Are Palestinians the real colonizers?

[@EricMcLuen]

Basing international diplomatic policy on a 3000 year old religious text never did seem like a good idea.

[@RoyGBiv-lc8tv]

Yeah. This is manifest destiny type crap.

[@AAlt-F4]

It's not about religion. Actually all of the founders of Zionism, and most of the early zionists were complete secular.
Zionism is not a religious movement, but a national one. Zionism is about the right of Jews to return for their ancestral homeland and have a self determenetion there (State, or some other sort of power on their homeland).

[@mattyoungblood5720]

The religious aspect is just well placed propoganda. I've had it explained to me by a couple of Jewish folks that zionism is actually antithetical to what the faith teaches.

[@Nick-o-time]

@@AAlt-F4 it is the palestinians ancestral homeland. theyre both descended from caananites. They are the descendents of the ancient isrealis. on top of this it has nothing to do with their ancestral homeland, they looked at multiple other locations before settling on Palestine.

[@neonsamurai4604]

Yeah just ignore the Egyptian artifact. Also where are the Palestinian ancient relics.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

I only have one disagreement Dan. This creator's weaponized ignorance would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous.

[@sketchygetchey8299]

Think of it as gallows humor

[@jmcg9822]

It’s so petty that normally I wouldn’t mention it, but he kinda looks Hitler too…

[@lisaarmstrong3428]

@@jmcg9822that’s the look he is going for. He thinks he looks manly.🤢🤮

[@slickbelge]

Also, f it weren't so accurate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests
The history of Israel is that of an indigenous people taking back their land from a force that invaded 50+ nations.

[@jmcg9822]

​@@slickbelge your racism blinds you. Islam is a faith, not a race. Clearly you either didn’t read the wiki page you yourself linked, didn’t understand it, or took from it only what you chose. The area came under Islamic rule, it did not displace those who were already there, what it did was bring an influx of new genetics and a new religion to an already existing population, which has been occurring there and everywhere else for hundreds of thousands of years.
Did you know that someone can be Arab and be not be Muslim, or someone can be Muslim and not be Arab? Same with Judaism or any other religion. Numerous religions have come and gone in the last tens of thousands of years in that region. The current population of Palestinians are mixed like any population anywhere, but mitochondrial dna shows that their dna has been in that region for tens of thousands of years, they’re more or less the same people that were living there when the land was called Canaan.
Now if you like history so much you should look up and not ignore where and when the Zionist movement started and really got going, Britain and Europe, who started mass immigrations to Palestine through the 1800s to the 1950s. Also don’t skip the horrific part about the Nakba, when the IDF and Israeli militias invaded, murdered, and drove 700,000 Palestinians from their homes.
Regardless of history the whole argument of who was there first is pointless as the original indigenous jews and indigenous Palestinians are genetically more or less identical, and more so “who was there first” is irrelevant as it still doesn’t erase the fact that the Palestinian people were pushed out of their homes, their homes, their lands. If you’re living in Florida or Surrey and someone walks into your house and forces you out of it at gun point your genetic history is irrelevant, it’s still your home and the person stealing it from you is still stealing it from you.
If that still isn’t enough for you here’s one simple true fact about that region of the Arabic peninsula. People have been moving out of Africa through that region for millions of years, humans, human ancestors, and human cousins for millions of years. If we’re going to cling to the ridiculous “I was there first” logic, well then the entire human species has a claim to Palestine/ Israel, the whole area then.

[@user-MrMike]

Goin deep into Religion and history while wearing a 90’s X-Men t-shirt 👍🏻

[@alexanderfloyd5099]

Dan’s t-shirts are legendary.

[@EldestSugar918]

Thank you for continuing to do your work in these complicated affairs, Dan.

[@wasserperson]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@firebyrd437]

The idea that Jewish people who were indigenous and the Arabs aren't from the same ethnic group is just ridiculous. The semitic people, It's important to note that "Semitic" is a linguistic term, referring to a group of languages, including Arabic, Hebrew, and Aramaic, existed together but evolved over time. Many Jewish people never left Palestine, some converted to Islam and Christianity, both ars treated with less worth that the current Jewish population in Israel. The real inhabitants of Palestine, as you have said, were already living there long before colonusation by European Jews started

[@neonsamurai4604]

Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula Jews are from the levant.

[@Clara-eu3mp]

Just to be clear, European Jews come from the same ethnic group as non-European Jews. Obviously that doesn't justify oppressing anyone else, but it's important to recognise that they're part of the same diaspora.

[@jasonsmall5602]

You should look up the definition (and spelling) of colonization

[@clinchleatherwood1012]

@@neonsamurai4604 I wonder where Abraham, the Patriarch of the Hebrews came from? Hmmm....Have you ever looked at a map? You honestly believe the people of the Levant and the Arab peninsula didn't cross paths, interbreed, trade, marry? They just remained independent racial groups for thousands and thousands of years. Yeah.... Makes perfectly stupid sense.

[@ahmedismail6916]

@@neonsamurai4604There was never a large scale Arab migration from Arabia. Up until the 17th century the preexisting languages of the Middle East, whether in Palestine, Syria, Egypt, or Iraq, were still spoken in some areas.

