Killing Carl just cut the core of the show and what it was about to deep. The walking dead was always at its centre the story of Rick grime’s finding his son, and then trying to build a world for his son so he could go on to live. Carl was always supposed to outlive Rick, he was supposed to inherit this world. And yeah there was Judith, but her survival doesn’t represent the same thing. Judith was born into this world, she is a product of it. Carl was supposed to be the survivor, the last man standing. The one who saw what the world was before, and the one who saw what the world was after. He wasn’t supposed to be the hero, he was supposed to be the witness. The story teller. The one who would carry on the story of the bloody beautiful horrifying gritty efforts that went into carving out the society he would see be built. He was supposed to witness the collapse of civilisation and the rebirth of civilisation. The show killed Carl without realising they had nobody else to replace him with. Every child born before the apocalypse was killed. Ron, Enid, Carl, Sophia. And In this way, there were no survivors.
I guess this is a controversial opinion but I really don't mind that Carl was killed off, Chandler Riggs wasn't good enough of an actor for a bigger role. Don't get me wrong he had some great moments but it's still bad compared to the great actors the show has like Andy and Jeffrey. I don't get it either, he was better when he was younger and got worse as he aged.
Just did a rewatch, it was some sad ass dialogue though. He wrote them all a letter but they don't go into it like they set up that they might. Was pretty strange.
Yeah, that whole letter writing thing was crap. It was very, very out of character for Carl. It was so frustrating when the writing became so consistently bad.
@ 🤣 Carl went so quickly from shooting up a bunch of Saviors to, “We can make peace and all live happily ever after.” I’ll just write some letters and that’ll do the trick. I think they decided, “ Nope we don’t want to pay Chandler more money. Let’s kill him off. How can we do that?” He didn’t even go out heroically.
Bringing back Morales just to kill him off literally within the same scene really summarizes the latter seasons of TWD: Lots of artificial hype, terrible execution, and abandoning plot lines and not doing characters any justice.
You say latter seasons but it's really only s8 and s11 and most of that is due to AMC interference. The writing isn't great either don't get me wrong, but I'll defend them that the studio backs them into a corner (s11 mostly, I have no defence of s8 at all I can't even rewatch it)
The hype was definitely real. It was getting more ratings than the nfl at one point. despite the hindsight hate, the season had everyone talking about it. You couldn't get away from it.
@@timoplays478 The only good thing about Season 10 is Negan. Jeffery Dean Morgan has been carrying The corpse of TWD franchise on his back for the last 8 years tbh. Series would be completely dead if not for him. Everything else about Season 10 and 11 feels like Marvel writing and the show doesn't feel like it's for adults anymore and more targeted towards younger teenagers.
The Office Season 9 is a much worse season only saved by the finale, Season 8 first half has a lot of bangers. Arrow Season 8 is great. Supernatural Season 8 is great, etc.
Morgan wouldn’t have had the same effect. Yeah, Morgan was the first person Rick met out of the hospital and he showed him how things are now, but that wouldn’t have made him change his mind like Carl did. Carl was the driving force for changing for the better and uniting the communities. Seeing all the innocent people at the sanctuary after following Negan back was what changed his mind about them. If it wasn’t for that, Rick would’ve wiped them all out and never united everyone.
Carl's death was the biggest WTF moment I've ever seen watching TV. It pretty much solidified my belief that AMC was just trying to get people to come back next week. Absolutely terrible call.
You mean come back after the 2 month break b/c carls bite reveal was the mid season cliffhanger😂 I remember reading comments during the break talking abt Carl being immune or getting some kind of skin transfusion/ replacement chest. It was such a wild time 😂
This was the season that did it for my wife and me. We stopped watching when Carl was killed off and the rumors of Rick dying. We have never picked this show up again. Mind you, we watched it from the beginning, Season 1 episode 1. We used to watch The Talking Dead recap right after. We were 100% about Sunday nights. Then this season happened, and killed it all.
16:45 FINALLY someone talks about that. Morgan going to FearTWD caused Carl to die. That crossover was so badly done that it killed both shows. I am actually impressed that Gimple was able to ruin the universe with one single decition.
I’m still pissed at what they did to Fear. Ruined it all with a pointless crossover that did nothing but kill the show right when it was starting to get positive traction.
If Rick wasn't the main character, the next logical choice was his son. Carl grew from a kid to a young adult in the apocalypse...and then he just dies in the stupidest way possible. Then in Season 9, Rick leaves the show and there was just no point to it anymore.
I remember before he died. Carl was one of the most hated characters on the show. It just blows my mind. How many people we're offended by it. My gripe isn't them killing him off. It was the execution.
Season 8 is without a doubt the worst season, but imo 8x16 and the “my mercy prevails over my wrath” scene is one of the best scenes in the show. It was like a culmination of Rick’s journey until that point. Too bad how we got there frankly sucked
@@gamewriteeye769hot take a a ending i tend to think about for the show is season 6 and just imagining negan killing rick in the line up, like ricks overconfidence led to his own death, and also a bit of a dark ending aswell
@@ragingpatty1106 Not an ending. S8 ended Rick's character arc. That's when it wraps up. The first 5 episodes of s9 are an epilogue to Rick. Killing Rick at the lineup halts his character progression. Not a hot take, but a tragic take that makes Glenn's death look civil compared to the fans reaction this would garner.
@@J87Leese Personally I felt 10 was mostly good (Covid/10c episodes I thought were just boring aside from the Negan one and the Aaron/FG one) S11 I thought was just there… not bad at all aside from how little the CW felt.
Because I don’t here his name here: Carl was killed off because of Scott Gimple. There is no debate. He was the showerunner during season 8, and what likely happened due to everything he said: He killed off Carl because he didn’t wanna pay him more and also he has said that he loved Morgan and didn’t want him to die. This change got him INCREDIBLE hate and he got fired and became the fear show runner. He brought over Morgan, and fired the previous showerunners and hired new ones who butchered the entire concept of the show. He single-handedly ruined TWD and Fear because of how fucking petty he is.
@@blueguy2128 No no, Morgan’s a good written character in most of his appearances. He’s a good concept and well acted, any issues with him are due to writers.
@@Afish8me2china idc if he's a good character to others. I never liked him after he went insane. He's annoying and stupid. He should be dead. Dude gets old fast and was never enjoyable to watch on screen for me outside of the first episode.
