Nice review man. This stick has definatly got my attention with all the switches and buttons for flaps spoilers etc etc. And the stick being force sensing the fling would be greater precision because of muscle memory implementation especially with demo fling teams. Again great vid but really looking forward to your indepth review.
@drekw2 The point is the F16 stick was originally designed to not move, only after testing did they realize only 1/8" was comfortable for pilots and gave the appropriate amount of feedback, Im not certain but im pretty sure the F22 is this way as well
I do save for what I want, I don't buy everything on credit (I don't even have a credit card) and I am happy. I have a Saitek X52, I've had it for years, got it for Christmas one year. Other than that, I have paid for all of my stuff (debit, mind you), other than my computer itself (Birthday) and I'm about to replace my processor and motherboard anyway. Planning on a i7 2600K and I'm going to overclock it. :D
the durability is fantastic i have moved twice and dropped it more than i would like to admit. never has failed. I even sliced thru the main usb cable with a razor wooops. and just soldered them back together no issues whatsoever
They're long and permanent cables. I have one. I and a lot of people have had issues with interference, causing flutter in the twist axis, centering problems, and intermittent buttons. Put ferrites on the cables, especially the end that goes into the stick, and 99% of this goes away. This is 14bit over USB 2. I've seen 10bit MIDI controllers that would malfunction without ferrites on the cable. The X65f is even more in need of them. 1 large ring and wrap that cable around or several small ones.
8-way hats can be useful because you can use one 8-way hat as three 2-way switches. Example: NW: Radar azimuth increase N: Radar range increase NE: Radar elevation increase W: none Center: none E: none SW: Radar azimuth increase S: Radar range decrease SE: Radar elevation decrease Think of it as a stick shift - you can move the hat to the unprogrammed E/W positions and adjust up or down.
Great video mate you have done well in giving me some idea weather to buy this joystick or the HOTAS A10 and I have decided what to buy as a result of your demonstration. thank you. Once again nice one. Take care.
That's quite interesting actually. There's only a single differential data pair in usb. Any issues with data corruption that would cause irregular activity should affect every single operation of the device. But I'm not actually 100% sure the different usb transfer-modes use error detection or correction. And no, I don't own one, I just happen to be a professional software engineer and have a hobby in electronics (and some formal training).
Looks nice. I have had 2 x52pro and wasn't satisfied with the quality of the stick at all. I'll buy this stick and this is going to be saitek's last chance given by me. Pity there's no action shown on this vid. Good review.
I didn't have other devices on. Most USB cables for 14-bit computer joysticks and USB/MIDI controllers do have ferrites. It's a simple, cheap solution. The cables should have had them in the first place. I talked to the head of TDK's devision that does this stuff. He was surprised a USB cable permanently into something like this would not have one. USB 2.0 is frought with interferrance problems and being a high res USB device with this many axis coexisting pretty much guaruntees it without them.
@icefire001 - Key to note... they still move, although not far. Pressure sticks are a bummer. (As a note... especially disappointing if we're talking about formation flying.)
Less moving parts, less stuff that can break... which is a good thing. But force sensing sticks need u to be very crisp and precise with your input. Not doing so will bleed ur inputs into other axes.
Its called saving for what you want, not buying everything on credit because I "want it" you get by with what you have and be happy... besides, I did not show my real monitor, for ease of filming. that was my side monitor that i use for reference and charts for FSX. I fly with either a 55 inch LCD TV, or Projector depending on what im doing.
@drekw2 For those kinds of planes, you should use a yoke. A yoke looks somewhat like a steering wheel (ONLY SOMEWHAT!) but also let you control the pitch of the aircraft by pulling them back and forth.
@drekw2 That's where you are wrong, most (if not all) modern fighters have pressure sensative control sticks instead of long axis moving control collums except for center controll (ie: F/A-18...ect.). The F-16 controll moves about 1/2 inch in either direction which really dosen't do much for flight controll computer, but it relies more on the pressure applied to the stick by the pilot.
