Twilight came at the perfect time and showed what a dominant monetary force young women/teenage girls are in media consumption. There were other very male oriented movies like Transformers and the like that, though they received criticism, have never received nearly as much vitriol as Twilight got. I’m glad the Twilight films got made and I’m glad they gave the subsequent films such big budgets because it was good for there to be space for mindless escapist female-oriented fantasy the way the transformer movies, the fast & furious movies, and even the marvel movies are for boys.
@@suezcontours6653 That's very true and a fair point. I have a soft spot for Twilight and I'm not white, which is why I just said 'young women' but you're totally right about Black/Asian/Indigenous stories not getting that type of budget or reception, or even getting made.
As a black girl I loved and still do love twilight. I have all the books and the dvd set. I will say that the soundtrack and knowing some of the actors before watching the film did play a factor tho.
Never thought I'll defend Twilight on this channel, but as a teenage girl when the first film came out, the female oriented, young adult content was a drought. The boys get their pile of shit (i.e. Transformers with HYPERsexualized Megan Fox), but there's nothing for us. I stuck with the franchise before realizing how bad it was in the second one, but did not regret enjoying it. It's fun to laugh at the Twilight saga now, but the franchise made generations of female re-engage with books and fantasy genre as a whole. I'll still take this franchise over late phase MCU (which used to be my entire personality).
i have no problem with people enjoying trash. we all have our vices for escapism! also good perspective about fan-favorites funding more artistic endeavors.
@geodaet83 Yet we only see one or two rewarded at the Oscar's every 4 years? Sorry but most Hollywood movies have sucked for decades and don't belong celebration. Star Wars is based off of Seven Samurai, Disney built its company on reboots (we just upset NOW because it's people of color replacing white actors when Hollywood has been whitewashed stories all along).
I usually don't really mind bad movies when you can tell that they don't have a negative impact on the film industry. As big as the Twilight phenomenon was, did it send us to a dark age of young adult romantic vampire blockbusters? Aside from spawning the Fifty Shades franchise, it didn't really affect mainstream cinema. The same can be said about the Avatar movies. Those are films that I don't respect for their writing (and their font choice). But aside from being technically innovative, I don't really see their cultural impact. Personally I'm a lot more bothered by the success of the live action Disney remakes. But that's mostly because I want Disney to be that company that produces animated classics, instead of making inferior versions of those classics as their main product. And lately, I don't see how they're using that live action money for making more original movies. I kinda miss the days in which their bad writing went into the direct to video sequels.
I think Pattison should be more grateful, those movies may be pretty bad, but they put him on the map, not sure if his follow-up projects would have achieved that, if they were his first roles....
Boyhood didn't win Best Director, that went to Birdman 🤓but great video as always! Very insightful because I haven't seen any of these movies and I never will hahaha!
“Go to the movies” is the key phrase. I don’t really care to go to purely dramatic movies at the movie theatre, even a toonie theatre (do those still exist). I go to movies at the theatre where: - there characters or scenes that are amplified by the size of the screen and the power of the sound system (sci fi, action, adventure) - being immersed in a large audience who all are (hopefully) there to experience the movie for what it is will increase the enjoyment of the movie through co-enjoyment (horror, comedy) Dramas (aka Oscar bait) can be awesome cinematic experiences, but in current day you almost never need anything more than your modern home theatre. Even a 50” QLED and a sound bar will do for dramas. Why pay $30 as a couple to go to a theatre for a drama where almost nothing is amplified or needs to be amplified by the audio video setup. Wait for rental and pay $6, or maybe even wait til it hits a streaming service within your subscription. Movie theatres best serve movies that deliver some amount of spectacle or that benefit most from a gathered audience of common mind.
Interesting video. I think the Dakota Johnson bit was kinda harsh. She's shown her acting talent in films like Suspiria (2018), The Lost Daughter, and Bad Times At the El Royale. I still have yet to watch A Bigger Splash. In the right role, she's actually pretty great.
i'm kinda just thankful that quality movies, artful movies, challenging movies even get made- the economics of making the next Fast and Furious sequel is hard to beat, going by the numbers.
Movies have always been trash and movies have always been great. We tend to look back on just the same couple of movies from a bygone era that were awesome and we tend to forget the bad ones. I don’t know which great movies from the past you’re thinking about, but I could probably also name amazing current movies to match them in each of their respective genres.
@@erik1579 Yes, the ratio between good and bad movies has always been roughly the same. There's just a whole lot more movies now. It's the same with music or any other piece of art, really.
Gen x/older millenial women with steady incomes go to the movies bro. It happens. And you GOT to give people what they want. And what they want is to live vicariously through young attractive stand ins in unhealthy relationships as it wont have a negative effect on their lives.
@suezcontours6653 gen x/older millenial men got the movies bro. It happens. you GOT to give the people what they want. And what they want to see is the action figures they used to smash together as 8 year olds get smashed together except this time with a 50 million dollar cgi budget. Jokes aside I say it like that because media created for women tend to be treated like it came from another planet by video essayist on the tube. But they aren't from another planet. They are right here. And we should take the time to understand them, and stop sonning them for liking what they like. After all, they have pretended to be into what we like for a long ass time.
The problem is that both escapist fantasies and high art are judged by the same metric - opening box office weekend sales. We go to the theater to be entertained, but we watch movies for something more. What we see at the theater isn’t always a reflection of our interests and tastes. What we watch at home, alone, or with a loved one, is a better reflection of what we actually want. Unfortunately there are no numbers to reflect the success of a movie long-term, at least none widely known and talked about. Birdman may have made less money on opening weekend, but people are still watching it to this day. Whereas twilight is all but forgotten, reduced to a meme and nothing more. Art cannot be judged by the same standards as entertainment. Not if we want a clear picture of what people WANT from their movies.
