The reason why Espinas gets special treatment is probably because he’s the first new Frontier monster in a long time. That gate to Frontier was closed when Hypnocatrice returned home and Lavasioth got locked out so seeing a monster from a game so elusive to western fans is gonna be a big deal
@@JubiSmile Or maybe because of the fact that The Great Forest IS literally it's territory according to lore. If I remember correctly, it faced an unknown Elder Dragon (likely a Kushala) over the control of it and won.
And besides its not really hes theme either. Even in sunbreak his theme is listed as the Jungle theme not the Espinas Theme. Hes also the flagship of MH Frontier so capcom wanted to make it a huge thing and gave him a remix of the old Junhle theme wich was a theme he was connected to most
@@gamecavalier3230 Anjanath is not a flagship, though. It makes no sense that Rathalos/Rathian still don't have their own themes, despite being the flagship monsters of the entire series.
@@TornaitSuperBird Personal bais here, Anjanath is sorta a sub flagship(He's In the base world startup background, he's in a lot of world art pieces, and was in the demo as the hardest monster, which most flagship are in their games demos) So he should have his own theme respectfully in my opinion
I noticed this with Rathian, Rathalos and Diablos in Tri. As much as I would like for the monsters with associated map themes for them to carry them through the games, I think the work of rhe composers just steps in. It's a lot of work to have extra music for every map and having to track every single monster appearances. However, I believe some monsters deserve the exception. Rathalos and Lagiacrus specially, I would love to see them having the Espinas treatment. Also I believe Diablos deserves it, but even tho its intros have been referencing the og desert theme, we got bloodbath in GU having a remix of freedom unite's desert. It's complicated, I just hope to see more monsters have what espinas received in the future
I mean their hunting horns already have music from the older games so it would fit perfectly. Plus rathian's chordmaker has a unique melody which I would love to hear a full version of.
Rathalos and Rathian should definitively get a theme. They are the flagship of the series and it feels so wrong when their theme songs play in their intro and then the regular theme of the zone plays in the fight. Having a unique theme is really important in how memorable the fight is and it would really help me enjoy the fight more if they had one. Barioth should also get one to help him be on par with the other members of the pseudo wyvern category.
I think the reason why he gets his own theme, is because the Great Forest still has other themes to spare. Frontier maps all have low, high, and g rank themes, so espinas can use the high rank theme without leaving the great forest without an area theme
Until this video, I thought Tri's tundra theme was actually Barioth's. As far as I know, it's even named something like subzero white knight and Barioth gets called a white knight a couple times (even in Rise)
Ok so let me break some things down that might help. First off, Espinas's theme, from the mainline perspective, is completely new. The Great Forest isn't here along with high rank themes as a concept in general, and therefore his theme is unique in this sense. Also, Espinas's Great Forest theme DOES play for him in other areas. Most importantly the Great Forest Peak arena map usually has Lao Shan Lung's theme play for it for whatever reason, but Espinas of all varieties keep their normal theme. The Tower is possibly the one exception to this for Bronze Espinas, but yeah other than that Espinas usually has his theme more heavily tied to the high rank Great Forest theme than at least Rathalos does for his own theme. I think you may not realize this, but the entire idea behind area themes is that they are designed for ONE monster, but also encompass all other monsters in an area. For example, Diablos's classic desert theme is very much tied to him to the point where Bloodbath has proper remixed versions for his 2 themes, but the theme plays for all desert monsters in the classic desert map. Why? Because the theme encompasses the aesthetic and idea of ALL of those monsters, while Bloodbath's desert remixes are ONLY for him. It's the concept behind the composition that drives the point of these themes. If you look at the official soundtracks, you see things like 3rd gen's Tundra being Barioth's theme, or 4U's Volcano being Gravios's theme. They ARE their themes, but they just share it with their home, as that theme encompasses both them and the environment they live in. Rathalos's theme is never solid because he roams the skies, finding home wherever he goes. He's a flagship of flagships, the OG, he goes where Monster Hunter goes, and his theme is just the same. Monsters whose themes aren't set properly for themselves basically follow the idea that they fit into other environments. Their aesthetic isn't completely tied to one idea, or they're just not important/unique enough to have their own theme lmao. Might I also add that most of the time, only Flagships, big bosses, or important groups of monsters normally get themes, and only in later generations where they get stronger forms might they get proper themes (Bloodbath for example). Frontier did indeed kinda not bother with this idea, as almost every monster got their own theme at some point, and a lot of monster groups like Origin and Zenith got their own themes as well. Espinas, however, is generally seen as the primary flagship among flagships in Frontier, so he's a big deal either way. Also remember that Lagiacrus's theme is just the Deserted Island theme, even though it doesn't play for him much, because he's a rival to Rathalos's title as King of the Skies, being the Lord of the Seas. He gets the same theme treatment because he's said to be designed as a 'Water Rathalos' pretty much. Espinas on the other hand is a rival to Kushala, a super strong Elder. Being an Elder level monster himself kinda sets him up for a Rajang or Deviljho treatment with getting a cool theme for his uniqueness and power.