@drekw2 when you are puling hi g turns and stuff like that, you need some thing to grab on, and the stick beeing fixed allows you to mantain your hands on the stick and throttle, thants why is called HOTAS
What's with the facination with ferrite beads? USB uses differential signal pairs and is quite resistant to noise. It's also possible that the cabling in the device has a ferrite bead for the usb cable, or the circuitry itself has high frequency noise filtering. The only devices I've seen using ferrite beads on USB cables have been meant for use with prototypes.
the stick of the F16 as well as the stick of the F22 do not move, it sounds weird but it's a lot easier to handle the aircraft if you perform high G turns
@GreatRedTiger You're kidding, really? Man that makes me relieved I didn't get the pro. I will probably end up getting the X65, I seriously hope it's more reliable considering how expensive it is. Which stick do you have now?
@drekw2 Stationary sticks require less effort and give superior feedback to pilots. The stick only moves to indicate the locked positions of the sub components.
@icefire001 Ah! I didn't know that the F16 and the F22 used fixed sticks. It's a little bit strange, I mean lead an airplane with a stick that doesn't move is a kind of weird. By the way, for normal airplanes like Boeings and Airbus, which stick do you recommend?
I am a fan of force feedback joystick. How will this work in windows 8 64bit and etch Elite dangerous and star citizen and newer flight sims today, 2015?
Matt Schuette I need this stick. It's on my wich list. Someone want to sell their stick, or is there some good places to purchase it? I live in Norway, so it would be best if some one in my country have one to sell. But if not, I just need this stick.
Thanks for your video icefire. Actually I´m in doubt about which controller should I buy. X65F, X52 or Yoke for Flight Simulator X. Really hard to decide.... Anyway, thanks again for your tutorial. Cheers
Obviously not the way the X65F has it implemented w/ non-removable cables. Do you own one? Are you aware of how many of us have had axis problems with them? Ferrites resolved this issue, that's why "the fascination". If the only USB cables you've ever seen with them were prototypes, you need more experience with >10bit resolution gear. I have two dj controllers, one audio interface, and a game pad that all came with ferrites. One dj controller and the audio interface glitch up otherwise.
hi MATT , how are you? :I hope you are well. I have saitek x 65 f stick and throttle equipment. but I have 2 problems. 1) radar cursor is not working 2) R buton ( missile buton) is normaly working at joysitick windows but not working at BMS falcon 4.36 have you a saitek x65 f driver program for windows 11 and a good profile file. thanks for support . best regards.
X52 is not high resolution as the X65F. It and the pro use replaceable cable between the throttle and stick. It's permanently attached on the X65F, so you cannot use a better cable. Nature of the force sensing electronics seems to make it more susceptible to creating an antenna with the cable that goes into the stick. Widespread issue that Saitek should have addressed. G940 suffers EMI on USB and pot jitter, so Logitech adds redundancy by hysteresis, which causes worse problems ferrites wouldn't
@spritezero1976 Just don't get the cheaper model of the X52, it's pretty but VERY flakey and pretty loosey goosey. The Hall sensors went in mine in very short order.
p3d v3 force me to use profiler(with no one no work ministick) so i think start time to use some profiles, but i found only for rhino and for cyborg, but can see nothing about fsx x65 profile:(
Where are there no ferrites on the ps/2 cable between the stick and throttle? It doesn't even seem well shielded. Even the Xbox controller has a ferrite on it.
Does anyone here know if Saitek is still providing driver support for this controller? I'm interested in it, but my X52 Pro simply will not install in my newly built pc (it installed no problem in my last build).
Didnt mean to offend, just pisses me off when people diss what other people are happy with using.. so what if i would happen to chose to fly with a 20" non widescreen monitor. it served me well for a long time..
@VanguardDragon No, unfortunately, im not kidding. Saitex X52Pro, i owned 2 brand new bought. First lasted 2 years of intensive use, with first problems in accuracy and control's smoothness started after 2 months. Last year i bought new one, again x52pro, mostly because i got use to the hotas and buttons...this one became unprecious after 4 months, but completely. Twist rudder control is (upon my opinion) what is not good solution...those sliders inside...not good quality and engineered...
sure why not, shielding is unnecessary for such a short cable unless you have some real issues going on.. such as a high powered radio station nearby, high voltage power lines (unlikely). or some guy with an overpowered HAM radio nearby. and with a 2-3' peice of cabling its not necessary.. Now if your one of these people that want to pay 100 bucks for a Monster brand HDMI cable for your television... theres no hope at that point. theres no convincing someone like that =)
+Keihryon Yes. I can report today that mine is still working. It has survived multiple drops, cut cord, 3 moves and is still fully functional and as precise as the day I bought it. The only contenders to this quality are the Thrustmaster Cougar and the Thrustmaster Warthog. In my judgement they are all extremely well built well thought out and awesome.
