To me the most amazing is the fact you never go out of new fresh ideas. I'm watching to your videos in almost 10 yrs and it's always something interesting and attractive...
I remember playing a fairly prestigious and renowned London music club venue and the headliners had a full Marshall stack each. It sounded very washy - too much volume for the venue
I saw Motorhead in a bar and Lemmy had three full stacks. I was right in front of him knees against the stage. The guitar player also had three full stacks. This was in a bar in San Diego called canes. Can’t believe I survived!
lemmy always had his 2 bass rigs on either side of the drums, one turned slightly to point towards him on stage. and they were pretty impressive - a 4x15 bottom cab with a 4x12 on top and a marahall 100 watt superbass amp. i saw them live several times they were always one of the best sounding bands i ever heard - mostly because the bass was very prominent in the mix of sound and had a sound that i really liked. not just a normal bass sound.
I'm a guitar player, who's been Alvin Lee's guitar tech on big stages, and my job now is designing recording studios. I could be wrong (of course) with what I am about to propose, but hear me out on this: the traditional wall of Marshalls is generally set up in an enormous room or outdoors, so there are almost no reflections coming straight back from a facing wall. the sound gets almost entirely soaked up by those lucky, sweaty, punters. In this experimental example you are getting multiple bounces from the room itself: floor, walls and ceiling. Standing where you were standing, (or listening via those mics) you are hearing far more than the direct sounds. Yes you are correct that with the traditional stacks at a big show, most of what you see is not used. Often the bottom row is simply a stand for the top row. Some of the amps will be spares on standby. Sometimes none of it is getting used. The biggest difference I heard was when you went from one stack to two where it suddenly sounded '3-D', and this is because two very similar but not identical sounds sources are placed very close together. Even the speakers differ slightly in performance one to another, and they are all in different physical relation to each other and the reflecting surfaces, plus they will have different edge diffraction due to their locations on that front plane. The end result being a glorious mess of phase cancellation and reinforcement. Having said all of that, this was a very fun experiment. Thank you Johan!
Thanks Robert! Alvin Lee is a legend, and I really appreciate your input. You’re absolutely correct, at the mics it is a complete mayhem of sound waves in all directions. I’m gonna try and do a movie where I move the mic pair around and compare the resulting sounds. Cheers Johan
Aggressive and intense! 2 things that guitarists always need more of! 3 full stacks, pushing enough air to pin your ears back. Glorious! God bless and stack on 👍🎸😎
I'm so glad that this channel handles the questions that are really important to mankind. For someone growing up with Clapton, Townshend, Hendrix, Page, etc., I think the answer was given on beforehand. However, you made a very clear statement (as always): Wonderful coupling between the stacks, particularly all three! On a side note: I love the sound from the '71 T1281's. Few things sound better. Thanks Johan!
Wow! The variability between those cabs of close '70-'72 vintage is really striking--wasn't expecting them to be that dissimilar! Always learn something new with your amazing videos JS...you are a national treasure of Sweden, and the Internet!
That was great, so interesting, and what a load of work! I'm not having much time to watch anything, but later on I'll have to give it another listen on better headphones.
This was really interesting! All the cabs just seem to blend together. I think the most interesting thing was that it was still very Marshally, but turned into something else. I think the phase cancellation is a major factor, but I really have no idea what’s causing such a massive eq shift. Fantastic video as always!
Wow, what a video! Thanks for sharing!!! As a guy who spent way too much time in the early/mid '70s dreaming of a wall of Marshalls; staring lovingly at my '74 Marshall catalog(ue) (which I still have), building little cardboard Marshall stacks for a toy action figure (that I also made a Les Paul for) and ultimately getting a big roll of paper and drawing full size Marshall stacks to hang on my basement walls, I find I still get chills when I see a wall of Marshalls! I think the blend of the various Celestion voices sounds better than any one particular flavor! Johan, you're a lucky man to get to experience the grandeur of the wall of Marshalls by putting them through their paces!
The three stacks sound awesome! I’m slightly deaf from my Hiwatt and Soundcity stacks. We used to rehearse in a church miles from anywhere, we used to think it was fun to crank them! I will never forget the sheer visceral power of the sound pressure levels the drummer could not be heard.
Sir, is that sound lever and or or spectrum enough for cleaning the paintings on your wall? Anyway, the three stacks sounds warmer and more multidimensional even through my market level headphones. However, for recording solos, one loud stack might yield more defined or concentrated sound. I am far from being an acoustician, but maybe higher frequencies don't phase out each other. But that's what happens even with acoustic instruments: if there are more than one of them, their position and distance affects the total sonic picture. The sound of two (or more) can get mixed or defined from each other.
I like with all 3 because the curve is planner than with just 1. I mean the cancellation effect of the 3 together helps to reduce the peaks and deeps so you use less post eq in the mixing. I love the way you make your experiments, it is very scientific and accurate for the analysing. 👏 bravo Johan!!
