Hey guys, I’ve been doing a lot more deep diving into the JM3 sound and gear, and I’ve also spent a lot more time using the BD-2. JM3 2005 era tone was 100% the BD-2 lol. But post that, it was the TS10. I think I focused a bit too much on the post JM3 sound in my efforts and let that influence my position for the original 2005 era as well. New video on the whole gear and tones of the JM3 2005 era to follow soon!
During the trio era and on the official video of WDYTIW JM used the Keeley BD-2 for the rhythm tone; you can actually hear that there is more definition to the notes, as well as more bass compared to a TS based overdriven rhythm sound. There are also a couple of videos of some TV shows performances where you can see JM stepping on the BD-2 before starting playing the song live. It is 100% the Keeley BD-2. Having said that, it is true that in live performances after the Trio era JM used a TS on WDYTIW.
@@JustinJeske I can't find it any more ... I think it has been removed; it was a Trio performance on the Jay Leno, or another late night show (but I think it was on the Jay Leno). It's a shame, because you could really see him stepping on the Keeley BD-2 at the beginning of the song, and on the TS808 for the solo part. I am going to try to see if I find it on Daylimotion or somewhere else. If I find it again, will link send you the link. Btw, great video and great job as always 🤙
Ahh if you can find it that’d be amazing! I’ll try searching around also if it’s one of those TV performances cause that helps narrow it down. I am open to the BD-2 being the pedal for the trio version of it, I do agree with you on the definition of the notes. Tonally wise too the chorus of Wait Till Tomorrow at that time with the 808 has more of that TS sound which doesn’t translate to WDYTIW when you compare them. That Reverse Headstock strat and it’s pickups do accentuate it a lot more but still… Hopefully we can find the shot of it!
Hey Justin, in the Letterman performance, you can clearly see that he steps on the TS808 for the solo, meaning the Keeley BD-2 was the main rhythm sound. The camera cuts away a split second before he does stop on it, but you can basically see his foot move over to where the TS808 is on the board right before he steps on it for the solo
Very impressive. My ear is not this refined. But when I listen to “experts”, it helps me identify those distinctions. Your effort is greatly appreciated.
CR 2010 is an anomaly for sure. I thought initially it was the Klon just set different than normal, then maybe he was using the TS with more gain with the Katana… might be back to the drawing board a bit. I know you have great ears Louis!
@Louis Khachaturian I think this performance just before Crossroads 2010 is the closest tonally wise to that show. He uses the Klon for the solo, so must be on top of the TS10 here. Curious to your thoughts… 🤔 ruclips.net/video/zKfhESU6TQ4/видео.html
Oh shit Im famous! Lol keep up the good work with these videos! If you’re doing Good Love next if I remember correctly from messing around with my Helix I think for sure he is using both TS10 and Bluesbreaker for that cuz I dont seem to get the right amount of gain with just a TS. And obviously a big part of that tone is the Strat in middle pickup position
I’m almost certain that when you went to then rack unit with the two tube screamers. I think he was doing TS10 > Bluesbreaker > TS10. Which is basically exactly what he did with the Klon at Love Rocks. Full circle moment.
