You don't need a perfect accent
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- A lot of students of German are keen to get the accent exactly right. But is this really necessary, or even helpful? Here's why I think it isn't.
Music:
"Style Funk" and "Hot Swing"
by Kevin MacLeod incompetech.com/
Creative Commons Attribution licence
---------
Support me on Patreon for access to bonus content and more:
/ rewboss
Send letters and postcards to:
Rewboss
Postfach 10 06 29
63704 Aschaffenburg
Germany
Please don't send parcels or packages, or anything that has to be signed for.
---------
My website:
www.rewboss.com/
My blog:
rewboss.blogspo...
My Twitter feed:
/ rewboss
My Facebook profile:
/ rewboss
I've been living in Norway for 20 years. On a good day people wonder if I'm Danish.
That's just brutal.
But you're in fact a 20 year old Norwegian?
Ah den suger, av alle aksenter så er det den verste også :(
...in short, Ach.
Everybody thinks that I'm from Tromsø but they still won't give me a job in 2020 as soon as they see my ID card (German)
Michael Fassbender had a terrible accent playing an English spy in Germany in Inglorious Basterds and he only got busted when he didn't know how to use his fingers... :)
he speaks german well but every german can tell, he is not a native speaker..
1) he claimed to be from Switzerland in the Movie... and 2) you should listen to my daughter :) growing up in Ireland as well ... with 3 languages .. and this does not even include Irish so far :)
Actually, he was caught right away by the officer, but lied his way out of it by claiming that he was raised in secluded village on a Swiss border. Yet, the officer kept his suspicion until more certain proof.
@@BangOlafson well swiss german is nowhere near how he's sounding
Inglorious Basterds came to my mind, too, when the second profession was mentioned, that had to have a perfect accent.
Bonjorno...
In my years in England, I strived to improve on my accent all the time. Not under the assumption that I might perfect it, ever. Nor to hide, where I was from. Nobody ever assumed I might be British. But getting a feel for British accents proved to be very helpful in understanding people. My listening skills benefited from my efforts to improve my pronunciations.
Where are you from?
Same here. I do a lot of work talking to English speakers, but for some reason I can't get my accent consistent. I will sound slightly Scottish or English, sometimes even Irish. But never anything even remotely normal.
@@michaelhawkins1528 I'm so sorry I missed your question. Surely, it's much too late now for an answer? Anyway, I'm sure you figured it out by now. Not a single joke in my entire comment. If that isn't a giveaway I don't know what is :-D
@@RozzmanLists wow 3 years later hahahah .you are late for a responce , ah okay Hallo deutscher
@@michaelhawkins7389 Oh, tut mir leid. Ich hatte damals nicht bemerkt, dass du mir eine Frage gestellt hattest. Diesmal bekam ich durch deine direkte Ansprache eine Nachricht und kann zurück grüßen.
Hallo 🙂
I remember a certain German EU-Minister whose accent made his speeches go viral.
Günther Oettinger?
@@evil_schnitzel7867 Jupp.
English with a German accent is absolutely horrible!
In fact I think that the only accent even worse than a German accent is an Indian accent!
@@felixw19 I have a norwegian friend who thinks the same about their accents. It's normal, I think
That wasn't just his accent. His grammar and vocabulary was terrible, too, and that was the chief reason why it went so viral. "Alles hängt zusammen" = "Everything hangs together"? Hard to not get a toothache unto hearing this.
While you don't need a perfect accent, I think getting somewhere close is still important. I work at a University where I meet a lot of people who are ESL. Personally, I find it easier to understand if someone messes up the grammar or word order a little, quite often you can infer what they mean from context (usually because if you took what they said literally it would be utterly ridiculous!). However, if you drastically mispronounce nearly every phoneme (as some, but certainly not all, Chinese students are prone to do) honestly it just sounds like gibberish.
There are also words that are nearly homophones, like "thirteen" and "thirty". And you can imagine in a University working with scientific equipment, making sure you pronounce them differently is very important! (Though admittedly even fluent English speakers can mess that one up)
Yeah, listening to people with clear & correct pronunciation is MUCH easier. Even local accents/dialects can make a huge difference. Then you add a train station or a busy road and all my chances of understanding anything instantly vaporize.
My experience is that some accents are more easy to understand than others, even if someone has a really strong one. It seems that the pronunciations of languages can be more "compatible" to each other or less and if you happen to study a rather "incompatible" sounding language, getting to a point where your accent is understandable might be a lot harder.