More louder is better! In all seriousness, if 2 Marshall Stacks are better than a single stack then 3 would be just what the doctor ordered for a large venue using a vintage PA Vocal System. I'm old enough to remember concerts that didn't run every instrument through the main PA System. That is why one of my Bucket List Items was a Vintage Marshall Plexi. 👍😉 Great Content Johan.
Seemed to me when the 3rd stack comes in the sound fills out some - maybe because of wall coupling to the wall next to the 3rd stack? The close mike sounds were surprisingly different for each cab. I think the blend of all of them to the room mikes makes the magic. Very cool experiment! You will simply need some roadies to help you move all those amps around when playing out.
Thanks for this extremely impressive video. You've done a lot of work for an ungrateful planet of silly men. I learned something from this video. It's shocking what it can do to the room and ultimately the recording 😕 😐 🙄 Just acquiring those speakers today is an impossible task. I'll have to think about this for a few years 🤔 It's a big difference, as you say. I'm aware these days that Randy Rhoads tribute sound clearly IS 3 full stacks. But thanks to the internet, we're aware of what's going into the sounds. Treasure your 3 stack setup, Johan. You've achieved a GREAT GOAL IN LIFE.
What a channel. It's hard to believe we can get this type of information. As always Johan, thanks for sharing this stuff with us. Most people would get tired of dumb comments and say fuck it but you keep on. Thank you so much.
LOVE this one Johan - I currently play 2 4x12 cabinets (a mesa with v30s + a marshall with greebacks) and two amps (a mesa dr + a ceriatone hot-rodded jcm800) much to the dismay of every soundperson at every club I play. I remember testing out the double amp setup in my rehearsal space and the experience was amazing - once I heard and felt it I realized I couldn't go back (to playing just one amp), the combo is just killer. Be warned - you may end up playing multiple amps for the rest of your days!
Giving yourself a harder time for more boring-sounding results, is all that is. 💡In a club you wont be pushing the speakers into breakup, _especially_ by adding more of them. 💡 A single 12" in a Princeton or Deluxe will always get a more lively and interesting sound in clubs than any amount of 30-50 watt speakers _that are only being pushed to half their potential._ Listen with EARS not eyes. Bigger aint always better, Jack. Especially in smaller spaces.
With more speakers you can play at lower volume on the amp and still hearing you well live or in practice room with the band. Sometimes that sound better too. In a recording context where you mike one speaker that would be less relevant I think.
Johan, wonderful video! It was a little hard to keep track of the different mic variations. When you added other mics to the room only selection it achieved interesting sounds with great definition. There was one I forget now which was room plus addition with the three stacks on that was especially full and big sounding with beautiful deep sounding bass response-that was my favorite. I liked when you added the ‘75 in the far right lower corner too. The “room only” selection with the three stacks on at one time was the thinnest and weakest sounding of all and the selection I liked the very least. It tended to sound somewhat anemic at least by comparison.
Thanks Scott! The room mics are 2x Peluso 2247LE, then close mics are. LH Top: Unidyne IV 548, LH bottom MD421U5, MIDDLE top SM57, MIDDLE BOTTOM EV RE10, RH bottom Beyer M160
I'll never forget the first time I saw Yngwie's rig, back in early 1989. The moment the roadies dropped the covering sheets revealing 32 Marshall heads was jaw dropping! Not just for show either; as far as I know, they were all plugged in and cranked!
Snyggt Johan! Just one thing I have been wondering about lately (seeing you have both); How would you say the Iron Man 2 and the Power Station compare to each other tonally?
"Three Marshall full stacks daisy chained together" - Your the man Johan By the sounds, there's a big difference between just bottom and Bottom/top stacks together. It could just be mic placement but there wasn't as much of a difference adding the 3rd stack. Also certainly a difference adding the bottom bastardised cab with the celestion variety assortment 😆 I'm sure standing in front it would have sounded glorious though.....Power and Volume 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Very interesting. When all 6 were going the sound was much fuller. I do have a question though, were they in open back or closed and what is better for indoor room sound?
You could put magnets on the back panels of your cabs, and make it easier to remove them for your videos? Thanks for all the work you put in to make always interesting vids!
Fascinating. I'm listening through Studio Monitoring Headphones, and am hearing something different than what you're describing. I hear the single stack as clear, and articulate. As you add more stacks, the sound becomes less bright, more bass focused, and more muffled. This could be to the "in the room" experience, recording, RUclips Algorithm, different Ears, etc. But, whatever it is, it is clearly audible on my end, and I would be curious to know the cause. I preferred the single stack, and think it would sound good in a Mix. Thanks
Cool stuff again Johan! I think the "biggest" sound in the third can somewhat be affected by the placement of the third cab in the corner of the room. You seem to have hard walls behind the cabs which reflect all of the bass back. The first cab will therefore have more phase interactions (dips and boosts) than the the closer ones to the corner. Would be great to hear how much the cab position affects the room tone, and hopefully eliminate that to justify buying myself a third stack! :P
The old walls of amps were just artwork for the shows. One of the top studio recording people has put a 5w amp inside a fireplace conversion wood stove with a mic to record with. She has a youtube channel Sylvia something. She showed a rig where a lightbulb was used int eh signal chain (basically a resistor) and talks about other fun stuff. Beatles/Stones recorded in old castles. God Of Thunder by Kiss put Peter Criss's drum set in a building utility elevator to record.
