Yeah they ended up with something similar to us, I doubt we were an inspiration but rather just coincidence. Their set was also their actual kitchen though whereas we can whip up lunch and film at the same time. Spoilt 😂 - Taz.
Caster offset is anotherr critical one people miss, when your driven wheels are steered to this can cause problems also! Look at wrc McPherson setups for a good example!
I put a 50mm lift, hd spring and shocks in my 2017 Pajero. Couldn't work out why it now Uturns like a fucking boss! This explains it. My missus oversteered it all the time on uturns, scrubbed the shoulder off the left front (australian roads) must be into positive scrub radius, and definitely feels a bit darty on steering!
Engineering idea. Still use race spec camber but retrofit some sort of electronic/hydraulic camber adjusting as the vehicle is cornering, with sensors it could read the trajectory an all plane angles of the car itself on track in marriage with the track planes an it could make minor adjustments on the fly as its cornering to give an edge on better handling. Program the ECU almost like an auto pilot. Wheelie control for cars
Thanks for the video! I have an e46 m3 I am setting up for grip. I’m wondering if I should shoot for positive or negative scrub radius. The standard front wheel is a 8j et 47. I now have a 9j et 17. The outside of the 9j et 17 sits 43mm further out than the standard 8j while the inside of the wheel sits 17mm further out than the standard 8j. I’m assuming I have massive positive scrub radius. I have room on the inset side to widen the wheel to a 10j if my scrub radius is too excessive now. I’m just trying to figure out for the most overall mid corner grip on a bumpy road if I want negative or positive scrub radius and if so how much? Thank you!
After fitting an ATB to my mini I was surprised at how sensitive to scrub radius / wheel offset the torque steer was. This is the first time I've heard a target for scrub radius, is this target effected by wheel / tyre radius or potentially width?
Every car and application is different when it comes to sensitivity. A larger overall diameter and wider tire can definitely amplify any issues. A wider track width moves our contact patch further from our centerline, which moves the scrub radius more positive - usually increasing it. That can increase the effect of torque steer. Note that powerful cars will exhibit this tendency rather than it necessarily being something you’ve gotten completely wrong with setup to induce it alone, if that makes sense, but of course we can make appropriate changes to reduce the tendency from there - Taz.
Can altering the scrub radius through wheel offset alter the point at which the tire carries the vehicles weight? So if I were to put a 10.5 +12 offset wheel on a car that came standard with a 9" +45 wheel, more load would sat on the inner tread? Assuming camber and caster is adjusted to suit?
I understand the concept, but is it realistic for someone to think they are changing their offset from 31mm to 25mm (I'm using my car as an example here of what I did) and knowing if that is a good or bad thing. Or realistically unless you are doing a 40mm change (as mentioned in the video and doing something like a widebody kit) that it just doesn't matter much anyway.
It's not necessarily always going to be a good or bad thing. We just need to be aware of the effects our changes could have. A relatively small change like you have mentioned is unlikely to make much practical difference depending on what you're using the car for when it comes to track vs street - Connor
@@bradcollins4114 keep in mind, video saidno more than 40mm total, not 40mm change. Does your car have 0 scrub radius stock? It probably has some degree of it stock. So the max amount you can change and stay within 40 probably isn't 40.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Critical Knowledge
0:30 - What Is Caster
1:07 - Positive Caster
1:34 - Kingpin Inclination/Kingpin Angle
2:17 - Scrub Radius/Kingpin Offset
3:12 - Wheel Offset Relationship
3:25 - Steering Travel Arc
4:03 - Too Much Caster Or Scrub Radius?
