Totally agree! For the same aesthetic reasons you cite I never completely take the reverb out between songs when I'm mixing and use a DCA to adjust it between songs (and often dynamically during the song).
Indeed! It's never as exact as just having the 'verb fader at unity throughout every song and then down an exact amount between every song. It can even change as the room fills up or emptys. Thank you for the comment!
I can pull faders. Others can film faders. You teach the philosophy, the thought process that goes in to being a Great engineer. That's why I'm here! ⚡
Thank you, Freeman. I appreciate your enthusiasm and willingness to consider different approaches, methods and philosophies. Let me know if there's ever a specific question or topic you think I should cover in a future video. 🤟
@@LiveSoundTips Had a guy come help on sound. I twisted his arm coz he felt the career was over. I told him I'd never fight him, never doubt him and that i was all ears, so to speak. No one is too smart to not learn from a brother.
@@freemandiaz5123, wireless is so tricky. I've been going through a steep learning curve with wireless mic's the last few years cuz I do a ton of weddings now and need that stuff to be foolproof. It might take a while til I'm confident enough to discuss what little I know on that topic in a video. ;)
Bejamin, it's probably just you and I that even notice it when we're at a concert being mixed by someone else. hahaha. But in the long run it's a good habit to bring a certain mindfulness to those tiny details. And thank you because I greatly appreciate you watching the video and commenting!
You got it, Jake! Now that I'm getting a grasp of some basic, DIY editing and also some better lighting you can look for these short "Black Lightning" videos each Monday. I've also got a few more longer topics to shoot in the coming weeks. Thank you for taking the time to watch!!
I mute the delay send between songs. Never mute the verb. Another thing is that I don't like to mute returns, because it sounds really awkward and wrong. Mute the sends. I also automate the sends. Returns are for overall level. My 2 cents
i do both. personally i dont find it jarring to hear dry voices for talking, but one thing to consider: a lot of singers also move even closer to/eat the mic for in between songs banter, which makes the effect youre talking about even more pronounced. what i do do a lot (for bands i work with regularly) is deliberately hard mute the verbs for, say, whispery, intimate or downright haunting parts in the set. really helps sell the atmosphere.
Indeed! I'm realizing as I shoot these faster or shorter topics unscripted, I tend forget a lot of the nuanced stuff like what you mentioned about how so manyy performers change their overall voice level and distance to/from the mic for the between song banter. It definitely affects what goes through the FX engines in a noticeable way. I also planned to dive deeper into adjusting FX levels _within_ a song, similar to what you mentioned, in a later episode, so I'm definitely encouraged by knowing folks like yourself are already thinking and mixing with such strategy and precision. Thank you for watching and commenting and keep up the great work! 👂💪🤟
@@LiveSoundTips ha no worries man, just wanted to add something to the conversation. :) im glad and super thankful that theres videos like the one above from folks who even think about that kind of stuff!
I appreciate it! My intent all along was to use this channel as a way to initiate down-to-earth, civilized conversations for people that can help each other keep improving their skill set. Your comments and suggestions are a big help in making it a cool place for people to learn. 🙏
I completely agree, and I'm guilty as charged also! This very evening in a larger Theatre and a console I'm not used to and I did mute the the reverb between songs, and noted it actually sounded ok with the short reverb wound down (I missed the mute, honestly!).... so very much a timely video!!!! I would like to ask, do you use a reverb on pre fader sends? I find in a smaller space I can do this with Drums/horns section to great effect, because it adds space and colour without volume, that reverb is always on...
Thanks for watching and commenting, Rob! I still like to send my 'verbs post-fader but I do like always having the drum or instrument verbs on at all times. If _all_ verbs are either ducked or muted then it sounds weird when a song starts off with totally dry drum all by themselves until the verbs unmute for the vocals. It's another aspect of why it's so important to just have a deliberate plan for reverb or FX because it's too distracting to hear those changes happen out of sync with a song. :)
Guilty as charged! Best to reduce, rather than totally kill vocal reverb between songs, I agree. But I’d rather have that jarring change in perspective than struggle to hear the spoken comments between songs through a long plate reverb, which is a worse crime, IMO.
I agree, Charles. It's one of the reasons I cringe when singers want to use those damn vocal FX pedals. I'd say about half the time they forget to turn them off between songs and it's like Homey's talking from the bottom of the Grand Canyon... anyon... nyon... yon... 😂🙄
Interesting idea, but I mute reverb between songs and I think leaving reverb on would be odd. First, it's not that noticeable during songs, therefore it would suddenly be very noticeable that there were effects on the vocal. But an interesting idea to leave a little bit up.
Great video! Never thought of it that way! By the way - does anyone happen to have a working link to Christopher Moore’s paper on artificial reverberation?