[@ConstantRev]

I had to pause the video to die when Dan said: ‘even the Wikipedia page this creator is citing…’
💀

[@kevinwells9751]

This whole argument is irrelevant even if this guy was right. Ownership of land and sovereignty have nothing to do with whose ancestors lived there the earliest. By his own reckoning this creator should leave the land he currently occupies because his ancestors are not indigenous to it. Not only would white people need to leave the Americas but Anglo Saxon people would also have to leave the UK, white people would have to cede much of the Iberian peninsula to the descendants of the Moors, etc. It's an untenable policy that not even this creator actually believes. It's a talking point that is used to justify the displacement and genocide of Palestinians

[@AaronGeller]

I agree mostly but I disagree that the argument, or part of it, is irrelevant.
It seems the majority of Palestinians have been taught that the Jews are a religious group whose ethnic origins come from Poland and Eastern Europe, essentially that Jews are Europeans. This needs to be refuted because it is being used to exclude Jewish self determination in the land. That being said, I believe that the Arabized people of the land also have a right to self determination as well. Both populations have roots, but I do believe that those who currently identify as Palestinian Arabs are a mix of old families and newcomers in the 1800s and early 1900s.

[@saturnhex9855]

@@AaronGeller I think the point is that while historical accuracy is essential, it still shouldn't support or refute self-determination of a people in the areas they reside. It's all very complicated, and especially with how migratory humans naturally are, clear territory designations can never be made without delving into the problems of indigeneity and revanchism. Even if they didn't have roots, they still have a right to self-determination due to being peoples inhabiting a land/area. That's why it's ultimately irrelevant. Kicking people out of a land is always wrong.

[@AaronGeller]

@@saturnhex9855 The Palestinians are still there so I don't believe they were kicked out. 20% of Israel's population is Arab today.
This argument is important because in the Palestinian narrative, Jews are portrayed as being European colonialists while ignoring the Middle Eastern roots of Jews and that there has been a continuous Jewish presence since antiquity that never left even if they existed as the minority. If one side refuses to recognize the other's right to be there then there won't be peace.

[@BobbyHill26]

⁠@@AaronGellerEuropean Jews moving en masse into the levant are European settler colonists. Do the modern English and Americans have the right to invade Anglia and Saxony, violently forcing out the people that currently live there, putting them into open air prisons and routinely murdering them? If not, then why are European Jews allowed to do so? And my ties to Anglia and Saxony are significantly closer in time than the ties of European Jews to the levant, so my claim is even that much stronger.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@AaronGellerWell said. The framework of settler colonialism is being misapplied whichever side one is taking. I think that even if there was no concept or identity of Palestinian people before the Palestinian Mandate (which WAS a colonial period) there is now a Palestinian people, and they have a right to self determination and self governance equal to that of Israel. They have a right to exist equal to Israel’s right to exist. There can be no peace until there is mutual recognition of these facts.

[@emptyhand777]

The creator should do a little research on the indingeneity of the USA and Canada.

[@sadib100]

I discovered you 10 days ago, and you've quickly become one of my favorite creators. When dealing with someone who believes in biblical events, just asking them if Joshua's Conquest of Canaan was colonialism shuts them up quickly.

[@Nick-o-time]

Thank you! I always feel like I'm going crazy when people act like the Palestinians don't belong there.

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

I think most people who think Palestinians should not be there agree with the fact there were Arabs there. But the very fact they self-identified as Arab and Muslim ☪ meant there was no real reason for them not to move to another Arab and Muslim ☪ heavy region. And thus the complaints have ulterior motives to staying within their homeland.
Especially if the British or Israeli governments moved them through eminent domain.

[@Pan-demic]

⁠@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_CyavanaAhhh yes, because similarities to other people in other nations means these people should be forced out of their homes to go to a foreign land. This is laughably ignorant. There are in fact good reasons for them not to move there. You could use your argument for a multitude of other cases. There’s no reason whites in Africa, according to your logic, to keep staying in Africa as many identify as various European ethnicities and with Christianity. Also, nationalism exists and there are indeed substantial differences between Palestinians and other Arabs of neighboring countries. So you will find no support among Palestinians to all go to other countries; they are attached to this land they have lived in for centuries. Thus, forcing them out would be be yuh know, genocide and ethnic cleaning.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana self-identification under actual colonial rule (the Palestinian Mandate) can be problematic. That said, even if there was no Palestinian people before the Mandate, there is now and they have the right of recognition and self determination, as does the nation of Israel.

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

@@MarcosElMalo2 If people can just make up self-identities whenever it suits them, then the world 🌍 would be chaos.

[@TheAntiburglar]

This creator is spouting such ludicrous misinformation it would be funny if it weren't so absolutely destructive. Thanks for all your hard work, Dan.

[@jrhirsch1]

Can you provide CREDIBLE evidence proving that a substantial number of Palestinians inhabited the land of Israel from 1000 BC to 600 AD?
The names of their Kings? Their capital city? Their unit of currency? Or their religion? Any historical facts at all?
If you're unable then you must accept the fact the Palestinian Arabs are not indigenous and have no right to a separate state in the indigenous lands of the Jewish people!

[@KaiHenningsen]

@@jrhirsch1 That's not how this works.

[@kevinwells9751]

@@jrhirsch1By this reckoning all Americans need to leave the US because we're not indigenous. I agree with the idea that we owe a lot of reparations to the indigenous people that were displaced and genocided but saying that not being indigenous means that you have no right to exist as a state is profoundly silly

[@NoChance18]

@@jrhirsch1 That's not how land rights work at all anywhere else in the world. Even here in Canada, traditional land rights are based on land usage and our treaties with indigenous peoples affirm this. One cannot build private property or displace indigenous peoples from land they are actively using, but they stop having a right to it when they stop using it. And this cuts both ways.
Applying this to Palestine, we can conclude that Israel has no right to kick Palestinians out of their homes (and certainly not on the basis of their ethnicity).