This statement sounds nice, but is ultimately false. Twilight hasn't been forgotten, it is literally the topic of this very video released in 2024. When the films were added to Netflix during Covid, it made resurgence in the pop culture and continued to trend on Twitter for weeks at a time. There have even been several new books added to the franchise in the time since the movies released that have all been financially successful. Hell, they've literally green lit a new Twilight television reboot as recently as last year that is in development as we speak. The Twilight franchise is alive and well in the pop culture; Birdman, like most best picture winners/nominees, is not. Don't get me wrong, it will always sit amongst the elite collection of films that are best picture winners/nominees, but as both box office and pop culture sentiment has shown it is a relatively forgotten film outside of pure cinephiles. I do agree about the difference between what we watch to feel entertained and what we watch out of pure admiration, nor am I trying to 'defend' Twilight or anything, but lets keep the facts straight in discussions such as this- Twilight still has a thriving fanbase, which does out-match the smaller, more critical fanbase behind films like Birdman. Both can be culturally relevant in their own unique ways. What may be high art to you and me, may be crap to others.
An insightful visual essay...you make your case in a constructive way. And though I agree that it's better to keep cinema active for a broad public, I'm reminded that even some of the best writers of fiction had also to publish a bit of trash just to feed a reading market (Dickens' serial pieces, for instance. Mostly forgotten today). There will always be a variance in quality, but I'm glad even for the existence of bad movies if that means that cinema has a chance to remain active as an art form.
I highly disagree with the point that its alright from a big picture point of view. The consequences in the long term are severe and probably too gradual for us to notice. But its essentially like training, both the audience and the producers, to like and therefore ask for, bad movies. In the long term, it makes it harder and harder for the movies that actually respect the art, to survive (at first) and to even be viable (as an end result at some point in the future). I have not watched Twilight nor 50 shades of grey and havent read any of the books either. I just disagree with the premise. But im often wrong and tend to think out loud (through my keyboard).
Peter Griffin from Family Guy once said "Sometimes You Gotta Start With Doing Crap Before You Get To The Good" yeah that quote from him in the early days of Family Guy summarizes both Twilight & 50 Shades of Grey and many other bad movies in a nutshell
I’m not saying 50 shades of gray was better than any of those 5 movies that won Oscar’s but if we’re being honest, Oscar nominations and wins really don’t mean what they used to anymore. It’s like presidential nominees, sure all the candidates in a primary have levels of success and experience as politicians, but we all know there’s 10 more deserving better candidates who didn’t even make it to the stage because they didn’t have the money and friends those who are on stage have. Award shows work the same way
Seeing Breaking Dawn Part 2 in theathers was the greatest experience ever. Everyone was freaking out then the twist happens and EVERYONE lost their shit even more. Amazing
I was dragged into the theatre to see it and pretty much the very first thing that happens is that dude ripping off his shirt. I just completely lost it and did not recover until it was over.
i find this framing quite strange. if we're talking about meritocracy, come on, hollywood was never a space for meritocracy. who gets to make movies, what movies get to be made are not chosen for the merits. by rather who's attached to them. this was the case even before the studios have become more risk averse and started making formulaic movies. the choice of twilight and fifty shades of gray is also interesting, and calling the audience who enjoys these movies "audience who expected slops" is also quite a choice of words because yes, these books were not the pinnacle of literature but they appealed to big audience of people because they execute the well known tropes of romance genre and connect them to supernatural elements (in case of twilight) and kink community (in case of 50 shades). There's a lot of discussion to be had what kind of elements these movies executed well or not, but the fact of the matter is they spoke to people. like these movies have a lot of problems we get it okay. Lets actually criticize them for the racism, sexism toward the characters who are not Bella, damn imprinting, lets criticize these points. and with all that a lot of people still loved it. but like this is different conversation then just "oh bad movies are becoming hits". and even with all these problems, there are other critically acclaimed movies that have the same issues as twilight (racism and sexism in their plots) yet their audiences don't get bashed. and for that matter do you think people who watched twilight never watched marvel? and there clearly are bad movies that were box office hits like idk "Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs" i just googled that. But when there's a thinkpiece it's always the twilight movies brought up.
They were fun movies period. The disdain some people have for media aimed at teenage girls and young women is weird. Let females have fun at the movies. Also let us stop being so judgmental about sex and cheesy love triangles. It's ok to let people like what they like without being a snarky jerk about it.
Yeaaaah Let's get this video to a lot of views in the first hour so that it gets love from youtube Algorithm bless this video which i liked even before watching it because it's that good Seriously, sometimes i end up pissed off because i can't like it again after watching it, fix that youtube Lots of words lots of engagement, yadda yadda
Does someone know where this RUclipsr is from? I know he's from the UK but where exactly? I'm asking cause I love accents and I wanna know where his is from.
This is literally the same as to why they keep pumping out trash reality shows. People want to escape their everyday reality for simple, fun, sometimes trashy stories/ drama so they can laugh and gossip about it to their peers. Not everybody wants to constantly sit through a 2-3 hour film that requires you to turn on your thinking cap and analyze every damn detail and its complex stories and characters. Shameless guilty pleasure is what it is. I personally enjoy both. The Oscar masterpieces and the cheesy cringe filled Hallmark films. They both fill separate desires at different times. I think most can appreciate and enjoy both for various reasons. HOWEVER, my biggest issue is the constant empty and hollow remakes, sequels and DEI driven movies. THAT is what is ruining Hollywood.