I still remember the few weeks after the "carl's been bit" reveal and how the most wild and insane theories like "carl's immune" "this is how they save the world, Carl's the cure". the community went into insane theory mode because that made more sense at the time than Carl dying. It was a change that did ruin the show for me, I liked it after but no where near as much. I got over carl until "the ones who live" where Rick breaks down about missing carl and then we see RJ (who is the most pointless twd character of all time) and you just think "yeah... this woulda been 1000x more impactful if Carl lived and we saw him and Rick reunite instead"
I think they could have made the original plan for Morgan to be the one to die work, via one simple tweak: have it effect Carl. This would have required the writers to have laid the groundwork for their relationship in Season 6, namely by having them interact more and Morgan taking on a mentor role to Carl, more or less becoming for Carl what Eastman was for him. He notices how awkward Carl seems around kids his own age; he guesses that it's because of the things Carl's experienced outside of Alexandria, and maybe that he can't reconcile the things he's had to do to survive with what life is like inside Alexandria's walls. At this time, he gives Carl "The Way of Peace", and offers to talk anytime he needs it. Flashforward to after the mega herd, and Morgan is teaching Carl how to fight with a staff to make up for his loss of an eye and marksmanship - Carl's not completely useless with a gun now, his aim just isn't as reliable. At this point they're having deep conversations about "The Way of Peace", and while Carl likes a lot of what it says, he doesn't think it will always work. He wants to be able to bring people back, like he was, like Rick was, but he never wants that to endanger his family; maybe he talks about how he shot that Woodbury teenager in Season 3, and how everything he's seen since then (Terminus, the Claimers, the Wolves) has made him go back to thinking that he did the right thing. Morgan admits that he hasn't had to worry about that because he's already lost the people he had to lose, but then repeats "When there's life, there's possibility." And for bonus points, maybe Carl asks him Morgan if he still feels like he has no one left to lose. I think some minor tweaks like this would have helped Carl's transformation make more sense, while giving a little more depth to Morgan as a character and his impact on the narrative. When Morgan's mortally injured during the midseason finale and then dies, here it's Carl who's most heavily affected; maybe he even takes up Morgan's staff. Throughout 8B, while Rick is still focused on his fury and bringing Negan down, Carl is shaken to his core and torn between wanting revenge for his mentor's death, and wanting to honor his teachings. At some point during 8B, Carl and Rick could have a conversation about Shane and the way things turned out with him. Carl could quote Morgan (life, possibility) and ask his dad if they could have brought Shane back from the brink, wouldn't he want to have his best friend back? When it comes to Rick's final showdown with Negan, it can start off more or less like it did in the show as we got it, but turns out more like their final confrontation from the comic, where Rick actually talks Negan down by saying how they should be pooling their resources to fight against the Walkers, the real enemy. Then he slashes Negan and calls for Siddiq to save him. Rick repeats what he said for his own side to hear, to emphasize that the war is over - Negan's reign is over, the Saviors aren't their enemies anymore, and, as the living, they need to stand together against the dead. When Negan wakes up in his cell, it's Rick and Carl talking to him, telling him how he's going to watch them build a new world from inside that cell. Then instead of that memory of Rick walking with a young Carl, we get a flashback to Season 6 when Rick told Carl "I want to show you the new world", both building off the preceding scene, and giving context to Rick coming around to Carl's wish to spare Negan. Through all of this, not only has the show made the most of Morgan and Lennie James's time on the show by making basically everything to follow a tribute to his character, but they've put Carl through a character arc that sets him up to take a more prominent role in the show moving forward, and fortuitously get to keep him around to step into Rick's shoes should Andrew Lincoln still decide to walk away from the show to spend more time with his family. They also potentially save Fear the Walking Dead by not importing Morgan and completely shifting the show's entire tone, though that may rely just as much on not hiring Chambliss & Goldberg to replace Erickson as the showrunner(s). Thank you to those who made it all the way to the end - you're troopers.
All out war was exactly as long as it needed to be. The comic arc was 12 issues or 2 volumes long. It needed a whole season to be told and show the scope of how long the war was.
How? There's real gems of some episodes scattered throughout this season that at least provide great moments. Carl's death episode, S8E9, Honor, is highly emotional and very sad. S8E10, The Lost and the Plunderers, has Simon annihilate the garbage people and Negan's letter from Carl is read. S8E13, Do Not Send Us Astray, has literally the only good battle with stakes against the Saviors and Hilltop with the walkers turning in their sleep after. S8E15, Worth, the opening moments reads Carl's letter to Rick, and Morgan and Rick finally work to kill Saviors and take out that one annoying Savior with long hair in a satisfying death. S8E16 brings the fall of Negan which is very satisfying to watch as well. Thrifty mentions S8E4, Just Some Guy, being good as well for King Ezekiel(the Kingdom is wiped out). I'll add S8E5 has great moments with Negan and Gabriel stuck together, and the Morales reveal is in this episode. So how exactly is this worse than S7 (which is far less interesting and far more boring with nothing happening, and has less entertainment value)?
I want to say I completely agree with you I think I look at s6 - 8 as like a really long trilogy kinda like when there was the governor s3/4 Felt like a chapter 1 and 2 But yeah overall season 7 and 8 ass The grief in season 7 is felt so I do like that
Omg I remember my brother and I cracking jokes about Carl's 180 all the time! "Dad, we need to fight them!! I'm so disappointed in you for not fighting back!!" two seconds later... "Dad!! We don't have to fight them!! We can coexist!! I'm so disappointed in you for not trying to find a peaceful resolution!!!" Oh and for a request! How about How I Met Your Mother? Been quite long enough for a retrospective and there's all that controversy with the ending to discuss!
What? They needed to fight back cause the saviors had complete control, but once the tide shifted and rick wanted to obliterate them, it makes sense that carl wouldnt want that either
The title 💀 Before watching, gotta say that this season just took many of the problems of season 7 and doubled down on them for the worse (seriously, what is up with the sound effects in this season lol). I remember there was actually a big deal made about it being stated that there would be less "bottle episodes" which...isn't super true. I understand there being smaller battles as build up to the bigger ones later, but it feels like there was very little stakes to the earlier ones, a lot of just mindless shooting without much substance to it. And of course...Carl's ending was an awful choice that truly led to the final three seasons straying away from the source material much more than ever before 💔
Seriously, like compare all the weight put behind the Governors attack on the Prison, Rick's speech, Hershel's death, Rick and the Governors fight, all the history and hatred between them. Yes the Savior war was justified because Negan killed Glenn and Abraham and to beat his regime, but everything just felt so limp and cartoonish. Even the Governors initial attack which was just them shooting the place up and bringing walkers in felt more impactful and badass
That was exactly my problem with season 8. Stuff happened, but at the same time nothing happened. Battles showed a bunch of unnamed characters getting gunned down or chomped on while the main characters had near miss after near miss. It felt so obvious that they were stretching for those 16 episodes and saving all the interesting stuff for the midseason and season finales. I really feel like season 8 could have been way better if it was shorter, ironically the exact opposite problem of Game of Thrones season 8
For whatever reason, I’ve never heard anyone connect the dots with Carl’s death and Morgan’s arc…. but it all makes perfect sense and I’m convinced you’ve hit the nail on the head with the changed plans there
I didn't read the comics in full, but I would research what happened in them, so I knew that Negan was put in a cell. As soon as I saw the episode where Morgan started building the cell, I instantly thought that he was set up to die and be the reason Rick spared Negan. But then they wrote the show very differently in that aspect. If Rick and Morgan had more interactions after "East", and if Morgan didn't enter clear mode again, it would have worked in my opinion.
If I'm being honest, the thing that hits hard the most is that season 8 had the potential to be possibly the best season of The Walking Dead. Sadly due to lazy writing, greed, and the dumbest decision ever to kill off Carl, this season blew basically every chance it had to be great and became the worst season ever of The Walking Dead.
Season 8 was definitely when I dropped off. I was a die hard fan until season 8. Like you said the pacing made it BORING to watch week to week & Carl's death was the nail in the coffin.
Rewatching the series again and finally pushing forward after Carl's death (I literally stopped watching after he saved that goober in the woods), Rick literally had zero motivation to move forward. Not only his legacy and purpose died with Carl, he has no future to keep anymore whatsoever. Judith is Shane's and that RJ will never surpass Carl. The entire TWD journey was a father and son throughout the apocalypse. Everything Rick did was for Carl. Man, I literally just bought the comics to see the best ending for Carl. Chandler Riggs was literally screwed by AMC and Gimple. We were robbed by an adult Carl guns a blazing at the Whisperers and Reapers. They could've still redeemed Negan if Carl was alive. Seeing that shot of Rick and young Carl walking after Rick slashed Negan's throat made me lose my cool. I sobbed like a baby, that scene personally struck a chord in me. There's no future anymore in that universe. That was so heartbreaking. I'm just on autopilot rewatching the show after that. Judith Skywalker won't do it for me, especially she's actually Shane's legacy.
It's crazy to me how we lost both Carl and Rick in the same year, obviously S8 started in 2017, but the 2nd half was in 2018, then S9 started later that year and we lost Rick, little did we know before going into S8 how everything would go so downhill.
You should do a video on the episode 18 Miles Out (Season 2 EP 10) because I feel like that really ties into this video retrospective. That was one of the first episodes where we saw a change in Rick, from being a man with morals to a man with none.
Agreed with the close up shots taking too long. There were also the close up shots of everyone during the mid season finale right before the last scene.
