me one of the best Marshalls especially if you play with two guitars. It is cutting through the mix and sounding really nice. For those who want to tame it a little, they should use it with Celestion Lead 80 speakers. Dream sound. There is a big difference between what I call a living room sound and a stage sound within a band.
great video! i often feel so rushed in rehearsals and just do not get the time to tweak my tone - the other guitarist in the band overwhelms me on a consistent basis and I often just can't hear myself. i really want to be only guitar player in the band!
My pedal journey:
Level 1: one crazy pedal. My first was a NYC big box muff. A wah or whammy are other great contenders.
Level 2: lots of cool pedals that sound great in your bedroom
Level 3: a handful of pedals that are actually useful: EQ, tuner, compressor, channel switcher, volume pedal.
BRILLIANT video. SOOOOO uniquely informative. Thank you!!! Please more videos like this. How about with a strat or les paul and other Pedals, amps?...
Thanks a lot! We are definitely making some more videos with a band. Stay tuned. 🙌 //Kris
This is definitely the best advice every beginners have to know when starting to play in a band. Well done !
I'm not convinced. When you play with a live drum kit and bass and don't properly turn up the guitar, no amount of Boss Pedals will help. In any scenario of this video, the guitar practically disappeared in the room.
Particularly if the drummer is a little enthusiastic,also not many of my rehearsals include mics in use
Yup. In a live band scenario especially your are gonna have to have a loud amp. No amount of tons tweaking can save a 20 watt practice amp 😂
Excellent, excellent! Thank you for this, so instructive, such a good idea for a video!
First time that I've seen Julia play standing up 👍🥰
A real feel video like this is worth more than million backing track examples or gear reviews
Thankyou
Nice. It would be also interesting to hear digital vs. analog setup working in a band.
uhh, awesome idea!! Thanks, noted. 👍 //Kris
Oh darn it,
was hoping for a video about the relative perception of tone.
You know like the guitar tone equivalent of body dysmorphia.
This video is great and thank you so much. I went right out and bought an SD-1 because I have this exact problem with my band.. I have a great-sounding transparent overdrive but I feel like I have to crank the volume up so loud just to hear it sometimes. But it works well for quieter songs but what I needed was to be heard on the heavier songs. SD-1 works just like your video. Thanks again.
I think a great example is the Fender Hot Rod. Horrible sound when the volume is low and you're at home. Shrill and thin. In a band at band volume it's a very good amp.
Best all round amp that I ever bought was a ZT Lunch box. (I started in the late 60's early 70's with Vox AC 30's, then Marshall 50 watt head and 4X12 cabinet), many years later I played Roland small amps, but nothing compared to the ZT Lunchbox! (The older model, with 200 watt output through a 6 inch speaker!) Crazy, but I even used it on live outdoor gigs, and it cut through the mix perfectly. Truly the best amp I have ever owned.
Nice video and topic, thank you very much! In this era of modelling and pedalboards a lot of people don't know how to blend with a real band. What you didn't say in your video is that in a rock situation the guitar should be a little louder than the drums in order to be heard properly. But the biggest thing in loudness manipulation isn't just turning a knob or finding the right frequency but years of practise and playing with others, a certain technique and perception that is developed and can not be quantified in "what exactly did you do, what effect etc..." Also, the playing of the other members helps that as well. How they go "under" the guitar when needed or equal it. Rock 'n' roll is otherwise called guitar music and the guitar should lead in presence and attitude. All this equipment is really amazing but mostly to those who already have the experience and know how to make sound and take their place whatever the situation
The guitar is a midrange instrument, period! berst advice I ever got was from Phil X (this is also what EVH did) put an EQ pedal last in your chain and push 250K creating an inverted V shape. You'll instantly go WOW and be heard regardless of your volume level
That's why I put a parametric EQ last in chain and I cut lows below 300 and highs above 4800 Hz.
Of course this is not an high order filter, so this means that e.g. 200 Hz and 6 kHz are attenuated but are still there.
Now my sound can be heard in the mix without being harsh.
Please consider more live band demonstrations, for everything. It's that setting and using a room mic that reveals the true character of Guitars/Amps/Effects. Also consider not doing any post recording production work on the demonstrated item. Too many reviewers overly compensate the instrumentation audio in their post production to give a polished sound that invariably makes it difficult to hear the true product differentiation.
Well. I'm glad that I chose the SD-1 as my second Overdrive instead the BD. Me first is actually a very versatile Valeton TubeEngine.