What a weirdly mean spirited take. Even as a middle aged man who has no interest in ever watching (or reading) Twilight or FSG and is 99% sure that I would find them incredibly dull this seems a strangely aggressive attack on those that do. You seem to categorise everyone that watched either franchise as slop guzzling morons only fit to provide the movie industry with the capital to make "proper art" for the more elite sophisticated (read the video author) to enjoy. Most people don't only like one kind of thing. Almost everyone who watched the movies in question will also have watched and enjoyed other types of movies as well (ones that JAO would "approve" of). I enjoy your videos but rather than finding any artistic or entertainment based merit in these films you just seems to shit on them, and worse shit on those that watched them. I am sure there are several better ways to explore the popularity of these films. I am certainly not creative enough to do that but disappointing that such a normally good RUclipsr is also not. Sure the next video will be back to the usual quality
you're generally a great channel, I say this as sb who likes yr videos. This take is kinda weird, there are tons of way more boring and worse made action movies targeted to men that are called fun bc they're dumb. It sounds kind of misogynistic to imply the ones for women are sooo bland and exaggerate how the men who acted in it don't like it
Same feeling here, usually the videos are well thought out and now it was basically “Twilight bad.” The video had literally the shallowest take on why those movies were so popular, which tells me that no research went into making this since there are so many fantastic articles and video essays “defending” them. Also comparing these movies to something like the Birdman and Citizen Kane is extremely disingenuous since they are, much like Bayhem films, the movie equivalent of junk food. It’s frustrating that anything made for (or by) women has to be something amazing to be considered good whereas less than mediocre movies made for a primarily male audience tend to get a pass. This video to me screams “I don’t have an idea for a video but have to post something, what takes minimal effort and pleases the algorithm?”
Dakota Johnson works better in low budget indie comedies like The Peanut Butter Falcon and Cha Cha Real Smooth, where her performances are actually pretty effective
Not really surprising that the masses gravitate towards crap... if things were flipped and the masses were gravitating towards the intellectual stuff, we would witness an entirely different society around us. But our society exists on a knife's edge balance in which just enough intellectual stuff gets through to not tumble everything into stupifying chaos. If the masses wanted intellectual stuff more, we would also see a world filled with calm and constructive debates, people working towards solutions instead of fighting over who's fault it was or who's wrong. It's therefor not that controversial to say the masses like crap because the masses are mostly just stupid and like to dwell in such crap. Because it's a fact of many forms of statistics, only toned down so as to not be mean to the masses.
you know you have free will right? if it was the question that more "interesting" videos were not on the theaters because of theses pieces of trash, which is not the case... plus lets face boyhood was not that great
Contrapoints has a great video on Twilight and why it captured audiences. Both of these franchises are targeted to girls and women respectively in an era where box office hits were primarily targeted to boys and men. Your take on this is disappointing because it feels like it is judging these harder than 99% of crap franchises that have a male audience. EDIT: for clarity sake, I’m not saying Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey are good, they are bad entertainment.
I can't say. I tried to watch "50 Shades of Grey," but just couldn't make it; was not interested in the "hot, young, sexy vampires." I am not teenager but, I will take Bela Lugosi anytime over this young crew.
This video seemed too biased against 50 Shades of Gray and Twilight. You showed other clips of movies yet only mentioned them in passing like "Fun movie bad."
even as someone who desperately wants to be in the industry, i could never imagine being so upset about movies like these. they’re fun. you’re (not you specifically mr. Just an Observation) telling me that you’ve never wanted to sit down and watch a mindless comedy or shitty drama just because? i think that a lot of these film snobs who are ONLY snobs think it makes them look more intelligent, but it only ever presents them as incapable of getting along with others. most of my favorite movies are beautiful, auteur driven films, but i think the majority of what i watch is “slop.” it’s not impossible to understand why these movies make more, but so many people try to act like there’s some brain eating parasite in people that makes them want to watch a marvel movie. holy shit just use *your* brain. even the great filmmakers enjoy “slop.” you can’t only learn from what’s “good.” there’s no façade you need to keep up with to be a filmmaker. loosen up!
Yeah, Star Wars boys and Transformers gear heads. Sorry but this trend of bad movies was started by the MALES who kept giving Michael Bay money - he's the Tyler Perry of Action blockbuster movies
Most people don't want to feel stupid when they watch a movie or a series. So, when some intellectual calls them "the mass" and a movie stupid, they know they'll be among peers watching it. That's just an oberservation..
I'm sorry, I find it obnoxious when an actor badmouths his own film. Imagine having worked there in graphic design, and the main face is talking shit about the project after getting paid THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS... it's very hypocritical. I think all actors can have their opinions, but these are things that are best discussed with family and friends, not sinking your own ship. As for the Twilight and Fifty Shades hate, I think both fandoms are victims of generalized hatred of things that succeed with women: there's no reason why a movie can't be hollow and fun. Or do you measure garbage like Transformers and Fast and Furious with the same yardstick? There's a lot of misogyny behind that. Let people be happy and enjoy their fantasies. I'm not a fan myself, but I UNDERSTAND why they resonate so much with people and I find it AMAZING that it generates community.
Oh I'm just wondering what has been going on since 2008 that has made most people want to see rather shallow escapism in movies? Ah yes global financial crisis and recession after the mess of the mortgage crisis. Life’s shitty and bad let’s watch some simple stuff to forget about it for a moment or two… Maybe that’s the simple explanation 😉
Honestly, this seems very mean spirited of you. Because yes, you’re not outright insulting the audiences who enjoy this but you’re insinuating it and it’s odd because is it necessary? You don’t like it, that’s fine. Do other people do yes. You’re coming like such a pretentious snob.
Yeah, Citizen Kane debuted a lot of filmmaking techniques that are still used today, but it was god-awfully boring. Please stop glazing this film as if it was a good movie. LoL
Nah, we watched that because we couldn't BELIEVE such trash got the greenlight. After the initial hype of the first movie we stopped supporting that franchise. I didn't even see the last one anywhere, not in theatres, dvd or streaming.