[@jmcg9822]

​@@jrhirsch1 demanding an answer like that is intentional over simplification and intentional ignorance and manipulation of the facts of culture and history.
The area in question was previously known as Canaan, the actual canaanites, not the mythologized version of Judaic myth. Much of what we know of them comes from Egyptian writings, as Egypt was their neighbor and who had much influence and interaction with them and on the general area. Canaan wasn’t so much a unified kingdom as it was more of a population distributed among various tribes with varying cultures to an extent, which had kings as mentioned by the Egyptians but not always mentioned by name. The Amarna letters are a series of correspondences between the pharaoh Akhenaten and his predecessors with various kings of the region, many of which were under the direct governance of Egypt. So if you want a specific name of a specific Canaanite that’s a bit hard as they didn’t have the level societal advancement like the Egyptians and had and were fairly disorganized by comparison, and so left far less legitimate records by comparison, kinda like the original hebrews.
Now if you still want a legitimate name for an actual ruler of Canaan I have a long list of pharaohs I can give you.

[@Outspoken.Humanist]

I know Dan doesn't want anyone going after the creators he comments on but in some cases I think it is right to do so. People like this creator are either dangerously ignorant or they are deliberately evil. Either way, they need to be named and shamed. Of what use is the truth if it is hidden?

[@markcostello5120]

Do you think this particular author was misinformed, dangerously ignorant or deliberately evil? Because that's some very broad strokes of your own there.

[@anettera3460]

@@markcostello5120 the guy dan is responding to here knows enough to know better so either he was fed these talking points and never bothered to look at anything adjacent and never asked any questions, or he knows that what he is doing is intentional misrepresentation of the facts in an effort to defend the genocidal war israel is waging against the palestinian people. anyone who goes out of their way to conflate the state of israel and the jewish people is doing so with an agenda.

[@Outspoken.Humanist]

@@markcostello5120 Granted they are broad strokes but how else would you characterise someone who is spreading lies? He is either doing it by accident, i.e. misinformed, or he is deliberately lying in order to promote his own agenda, which I would call evil.
You are, of course, free to disagree but I would like to learn your view.

[@lde-m8688]

The problem with that is this. When you "go after" this person (or people like him) by posting on their page or whatever, you simply give them more voice. You give them and those like them more opportunity to spread their bile. People on the periphery can look at this as an attack on that creator, and will often side with the creator.
The best way to combat these folk is to help spread Dan's videos. Or to read some of the books and papers that Dan shows for "further reading" and help get those known to more people. Negative attacks on those spreaders of misinformation (that guys video is plainly anti-semetic disguised as some kind of history/archaeology lesson. He uses that as a buffer, or some kind of knowledge 'money laundering scheme' where he attempts to sanitize his bigotry) do more to help them than hurt.
I know this seems counter-intuitive. I am basing this on years of experience as a moderator on a large site. Don't allow these people more voice by giving them more opportunity to speak. Spread the data, not the dogma.

[@Outspoken.Humanist]

​@@lde-m8688 I do fully accept your point. When I spoke about going after people like this, I did not mean abusively but by detailed comments highlighting the facts, just as Dan does.
Whilst I appreciate what you say, it concerns me that Christians who watch this fool's video will believe him if they are not exposed to the truth and if his lies and misinterpretation are not revealed.
It's a moot point but it does rile me.
Thank you for your perspective.

[@thomasrussell4674]

Man, you're honest. You're actually trying to get closer to the truth (whatever that may be) and not just on a mission to uphold your own existing beliefs.

[@Karen-nq8du]

Thank you for this. I came over here from Ben Cremer.... I'm not a historian, biblical or otherwise, and found this conversation very helpful in putting some context to the rhetoric that's falling on my head these days. God help us all.

[@differentdestiny]

Like everyone else, love your content and more scholarly approaches and information need to be out there, "dumbed down" (cuz we're obviously not all as knowledgeable in these areas as you), and more accessible.
Hope you're doing ok, I know you're quite religious and love the region, and what's happening is horrific.

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

Firstly the terms colonizer and indigenous have nothing to do with genetic heritage, they are social science terms describing the relationships of populations relying from the political process of colonization.
Secondly Mizrahi Jews from Palestine and Palestinians genetically extremely close and ancient DNA shows they are equally descended from those that lived there in ancient times. As one might expect that genetic relationship becomes more distant as we look at populations of Jews from further away. Even the Israeli government does not take into account genetics when deciding who has the right of return, it's not how they define who is a Jew.

[@PasteurizedLettuce]

Yeah and that doesn’t work for your argument because Israel was and is developed by colonization, by settlers.

[@Nick-o-time]

But the isrealis are still colonizers.

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

@@PasteurizedLettuce You misunderstand me, within the colonizer/indigenous paradigm Palestinians are the indigenous people and Israeli immigrants are the colonizers. Israel is a classic settler colonial project.

[@PasteurizedLettuce]

@@Matt_The_Hugenot apologies, and agreed, I’m pretty trigger happy in comment sections because the entire world has lost its collective mind lol

[@travcollier]

Arguing that someone's genetic heritage (blood) gives them right to a particular land (soil)... Yeah, I'm never going to think that's a good line of reasoning.

[@lajuanabassett1298]

Very informative. Thank you

[@CorvoFG]

I don’t recall them stealing Israel. More the other way round??