What I do with 13 and 30 is to exagerate the 13 like:.
Thirteeeeeen. And the 30 very short and marked like thirTY.
Im soanish native speaker by the way.
I really felt your story about having too good an accent and it ultimately hurting you. I began learning German before the age of 12, so my accent is actually pretty authentic sounding. The last time I was in Germany, people told me if they didn't know any better, they'd assume I had been born there. The problem with dealing with strangers is that they'd assume I spoke German natively, and would start rattling off at me too fast for me to keep up. That and people trying to get me to sign their petitions thought I was just being a dick when I told them I couldn't sign for their cause because I'm not German (had to literally show someone my passport once to prove my non-citizenship).
Now give us the R video.
I know I don't NEED a perfect accent to communicate. But I do believe that getting better and better at an accent is just like getting better and better at drawing or playing an instrument. It's learnable, and not being as good as I wish inhibits me from communicating the way I want to communicate. I'm already fully fluent in grammar and vocabulary in English, so the next logical step is the phonology.
0:53 ich bin deutsch und möchte jetzt alle sieben varianten hören ...
Ich auch :D Ich werde hier im Rheinland immer für mein rollendes R ausgelacht und würde es so gern loswerden XD
Sprech das rollende R wie das vom Rammstein Sänger aus und du bist damit besonders cool^^
Also das eine wird r ausgesprochen, das andere r und das andere r und das, dass danach kommt, wird als r ausgesprochen, dann wieder r und dann ein anderes r und das letzte r wird wie ein r ausgesprochen.
oder du bist aus Berlin, dann spart man sich gern das R und spricht stattdessen A
aber-aba, super-supa usw ;)
Hier mal eine Liste mit Links zu den entsprechenden Wikipedia-Artikeln. Dort kann man zu jedem ein Hörbeispiel finden. Reihenfolge entspricht dem Video.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimmhafter_alveolarer_Vibrant
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimmhafter_alveolarer_Tap
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimmhafter_alveolarer_Approximant
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimmhafter_uvularer_Vibrant
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimmhafter_uvularer_Frikativ
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimmhafter_velarer_Frikativ
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimmloser_uvularer_Frikativ
My first foreign language as a child was French. So when I started learning other languages later, I applied what I used in French class apparently a bit too well because when I speak Spanish, people think I'm French. In France, they notice that I have an accent, but can't quite place it, so they assume I'm Belgian or Swiss. I can live with that. It gets trickier now that I'm learning Vietnamese which is a tonal language. There are four different prononciations to each vowel and every one changes the meaning od the word.
My mom had a similar story to your "first time visiting"-story. In the 70's or 80's (don't know exaclty), she worked for a japanese company. As her office had international calls regularly, and people from japan would end up on her desk, she let a collegue teach her the words "Excuse me, I don't know Japanese, I will connect you to someone else" in japanese, and rehearsed them so intensly that it sounded perfect. The consequence was that the people calling here just started to talk more, not believing that she couldn't understand japanese.
I totally agree!!!
I say that to all people trying to learn english.
I'm spanish native speaker by the way.
Greetings from Chile 🇨🇱
I once, at some conference, got someone to check my badge and remark "I thought you were british". I can live with that. ;-)
And I really (I tell myself ;-)) stopped sweating pronunciation in general when I realized that even native speakers mispronounce stuff. And don't get me started on spelling… I do sweat that, but I really shouldn't.
In slawischen Sprachen, oder zumindest in der russischen Sprache, ist das etwas strenger. Man unterscheidet zwischen harten und weichen Vokalen, und wenn auf einen Konsonanten ein weicher Vokal folgt, so wird auch der Konsonant "weich" (palatisiert) ausgesprochen. Vorallem beim T und beim L passiert das sehr häufig.
Zusätzlich zum weichen Vokal gibt es auch noch das Weichheitszeichen ь, das auch häufig am Wortende erscheint. Und tatsächlich verändert sich manchmal auch die komplette Bedeutung eines Wortes, je nachdem ob man einen einzelnen Konsonanten hart oder weich ausspricht.
Beispiele:
воскресение (Wiederauferstehung) und воскресенье (Sonntag)
мать (Mutter) und мат (Russische "Schimpfsprache")
Man wird zwar trotzdem verstanden, aber es kann eben zu komischen Situationen führen und gerade beim Lernen der Sprache ist das anfangs sehr schwer, die richtige Aussprache zu finden - vorallem da man auch sehr viel mit der Zunge arbeiten muss, was niemand gewohnt ist. Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob man das auch als Akzent sehen kann, aber es geht in dieselbe Richtung
Great thumbnail, funniest joke in the world!