From the room mics; 1 stack sounds thin. 2 sounds full and 3 sounds more compressed. That is what it sounds like to me from my laptop speakers. The mix of isolated and room mics gets some good metal tones. Close mics alone provides the oh so familiar rock sounds that we all know.
I'm listening with an imaginary band mix in my head. Two or three full stacks sounds huge. Two amps arguably sounds bigger than three because of the more distinct contrast between the two. Recording with two or three cabs like that seems as though it would make more sense if there's a lot of space in the mix. If you're recording a power trio without a lot of overdubs, I can definitely see the appeal of two or three distinct amps, but if you've got more than one or two guitars in the mix, you'd probably want less density in the mids.
Videos like this is why RUclips should have a "Love" button. 'Cause a simple "like" button just doesn't do it justice! Absolutely loved this video Johan, thanks!!
Me and my best friend saw Yngwie Malmsteen last fall. We were fromt row. In his wall of amps he had just 3 lite up as far as the power lights go. 2 were on top of each other in the wall of stacks and 1 was at the other end. If i remember right there was 15 or so amp heads total? I'm just guessing here but it looked like 2 of the amps were for Yngwie and the far off one was for the bass player. We did not get a look at the speaker cabs. But he sounded amazing! Ive been listening to him since 1984 and this was the 1st time seeing him live in concert. I'm glad I finally got to see him play live!
The third stack in the corner has a most of issues with low freq because the near walls boost of some of them. -Try a higher distance from back wall to clear the low end. -try to keep equal distance from side walls to enhance the stereo image. -try to put the cabs equal distance from mics center to get the mid-low corrected by timeing. And after that put a MS mic pair at ear level or where it sounds good for you. Enjoy
I like the two stacks. It's just in the goldilocks zone. That middle amp is special; and I thought cabs two and three were the punchiest. I think you should have tried them unattenuated, but then Bjørn upstairs gets cranky, right?
More air moving usually results in bigger tone...BUT... beware of phase issues. Placement of the cabs in the room, relative to each other and the walls, plus mic placement becomes a big factor. Edit: there clearly is a lot of comb filtering going on in the examples
Using all the cabs the sound seems fuller. Does the addition of all the speakers ressemble a PA speaker at the end ? I love the sound of the upper mid cab, the basketweave if I understand well, It reminds me my beloved old Laney with green goodmans. I don't know the difference between basketweave and checkerboard, only the grillcloth ?
First and second combined sound amazing on this. I wonder if the mix of the three could be tweaked a bit to pop a tiny more of the mid the middle stack added and then it would be stupid good.
Supposedly Hendrix used the whole stacks in the studio. I believe Eddie Kramer said it was crazy being in the studio and seeing the glass shake as he played.
Welcome to Hell 😊 Sounded great, I’ve been playing my 1972 Marshall JMP 50 through a restored Marshall 1962 4X12 alnico 15w speakers with hot plate power soak and it sounds amazing to me 😍
Could the difference be that your loosing signal integrity by daisy chaining pre amps together ? Thus the 1st amp is getting hit harder with the input ??
Call me crazy but I hear exactly the opposite to what you seem to hear. I found all 3 of them way too muffled (too much bass) and boomy with way less definition, while only one at a time sounded more pronounced to me. Clearer + punchy. …Hm… I liked the middle stack the best, especially the bottom cab (the bastard ; ) …I wonder which speaker did you mic on this particularly one?
It's kinda funny that the answer to the question "how to get the sound of a wall of Marshall stacks" isn't obviously "go get a wall of Marshall stacks" I didn't notice much difference between any of them, but it seemed to me the more speakers you had the less dynamics you had.
two heads with slightly or completely different set eq, are the absolute minimum for a full marshall sound. 4 are required for wet left, dry1+dry2, wet right. one head or fxleft-dry-fxright are possible only with a really magic and balanced head.
@@JohanSegeborn i set one magic(sweet not harsh) amp for the best possible tone alone and then i add a not so magic(harsher)one with a powerbrake to find the spot where it adds that extra which the first one lacks. different types of speakers always play the biggest role of course.
the easiest way to know when and if you have the old tone(s) is if, the instant you take your hands off the axe, or even dont mute correct, the entire cab howls back at you and frightens everyone. An attenuator in the middle of amp and cab insures this doesnt happen unfortunately . but even a good small amp can howl a bit so i'd take a straight to cab small amp over a choked off real amp
If it's inspiring then that's already a plus. It doesn't seem to sound bigger in the mix and I actually prefer to hear the single amp on its own. Anyway, if it looks cool, it sounds better. That's the simple fact.