[@jerameesikorski7519]

Thank you for setting the record straight.
Also, the channel Bad Empanada did a recent explanation of what indigenous means that was super insightful.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Too bad that dude's a psychopath and stalker.

[@Nick-o-time]

​@@rainbowkrampusyeah, but he still spits straight facts.

[@Justanothaguy]

@@Nick-o-time Does he? His inability to function like proper adult and his weird tendency to stalk and issue death threats makes me question this.

[@LOwens-xf8yo]

The OT describes in horrid detail how Hebrew soldiers marched into the area and at God’s direction committed genocide on all the inhabitants to claim it for themselves. Doesn’t that make the ancestors of the Jewish faith the OG colonizers? After that it’s kinda moot to point fingers.

[@runawayshay6409]

The OT is not historically accurate. Archaeology does support events described in Exodus.

[@Wandering_desert_guy]

@@runawayshay6409I don’t think thats the point he was making

[@jesus_christ_saves122]

Many buz those people were evil to the eyes of God

[@jesus_christ_saves122]

It's not the same

[@ShinyAvalon]

Check out "Satan's Guide to the Bible" for more details about all that. The Israelite conquest of Canaan was mostly a self-aggrandizing backstory the early Israelites told each other to feel special. There was a bit of a competition among tribes in Canaan to create the most badass backstory to impress the neighbors. The Israelites were another tribe of Canaanites who hapened to win the "best origin story" contest as far as history is concerned.

[@calanm7880]

I’m a proud Scottish Gaelic speaker from a traditional village in the Scottish Outer Hebrides islands 40 mile from the mainland.
My village has an old Viking name, and I have an old Norse surname.
All this combines into my identity & language today: an amalgam of them all, a beautiful unity & sharing of identity, but none which ought to mechanically dictate my identity in the modern day.
I’m neither an original Gael or a Viking: but my accent & pronunciation has those inherited elements which I love.
This also is the beauty of the biblical lands or levant. Archeology & genetics show so much interaction and mingling, that resulting population are not different, but share great commonality & unity

[@andrulemon]

Dan is a great man. Thank you sir

[@DrKippDavis]

God, people like this creator make me so frustrated.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Careful, you know how become illiterate when you're mad.
Wouldn't want that happening again.

[@DrKippDavis]

@@rainbowkrampus admittedly, I am struggling to understand what any of this word-salad means.

[@ozyMalkin]

Thanks, very useful to hear you clarify the misconceptions. I bet the other creator spreading misinformation has thousands more views and that is outright dangerous.

[@garrgravarr]

Love your work Dan. Respect. ❤

[@talkofchrist]

So, let's assume Palestinians are "colonizers" from 1300 years ago and should, therefore, be driven out? What should happen to Europeans who colonized America?

[@Nick-o-time]

We should give the land back

[@talkofchrist]

@@Nick-o-time 👌 I'll do it after you. Where are you moving back to?

[@mycaleb8]

​@@talkofchristProbably Scandinavia.

[@timandmonica]

I get to pick from Germany or Spain. Or depending on how diluted the connection can be, I might stay because I have a little Cherokee in me.

[@TheRenhawk]

I think the point they're trying to make is that they should stop calling Jews in Israel colonizers as well. Many people act like Jews have no claim on the land and are wrongfully displacing Arabs from the region, when in reality, both peoples have long histories in this region.

[@PresidentofAntifa]

On the 6th of February 1948, during a Mapai Party Council, Ben-Gurion responded to a remark from a member of the audience that “we have no land there” [in the hills and mountains west of Jerusalem] by saying: “The war will give us the land. The concepts of “ours” and “not ours” are peace concepts, only, and in war they lose their whole meaning”
(Ben-Gurion, War Diary, Vol. 1, entry dated 6 February 1948. p.211)

[@jaddenmark8583]

thank you. keep up the good work.

[@MissMentats]

That guys moustache is so upsetting

[@bristolrovers27]

Stuck on or real ?

[@Tmanaz480]

He's a Griffin.

[@PresidentofAntifa]

Ben-Gurion wrote in his diary on 12 July 1937: “the compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the projected Jewish State…. We have to stick to this conclusion the same way we grabbed the Balfour Declaration, more than that, the same way we grabbed at Zionism itself.”
(Ben-Gurion, Zichronot [Memoirs], Vol. 4, p. 299)

[@StudentDad-mc3pu]

Excellent and timely video.

[@lnsflare1]

I mean, the entire point of Exodus was that the Hebrew tribes invaded those lands and colonialized it.
Granted, Exodus is a fairy tale that almost certainly never happened and is extremely contradictory to the archeological record, but it's still their own story on what they claim that their ancestors did, which was invade the lands of (other) Canaanite tribes and take them over through genocide and enslavement and then declare it their own

[@BDnevernind]

The argument must be that they mixed genetically with the previous inhabitants, but of course they'll never say this because then they'd have to address what you're referring to. It's inconceivable that anyone should want to claim indigeneity in order to steal land from fellow indigenous people, but the further back you step the more insane the whole thing becomes.

[@jenniferhunter4074]

Imagine if Jewish people who claim this land as their own were to be held accountable for the accounts of Exodus and the invasion and genocide of Canaanites. If Israelis want to use their religious text as some sort of claim, they should be held liable for their ancestors' crimes against humanity. Will the Israelis be so quick to claim inheritance when they might go to prison or be forced to relinquish their inherited stolen goods back to the original people? You know.. like how Jewish people sought to re-claim their property that had been stolen by the Nazis.
We frame WWII as something that was uniquely tragic but it wasn't. Loads of people have suffered and I'd argue, Nazi germany wasn't as bad. Look up Belgian Congo. That's just one example of a crime against humanity. Why aren't we creating movies about that and saying "never again"? Because the victims didn't have white skin? Because the oppressors were from a Christian country and we can't talk about that for reasons?