Your German is great, even better than my English after 10+ years in the UK.
I think some people worry about their accent because it affects their chances to land a job.
Oh, pretty dangerous thumbnail you choose...
you nailed it with asking questions in a foreign language, and the reply coming with speed and the assumption that you, the question poser, will understand, I've lived in Bulgaria for just over 2 years, and still struggle with m/f/ and neuter, for adjectives and nouns, most people understand my mistakes, but there are pedants here, that will dismiss my entire statement or question, for one small error, but I take it on the chin, google it later, and try and try again. Oh and now I have learned that there are four forms of one/a, edna, edno, edin and edni. Your videos are very informative, but humourous, though google corrects my recent spelling !!
I can just confirm that - in my experience - Germans never cared for my accent (which is quite heavy) .. but did care for vocabulary and grammar. So, better use the correct word in the correct case, especially gender case - but how i do my "r" (i cannot do the German one because its always rolled in my mothertongue) or the hard "t" or some other oddities .. no one really cares much. Also the people i deal with the most (people from Hamburg) are quite aware that their German is tainted, too... .
For me as a native german speaker the correct gender is quite irrelevant, as long as it is used consistent. It doesn't change the meaning. I can hear the accent anyway and don't expect anybody to remember the genders correctly. Hardly any non native speaker gets them right, its just impossible, beyond the few vague rules that exist.
It gets confusing though, when non native speakers, that learned german as a child and thus don't have an accent, mix up the articles, because then I don't expect it.
@@XramDivad Es ist nicht unmöglich das richtige (grammatische) Geschlecht zu lernen, es ist nur unglaublich schwierig. Aber Feministen und Feministinnen machen die ganze Sache nun noch schwieriger, indem sie Wörter einführen wollen, die kein Geschlecht haben. Lehrer*in bzw. LehrerIn haben kein Geschlecht mehr, also wäre es schlicht falsch einen Artikel davor zu setzten, was für nicht Muttersprachler noch schwieriger zu lernen ist. Besonders wenn man nicht die "korrekte" Form kennt: der Lehrer und die Lerhrerin.
It is not impossible to learn the (grammatical) right gender, but it's very difficult. But feminists(m) and feminists(w) make it even more difficult by inventing words without a gender. Teacher(m/w) or teacher(m/w) have no gender anymore, so it is absolutly wrong to put an article in front of it, which makes it even more difficult for non native speakers. Espacially if you don't know the "correct" form: the teacher (m) and the teacher (w).
P.S. the translation doesn't get the problem
@@SoulAcid1 ein•e Lehrer•in. Kein Problem, da einen Artikel vorzusetzen. Wenn bekannt ist, dass es ein Mann oder eine Frau ist, kann man dann einfach die richtige Form benutzen. Zumal geschlechterinklusive Formen meist im Plural auftauchen, da gibt es das Problem gar nicht.
@@jlljlj6991 Wenn man den Artikel schon weiß macht die Geschlechtlose Form keinen Sinn mehr.
@@SoulAcid1 eben. Sie wird angewendet, wenn man es nicht weiß.
Being German myself, while speaking English rather well, I am often thought to be a native speaker by other native speakers. It makes me a little bit proud, but I also think about different dialects and how I'd love to speak with a Scottish accent or one from one of the southern states of the USA...
I agree with you on everything you have said here. For instance, my Syrian father has been living in Germany and Syria for more than 20 years and is pretty much fluent in German. Occasionally his Arabian accent becomes noticeable but is never so thick that it throws you off.
Dan Al:
Yes, I think may it is easier to speak German with little accent than English, especially when your native language language is as phonetic as Arabic. And German is may be not as phonetic as Arabic, but much more than English (think about "Laughing" [=laafing], but "fat" is not written "ghat").
By the way that makes English pronunciation very bad when it comes to transcribe words from languages that do not use Latin alphabet, for example in the case of short "u". Is it pronounced as "a" like in "but" or like "real u"? For Arabic transcription for example the German way of writing is much clearer than the English (or the even more horrible French version).
@@hassanalihusseini1717 English has no phonetic letters. You might think they use an Alphabet but in reality they use the whole combination of letters that make up the word as a symbol. It's like Egyption. One symbol per concept or thing. And some symbols are even used to express several concept or things...
The English know that! There have been linguists publishing writing systems to reform English writing into using a phonetic script again. All failed. English has no central language authority and is too wide spread...it's doomed to fall apart into all sorts of different languages.