For people slagging off this video saying its hypocritical for focusing on "female" movies, its because the main stars admit, along with fans that they are crap, he does mention action franchises aimed at men but the stars of those are not so critical.
I think an underrated part of why these movies were popular is because the audiences for these types of films often aren't catered to by big budget movies, or at least weren't really getting sold to at the time. Mainstream romances and rom coms were in a downward spiral over this time period. Dumb movies have always existed, and even been popular, especially when there's an element of wish fullfillment. Look at the 1980s and all the Rocky and Rambo sequels. Or the Transformer movies from the same era as Twilight. If a part of the market is ignored, and someone makes a movie for them, they'll make $$$
You can't compare the Rocky sequels to Twilight. Twilight as a story was just plain weak, but the Rocky sequels (minus the fifth which was never as popular) were good stories that just didn't have the depth of the previous films.
@@sarahluana1679Upon Twilights initial release in theatre, I didn’t believe this movie was “bad.” I still don’t think it’s bad, I wasn’t surprised it did so well.
@@sarahluana1679Upon Twilights initial release into theatre, I didn’t believe it was “bad”. I still don’t believe it’s bad, I wasn’t surprised it did so well.
Never thought I'll defend Twilight on this channel, but as a teenage girl when the first film came out, the female-oriented young adult content was a drought. The boys get their pile of shit (i.e. Transformers with HYPERsexualized Megan Fox), but there's nothing for us. I stuck with the franchise before realizing how bad it was in the second one, but did not regret enjoying it. It's fun to laugh at the Twilight saga now, but the franchise made generations of female re-engage with books and fantasy genre as a whole. I'll still take this franchise over late phase MCU (which used to be my entire personality).
I'm a big defender of the "business" in show business, because I want sustainable art and the only way to be sustainable is to be profitable. So my criticism falls entirely on the fans, the audience. This is what people want, you have to accept it, and you can criticize them for it. In short, I pretty much agree with what you presented.
how did this get made podcast recently had episodes on the fifty shades movies. its fun and worth a listen. dont ever watch the movies alone, they’re most fun with friends to make fun of.
Yeah... the actors wanted their big break. They sold their seriousness on these projects they were clearly embarrassed by in order to make their debuts.
When that head chip that records the stuff inside our heads debuts, then we'll really know that our subconscious is full of ridiculous movies, which explains their appeal.
This is how I feel abt TASM2. The general public doesn’t like the film and thinks it’s bad but it’s one of my favorites to watch. And I know that the story isn’t the best but the thing that carries it for me is Andrew Garfield’s performance and the visuals
This is a weird subjective take on the whole matter. Not everyone disliked/hated Twilight/Fifty Shades. Theres genuinely a large fandom for it and obviously a big interest in these stories which is why they made money at the box office. There have been multiple films over the last decades that have been considered a "hit" but not all of us have necessarily enjoyed or even watched them. Why are Top Gun/TFATF "fun bad films" but Twilight/Fifty Shades are a disgrace to art and its audience therefore stupid and devoted of taste? Its always the movies that cater to a more female audience that get this type of hate and ridicule.
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“But the destitute Twilight fans needed something to satisfy their insatiable lust for hollow character writing” 😂😂😂
Literally burst out laughing when he said that.
😂
Twilight came at the perfect time and showed what a dominant monetary force young women/teenage girls are in media consumption. There were other very male oriented movies like Transformers and the like that, though they received criticism, have never received nearly as much vitriol as Twilight got. I’m glad the Twilight films got made and I’m glad they gave the subsequent films such big budgets because it was good for there to be space for mindless escapist female-oriented fantasy the way the transformer movies, the fast & furious movies, and even the marvel movies are for boys.
young WHITE female teenage girls. Sorry but black and Asian and Native American stories still struggle to obtain mainstream box office
@@suezcontours6653 That's very true and a fair point. I have a soft spot for Twilight and I'm not white, which is why I just said 'young women' but you're totally right about Black/Asian/Indigenous stories not getting that type of budget or reception, or even getting made.
As a black girl I loved and still do love twilight. I have all the books and the dvd set. I will say that the soundtrack and knowing some of the actors before watching the film did play a factor tho.
@@asia8001 WTF does colour have to do with anything. Expecting a cookie? Lol.
Never thought I'll defend Twilight on this channel, but as a teenage girl when the first film came out, the female oriented, young adult content was a drought. The boys get their pile of shit (i.e. Transformers with HYPERsexualized Megan Fox), but there's nothing for us. I stuck with the franchise before realizing how bad it was in the second one, but did not regret enjoying it. It's fun to laugh at the Twilight saga now, but the franchise made generations of female re-engage with books and fantasy genre as a whole. I'll still take this franchise over late phase MCU (which used to be my entire personality).
i have no problem with people enjoying trash. we all have our vices for escapism! also good perspective about fan-favorites funding more artistic endeavors.
Wow finally someone else that isn't into superhero movies! There are an insane amount of super hero movies and remakes.
wake up bae the goat dropped
I'm also wondering about the opposite question... why do great movies sometimes flop hard?
What's your definition of great? Also, there's a shift in demographic now. East Asian movies are preferred by new generation
@@suezcontours6653 I mean, critically acclaimed movies. East Asian movies are often critically acclaimed.
@geodaet83 Yet we only see one or two rewarded at the Oscar's every 4 years? Sorry but most Hollywood movies have sucked for decades and don't belong celebration. Star Wars is based off of Seven Samurai, Disney built its company on reboots (we just upset NOW because it's people of color replacing white actors when Hollywood has been whitewashed stories all along).
marketing.
How is it that every David Lynch movie was a flop?
Get so excited when I see the little blue dot next to 'Just an Observation'
You should have said that “fifty shades” was originally a fanfic of Twilight. So technically is just one big franchise haha
He did. He even mentioned her fanfic handle.
