Just wonderr why people complain when techs make a decent wages, Im not a tech but working in the attic at 130 degrees is a nightmare. I guess only homeowners can make good money.
When I had my 35 year old Carrier replaced two years ago the tech who charged my new 16.5 seer Goodman 3T thought the old unit was probably an 11 seer originally but more like an 8 or 9 due to age. The new unit draws 35% less wattage and runs about 20% less time to do the same job.
@@onlywenilaugh6589 No doubt but I installed it myself, except the tech work which cost $650 (clean the lines, braze, install txv, vacuum test, add 134a). After 35 years the old unit worked decently until the end when the evap coil gave out.
@@onlywenilaugh6589 Not so sure what the goal is...tell us how retaining the old unit would be the best idea long term. Make up for? What is being lost?
I just replaced my 24 year old 12 seer 5 ton Lennox system with a 16 seer 2 stage Trane and holy crap it’s insane. Here in Tucson Arizona we only pay about .10-.12 per kWh so way cheaper and my house is fully solar powered but it was more about being proactive than reactive and switching my gas furnace to a heat pump now that I’m solar powered. I knew my old unit was likely on borrowed time. I’ll probably never see a return on the price I paid at this rate but it’s great peace of mind knowing I won’t come home to a house that’s 100 degrees and having to wait weeks for a replacement unit. Do it while you can and not when you have to!
Based on my conversations with various HVAC people... here is their feedback. I don't know if they were giving me a snow job or not... but it sort of made sense to me (similar advice I got about cars). 1) It's almost always cheaper to fix an existing system to buy a new system. Spending $300-$500 at a time is better than $8K for a new system. 2) Every system can be "fixed" (with replacement parts, or with "something"); however, other things may break. 3) Get the least complicated system possible. The more electronically fancy it is, the more chances it'll break, and the more expensive it is to fix. 4) Change the air filter often (cheapie filters ok; but dirty/clogged filter bad), and just like a dirty filter, don't get the high MERV rating, it'll make your system work harder (and it'll break sooner). Most HVACs are not built to be a home air filtration system. 5) Keep the outside system clean, and free of debris. 6) If you want to do anything yourself, turn off the power at the breaker.
I also believe that if the install is not done correctly, correct ducting methods, correct supply, correct returns, locations of them such as near a window vs an inside wall and correct connections. Otherwise, an 18 SEER may never get there due to some installers using the existing crap duct designs etc.
Here in California $.24 a kilowatt hour because we have a minimum cap allotment that PG&E allows us most family households exceeds that. In the sense per kilowatt hour start jumping up $.28 a kilowatt hour $.32 a kilowatt hour up to $.42 plus a kilowatt hour depending on your rate plan. Most of the multi family member medium to larger household we’re seen $.32 a kilowatt hour to $.38 a kilowatt hour. (yes I hear the word average but what they considered average are numbers that have been manipulated) Your videos are excellent educational information for the consumers to learn and make wise decisions in their purchasing power.
@@georgekolos5255 California is one of the most screwed up liberal communist fascist repressive depressive institutions on the face of this planet. A state ruled by the corporate overlords.
Crooked state and local politicians in the pockets of the utilities are the problem and I will include some presidents who believe in Swedish Greta, like Hanoi Jane!
Now also add in the interest that a homeowner will have to pay to finance a $10,000 + loan to pay for the new system. And even the "Brand New" systems will need maintenance add that on the grand total.
I suspect that my old plenum was leaking into the attic because my electric bills were pretty high before I replaced my HVAC equipment. The old plenum was made out of thin duct board and was slapped together. I installed a new plenum and sealed it well with mastic. I believe the old Lennox system was a 12 SEER and the new Goodman system was rated at 15 SEER. My summer electric bill dropped more than $100 per month.
Kentucky Utilities charges 4.8 cents a kilowatt. It’s no wonder there’s a mass exodus from California. The last 2 houses sold on our street were bought by people from California. One of them told that a lot more people would be leaving California but the traffic is so bad they can’t get out ! lol
Hello new to your channel, We live in Florida in a mobile home & a few years back we had to install a new A/C unit well a couple of months back we had it serviced witch we do regularly & the guy told us that the compressor is pulling 10 amps witch is a bit high he sed & then stated that what is causing this is sum of the ductwork is collapsing, so I sked him to show me where the ductwork is collapsing and he proceeded to shine his flashlight at a spot on the ductwork & swirl the light around while saying its that spot right there & then pointing to another spot to the left and doing the same thing with the light, witch I think was absolutely the stupidest thing I have ever seen as the ductwork is & always has been in the same since it was installed sum 30 odd years ago. We do have excellent airflow blowing out of the vents & the same for the return vent. So my question is could a spot on the feed side if there is a collapsing line somewhere cause the compressor to pull more amps as he sed ? Personally I don't think so, but that is why I'm asking as I am not an A/C Tech.