@@TremereTT Yeah, English has become this bastardised, lovely, flawed language that for whatever reason is the lingua franca.
In high school one of my English teachers made a huge deal about pronunciation. According to her, we were supposed to speak English as well as our native languages (Finnish in this case). Not surprisingly, I've heard native English speakers make comments on Finnish people apologizing for their "bad" English while in reality speaking it as well as a foreigner possibly can. Demanding a perfect accent from somebody learning a foreign language is counterproductive at best and at worst can make somebody give up on learning a language.
I'm a german teacher for migrants - and I couldn't agree more to every single point you made!
I am Malaysian and I taught myself German using a self-instruction kit I bought in a bookshop. I am yet to have a conversation with an actual German speaker. I wonder what my accent would sound like to such a person if I did.
Ja: Bayer-Hund. Das, oder die Flipper-Wald-Gespütt!
Anyone feel like dropping dead? :-)
Zats not funny! Hahahahha, die Flipper Wald Gesputt. Ahahahaha...drops dead.
Automatic English translation: "Yes: Bayer dog. That, or the pinball forest spit!". I have heard of the film, but I don't get the joke. Apparently, this machine kills fascists, but I need more information. Any German expert divining an explanation on this nonsense?
Bayer?: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer
Joke: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funniest_Joke_in_the_World
@@SoooooWhatt it's not a real joke. Those are just random words, gibberish.
@@kaismueller Indeed! No wonder Google Translate was confused by this! _Danke!_
I'd really like to hear and listen to you speaking German. So it would have been very great, if you made a German video!
He had an outro in German once, I think it his video on German being a harsh language
@@aerobolt256 Correct! In "The harsh German language", he demonstrated a normal-sounding German accent (which, it turns out, sounds different from that of the stereotypical maddened Austrian chancellor of the sitcoms and war films). Here's the outro and the not-so-harsh German language: ruclips.net/video/PuxgMGBymos/видео.html
Very good advice. I also stopped improving my accent after progress had slowed down and would not have done much me for anyways. Vocabulary and ironing out certain grammar flaws ist way more useful.
Das "R" wird auch in verschiedenen Regionen, Dialekt abhängig, anders ausgesprochen.
Also wirklich, da muss man sich keinen Kopf zerbrechen.
When I learn a language, I aim at a neat, perfectly understandable pronunciation.
This means that I usually pronounce the individual sounds and words correctly but I usually miss the typical sing-song of the native speakers.
Although they soon realise I'm not a native myself, they are unable to identify my country of origin and this is something I welcome as it prevents them from classifying me according to trite stereotypes.
wie rücksichtslos du bist. dein thumbnail hat bei mir zu schweren körperverletzungen geführt. gut das der witz nicht komplett zu lesen war, dann wäre ich jetzt tot. ;-)
Wenigstens einem ist es aufgefallen 😉
Mir ist das auch aufgefallen - sofort!
While it is true that a completely “perfect” (i.e. totally native-like) accent is not necessary for most language learners, I still think it’s a good idea to work at one’s accent as much as one can, without burning oneself out or sacrificing too much time for other aspects of language learning. Besides the obvious part about wanting to be understood, I think another bonus that people often don’t consider is that having a good accent can give you a degree of confidence, and that confidence can carry you forward in other aspects of your language learning. This was actually mentioned by Dōgen and Summer Rane in relation to learning Japanese, however I can say that I’ve personally benefitted from having a convincing accent in my quest to learn Arabic, which has a rather complicated phonology that non-native learners often struggle with. I’ve had many people comment on how native-like my accent is, and that always gives me such a confidence boost and makes me more willing to practice the language more, while a lot of colleagues of mine have not had that same experience and they will often end up feeling rather browbeaten and discouraged and ultimately may end up quitting altogether. In my case it’s because I have a background in linguistics, specifically phonology and phonetics, and so I was armed with a level of technical expertise on the anatomy of the vocal tract and the acoustics of sound that allowed me to work on my accent from the very early stages of learning the language, rather than ending up in a situation where I have to undo bad habits later on.
Thanks for sharing your experience. There's always wisdom in your videos. Thanks once again.
The quality of my German pronunciation varies from day to day, but usually either people can't tell where I am from, or people think I am German but assume it is some regional variant they are unfamiliar with (usually at some point they will notice I have a non-native accent but it often takes a long time). Especially in the range of about 3-5 sentences, most people assume I am German because I also look German.