I think yes, Rathalos, Rathian, lagi and Diablos should have their own theme based on the area associated with them. I also think Odogaron should get the Rotten Vale Battle theme, it just fits him so well. And i heavily associate that theme with Odogaron
I feel like there’s just no way the bring back odogaron in a new game without it feeling super off, unless they give him a rendition of the rotten vale theme it would feel so awkward, it’s kinda like Lagiacrus, he feels pathetic without the deserted islands theme
I'm generally in agreement, special monsters get themes but lower tiers like congalala or kulu-ya-ku do not. I think the reoccurring monsters like the raths and diablos should get their own themes too.
"Does it mean the monster and music are linked together?" Technically yes. Rathalos is the Forest and Hills theme which you can hear slightly during the Guiding Lands cutscene along with Old Jungle being Rathians which you hear a bit in the Pink Rathian cutscene for MHW. Diablos/Monoblos are linked to the Old Desert theme. Lagiacrus is linked to the Deserted Island. Barioth is linked to the Tundra theme. Flagships should definitely have their own theme and they mostly do apart from the OG ones it seems.
The answer is yes. It would be a lot harder on their musicians, but if Capcom could maintain every monster's associated theme moving forward, that would be pretty sick. They aren't going to, but it would be awesome if they did.
I was under the impression that most monsters had their own unique themes, but it turns out that's only because the ones that stick, really stick and often turn into direct associations with certain monsters. Like, the Great Jaggi's theme is apparently used for all the -ggi type monsters in 3U, but when I hear it, all I can think of are the Jaggis doing their frantic hopping that only happens when their leader is there. Same with the Deserted Island theme, which I only associate with Lagiacrus. For some reason, only with Rise did I start to notice how many monsters actually use the "generic area theme". I thought Capcom cheaped out at first, because I didn't realize (because of the above) how many monsters don't *actually* have a theme even before Rise. I usually block out music during fights because my adrenaline runs high, so that also contributes to me being a bit illiterate when it comes to BGMs, I'd assume. At the end of the day, because the BGM often becomes a blur to me, it probably wouldn't matter if they changed it, but at least on paper, I think it's a bit weird certain monsters get their own themes but others don't. Like, I'd assume all the flagships got their own because their battles are usually important in the story, but no, only some of them do. I'd prefer consistency. Aldo, I think it's a bit of a missed opportunity too. I played Bloodborne last year and that game's boss music kind of controls the rythm of the fight and thus has real personality.
But it is the case, all flagships do get their own themes, those that don’t are very much exceptions. Out of the 15 flagship monsters from the mainline series (or 19 if you count mizutsune, astalos, gammoth and bloodbath diablos) only 2 don’t have their own theme, rathalos and Lagiacrus, rathalos is understandable, he was the first one and there was basically no standard set at the time, in MH1 the only monsters that get their own themes are Lao Shan lung, kirin and fatalis, which are coincidentally the 3 elder dragons of the game. Lagiacrus is just weird tho, there’s really no explanation as to why they didn’t make the deserted islands theme his own exclusively and make another one for the area besides potential monetary constraints (it’s possible they were spread thin due to how much effort went into creating water combat)
For me it really depends on the monsters and how it would work going forward Like, Rathalos Rathian Lagiacrus and maybe Barioth should have their own themes reflective of the main maps associated with them at this point, but in regards to a monster that's newer to the series (like Zamtrios and Goss Harag as my examples), should they get unique themes after their only map appearance of using a specific theme? Anjanath didn't get that treatment when it came back for Rise (there was no hint of Ancient Forest's music), so should a monster like Zamtrios get the Frozen Seaway music integrated into a specific theme for it? I'd personally say that monsters unique to only one area like Frost Islands or Frozen Seaway should keep the generic area's theme since it makes sense (you're only fighting the monster there, so the music composed already can reflect them), and the same can be done with lower-tier monsters like Great Izuchi or Tetranodon, but when you get to higher threats that are fought in more than one place (Espinas, Rathalos, etc.), they get their own unique music
Capcom will probably have nods here and there going forward. Even though Anjanath first appears in the desert in Rise, there is a snippet of the Ancient Forest theme in the Rise Volcano map. I took a photo of Anjanath with glowing eyes in the caves so I now associate that map with him 😅
I think Rathalos and Lagiacrus should have them on account of them being flagships. Wouldn't mind Rathian having one as well but those two are the only ones I think *need* a theme because it's unfair all the other flagships have them but not those two.
Idk if it would be better to have every monster have a theme. On the one hand, it would add more personality and uniqueness to each monsters, so I get it. However there are several points that makes me like the fact that not all monsters have unique themes. First, a shared area theme links monsters from the same map together, which helps them feel like a part of their environment. Secondly, we can probably expect lesser quality themes as the number of themes grow, so keeping it exclusive might keep them better. Thirdly there are monsters you’ll hunt way less often than others, so having an area theme makes sure the track you’re listening to will be iconic and you will remember it. The unique themes are generally given in priority to important monsters or monsters you’re going to hunt a lot. I think this way of doing is efficient. Lastly, I like that most common monsters have the area theme, because when you encounter a monster and hear a new theme, you know it’s a serious threat. The fact that you hear different music is a narrative tool that sets apart the monster from the rest, which makes you tense and excited to take on the challenge. If every monster had their own theme, it would just be normal, and the music would lose its power as a tool to hype up specific monsters. Basically the more rare it is, the more of an impact it makes.