Savings can be complicated to estimate. The biggest single factor is the cost per kilowatt hour for the homeowner. For homeowners that enjoy low cost electricity, the savings on very high SEER unit will not be nearly as good as it will be for customers that have very expensive electricity. For example, my peak KW per hour cost is $.145, but this is the charge at the peak tier, and I only use a few hundred hours a month in the peak tier, so my average cost for electricity over the year is only abut $.10 per KWH. Next is the zone you live in. In very hot zones, such as seen in the southwestern states, even high SEER units will work at far below their best SEER rating, which is calculated at various heat loads and the SEER gets lower for the higher the temperature is. Even a system that has an 20 SEER will not deliver that on a hot day because the big trick in high SEER units is the ability to vary speed, but on a hot day, those systems will often be running at 80% to 100%, so they won't save nearly as much under those conditions as they would on a day of mild temps, but on a day of mild temps, you are not using that much electricity anyway. Tier pricing, as mentioned above, is a very big factor. If your AC bill during the summer means that a lot of your consumption is at the highest tier, then a more efficient unit can save some money but again, it may not be as great as one would think. My own calculations suggest that if you live in very hot climates, a two stage AC may be a better deal than a variable speed unit because of the cost differential. Last is humidity. If humidity is a factor, then the variable speed units might be well worth the extra money because they run longer and slower when off peak, and this gives much better humidity control. I live in Texas, and it gets mighty hot here these days, and having spent hours and hours going through electric bills to calculate how much I actually spend on electricity for cooling, in my own case, it was impossible to justify the cost of anything more than a two speed unit. The premiums from both the manufacturer and the dealer mean that these advance systems can cost many thousands of dollars more than two speed systems, but two speed systems are really only slightly more expensive than single speed, and when I calculated my own return on investment, only the two speed gave any advantage in the total cost of the system (purchase price and projected electricity usage) over the single speed system. My electricity would have to be in the $.18 range per KWH to make a five speed system work budget wise. The point here is that no one should by a $16000 AC over a $10,000 AC without taking an hour or two to actually look at current KW used at the different tier rates. If you are single tier, it is much easier to calculate.
My apartment complex has provided my townhome with a 37 year old barrel unit with a SEER of 8! LOL. I can't even use your calculator as this is below the minimum. Heh.
It would be nice to apply an example equipment cost to the mix. When I have played with the numbers, none of the multi stage systems pay for themselves vs a single stage. Would like to be shown that I was wrong.
As a tech in the trade you aren’t probably missing anything with the current price points in the trade. Once you determine that the equipment is going to be modern it’s more about the comfort and longevity of a system than the payback time. And as realistic time in your house vs time in your car or whatever it is a big upgrade with realistically a small price tag difference when thought about over the 10-20 years you will get to enjoy it
There is an argument to be made about the simple single stage equipment. The only benefit I would argue with two stage would be that of dehumidification. if you live in an area where humidity removal is important it is definitely of benefit especially on larger units.It is harder to quantify that though. It is a different story with heat pumps as they operate summer and Winter so you will get the benefits of those year around.
What's really needed is further restrictions, taxes and import blockades on refrigerants and gasses to manufacture such to bring the price of 410a to $500 lb. That'll fix everything and they're doing a good job of it now.
The only safe refrigerant should be CO2 or H2O 😢 We'll still probably have to "recover" both of them! Good grief! Only about $1600 the cheapest with tax for a 30# drum of R22 here in Chicagoland if you can find! I forget 410a is supposed to be also getting phased out! Let's go European! Let's only use safer for the planet only flammable refrigerants for our ACs! Show you all what happens if one decides to "unsweat" anything before evacuating and purging with something non flammable like nitrogen. What was that explosion in a home fire? Propane tank inside going off? No no. Just AC system exploding Much safer for us/ planet :(
I do refrigeration also. I love not knowing many times what refrigerant of dozens is in a system! I miss the old days when most HVACR guys needed to carry only 3 different ones on thier truck! ...And no nitrogen tanks that folk like me have to purge such for brazing and pressure testing. Any old guys here? Myself only about 25 yrs making a living in this industry. Add 8 more of being my father's helper untill I started to get paid for what I do now Love it! I still learn something new about it everyday. How did you used to if you ever did, pressure test a system for leaks?? Hopefully not with oxygen! Just kidding but seriously?