I can say that it historically hasn't been particularly helpful, and actually often problematic. At the beginning I (understandably) had difficulty with German customs and etiquette, so instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt as a foreigner, a lot of people just assumed I was rude. Also Germans are much less sociable with strangers on average, but at the same time proportionally more motivated to speak with people who have certain accents. Not being obviously recognizable as an English speaker made things socially more difficult for me in Germany than they really needed to be.
Thanks for your great videos. Danke für Ihnen tolle Videos.
The last two sounds in the script, the close-mid back unrounded vowel (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-mid_back_unrounded_vowel ) (mellow "g") and the voiceless velar fricative (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_fricative ) ("ach-Laut"/"ach-sound") are not "r" sounds. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Standard_German
It's kinda strange how especially German people worry about the accent, when they're speaking English... (forming the th-sound is really hard if you don't have it in your own languange) even to the point to apologise for it. I never got why. A french person for example would never do that and be ashamed of his accent, as far as I can tell.
A really good point. It reminded me of Mr. Heinrich Pumpernickel AKA Chris Howland.
Excellent 🎯
Sehr schön und treffend erklärt. Das Einzige was hier aber grundlegend falsch ist, ist die Sache mit der Aussage "perfekter Akzent". Denn wer perfekt Deutsch spricht, hat keinen Akzent. (nicht zu verwechseln mit Dialekten) Ein Beispiel für völlig akzentfreies Deutsch ist das Deutsch, welches unsere Synchronsprecher beim Synchronisieren fremdsprachiger Filme verwenden. Wenn ein (nicht als Sprecher ausgebildeter) Deutscher Hochdeutsch spricht, hat er einen bundesdeutschen Akzent. Spricht ein Österreicher Hochdeutsch, dann das Selbe nur mit österreichischem Unterton in seiner Sprechweise, Schweizer haben dann eben einen schweizerischen Akzent (Schweizerdeutsch ist davon ausgenommen, da es, obwohl laut Wikipedia ein Dialekt, eigentlich eine eigene Sprache ist, sofern man den Schweizern Glauben schenken darf was diese Aussage angeht). Und bei Sprechern nichtdeutscher Muttersprachen ist es dann eben Deutsch mit zum Beispiel Ungarischem Akzent usw.
Actually, I think a slight accent can sometimes even add to a personality. Take Chris Howland for example. As far as I know he actually kind of cultivated his British accent as kind of a trademark.
And by the way, German itself is not as homogenuous as one might think, there are lots and lots of local accents anyway. So I agree, vocabulary and grammar are far more important.
Growing up there was a joke that I was a KGB spy in a former life. I could hear an accent and do it back convincingly after just a few minutes of hearing it.
That translated over to learning languages. I have been told dozens of times that I have absolutely no accent in German. From hearing me speak, Germans automatically assume I’m German. It even goes so far that some of them think I’m Franconian because I have a slight Franconian lilt. My problem has been, moving to Germany, the Germans have absolutely no understanding of the fact that I, as an American, cannot produce the same incredibly specific, unbelievably bureaucratic paperwork as they can (for example: moving to Germany with my dog, I had to present a signed piece of paper certifying that my dog is in fact a poodle. We don’t have that in the US, at least not where I was living).
They assume I’m German, so why wouldn’t I have this and that. Meanwhile, the US doesn’t even have an equivalent to some of what Germans will ask you for. Then they think I’m trying to con them until I show them my American passport with my residency permit in it.
Similarly, I can speak French well, but not completely fluently (yeah, I know, an American who can speak three languages, very rare, heard it before). My French accent in French is really convincing, because again, I hear it and just somehow instinctively know how to make the exact same sound back. So when I ask French people if they can explain something to me in English if something is really complicated they stubbornly say “You speak French so well, so let’s talk in French”.
1:36 - Exactly my english teachers opinion! He also said, that you do not need to memorize the whole vocabluary.
"If you realise, that you can't remember a specific word, just describe it." - Mr. Pfeiffer, 2010
A very good and true statement
In Germany people ask me if I am from Switzerland, in Austria people think I am Dutch. I must work on my pronunciation. I am Swedish by the way
Excellent advice.... takes a lot of heat off us noobs.
When we learned that we Germans were viewed as totally evil by tons of countries for what our ancestors did to humanity during WW II, I decided to learn to use English and other languages so that my origin could never be detected. That is how much afraid and ashamed I was.
the 'r' in uralt is actually a final 'r' even in combined words like'ur'-'alt'. that sound is relatively close to the british english final 'r' like in 'father' or 'other'.