Hey Justin, I don’t think I agree with you in a few things here. Here’s my take: The Trio record Try! was the Keeley BD-2 for the base tone and then the TS808 for the solo. This is also true of the Letterman performance. You can see John’s foot right over the TS808 going into the solo for that one. But my belief for the original live record version base tone being the BD-2 because of how much thicker and more compressed the sound is during the solo. Having owned and gigged with both of these pedals at high volumes, the BD-2 was a lot more headroom than the TS808, which compresses very easily when pushed by something. I think the Leno performance has the Katana on for the base tone and then the BD-2 added for the solo. I do believe that post Trio eta, the base tone was switched to a TS10. To me, the TS10 is a bit more open, and a lot less compressed than the TS808. It’s very easy to make a TS10 sound like a BD-2 when you dial the gain back slightly, volume up, and turn the tone up as well. I was at the Trio show at the Apollo, sat up high so I could see John’s pedalboard. He definitely had the first TS10 set with very low gain, more volume boost, and the second TS10 set with more gain. That’s what I saw and heard. Lastly what’s the common denominator in every post-Trio clip that you showed in which a TS10 sounds almost identical to the original on Try? Answer: A Fender amp. The 05 Trio era AND the most recent performance rigs contained a Fender Vibroverb. The 2017 versions have the Dual Professional. The rig from the Leno performance from early ‘06 and the music video as well, in which the tone is much cleaner, contains the Dumble Overdrive Reverb, which Mayer sold because he thought it was “too clean”. Just my thought on the topic
I think you nailed it with this observation. The older Fender amps had bass to spare, and that's why SRV got enough bass even when using Tubescreamers. But when you use them through other amps that don't have that exaggerated low end, they have a distinct thinner and reduced bass sound to me...and that's including the first SRV album "Texas Flood," when he played through the Dumble borrowed from Jackson Browne, after he blew up his Super Reverb. The opening riff of "Pride & Joy" makes that very evident. When he played live with a working Super Reverb, the Tubescreamer still sounded good...and the Super Reverb was always what I considered his best amp for his tone. And let's face it...that's predominantly Mayer's influence with his electric blues sound. I think that's what we're hearing between these performances...is a difference in the amp being used, and the tonal response from the overdrive being different. I don't think it's the only difference, but I know when I play that riff, the low bass notes through my TS9 just don't sound right even through a Super...and granted that's not an older TS808 (which I don't own), but it's the same for my TS10. TS'ers just take away some of that the low end punch, regardless of where you put the tone knob. Obviously I've never played through his Dual Professional...so I can't comment on that, nor the BD-2. What I hear is a Fender amp cranked to the point of breaking up, with a Tubescreamer providing additional boost, because it has that characteristic tone that people who followed SRV closely...or have played around with various rigs to duplicate....can immediately identify. What's funny is...I actually prefer the cleaner tone clips, because I think that riff's percussive nature is more prominent when it's cleaned up, and it's the syncopation in conjunction with the drums that makes it sound so cool. But...that's just me.
During that era, his gain pedals were a Katana, Keeley Modded Blues Driver, and a vintage TS808(he would substitute Keeley modded TS808s in the case that he couldn't use a vintage one, saying that they had the same mojo the original ones did). He then switched to the BB and then a Klon. If you want something in the spirit of a keeley modded TS808 and Blues Driver, the current production Super Phat Mod and Red Dirt are based on the mods done to those two circuits. Bluesbreaker and Klon-style pedals? There is an abundance of them out there, and I can confirm that the current Bluesbreaker reissue is as close as you can get to an original production while using the parts available today.
The Phat Mod has different output stages than the modded BD2 though. Aside from doing the mods to a standard Boss BD2, there isn't an equivalent pedal available. That said, I've heard comparison videos between the Keeley modded BD2 and the Waza BD2 and they're not that far removed.
Great video! Maybe this got lost with time, but I think it was once more commonly thought to be the TS-808. In 2009, I bought one specifically to get more of the JM Trio sound.
I gotta say I saw him live in Austin for the sob rock tour and the tone for that intro/ solo LIVE in general is just something else that doesn’t compare to any recorded audio ever. It was insane
I don't hear TS tone in the rhythm part. I'm a long time TS user and there's too much clarity, bass and definition to the notes on that riff. Hate to use a cliche, but it's a transparent pedal that's being used. At least on the Try! recording anyway.
You seem like a super sweet guy so I’m not being a prick, at all, but it’s very simple - in venues where stage volume can’t be that high (I.e. Letterman) he needs that breakup to come from pedals rather than a cranked amp. And the “how it’s supposed to sound” that you refer to at the Apollo is coming from amps that are cranked. Anyone who is stumped about this, please buy/rent a tube amp and crank it (7-8+, depending on the amp). Then use your pedals. At that tube volume, you may not need pedals at all and if you do, they’ll be turned way down. Then try to get that sound with an amp on 3 or 4. You’ll need to crank a pedal or even stack/boost them. There will be no more surprises here. John is old school and a sophisticated tone hound. This means that his primary focus is what he is getting/can get from his *amps* first, then pedals for seasoning according to the stage volume requirements of the venue. Also - my band covers this tune so I’m speaking from experience here. Every stage/rehearsal space I play requires a different recipe to get as close to the sound in my head as possible. But nothing beats the tone I get in spaces where I can crank my amps. I prefer to crank my Vibrolux with a little taste of a dumble pedal but I can also use my TS-808 or BB clone and achieve it just fine with a few EQ tweaks Great channel btw
I agree to an extent. However it’s clear when you listen to it post JM3 era that the TS10 is on for the tone. John’s amps don’t sound like that on their own at volume. You can hear the difference with any other song he performs when it’s just the amps and you get the actual clean amp sound at volume vs using an OD pedal on top of it all.