@@georgekolos5255 ... started doing AC on cars around 1972 or so. Vac the system for 30 minutes while you clean up. Let it sit in a vac while you have lunch. If it holds then fill 'er up. Looking for leaks was a matter of soapy water or looking for an oil stain. In the old days the only leaks came from physical damage, or possibly a compressor seal with old age. OTOH, R-12 was cheap and people often topped up a leaker to buy another season or two. (cheap = $15 for 30 lbs.) Doing homes latter on was strictly R-22. If you were in a larger company, you used nitrogen to purge / leak test. If you were a solo guy, then you probably charged then soap tested your joints. Failing (new) components were almost unheard of in those days.
Down here in Ms we are paying either 13 or 14 cents per kwh so your math does not add up for us as far as cost to run vs savings. I have 2 units that are somewhat new i think installed in 2019. One is a 14 seer and the other is 16 seer. I am exploring the Bosch 2.0 inverter 20 seer systems to replace these 2 units. Someone told me his power cut bill was cut in 1/2 since switching to Bosch 2.0.
Putting one in my home in the Seattle area. Went with the 13 seer because it will not be running more than a few weeks a year, and our electricity is pretty cheap. It would take forever to make back the money, even just upgrading to a 14 seer instead.
Reputable brands should carry ten year parts warranties. If you are outside of the installing contractor's labor warranty, you will pay for the service call, but not at a higher rate.
In Southern CA, power sells for .38 cents per kWh in tier two and .46 cents in tier three, when on their domestic tiered rate plan. It's likely the cheapest plan to be on out of all the ones they have "reverse engineered" to put the shaft to the public during certain hours of the day such as 4 PM to 9 PM, maximum charge. You know, people don't use A/C any more than they need to yet, the state of CA wants them to believe paying 5 times the nations average for power is reasonable. CA also wants the public to believe there is "so much power available" when in fact that is untrue. How do they get away with these lies? In NV, they sell power for .06 cents and .08 cents per kWh. Now how is that ?
@@Garth2011 .... yeah, that's what I was getting at. BTW, you can edit your post by clicking on the 3 dots to the right of your post. (they don't show up till you put your cursor by the post)
In Texas. You pay that much for power? Holy shit! I’m paying $0.088 per kWh based on 2000 kWh. Granted, the most recent prices have started to rise; not quite doubling. I luckily have another year left on my current contract. (we can pick our power provider in Texas)
It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out here in Texas. I pay more than .088 in West Texas especially when you add in all of the extra fees.
Sure, you’re going to save money over the long-term, but right now with the consideration of inflation, the long-term value might be either more or less. Also, take into consideration the price difference to buy a more efficient unit.
Your ductwork better be perfectly designed and installed. Otherwise, you will see rapidly diminishing returns in efficiency as you increase the SEER rating of your equipment.
End of this year they're expected to mandate a minimum 15 SEER. The DOE should not be in a position to mandate anything this should be a choice of the consumer and their own personal pocketbook.
@@billderby1527 I would agree. But, if they are going to force people to buy something, it should be a higher SEER, not a seer or two more. The second they push for say a 16 SEER, the volume of sales would lower the price of a 16.
@@Garth2011 how would this lower the cost of a 16 seer? I'm looking to replace my old 25 yr trane which was 14 seer. Thinking of going to a 16 seer Trane. So should I wait til the min is 16 seer and I will get a lower cost??? Our hvac guy here in South Carolina quoted us these prices 14 seer trane- $12, 200 16 seer trane- $14,050 Dif= $1850
A dishonest salesperson will use the old system SEER rating when attempting to persuade a customer to buy the higher SEER equipment. The real calculation is from the DOE minimum which is 14 now but will be 15 end of year and the higher SEER equipment. The reason for this is that the customer will already be saving a portion going to the minimum SEER. Example, showing a customer that has a 10 SEER the savings from a 10 to a 18 SEER verses a 14 to a 18 SEER is misleading. As they'll already benefit the cost of the 10 to the 14 SEER. A greater service is educating the customers that have gas furnaces to move to a heat pump. There is currently by the environmentalist an attack on natural gas which use to be the cheapest form to heat your home. The term use is electrification. Currently there is a Senate Bill attempting to give incentives to make this move. In Cali is will soon be illegal to use gas in new homes. Additionally, one just needs to see the actual unreported war on the infrastructure of natural gas. Just this month 4 explosions at plants or gas lines.