+Molochkai I can't speak for him, but higher aspect ratio allows nearly the same horisontal field of view, with a much larger vertical field of view without noticable fish eye distortion. *All* HMDs intended for VR are ~1:1 (actually slightly tallscreen like 9:10), because maxing out vertical field of view is more important than the last little bit of peripheral vision. The overlap between the eyes is not complete, which gives a feel closer to 4:3. A little bit of history: 4:3 exists because CRTs are easiest to make in aspect ratios close to 1:1 and passive media would rather have a slightly wider view; you can always finagle the camera angles so that all the action occurs on the horizontal axis and you don't waste film shooting sky and ground. Field of view isn't too important in news reporting, drama 21:9 came into existance to annoy TV users and make them watch movies in the cinema instead as well as a cost cutting measure (it was easier to make screens wider and that allows you to fit more people in). IMAX is intend to be immersive, and therefor uses a more squarish 1.43:1 (inbetween 4:3 and 16:10). 16:9 is a terrible compromise that allows a TV set to display 4:3 with black bars on the sides or 21:9 with black bars on top and bottom. 16:9 has been standard for so long that most new made-for-TV contant is 16:9. PC monitors are 16:9 because of economies of scale, not because 16:9 is good. With 4:3 content quite irrelevant on TVs today; manufacturers are starting to make 21:9 TVs.
+Molochkai Because it was almost 6 years ago, my wife (at the time) had bought it for me. Ever try to complain about a present your wife gives ya ? Besides I had an HD projector for my main screen, the 4:3 was a secondary monitor for chat etc.
@VanguardDragon So, if somebody ask me for that stick I say and state with full responsibility: Saitek X52Pro IS CRAP and money payed for it is worthlessly thrown. Nowdays I do not play, but will try get this new x65f.
@VanguardDragon x52pro...i wasted 2 units in 5 years: it was your luck you couldn't afford it: you saved your money. Stick is SHIT in any meaning of that word.
thumbs up for the wallpaper alone ! :)
Nice review man. This stick has definatly got my attention with all the switches and buttons for flaps spoilers etc etc. And the stick being force sensing the fling would be greater precision because of muscle memory implementation especially with demo fling teams. Again great vid but really looking forward to your indepth review.
@drekw2 The point is the F16 stick was originally designed to not move, only after testing did they realize only 1/8" was comfortable for pilots and gave the appropriate amount of feedback, Im not certain but im pretty sure the F22 is this way as well
I do save for what I want, I don't buy everything on credit (I don't even have a credit card) and I am happy. I have a Saitek X52, I've had it for years, got it for Christmas one year. Other than that, I have paid for all of my stuff (debit, mind you), other than my computer itself (Birthday) and I'm about to replace my processor and motherboard anyway. Planning on a i7 2600K and I'm going to overclock it. :D
the durability is fantastic i have moved twice and dropped it more than i would like to admit. never has failed. I even sliced thru the main usb cable with a razor wooops. and just soldered them back together no issues whatsoever
They're long and permanent cables. I have one. I and a lot of people have had issues with interference, causing flutter in the twist axis, centering problems, and intermittent buttons. Put ferrites on the cables, especially the end that goes into the stick, and 99% of this goes away. This is 14bit over USB 2. I've seen 10bit MIDI controllers that would malfunction without ferrites on the cable. The X65f is even more in need of them. 1 large ring and wrap that cable around or several small ones.
8-way hats can be useful because you can use one 8-way hat as three 2-way switches.
Example:
NW: Radar azimuth increase N: Radar range increase NE: Radar elevation increase
W: none Center: none E: none
SW: Radar azimuth increase S: Radar range decrease SE: Radar elevation decrease
Think of it as a stick shift - you can move the hat to the unprogrammed E/W positions and adjust up or down.
Awesome review! Thank you sir! I just bought a second hand one and I'm pretty excited for it! Cheers!