I stopped watching the show here, I remember I even liked season 7 chapters when everybody were saying it was boring (besides Tara’s chapter ugh) but season 8 just two episodes and it felt boring and lifeless already, then killing Carl was my limit (like when they killed Andrea but worse) and in such stupid way !! I hate how bad they treated the characters and the plot
I’d need to watch it first cause I never have but I’d probably just make one really long video about it. Perhaps a project for next year if other people wanna see it too 🤷🏻♂️
The 100 is actually a fairly good show from seasons 1-5. For a CW show anyway. Bellamy, Kane, Raven, Murphy, Jasper, Monty, Jaha, Octavia are all great characters. Funny when I started to watch that show I called it diet Game of Thrones and then because of how Game of Thrones turned out I ended up enjoying The 100 more.
i think that the carl killing was a majority financial/greed decision, as killing him, even if it made ricks arc feel more reasonable, was still insanely unreasonable and definitely not something you can get past very well
I might have accepted it had Carl’s letter to Neagan having some kind of impact on NEAGAN. Instead it affected Rick who then went on to piss everyone off by keeping Neagan alive. The letter didn’t need to stop the war, it just needed to give Neagan pause. Instead it Neagan doubled down. Just ridiculous.
i mean, yes... but these scenes looked so bad. they were firing at close range sometimes, still not hitting anything, people teleporting everywhere, it was horrendous.
HOW DARE YOU! Nah that’s completely reasonable it’s the same way I say I like season 6 the most despite that being a very flawed season 😂 Everyone’s got different tastes doesn’t make anyone more right than anyone else.
What angers me most about Season 8 MORE than Carl's death, is the flash forwards to 'A New Beginning.' Dont get me wrong, I was not excited for Rick to become handycapped, but if I had to choose between what we got now and ANB, then Im choosing ANB everytime. The fact that they bated us AGAIN is infuriating. Only to give us the slop we got. Though, I am not sure how Non-Comic fans would have reacted to 'Cane Rick', they probably would have complained about Rick not being as Bad Ass as before, but who knows. I know they needed to give Rick some sort of motivation to keep Negan alive, but you cant tell me Carl was the best answer.
one small thing, pretty sure the shooting of the windows was to create noise and draw walkers and also make it impossible to rest for the workers inside whilst the herd is outside. the plan was to starve them out, both emotionally and their resources. they knew from carl and dwight that the workers were only on the floor of the building and not up.
Pay had nothing to do with killing Coral off, Chandler and his dad have gone on record more than once to say that he was paid for the entirety of the 3 year contract he signed a few months before they killed his character off, he was literally paid by AMC to not work because Gimple couldn’t think of another way to make Rick change his mind (apart from the you know, dramatic, “I changed my mind” option. Personally I would have just written it so that the constant killing of other humans is what made him change his mind, but I’m not a writer, so….
Oh my god, THANK YOU. This is the first video I've seen that talks about the fact that Carl going from a dark and impulsive character to some king of guru of peace right before he dies makes NO SENSE!!! And that's something I realized immediately when watching, that never made sense to me. It felt really good to have this opinion of mine validated.
Season 8 had the potential to be the "everybody is a villain if you look from another perspective" season. Tbf this would make the season & the show even better. Also it could be the perfect opportunity to show us Negan's past, making the final fight between him and Rick more dramatic. (In my opinion)
What about how bad the scene is when The Savior has the military massive gun (Jesse Ventura's gun in Predator) on the back of the truck shooting many rounds at Rick in the jeep and it's just making small dents in the hood while just a little earlier that same gun from further away took out everybody from the Kingdom who was there except for Ezekial. BRUTAL
I remember season 8 being tiring and somewhat forgettable. it couldve been edited down a lot and we wouldnt have missed much. I did mind carl's death but it was kind of in vein when andrew left only a few episodes later in season 9.
I truly believe when Morgan was reintroduced in seasons 5-6, the plan was for him to be the big S8 death that would lead to Rick sparing Negan. I always noticed how Morgan literally built the cell that would eventually hold Negan. And it should have been Morgan and definitely not Carl. Somewhere around S7-8 this seemed to change when they had Morgan go back to clear mode in 7x13. I agree Rick and Morgan weren’t as close as a lot of fans believe them to be, but I think the writers should have given them more scenes in S6, like how the season was promoted. I think Morgan being the first person Rick met in the apocalypse, and one of the first people to save his life like Glenn, would have had an impact on him.
Agreed. I think people overplay the whole Morgan and RIck not being friends thing. While yes that's true, Morgan helped him at his lowest. Rick always remember that
Nothing bothered me about season 8 except Carl’s death. The kid who this whole show was about was taken out and that was so needless but looking back, I appreciate it more for Rick’s character journey as you said in the video. For the most part, I really liked season 8. I loved Simon vs Negan, Morgan going crazy again, Rick lying to those saviours, Dwight’s redemption, the massacre of the trash people, the final battle, Rick vs Negan’s car chase etc. it all seemed great to me then and it seems fine to me now. Sure, there’s issues but those issues and logic leaps we have to make but tbh, you have to do that for every season at some point. Admittedly, there’s a few more than normal in this season but I didn’t find it nearly as bad season 11 which is the worst season of TV ever made imo.
fr i liked season 8, Carls's death had me heated but other than that i feel like it was a good season. I can't believe people actually think this is the worst 1 cause like you said season 11 was straight up terrible, the only reason i watched it was cause i thought rick would come back but when it hit me that he wasn't i just felt like i wasted hours of my life watching story lines and characters i didn't care about at all
@@stanaklolik the comics, that’s why I was upset. But the show did this with Andrea and imo I prefer Michonne as his wife than I did Andrea in the comics. I hope the writers make it work out somehow, they’ve done it b4
@@charlessmith9753 !CONTAINS SPOILER FOR THE COMICS! damn, really? After reading the comics I felt like the TV show gutted Andrea's character. I really liked Andrea in the comics and her death was probably the saddest for me in the moment.
Fear The Walking Dead also has some episodes where it has the messed up editing as well where it jumps through time and you have no idea what's going on
In terms of the Carl/Morgan switch The only thing I know for a fact is that Lennie James confirmed on Talking Dead once I believe that he was given the choice of being killed off in Season 8 or going to Fear. The rest im not sure.
Things I like about S8 of TWD: - Rick arc is great - Ezekiel arc is good - Tainted weapons battle at Hilltop - Last episode was okay Things I don't like about TWD S8: - Gunfights are very bad - 90% of action doesn't matter, makes it really boring - Killed off Carl, who was the future of the show - Made 70% of war just the group killing Saviours - Everyone is kinda dumb and wasting ammo - Feels like a different show tbh - Daryl is kinda bad in this season 😞
looking foward to season 9!! its by far one of my favorite seasons. I will say you definitely have to talk about how hype the build up and payoff to the pikes was. I still get chills watching it
**HEAVY SPOILER WARNING for Game of Thrones S8 / TWD S8** Amazing video as always, Thrifty. You're like my only membership so im cool with showing a little extra support. Already having an amazing day and your video made it a little bit better. (P.S. Killing Carl (my fav) was 10x worse of a mistake than the last 3 episodes of Game of Thrones writing and Jamie Lannister is my favorite character) Also, please continue your GOT retrospective after TWD one is done
@@thethriftytypewriterDon’t gotta respond to me again since your probably editing right now or something, but I wanted to make it known that the reason I feel so strongly is because your opinions about the pieces of media you analyze on your channel are almost identical to mine, at least for TWD. Had the same experience as you growing up watching the walking dead and aging at a very similar pace to Chandler Riggs throughout the years. (99% sure you’re the one who said that) and S8 hit me the exact same way as it hit you. I have a feeling I’ll have a similar experience with your GOT retrospective.
@@CSB12004 just writing the script for GoT S2 but yeah I think a lot of people like us who kinda grew up with some of the younger characters in these shows felt a little (or a lot) let down, especially in TWDs case.
Wow this is a great video, your whole Morgan being swapped out for Carl theory seems incredibly solid the way you lay it out. To me it always seemed like there was something like that going on with Carl's death behind the scenes but I never figured out what it was, but his character transformation and sudden death seemed to come out of no where. Plus Chandler and his family have spoken about how they just bought a new house to be closer to the set and I believe I heard Chandler had just skipped his first year of college too to keep filming the show, both just before they got the bad news. It all makes sense if it happened like this though with the last second swap out death
also to add about never ending bullets and the unrealistic nature of the show… by season 8 i grew completely tired and done with them using cars so often that it seems like they just go and fill up the cars at the gas stations as if they were in a normal world
Even without killing Carl, It amazes me that as a comic fan where the all-out war was one of the most intense. Crazy brutal 40 pieces of tactical chest that I've seen in a zombie film or even a comic book story that's not written by Grant Morrison how they took all that amazing stuff and somehow in the TV show made it boring.