@@JohanSegeborn Very interesting! Speaking of the room sound only, just to be clear. I'm listening through Audio-Technica ATH-M50x over-ear headphones. Not so much noticeable with the single line stuff, but moreso with the chords and double stop riffs. With the 1st stack only, the tone is brighter overall. With the 2nd stack added, the tone got significantly beefier in the mid-mids. With the 3rd added, the bottom-mids got beefier. I guess it's the relation between the frequency ranges that changes how you perceive them. The 3 stacks combined have the most balanced tone though, to my ear!
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HiCxoDeo0hc/mqdefault.jpg)
To me the most amazing is the fact you never go out of new fresh ideas. I'm watching to your videos in almost 10 yrs and it's always something interesting and attractive...
Thanks, I’m so glad to hear that!
Yes! This channel is great. Always learning something new and interesting
And from a soothing calm voice. Very chill.
I got banned from playing a pub without playing a single note. One look at my old plexi and they said NO. 😂
Hahaha! Wear that badge of honour! 😂🤘
I remember playing a fairly prestigious and renowned London music club venue and the headliners had a full Marshall stack each. It sounded very washy - too much volume for the venue
Halfstack?
Who carries it in and out of the venue?
BRAVO!!😜👊👊
Sounds absolutely huge. It brought an instant smile to my face.
Thanks! Glad to hear that!
Johan never does meaningless demos!❤❤❤❤
Thanks my friend
It does not get any more BADASS than this !!!
Thanks man! 😀
He's rocked the wallpaper off the wall!
I saw Motorhead in a bar and Lemmy had three full stacks. I was right in front of him knees against the stage. The guitar player also had three full stacks. This was in a bar in San Diego called canes. Can’t believe I survived!
Hahaha! They didn’t hold back
Motorhead perminantly damaged my hearing at a club gig back around 1990. They were so friggin loud
lemmy always had his 2 bass rigs on either side of the drums, one turned slightly to point towards him on stage. and they were pretty impressive - a 4x15 bottom cab with a 4x12 on top and a marahall 100 watt superbass amp. i saw them live several times they were always one of the best sounding bands i ever heard - mostly because the bass was very prominent in the mix of sound and had a sound that i really liked. not just a normal bass sound.
@@jeffoberleguitar
Never played in Australia 🇦🇺
Obviously weren't of suitable character.
They were really D grade quality in that style of music.
"I really prefer the entire wall it's much more aggressive and intense", lol...! Great vid.
Thanks! :-D
I'm a guitar player, who's been Alvin Lee's guitar tech on big stages, and my job now is designing recording studios. I could be wrong (of course) with what I am about to propose, but hear me out on this: the traditional wall of Marshalls is generally set up in an enormous room or outdoors, so there are almost no reflections coming straight back from a facing wall. the sound gets almost entirely soaked up by those lucky, sweaty, punters. In this experimental example you are getting multiple bounces from the room itself: floor, walls and ceiling. Standing where you were standing, (or listening via those mics) you are hearing far more than the direct sounds. Yes you are correct that with the traditional stacks at a big show, most of what you see is not used. Often the bottom row is simply a stand for the top row. Some of the amps will be spares on standby. Sometimes none of it is getting used. The biggest difference I heard was when you went from one stack to two where it suddenly sounded '3-D', and this is because two very similar but not identical sounds sources are placed very close together. Even the speakers differ slightly in performance one to another, and they are all in different physical relation to each other and the reflecting surfaces, plus they will have different edge diffraction due to their locations on that front plane. The end result being a glorious mess of phase cancellation and reinforcement. Having said all of that, this was a very fun experiment. Thank you Johan!
Thanks Robert! Alvin Lee is a legend, and I really appreciate your input. You’re absolutely correct, at the mics it is a complete mayhem of sound waves in all directions. I’m gonna try and do a movie where I move the mic pair around and compare the resulting sounds. Cheers Johan
Your demos never get old Johan,long may it continue,skaal 🤟🙏
Skål! Glad you like them Clive!
Aggressive and intense! 2 things that guitarists always need more of! 3 full stacks, pushing enough air to pin your ears back. Glorious! God bless and stack on 👍🎸😎
Thanks my friend!
I'm so glad that this channel handles the questions that are really important to mankind. For someone growing up with Clapton, Townshend, Hendrix, Page, etc., I think the answer was given on beforehand. However, you made a very clear statement (as always): Wonderful coupling between the stacks, particularly all three!
On a side note: I love the sound from the '71 T1281's. Few things sound better. Thanks Johan!
Thanks Bengt! Glad to hear that :-)
Wow! The variability between those cabs of close '70-'72 vintage is really striking--wasn't expecting them to be that dissimilar! Always learn something new with your amazing videos JS...you are a national treasure of Sweden, and the Internet!
Best video yet Johan. Thank-you!
Thanks, great to hear that!