2 months later...how's it working? I'm looking at one to buy.
the more you use it the more you will love
Great video mate you have done well in giving me some idea weather to buy this joystick or the HOTAS A10 and I have decided what to buy as a result of your demonstration. thank you.
Once again nice one. Take care.
That's quite interesting actually. There's only a single differential data pair in usb. Any issues with data corruption that would cause irregular activity should affect every single operation of the device. But I'm not actually 100% sure the different usb transfer-modes use error detection or correction.
And no, I don't own one, I just happen to be a professional software engineer and have a hobby in electronics (and some formal training).
Looks nice. I have had 2 x52pro and wasn't satisfied with the quality of the stick at all. I'll buy this stick and this is going to be saitek's last chance given by me. Pity there's no action shown on this vid. Good review.
Agree about the LEDs on the X52, but you can turn them down / off in the control panel.
I didn't have other devices on. Most USB cables for 14-bit computer joysticks and USB/MIDI controllers do have ferrites. It's a simple, cheap solution. The cables should have had them in the first place. I talked to the head of TDK's devision that does this stuff. He was surprised a USB cable permanently into something like this would not have one. USB 2.0 is frought with interferrance problems and being a high res USB device with this many axis coexisting pretty much guaruntees it without them.
hey ice great video man.
that thing looks awesome.
Ferrite choke cores work on it to drastically reduce interference, particularly with the twist axis.
@icefire001 - Key to note... they still move, although not far. Pressure sticks are a bummer. (As a note... especially disappointing if we're talking about formation flying.)
Less moving parts, less stuff that can break... which is a good thing. But force sensing sticks need u to be very crisp and precise with your input. Not doing so will bleed ur inputs into other axes.
Its called saving for what you want, not buying everything on credit because I "want it" you get by with what you have and be happy... besides, I did not show my real monitor, for ease of filming. that was my side monitor that i use for reference and charts for FSX.
I fly with either a 55 inch LCD TV, or Projector depending on what im doing.
@drekw2 For those kinds of planes, you should use a yoke. A yoke looks somewhat like a steering wheel (ONLY SOMEWHAT!) but also let you control the pitch of the aircraft by pulling them back and forth.
@drekw2 That's where you are wrong, most (if not all) modern fighters have pressure sensative control sticks instead of long axis moving control collums except for center controll (ie: F/A-18...ect.). The F-16 controll moves about 1/2 inch in either direction which really dosen't do much for flight controll computer, but it relies more on the pressure applied to the stick by the pilot.
@drekw2 when you are puling hi g turns and stuff like that, you need some thing to grab on, and the stick beeing fixed allows you to mantain your hands on the stick and throttle, thants why is called HOTAS
What's with the facination with ferrite beads? USB uses differential signal pairs and is quite resistant to noise. It's also possible that the cabling in the device has a ferrite bead for the usb cable, or the circuitry itself has high frequency noise filtering.
The only devices I've seen using ferrite beads on USB cables have been meant for use with prototypes.
the stick of the F16 as well as the stick of the F22 do not move, it sounds weird but it's a lot easier to handle the aircraft if you perform high G turns
5 stars for the wallpaper alone :D
Carlos, funciona perfecto. El sistema operativo es indiferente, siempre y cuando estén los drivers compatibles. En este caso lo están para Win 8.
Nice review.
A new updated variant of this hotas is in the works in collaboration with Star Citizen. I don't know the release date or price point though.
@GreatRedTiger You're kidding, really? Man that makes me relieved I didn't get the pro. I will probably end up getting the X65, I seriously hope it's more reliable considering how expensive it is. Which stick do you have now?
Nice vid, thank you.
@drekw2
Stationary sticks require less effort and give superior feedback to pilots. The stick only moves to indicate the locked positions of the sub components.
@icefire001 Ah! I didn't know that the F16 and the F22 used fixed sticks. It's a little bit strange, I mean lead an airplane with a stick that doesn't move is a kind of weird.
By the way, for normal airplanes like Boeings and Airbus, which stick do you recommend?
@drekw2 Both the F22 and F35 have a fixed force-sensing flight stick.