It’s a real shame what streaming did to this show and shows in general. AMC really did have their hand forced by fans wanting more content and streamable content and that’s what they delivered. They had to clear the hurdle of a pretty awful viewing experience for those of us who watched it week to week and it’s pretty clear they overestimated the effect that would have on the show and its fandom. Rewatching season 8 now and there are some parts that are absolutely awesome. Just a testament to the acting, (sometimes) the writing, and the storylines the showrunners put together. It’s a shame it never came to fruition as it should have.
That's so possible Morgan was meant to die. Killing Carl was just wrong. We never got that comic version in the Whisperer arc but it's whatever. AMC just fumbled hard. Prob the worst season ever and Fear was also never the same after s3. Truly a shame
A few months ago I finally decided to watch past season 6 and finish the show and I actually ended up living the show even more than I ever did . I heard from a few people that the first few season of fear the walking dead was good and I watched 2 1\2 seasons and I absolutely hated all of it. I could keep watching. It felt like the show didn’t want u to like any of the characters
Fun fact: I thought when they were shooting at the glass they were making it so anyone cut their feet when they walked out. It wasn't until THIS VIDEO that I realized there were people way up there. Also this is my favorite RUclips series rn. Love this stuff thrifty!
I would honestly love for you to tie in Fear The Walking Dead in your analysis after you're done with Season 9. I've thoroughly enjoyed all your commentaries on TWD and I think it would be amazing
LOL great video title. I have a lot of gripes with the season but I really like that EP1 Mercy comes before EP16 Wrath. At least that title idea had some soul along with the Flashforwards
as an 11 y/o when season 7 came out, watching it with my family week to week it is still one of my fav seasons. And season 8 in my memory was very similar. I havent rewatched it since then but thse videos have made me want to rewatch and see if ill like it or agree with your opinions a little more. Loved the video cant wait to see you shit on seasons i never watched.
The last two seasons are the worst, I'm not saying season 8 is a masterpiece, but compared to the final two seasons it looks like Nolan & Scorsese quality. You quite literally said "I wasn't going to subject my girlfriend to watch this entire season, so we watched a few important moments, and we are on to season 9."
I've talked about Morgan originally being the one who was supposed to die all the way back when Rick found out Carl was bit. It was so obvious. Before Carl was bit I was saying that Morgan is gonna be the one who convinces Rick to keep Negan alive because Morgan was going on about mercy and he built Negans cell so it was super obvious and then when Carl was bit I started commenting that Morgan was clearly supposed to be the person who died.
The funny thing about it is that the time these were coming out, they were looked at as the best seasons. The hype was massive. I feel like a lot of fans couldn't get over the deaths of glenn and carl. Not to mention, plus the world was changing with the rise of streaming & smartphones becoming way more prevalent, Then they were when the show first started. I feel like this really affected the show because they didn't know what direction to take it in. A lot of shows suffered from this.
I didn't even care about Carl at the time, but I thought killing him was so weird and bad for the story they were building since the beginning that this was the last season I watched. I think I started S09 but lost interest after two episodes. So I'm just gonna wait for your videos about the last seasons.
I used to make Walking Dead Sunday an event. After season 8, I started just recording it on DVR and watching later. I tried watching Fear all the way to the end, but I just couldn't. It was so boring and weird near the end of its run.
YES! I agree with everything you said about Carl's death and how it was originally going to be Morgan. I have made all of these exact points before. The foundation was definitely laid out for this in season 6 (even in "Here's Not Here" ). Plans changed (obviously) and this is how Morgan ended up on Fear. It does make me wonder how they would have made all the pieces connect with the two of them getting so little screen time together in seasons 7 and 8, but there is no doubt, they laid the groundwork in S6. I truly believe the initial plan was to kill Morgan off in season 8 and when they decided to go a different way they just moved him to Fear since they had no plans for him post All out War
4 Ways To Make Seasons 7-8 Work: 1. 10 Episodes Each (Fixes Pacing/Bad Editing) 2 . Never have Morgan give up on his no kill rule. 3. Build the relationship between Rick and Morgan to eventually have Morgan die at the mid point of 8. 4. Get rid of Garbage People and Ocean Side. Literally the worst group of characters in the entire show.
Killing Carl just cut the core of the show and what it was about to deep.
The walking dead was always at its centre the story of Rick grime’s finding his son, and then trying to build a world for his son so he could go on to live.
Carl was always supposed to outlive Rick, he was supposed to inherit this world.
And yeah there was Judith, but her survival doesn’t represent the same thing. Judith was born into this world, she is a product of it.
Carl was supposed to be the survivor, the last man standing. The one who saw what the world was before, and the one who saw what the world was after.
He wasn’t supposed to be the hero, he was supposed to be the witness. The story teller. The one who would carry on the story of the bloody beautiful horrifying gritty efforts that went into carving out the society he would see be built.
He was supposed to witness the collapse of civilisation and the rebirth of civilisation.
The show killed Carl without realising they had nobody else to replace him with. Every child born before the apocalypse was killed. Ron, Enid, Carl, Sophia.
And In this way, there were no survivors.
Too bad they tried to be atleast slightly realistic unlike stranger things and kill off a core character and not save them with plot armour
Omg this was actually beautiful said couldn't of said better by anyone else
I guess this is a controversial opinion but I really don't mind that Carl was killed off, Chandler Riggs wasn't good enough of an actor for a bigger role. Don't get me wrong he had some great moments but it's still bad compared to the great actors the show has like Andy and Jeffrey. I don't get it either, he was better when he was younger and got worse as he aged.
@mattnar3865 My overall impression of young Carl was: wrong place, wrong time, do something stupid punchline. "Scram, kid."
@@John-ei1uhwhen your following source material making massive deviations that make adapting future plot lines harder is a really bad idea
I wasn't a Carl fan, but killing him was a terrible, horrible decision.
Agreed
Just did a rewatch, it was some sad ass dialogue though. He wrote them all a letter but they don't go into it like they set up that they might. Was pretty strange.
@ they read the letters later. Michonne read Neagan’s to him. It was pretty lame.
Yeah, that whole letter writing thing was crap. It was very, very out of character for Carl. It was so frustrating when the writing became so consistently bad.
@ 🤣 Carl went so quickly from shooting up a bunch of Saviors to, “We can make peace and all live happily ever after.” I’ll just write some letters and that’ll do the trick. I think they decided, “ Nope we don’t want to pay Chandler more money. Let’s kill him off. How can we do that?” He didn’t even go out heroically.
Bringing back Morales just to kill him off literally within the same scene really summarizes the latter seasons of TWD: Lots of artificial hype, terrible execution, and abandoning plot lines and not doing characters any justice.
You say latter seasons but it's really only s8 and s11 and most of that is due to AMC interference. The writing isn't great either don't get me wrong, but I'll defend them that the studio backs them into a corner (s11 mostly, I have no defence of s8 at all I can't even rewatch it)
@@jebus89 Season 10 is the worst to me
The hype was definitely real. It was getting more ratings than the nfl at one point. despite the hindsight hate, the season had everyone talking about it. You couldn't get away from it.
@@MistahJay7season 10 is one of the best, the fuck you mean?
@@timoplays478 The only good thing about Season 10 is Negan. Jeffery Dean Morgan has been carrying The corpse of TWD franchise on his back for the last 8 years tbh. Series would be completely dead if not for him. Everything else about Season 10 and 11 feels like Marvel writing and the show doesn't feel like it's for adults anymore and more targeted towards younger teenagers.
Game of thrones, Dexter, The Office and The walking dead worst season is the 8th one 😂😂😂😂
The Curse of Season 8 would make for a good video 🤔
every 8th season of a show is just awful 😭 dexter’s series finale was just straight up horrendous
@@thethriftytypewriterMake a vid on Dexter plz
The Office Season 9 is a much worse season only saved by the finale, Season 8 first half has a lot of bangers.
Arrow Season 8 is great.