I only started learning how to play the guitar a little over six weeks ago & I'm documenting my entire journey on here so to this was super interesting to watch!
Documenting? Why? I spent 20 years in my basement alone first. I suggest that
@@Ottophil So I have a visual diary of the entire journey & so that other adult beginner's can also realise they aren't alone & that it is possible despite our age. I just want to become a proficient little player, not a masterful pro or anything.
Great video! This is very helpful and now I understand.
It's amazing how many decades had to pass before people started having these conversations. There are essentially three different tones, live band setting, recording and bedroom blasting/solo. They all call for totally different sounds, and of course even within the first two especially , things will vary depending on the song or venue.
Anyone who had some idea about playing guitar figured this out for themselves a long time ago. However, it would seem that it has been in commercial interests to not make this info widespread, keeping alive the myth of the "tone quest" with people endlessly searching for that magickal piece of gear or rig that will give them their "perfect tone" in any situation. That simply does not, and cannot, exist.
Fantastic video guys. Very well made. Beautiful room too. Great presentation
I understand that this video was about guitar sound, but I never heard Julia's bass. Regarding the different guitar sounds, the overdrive cut through the overall band sound better, but was still lacking punch. I would put the overdrive in front of the blues driver and run both for a more "full" sound. Great video guys and Julia. Thanks.
Love seeing you guys in action. Great, thanks!
Thanks so much! We love making these 'band videos' so expect some more coming up in the future. It's such a bliss working in a team full of musicians. I mean the whole camera and audio team is full of drummers, bass, keyboard and even trombone players. 🥰 //Kris
I think you are on to a great concept here. I tire of all the artificial A B comparisons that are done in a completely artificial context. Can you hear a difference between this pot and that pot? Maybe. With good headphones on. And there are no other instruments. As long as everything else is the same (amp, pedals, settings, picks, strings ....). And you do the tests within seconds of each other. But in the real world, that means absolutely nothing. This vid today was actually covering something useful in the real world. I could see a few other follows for real world stuff you might want to consider. Like stage sound and monitoring vs house sound (and how you can screw up house sound with your stage sound). EQ. Looking at guitar and bass (and keys) together in a mic. I'm sure there are lots more. Good job!
Excellent demonstration...😊
Love to see You all playing in a live mix, I'm intrigue to see a other video with a Les Paul or an SG
Speaker polacement and direction matters HUGELY as well. Midrange is already quite directional, thus unless the center of the speaker isn't aimed directly towards your ears, you most probably will not hear yourself well... and very rarely anyone else hears you either. Drummer has easier time hearing you in this instance because they're in a corner and walls are hard -> they hear your guitar bouncing off from 3 or 4 surfaces and combining, thus they get a huge boost to the åerceived volume.
Band spaces are very difficult for this reason.
In ear monitoring systems exists because of this reason.
Nice to see a graveyard tee, one of the best bands for a long time
This is very useful. More band situation topic pls. Thanks
1. Difference in tone during jam session vs in a gig. How to channel
2. Sounds good in the studio, but not live.
Thanks muchos
Awesome video! More like this, please!
Including Bass.
Also like to add, that it works WAY better when your own speaker isn't behind you.
We used to have the bass amp behind me (on guitar) aiming towards the bass player and the Guitar amp behind the bass player pointing towards me on the guitar. We dropped stage volume (when we wanted to) a lot with this trick. You can physically move yourself OR point the speaker more or less towards yourself for your own mix levels.
Thanks a lot! Very good point with the amp placement! In a rehearsal room that makes all the difference. 🙌 //Kris
While it is true that some pedals affect your guitar's eq like a Tube Screamer which boosts mids, a Blues Driver that is more full range, or the SD1 which is more like the Tube Screamer in that it is also has a strong mid range and bite, implying that your pedal choice will make your guitar audible or not is a ridiculous simplification of what is in reality a very complex sonic event. The actual volume of your amp and how you set it's eq are even bigger factors than pedal X vs pedal Y. A basic rules that you have good strong mids and not too much low end in your guitar sound is a start. As was stated here a good bedroom tone with an electric guitar by itself is indeed a very different thing than a good tone to fit in a band mix. Guitarists when they play alone often enjoy a very scooped sound that has lots more low end than a guitar should really be making along with somewhat recessed mids and a bunch of sparkle on top. This generally isn't a good plan in a band mix. I noticed that what is probably your room mic seems to be in shot over towards the drums and behind and above the bass player. If this is the room mic we are hearing it really isn't proper to give an accurate picture of all the instruments and the sound in this room as it is far too close and almost behind the bass amp and way to the side of the guitar amp. The positioning of the room mic there would help prove your point more than offering a true sound of what is going on in the room as it is going to capture far more drums and less guitar because guitar amps are so beamy and directional. Honestly the biggest sound issue to most bands trying to hear themselves in a practice space situation is too small a room with too low a ceiling and too much volume which results in a ton of bad reflections that just muddles everything.