I usually don't really mind bad movies when you can tell that they don't have a negative impact on the film industry. As big as the Twilight phenomenon was, did it send us to a dark age of young adult romantic vampire blockbusters? Aside from spawning the Fifty Shades franchise, it didn't really affect mainstream cinema.
The same can be said about the Avatar movies. Those are films that I don't respect for their writing (and their font choice). But aside from being technically innovative, I don't really see their cultural impact.
Personally I'm a lot more bothered by the success of the live action Disney remakes. But that's mostly because I want Disney to be that company that produces animated classics, instead of making inferior versions of those classics as their main product. And lately, I don't see how they're using that live action money for making more original movies. I kinda miss the days in which their bad writing went into the direct to video sequels.
I think Pattison should be more grateful, those movies may be pretty bad, but they put him on the map, not sure if his follow-up projects would have achieved that, if they were his first roles....
Boyhood didn't win Best Director, that went to Birdman 🤓but great video as always! Very insightful because I haven't seen any of these movies and I never will hahaha!
“Go to the movies” is the key phrase.
I don’t really care to go to purely dramatic movies at the movie theatre, even a toonie theatre (do those still exist).
I go to movies at the theatre where:
- there characters or scenes that are amplified by the size of the screen and the power of the sound system (sci fi, action, adventure)
- being immersed in a large audience who all are (hopefully) there to experience the movie for what it is will increase the enjoyment of the movie through co-enjoyment (horror, comedy)
Dramas (aka Oscar bait) can be awesome cinematic experiences, but in current day you almost never need anything more than your modern home theatre. Even a 50” QLED and a sound bar will do for dramas.
Why pay $30 as a couple to go to a theatre for a drama where almost nothing is amplified or needs to be amplified by the audio video setup. Wait for rental and pay $6, or maybe even wait til it hits a streaming service within your subscription.
Movie theatres best serve movies that deliver some amount of spectacle or that benefit most from a gathered audience of common mind.
Interesting video. I think the Dakota Johnson bit was kinda harsh. She's shown her acting talent in films like Suspiria (2018), The Lost Daughter, and Bad Times At the El Royale. I still have yet to watch A Bigger Splash. In the right role, she's actually pretty great.
i'm kinda just thankful that quality movies, artful movies, challenging movies even get made- the economics of making the next Fast and Furious sequel is hard to beat, going by the numbers.
Awesome!! And spotlighting two franchises I've never wanted to see (and haven't!) but still loathe with all my being!! Hahaha....thank you!!
Fav channel atm let's goooo
Why is a 100 year old vampire still going to high school 😂
Bad movies still making big box office. Movies have been overall trash for a long while now.
Movies have always been trash and movies have always been great.
We tend to look back on just the same couple of movies from a bygone era that were awesome and we tend to forget the bad ones.
I don’t know which great movies from the past you’re thinking about, but I could probably also name amazing current movies to match them in each of their respective genres.
@@erik1579 Yes, the ratio between good and bad movies has always been roughly the same. There's just a whole lot more movies now. It's the same with music or any other piece of art, really.
Gen x/older millenial women with steady incomes go to the movies bro. It happens. And you GOT to give people what they want. And what they want is to live vicariously through young attractive stand ins in unhealthy relationships as it wont have a negative effect on their lives.
Why do you say it like that?
@suezcontours6653 gen x/older millenial men got the movies bro. It happens. you GOT to give the people what they want. And what they want to see is the action figures they used to smash together as 8 year olds get smashed together except this time with a 50 million dollar cgi budget.
Jokes aside I say it like that because media created for women tend to be treated like it came from another planet by video essayist on the tube. But they aren't from another planet. They are right here. And we should take the time to understand them, and stop sonning them for liking what they like. After all, they have pretended to be into what we like for a long ass time.
The problem is that both escapist fantasies and high art are judged by the same metric - opening box office weekend sales. We go to the theater to be entertained, but we watch movies for something more. What we see at the theater isn’t always a reflection of our interests and tastes. What we watch at home, alone, or with a loved one, is a better reflection of what we actually want. Unfortunately there are no numbers to reflect the success of a movie long-term, at least none widely known and talked about. Birdman may have made less money on opening weekend, but people are still watching it to this day. Whereas twilight is all but forgotten, reduced to a meme and nothing more.
Art cannot be judged by the same standards as entertainment. Not if we want a clear picture of what people WANT from their movies.
Very well said.
This statement sounds nice, but is ultimately false. Twilight hasn't been forgotten, it is literally the topic of this very video released in 2024. When the films were added to Netflix during Covid, it made resurgence in the pop culture and continued to trend on Twitter for weeks at a time. There have even been several new books added to the franchise in the time since the movies released that have all been financially successful. Hell, they've literally green lit a new Twilight television reboot as recently as last year that is in development as we speak. The Twilight franchise is alive and well in the pop culture; Birdman, like most best picture winners/nominees, is not. Don't get me wrong, it will always sit amongst the elite collection of films that are best picture winners/nominees, but as both box office and pop culture sentiment has shown it is a relatively forgotten film outside of pure cinephiles.
I do agree about the difference between what we watch to feel entertained and what we watch out of pure admiration, nor am I trying to 'defend' Twilight or anything, but lets keep the facts straight in discussions such as this- Twilight still has a thriving fanbase, which does out-match the smaller, more critical fanbase behind films like Birdman. Both can be culturally relevant in their own unique ways. What may be high art to you and me, may be crap to others.
I find it weird that an actor would hate a role so much yet continuously take on that role, not once, not twice, or thrice, but FOUR times.
Whatever pays the bills.
Or, alternatively, signed a multi-film contract they could not get out from.
Coming hot in this one, really nice.