Supernatural Season 8 is great, etc.
The season 8 curse
Killing Morgan instead would’ve saved this franchise. It’s crazy to see how one catastrophic change absolutely destroys an entire series. Smh 🤦♂️ 😢
Nah he should've lived, they just...needed to give him better writing.
@@sanfordrussell8549 You’re not wrong.
Morgan dying would of been amazing but instead they put him on Fear🤢
Not only one show, but another show as well
Morgan wouldn’t have had the same effect. Yeah, Morgan was the first person Rick met out of the hospital and he showed him how things are now, but that wouldn’t have made him change his mind like Carl did. Carl was the driving force for changing for the better and uniting the communities. Seeing all the innocent people at the sanctuary after following Negan back was what changed his mind about them. If it wasn’t for that, Rick would’ve wiped them all out and never united everyone.
Carl's death was the biggest WTF moment I've ever seen watching TV. It pretty much solidified my belief that AMC was just trying to get people to come back next week. Absolutely terrible call.
It's crazy cuz I was like, finally, they got rid of the most annoying character.
You mean come back after the 2 month break b/c carls bite reveal was the mid season cliffhanger😂 I remember reading comments during the break talking abt Carl being immune or getting some kind of skin transfusion/ replacement chest. It was such a wild time 😂
I always wondered why they made such a big deal about Carl writing a letter to Neagan to have Neagan just disregard it. That was so stupid.
This was the season that did it for my wife and me. We stopped watching when Carl was killed off and the rumors of Rick dying. We have never picked this show up again. Mind you, we watched it from the beginning, Season 1 episode 1. We used to watch The Talking Dead recap right after. We were 100% about Sunday nights. Then this season happened, and killed it all.
I could never find a way to watch Talking Dead back then, how did they actually talk about the episode after it aired? 😅
love how you said your wife and you
And that's the grander issue. It didn't HAVE to be bad. Hastily killing characters is NEVER a good idea. The writing was abysmal in S7 through 8.
man of recaps is the only channel keeping me connected to the series
16:45 FINALLY someone talks about that.
Morgan going to FearTWD caused Carl to die. That crossover was so badly done that it killed both shows. I am actually impressed that Gimple was able to ruin the universe with one single decition.
I’m still pissed at what they did to Fear. Ruined it all with a pointless crossover that did nothing but kill the show right when it was starting to get positive traction.
If Rick wasn't the main character, the next logical choice was his son. Carl grew from a kid to a young adult in the apocalypse...and then he just dies in the stupidest way possible. Then in Season 9, Rick leaves the show and there was just no point to it anymore.
I remember before he died. Carl was one of the most hated characters on the show. It just blows my mind. How many people we're offended by it. My gripe isn't them killing him off. It was the execution.
Season 8 is without a doubt the worst season, but imo 8x16 and the “my mercy prevails over my wrath” scene is one of the best scenes in the show. It was like a culmination of Rick’s journey until that point. Too bad how we got there frankly sucked
Should have been the ending imo :/
@@gamewriteeye769hot take a a ending i tend to think about for the show is season 6 and just imagining negan killing rick in the line up, like ricks overconfidence led to his own death, and also a bit of a dark ending aswell
@@ragingpatty1106 Not an ending. S8 ended Rick's character arc. That's when it wraps up. The first 5 episodes of s9 are an epilogue to Rick. Killing Rick at the lineup halts his character progression. Not a hot take, but a tragic take that makes Glenn's death look civil compared to the fans reaction this would garner.
I’m baffled that anyone thinks season 8 is worse than 10 or 11
@@J87Leese Personally I felt 10 was mostly good (Covid/10c episodes I thought were just boring aside from the Negan one and the Aaron/FG one) S11 I thought was just there… not bad at all aside from how little the CW felt.
Chandler Riggs also didn’t expect the characters death. He bought a house in GA so he could go to college and still do the show.
Right?! They did him dirty
Because I don’t here his name here: Carl was killed off because of Scott Gimple. There is no debate. He was the showerunner during season 8, and what likely happened due to everything he said: He killed off Carl because he didn’t wanna pay him more and also he has said that he loved Morgan and didn’t want him to die. This change got him INCREDIBLE hate and he got fired and became the fear show runner. He brought over Morgan, and fired the previous showerunners and hired new ones who butchered the entire concept of the show. He single-handedly ruined TWD and Fear because of how fucking petty he is.
No wonder Fear TWD turned into absolute trash. I honestly hate Morgan
@@blueguy2128 No no, Morgan’s a good written character in most of his appearances. He’s a good concept and well acted, any issues with him are due to writers.
@@Afish8me2china idc if he's a good character to others. I never liked him after he went insane. He's annoying and stupid. He should be dead. Dude gets old fast and was never enjoyable to watch on screen for me outside of the first episode.
It really is crazy how so much of the bad of this franchise is directly associated with gimple. Actual goober.
@@wisegamer706happens more often than we realize with many different things
I still remember the few weeks after the "carl's been bit" reveal and how the most wild and insane theories like "carl's immune" "this is how they save the world, Carl's the cure". the community went into insane theory mode because that made more sense at the time than Carl dying.
It was a change that did ruin the show for me, I liked it after but no where near as much. I got over carl until "the ones who live" where Rick breaks down about missing carl and then we see RJ (who is the most pointless twd character of all time) and you just think "yeah... this woulda been 1000x more impactful if Carl lived and we saw him and Rick reunite instead"
I think they could have made the original plan for Morgan to be the one to die work, via one simple tweak: have it effect Carl. This would have required the writers to have laid the groundwork for their relationship in Season 6, namely by having them interact more and Morgan taking on a mentor role to Carl, more or less becoming for Carl what Eastman was for him. He notices how awkward Carl seems around kids his own age; he guesses that it's because of the things Carl's experienced outside of Alexandria, and maybe that he can't reconcile the things he's had to do to survive with what life is like inside Alexandria's walls. At this time, he gives Carl "The Way of Peace", and offers to talk anytime he needs it.
Flashforward to after the mega herd, and Morgan is teaching Carl how to fight with a staff to make up for his loss of an eye and marksmanship - Carl's not completely useless with a gun now, his aim just isn't as reliable. At this point they're having deep conversations about "The Way of Peace", and while Carl likes a lot of what it says, he doesn't think it will always work. He wants to be able to bring people back, like he was, like Rick was, but he never wants that to endanger his family; maybe he talks about how he shot that Woodbury teenager in Season 3, and how everything he's seen since then (Terminus, the Claimers, the Wolves) has made him go back to thinking that he did the right thing. Morgan admits that he hasn't had to worry about that because he's already lost the people he had to lose, but then repeats "When there's life, there's possibility." And for bonus points, maybe Carl asks him Morgan if he still feels like he has no one left to lose.
I think some minor tweaks like this would have helped Carl's transformation make more sense, while giving a little more depth to Morgan as a character and his impact on the narrative. When Morgan's mortally injured during the midseason finale and then dies, here it's Carl who's most heavily affected; maybe he even takes up Morgan's staff. Throughout 8B, while Rick is still focused on his fury and bringing Negan down, Carl is shaken to his core and torn between wanting revenge for his mentor's death, and wanting to honor his teachings. At some point during 8B, Carl and Rick could have a conversation about Shane and the way things turned out with him. Carl could quote Morgan (life, possibility) and ask his dad if they could have brought Shane back from the brink, wouldn't he want to have his best friend back?
When it comes to Rick's final showdown with Negan, it can start off more or less like it did in the show as we got it, but turns out more like their final confrontation from the comic, where Rick actually talks Negan down by saying how they should be pooling their resources to fight against the Walkers, the real enemy. Then he slashes Negan and calls for Siddiq to save him. Rick repeats what he said for his own side to hear, to emphasize that the war is over - Negan's reign is over, the Saviors aren't their enemies anymore, and, as the living, they need to stand together against the dead. When Negan wakes up in his cell, it's Rick and Carl talking to him, telling him how he's going to watch them build a new world from inside that cell. Then instead of that memory of Rick walking with a young Carl, we get a flashback to Season 6 when Rick told Carl "I want to show you the new world", both building off the preceding scene, and giving context to Rick coming around to Carl's wish to spare Negan.