Super interesting, I can’t believe I didn’t know about rathians dedicated theme! I wish more monsters had dedicated theme music. One of my biggest gripes with Rise is the lack of dedicated themes for the newcomers.
I think in my opinion, flagship monster should get their own battle theme so the flagship monster/s can be classified as a special monster for their return/new game
I like that they kept the Great Forest theme, so why not keep doing that? Turn zone themes into dedicated monster themes for fan favorite monsters in following games. Like if they bring Odogaron back give him Rotten Vale for instance.
i think espinas having the great forest theme, means that if great forest map returns in the future it will have its new theme just like how sandy plains got a new one...
I think that the way it is right now is good because it makes the more special monsters stand out. If every monster had its own theme people would not really pay attention anymore because it would be like ehh why should I? As it is right now however you have these select ones(mostly flagships, elders and invaders) that have their own theme and everytime it comes up you have this moment of realisation that you are hunting something unique and special.
Yes, there should be more unique battle themes, specifically for higher rank monsters. Almudron deserves a unique theme since he mostly shows up just all over the shop whilst being a very dedicated, engaged fight, but Goss, Rakna, Legiana, Lagiacrus, Barioth, Anjanath and Odogaron should have themes not wholly identical to in composition, but heavily inspired by, their main locales, so if their locales ever somehow show up in future games, those locales can have their battle themes whilst the aforementioned monsters have unique themes that play on the locale theme, elevate it, show you that they are the postcard monster for those themes.
I love the themes and they definitely break up the monotony of the battle themes. But I've also just had weird experiences, where now, you have so many big, flagship monsters in each game, I'll be fighting Nargacuga and then Mizu will show up and its theme will take precedent and I dont really know why. like I'm curious to see the code that has the hierarchy of themes in it. But what Im getting at is that it starts to feel like, a bit too gimmicky when each monster has its own theme and then suddenly I'm expected to thematically focus on the monster with the theme currently playing or something. It worked well in older titles and in newer ones (but less often) because most of the monsters were kind of simple, but unique (because they were all new) and you would only have like 3 or 4 monsters with their own themes, clearly very loud and imposing designs and it worked all together. Deviljhos theme is like, iconic because of how out of place it is with most other themes and it makes sense it takes precedent, Jho commands the area. But now you have so many flagships that feel like they take up half the roster so they're always fighting for your attention because they're all so visually and thematically loud, its kind of distracting, and the music is just a weird part of that for me. (this was more a rant about flagships, but basically if every monster was treated like a flagship and had its own theme, this sort of thing would happen more)
I think one thing new gen has to deal with musically that old gen didn't is we generally have more monsters to a map now, and the few many-monster quests of the past were generally set in the arena with that theme play, even happening to date. Maybe the solution would be some weird multi-layered hybrid custom situational music system that just played select layers of themes and did some tempo and/or pitch shifting depending on what monsters were present and what was focused or most prevalent?
It's important to keep in mind when the theme first plays, in mhtri/3u the deserted island theme is first heard in the 1 star quest with lagiacrus, and then in the repel quest with lagiacrus. It's only after that that we actually hear it with a different monster specifically with Rathian. This isn't the case with anjanath, as it's also heard with pukei pukei and tobi-kadachi before we hear it from anjanath. Maybe you could here it if anjanath invaded your hunt, but it's not "forced" like with lagiacrus.
If you want a quick and easy answer to “why does Espinas get his own battle music, but Rathalos doesn’t?”, it is pretty simple. Espinas is the first migration from Frontier, and more than likely not the last. As he is the patented good boy from the dead game, Capcom probably wanted him to really stand out to ensure his arrival made an impression to those who had never fought him, and to invoke nostalgia in those that did. I think you’re too deep in the weeds, trying to invoke some greater meaning from theme song association. As for: should every monster get their own theme? Yes but no. I’d love if every monster had their own jingle, but realistically I think it’s best they don’t, for development’s sake. Making sure every monster has their own tune would take enormous resources and time, which means we’d have smaller rosters or longer dev time. Not to mention that inevitably some themes will inadvertently sound similar, leading to a degradation of theme uniqueness.