[@marcioguerr482]

"This is not a conflict that can be resolved through appeals to ancient history in order to establish indigeneity."
You nailed it 👏👏👏👏👏
The issue is deeper. Is a lack of willingness to live peacifully together.
Some neighbor countries just stopped to try to erase Israel.
Now the palestinian antizionist groups must to do the same.

[@ritawing1064]

Very pleased indeed to see this: recent biblical studies should have laid to rest the mythical past of Palestine. Keith Whitelam is an author of reference for the interested.

[@ElloMoto875]

Thank you sir. Just thank you 🙏🏽 truly

[@spinnwebe_]

The creator thumbnail keeps making me think he’s going to make the case that Lizzy rizzed up Baby Gronk

[@JohnDoeHumdrum]

Palestinian DNA is closely related to Levantine Jews and Samaritans. 40% and up to 80% Palestinian DNA is "Jewish", if I understood correctly with other admixture and goes as far back as the Natufian times, around 20,000 years ago just as Levantine Jews and Samaritans(Israelites). They're all Canaanite anyway.

[@PIA-tj5hc]

Thank you for being here Dan the misinformation is dangerous!!

[@Javaman21011]

I really hate these kinds of arguments.. like.. this shit happened 1300 years ago. They lost. You don't get to just come around after all that time and wipe away everyone who's lived there since. Any "ancestral lands argument" from that long ago is absurd.

[@Nessa2Bea]

Thank you 🙏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@RBDawg]

I always figured the Canaanites and Philistines were there before. They wrote a song about it "Joshua fit the battle of Jericho."

[@jeffmacdonald9863]

Generally scholarly consensus these days is that the ancient Hebrews were Canaanites. Probably coming to prominence and founding kingdoms as the area recovered from the Bronze Age collapse.

[@HessianHunter]

Your figuring is right - the stories in the Bible are explicitly about the descendents of Abraham conquering the land from the people already there, who worshipped less powerful gods.
In reality, Hebrews/Israel were part of the same cultural and religious continuum as those neighbors they hated so much. The Levant has always been multicultural, multiethnic, multireligous.

[@johna1427]

Thank you, Dan.

[@soulfaring3285]

I can’t figure out if the perfectly timed facial expressions are intentional or if you’d be a very bad poker player. 😅😂😊

[@greyskeptic3961]

Good PSA Dan!

[@PresidentofAntifa]

Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
- Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.

[@lost_is_history8224]

amazing video

[@476f7474]

Thanks, that was informative. I also love that you kept it political neutral because lately there is this increasing drive to pick a side and to fully condemn the other side. And then to twist everything they hear about the conflict into an argument why their side should win and the other has no reason to exist. I mean, I'm practically the same but for me, it's because my religion is at war with islam and they want to kill all of us, so I won't support enemy combatants in an ongoing battle. It's my way of dealing with the push of islam against people like myself (aka "lgbt") being allowed to live. So, maybe it actually is a bit different because I hate Islam and with muslims, I don't hate them but I just don't support them in any way until they change their stance towards my right to exist with the same rights as a straight man. Israel on the other hand is as safe for lgbt and women as it is for straight men and they're standing against who are to me 2 million enemy combatants because in terms of whether they would kill me for being part of the lgbt, there is no difference between Hamas and other inhabitants of Gaza. It would be unnatural for me try to help a people that wishes me dead as their survival and mine are kind of oppositional without me having a choice about it - as opposed to them. I think for the Israelis, it's similar: Nobody wants to slaughter all of Gaza but also nobody wants to get slaughtered by the people of Gaza. But of course, this is my subjective perspective. I could never be truly objective in a situation where amongst other things, me being murdered is on the table. My survival instinct is strong and logic dictates that the more muslims there are, the higher the chances for them to murder me based on their sharia laws. And again, just logically this means also that every dead muslim increases my chances of survival just a tiny bit. So, my biological imperative of survival stands opposed to that of Islam and just as billions deciding I'm supposed to be killed doesn't negate my right to live, I simply can't see my would-be murderers being killed as loss of human life because I only accept those as humans who do the same for me.
But again: This is an opinion. I don't claim there was any other reason for my stance than me wanting to survive, even if billions will rather die than to coexist with me. I'm German and I've learned at a very young age that democracy is nice but when a group of people decides to murder an individual or an entire minority, that's outside of what can be decided democratically. And I was always told to do anything to oppose such tendencies. I did not expect to be doing that from the position of half the world wishing me dead but it being so doesn't change the principle. But the principle also doesn't change my feelings about the people who suffer and die in this insane and entirely unnecessary war. I'm sad about them having to die and especially the children being killed, it breaks my heart (which was an intense feeling the first few hundred times but by now, it's just part of life). And if you gave me a red button to erase all life from Gaza, i wouldn't hesitate to press that because that's 2 million enemies taken out and I want to end this war for good, ideally within the year because I wanna have a life too eventually. If I had two buttons and one would end this war with no more casualties, I would press that one instead. I don't want my enemies slaughtering my allies but I also don't want for 2 million humans to be killed and forever lost to the world. But the virus of jihadism is spreading and so far, we have found no cure and we also can't lock away all the infected people. It's a situation where you can do something horrific or wait for something even more horrible to come and kill you. And it should also be noted that the civilians in Gaza aren't safe but still fully controlled by a terrorist organisation that uses them as material for their fight. So, their future perspective if they don't die to an israeli airstrike is to be abused and brainwashed by Hamas to eventually become a hamas terrorist who aims to become a martyr. It doesn't really get much worse already and it can be argued that if Israel invades, there is a chance to save a lot of the 2 million people who are otherwise doomed to be enslaved and/or killed by Hamas. And this is still talking about the boys in Gaza who are considered human by their own people. I have no words for what is done to the girls in these societies. But there are things I fear a lot more than death and being female in Gaza (or any other arab country) is pretty high on that list. I'm not saying that makes it okay to kill them all but to pretend that the idf is their biggest issue is just one sided. But again, that is my opinion. Others may believe that death is worse than what happens in Gaza between the Hamas and the rest of the population. And if one believes that, then the casualties amongst the palestinians matter in their perspective and obviously, this changes their opinion. I actually was very critical towards Israel before my coming out led to me experiencing first hand how those muslims can have a nice chat with you while telling you that the only law that matters is sharia and that by sharia law, your very existence is a sin and that they should actually kill you and to them, this is like talking to a thief and saying "I'm actually supposed to tell this to the police (but i won't)". That's what most people don't understand: They're not all hateful but they all believe that feminists and lgbt need to be executed because we are commiting sin by not being heterosexual and/or not being absolutely submissive to the rules of sharia. They can still be nice people and most of them understand that in non muslim countries, they can't lynch people like me but just barely not murdering people because you don't want to take the consequences, that's not even moderation but just strategical thinking. But again, that's my perspective based on my position in life. As I already mentioned, billions actually agree that everyone not living by sharia rule is an abomination. And even more just agree with the goal of killing jews and feminists and lgbt because they also consider us evil. They're entitled to their own opinions. Maybe not to the survival they don't allow others but until we manage to rid the world of the plague they are, I have to accept that they're also humans and have the same rights as I do. And as I already mentioned, I'm willing to erase millions of lives and actually, I would kill just everyone who disagrees with women's rights and lgbt acceptance. I think that would be the majority of humanity and probably it wouldn't be a good idea overall. But to me, there is no way I would spare those who still actively seek to kill everyone of my people if I had that choice. So, while my opinion is extreme, it's still valid - but acting based only on how i see things would be catastrophic. And ignoring how I and a lot of other humans experience this life would also eventually turn catastrophic because at some point, there will be a backlash and the more anger and pain builds up beforehand, the harder the eventual breakthrough of violent aggression escalates. So we need diverse opinions and regardless of where we stand regarding a topic, we all news objective information to improve our respective perspectives and through that also our contribution to the bigger picture.