An insightful visual essay...you make your case in a constructive way. And though I agree that it's better to keep cinema active for a broad public, I'm reminded that even some of the best writers of fiction had also to publish a bit of trash just to feed a reading market (Dickens' serial pieces, for instance. Mostly forgotten today). There will always be a variance in quality, but I'm glad even for the existence of bad movies if that means that cinema has a chance to remain active as an art form.
Yeah, and a lot of directors started with doing TV commercials or cheap schlock they didn't have much control over.
I really admire Robert Pattison's honesty🤣
Mr Sunday Movies said about the Twilight movies: "They're not very good, but boy is there a lot to talk about!"
New video yay!
I know right i love his breakdowns
😩
I highly disagree with the point that its alright from a big picture point of view. The consequences in the long term are severe and probably too gradual for us to notice. But its essentially like training, both the audience and the producers, to like and therefore ask for, bad movies. In the long term, it makes it harder and harder for the movies that actually respect the art, to survive (at first) and to even be viable (as an end result at some point in the future). I have not watched Twilight nor 50 shades of grey and havent read any of the books either. I just disagree with the premise. But im often wrong and tend to think out loud (through my keyboard).
Keep it up!
Peter Griffin from Family Guy once said "Sometimes You Gotta Start With Doing Crap Before You Get To The Good" yeah that quote from him in the early days of Family Guy summarizes both Twilight & 50 Shades of Grey and many other bad movies in a nutshell
I’m not saying 50 shades of gray was better than any of those 5 movies that won Oscar’s but if we’re being honest, Oscar nominations and wins really don’t mean what they used to anymore. It’s like presidential nominees, sure all the candidates in a primary have levels of success and experience as politicians, but we all know there’s 10 more deserving better candidates who didn’t even make it to the stage because they didn’t have the money and friends those who are on stage have. Award shows work the same way
Seeing Breaking Dawn Part 2 in theathers was the greatest experience ever. Everyone was freaking out then the twist happens and EVERYONE lost their shit even more. Amazing
I was dragged into the theatre to see it and pretty much the very first thing that happens is that dude ripping off his shirt. I just completely lost it and did not recover until it was over.
Twilight and Birdman are both entertainment. To take that statement any further is to be subjective, not factual
Dakota Johnson has been in two good Luca Guadagnino films.
Just watched Twilight with my girlfriend. Compared to most big budget movies today they were decent 😂
Nah dude you watched the Twilight zone!!
i find this framing quite strange. if we're talking about meritocracy, come on, hollywood was never a space for meritocracy. who gets to make movies, what movies get to be made are not chosen for the merits. by rather who's attached to them. this was the case even before the studios have become more risk averse and started making formulaic movies.
the choice of twilight and fifty shades of gray is also interesting, and calling the audience who enjoys these movies "audience who expected slops" is also quite a choice of words because yes, these books were not the pinnacle of literature but they appealed to big audience of people because they execute the well known tropes of romance genre and connect them to supernatural elements (in case of twilight) and kink community (in case of 50 shades). There's a lot of discussion to be had what kind of elements these movies executed well or not, but the fact of the matter is they spoke to people.
like these movies have a lot of problems we get it okay. Lets actually criticize them for the racism, sexism toward the characters who are not Bella, damn imprinting, lets criticize these points.
and with all that a lot of people still loved it. but like this is different conversation then just "oh bad movies are becoming hits".
and even with all these problems, there are other critically acclaimed movies that have the same issues as twilight (racism and sexism in their plots) yet their audiences don't get bashed. and for that matter do you think people who watched twilight never watched marvel? and there clearly are bad movies that were box office hits like idk "Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs" i just googled that. But when there's a thinkpiece it's always the twilight movies brought up.
They were fun movies period. The disdain some people have for media aimed at teenage girls and young women is weird. Let females have fun at the movies. Also let us stop being so judgmental about sex and cheesy love triangles. It's ok to let people like what they like without being a snarky jerk about it.
50 shades of shite is alright.
If one can't get a midnight bite.
Yeaaaah
Let's get this video to a lot of views in the first hour so that it gets love from youtube
Algorithm bless this video which i liked even before watching it because it's that good
Seriously, sometimes i end up pissed off because i can't like it again after watching it, fix that youtube
Lots of words lots of engagement, yadda yadda
when talking about movies and shows i would say the last 5 to 6 years were especially weird
Does someone know where this RUclipsr is from? I know he's from the UK but where exactly? I'm asking cause I love accents and I wanna know where his is from.
Pretty sure he’s Irish
@@JustanObservation Thank you for answering haha. I'm pretty happy cause that was my guess (as a non native English speaker). Interesting video btw!
When bad movies get made, EVERYONE loses, because culture devolves.
This is literally the same as to why they keep pumping out trash reality shows.
People want to escape their everyday reality for simple, fun, sometimes trashy stories/ drama so they can laugh and gossip about it to their peers.
Not everybody wants to constantly sit through a 2-3 hour film that requires you to turn on your thinking cap and analyze every damn detail and its complex stories and characters.
Shameless guilty pleasure is what it is. I personally enjoy both.
The Oscar masterpieces and the cheesy cringe filled Hallmark films.
They both fill separate desires at different times. I think most can appreciate and enjoy both for various reasons.
HOWEVER, my biggest issue is the constant empty and hollow remakes, sequels and DEI driven movies. THAT is what is ruining Hollywood.
Oh he’s so salty, it’s fantastic.
What a weirdly mean spirited take. Even as a middle aged man who has no interest in ever watching (or reading) Twilight or FSG and is 99% sure that I would find them incredibly dull this seems a strangely aggressive attack on those that do.
You seem to categorise everyone that watched either franchise as slop guzzling morons only fit to provide the movie industry with the capital to make "proper art" for the more elite sophisticated (read the video author) to enjoy. Most people don't only like one kind of thing. Almost everyone who watched the movies in question will also have watched and enjoyed other types of movies as well (ones that JAO would "approve" of).