Don't the bears have their own theme still? I do like the idea of similar monsters having like their own styles tbey kinda share (espectially if they came packaged together in like one game), flagships getting their own which most I Believe do post like MHDos, which is why id also say Espinas has it's own theme. it came with a new map in terms of the jungle, it originated on another map in frontier, and it's also a flagship OF frontier, it's the perfect storm to have its own theme in Sunbreak
Espinas new theme is insanely satysfying to hear a moment I had with the improved AI was him charging at you like a bull like furious rajang and chasing me far down my path cause I wanted to run away the fact they can catch up to you while running at extreme speed with the music was perfect
I've always been under the impression that locale themes are inspired by certain monsters, but far from exclusive, like I never knew Jungle's theme was even inspired by congalala, jungle's theme could've easily been velocidrome's, bulldrome's, daimyo's, or kut-ku's theme just with a different title. But also, I'm glad that some themes haven't come back, it allows old minor monsters to come back and actually let locale themes shine, something that makes older games worth going back to to experience. Imagine only being able to hear the shrine ruins theme while fighting G.Izuchi, Aknosom, and Tetronadon because all the other older monsters that show up there are playing their own themes over everything. This also has a benefit of allowing old themes that you dislike a chance to die and never come back lol. For Espinas specifically I can understand why an exception was made, its the first frontier monster since FU, a series that I felt has always been kinda swept under the rug by capcom, so to pay proper homage and respect to it, the series flagship also brought some music that I wouldn't be surprised being inspired by the espinas fight
i feel like either way, new soundtrack or old area theme remix, espinas was considered significant enough from several standpoints (first frontier monster in mainline, the difficulty of the battle, the strength of the monster within lore) that they wouldve given it a theme song anyway. it just seems like a happy coincidence that the great forest theme was erratic enough to suit a monster with a battle like espinas. i guess they just went "oh cool we dont have to compose a Whole New Song lets just remix this one" i have a feeling when lagiacrus for example makes its return, it will also be considered significant enough from multiple standpoints, so that it will get either a remix of the deserted island theme or a new theme. the problem is maintaining a balance between monsters with their own themes and those without, so that you actually get to hear the area themes, while also giving a greater sense of importance to Capital-I *Important* monsters, whether theyre old returning fan-favourites (regardless of whether they had their own theme before or not) or the shiny new flagship of the game but maybe this whole discussion is silly and the reason espinas got its own theme is either a) nostalgia bait, b) someone on the team saying "hey i like the great forest theme is there a way to put it in our new game somehow" OR c) both of the previous answers (or something like it)
@@gamecavalier3230 they released in both frontier and freedom unite (i think it was freedom unite? im not 100% sure) around the same time so they dont really count, since they never really were frontier-exclusives to begin with
@@gamecavalier3230 They were meant to be shared since the beginning, the also both got designed by the main team. And Frontier players complained because at that time they were only exclusive monsters in Frontier and they had to pay a subscription (and without unique monsters it was pretty much a scam)
@@gamecavalier3230 they were not intended to remain exclusive to begin with. also they arent THE frontier monster the same way espinas is considered by some... though i do think some people will be overjoyed if they announced hypnocatrice is coming back in a similar manner to the way they were for espinas' return
This reminds me how upset I was that Barioth didn't get a unique theme in Iceborne, yet his introduction cutscene clearly has a musical reference to the 3U tundra theme
If a Area has its own Team it helps building up Atmosphere and if you finaly encounter a Monster whit unique theme, it just flashes that Monster out extra.
something of note is that as far as I know in monster hunter 4 ultimate until G rank Zamtrios is the only monster in the frozen seaway that uses the map theme. so technically until G rank with tidal najarala the frozen seaway theme is Zamtrios's theme
I think now that in 5th gen it's very common for monsters to cross paths and fight each other, limiting the amount of monsters that have special themes is actually a good thing. When I'm fighting a monster with the generic map theme and then suddenly a rajang or mizu shows up and the music changes it's fun, but having too many monsters together with unique themes can become a little jumbled as they keep starting and stopping every time a new monster enters the area
I like how only some monsters have their own theme, but I think *more* monsters deserve this treatment. Rathian, Rathalos, Diablos, and a bunch of other monsters deserve to have unique themes to match their unique status in the series.
I think Barioth and Gigginox (if it ever returns), should both get their own themes. They used to share the same song (Subzero White Knight), but what stands out to me about that song is the contrast between the organised, methodical sections and the more horror-like sections with a piano that almost sounds “mashed”. I think you could make these both into two separate songs that would fit either monster separately.
I think certain monsters do deserve there own themes but I do associate certain regular battle themes to regular monsters. For instance I associate Deserted Island battle theme (technically Lagicrus's theme) mainly to Lagicrus, and Rathain. In this instance I think its confusing but it works, maybe its because there's 15 monsters. I don't think tri had unique battle themes and yet I feel like they fit a good amount of the monsters when you fight them. The monsters that are deserving of unique themes are flagships, invaders and elders to me these are the most memorable monsters and what makes each mh title stand out, other than the aesthetic.
A bit late to the aprty here, but with sunbreak update 2 being released, I wanted to add something regarding how capcom should use tracks going forward. It's something I noticed in some very specific fights in world/iceborne as well but it struck me really hard with the new sunbreak update. I'm talking about the new Violet Mizutsune fight. It starts off with the arena music, the eerie theme of the infernal springs, but when you reach its first enhanced state, it transitions to Mizutsune's theme. This creates a brilliant effect where you know shit is about to happen, it raises the stakes in such a visceral way. So yeah, I'd like most high threats monsters to have a similar treatment. Having the area's generic battle track as you start the encounter and have it transitioned to a monster specific theme at some point, depending on how the monster works.