@@tomsandowtz sure but it’s not so cut and dry when he’s running 4 or 5 amps, is it? Certainly some of those amps are meant to be set up for higher headroom whereas some of them are solely for the purpose of getting amp gain. Again, I don’t know it all (for sure) but this over-emphasis on pedals strikes me as resulting from an online community of super well-intentioned and passionate people, yes, but people who haven’t played live with a band in a large variety of spaces. It’s 90% amp(s) and the stage volume that you’re allowed with a small sprinkling of pedals for taste. Y’all have great taste, no doubt, but it’s not primarily the pedals. Just my $.02
@@Johnjingleheimerschmidtt To your first point, it's well documented John only runs all amps on at once and as high headroom, clean amps. He gets all of his gain from pedals since even at his stage volume they are clean. It's why he likes amps like the Steel String Singer Dumbles and his Sig Two Rock. As someone who owns multiple 100w Two Rocks and Fenders it's not the same as taking a Fender amp like your Vibrolux and getting amp gain at stage volume. I get exactly where you are coming from, but it's not quite the case when it comes to Mayer's tone that the amps are getting him that dirtier sound.
@@tomsandowtz Im not a massive JM fan like you guys so I didn’t mean to come in here guns blazing but it took me 2 min to find nearly 10 live videos on YT with John playing through a Fender of some kind on stage. Yes, pedals matter and he uses them with great intention but you can’t discount the role of a cranked amp in his tone. I’ll die on that hill 😂
Howard are you still too much of a coward to reply? You come to the channel often and talk a lot in the comments yet never respond when I chime in. I'd love to actually have an open dialogue with you considering you always have a lot to say. But maybe that just says all any of us need to know about you 🥱
@Justin Jeske don’t listen to the haters. He’s commented on my channel before. It’s very interesting tonal differences. Personally I like the TS10 because it dumps some bass and makes those percussive takes a bit tighter.
Hey guys, I’ve been doing a lot more deep diving into the JM3 sound and gear, and I’ve also spent a lot more time using the BD-2.
JM3 2005 era tone was 100% the BD-2 lol. But post that, it was the TS10. I think I focused a bit too much on the post JM3 sound in my efforts and let that influence my position for the original 2005 era as well.
New video on the whole gear and tones of the JM3 2005 era to follow soon!
Pretty sure Mayer has been using the Bad Monkey this WHOLE time
Until he swapped it out for a Digitech rp255… wait til the market hears the news 😂
That’s Phil X
@@misterknightowlandcoyep more pedals with a 7$ circuit going for 50 leven hundred bucks.
The Mayer's secret😂😂
Dying
I’m glad I’m not the only one who loved the trio era with a huge passion
To be completely honest, I don’t know a Mayer fan who doesn’t love the trio with a passion
Main Riff Overdrives in my head were always TS for Who did you think I was and BD for Good Love. Both for Solos.
During the trio era and on the official video of WDYTIW JM used the Keeley BD-2 for the rhythm tone; you can actually hear that there is more definition to the notes, as well as more bass compared to a TS based overdriven rhythm sound. There are also a couple of videos of some TV shows performances where you can see JM stepping on the BD-2 before starting playing the song live. It is 100% the Keeley BD-2. Having said that, it is true that in live performances after the Trio era JM used a TS on WDYTIW.
Can you link me to a video where you see him step on the BD-2? Cause I’ve never seen any footage of that.