I enjoy your videos but rather than finding any artistic or entertainment based merit in these films you just seems to shit on them, and worse shit on those that watched them. I am sure there are several better ways to explore the popularity of these films. I am certainly not creative enough to do that but disappointing that such a normally good RUclipsr is also not.
Sure the next video will be back to the usual quality
you're generally a great channel, I say this as sb who likes yr videos. This take is kinda weird, there are tons of way more boring and worse made action movies targeted to men that are called fun bc they're dumb. It sounds kind of misogynistic to imply the ones for women are sooo bland and exaggerate how the men who acted in it don't like it
Same feeling here, usually the videos are well thought out and now it was basically “Twilight bad.” The video had literally the shallowest take on why those movies were so popular, which tells me that no research went into making this since there are so many fantastic articles and video essays “defending” them. Also comparing these movies to something like the Birdman and Citizen Kane is extremely disingenuous since they are, much like Bayhem films, the movie equivalent of junk food. It’s frustrating that anything made for (or by) women has to be something amazing to be considered good whereas less than mediocre movies made for a primarily male audience tend to get a pass.
This video to me screams “I don’t have an idea for a video but have to post something, what takes minimal effort and pleases the algorithm?”
Please. Money talks. Always has..... always
I've never seen fifty shades of grey
Yeah I'm not showing my girlfriend this one. I like living.
Dakota Johnson works better in low budget indie comedies like The Peanut Butter Falcon and Cha Cha Real Smooth, where her performances are actually pretty effective
SAX sells 👍🏽
Dakota Johnson had Susperia (2018). I don't care what anyone says. That movie is a masterpiece.
Not really surprising that the masses gravitate towards crap... if things were flipped and the masses were gravitating towards the intellectual stuff, we would witness an entirely different society around us. But our society exists on a knife's edge balance in which just enough intellectual stuff gets through to not tumble everything into stupifying chaos. If the masses wanted intellectual stuff more, we would also see a world filled with calm and constructive debates, people working towards solutions instead of fighting over who's fault it was or who's wrong. It's therefor not that controversial to say the masses like crap because the masses are mostly just stupid and like to dwell in such crap. Because it's a fact of many forms of statistics, only toned down so as to not be mean to the masses.
Dakota Johnson was excellent in ‘Cha Cha Real Smoth’
Dakota Johnson was great in Suspiria 2018
you know you have free will right? if it was the question that more "interesting" videos were not on the theaters because of theses pieces of trash, which is not the case... plus lets face boyhood was not that great
Contrapoints has a great video on Twilight and why it captured audiences. Both of these franchises are targeted to girls and women respectively in an era where box office hits were primarily targeted to boys and men. Your take on this is disappointing because it feels like it is judging these harder than 99% of crap franchises that have a male audience.
EDIT: for clarity sake, I’m not saying Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey are good, they are bad entertainment.
I don't like Dakota Johnson but she's great in suspiria
A decade of an era is wild
Tell me you don't understand camp without telling me you don't understand camp = this video
So bad it's good, 100%
I can't say. I tried to watch "50 Shades of Grey," but just couldn't make it; was not interested in the "hot, young, sexy vampires." I am not teenager but, I will take Bela Lugosi anytime over this young crew.
This video seemed too biased against 50 Shades of Gray and Twilight. You showed other clips of movies yet only mentioned them in passing like "Fun movie bad."
Um bro the video is about those two franchises wtf
Boyhood did NOT win Best Director. Birdman did
My mistake. It won the BAFTA not Oscar
even as someone who desperately wants to be in the industry, i could never imagine being so upset about movies like these. they’re fun. you’re (not you specifically mr. Just an Observation) telling me that you’ve never wanted to sit down and watch a mindless comedy or shitty drama just because? i think that a lot of these film snobs who are ONLY snobs think it makes them look more intelligent, but it only ever presents them as incapable of getting along with others. most of my favorite movies are beautiful, auteur driven films, but i think the majority of what i watch is “slop.” it’s not impossible to understand why these movies make more, but so many people try to act like there’s some brain eating parasite in people that makes them want to watch a marvel movie. holy shit just use *your* brain. even the great filmmakers enjoy “slop.” you can’t only learn from what’s “good.” there’s no façade you need to keep up with to be a filmmaker. loosen up!
Kyra, your bad taste is ripe for the industry you want so desperately maintain. There's hope for you.
Just an observation.
Women watch low budget, shit movies and TV
There's always going to be people with bad taste so it's no surprise those movies made money.
Yeah, Star Wars boys and Transformers gear heads. Sorry but this trend of bad movies was started by the MALES who kept giving Michael Bay money - he's the Tyler Perry of Action blockbuster movies
First
Jack and Jill🤮🤮🤮
Most people don't want to feel stupid when they watch a movie or a series. So, when some intellectual calls them "the mass" and a movie stupid, they know they'll be among peers watching it.
That's just an oberservation..
Ive just finished watching your video on Nacho Varga
I'm sorry, I find it obnoxious when an actor badmouths his own film. Imagine having worked there in graphic design, and the main face is talking shit about the project after getting paid THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS... it's very hypocritical. I think all actors can have their opinions, but these are things that are best discussed with family and friends, not sinking your own ship.
As for the Twilight and Fifty Shades hate, I think both fandoms are victims of generalized hatred of things that succeed with women: there's no reason why a movie can't be hollow and fun. Or do you measure garbage like Transformers and Fast and Furious with the same yardstick? There's a lot of misogyny behind that. Let people be happy and enjoy their fantasies. I'm not a fan myself, but I UNDERSTAND why they resonate so much with people and I find it AMAZING that it generates community.