4:28 - Suspension Tuning & Optimisation
4:38 - Sensitive Steering
5:15 - 40mm Scrub Radius Goals
5:24 - Clearance Considerations
5:43 - Lesson Summary
6:26 - Wheel Fitment Course
I really enjoy suspension and geometry stuff. But i also really like my low offset vskfs with good fitment 😂
haha a foot in both worlds eh! Ultimately how a car is used plays a big role in all this too. Happy driving 🤘 - Taz.
doesnt matter if you dont drive it hard :)
Love this always learning
the background took me back to the good old days of Science Garage of Donut Media
Yeah they ended up with something similar to us, I doubt we were an inspiration but rather just coincidence. Their set was also their actual kitchen though whereas we can whip up lunch and film at the same time. Spoilt 😂 - Taz.
one comment to boost engagement and two more words as an upgrade
You're a legend 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 nope, I am a booster of engagement Sunglassemoji
Caster offset is anotherr critical one people miss, when your driven wheels are steered to this can cause problems also! Look at wrc McPherson setups for a good example!
I put a 50mm lift, hd spring and shocks in my 2017 Pajero. Couldn't work out why it now Uturns like a fucking boss! This explains it. My missus oversteered it all the time on uturns, scrubbed the shoulder off the left front (australian roads) must be into positive scrub radius, and definitely feels a bit darty on steering!
When you get that figured out you can tune each and ever vehicle to the speed you want, slower or faster like turning a dial.
This was great, thanks
Glad you enjoyed it 😎
You guys make great videos
Engineering idea. Still use race spec camber but retrofit some sort of electronic/hydraulic camber adjusting as the vehicle is cornering, with sensors it could read the trajectory an all plane angles of the car itself on track in marriage with the track planes an it could make minor adjustments on the fly as its cornering to give an edge on better handling. Program the ECU almost like an auto pilot. Wheelie control for cars
Lamborghini is developing this
Yes
Straight facts
Thanks for the video! I have an e46 m3 I am setting up for grip. I’m wondering if I should shoot for positive or negative scrub radius. The standard front wheel is a 8j et 47. I now have a 9j et 17. The outside of the 9j et 17 sits 43mm further out than the standard 8j while the inside of the wheel sits 17mm further out than the standard 8j. I’m assuming I have massive positive scrub radius. I have room on the inset side to widen the wheel to a 10j if my scrub radius is too excessive now. I’m just trying to figure out for the most overall mid corner grip on a bumpy road if I want negative or positive scrub radius and if so how much? Thank you!
After fitting an ATB to my mini I was surprised at how sensitive to scrub radius / wheel offset the torque steer was. This is the first time I've heard a target for scrub radius, is this target effected by wheel / tyre radius or potentially width?
Every car and application is different when it comes to sensitivity. A larger overall diameter and wider tire can definitely amplify any issues. A wider track width moves our contact patch further from our centerline, which moves the scrub radius more positive - usually increasing it. That can increase the effect of torque steer.
Note that powerful cars will exhibit this tendency rather than it necessarily being something you’ve gotten completely wrong with setup to induce it alone, if that makes sense, but of course we can make appropriate changes to reduce the tendency from there - Taz.
Can altering the scrub radius through wheel offset alter the point at which the tire carries the vehicles weight? So if I were to put a 10.5 +12 offset wheel on a car that came standard with a 9" +45 wheel, more load would sat on the inner tread? Assuming camber and caster is adjusted to suit?
If the camber and castor are the same then no - not really. The load will be centred through the centre of the contact patch - Connor
I understand the concept, but is it realistic for someone to think they are changing their offset from 31mm to 25mm (I'm using my car as an example here of what I did) and knowing if that is a good or bad thing. Or realistically unless you are doing a 40mm change (as mentioned in the video and doing something like a widebody kit) that it just doesn't matter much anyway.
It's not necessarily always going to be a good or bad thing. We just need to be aware of the effects our changes could have. A relatively small change like you have mentioned is unlikely to make much practical difference depending on what you're using the car for when it comes to track vs street - Connor
@@bradcollins4114 keep in mind, video saidno more than 40mm total, not 40mm change.
Does your car have 0 scrub radius stock? It probably has some degree of it stock. So the max amount you can change and stay within 40 probably isn't 40.
1" wheel spacers caused my power steering pump to wear quickly, makes humming noise now.
Imagine that, stupid changes don't work.
the offset community is going to feel a disruption in The Force over this one. haha.
👀