@@JustinJeske I can't find it any more ... I think it has been removed; it was a Trio performance on the Jay Leno, or another late night show (but I think it was on the Jay Leno). It's a shame, because you could really see him stepping on the Keeley BD-2 at the beginning of the song, and on the TS808 for the solo part. I am going to try to see if I find it on Daylimotion or somewhere else. If I find it again, will link send you the link. Btw, great video and great job as always 🤙
Ahh if you can find it that’d be amazing! I’ll try searching around also if it’s one of those TV performances cause that helps narrow it down. I am open to the BD-2 being the pedal for the trio version of it, I do agree with you on the definition of the notes. Tonally wise too the chorus of Wait Till Tomorrow at that time with the 808 has more of that TS sound which doesn’t translate to WDYTIW when you compare them. That Reverse Headstock strat and it’s pickups do accentuate it a lot more but still…
Hopefully we can find the shot of it!
@Hjalmar Conte do you know around what year the Jay Leno performance was?
Hey Justin, in the Letterman performance, you can clearly see that he steps on the TS808 for the solo, meaning the Keeley BD-2 was the main rhythm sound.
The camera cuts away a split second before he does stop on it, but you can basically see his foot move over to where the TS808 is on the board right before he steps on it for the solo
Very impressive. My ear is not this refined. But when I listen to “experts”, it helps me identify those distinctions. Your effort is greatly appreciated.
You are a MASTER, Justin... Thanks for your effort and for giving us these videos.
Thank you, I try 😅 ...also was just checking out your BBlues One, sounds amazing!
@@JustinJeske Ouh thanks dude!! 🤯😍
Great job with the video man!!
The Tubescreamer really is an essential/standard pedal for everyone.
Loving your channel brother! Thank you! I am learning a shit load with you!
Thanks for the commitment to details in all these JM vids, it’s a wealth of info that I don’t have to research & it’s appreciated 🙏🏻
You are absolutely correct. It doesn’t ever really sound like a blues driver.
To my ear, he sounded he used BD for trio era, TS for the WTLI, centaur for crossroads guitar festival and TS for love rocks NYC.
CR 2010 is an anomaly for sure. I thought initially it was the Klon just set different than normal, then maybe he was using the TS with more gain with the Katana… might be back to the drawing board a bit. I know you have great ears Louis!
@Louis Khachaturian I think this performance just before Crossroads 2010 is the closest tonally wise to that show. He uses the Klon for the solo, so must be on top of the TS10 here. Curious to your thoughts… 🤔
ruclips.net/video/zKfhESU6TQ4/видео.html
Oh shit Im famous! Lol keep up the good work with these videos! If you’re doing Good Love next if I remember correctly from messing around with my Helix I think for sure he is using both TS10 and Bluesbreaker for that cuz I dont seem to get the right amount of gain with just a TS. And obviously a big part of that tone is the Strat in middle pickup position
I’m almost certain that when you went to then rack unit with the two tube screamers. I think he was doing TS10 > Bluesbreaker > TS10. Which is basically exactly what he did with the Klon at Love Rocks. Full circle moment.
Hey Justin, I don’t think I agree with you in a few things here. Here’s my take:
The Trio record Try! was the Keeley BD-2 for the base tone and then the TS808 for the solo. This is also true of the Letterman performance. You can see John’s foot right over the TS808 going into the solo for that one. But my belief for the original live record version base tone being the BD-2 because of how much thicker and more compressed the sound is during the solo. Having owned and gigged with both of these pedals at high volumes, the BD-2 was a lot more headroom than the TS808, which compresses very easily when pushed by something.
I think the Leno performance has the Katana on for the base tone and then the BD-2 added for the solo.
I do believe that post Trio eta, the base tone was switched to a TS10. To me, the TS10 is a bit more open, and a lot less compressed than the TS808. It’s very easy to make a TS10 sound like a BD-2 when you dial the gain back slightly, volume up, and turn the tone up as well.
I was at the Trio show at the Apollo, sat up high so I could see John’s pedalboard. He definitely had the first TS10 set with very low gain, more volume boost, and the second TS10 set with more gain. That’s what I saw and heard.
Lastly what’s the common denominator in every post-Trio clip that you showed in which a TS10 sounds almost identical to the original on Try?
Answer: A Fender amp. The 05 Trio era AND the most recent performance rigs contained a Fender Vibroverb. The 2017 versions have the Dual Professional.
The rig from the Leno performance from early ‘06 and the music video as well, in which the tone is much cleaner, contains the Dumble Overdrive Reverb, which Mayer sold because he thought it was “too clean”.