Epic video, Johan! The difference between 2 and 3 stacks was actually surprising. Thanks for getting to the truth!!!
Thanks Andy!
Johan, you're an absolute maniac!😝 Love it, fantastic stuff as always!😊
Thanks Andy! It’s great to hear that!
It's like the old comparison. You have good, better, and best. Always fine playing!
Thanks Glen! Glad to hear that!
That was great, so interesting, and what a load of work! I'm not having much time to watch anything, but later on I'll have to give it another listen on better headphones.
Thanks! Glad to hear from you
More is more! As our Yngwie said.
This was really interesting! All the cabs just seem to blend together. I think the most interesting thing was that it was still very Marshally, but turned into something else. I think the phase cancellation is a major factor, but I really have no idea what’s causing such a massive eq shift.
Fantastic video as always!
Thanks, glad you like it!
Wow, what a video! Thanks for sharing!!!
As a guy who spent way too much time in the early/mid '70s dreaming of a wall of Marshalls; staring lovingly at my '74 Marshall catalog(ue) (which I still have), building little cardboard Marshall stacks for a toy action figure (that I also made a Les Paul for) and ultimately getting a big roll of paper and drawing full size Marshall stacks to hang on my basement walls, I find I still get chills when I see a wall of Marshalls!
I think the blend of the various Celestion voices sounds better than any one particular flavor!
Johan, you're a lucky man to get to experience the grandeur of the wall of Marshalls by putting them through their paces!
Thanks! Glad to hear it
Man that norlin LP custom almost looks like a burst with those cream plastics!!
Its lovely hearing your OWN feedback for once Johan!
Thanks, yeah many of those classic tones were 70s LPs with Super Distortion pickups
Ultimate tone. Johan. Greetings from Hawaii. Cheers
Thanks Darrell! Cheers from the Swedish west coast
Det här är varför du är bäst, du svarar på dem viktiga frågorna!!
Thanks my friend! 😉
Awesome sound. Marshall does those things.
Thanks!
The three stacks sound awesome!
I’m slightly deaf from my Hiwatt and Soundcity stacks. We used to rehearse in a church miles from anywhere, we used to think it was fun to crank them! I will never forget the sheer visceral power of the sound pressure levels the drummer could not be heard.
I’ll look forward to your findings, but I’ve played two stacks just for giggles and the horizontal spacing causes cancellations that are not fun.
Sir, is that sound lever and or or spectrum enough for cleaning the paintings on your wall? Anyway, the three stacks sounds warmer and more multidimensional even through my market level headphones. However, for recording solos, one loud stack might yield more defined or concentrated sound. I am far from being an acoustician, but maybe higher frequencies don't phase out each other. But that's what happens even with acoustic instruments: if there are more than one of them, their position and distance affects the total sonic picture. The sound of two (or more) can get mixed or defined from each other.
Thanks, great feedback
I like with all 3 because the curve is planner than with just 1. I mean the cancellation effect of the 3 together helps to reduce the peaks and deeps so you use less post eq in the mixing. I love the way you make your experiments, it is very scientific and accurate for the analysing. 👏 bravo Johan!!
Thanks! Great to hear that!
More louder is better!
In all seriousness, if 2 Marshall Stacks are better than a single stack then 3 would be just what the doctor ordered for a large venue using a vintage PA Vocal System.
I'm old enough to remember concerts that didn't run every instrument through the main PA System.
That is why one of my Bucket List Items was a Vintage Marshall Plexi. 👍😉
Great Content Johan.
Thanks HK! More louder is indeed always better! Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn ❤
Seemed to me when the 3rd stack comes in the sound fills out some - maybe because of wall coupling to the wall next to the 3rd stack? The close mike sounds were surprisingly different for each cab. I think the blend of all of them to the room mikes makes the magic. Very cool experiment! You will simply need some roadies to help you move all those amps around when playing out.
Thanks Russ!
Thanks for this extremely impressive video.
You've done a lot of work for an ungrateful planet of silly men.
I learned something from this video.
It's shocking what it can do to the room and ultimately the recording 😕 😐 🙄
Just acquiring those speakers today is an impossible task.
I'll have to think about this for a few years 🤔
It's a big difference, as you say.
I'm aware these days that Randy Rhoads tribute sound clearly IS 3 full stacks.
But thanks to the internet, we're aware of what's going into the sounds.
Treasure your 3 stack setup, Johan. You've achieved a GREAT GOAL IN LIFE.
What a channel. It's hard to believe we can get this type of information. As always Johan, thanks for sharing this stuff with us. Most people would get tired of dumb comments and say fuck it but you keep on. Thank you so much.
Thanks man! Really glad you watch the channel
Amazing comparison! The 3 full stacks was so much richer - seemed to fill in any gaps. Attenuators off next time 😂
Thanks Eddie! 😂
Thanks Johan, this was cool. Only my opinion, I thought the double stack was superb. It seemed to have the best overall tone. Cheers!
Cheers!