Well no, because in most British dialects the "r" is not pronounced at all in those words, unless followed by a word beginning with a vowel: the vowel sound is represented by the "e". In a word like "nur", the "r" is pronounced, but as a vowel and not a consonant. That is, "-ur" is a diphthong, not a vowel+consonant.
@@rewboss-- I think what 16-BitPixelDude means is that German _aber_ is a very close rhyme of (non-rhotic) British English _(h)arbour_ . The final vowel in the German word is [ɐ] -- that in the English word is *traditionally* transcribed as [ə] -- but in fact it's much closer to [ɐ] in the mouths of very many modern BrE speakers.
Be assured, by the way, that I do very much agree with all you had to say about not over-fretting about accent! The observations in the preceding paragraph were made by me with my language-nerd hat on. :)
That suspiciously looks like part of the funniest joke in the world. The video thumbnail I mean. Brilliant!
It's also a problem if you only know some words. It is said to be polite to at least speak some words in the language. But if these sound good, they will answer in the language and then you need to tell them that you don't understand anything which is a kind of teasing in the first place. So be polite or honest ?
3:10 - Living in LA, if I go to a Latin American street Vendor and ask for something in a "good" Spanish accent (even simple requests like, "dos pupusa mixtas por forvor") they will then ask me questions way too quickly. If I speak in an obvious Anglo accent, they will respond in simple English or simple Spanish. Ideally simple Spanish, since I am TRYING to improve (but honestly they speak in English most times)
I myself love accents! I meet so many none native English speakers online so I like to guess by the accent where they're from :D
One of the hardest ones so far are french canadians!
I pronounce it quite well I'm told. Used to entertain swiss germans by reading my german te book out loud. Apparently I speak very posh german. Did you have much German from school in the uk?
Wow, good point :-) nicely done, sir.
Wise words ! I like your message. sidenote: sometimes the meaning of a word can change if slightly mispronounced.
I sometimes seem to mix English accents (I'm German) when speaking the language - and I don't just mean US and UK English. I'm a big fan of UK comedy and learned to understand stuff like Red Dwarf - or routines by Billy Conolly and other things that use different European English accents. And apparently, for example when I'm tired or simply distracted (say, while playing a multiplayer game) I can switch from one accent to another without noticing it (Like from US English to a slight Glasgow-tint, back to ze klische Cherman Akzent, yah?). And since I twice visited Ireland (and started to learn their way to roll the "r") it's gotten even worse. :D
Good advice!
And I thought I was the only person in the world who was plagued by such a good accent when speaking German/French/Italian that I solicited answers that were so naturally fast and colloquial that I couldn’t understand…
My German is pretty good, and I have discovered there are two types of Germans: those who eventually realise I'm not German either from my accent or when I make a language mistake, and a second group who refuses to believe the first group exists. "No! Impossible! You can tell immediately!"
I think it's important to differentiate accent and pronunciation. Learning to speak in a perfect accent as a foreigner might be impossible, unless you were exposed to the language from a really early age. Having good pronunciation, on the other hand, is something that, in my opinion, is very essential to speaking a language, and is something that is overlooked most of the time.
And the answer to "how do I pronounce the german r" should not only be "which r?", but also "which German?", as the pronunciation varies so widely throughout and across the countries.
Meanwhile, I strive to eradicate my German accent from my English pronunciation - first with a version of RP that was as posh as possible (not the best idea if your model of RP is from the 60s), and then it was a version of an Estuary English accent (similar to David Tennant's 10th Doctor, but now it's Andrew's accent).
I pick up accents rather easily, so after a day or two of listening to Oliver O'Neil, I switch to a Scottish accent (plus some IPA transcriptions).
But there is more to accents: Intonation and speed, aspects which are very subtle and difficult to master.
I heard that Lufthansa pilots are advised to speak English with an easily recognizable German accent.
very charming :)
*sees thumbnail*
*dies of laughter*
refering to the german accent
In fact there is no "common german accent"... every region has it´s own variation of an local accent...that makes every german to identify where he actually comes from while hearing him/her speak even if he /she speaks clear standard german. Because Germany is a country where several different german tribes are gathered together into one nation. But there are in fact 2 southern tribes which are divided. One are the Alemannen who are also the german Swiss and a tiny group in the western part of Austria and the other one are the Bajuwaren (=Bavarian) who are also the Austrians.