Just my thought on the topic
I think you nailed it with this observation. The older Fender amps had bass to spare, and that's why SRV got enough bass even when using Tubescreamers. But when you use them through other amps that don't have that exaggerated low end, they have a distinct thinner and reduced bass sound to me...and that's including the first SRV album "Texas Flood," when he played through the Dumble borrowed from Jackson Browne, after he blew up his Super Reverb. The opening riff of "Pride & Joy" makes that very evident. When he played live with a working Super Reverb, the Tubescreamer still sounded good...and the Super Reverb was always what I considered his best amp for his tone. And let's face it...that's predominantly Mayer's influence with his electric blues sound.
I think that's what we're hearing between these performances...is a difference in the amp being used, and the tonal response from the overdrive being different. I don't think it's the only difference, but I know when I play that riff, the low bass notes through my TS9 just don't sound right even through a Super...and granted that's not an older TS808 (which I don't own), but it's the same for my TS10. TS'ers just take away some of that the low end punch, regardless of where you put the tone knob.
Obviously I've never played through his Dual Professional...so I can't comment on that, nor the BD-2. What I hear is a Fender amp cranked to the point of breaking up, with a Tubescreamer providing additional boost, because it has that characteristic tone that people who followed SRV closely...or have played around with various rigs to duplicate....can immediately identify.
What's funny is...I actually prefer the cleaner tone clips, because I think that riff's percussive nature is more prominent when it's cleaned up, and it's the syncopation in conjunction with the drums that makes it sound so cool. But...that's just me.
Great video. Keep it up, Justin.
great video! In your demo it does sound like for the TRY live album, the tone is a BD-2 Keeley, and a TS for the solo
Great video! lengthy, but very informative. Looking forward to a GLIOTW video.
During that era, his gain pedals were a Katana, Keeley Modded Blues Driver, and a vintage TS808(he would substitute Keeley modded TS808s in the case that he couldn't use a vintage one, saying that they had the same mojo the original ones did). He then switched to the BB and then a Klon. If you want something in the spirit of a keeley modded TS808 and Blues Driver, the current production Super Phat Mod and Red Dirt are based on the mods done to those two circuits. Bluesbreaker and Klon-style pedals? There is an abundance of them out there, and I can confirm that the current Bluesbreaker reissue is as close as you can get to an original production while using the parts available today.
The Phat Mod has different output stages than the modded BD2 though. Aside from doing the mods to a standard Boss BD2, there isn't an equivalent pedal available. That said, I've heard comparison videos between the Keeley modded BD2 and the Waza BD2 and they're not that far removed.
@@adrianhjordan1981 The Waza BD-2 is excellent, I often forget that pedal exists.
Great video! Maybe this got lost with time, but I think it was once more commonly thought to be the TS-808. In 2009, I bought one specifically to get more of the JM Trio sound.
Could we possibly get a deep dive on other trio songs in the future like out of my mind or ext
Great video
Would love to hear a breakdown of his belief intro tone in where the light is (best tone imo)
I gotta say I saw him live in Austin for the sob rock tour and the tone for that intro/ solo LIVE in general is just something else that doesn’t compare to any recorded audio ever. It was insane
Loved it, Justin! By the way, what patch cables do you use?
Can you do a video about the adrenalinn? I think it’s one of the most underrated pedals in John’s rig.
My man!
great deep dive. oops I missed the correct order of the pedals 😔🤷♂
What Drives do you think he stacks when he does his cover of Panama with the Frankenstrat?
The giant elephant in the room just might be the 250k$+ Dumble just maybe??😂😂😂
Did you say the BD was Keeley modded?
Yes he did
Is it true that he turns on Uni-Vibe for the Outro Part? Please enlightenment me Master 😅
I like the Seinfeld moment! 😂
I don't hear TS tone in the rhythm part. I'm a long time TS user and there's too much clarity, bass and definition to the notes on that riff. Hate to use a cliche, but it's a transparent pedal that's being used.
At least on the Try! recording anyway.