Through all of this, not only has the show made the most of Morgan and Lennie James's time on the show by making basically everything to follow a tribute to his character, but they've put Carl through a character arc that sets him up to take a more prominent role in the show moving forward, and fortuitously get to keep him around to step into Rick's shoes should Andrew Lincoln still decide to walk away from the show to spend more time with his family. They also potentially save Fear the Walking Dead by not importing Morgan and completely shifting the show's entire tone, though that may rely just as much on not hiring Chambliss & Goldberg to replace Erickson as the showrunner(s).
Thank you to those who made it all the way to the end - you're troopers.
This would've been absolutely amazing if the show went this way! I wish you were one of the main writers back then 🤣
Ftwd being bad isnt about morgan
@@eli_da_man_that would have made for a good story. ❤
@@Klomkia47218I agree. Morgan’s entrance didn’t have to kill the show. The writers not being able to integrate Morgan was the bigger problem.
I hated all of season 8. At least season 7 had maybe 1 or 2 episodes that were alright. All Out War needed fewer episodes and a higher budget.
All out war was more like pew pew compilation
All out war was exactly as long as it needed to be. The comic arc was 12 issues or 2 volumes long. It needed a whole season to be told and show the scope of how long the war was.
How? There's real gems of some episodes scattered throughout this season that at least provide great moments.
Carl's death episode, S8E9, Honor, is highly emotional and very sad.
S8E10, The Lost and the Plunderers, has Simon annihilate the garbage people and Negan's letter from Carl is read.
S8E13, Do Not Send Us Astray, has literally the only good battle with stakes against the Saviors and Hilltop with the walkers turning in their sleep after.
S8E15, Worth, the opening moments reads Carl's letter to Rick, and Morgan and Rick finally work to kill Saviors and take out that one annoying Savior with long hair in a satisfying death.
S8E16 brings the fall of Negan which is very satisfying to watch as well.
Thrifty mentions S8E4, Just Some Guy, being good as well for King Ezekiel(the Kingdom is wiped out).
I'll add S8E5 has great moments with Negan and Gabriel stuck together, and the Morales reveal is in this episode.
So how exactly is this worse than S7 (which is far less interesting and far more boring with nothing happening, and has less entertainment value)?
I want to say I completely agree with you
I think I look at s6 - 8 as like a really long trilogy kinda like when there was the governor s3/4
Felt like a chapter 1 and 2
But yeah overall season 7 and 8 ass
The grief in season 7 is felt so I do like that
@@BoogSReviewspfff it absolutely did not
Morgan should have died, and Madison should've continued leading FEAR. Gimple is a fool.
Gimple is shite. Totally ruined this show
Omg I remember my brother and I cracking jokes about Carl's 180 all the time! "Dad, we need to fight them!! I'm so disappointed in you for not fighting back!!" two seconds later... "Dad!! We don't have to fight them!! We can coexist!! I'm so disappointed in you for not trying to find a peaceful resolution!!!"
Oh and for a request! How about How I Met Your Mother? Been quite long enough for a retrospective and there's all that controversy with the ending to discuss!
What? They needed to fight back cause the saviors had complete control, but once the tide shifted and rick wanted to obliterate them, it makes sense that carl wouldnt want that either
Them shooting at the windows is probably one of the most infamous scenes in all of the walking dead
The title 💀 Before watching, gotta say that this season just took many of the problems of season 7 and doubled down on them for the worse (seriously, what is up with the sound effects in this season lol). I remember there was actually a big deal made about it being stated that there would be less "bottle episodes" which...isn't super true.
I understand there being smaller battles as build up to the bigger ones later, but it feels like there was very little stakes to the earlier ones, a lot of just mindless shooting without much substance to it. And of course...Carl's ending was an awful choice that truly led to the final three seasons straying away from the source material much more than ever before 💔
Seriously, like compare all the weight put behind the Governors attack on the Prison, Rick's speech, Hershel's death, Rick and the Governors fight, all the history and hatred between them. Yes the Savior war was justified because Negan killed Glenn and Abraham and to beat his regime, but everything just felt so limp and cartoonish. Even the Governors initial attack which was just them shooting the place up and bringing walkers in felt more impactful and badass
That was exactly my problem with season 8. Stuff happened, but at the same time nothing happened. Battles showed a bunch of unnamed characters getting gunned down or chomped on while the main characters had near miss after near miss. It felt so obvious that they were stretching for those 16 episodes and saving all the interesting stuff for the midseason and season finales. I really feel like season 8 could have been way better if it was shorter, ironically the exact opposite problem of Game of Thrones season 8
For whatever reason, I’ve never heard anyone connect the dots with Carl’s death and Morgan’s arc…. but it all makes perfect sense and I’m convinced you’ve hit the nail on the head with the changed plans there
I didn't read the comics in full, but I would research what happened in them, so I knew that Negan was put in a cell. As soon as I saw the episode where Morgan started building the cell, I instantly thought that he was set up to die and be the reason Rick spared Negan. But then they wrote the show very differently in that aspect. If Rick and Morgan had more interactions after "East", and if Morgan didn't enter clear mode again, it would have worked in my opinion.
Agreed. Don't know why everyone acts like they had to switch it up. There was two seasons worth of episodes to do something creative to make it work.
If I'm being honest, the thing that hits hard the most is that season 8 had the potential to be possibly the best season of The Walking Dead. Sadly due to lazy writing, greed, and the dumbest decision ever to kill off Carl, this season blew basically every chance it had to be great and became the worst season ever of The Walking Dead.
Season 7 and 8 should have been one season.
That would have made sense. I got so tired of the Saviors. Had I not been bingeing the show I would have given up on the show.
All I remember from the first half of the season is the constant sounds of gunfire
Season 8 was definitely when I dropped off. I was a die hard fan until season 8.
Like you said the pacing made it BORING to watch week to week & Carl's death was the nail in the coffin.
Rewatching the series again and finally pushing forward after Carl's death (I literally stopped watching after he saved that goober in the woods), Rick literally had zero motivation to move forward. Not only his legacy and purpose died with Carl, he has no future to keep anymore whatsoever. Judith is Shane's and that RJ will never surpass Carl. The entire TWD journey was a father and son throughout the apocalypse. Everything Rick did was for Carl. Man, I literally just bought the comics to see the best ending for Carl. Chandler Riggs was literally screwed by AMC and Gimple. We were robbed by an adult Carl guns a blazing at the Whisperers and Reapers. They could've still redeemed Negan if Carl was alive.
Seeing that shot of Rick and young Carl walking after Rick slashed Negan's throat made me lose my cool. I sobbed like a baby, that scene personally struck a chord in me. There's no future anymore in that universe. That was so heartbreaking. I'm just on autopilot rewatching the show after that. Judith Skywalker won't do it for me, especially she's actually Shane's legacy.
3:28 BRO FR. I remember watching this episode with my brother who had previously seen the series and being *convinced* we skipped an episode
I really miss Michael Rooker as Merle 😢
The Thrifty Typewriter, awesome content
Thanks man ✊🏻
The Sopranos showed the way: 5 seasons max, then it’s over
Sopranos has 6 seasons… and the sixth is double length, so basically 7
Erm no it doesn't
@@drewmantia I’m gonna need you to get ALL the way off my back about such pedantry
@@tipsyXtwoI don't think correcting someone on a number when the number is the basis of their point counts as pedantry
@@malachiatkinson7245 I stand by what I said
Sheeva died in season 8 😢
It's crazy to me how we lost both Carl and Rick in the same year, obviously S8 started in 2017, but the 2nd half was in 2018, then S9 started later that year and we lost Rick, little did we know before going into S8 how everything would go so downhill.
Gimple REALLY put his name all over the season
You should do a video on the episode 18 Miles Out (Season 2 EP 10) because I feel like that really ties into this video retrospective. That was one of the first episodes where we saw a change in Rick, from being a man with morals to a man with none.
I agree. I miss those episode reviews. Thrifty mentioned a while back that he wanted to do 18 Miles Out and Made to Suffer. I would love to see those.
Agreed with the close up shots taking too long. There were also the close up shots of everyone during the mid season finale right before the last scene.