I guess I get away with completely muting fx between songs because the venue im in is sooo intimate to begin with its a small club 250 cap, and its actually a restaurant during the day that has its tables cleared out for shows. Its the sister venue to the 2000 cap theater next door. I have experimented with just lowering the fx but it has always sounded out of place to me.
i'm working on tv station and i feel that too.. but i've been do the same thing, never mute the reverb but the broadcast engineer usually mute their reverb cuz it's kinda funny when they talking with the host..
@@LiveSoundTips! Thanks man ! The filming was kind of ghetto (i was only supposed to take care of the audio aspect but ended up being the only person who filmed that night, with my shitty 2010 smartphone of course). I have other similar live videos with (re)mixed audio on my channel, and some other will come later.
Thanks for watching and posting a question! I think reverb is best for situations like concerts or other dramatic productions, like maybe at times in theatrical plays. But for anything like a live speech, or especially a sermon/preaching in any house of worship, I think vocal effects would be too much of a unnecessary distraction for the listener.
@@LiveSoundTipsAlright sir, thank you so much. I'd like to know more about live sound (audio engineering), please any recommendations? And is it possible to learn directly from you? Thanks
@@jonahbarasinopre, if you're just getting started learning about live sound then look for videos or web pages about "gain structure". That's the most fundamental concept that has a huge impact on how everything in professional audio works. If you already have a good grasp of that then Dave Rat has some really great videos and he's the GOAT of concert engineers. Also, a book _every_ live sound engineer can benefit from having is, "The Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook". At the moment I don't have a way to teach individual classes but maybe in the future I can host a webinar?
What’s he even really talking about really? Give me a break “pioneering stuff in the 80s and the 90s” already. I have to call em like I see them no disrespect.
I don't understand what the disagreement might be about the Ursa Major products. They might not be like the Lexicons of that era but they're still unique and highly sought after. Either way, it's not really the point of the topic, it was just a random thought that popped into my head as I shot a previous take on this topic. My only point here is that whatever choices one does make with regard to reverb and delay should have an explicit reasoning behind it, not just something we do because everyone else does it that way. 🤷♂️
Totally agree! For the same aesthetic reasons you cite I never completely take the reverb out between songs when I'm mixing and use a DCA to adjust it between songs (and often dynamically during the song).
Indeed! It's never as exact as just having the 'verb fader at unity throughout every song and then down an exact amount between every song. It can even change as the room fills up or emptys. Thank you for the comment!
I can pull faders. Others can film faders. You teach the philosophy, the thought process that goes in to being a Great engineer. That's why I'm here! ⚡
Thank you, Freeman. I appreciate your enthusiasm and willingness to consider different approaches, methods and philosophies. Let me know if there's ever a specific question or topic you think I should cover in a future video. 🤟
@@LiveSoundTips Had a guy come help on sound. I twisted his arm coz he felt the career was over. I told him I'd never fight him, never doubt him and that i was all ears, so to speak. No one is too smart to not learn from a brother.
We did 6 wireless mic, one kept popping in and out. Bad pack or bad freq? Really was distracting. Humble thanks Paul.
@@freemandiaz5123, wireless is so tricky. I've been going through a steep learning curve with wireless mic's the last few years cuz I do a ton of weddings now and need that stuff to be foolproof. It might take a while til I'm confident enough to discuss what little I know on that topic in a video. ;)
@@LiveSoundTips lol, hard wire is much more predictable! Cheers brother!
yes! I've been doing the same thing also. Thought I was the only one!
Bejamin, it's probably just you and I that even notice it when we're at a concert being mixed by someone else. hahaha. But in the long run it's a good habit to bring a certain mindfulness to those tiny details. And thank you because I greatly appreciate you watching the video and commenting!
hell yeah a new upload keep them coming
You got it, Jake! Now that I'm getting a grasp of some basic, DIY editing and also some better lighting you can look for these short "Black Lightning" videos each Monday. I've also got a few more longer topics to shoot in the coming weeks. Thank you for taking the time to watch!!
I mute the delay send between songs. Never mute the verb. Another thing is that I don't like to mute returns, because it sounds really awkward and wrong. Mute the sends. I also automate the sends. Returns are for overall level. My 2 cents
i do both. personally i dont find it jarring to hear dry voices for talking, but one thing to consider: a lot of singers also move even closer to/eat the mic for in between songs banter, which makes the effect youre talking about even more pronounced.
what i do do a lot (for bands i work with regularly) is deliberately hard mute the verbs for, say, whispery, intimate or downright haunting parts in the set. really helps sell the atmosphere.
Indeed! I'm realizing as I shoot these faster or shorter topics unscripted, I tend forget a lot of the nuanced stuff like what you mentioned about how so manyy performers change their overall voice level and distance to/from the mic for the between song banter. It definitely affects what goes through the FX engines in a noticeable way. I also planned to dive deeper into adjusting FX levels _within_ a song, similar to what you mentioned, in a later episode, so I'm definitely encouraged by knowing folks like yourself are already thinking and mixing with such strategy and precision. Thank you for watching and commenting and keep up the great work! 👂💪🤟
@@LiveSoundTips ha no worries man, just wanted to add something to the conversation. :)
im glad and super thankful that theres videos like the one above from folks who even think about that kind of stuff!