[@PresidentofAntifa]

“It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” -Ben Gurion

[@g.o.a.t4674]

Source?

[@PresidentofAntifa]

Copy paste the text and google it.
Spoonfeeding fetish?@@g.o.a.t4674

[@GrundyMcCall-1701D]

I would be curious to hear how a group can similtaneously be both colonizers and indigenous to the area supposedly being colonized.
Please do elaborate, because right now i'm rejecting as absurd the idea that a people native to a place can colonize that place.

[@norswil8763]

Palestinians(local Arab, Jewish, Jordanian, etc) are indigenous. Humans migrate, they mix they live for centuries here and there… so, the idea that an American or a German or an anyone with some Jewish decent can come settle land currently occupied by long established indigenous locals is mental. It’s not locals colonising locals, it’s foreign settlers who might only have a fart of a connection to people that lived in the area.

[@beorntwit711]

Also, the concept of colonization applied to Israel is regarding their activity (buying land, refusimg indigenous Arab labor, building separate para-state/state institutions) during the Mandate period (i.e. 20th century). Even if his argument was factually correct, it would be 'decolonizing' from a people who had lived there since the 7th century (though as mentioned, this is false) by violence of the 20th century.

[@PresidentofAntifa]

“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”
David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.

[@tim57243]

We should not punish or credit people for the behavior of their ancestors, so the entire premise being discussed is irrelevant.

[@GrandMaitre-zm3yf]

I don't know if Dan is a believer or not, however, Dan is my go-to for all things religious.

[@J_Z913]

Dan is a Latter Day Saint. If you want to know more about his personal story, I recommend checking out his lengthy interview series with Mormon Stories.

[@jks612]

I'm sure he would take this as a compliment. He strives very hard to present scholarship and only scholarship. And essentially the point is that it doesn't matter. He could be a scientologist for all I care, but if his content stays accurate and dispassionate, then I'll be here to learn. Support the channel! Buy a hoodie!

[@GrandMaitre-zm3yf]

@@J_Z913, thanks.

[@PresidentofAntifa]

12 July 1937, Ben-Gurion entered in his diary: “The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own feet during the days of the First and Second Temple”
- a Galilee free from Arab population.

[@CBusCP]

Cannot find the Joris Explains video. Does anyone know what he's referring to, and possibly have a link? Thanks in advance ❤

[@maklelan]

tiktok.com/@joris_explains/video/7289055366116068640

[@CBusCP]

@@maklelan thanks so much!

[@orangemarley5086]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t many of the modern day Ashkenazi Jews of European descent?

[@PresidentofAntifa]

“If it was permissible to move an Arab from the Galilee to Judea, why it is impossible to move an Arab from Hebron to Transjordan, which is much closer? There are vast expanses of land there and we are over crowded….Even the High Commission agrees to a transfer to Transjordan if we equip the peasants with land and money. If the Peel Commission and the London Government accept, we’ll remove the land problem from the agenda.”