This was a great reminder and a cool video! Would be great to do a similar exercise with cleaner tones as well please? I feel like I dig in so much harder when playing clean live so I can hear myself but then lose a lot of my dynamics and feel! Could be something about good monitoring mixes as well to be fair.
Thanks man! Yeah clean tones live is a super interesting subject, we'll cover it for sure! I know exactly what you mean with 'I feel like I dig in much harder'. //Kris
Playing with a drummer with a lighter touch is always nice.
I've begun using a tip i heard lately, about using a tubescreamer style pedal as the last gain stage in the board to narrow the sound.
I've been struggling heavily with controlling the high end and low end of my guitar in the rehearsal room, but using TS style (actually the Harley benton pedal 😎) I've been able to focus my sound a lot more, leaving only the midrange and dumping the unnecessary frequencies that only muddy up the sound space.
Going through a pedal like this, I can get more out of the volume control, being able to go from a fairly clean sound to a lightly overdriven song, which is perfect for our more pop sounding songs or solos. For more dirt I just stack another drive pedal behind it, keeping the focused sound.
This way I only need the volume control and switching one drive/distortion pedal on and off to achieve an incredible range of sounds, while filtering the unneeded frequencies at the same time
Very helpful video. I love the Blues Driver, but while playing with a band, the OCD driver (which sounds way harsher alone) may be the yay to go.
super valuable info - people in bands don't usually have this kind of appreciation of EQ balance - more of a producer/engineer talent!
funny anecdote that illustrates assumptions are inferior to experience and context: during a discussion I wrote, "if you want to be heard more, turn up the midrange," and the reply was, "no, if you want to be heard, turn up the volume"
I learned this the hard way. Not being able to hear myself. The more I went to concerts I realized the guitar basically had no bass and more highs. So I dialed my amp with less bass and more highs. I also started playing more on the bridge pickup and on solos an EQ pedal as a mid/volume boost solved all my problems.
Thank you so much for all of your vids! You tell only right points without unnecessary words! Only Thomann is good enough!😄❤
I switched from Marshall to Fender HRD a few years ago. Because the latter is a bit cleaner it cuts through the band mix better, but it's much harder to play rock solos. Something like a blues driver turns it more marshally and a bit more forgiving. I often use a green rhino in front so that gives me a mid range hump. But in general I keep my sound cleaner than I used to so I can be heard.
Shot out to the great playing! And very useful video, especially for any one starting out with a band.
Great video here, sir! No bullshit. Not even 8 minutes but has everything in it.
Thanks a lot! We wanted the instruments to do the talking, haha! //Kris
Yes, more of this! Maybe one specifically for bass?
wow. great video. i just learned something today
I was waiting for the 3rd sample = stacking the BD and OD 🤘
My constant struggle as a sound engineer with my band mates: the sound they like is not necessarily (and very rarely) the sound they NEED.
A good video series would be guitar gear reviews, split into bedroom practice tones and band mix tones
I’ll add that you also need to play at a particular volume (relatively loud)…Amps and all that will sound much different than when they are turned down.
Then, there’s different rooms/venues that will affect pretty much everything (ie room acoustics). It’s a bit of a headache but ya just do the best you can and it’ll get more consistent over time. Or use an amp pedal and go into the PA, the most consistent, which is why many professional guitarists are going that route these days.
This is something I run into all the time when I use other guitars. Only my Telecaster seems to cut through the mix. Also, the more distortion I use, the less I hear. Conversely, when I use my delay or 2 amps in stereo, I blow everyone away and my guitar is all you can hear.
Using the blues driver, the room db meter was in the mid 90s.
Using the SD-1 pedal, it was 110. So I'm not surprised you heard it bettter. On my TV, it was definitely more present, but still needed to come up in the mix.
The solution to me seems obvious.