I appreciate it! My intent all along was to use this channel as a way to initiate down-to-earth, civilized conversations for people that can help each other keep improving their skill set. Your comments and suggestions are a big help in making it a cool place for people to learn. 🙏
I completely agree, and I'm guilty as charged also! This very evening in a larger Theatre and a console I'm not used to and I did mute the the reverb between songs, and noted it actually sounded ok with the short reverb wound down (I missed the mute, honestly!).... so very much a timely video!!!! I would like to ask, do you use a reverb on pre fader sends? I find in a smaller space I can do this with Drums/horns section to great effect, because it adds space and colour without volume, that reverb is always on...
Thanks for watching and commenting, Rob! I still like to send my 'verbs post-fader but I do like always having the drum or instrument verbs on at all times. If _all_ verbs are either ducked or muted then it sounds weird when a song starts off with totally dry drum all by themselves until the verbs unmute for the vocals. It's another aspect of why it's so important to just have a deliberate plan for reverb or FX because it's too distracting to hear those changes happen out of sync with a song. :)
Guilty as charged! Best to reduce, rather than totally kill vocal reverb between songs, I agree. But I’d rather have that jarring change in perspective than struggle to hear the spoken comments between songs through a long plate reverb, which is a worse crime, IMO.
I agree, Charles. It's one of the reasons I cringe when singers want to use those damn vocal FX pedals. I'd say about half the time they forget to turn them off between songs and it's like Homey's talking from the bottom of the Grand Canyon... anyon... nyon... yon... 😂🙄
Interesting idea, but I mute reverb between songs and I think leaving reverb on would be odd. First, it's not that noticeable during songs, therefore it would suddenly be very noticeable that there were effects on the vocal. But an interesting idea to leave a little bit up.
Great video! Never thought of it that way!
By the way - does anyone happen to have a working link to Christopher Moore’s paper on artificial reverberation?
I had an Ursa major 8x32 in the late eighties /early 90's and I regret to this day letting it go.
I guess I get away with completely muting fx between songs because the venue im in is sooo intimate to begin with its a small club 250 cap, and its actually a restaurant during the day that has its tables cleared out for shows. Its the sister venue to the 2000 cap theater next door. I have experimented with just lowering the fx but it has always sounded out of place to me.
I can't find that paper any more :(((
i'm working on tv station and i feel that too.. but i've been do the same thing, never mute the reverb but the broadcast engineer usually mute their reverb cuz it's kinda funny when they talking with the host..
Black Lightning!
Great video.
Thank you for the continued support! And your End of Mankind "Rise Of A Cult Leader / Cyanide" live video shreds!
@@LiveSoundTips! Thanks man !
The filming was kind of ghetto (i was only supposed to take care of the audio aspect but ended up being the only person who filmed that night, with my shitty 2010 smartphone of course).
I have other similar live videos with (re)mixed audio on my channel, and some other will come later.
@@djabthrash I still thought it was all cool (the performance, audio and video)! Keep up the good work!
@@LiveSoundTips Thanks man !
Thanks for your thoughts. However, is it ideal to use reverb on speech or message?
Thanks for watching and posting a question! I think reverb is best for situations like concerts or other dramatic productions, like maybe at times in theatrical plays. But for anything like a live speech, or especially a sermon/preaching in any house of worship, I think vocal effects would be too much of a unnecessary distraction for the listener.
@@LiveSoundTipsAlright sir, thank you so much. I'd like to know more about live sound (audio engineering), please any recommendations? And is it possible to learn directly from you?
Thanks
@@jonahbarasinopre, if you're just getting started learning about live sound then look for videos or web pages about "gain structure". That's the most fundamental concept that has a huge impact on how everything in professional audio works. If you already have a good grasp of that then Dave Rat has some really great videos and he's the GOAT of concert engineers. Also, a book _every_ live sound engineer can benefit from having is, "The Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook". At the moment I don't have a way to teach individual classes but maybe in the future I can host a webinar?
@@LiveSoundTips Alright sir, thank you so much
Dave Rat videos are awesome
What’s he even really talking about really? Give me a break “pioneering stuff in the 80s and the 90s” already. I have to call em like I see them no disrespect.
I don't understand what the disagreement might be about the Ursa Major products. They might not be like the Lexicons of that era but they're still unique and highly sought after. Either way, it's not really the point of the topic, it was just a random thought that popped into my head as I shot a previous take on this topic. My only point here is that whatever choices one does make with regard to reverb and delay should have an explicit reasoning behind it, not just something we do because everyone else does it that way. 🤷♂️