LOVE this one Johan - I currently play 2 4x12 cabinets (a mesa with v30s + a marshall with greebacks) and two amps (a mesa dr + a ceriatone hot-rodded jcm800) much to the dismay of every soundperson at every club I play. I remember testing out the double amp setup in my rehearsal space and the experience was amazing - once I heard and felt it I realized I couldn't go back (to playing just one amp), the combo is just killer. Be warned - you may end up playing multiple amps for the rest of your days!
That sounds awesome man, keep fighting the good fight!
Thanks! Sounds like a nice rig
Now that’s a combo I could use!
Wank factor.
Giving yourself a harder time for more boring-sounding results, is all that is.
💡In a club you wont be pushing the speakers into breakup, _especially_ by adding more of them. 💡
A single 12" in a Princeton or Deluxe will always get a more lively and interesting sound in clubs than any amount of 30-50 watt speakers _that are only being pushed to half their potential._ Listen with EARS not eyes.
Bigger aint always better, Jack. Especially in smaller spaces.
With more speakers you can play at lower volume on the amp and still hearing you well live or in practice room with the band. Sometimes that sound better too. In a recording context where you mike one speaker that would be less relevant I think.
Thanks a good point!
That is of course if you don't need power amp distortion. For bass guitar this is may be more relevant.
Johan, wonderful video! It was a little hard to keep track of the different mic variations. When you added other mics to the room only selection it achieved interesting sounds with great definition. There was one I forget now which was room plus addition with the three stacks on that was especially full and big sounding with beautiful deep sounding bass response-that was my favorite. I liked when you added the ‘75 in the far right lower corner too. The “room only” selection with the three stacks on at one time was the thinnest and weakest sounding of all and the selection I liked the very least. It tended to sound somewhat anemic at least by comparison.
Thanks Scott! The room mics are 2x Peluso 2247LE, then close mics are. LH Top: Unidyne IV 548, LH bottom MD421U5, MIDDLE top SM57, MIDDLE BOTTOM EV RE10, RH bottom Beyer M160
@@JohanSegeborn Thanks for the info!
I'll never forget the first time I saw Yngwie's rig, back in early 1989. The moment the roadies dropped the covering sheets revealing 32 Marshall heads was jaw dropping! Not just for show either; as far as I know, they were all plugged in and cranked!
Would be interesting to know how many of them that was plugged in. His sound guys must have hated him 😂
@@JohanSegeborni have the same crumar cpb-1 bass pedals yngwie uses...not much content out there about bass pedals
Superb Leading by Example!
Cheers 😃
Snyggt Johan! Just one thing I have been wondering about lately (seeing you have both); How would you say the Iron Man 2 and the Power Station compare to each other tonally?
Thanks! Both are top notch. I have never compared them actually
I saw Robin Trower play a medium club in Arlington, Texas with three full 100W stack. So painful, I had to stand back about 100 feet!
Beautiful!
"Three Marshall full stacks daisy chained together" - Your the man Johan
By the sounds, there's a big difference between just bottom and Bottom/top stacks together. It could just be mic placement but there wasn't as much of a difference adding the 3rd stack. Also certainly a difference adding the bottom bastardised cab with the celestion variety assortment 😆
I'm sure standing in front it would have sounded glorious though.....Power and Volume 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Thanks Peter!
Very interesting. When all 6 were going the sound was much fuller. I do have a question though, were they in open back or closed and what is better for indoor room sound?
Thanks! They were also closed back which is they were designed. Some prefer open back Marshall 4x12 for instance Duane Allman did
You could put magnets on the back panels of your cabs, and make it easier to remove them for your videos? Thanks for all the work you put in to make always interesting vids!
Thanks for the idea! Glad you like the videos.
Wow, middel B cab is just sweet
Thank! Glad to hear it!
Fascinating. I'm listening through Studio Monitoring Headphones, and am hearing something different than what you're describing. I hear the single stack as clear, and articulate. As you add more stacks, the sound becomes less bright, more bass focused, and more muffled. This could be to the "in the room" experience, recording, RUclips Algorithm, different Ears, etc. But, whatever it is, it is clearly audible on my end, and I would be curious to know the cause. I preferred the single stack, and think it would sound good in a Mix. Thanks
Yeah the single stack is indeed the brightest and most scooped sound. Tone is certainly a matter of preference
Cool stuff again Johan!
I think the "biggest" sound in the third can somewhat be affected by the placement of the third cab in the corner of the room. You seem to have hard walls behind the cabs which reflect all of the bass back. The first cab will therefore have more phase interactions (dips and boosts) than the the closer ones to the corner. Would be great to hear how much the cab position affects the room tone, and hopefully eliminate that to justify buying myself a third stack! :P
Thanks, highly relevant feedback. Good idea for a video
The old walls of amps were just artwork for the shows. One of the top studio recording people has put a 5w amp inside a fireplace conversion wood stove with a mic to record with. She has a youtube channel Sylvia something. She showed a rig where a lightbulb was used int eh signal chain (basically a resistor) and talks about other fun stuff. Beatles/Stones recorded in old castles. God Of Thunder by Kiss put Peter Criss's drum set in a building utility elevator to record.