@drekw2 maybe to force ppl to use trims or to cut the g load if you gloc at home
we-want-more! ;-)
I am a fan of force feedback joystick.
How will this work in windows 8 64bit and etch Elite dangerous and star citizen and newer flight sims today, 2015?
Works just as well today as it did when I made the video. 8.1 64 bit any flightsim i throw at it.
Still the best stick i ever had.
Matt Schuette I need this stick. It's on my wich list. Someone want to sell their stick, or is there some good places to purchase it? I live in Norway, so it would be best if some one in my country have one to sell. But if not, I just need this stick.
@13knifethrower13 The Saitek X52 was the stick i was talking about. The pro version might be better but i couldn't afford it.
Thanks for your video icefire. Actually I´m in doubt about which controller should I buy. X65F, X52 or Yoke for Flight Simulator X. Really hard to decide.... Anyway, thanks again for your tutorial.
Cheers
Whatd u end up buying? 12 years later
Obviously not the way the X65F has it implemented w/ non-removable cables. Do you own one? Are you aware of how many of us have had axis problems with them? Ferrites resolved this issue, that's why "the fascination". If the only USB cables you've ever seen with them were prototypes, you need more experience with >10bit resolution gear. I have two dj controllers, one audio interface, and a game pad that all came with ferrites. One dj controller and the audio interface glitch up otherwise.
hi MATT , how are you? :I hope you are well. I have saitek x 65 f stick and throttle equipment. but I have 2 problems.
1) radar cursor is not working
2) R buton ( missile buton) is normaly working at joysitick windows but not working at BMS falcon 4.36
have you a saitek x65 f driver program for windows 11 and a good profile file.
thanks for support . best regards.
Was that limewire on your desktop?!
X52 is not high resolution as the X65F. It and the pro use replaceable cable between the throttle and stick. It's permanently attached on the X65F, so you cannot use a better cable. Nature of the force sensing electronics seems to make it more susceptible to creating an antenna with the cable that goes into the stick. Widespread issue that Saitek should have addressed. G940 suffers EMI on USB and pot jitter, so Logitech adds redundancy by hysteresis, which causes worse problems ferrites wouldn't
@spritezero1976 Just don't get the cheaper model of the X52, it's pretty but VERY flakey and pretty loosey goosey. The Hall sensors went in mine in very short order.
p3d v3 force me to use profiler(with no one no work ministick) so i think start time to use some profiles, but i found only for rhino and for cyborg, but can see nothing about fsx x65 profile:(
@drekw2
The SAAB JAS 39 Gripen(Griffin) has a rigid stick, so it's not unplausable.
But for a WW2 simulator, I'd rather go with a FFB stick.
Where are there no ferrites on the ps/2 cable between the stick and throttle? It doesn't even seem well shielded. Even the Xbox controller has a ferrite on it.
does this work with xbox as well? just for the hell of it that would be a nice bonus to be able to use if while playing BF3 also.
Wish I could afford it!
Does anyone here know if Saitek is still providing driver support for this controller? I'm interested in it, but my X52 Pro simply will not install in my newly built pc (it installed no problem in my last build).
Icefire001 do you still use the x65f and if so what's your review after a year's use send a video responce cause I'm considering buying one.
Didnt mean to offend, just pisses me off when people diss what other people are happy with using.. so what if i would happen to chose to fly with a 20" non widescreen monitor. it served me well for a long time..
@VanguardDragon No, unfortunately, im not kidding. Saitex X52Pro, i owned 2 brand new bought. First lasted 2 years of intensive use, with first problems in accuracy and control's smoothness started after 2 months. Last year i bought new one, again x52pro, mostly because i got use to the hotas and buttons...this one became unprecious after 4 months, but completely. Twist rudder control is (upon my opinion) what is not good solution...those sliders inside...not good quality and engineered...
how com it wont let me play like i download the demo but nothing happens
?
Just Saw The Thing at BestBuy, it Looked Like The Dashboard of The Tumbler or KITT, The Stick is Plain Stiff.
m8, would you tell us your general impression, please: precision?
One one more question... any driver issues with win 7 or vista? The old x52pro drivers give me blue screens cos of driver issues.
the tiny screen was my 2nd monitor i had a projector that i flew with
Have you tried this with IL-2?