Yeah I live out here in Cali and it has definitely gone that way. $3000 rebates for switching to electric. Crazy. New code requires builders to use electric if a gas line doesn't already exist there. It's getting there...
Interesting. However is it really cost effective when considering the added cost of the equipment upgrade? In the OC we used to have a tiered energy cost. So having a lower usage will potentially save you a lot more money than your calculator. Now it has changed to time of day. The calculator is a good way to compare the upgraded quotes against potential energy cost savings.
BTW, when folks are adding central A/C or replacing them, are you recommending powered attic fans be installed if there are none? If so, which make and model for a typical 1,800 SF single story home and a hip roof that tend to last a good time period ?
You're better off installing some screened air intake openings under the soffit of the home and then put some louvers which won't allow rain entering the attic. Natural convection will do the work and you won't have to worry replacing motors every three years.
I remember a large builder in the Houston area decided to eliminate soffits and those homes were very hard to cool down and required larger A/C systems costing lots of extra dollars!
@@bobboscarato1313 There's a lot of things that would be better for the builder...I think that's why most folks who buy a tract home get shafted as a new home "built to code" vs built to reality and modern standards most folks want. They're going back to those ductless air vents over cooktop/stoves in the kitchen. What a shame and the codes should force them to use ducted powered vents. There's tons of features not part of them and pretty soon, they will all be considered PUD style homes, 2 feet from your neighbor with a garage door 16 feet from the gutter and a tiny backyard. I recall one tract of homes that were built and none of the "two car" garages would fit an SUV.
Is anyone here familiar with the 16 seer "Arcoaire" system? Our hvac guy quoted us pricing on the Arcoaire & Trane system. There would be a savings of $2250 if i go with arcoaire, however I have never heard of this system. Pls advise if you know... thank you in advance
Arco air (and Comfortmaker and Heil) is part of ICP. ICP was bought by Carrier some 15 years ago. It is all essentially Carrier now. The only difference is that they do not get the elite equipment that Carrier gets. The warranties are almost identical between the Arco air and train. Honestly I would pocket the difference and go with Arco air. Trane is a little too proud of their product for my liking and honestly I think the newer stuff from them it's not as good as they used to be. The company I work with sells both Comfortmaker and Trane. I have the former in my house as well as my parents house and all of my own customers houses. I do not know your location but if you are in the Midwest with a lot of humidity make sure that the unit is sized correctly. A lot of people like to oversize equipment.
you will not save any money it will cost you a lot more for new system and it will break down more often so you will be loosing money cause todays systems are not made to last like the old ones they are cheaply made
Just wonderr why people complain when techs make a decent wages, Im not a tech but working in the attic at 130 degrees is a nightmare. I guess only homeowners can make good money.
When I had my 35 year old Carrier replaced two years ago the tech who charged my new 16.5 seer Goodman 3T thought the old unit was probably an 11 seer originally but more like an 8 or 9 due to age. The new unit draws 35% less wattage and runs about 20% less time to do the same job.
Right but now you have all that outlay for the new unit and the installation cost to make up for.
@@onlywenilaugh6589 No doubt but I installed it myself, except the tech work which cost $650 (clean the lines, braze, install txv, vacuum test, add 134a). After 35 years the old unit worked decently until the end when the evap coil gave out.
Bingo! That is how higher seer works. Same work in less time (less power usage during operation too). Glad to see it is working well for you!
@@onlywenilaugh6589 Not so sure what the goal is...tell us how retaining the old unit would be the best idea long term. Make up for? What is being lost?
@@Garth2011 easy, use it until you can't, pretty simple.
I just replaced my 24 year old 12 seer 5 ton Lennox system with a 16 seer 2 stage Trane and holy crap it’s insane. Here in Tucson Arizona we only pay about .10-.12 per kWh so way cheaper and my house is fully solar powered but it was more about being proactive than reactive and switching my gas furnace to a heat pump now that I’m solar powered. I knew my old unit was likely on borrowed time. I’ll probably never see a return on the price I paid at this rate but it’s great peace of mind knowing I won’t come home to a house that’s 100 degrees and having to wait weeks for a replacement unit. Do it while you can and not when you have to!