The bass and drums are too loud.
110db in a room that small is crazy loud. To be fair, the meter is on top of the guitar amp and fairly close to the bass and drums, but still.
I hope you all were wearing earplugs. It's not like it was 120db or more, where you'd risk permanent damage, so I doubt the exposure was an issue, but if you do that regularly, it will become an issue.
This is such a great example.
I was jamming with a bass player the other using my Marshall TSL and a LP. I've used this rig live before with no issue. This day we were using a drum machine I usually practice with through a PA and It was a room I'd never jammed in before. I must have nudged a few of the guitar dials when moving the amp. When I plugged in and started playing it sounded OK but a little fuzzy (I prefer more power tube distortion). Then we started playing and as you've seen, I got lost in the context. The amp is more than enough to get over bass and drums but in this environment needed some tweaking.
Great useful video for the hobby guitar players
This seemed to be more a demonstration of mic'ing/ mixing strategy. Of course a close-mic is going to make the guitar punch harder in the PA than a room mic.
To get a true difference of how different guitar tones sit in a mix, it would have been more helpful to have the video recorded through a single-source room mic as the listeners "ear" to the PA mix and then make one change at a time to pedals/ guitar tone.
The best guitar tone these days, in my opinion has Vogg from Decapitated.
What a huge sound!!!
Well in either case a little more volume was welcome, even with the SD-1
And yes, the upper mids are i portant, but I prefer to cut out the lower mids bc they make it sound muddy
As a metal player I have a scooped EQ (Boss ME-80) with the bass as 60%, mids at 35 or 40% and the treble on 75% and on my Harley Benton jambox the mids-heavy JC clean channel sounds so much better than with the scooped clean channel although I do have to push the amp's tone knob to prevent it from getting muddy (in case it matters, my distortion settings (also the Boss ME-80, gain type: core) have a fairly pushed distortion (about 40-45%) and a rather balanced tone (about 45-50%)
And the guitars going through that rig are a Harley Benton S-620 modded with a DiMarzio Super 2 and X2N, parallel/series on the volume and tone knob, treble bleed and an extra switch to coil split both; and a heavily modded starter set Squier strat also dubbed the Frankenstrat as it's modded with the Dimarzio Super 2, Chopper and X2N, a treble bleed, having the neck pickup share its tone control with the middle pickup as the other tone control does the bridge pickup, a switch for a 7-way mod (basically engages the bridge pickup regardless of the pickup selector and I even added the bridge tone control to the switch), a switch for parallel/series for each individual pickup and coil split for each individual pickup with push-push pots (push-pull is terrible with the vertical grooves on strat knobs)
(maybe make a guitar tech tips video on combining the parallel/series and coil split or on the Frankenstrat concept? 👀)
I think the same kinda video would be very useful for bass tho; what (saying this as a metal bassist) is a good EQ setting? How much treble can I keep to keep clarity, but too still have enough low end to pack some punch and how much of the mids can I actually scoop out?
I prefer to keep the pedal EQ (Boss ME-50b (shame that no place still sells those) at a heavy low end (about 75-80%), strongly scooped mids (about 20-25%) and rather moderate treble (approx 50-60%) and keep the mid frequency knob a fairly low to have the lower mids scooped out to not make it muddy and let that EQ do all the work as the amp's EQ (Harley Benton HB-20B) flat
But what would be recommended? (fyi I use a 5-string P-bass (only modded with treble bleed))
And especially: how much bass distortion is enough to still be clear and still have that nasty tone
As of current settings (also the Boss ME-50b, gain type: metal) I have the gain fairly pushed towards 40-50% and the tone knob fairly low (about 20-30%) and then keep the E. (effect, thus the distortion) leven and D. (direct, thus clean) level in pretty much the same position (low gain with a high tone sounds like shit, way too cheesy) and I turn the dstortion on and off according to whether the foundation of the guitar parts is with distortion or clean (I suppose kinda like Lemmy x Steve Harris but with 5 strings lol)
But what's ideal while keeping a high gain bass tone?
TL;DR: I prefer combining a scooped EQ with a decent amount of distortion on a mid boosted amp (moreso than boosting the mids on a scooped amp) and what EQ and distortion settings are suitable for bass in a band setup?
OMG, this in conjunction with the actually popular floor modler usage… Tweaking at home an insane sounding guitar tone and nothing lefts of it in the rehearsal room… resulting the opinion „Modeling sucks!“