Although the variations of german accents are huge they are sectioned in two main groups which are "northern accents" which are "lowland german accents" = "niederdeutsch" and "southern accents" which are "highland german accents" = "hochdeutsch" refering to some very noticable differences in pronouncation between those two. (Well "standard german" is also labeled as "hochdeutsch" because it is based on the higher german accents..which has historical/political reasons but to explain that in detail would simply break the mould)
The "ch" sound is one of the most noticeable example for the differences of north and south like for instance "ich" which is pronounced in the southern regions accurate like standard german but becomes "ik" in the northern parts of Germany (but just in pronuncation and not in spelling) meaning "I"...and in some other terms the "ch" becomes a "sch" sound as well like for instance "China" = in southern regions it is pronounced like "Kina" and in the northern regions it´s pronounced like "Schina"... although in standard german it is pronounced accurate like it is written with the hissing sound of "Ch"
So for those who are learning german it simply makes no sense to focus on having the "right accent" while learning because there is simply no "overall right accent" so to say..all you have to focus on in matter of pronuncation is the Alphabeth in standard german.. then you simply have to adapt your standard pronuncation to the proper form which is common on the actual place where you are actual staying if you like to sound (nearly) like a local german speaker
I don't know why people get so hung up on accent. I regularly talk to people from probably a dozen different countries who are not native speakers of English. They all have foreign accents. This causes no problem whatsoever. So why would I worry about speaking German with a German accent? On the rare occasions that I speak my broken German, I try to pronounce the words as well as I can, and people seem to understand. I'm sure they can tell I'm English; this doesn't cause any problems.
By the way, the spy thing is something of a Hollywood trope. The vast majority of spies are not foreigners pretending to be natives. They're natives who, for whatever reason (usually money, sometimes ideology), want to pass information to a foreign country.
My father had one piece of advice about being a South African travelling in Europe: first make them understand that you are not a native English speaker before addressing someone in English. (Especially in France).
When I first moved to the Netherlands, my Dutch accent was also apparently too good. I'd ask a question and they'd respond at full speed, incorrectly thinking I was fluent. Apparently there are some subtle similarities between Canadian English and Netherlandic Dutch accents, because I've heard the same from other Canadians in the Netherlands and Netherlanders in Canada.
this makes being up at 430am worth it #rewBOSS
Zere were zwei peanuts going down ze Straße. And one was a salted....peanut. Hahahahaha
Me, having just spent the last 5 hours trying to successfully roll an R (which I've been attempting for 4 years): "Oh... I see"
You’re right, - except it doesn’t work that way with the French - if you speak french with a bad accent, you’ll simply be ignored. If you speak with a better accent but might make a minor grammatical mistake, you will be corrected before the conversation can go on. I love the french language, but have a hard time communicating- in Italy or Germany, if you can put just two words together, they’ll love you forever. 😊
I'll do an exaggerated and phony German accent while speaking English, but the minute I utter anything in German, it's spoken with my Australian accent.
I think you're right that the accent doesn't have to be perfect, just comprehensible.
Although, I think you underestimate that there are a large number of foreign language speakers that aren't comprehensible. They go to so much effort to learn a foregin language; they understand all the grammar rules, have an extensive vocabulary but can't be understood becuase of their pronounciation. Don't stress too much about pronounciation but realise that it is an important aspect of communicating effectively.
So rewboss, just tell me which accent/dialect of English do you speak in your videos? I presume it's the normal standard idiom but may be wrong
here is another example how the perfect native accent can become a detriment. I left Unterfranken nearly 30 years ago, now living in the US. my last used german money was the "Mark". So when i visit, and go shopping, I look german, i am german, i speak the local dialect perfectly, and i can't count the money :) being old doesn't help either. I have to squint at every coin to see what it is. That has caused many a raised eyebrow. The think i am fucking with them :)
I know I don't need a (nearly) perfect accent. But I want one! :D
Deutsch fur euch has a full video on pronouncing rs. I probably miss spelled her handle.
Interesting as usual!
I never understood why anyone even wants that? It is about sounding good and being understood, not about pretending to be a native. On the contrary, i think overzealous aping of natives is cringey, a slight accent is a plus, charming, tells a story... and not a detriment.