✅
Based on my conversations with various HVAC people... here is their feedback. I don't know if they were giving me a snow job or not... but it sort of made sense to me (similar advice I got about cars).
1) It's almost always cheaper to fix an existing system to buy a new system. Spending $300-$500 at a time is better than $8K for a new system.
2) Every system can be "fixed" (with replacement parts, or with "something"); however, other things may break.
3) Get the least complicated system possible. The more electronically fancy it is, the more chances it'll break, and the more expensive it is to fix.
4) Change the air filter often (cheapie filters ok; but dirty/clogged filter bad), and just like a dirty filter, don't get the high MERV rating, it'll make your system work harder (and it'll break sooner). Most HVACs are not built to be a home air filtration system.
5) Keep the outside system clean, and free of debris.
6) If you want to do anything yourself, turn off the power at the breaker.
I also believe that if the install is not done correctly, correct ducting methods, correct supply, correct returns, locations of them such as near a window vs an inside wall and correct connections. Otherwise, an 18 SEER may never get there due to some installers using the existing crap duct designs etc.
Here in California $.24 a kilowatt hour because we have a minimum cap allotment that PG&E allows us most family households exceeds that. In the sense per kilowatt hour start jumping up $.28 a kilowatt hour $.32 a kilowatt hour up to $.42 plus a kilowatt hour depending on your rate plan.
Most of the multi family member medium to larger household we’re seen $.32 a kilowatt hour to $.38 a kilowatt hour. (yes I hear the word average but what they considered average are numbers that have been manipulated)
Your videos are excellent educational information for the consumers to learn and make wise decisions in their purchasing power.
Chicagoland is 5.5 cents/ KW hr for the average!
What's up/ wrong with CA besides many other obvious things!!??
@@georgekolos5255 California is one of the most screwed up liberal communist fascist repressive depressive institutions on the face of this planet. A state ruled by the corporate overlords.
Crooked state and local politicians in the pockets of the utilities are the problem and I will include some presidents who believe in Swedish Greta, like Hanoi Jane!
I installed a Senville 26 SEER on my house. It's super efficient!
Now also add in the interest that a homeowner will have to pay to finance a $10,000 + loan to pay for the new system. And even the "Brand New" systems will need maintenance add that on the grand total.
Pay with cash...save up ahead of time as its not going away.
I just got 0% financing for 60 months on a new Trane unit. 🤷🏻♂️
I suspect that my old plenum was leaking into the attic because my electric bills were pretty high before I replaced my HVAC equipment. The old plenum was made out of thin duct board and was slapped together. I installed a new plenum and sealed it well with mastic. I believe the old Lennox system was a 12 SEER and the new Goodman system was rated at 15 SEER. My summer electric bill dropped more than $100 per month.
Kentucky Utilities charges 4.8 cents a kilowatt. It’s no wonder there’s a mass exodus from California. The last 2 houses sold on our street were bought by people from California. One of them told that a lot more people would be leaving California but the traffic is so bad they can’t get out ! lol
😂
Hello new to your channel, We live in Florida in a mobile home & a few years back we had to install a new A/C unit well a couple of months back we had it serviced witch we do regularly & the guy told us that the compressor is pulling 10 amps witch is a bit high he sed & then stated that what is causing this is sum of the ductwork is collapsing, so I sked him to show me where the ductwork is collapsing and he proceeded to shine his flashlight at a spot on the ductwork & swirl the light around while saying its that spot right there & then pointing to another spot to the left and doing the same thing with the light, witch I think was absolutely the stupidest thing I have ever seen as the ductwork is & always has been in the same since it was installed sum 30 odd years ago. We do have excellent airflow blowing out of the vents & the same for the return vent. So my question is could a spot on the feed side if there is a collapsing line somewhere cause the compressor to pull more amps as he sed ? Personally I don't think so, but that is why I'm asking as I am not an A/C Tech.