I stopped watching the show here, I remember I even liked season 7 chapters when everybody were saying it was boring (besides Tara’s chapter ugh) but season 8 just two episodes and it felt boring and lifeless already, then killing Carl was my limit (like when they killed Andrea but worse) and in such stupid way !! I hate how bad they treated the characters and the plot
The 100 needs to be covered. You’d kill it
I’d need to watch it first cause I never have but I’d probably just make one really long video about it. Perhaps a project for next year if other people wanna see it too 🤷🏻♂️
I really liked the first season, the show is perfect thrifty typewriter material
Season 5 of that show is some of my most favorite television ever.
Hail Blodreina
The 100 is actually a fairly good show from seasons 1-5. For a CW show anyway. Bellamy, Kane, Raven, Murphy, Jasper, Monty, Jaha, Octavia are all great characters. Funny when I started to watch that show I called it diet Game of Thrones and then because of how Game of Thrones turned out I ended up enjoying The 100 more.
@@MistahJay7 The final scene of season 5 would have been the perfect place for them to end the show.
i think that the carl killing was a majority financial/greed decision, as killing him, even if it made ricks arc feel more reasonable, was still insanely unreasonable and definitely not something you can get past very well
I might have accepted it had Carl’s letter to Neagan having some kind of impact on NEAGAN. Instead it affected Rick who then went on to piss everyone off by keeping Neagan alive. The letter didn’t need to stop the war, it just needed to give Neagan pause. Instead it Neagan doubled down. Just ridiculous.
in defense of most bullets not hitting the target. that is still the case in real life modern combat.
i mean, yes... but these scenes looked so bad. they were firing at close range sometimes, still not hitting anything, people teleporting everywhere, it was horrendous.
I like season 8. I have no logical basis for that haha i just find it fun for whatever reason. Its definitely the worst season though
HOW DARE YOU! Nah that’s completely reasonable it’s the same way I say I like season 6 the most despite that being a very flawed season 😂 Everyone’s got different tastes doesn’t make anyone more right than anyone else.
Same I just enjoy it for some reason
Sometimes i wondered if gimple was trying his hardest to kill the franchise with this season
What angers me most about Season 8 MORE than Carl's death, is the flash forwards to 'A New Beginning.' Dont get me wrong, I was not excited for Rick to become handycapped, but if I had to choose between what we got now and ANB, then Im choosing ANB everytime. The fact that they bated us AGAIN is infuriating. Only to give us the slop we got. Though, I am not sure how Non-Comic fans would have reacted to 'Cane Rick', they probably would have complained about Rick not being as Bad Ass as before, but who knows. I know they needed to give Rick some sort of motivation to keep Negan alive, but you cant tell me Carl was the best answer.
one small thing, pretty sure the shooting of the windows was to create noise and draw walkers and also make it impossible to rest for the workers inside whilst the herd is outside. the plan was to starve them out, both emotionally and their resources. they knew from carl and dwight that the workers were only on the floor of the building and not up.
Pay had nothing to do with killing Coral off, Chandler and his dad have gone on record more than once to say that he was paid for the entirety of the 3 year contract he signed a few months before they killed his character off, he was literally paid by AMC to not work because Gimple couldn’t think of another way to make Rick change his mind (apart from the you know, dramatic, “I changed my mind” option. Personally I would have just written it so that the constant killing of other humans is what made him change his mind, but I’m not a writer, so….
I didn’t know they paid Chandler anyway. I agree that there were plenty of ways to change Rick’s mind. Carl could have done it.
Oh my god, THANK YOU. This is the first video I've seen that talks about the fact that Carl going from a dark and impulsive character to some king of guru of peace right before he dies makes NO SENSE!!! And that's something I realized immediately when watching, that never made sense to me. It felt really good to have this opinion of mine validated.
Season 8 is absolutely garbage
Still better than 10 and 11
@@J87Leesehow so?
This is the season I stop being excited for new episodes for years 😅
Season 8 is the most boring season of any tv show I've ever seen. Season 10 is right behind.
Season 8 had the potential to be the "everybody is a villain if you look from another perspective" season. Tbf this would make the season & the show even better. Also it could be the perfect opportunity to show us Negan's past, making the final fight between him and Rick more dramatic. (In my opinion)
What about how bad the scene is when The Savior has the military massive gun (Jesse Ventura's gun in Predator) on the back of the truck shooting many rounds at Rick in the jeep and it's just making small dents in the hood while just a little earlier that same gun from further away took out everybody from the Kingdom who was there except for Ezekial. BRUTAL
Thanks for this trip down memory lane over a couple hrs vs months! Just watched all of these for the walking dead and it was great
Thanks!
I remember season 8 being tiring and somewhat forgettable. it couldve been edited down a lot and we wouldnt have missed much. I did mind carl's death but it was kind of in vein when andrew left only a few episodes later in season 9.
I truly believe when Morgan was reintroduced in seasons 5-6, the plan was for him to be the big S8 death that would lead to Rick sparing Negan. I always noticed how Morgan literally built the cell that would eventually hold Negan. And it should have been Morgan and definitely not Carl. Somewhere around S7-8 this seemed to change when they had Morgan go back to clear mode in 7x13. I agree Rick and Morgan weren’t as close as a lot of fans believe them to be, but I think the writers should have given them more scenes in S6, like how the season was promoted. I think Morgan being the first person Rick met in the apocalypse, and one of the first people to save his life like Glenn, would have had an impact on him.
Agreed. I think people overplay the whole Morgan and RIck not being friends thing. While yes that's true, Morgan helped him at his lowest. Rick always remember that
Congrats on about to hitting 200k!
next show should be Fear The Walking Dead 21:31
and go absolutely ham on post season 3.. those seasons were so bad it was laughable
@@Narc0YT I forced myself all the way until season 7, the bullshit that happened in the season 6 finale was horse shit.
You should make a RUclips short out of 5:11 to 5:20 called "Daryl gets a max ammo" it could do pretty well!
Nothing bothered me about season 8 except Carl’s death. The kid who this whole show was about was taken out and that was so needless but looking back, I appreciate it more for Rick’s character journey as you said in the video. For the most part, I really liked season 8. I loved Simon vs Negan, Morgan going crazy again, Rick lying to those saviours, Dwight’s redemption, the massacre of the trash people, the final battle, Rick vs Negan’s car chase etc. it all seemed great to me then and it seems fine to me now. Sure, there’s issues but those issues and logic leaps we have to make but tbh, you have to do that for every season at some point. Admittedly, there’s a few more than normal in this season but I didn’t find it nearly as bad season 11 which is the worst season of TV ever made imo.
fr i liked season 8, Carls's death had me heated but other than that i feel like it was a good season. I can't believe people actually think this is the worst 1 cause like you said season 11 was straight up terrible, the only reason i watched it was cause i thought rick would come back but when it hit me that he wasn't i just felt like i wasted hours of my life watching story lines and characters i didn't care about at all
If you are/were upset abou Carl dying, you should read the comics :)
@@stanaklolik the comics, that’s why I was upset. But the show did this with Andrea and imo I prefer Michonne as his wife than I did Andrea in the comics. I hope the writers make it work out somehow, they’ve done it b4
@@charlessmith9753
!CONTAINS SPOILER FOR THE COMICS!
damn, really? After reading the comics I felt like the TV show gutted Andrea's character. I really liked Andrea in the comics and her death was probably the saddest for me in the moment.
S7 and S8 should have been consolidated into one season. WAY too much bloat.
Oh, yeah, and the killing off of Coral…
This was the season of the show I stopped watching. The episode Carl died was the last episode I watched. I miss TWD
"I Lied"
Me: YOU LIAR!
Yo, the title had me rolling on the ground 😂
5:29 Darryl got a max ammo😂😂😂😂😂😂
I mentally left a 2nd like on the video when that happened 😆
Fear The Walking Dead also has some episodes where it has the messed up editing as well where it jumps through time and you have no idea what's going on
Just checking in, where’s Season 9?
In terms of the Carl/Morgan switch
The only thing I know for a fact is that Lennie James confirmed on Talking Dead once I believe that he was given the choice of being killed off in Season 8 or going to Fear. The rest im not sure.