It’s not a transparent pedal. It’s an invisible pedal and a cranked amp, I.e. the most “transparent” “pedal” of them alll 😂
You seem like a super sweet guy so I’m not being a prick, at all, but it’s very simple - in venues where stage volume can’t be that high (I.e. Letterman) he needs that breakup to come from pedals rather than a cranked amp. And the “how it’s supposed to sound” that you refer to at the Apollo is coming from amps that are cranked.
Anyone who is stumped about this, please buy/rent a tube amp and crank it (7-8+, depending on the amp). Then use your pedals. At that tube volume, you may not need pedals at all and if you do, they’ll be turned way down. Then try to get that sound with an amp on 3 or 4. You’ll need to crank a pedal or even stack/boost them. There will be no more surprises here.
John is old school and a sophisticated tone hound. This means that his primary focus is what he is getting/can get from his *amps* first, then pedals for seasoning according to the stage volume requirements of the venue.
Also - my band covers this tune so I’m speaking from experience here. Every stage/rehearsal space I play requires a different recipe to get as close to the sound in my head as possible. But nothing beats the tone I get in spaces where I can crank my amps. I prefer to crank my Vibrolux with a little taste of a dumble pedal but I can also use my TS-808 or BB clone and achieve it just fine with a few EQ tweaks
Great channel btw
I agree to an extent. However it’s clear when you listen to it post JM3 era that the TS10 is on for the tone. John’s amps don’t sound like that on their own at volume. You can hear the difference with any other song he performs when it’s just the amps and you get the actual clean amp sound at volume vs using an OD pedal on top of it all.
@@tomsandowtz sure but it’s not so cut and dry when he’s running 4 or 5 amps, is it? Certainly some of those amps are meant to be set up for higher headroom whereas some of them are solely for the purpose of getting amp gain.
Again, I don’t know it all (for sure) but this over-emphasis on pedals strikes me as resulting from an online community of super well-intentioned and passionate people, yes, but people who haven’t played live with a band in a large variety of spaces. It’s 90% amp(s) and the stage volume that you’re allowed with a small sprinkling of pedals for taste. Y’all have great taste, no doubt, but it’s not primarily the pedals. Just my $.02
@@Johnjingleheimerschmidtt To your first point, it's well documented John only runs all amps on at once and as high headroom, clean amps. He gets all of his gain from pedals since even at his stage volume they are clean. It's why he likes amps like the Steel String Singer Dumbles and his Sig Two Rock.
As someone who owns multiple 100w Two Rocks and Fenders it's not the same as taking a Fender amp like your Vibrolux and getting amp gain at stage volume.
I get exactly where you are coming from, but it's not quite the case when it comes to Mayer's tone that the amps are getting him that dirtier sound.
@@tomsandowtz Im not a massive JM fan like you guys so I didn’t mean to come in here guns blazing but it took me 2 min to find nearly 10 live videos on YT with John playing through a Fender of some kind on stage. Yes, pedals matter and he uses them with great intention but you can’t discount the role of a cranked amp in his tone. I’ll die on that hill 😂
It sounds like a TS. Why was this controversial?
Tonal difference could also be different guitar, different room, different sound guy…
The sound is in his fingers. These guitar gods use the gear they get paid to use because they know the wannabes will buy them. Use what YOU like.
I don’t think anyone really cares dude. Omg. Let him play. Why investigate.
You think I give a fuck what your ass thinks? 😂 stop coming to my channel and hating just to hate dude. You’re rather pathetic for it.
This Howard guy’s too big of a puss to reply apparently
Howard are you still too much of a coward to reply? You come to the channel often and talk a lot in the comments yet never respond when I chime in. I'd love to actually have an open dialogue with you considering you always have a lot to say. But maybe that just says all any of us need to know about you 🥱
Howard lots of us guitar players are interested, so fuck the fuck off, and when you get there fuck off from there too.
That was a waste of 30 min
Based off your other comments I’m not surprised you got nothing outta the video
aye man just don’t come back. that’s cool with us
@Justin Jeske don’t listen to the haters. He’s commented on my channel before. It’s very interesting tonal differences. Personally I like the TS10 because it dumps some bass and makes those percussive takes a bit tighter.
….then why did you watch the whole video? you’re not being forced to.
@@brandonkolendreski8104 I always watch it all before giving my opinion.
SRV wanna be