Savings can be complicated to estimate. The biggest single factor is the cost per kilowatt hour for the homeowner. For homeowners that enjoy low cost electricity, the savings on very high SEER unit will not be nearly as good as it will be for customers that have very expensive electricity. For example, my peak KW per hour cost is $.145, but this is the charge at the peak tier, and I only use a few hundred hours a month in the peak tier, so my average cost for electricity over the year is only abut $.10 per KWH. Next is the zone you live in. In very hot zones, such as seen in the southwestern states, even high SEER units will work at far below their best SEER rating, which is calculated at various heat loads and the SEER gets lower for the higher the temperature is. Even a system that has an 20 SEER will not deliver that on a hot day because the big trick in high SEER units is the ability to vary speed, but on a hot day, those systems will often be running at 80% to 100%, so they won't save nearly as much under those conditions as they would on a day of mild temps, but on a day of mild temps, you are not using that much electricity anyway. Tier pricing, as mentioned above, is a very big factor. If your AC bill during the summer means that a lot of your consumption is at the highest tier, then a more efficient unit can save some money but again, it may not be as great as one would think. My own calculations suggest that if you live in very hot climates, a two stage AC may be a better deal than a variable speed unit because of the cost differential. Last is humidity. If humidity is a factor, then the variable speed units might be well worth the extra money because they run longer and slower when off peak, and this gives much better humidity control. I live in Texas, and it gets mighty hot here these days, and having spent hours and hours going through electric bills to calculate how much I actually spend on electricity for cooling, in my own case, it was impossible to justify the cost of anything more than a two speed unit. The premiums from both the manufacturer and the dealer mean that these advance systems can cost many thousands of dollars more than two speed systems, but two speed systems are really only slightly more expensive than single speed, and when I calculated my own return on investment, only the two speed gave any advantage in the total cost of the system (purchase price and projected electricity usage) over the single speed system. My electricity would have to be in the $.18 range per KWH to make a five speed system work budget wise. The point here is that no one should by a $16000 AC over a $10,000 AC without taking an hour or two to actually look at current KW used at the different tier rates. If you are single tier, it is much easier to calculate.
My apartment complex has provided my townhome with a 37 year old barrel unit with a SEER of 8! LOL. I can't even use your calculator as this is below the minimum. Heh.
It would be nice to apply an example equipment cost to the mix. When I have played with the numbers, none of the multi stage systems pay for themselves vs a single stage. Would like to be shown that I was wrong.
As a tech in the trade you aren’t probably missing anything with the current price points in the trade. Once you determine that the equipment is going to be modern it’s more about the comfort and longevity of a system than the payback time. And as realistic time in your house vs time in your car or whatever it is a big upgrade with realistically a small price tag difference when thought about over the 10-20 years you will get to enjoy it
Keep Brandon in power and with new higher prices for electricity more advanced heat pumps pay for themselves in no time
Quality of life.
Multistage pays out in increased comfort and lower decibel level as well. Those the are priceless parts of the equation.
There is an argument to be made about the simple single stage equipment. The only benefit I would argue with two stage would be that of dehumidification. if you live in an area where humidity removal is important it is definitely of benefit especially on larger units.It is harder to quantify that though. It is a different story with heat pumps as they operate summer and Winter so you will get the benefits of those year around.
Experienced to know if suction line doesn't feel beer can cold doesn't work in our industry anymore
How much per KW in CA!!?
Wow! No wonder there are some gas stations there approaching $10/ gallon.
I thought Chicagoland IL was insane crazy!
Right!?
What's really needed is further restrictions, taxes and import blockades on refrigerants and gasses to manufacture such to bring the price of 410a to $500 lb. That'll fix everything and they're doing a good job of it now.
$500/#! :(
CA will soon be only for the richest of the rich scared about everything
What do HVAC techs make hourly there? $200/ hr??
The only safe refrigerant should be CO2 or H2O 😢
We'll still probably have to "recover" both of them!
Good grief! Only about $1600 the cheapest with tax for a 30# drum of R22 here in Chicagoland if you can find! I forget 410a is supposed to be also getting phased out! Let's go European! Let's only use safer for the planet only flammable refrigerants for our ACs!
Show you all what happens if one decides to "unsweat" anything before evacuating and purging with something non flammable like nitrogen.
What was that explosion in a home fire?
Propane tank inside going off?
No no. Just AC system exploding
Much safer for us/ planet :(
I do refrigeration also.
I love not knowing many times what refrigerant of dozens is in a system!
I miss the old days when most HVACR guys needed to carry only 3 different ones on thier truck! ...And no nitrogen tanks that folk like me have to purge such for brazing and pressure testing.