Things I like about S8 of TWD:
- Rick arc is great
- Ezekiel arc is good
- Tainted weapons battle at Hilltop
- Last episode was okay
Things I don't like about TWD S8:
- Gunfights are very bad
- 90% of action doesn't matter, makes it really boring
- Killed off Carl, who was the future of the show
- Made 70% of war just the group killing Saviours
- Everyone is kinda dumb and wasting ammo
- Feels like a different show tbh
- Daryl is kinda bad in this season 😞
looking foward to season 9!! its by far one of my favorite seasons. I will say you definitely have to talk about how hype the build up and payoff to the pikes was. I still get chills watching it
**HEAVY SPOILER WARNING for Game of Thrones S8 / TWD S8** Amazing video as always, Thrifty. You're like my only membership so im cool with showing a little extra support. Already having an amazing day and your video made it a little bit better.
(P.S. Killing Carl (my fav) was 10x worse of a mistake than the last 3 episodes of Game of Thrones writing and Jamie Lannister is my favorite character)
Also, please continue your GOT retrospective after TWD one is done
Thanks a ton my dude! And don’t you worry the GoT retrospectives will continue. Next one coming on Saturday!
@@thethriftytypewriter Hell yeah, been wanting a GOT retrospective from you for a while even though I've seen a dozen others.
@@thethriftytypewriterDon’t gotta respond to me again since your probably editing right now or something, but I wanted to make it known that the reason I feel so strongly is because your opinions about the pieces of media you analyze on your channel are almost identical to mine, at least for TWD. Had the same experience as you growing up watching the walking dead and aging at a very similar pace to Chandler Riggs throughout the years. (99% sure you’re the one who said that) and S8 hit me the exact same way as it hit you. I have a feeling I’ll have a similar experience with your GOT retrospective.
@@CSB12004 just writing the script for GoT S2 but yeah I think a lot of people like us who kinda grew up with some of the younger characters in these shows felt a little (or a lot) let down, especially in TWDs case.
@@thethriftytypewriter Perfectly stated. I’ve bugged you enough, have a great rest of your evening.
Wow this is a great video, your whole Morgan being swapped out for Carl theory seems incredibly solid the way you lay it out. To me it always seemed like there was something like that going on with Carl's death behind the scenes but I never figured out what it was, but his character transformation and sudden death seemed to come out of no where. Plus Chandler and his family have spoken about how they just bought a new house to be closer to the set and I believe I heard Chandler had just skipped his first year of college too to keep filming the show, both just before they got the bad news. It all makes sense if it happened like this though with the last second swap out death
also to add about never ending bullets and the unrealistic nature of the show…
by season 8 i grew completely tired and done with them using cars so often that it seems like they just go and fill up the cars at the gas stations as if they were in a normal world
Carl's death is one of the worst decisions I have seen in any tv show.
You uploaded this while i was watching on of your videos😭🙏
Even without killing Carl, It amazes me that as a comic fan where the all-out war was one of the most intense. Crazy brutal 40 pieces of tactical chest that I've seen in a zombie film or even a comic book story that's not written by Grant Morrison how they took all that amazing stuff and somehow in the TV show made it boring.
Hahaha, I was waiting for this title 😂😂
At some point when the ammunition became an afterthought I checked out.
It’s a real shame what streaming did to this show and shows in general. AMC really did have their hand forced by fans wanting more content and streamable content and that’s what they delivered. They had to clear the hurdle of a pretty awful viewing experience for those of us who watched it week to week and it’s pretty clear they overestimated the effect that would have on the show and its fandom. Rewatching season 8 now and there are some parts that are absolutely awesome. Just a testament to the acting, (sometimes) the writing, and the storylines the showrunners put together. It’s a shame it never came to fruition as it should have.
That's so possible Morgan was meant to die. Killing Carl was just wrong. We never got that comic version in the Whisperer arc but it's whatever. AMC just fumbled hard. Prob the worst season ever and Fear was also never the same after s3. Truly a shame
that morgan analogy makes so much sense
1:18 I do wanna say they weren’t trying to kill any1 in that scene
A few months ago I finally decided to watch past season 6 and finish the show and I actually ended up living the show even more than I ever did . I heard from a few people that the first few season of fear the walking dead was good and I watched 2 1\2 seasons and I absolutely hated all of it. I could keep watching. It felt like the show didn’t want u to like any of the characters
Fun fact: I thought when they were shooting at the glass they were making it so anyone cut their feet when they walked out. It wasn't until THIS VIDEO that I realized there were people way up there.
Also this is my favorite RUclips series rn. Love this stuff thrifty!
I would honestly love for you to tie in Fear The Walking Dead in your analysis after you're done with Season 9. I've thoroughly enjoyed all your commentaries on TWD and I think it would be amazing
LOL great video title. I have a lot of gripes with the season but I really like that EP1 Mercy comes before EP16 Wrath. At least that title idea had some soul along with the Flashforwards
as an 11 y/o when season 7 came out, watching it with my family week to week it is still one of my fav seasons. And season 8 in my memory was very similar. I havent rewatched it since then but thse videos have made me want to rewatch and see if ill like it or agree with your opinions a little more. Loved the video cant wait to see you shit on seasons i never watched.
Your carls death segment was maybe the best part of the video it made SO MUCH SENSE thinking about it
The last two seasons are the worst, I'm not saying season 8 is a masterpiece, but compared to the final two seasons it looks like Nolan & Scorsese quality.
You quite literally said "I wasn't going to subject my girlfriend to watch this entire season, so we watched a few important moments, and we are on to season 9."
I've talked about Morgan originally being the one who was supposed to die all the way back when Rick found out Carl was bit. It was so obvious. Before Carl was bit I was saying that Morgan is gonna be the one who convinces Rick to keep Negan alive because Morgan was going on about mercy and he built Negans cell so it was super obvious and then when Carl was bit I started commenting that Morgan was clearly supposed to be the person who died.
Thrifty! Went to college w you! Love your videos bro
the only season I didn't watch in full.
And I binged the whole show in 2024.
i would be so happy if you do a review of the different seasons of telltales the walking dead, Sn 1-4, and the 2 spin offs
Canned szn😂😂😂
W video title, Carl death still hurts 🤦🏾♂️, This szn felt like they wanted to us to stop watching 😂😂
The funny thing about it is that the time these were coming out, they were looked at as the best seasons. The hype was massive. I feel like a lot of fans couldn't get over the deaths of glenn and carl. Not to mention, plus the world was changing with the rise of streaming & smartphones becoming way more prevalent, Then they were when the show first started. I feel like this really affected the show because they didn't know what direction to take it in. A lot of shows suffered from this.
I didn't even care about Carl at the time, but I thought killing him was so weird and bad for the story they were building since the beginning that this was the last season I watched. I think I started S09 but lost interest after two episodes. So I'm just gonna wait for your videos about the last seasons.
Simon was the best part of the season I don't care what people say
I used to make Walking Dead Sunday an event. After season 8, I started just recording it on DVR and watching later. I tried watching Fear all the way to the end, but I just couldn't. It was so boring and weird near the end of its run.
great video yongye- i mean thrifty typewriter
The magic typewriter man is back, better go get my popcorn 🍿
YES! I agree with everything you said about Carl's death and how it was originally going to be Morgan. I have made all of these exact points before. The foundation was definitely laid out for this in season 6 (even in "Here's Not Here" ). Plans changed (obviously) and this is how Morgan ended up on Fear. It does make me wonder how they would have made all the pieces connect with the two of them getting so little screen time together in seasons 7 and 8, but there is no doubt, they laid the groundwork in S6. I truly believe the initial plan was to kill Morgan off in season 8 and when they decided to go a different way they just moved him to Fear since they had no plans for him post All out War
Love your wit and narration. You always have insightful observations on this show.
4 Ways To Make Seasons 7-8 Work:
1. 10 Episodes Each (Fixes Pacing/Bad Editing)
2 . Never have Morgan give up on his no kill rule.
3. Build the relationship between Rick and Morgan to eventually have Morgan die at the mid point of 8.
4. Get rid of Garbage People and Ocean Side. Literally the worst group of characters in the entire show.