What I would like for them to do is monsters like barioth who are associated with a area theme would use it as their theme if that area isn't in that game.
I totally agree with you hat the Roar/Verdant Hills music should just be used as Rathalo's theme. He's like the Pikachu of Monster Hunter so they should do that so he ins't too overshadowed by the other flagship monsters that keep beating him up in the cutscenes.
Note that in basically all crossover content featuring Rathalos, any music associated with Rathalos Roar is his theme too. I always found it strange that he was never allowed to use it. Even stranger, in Iceborne, the first phase of Fatalis is a remix of Roar (which apparently played in the original Fatalis fight but don’t count me on that). So is Roar Rathalos’ theme or not?
I feel like because of this treatment, when or if we get lagiacrus back, we might get a remix of the deserted island theme, seeing as how most people accosiate the two People do the same with Ratholos and the verdant hills theme, but I don't see them closing that link
The Flooded forest thing is a reimagination of the original theme, just like Jungle or Any flagship of rise, the theme is named for Gobul in third gen, so its basically Its theme, but there IS no Gobul in 5th gen
I think the general rule of thumb that Capcom uses to decide what theme a monster gets, is that in order for it to have its own 'unique' theme, it must be an apex of a certain map. If this is the case, it will (most often) adopt the theme of the locale that it is an apex of. Sure it's not consistent in terms of in-game music tracks, but as you've shown, monsters often DO get their unique music in cutscenes, even if it's merely in the form of a leitmotif. It would ofcourse be more interesting if these cutscene tracks carried over to the actual battle tracks, but doing so would probably be too costly for Capcom, like you suggested with a quick text in the video. Espinas getting special treatment isn't the wildest thing really, seeing as it's the apex of the Great Forst, and its music in Sunbreak is a remix of that very track, again following the rule I proposed here. Overall I was pretty disappointed that Rise's new monsters didn't get their own tracks, but it makes sense, and I think the way they're handling it now is just fine.
I think every monster should indeed have their own theme. Every monster, even the entry gate newbie monsters, bring something to the table for the game and they all should be treated uniquely. At the very least though, Rathalos and Rathian should both have a theme unique to them since they've been in the franchise since day 1, and are the mascots of the game. I've always understood kinda like why some of the lesser monsters didn't have a theme, but never understood why Rathalos and Rathian were always using the generic themes for the areas.
In general I kinda wish they would give "special," monsters their own themes. If Yian-Garuga gets his own theme, certainly monsters like Garangolm or Lunagaron should have their own themes, they were heavily hyped up before Sunbreak dropped. It feels like most generations have at least one or two non-flagship/final boss monsters with their own themes; Deviljho, Rajang, Bazelgeuse to name a few. Rathalos and Rathian should have one (perhaps shared), but I doubt Rathalos will ever get Forest and Hills theme for himself because Fatalis has essentially claimed it.
I would love to hear more themes for specific monsters, I loved seeing all the mosnster specific themes in iceborne. I understand why everyone doesn't get one though. My only question is why did only one of the main trio in sunbreak get a theme? Luna and golm needed more love I think
I think every flagship should have it's own theme (Raths should have either the Old Jungle or Verdant Hills theme, and Lagiacrus should have the Deserted Isle theme) After that, mostly depends on how impactful/formidable the monster is. Obviously elders should have their own themes (which most do, barring Kirin post MHDos) and end tier non-elders like Rajang, Garuga, and Deviljho as well. I'm surprised monsters like Goss Harag didn't get a theme in Rise, or Anjanath in World. Otherwise I think map themes are alright to have for the rest. I think Espinas getting the HR version of the Great Froest theme makes sense since he's both a flagship and a very important icebreaker for Frontier monsters as a whole.
I mean espinas IS a special monster. The first frontier monster in a mainline game, the first triple affliction monster too, and it is also unique in how it behaves (being sleepy all the time and then almost instantly enraging and taking more damage during enrage) It deserves a little special treatment, its a cool monster!
I would say yes, but it depends of the monster, I think bulldrome, Velocidrome, Yian Kut ku, Congalala, Lagombi, Barroth, Kecha Wacha don't need a battle theme, but I think stronger monsters like Blangonga, Gravios, Agnaktor or Odogarons should have a original battle theme, so I think every map should have a music when you fight minot threats, but it should be replaced when you fight a stronger monster.
Espinas *is* a flagship of sorts, he's a flagship of the first new frontier monster in the mainline games in a long time, and a very popular one at that, unlike lavasioth
Personally I think the raths should get there theme tied to them but the biggest crime Lagiacrus theme not being tied to him properly but then again they do Lagiacrus dirty but the deserted Island theme should be tied to him properly Also I've always felt that the Sunken hollow theme always belonged to Nerscyla and I hope they start properly typing themes to all these monsters
The real answer from Capcom is probably really more pragmatic than there is actual reason for why there aren't unique battle music for every monster. Lower tier monsters most definitely dont need a special theme, maybe its just the game director with the actual vision for monsters per game iteration who decides if they need the music director to make a new/special arrangement for certain monsters because they want to emphasize its difference with other monsters.