[@Mailrobot]

Its great to see the "alright lets see it" debunking this extremely dangerous essentialist narrative that's so at the core of Zionism or any sort of ultra-nationalism.

[@lurx2024]

So the moral of the story is that trying to establish a historical ethnic claim to the region of Palestine is as easy as a Siamese twin issuing a restraining order to his brother.

[@jmcg9822]

Homo sapiens and other human ancestors as well as human cousins wandered right through the lavant for millions of years as they migrated out of Africa, so if it’s a question of who was there first that deserves that land, well pretty much everyone alive on this planet has a claim then soooo, makes the whole argument rather silly.

[@twelvestitches984]

The genetics are mixed because the Jews did not become a separate race/religion until 4,000 years ago. That's when the Jews, mostly, stopped inter-breeding with others.
While there were others who lived in the area along with the Jews the Jews built Jerusalem, not the "Palestinians" and not the arabs. And the so called "Palestinians" accepted arabization (arab culture) and Islam that was forced on them from the arab invaders who would put them to death if they did not become Muslim.
Classifying Israel as a people doesn't mean they were not a state. I could say that Americans are a people, doesn't mean they don't have a country. Also, there are more Stele that reference Israel.
So, basically, this entire video comes down to this, Gaza was arab a long time ago and still is arab but the arabs are pissed because they conquered Jerusalem 1,300 years ago and then lost it in two wars they started, one in 1948 and again in 1967, and so they want it back because they are great conquerers but this time they lost, to Jews, and they're not happy about that.

[@Deconstruction_Zone]

And who owned the land before Israel stole it? History on the levant didn't start with Israel...

[@Essex626]

Don't Biblical literalists believe that Arabs are descended from Abraham through Ishmael?
So that would make Canaan/Palestine/Israel their birthplace as well.
Of course we don't have to take that literally, but if we consider that people of Jewish ancestry and people of Arab ancestry bother are Semitic peoples with their ancestry in the Levant, the story of them coming from the same father holds a truth.

[@bengreen171]

Dear Dan
I just tried looking up Joris_Explains - and his channel only has 5 videos, all of which are over 3 years old, and none seem to explicitly deal with colonisation.
Am I missing something?

[@maklelan]

Sorry, that's a reference to Joris' TikTok account.

[@bengreen171]

@@maklelan
ah - that would explain it, cheers. Damn though. Should I have known that? Is the word 'Tagging' the relevant giveaway. To me it just means doing graffiti. I think I just failed to keep up with modernity, didn't I.

[@BDnevernind]

​@@bengreen171I think Dan's content starts on TikTok so he may not always think to caveat it for those of us who would not touch the Tok with a 10 foot smartphone lol

[@bengreen171]

@@BDnevernind
'touch the Tok'. I found that unexpectedly amusing and I actually laughed out loud when reading it.
cheers for the clarification.

[@BDnevernind]

@@bengreen171 i aim to entertain

[@PresidentofAntifa]

"They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” --Ben-Gurion

[@Pasture_Prime]

so that literally answered nothing. The fact that people have been all over the ottoman empire
region does not prove or disprove anyone's claim of anything. If a legit claim, where does it start?
If I had land and my ancestors ran because of war come back after years, does it cease being my land?
If so, how far back does it belong to whom?
do I get it back? or the people on it now own it?
What is the historic justification? How have other land disputes resolved?

[@billytheadult6247]

Like Dan said, the type of an issue is not resolved by appeals to historical facts.

[@PresidentofAntifa]

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country." --Ben-Gurion

[@smilefrownupdown]

But didn’t they take the land from canaan 😂

[@AndrewAged]

original link from the creator?

[@PresidentofAntifa]

“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? ‘Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘ Drive them out! ‘ “
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

[@shlomok9731]

Who is the creator being discussed?

[@norswil8763]

Take your pick

[@robertwilliams4682]

X-men the animated series, ya have my respect

[@davidross2004]

I used to think like the subject of this video due to years of religious indoctrination. Hearing how I used to sound makes me 🤢.

[@JudisJajdnd-ru3eb]

I agree that Arabs and Jews share genes. But it's not because the Arabs are descendants of the Canaanites it's because the Canaanites are related to the Arabs you have to remember that these are two peoples who are neighbors to each other the Arabs have traditionally lived in the desert the elephant and the Jews\ the Canaanites have traditionally lived in the coastal areas of the Levant such as Lebanon's central northern Israel and the Syrian coast all the way up to Hatay

[@KenS1267]

Sound balance is your friend. Get some.
That ending swipe implying that Israel is colonial was low class. Don't make claims you aren't willing/able to support.

[@PresidentofAntifa]

Addressing the Mapai Council the following day, Ben-Gurion declared: “From your entry into Jerusalem, through Lifta, Romema… there are no Arabs. One hundred percent Jews. Since Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, it has not been so Jewish. In many Arab neighborhoods in the west one sees not a single Arab. I do not assume that this will change… What had happened in Jerusalem… is likely to happen in many parts of the country …in the six, eight or ten months of the campaign there will certainly be great changes in the composition of the population in the country.”
(Ben-Gurion, War Diary, Vol. 1, entry dated 7 February 1948. p. 210-211)

[@ryanll7312]

If you want to get mad at someone you liked before, ask Dan Vogel how he feels about Palestine and the Palestinians. 😅

[@SciPunk215]

I expect Dan is buried under a pile of hate mail right about now.
Me, I'm just grateful.