Any old guys here?
Myself only about 25 yrs making a living in this industry. Add 8 more of being my father's helper untill I started to get paid for what I do now
Love it! I still learn something new about it everyday.
How did you used to if you ever did, pressure test a system for leaks??
Hopefully not with oxygen!
Just kidding but seriously?
@@georgekolos5255 ... started doing AC on cars around 1972 or so. Vac the system for 30 minutes while you clean up. Let it sit in a vac while you have lunch. If it holds then fill 'er up. Looking for leaks was a matter of soapy water or looking for an oil stain. In the old days the only leaks came from physical damage, or possibly a compressor seal with old age. OTOH, R-12 was cheap and people often topped up a leaker to buy another season or two. (cheap = $15 for 30 lbs.) Doing homes latter on was strictly R-22. If you were in a larger company, you used nitrogen to purge / leak test. If you were a solo guy, then you probably charged then soap tested your joints. Failing (new) components were almost unheard of in those days.
Down here in Ms we are paying either 13 or 14 cents per kwh so your math does not add up for us as far as cost to run vs savings. I have 2 units that are somewhat new i think installed in 2019. One is a 14 seer and the other is 16 seer. I am exploring the Bosch 2.0 inverter 20 seer systems to replace these 2 units. Someone told me his power cut bill was cut in 1/2 since switching to Bosch 2.0.
Still the outlay for new system and installation will cost way more than the savings over 20 years. Much like replacement windows and EV cars.
DIY
@@LemonySnicket-EUC and lose all or half warranty and most can't do it.
Putting one in my home in the Seattle area. Went with the 13 seer because it will not be running more than a few weeks a year, and our electricity is pretty cheap. It would take forever to make back the money, even just upgrading to a 14 seer instead.
How much are we "saving" when we pay thousands extra for more efficient equipment and then the higher repair costs for inverters and circuit boards?
Reputable brands should carry ten year parts warranties. If you are outside of the installing contractor's labor warranty, you will pay for the service call, but not at a higher rate.
In Southern CA, power sells for .38 cents per kWh in tier two and .46 cents in tier three, when on their domestic tiered rate plan. It's likely the cheapest plan to be on out of all the ones they have "reverse engineered" to put the shaft to the public during certain hours of the day such as 4 PM to 9 PM, maximum charge. You know, people don't use A/C any more than they need to yet, the state of CA wants them to believe paying 5 times the nations average for power is reasonable. CA also wants the public to believe there is "so much power available" when in fact that is untrue. How do they get away with these lies? In NV, they sell power for .06 cents and .08 cents per kWh. Now how is that ?
good comparison, but I believe you mean 38 cents (0.38 of a dollar) not .38 cents, which way less than a penny per Kw.
@@rupe53 .38 dollars satisfy?
@@Garth2011 .... yeah, that's what I was getting at. BTW, you can edit your post by clicking on the 3 dots to the right of your post. (they don't show up till you put your cursor by the post)
In Texas. You pay that much for power? Holy shit! I’m paying $0.088 per kWh based on 2000 kWh. Granted, the most recent prices have started to rise; not quite doubling. I luckily have another year left on my current contract. (we can pick our power provider in Texas)
Damn! 8 cents
It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out here in Texas. I pay more than .088 in West Texas especially when you add in all of the extra fees.
@@LemonySnicket-EUC Are you on the Texas Grid or the Western Interconnection?
Sure, you’re going to save money over the long-term, but right now with the consideration of inflation, the long-term value might be either more or less. Also, take into consideration the price difference to buy a more efficient unit.
So a new system won't even pay for itself at double the SEER for 20 years!?
Your ductwork better be perfectly designed and installed. Otherwise, you will see rapidly diminishing returns in efficiency as you increase the SEER rating of your equipment.
Looks like the 16 and 20 provide the best savings...ignoring the cost to get there. The EPA should require 16 SEER as minimum rather than the 14.
End of this year they're expected to mandate a minimum 15 SEER. The DOE should not be in a position to mandate anything this should be a choice of the consumer and their own personal pocketbook.
@@billderby1527 I would agree. But, if they are going to force people to buy something, it should be a higher SEER, not a seer or two more. The second they push for say a 16 SEER, the volume of sales would lower the price of a 16.
@@Garth2011 Dreamer keep on dreaming sweet dreams!