I personally agree rathalos and lagi should have its theme during their fights (Kirin as well) but rathain I'm not personally bothered by as me personally see the old jungle theme as less a song about rathain and more of a representation of the 1st couple MH games. I also do agree we don't need to go overboard and give every monster associated with a theme said theme especially since the new maps still need to have time in the sun and giving maps their theme that you hear regularly enough helps with that massively with one example for me being rises lava caverns.
Kulu Ya Ku theme slaps btw but I don't understand how the hell they gave him one. It's so random for a Bird Wyvern lmao Probably some nonsense from the Ancient Forests full album but eh
In my opinion, invader monsters should be the only ones to get their own themes, as they are the only ones to cause actual trouble in hunts, except in Rise where tragically all normal invaders are nerfed to oblivion as they are practically free mounts.
I think it'd be cool if each monster had a theme... HOWEVER 1) Composing, arranging, performing, and producing a unique and distinct theme for each monster is a LOT of time and budget. It's *possible*, sure, but I don't think it's plausible unless you want to wait an additional several years for each MH game. 2) Each *monster fight* at times isn't even that distinct! Do you really want a unique theme for Great Izuchi, Great Baggi, Great Jaggi, Great Jagras, and Royal Ludroth? I feel like for economy of time and money, the threshold of only some monsters getting their own theme exists for a practical reason. Some don't... really need one. Which ones do is something that's highly subjective, and usually dependent on who fan faves are, and/or if the monster plays a significant role in the game (eg. flagships) 3) I dunno if 'Nostalgia Bait' is excessively uncharitable, as it gives an impression of dishonesty or underhandedness. I think if fans really really enjoyed a theme for one monster, but that monster doesn't play a particularly prominent role in a future title, it seems reasonable to me to attach that general battle theme to a map. That way, people who enjoyed it, get to hear it more often. Also, new fans aren't going to notice or care, and just go, "Hey this theme slaps!" As someone who came to the series with Worldborne and has continued through RiseBreak, that was my impression. I was just excited to have such great music around me all the time.
Well, the way it works is fine. That each area theme is assigned a monster. Espinas gets it becuase it was still kinda his theme, and I guess they do want to hype him up more.
I think that Roar, specifically for Rathalos, should come back every game for them. Rathalos is still presented as a pretty powerful threat even in the newer titles (High Rank and MR Rathalos had a great rework in Rise/Sunbreak), and it's definitely an amazing nastolgia piece for the monster that was the first flagship. What really separates something like Nargacuga, Zinogre, etc from Rathalos in terms of power or legacy befitting a theme? Why doesn't the old Fanged Beast theme come back when they have all 3 in a game as well?
This is just something I'm trying to remember from high school band class, but I get the impression that some alterations of older themes like Crimson Horn or even smaller changes through Leitmotifs are put in intentionally to convey a progression in the evolution of the series. You thought fighting a one horned demon was already expressive? Check out the size of it's cousin and how pissed it can get if you try to tame it like a bull. It also doesn't corner composers in these unique circumstances where there are so many iconic monsters that your trying to make stand out from one another. Some are going to be jobbers like most of the pack mammals who can sit rightfully within the confines of their environment theme. Some are too important not to get significant thought about how they will be perceived through sound - especially when it's something that a great deal of Japanese fans might know but everyone else doesn't in the case of Espinas. Plus you wouldn't really have the impact that the greats have if it was even possible to create distinct and amazing themes for all the monsters, they would all just gel together and not stick to our memory. Or even worse we would get bored of listening to battle music entirely because it could be perceived as one similar, repetitive track. These type of game loops make designing the tracks very difficult.
The only ones that need themes are the Flagships, Flagship-Adjacents (like the other members of the Fated Four), Elders, and the F-U Crew (Jho, Jang ,Geuse and Garuga)
Dude it's a freaking flagship ??? it's exactly like saying "why magnamalo has his own theme" ???? and saying the ost depended on the map in frontier is completely false, it's not because you saw ONE quest like that that it's always the case.
Complete side tangent, but I find it interesting and cool that the elements of Rathalos’ theme are also apparent in Iceborne’s Fatalis theme. Just wanted to put that out there
Not every monster should have dedicated music but it's nice to have exceptions... Just like the forest theme could be associated with espinas in the future, i think it could be the same for lagiacrus and the theme that plays in the deserted island (whenever he comes back 😢)
The area themes have always set a certain tone and atmosphere to the map, I don't think at all they're deserving of neglect just because they have a tendency of being titled after a specific monster. Whether the Rath wyverns should have their own themes is another debate on its own, they're iconic to the series, but typically also "average" monsters within the game and also world, I think it'd be okay for either outcome for them. I think Espinas was considered more of a special occasion.