Former TV host Rudi Carrell proves the point of this video. He kept his strong Dutch accent until the end and was very popular in Germany. However, this does not apply everywhere: in my experience the French do not appreciate if someone speaks their language less than perfectly and have difficulties understanding a foreign accent.
först
(please excuse my bad accent :-)
föast
Fürst
foeist
America first, Germany Förster
Furzt.
i have only ever heard two or three people speaking accent free high german who hadn't been brought up in germany. these were professional translators in radio interviews. i'd fully agree to rewboss' assessment of the value of _accent free_ speech: it's far too difficult and not worth the time. grammar and vocabulary is far more important.
and by the way, what does it mean, _free of accents_? if you manage to speak accent free bavarian noone in hamburg would understand you. and accent free german is derided in all german areas where people try to preserve their local accents ...
Als Deutscher mag ich gerne meinen norddeutschen Dialekt. Dialekte stiften Identität und ich finde, dass Akzente dies auch können und dürfen. Warum soll man nicht hören, wo ich herkomme? Wie du schon sagtst, hauptsache man versteht es gut.
You have got a hessien accent. When I heard you speak German anyway.
Nobody seems to have seen the lethal joke exept "musik og fortid" - and me, of course.
Als ich in der Schweiz war, wurde meinen amerikanischen Akzent als nur noch eine andere komische deutsche Dialekt wahrgenommen.
For anyone who might be interested, "Flipperwald" translates "pinball forest".
I may add that according to Google Translate, the joke in _The_ _Funniest_ _Joke_ _in_ _the_ _World_ comes out into English as:
Q: When is the _Nunstück_ git and _slotermeyer?_
A: Yes! _Beiher_ dog the Oder the pinball machine forest _gersput!_
Untranslatable nonsense is written in _italics._ The original "German" version of this joke went:
Q: Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer?
A: Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Clearly, this joke is evidence that, as Andrew said at 1:55, actors can "have a terrible time speaking any foreign language well" and still be liked among non-Germans. Out of the 14 words in the German joke, 4 are untranslatable nonsense and one comes out as... "pinball machine forest"? What even is a "pinball machine forest"? A forest full of pinball machines? Or a forest that _is_ a pinball machine? This joke's humor shows another side when you realize that it contains several British-invented words that don't translate as anything an actual German would know!
For the joke itself, and many more jokes like it on both the British and the British-playing-German sides: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funniest_Joke_in_the_World
Am I the only one who's disappointed because the thumbnail promised the deadliest joke in the world? ;)
As a foreign speaker would not concentrate on the different r-sounds in German. The only one r-sound that sound REALLY weird in German is that famous US-American r. There are far better and far more important sounds to learn in German pronunciation...
Watch Inglorious bastards if you want to see what happens when a spy doesn't speak with a perfect accent.
Germans abroad easily pick up the foreign accent, so born germans sound like american tourists, when they live in the US for few years.
Beast to arm creeks two hearts fear
But one thing.. it is Porsche and not Porsch :D
Someone send this to Evan Edinger :D
ive been told that i speak english with almost no accent but when im drunck, i sound like an american. not sure if thats a compliment or an insult
An insult, of course :-)
Hm, when i lived in the UK i apologized by saying "after a few pints my english gets better". The answer often was "ours too"..,.
Du must einfach nur behaupten, du kommst aus "Dillenburg". Die sprechen da eine seltsamen Dialekt: Ich dachte, als ich das erste Mal dort war, das sind alles Briten auf urlaub. Besonders das A :o)
Honestly, where are these spies with the “perfect” accents (and which accent would it be…?)? I’m a linguist and an interpreter. My accents are pretty good in my foreign languages - in German people assume I’m native, in Russian I at one time passed for someone from the Baltics… but at some point it becomes perfectly evident I’m not. And I’ve honestly never heard anyone do a consistent job in my mother tongue, English, either - even excellent speakers won’t get all the nuance of a coherent regional or social dialect. I suspect intelligence agencies can recruit a local to pass on secrets for a great less effort and expense…..
Haha I had that same problem with people overestimating my fluency. I blame flash cards making me really good at common sentences.
Funny I never had the problem with French - damn language!
I want to get the German accent right so I can feel more integrated, especially upon getting German citizenship.
But which accent? You have several dozens to choose from.
Accents don't even matter at university level. I cannot tell you the number of times that either students or doctors/professors of the English language have used terrible pronounciation in my presence.
Like, you want to go for your doctor thesis, but you zaund laik ze Dshermanz arrr komink?
No problem.
I have, however, found accents particularly usefull in immersive learning. I used to watch Star Trek: The Next Generation, and particularly pay attention to the way Jean-Luc Picard speechifies. Then I would immitate his accent. By doing a kind of parody of him, I no longer had to actually think about how to pronounce the words, which took those hesitatant moments ouf of my speech.