@@bobboscarato1313 Just like CA DMV, as vehicles get older and less in value, the license plate tags increase year by year !
@@Garth2011 how would this lower the cost of a 16 seer? I'm looking to replace my old 25 yr trane which was 14 seer. Thinking of going to a 16 seer Trane. So should I wait til the min is 16 seer and I will get a lower cost??? Our hvac guy here in South Carolina quoted us these prices
14 seer trane- $12, 200
16 seer trane- $14,050
Dif= $1850
A dishonest salesperson will use the old system SEER rating when attempting to persuade a customer to buy the higher SEER equipment. The real calculation is from the DOE minimum which is 14 now but will be 15 end of year and the higher SEER equipment. The reason for this is that the customer will already be saving a portion going to the minimum SEER. Example, showing a customer that has a 10 SEER the savings from a 10 to a 18 SEER verses a 14 to a 18 SEER is misleading. As they'll already benefit the cost of the 10 to the 14 SEER.
A greater service is educating the customers that have gas furnaces to move to a heat pump. There is currently by the environmentalist an attack on natural gas which use to be the cheapest form to heat your home. The term use is electrification. Currently there is a Senate Bill attempting to give incentives to make this move. In Cali is will soon be illegal to use gas in new homes.
Additionally, one just needs to see the actual unreported war on the infrastructure of natural gas. Just this month 4 explosions at plants or gas lines.
Yeah I live out here in Cali and it has definitely gone that way. $3000 rebates for switching to electric. Crazy.
New code requires builders to use electric if a gas line doesn't already exist there. It's getting there...
Interesting. However is it really cost effective when considering the added cost of the equipment upgrade? In the OC we used to have a tiered energy cost. So having a lower usage will potentially save you a lot more money than your calculator. Now it has changed to time of day. The calculator is a good way to compare the upgraded quotes against potential energy cost savings.
Or take the savings and invest it at an average return of 10%. That will make you a lot more than any 20 year savings
Where are the natural gas condensing units??
The electric utilities outsmarted the gas companies!
Great!
BTW, when folks are adding central A/C or replacing them, are you recommending powered attic fans be installed if there are none? If so, which make and model for a typical 1,800 SF single story home and a hip roof that tend to last a good time period ?
You're better off installing some screened air intake openings under the soffit of the home and then put some louvers which won't allow rain entering the attic. Natural convection will do the work and you won't have to worry replacing motors every three years.
I remember a large builder in the Houston area decided to eliminate soffits and those homes were very hard to cool down and required larger A/C systems costing lots of extra dollars!
@@bobboscarato1313 There's a lot of things that would be better for the builder...I think that's why most folks who buy a tract home get shafted as a new home "built to code" vs built to reality and modern standards most folks want. They're going back to those ductless air vents over cooktop/stoves in the kitchen. What a shame and the codes should force them to use ducted powered vents. There's tons of features not part of them and pretty soon, they will all be considered PUD style homes, 2 feet from your neighbor with a garage door 16 feet from the gutter and a tiny backyard. I recall one tract of homes that were built and none of the "two car" garages would fit an SUV.
@@bobboscarato1313 Not a good idea for fire threats. Some areas won't allow those I believe.
Great conversation!
Is anyone here familiar with the 16 seer "Arcoaire" system? Our hvac guy quoted us pricing on the Arcoaire & Trane system. There would be a savings of $2250 if i go with arcoaire, however I have never heard of this system. Pls advise if you know... thank you in advance
I think Arcoaire is related to Carrier. It looks like good equipment. Trane pricing is too high for me to consider it.
Arco air (and Comfortmaker and Heil) is part of ICP. ICP was bought by Carrier some 15 years ago. It is all essentially Carrier now. The only difference is that they do not get the elite equipment that Carrier gets. The warranties are almost identical between the Arco air and train. Honestly I would pocket the difference and go with Arco air. Trane is a little too proud of their product for my liking and honestly I think the newer stuff from them it's not as good as they used to be. The company I work with sells both Comfortmaker and Trane. I have the former in my house as well as my parents house and all of my own customers houses. I do not know your location but if you are in the Midwest with a lot of humidity make sure that the unit is sized correctly. A lot of people like to oversize equipment.
Fox family 🤘❤️🤘
you will not save any money it will cost you a lot more for new system and it will break down more often so you will be loosing money cause todays systems are not made to last like the old ones they are cheaply made