I would love to live in a world where all monsters get their own themes, but I understand that that’s not very necessary in the long run. Still, I would like to see at least the Raths and Lagiacrus get their own themes. The Raths especially, seeing as they are the flagships of the whole series. Still, as long as the music is good, I’m fine with pretty much anything.
I do believe that every monster that has a theme that they are associated with (Barioth, Rathalos, Monoblos etc.) shouöd get to keep that Theme for themselves if they reapear in newer games...
that's like Metal Sonic's theme is Stardust Speedway Bad Future Also Fatalis is all "Rathalos theme and some Kokoto village and boom I have a theme now!" Rathalos "Dafuq?! Not cool i'm the Pikachu of Monster Hunter!"
I'd like if it was as you say, the monster with associated themes should get to keep that theme, usually map themes are associated with the strongest non-flagship monster, it always has been like this and I would like it if it stayed that way. Something that I didn't see you mention, maybe because they haven't done it in a while, is that starter monster groups were given themes, like the Greats, the Fanged Beast Trio, the Dromes in Generations I think, and maybe the Ya-Kus if I remember correctly. Also, could you please tell me what version or cover of the Pokke theme you used in your Outro?
Rise's original themes actually aren't attributed to its original monsters at all. The only original monsters that get themes (in base Rise) are Magnamalo and the Storm Serpents (Ibushi, Narwa). The Apex monsters all get a shared theme, though that's only when you fight them in the Rampage- and they're all powered-up versions of returning monsters, anyways. In Sunbreak, this is even worse. There's only four brand new large monsters, and two of them have unique themes (one being a final boss). The Three Lords honestly feel like a shoehorned idea. Lunagaron and Garangolm don't even get to have maps of their own to lord over, just sections of the same map- so it makes sense why they have to share a theme, essentially. Interesting thing to note; the Afflicted monsters technically do have a "theme", but it's actually a sting that plays every time you initiate battle with them- before going into the locale theme or the monster's own theme (if it's a flagship).
Rathalos and Rathian should get a theme, along with Diablos+Monoblos, but everyone else should keep the default. That way we could have new themes to go with other monsters, like ancient forest/anjanath, rotten vale/odogaron, coral highlands/legiana. However, one problem abt monster themes is that they start to clash. I dislike when Tigrex enters the area in rise, as it basically steals the show from most monsters.
Ye they should. In the past the most monsters got a track that served the character of the monster well. The espinas track is sick ,love it and gives me a hectically feeling in the fight wich I really enjoy with the fast paced Combat.
There are currently two wolves inside me: There should NOT be music for every individual monster, because it takes away from the aesthetic that monster hunter already has. Lagombi, for me, doesn't invoke the sense of "Why am I hearing boss music?" Like a classical medieval dragon that shoots pillars of fire and is stated to be the literal embodiment of fury towards monster hunters like Fatalis. If Khezu had a theme for example, it would take away from that fight's creepiness, since having no music during the battle means you HAVE to listen to every single uncomfortable noise Khezu makes. Sometimes the music that comes from the specific map has enough merit to invoke a sense of when it's battle time. The other says every monster should have unique battle music, because I like monster hunter music and want more of it.
The HR5 Great Forest theme was dedicated to Espinas when it was made which is probs why the Sunbreak devs included it as the theme for Espinas, if we see something like Akura or Berukyurosu, we can expect to see remixes of the HR5 Desert theme for the former and the HR5 Gorge theme for the latter.
I think it's better if only flagships get an unique theme, you can make remixes of forest and hills for rathalos and desert island for lagiacrus, that way you could also integrate the maps with a more classic version of the themes
Something you forgot to mention is that most of the monsters that have themes are ether flagships, invading monsters, or Elder Dragons/Last bosses. You're right that it's strange that they don't use specific themes for Rathalos and Rathian, but imo only Rathalos would make sense given these rules. Rathian was never a flagship monster! That said, that's exactly WHY they gave Espinas a unique battle theme--he's the flagship monster of Frontier (or at least, whatever version it was he came out in). It makes sense then that they would use the most well-known/catchy song associated with him. As for Rathalos, I feel like the choice to not use its theme is because it is also used for Fatalis (arranged, of course), and they likely want to save that impact for Fatalis. That and, I feel like Rathalos having a new theme in every game is sort of... fun? Or most, anyway. You come to associate the Lagiacrus theme with it since its fought on that map a lot in Tri, World it's the Forest Map's battle theme where he's the Apex monster there, Rise it's the Volcano theme. All other monsters that get themes that persist across different games are invading monsters (Yian Garuga, Rajang, Deviljho, Bazelgeuse, etc), Elder Dragons, or final bosses (also usually Elder Dragons). Obviously some variants of existing flagships/elder dragons get their own themes/arranges but those fall into the same rules. This is why monsters like Barioth, Great Jaggi, etc have named themes clearly referencing them, but they do not persist across the games. They are technically just the battle themes for those maps, and since those monsters are not flagships, they are deemed not important enough to have themes. Even variants that seem deserving don't (Frostfang Barioth, Violet Mizutsune, etc). In some cases, I think it's a big shame, but it's very consistent. On a final note, examples like Monoblos + Diablos, those two monsters are clearly related, so it's not that strange for Diablos to use music associated with Monoblos. I do think that a lot of the monster intros do just use songs that will draw on nostalgia VS them necessarily being the monster's strict theme.