[@alexmcd378]

Even taking his claim at face value, it's pretty absurd to call people colonizers because their ancestors won a war over a thousand years ago

[@FlyingFox86]

He seems to put all forms of migration under the umbrella of "colonization", but that's just not what colonization is.

[@JudisJajdnd-ru3eb]

And to be completely honest neighboring peoples can actually colonize each other. For example, I think the Jews have colonized the Arabs and some times because they went into the desert. and the Arabs have colonized the Jews by entering the coast

[@PresidentofAntifa]

“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today - but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan

[@sillyrabbit77]

To apartheid a group, take away their rights and then force them off their land is wrong. If they only been 5 years, it is still wrong, and against international law.

[@Pork_Hunt]

Prima Noctae was not only a practice of Christian Europe but the Ottoman Empire, Muslim lords practicing it in the Balkans and Kurdish Aghas in Kurdistan. So could it not be argued that ethnically Arab populations have matching genetics due to their taking of young Jewish women, just as you would find Roman DNA in the lineages of Jewish women from the period of the First Jewish Revolt raped by Romans and Gauls, just like you would Russian DNA in Jews descended from the Jews of Skvira due to the rape perpetrated by the Denikin army troops?

[@BillyJack85]

People can (and do) argue all day about who was in the land first or for the longest period of time... the issue at hand now is Islam's inherent inability to share the land with the Jews or to stop attacking them.
Unfortunately or fortunately, however you choose to look at it, the Jews are prophesied to occupy this land; and that occupation is prophesied to be a major stumbling block to the world as well as the cause of the wars that are going to lead to the end of the world, so all the attempts at giving or returning the land to Gazans (while probably inevitable) are also completely futile.

[@ts109]

Right cause the Zionists are willing to live alongside the Palestinian people as long as it is not within their borders. Jews and Palestinians have lived side by side in that region for hundreds of years. Its the nationalist Zionists who came into the picture in the late 1800's who decided the land belonged to them and them alone, there was never any intention on their part to share it with anybody. And they used paramilitary terrorist's groups to do it.

[@mickeydecurious]

I am so happy I have nothing to do with that Middle Eastern religion, because I'm from Scott Irish the son Middle Eastern has no DNA in me I have nothing to do with them🤔

[@jeffmacdonald9863]

I love how first it's "Islam's inherent inability to share the land with the Jews" and then literally in the next sentence "Jews are prophesied to occupy this land".

[@BillyJack85]

@@jeffmacdonald9863 I'm not sure what you're loving exactly.
The Jews have a religious claim to the land as well as the manpower to take every last inch of it for themselves, yet they share; the muslims have no religious claim to the land and a complete inability to take or keep any of it by force, yet they absolutely refuse to share under any conditions.
It's not a complicated concept and you'll find very little contradiction in what I said upon further review.

[@BillyJack85]

@@mickeydecurious It's not a coincidence that the 3 biggest religions in the world all come back to this small chunk of land, or that human history continues to swirl around this small group of people known as the Jews. Try as you might, you can't help but be influenced by it. And at the end of the day, you're going to be forced to either accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, or to deny Him. Choose wisely.

[@hardyri]

Just when I think I have found lowest point of human stupid I find this,

[@wildfire384]

when are they just gonna kiss and make up already like we get it jews and Palestinians have been fighting over this land for century's. just make a 2 party agreement were one side can have one half and the other can have the other or just keep fighting till no ones left the rest of the worlds got there own problems to deal with

[@KtKo0t]

What about the EU settlers? are they ethnically Jewish?

[@angreehulk]

🤘

[@soyevquirsefron990]

Is this guy in the America continents as he’s saying this? Maybe don’t open that can of worms.

[@TheySuckFatLongDonkeyLogs]

Thank you for the debunk.

[@GoldenEmperor5Manifest]

Oof Dan I was about to get mad at ya until you brought up that very important study regarding their pretty much equal claim to the region. It's fairly simple, Palestinians were found to have Arabic mixture while Israelis have European mixture but both have essentially even levels of Canaanite DNA making them both indigenous.
The "Colonizer" rhetoric needs to go. It's essentially far left political theory, but it isn't based in reality as people drift the world over through time taking out extant populations and replacing them. Further these folks lost their homeland due to Roman occupation and they had every intent to return at some point regardless. Israelis are not "colonizers" in the sense of being invasive, cruel and malevolent barbarians trying to steal homes from innocent families.
The religious aspect of claims to territory is the broader issue and that's really not something we can just brush away with, "they're meanies and we should shame them". It's going to continue because it has to, one side will have to end up ruling that land. I just don't think a two state solution will ever happen on that soil.

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

It's nice he didn't use the Bible as the Bible describes colonization by the soon to he Jewish people after their exodus from Egypt.

[@K.A.T.W.M]

I don’t understand how the entire area could be brown people except for this one spot in the center full of white people. How does that happen naturally?

[@g.o.a.t4674]

4:08, there was no concept of State back in BCE. Are you being ignorent bro?
4:20, provide the data

[@jefriv]

Thanks, Dan, for opposing propaganda with evidence.

[@PresidentofAntifa]

Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.”

[@aubreypressley1450]

It is such a strange thing to speak of de-colonization when it comes to the modern day state of Israel. It seems to deliberately ignore the messy establishment of Israel in the 40's. And there's a very dark strain of genetic supremacy running through this which is just gross.

[@enriquegarcia2612]

The real colonizers were assirian, persians, greek, romans, these are the last and contemporary ones of a long list.

[@chables74]

Algormancy!