Is it for sale?
sure why not, shielding is unnecessary for such a short cable unless you have some real issues going on.. such as a high powered radio station nearby, high voltage power lines (unlikely). or some guy with an overpowered HAM radio nearby. and with a 2-3' peice of cabling its not necessary..
Now if your one of these people that want to pay 100 bucks for a Monster brand HDMI cable for your television... theres no hope at that point. theres no convincing someone like that =)
Part 2 of my 4 Part video series on the X65F???/
A shame they discontinued this hotas. :(
+Keihryon Yes. I can report today that mine is still working. It has survived multiple drops, cut cord, 3 moves and is still fully functional and as precise as the day I bought it. The only contenders to this quality are the Thrustmaster Cougar and the Thrustmaster Warthog. In my judgement they are all extremely well built well thought out and awesome.
What is the reason you are using a 4:3 screen?
+Molochkai I can't speak for him, but higher aspect ratio allows nearly the same horisontal field of view, with a much larger vertical field of view without noticable fish eye distortion. *All* HMDs intended for VR are ~1:1 (actually slightly tallscreen like 9:10), because maxing out vertical field of view is more important than the last little bit of peripheral vision. The overlap between the eyes is not complete, which gives a feel closer to 4:3.
A little bit of history:
4:3 exists because CRTs are easiest to make in aspect ratios close to 1:1 and passive media would rather have a slightly wider view; you can always finagle the camera angles so that all the action occurs on the horizontal axis and you don't waste film shooting sky and ground. Field of view isn't too important in news reporting, drama
21:9 came into existance to annoy TV users and make them watch movies in the cinema instead as well as a cost cutting measure (it was easier to make screens wider and that allows you to fit more people in).
IMAX is intend to be immersive, and therefor uses a more squarish 1.43:1 (inbetween 4:3 and 16:10).
16:9 is a terrible compromise that allows a TV set to display 4:3 with black bars on the sides or 21:9 with black bars on top and bottom. 16:9 has been standard for so long that most new made-for-TV contant is 16:9. PC monitors are 16:9 because of economies of scale, not because 16:9 is good.
With 4:3 content quite irrelevant on TVs today; manufacturers are starting to make 21:9 TVs.
+Molochkai Because it was almost 6 years ago, my wife (at the time) had bought it for me. Ever try to complain about a present your wife gives ya ? Besides I had an HD projector for my main screen, the 4:3 was a secondary monitor for chat etc.
@BDBK666 Throttle plugs into the stick
Can anyone tell me if the throttle and stick are both separate usb plugs (and able to work separately) or does the throttle plug into the stick?
@drekw2 in f-16 it only move a little click
quisiera saber que tal funciona con windows 8
@VanguardDragon So, if somebody ask me for that stick I say and state with full responsibility: Saitek X52Pro IS CRAP and money payed for it is worthlessly thrown.
Nowdays I do not play, but will try get this new x65f.
@VanguardDragon x52pro...i wasted 2 units in 5 years: it was your luck you couldn't afford it: you saved your money. Stick is SHIT in any meaning of that word.
@icefire001 Thanks.
What the point to make a stick that doesn't move? it's not realistic..
@13knifethrower13 It is ridiculously expensive..
My first impression of your first impression is .... get a tripod :)
lol i have that exact keyboard merc stealth by steel series good board
@icefire001 all most all modern fighters has a non moving stick;)
mayhaps a tripod. I like the content but it is VERY shaky.
lol, I bought one of those damned cables
I still prefer the X52 Pro...
UHUHUH
You need a better monitor before you need a $400 dollar joystick.
@SamuelChung94 i have X52 Pro too but i think it's better than this
And a better headset. I used to use one of those, and it's utter shit.
stopped watching after all the coughing, pick a better time to maker a clip man.
Is this Sheldon from the Big Bang?
@@AutoAuctionAustin Bazinga!
Ahem...blah blah ahem, *cough* ahhhemm..uhhhh..blah AHEM!
Well, uhhh, despite best efforts, uhhh, I;m still not a fan, uhhhh of Saitek's junk.
jeeze this is the gayest review ive ever seen!!!!!!!!!!
booorrriiinggg
its unnecessary
@icefire001 all most all modern fighters has a non moving stick;)