You're the man Johan!
Cheers! 😉
I can imagine that the complete wall sounds fantastic in the room, but I have to say from my computer speakers I prefer one amp
You experience it primarily through the headphones in the room too, for obvious reasons
Fantastic
Thanks Mark
A soundman would appreciate a wall of Marshalls... ;)
Hahaha! 😂
NOT!
The king of the blues uses walls of marshalls.well done my friend.🌹❤❤⚘🙏🎸🎸🎸
Thanks my friend
All 3 stacks sounds amazing :)
Great to hear that!
I like it. I like it a lot.
Thanks! Glad to hear it
From the room mics; 1 stack sounds thin. 2 sounds full and 3 sounds more compressed. That is what it sounds like to me from my laptop speakers.
The mix of isolated and room mics gets some good metal tones. Close mics alone provides the oh so familiar rock sounds that we all know.
Thanks!
Amazing 👏👏👏👏
Thanks Isac!
I'm listening with an imaginary band mix in my head. Two or three full stacks sounds huge. Two amps arguably sounds bigger than three because of the more distinct contrast between the two. Recording with two or three cabs like that seems as though it would make more sense if there's a lot of space in the mix. If you're recording a power trio without a lot of overdubs, I can definitely see the appeal of two or three distinct amps, but if you've got more than one or two guitars in the mix, you'd probably want less density in the mids.
Yeah indeed, this collides with everything in the mix
Videos like this is why RUclips should have a "Love" button. 'Cause a simple "like" button just doesn't do it justice! Absolutely loved this video Johan, thanks!!
Thanks my friend ❤️
Me and my best friend saw Yngwie Malmsteen last fall. We were fromt row. In his wall of amps he had just 3 lite up as far as the power lights go. 2 were on top of each other in the wall of stacks and 1 was at the other end. If i remember right there was 15 or so amp heads total?
I'm just guessing here but it looked like 2 of the amps were for Yngwie and the far off one was for the bass player.
We did not get a look at the speaker cabs. But he sounded amazing! Ive been listening to him since 1984 and this was the 1st time seeing him live in concert. I'm glad I finally got to see him play live!
Cool! I think he has used G12T-75 and Greenbacks
How did you do it? Slaving one amp into another and so on? Thanks for the attention.
Hi! I used daisy chaining. Plugged in to your the high input of the first amp and then routed a cable from that amps low input on to the next amp
@@JohanSegeborn Interesting. Is it possible to do in 2 JCM 800? Considering it is another circuit.
Im wondering if there is phase cancelation if one of the stacks is not properly aligned with the others ?
best solution for home and studio: a 1974x combo on top of the 1974cx extension cab it's only 18 watts with 2x12 and it's a small wall
Wow, so bringing in the third amp really made a difference. Now you need to do this test with three Marshall Lead 12s! I know you can do it too!
Hahaha! 😂 Cheers
Johan! Maybe you can check out Little Ceasar's and Black Crowes gear in the future?
I’d love to. Killer bands
The first stack alone sounds most awesome to me!
Thanks!
What a fantastic video have a wonderful day also i have a stomach ache also a stomach flu ❤❤❤❤❤❤😢😢😢😢😢😢
Hope you get better soon!
The third stack in the corner has a most of issues with low freq because the near walls boost of some of them.
-Try a higher distance from back wall to clear the low end.
-try to keep equal distance from side walls to enhance the stereo image.
-try to put the cabs equal distance from mics center to get the mid-low corrected by timeing.
And after that put a MS mic pair at ear level or where it sounds good for you.
Enjoy
Thanks great feedback
More is more :)
Indeed!
I like the two stacks. It's just in the goldilocks zone. That middle amp is special; and I thought cabs two and three were the punchiest. I think you should have tried them unattenuated, but then Bjørn upstairs gets cranky, right?
Hahaha! No Bjørn is very tolerant
Preferred the single stack @7:07, nice clear aggression
Thanks Joel!
Crazy Johan of Sweden!
In good sense 🤘
Cheers! 🤘
More air moving usually results in bigger tone...BUT... beware of phase issues. Placement of the cabs in the room, relative to each other and the walls, plus mic placement becomes a big factor.
Edit: there clearly is a lot of comb filtering going on in the examples
That's what I heard. A lot of taming of the high end
Using all the cabs the sound seems fuller. Does the addition of all the speakers ressemble a PA speaker at the end ? I love the sound of the upper mid cab, the basketweave if I understand well, It reminds me my beloved old Laney with green goodmans. I don't know the difference between basketweave and checkerboard, only the grillcloth ?
Thanks! PA speakers often have response over 5-6 kHz which these don’t. The upper middle is indeed the basketweave cab with G12H30 55Hz speakers
@@JohanSegeborn Big thanks Johan !