Oh I'm just wondering what has been going on since 2008 that has made most people want to see rather shallow escapism in movies? Ah yes global financial crisis and recession after the mess of the mortgage crisis. Life’s shitty and bad let’s watch some simple stuff to forget about it for a moment or two… Maybe that’s the simple explanation 😉
Honestly, this seems very mean spirited of you. Because yes, you’re not outright insulting the audiences who enjoy this but you’re insinuating it and it’s odd because is it necessary? You don’t like it, that’s fine. Do other people do yes. You’re coming like such a pretentious snob.
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Yeah, Citizen Kane debuted a lot of filmmaking techniques that are still used today, but it was god-awfully boring.
Please stop glazing this film as if it was a good movie. LoL
And believe or not critical drinker and his cronies want Hollywood to go back to that era.
Not having every film made to conform to blackrock’s ‘forced behaviour’ score doesn’t mean making films like twilight again
Well, the 50 shades of grey is cinematographically bad. But moviegoers got to enjoy Dakota Johnson's bewbies.
Nah, we watched that because we couldn't BELIEVE such trash got the greenlight. After the initial hype of the first movie we stopped supporting that franchise. I didn't even see the last one anywhere, not in theatres, dvd or streaming.
women
For people slagging off this video saying its hypocritical for focusing on "female" movies, its because the main stars admit, along with fans that they are crap, he does mention action franchises aimed at men but the stars of those are not so critical.
other actors have said similar things about being in some stupid action films
@@bouncyshak No. Star Wars doesn't count because the main intel fanbase just hates it because it has diverse leads
Dakota Johnson already gave us something great when she called out Ellen right to her face. 💀
Dakota Johnson never called out anyone, all the woman knows how to do is whisper. 🤣🤣🤮🤮
I think an underrated part of why these movies were popular is because the audiences for these types of films often aren't catered to by big budget movies, or at least weren't really getting sold to at the time. Mainstream romances and rom coms were in a downward spiral over this time period.
Dumb movies have always existed, and even been popular, especially when there's an element of wish fullfillment. Look at the 1980s and all the Rocky and Rambo sequels. Or the Transformer movies from the same era as Twilight.
If a part of the market is ignored, and someone makes a movie for them, they'll make $$$
You can't compare the Rocky sequels to Twilight. Twilight as a story was just plain weak, but the Rocky sequels (minus the fifth which was never as popular) were good stories that just didn't have the depth of the previous films.
My friend would like this video a lot. He was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders right before she died.
sorry for your loss 😔
Is this a Madame web reference?
@@ramclau yes
@@WillyGrippo oh good. Now I don't feel bad for laughing 😅
7:42 lmfao
I think she was pretty good in "the peanut butter Falcon"
I may be in the minority on this one, but I thoroughly enjoyed and still do enjoy twilight. I loom forward to watching it on rainy days 😭
The whole video is kind of saying how this is actually, surprisingly, the majority despite technically them not being what's expected.
@@sarahluana1679Upon Twilights initial release in theatre, I didn’t believe this movie was “bad.” I still don’t think it’s bad, I wasn’t surprised it did so well.
@@sarahluana1679Upon Twilights initial release into theatre, I didn’t believe it was “bad”. I still don’t believe it’s bad, I wasn’t surprised it did so well.
Never thought I'll defend Twilight on this channel, but as a teenage girl when the first film came out, the female-oriented young adult content was a drought. The boys get their pile of shit (i.e. Transformers with HYPERsexualized Megan Fox), but there's nothing for us. I stuck with the franchise before realizing how bad it was in the second one, but did not regret enjoying it. It's fun to laugh at the Twilight saga now, but the franchise made generations of female re-engage with books and fantasy genre as a whole. I'll still take this franchise over late phase MCU (which used to be my entire personality).
Late phase MCU isn't pro-pedophilia. Twilight is.
I'm a big defender of the "business" in show business, because I want sustainable art and the only way to be sustainable is to be profitable. So my criticism falls entirely on the fans, the audience. This is what people want, you have to accept it, and you can criticize them for it. In short, I pretty much agree with what you presented.
how did this get made podcast recently had episodes on the fifty shades movies. its fun and worth a listen.
dont ever watch the movies alone, they’re most fun with friends to make fun of.
I mean the way to look at it is these moves are transformers but marketed towards women.
Yeah... the actors wanted their big break. They sold their seriousness on these projects they were clearly embarrassed by in order to make their debuts.
When that head chip that records the stuff inside our heads debuts, then we'll really know that our subconscious is full of ridiculous movies, which explains their appeal.
MTV and Nickelodeon pushed twilight hard and it worked somehow
"The average person is stupid, and the other half is even stupider than that"
These people like stupid Movies and pay to see them.
Lol at the pinata metaphor!
3:48 In the font used in the video, 90th kinda looks like the word goth
Now you will never unsee it too
Transformers: Age of Extinction was the worst movie of 2014 yet the top grossing of the year. 🤦🏽♂️
Dakota Johnson was great in Cha Cha Real Smooth and The Lost Daughter
This is how I feel abt TASM2. The general public doesn’t like the film and thinks it’s bad but it’s one of my favorites to watch. And I know that the story isn’t the best but the thing that carries it for me is Andrew Garfield’s performance and the visuals
Definitely
I love that film❤
Think it's called lamp shading. You can have terrible writing if everyone is in on the joke.
This is a weird subjective take on the whole matter. Not everyone disliked/hated Twilight/Fifty Shades. Theres genuinely a large fandom for it and obviously a big interest in these stories which is why they made money at the box office. There have been multiple films over the last decades that have been considered a "hit" but not all of us have necessarily enjoyed or even watched them. Why are Top Gun/TFATF "fun bad films" but Twilight/Fifty Shades are a disgrace to art and its audience therefore stupid and devoted of taste? Its always the movies that cater to a more female audience that get this type of hate and ridicule.