Sounded a lot warmer with the Three stacks.
Did I miss it? Were you using the power station, power brake and other attenuators?
Yeah 6 dB knocked off on the 100 watters and 3 on the 50 watter. PS2, ironman 2, and power brake
First and second combined sound amazing on this. I wonder if the mix of the three could be tweaked a bit to pop a tiny more of the mid the middle stack added and then it would be stupid good.
The mutual coupling of all speakers makes it darker is a potential explanation
Awesome, just awesome...
the real question is, can it get the Kiss Alive tone?
Thanks! It can indeed, but that’s a question of blending many different signals I think
Supposedly Hendrix used the whole stacks in the studio. I believe Eddie Kramer said it was crazy being in the studio and seeing the glass shake as he played.
Hahaha! Wonderful
Sweet video
Thanks Brad!
Johan Segeborn cannot be stopped
Yup, _everyone_ needs three Marshall stacks to get the proper tone. Especially in your bedroom.
;-)
🤘
Welcome to Hell 😊
Sounded great, I’ve been playing my 1972 Marshall JMP 50 through a restored Marshall 1962 4X12 alnico 15w speakers with hot plate power soak and it sounds amazing to me 😍
Thanks! 🤘
Could the difference be that your loosing signal integrity by daisy chaining pre amps together ? Thus the 1st amp is getting hit harder with the input ??
Yeah a 3 way splitter would sound brighter
Call me crazy but I hear exactly the opposite to what you seem to hear. I found all 3 of them way too muffled (too much bass) and boomy with way less definition, while only one at a time sounded more pronounced to me. Clearer + punchy.
…Hm…
I liked the middle stack the best, especially the bottom cab (the bastard ; ) …I wonder which speaker did you mic on this particularly one?
That was an early 1967 G12H25 75Hz Greenback. I wrote G1230 in the video which was incorrect
@@JohanSegeborn So good!! 👌
It's kinda funny that the answer to the question "how to get the sound of a wall of Marshall stacks" isn't obviously "go get a wall of Marshall stacks"
I didn't notice much difference between any of them, but it seemed to me the more speakers you had the less dynamics you had.
I should measure that potential difference in headroom or dynamics
Perfect for bedroom playing. 😂
😂⚡️
I guess Johan plays this wall every night to the entire neighbourhood to have a good sleep 😂
two heads with slightly or completely different set eq, are the absolute minimum for a full marshall sound. 4 are required for wet left, dry1+dry2, wet right. one head or fxleft-dry-fxright are possible only with a really magic and balanced head.
That’s a good remark. I actually had all EQs set on 5 here. Some diversity there would probably enhance the overall sound
@@JohanSegeborn i set one magic(sweet not harsh) amp for the best possible tone alone and then i add a not so magic(harsher)one with a powerbrake to find the spot where it adds that extra which the first one lacks. different types of speakers always play the biggest role of course.
The first stack sounded much better than the second and I think one is enough for me 😁
Thanks man
You can tell it sounds better in the room with all of them......
Yeah but I think the difference is pretty much reflected buy these sound clips
Love it but dont think id fit it in the taxi cab to the gig
Hahaha! Cheers 😉
So now it’s finally 100% confirmed. The wall of marshall is much more intense.😮
😂 I agree that was kind of a platitude
the easiest way to know when and if you have the old tone(s) is if, the instant you take your hands off the axe, or even dont mute correct, the entire cab howls back at you and frightens everyone. An attenuator in the middle of amp and cab insures this doesnt happen unfortunately . but even a good small amp can howl a bit so i'd take a straight to cab small amp over a choked off real amp
If it gives you the tone you want go for it!
Intentional or not, but that pretty much NAILED the Jimmy Page bridge PUP sound. Absolutely awesome sound there...
Thanks, really good to hear that!
what about a wall of vox ac30?
3 full stacks, vs one half stack doubled & panned?
Sound huge that too, but it becomes kind of Big mono
wonderful. kinda sounds like my tech21hot plexi into uafx ruby. kinda.
If it's inspiring then that's already a plus. It doesn't seem to sound bigger in the mix and I actually prefer to hear the single amp on its own. Anyway, if it looks cool, it sounds better. That's the simple fact.
Can’t deny that 😂
To my ear, the top end fizz really became more noticeable when the 3rd stack was added
Weird I actually had the opposite reaction. It’s interesting how different playback devices potentially matters
@@JohanSegeborn Very interesting! Speaking of the room sound only, just to be clear. I'm listening through Audio-Technica ATH-M50x over-ear headphones. Not so much noticeable with the single line stuff, but moreso with the chords and double stop riffs. With the 1st stack only, the tone is brighter overall. With the 2nd stack added, the tone got significantly beefier in the mid-mids. With the 3rd added, the bottom-mids got beefier. I guess it's the relation between the frequency ranges that changes how you perceive them. The 3 stacks combined have the most balanced tone though, to my ear!