From a design standpoint we need general map themes for things like small monster engagements or transitions/chase themes but it is weird they haven't associated particular themes with some monsters. They even gave Fatalis this Rathalos theme in it's music but since Iceborne everyone calls that the "Fatalis theme" despite him having like 4 different variations. It's inconsistent.
I would love the monsters that do have themes or are heavily connected should always have their themes alongside them, Lagiacrus and Deserted Island theme are both known as the same theme for each, what also gives the strong connection to it being specifically Lagiacrus as well is that they name it in the Live Orchestra as Lagiacrus's theme, not Deserted Island, even though in those games that's the map's theme and when Lagi is in Flooded Forest, they don't play his theme
I think the statement near the end is very much an overgeneralized statement, "I guess the point I'm making is that, ultimately, it doesn't matter and I don't think Capcom actually cares. Espinas got special treatment because it's a beloved Frontier monster and they want to nostalgia bait fans of Frontier." You have to ignore practically everything about Espinas and what its inclusion in Sunbreak represents and means for the future of the series to get to that statement.
this is strangely enough the treatment Rathalos has on certain aspects: Rathalos Feroce, the HH, plays a bit of the Verdant Hills theme, I'm sure Rathalos is usually represented outside in crossovers with that track too, despite also lacking a theme, and by now Capcom settled on that in stone.
it isnt just the standard great forest battle music that got a remix. its actually the HR5~/Goushu rank great forest battle theme that espinas uses a remix of in rise
The reason why Espinas gets special treatment is probably because he’s the first new Frontier monster in a long time. That gate to Frontier was closed when Hypnocatrice returned home and Lavasioth got locked out so seeing a monster from a game so elusive to western fans is gonna be a big deal
Or maybe Capcom are just mental with their ost choices
@@JubiSmile or maybe because he's literally known as the lord of the great forest
@@JubiSmile Or maybe because of the fact that The Great Forest IS literally it's territory according to lore. If I remember correctly, it faced an unknown Elder Dragon (likely a Kushala) over the control of it and won.
He's also the flagship of the entirety of frontier
And besides its not really hes theme either. Even in sunbreak his theme is listed as the Jungle theme not the Espinas Theme. Hes also the flagship of MH Frontier so capcom wanted to make it a huge thing and gave him a remix of the old Junhle theme wich was a theme he was connected to most
Now that Espinas have his own theme. There's no reason Lagia wouldn't have deserted island theme, or rathalos having Forest and Hills theme in MH6
Lagiacrus was the first thing that came to mind
@@gamecavalier3230 Anjanath is not a flagship, though.
It makes no sense that Rathalos/Rathian still don't have their own themes, despite being the flagship monsters of the entire series.
counterpoint about rathalos, forest and hills theme is really not that good.
@@fimtendo654 I admit that it isn't that good either, but if they improved fatalis theme so much in IB, I bet they can make it better
@@TornaitSuperBird Personal bais here, Anjanath is sorta a sub flagship(He's In the base world startup background, he's in a lot of world art pieces, and was in the demo as the hardest monster, which most flagship are in their games demos) So he should have his own theme respectfully in my opinion
I noticed this with Rathian, Rathalos and Diablos in Tri. As much as I would like for the monsters with associated map themes for them to carry them through the games, I think the work of rhe composers just steps in. It's a lot of work to have extra music for every map and having to track every single monster appearances. However, I believe some monsters deserve the exception. Rathalos and Lagiacrus specially, I would love to see them having the Espinas treatment. Also I believe Diablos deserves it, but even tho its intros have been referencing the og desert theme, we got bloodbath in GU having a remix of freedom unite's desert. It's complicated, I just hope to see more monsters have what espinas received in the future
I mean their hunting horns already have music from the older games so it would fit perfectly. Plus rathian's chordmaker has a unique melody which I would love to hear a full version of.
Rathalos and Rathian should definitively get a theme. They are the flagship of the series and it feels so wrong when their theme songs play in their intro and then the regular theme of the zone plays in the fight. Having a unique theme is really important in how memorable the fight is and it would really help me enjoy the fight more if they had one. Barioth should also get one to help him be on par with the other members of the pseudo wyvern category.
I think the reason why he gets his own theme, is because the Great Forest still has other themes to spare.
Frontier maps all have low, high, and g rank themes, so espinas can use the high rank theme without leaving the great forest without an area theme
I would personally like Barioth to have his own theme, pheraps a remix of Tri's Tundra
Until this video, I thought Tri's tundra theme was actually Barioth's. As far as I know, it's even named something like subzero white knight and Barioth gets called a white knight a couple times (even in Rise)
Yes pls, we need to bring back more old remixes for existing monsters
@@justsomejojo It...is, though, if we go by World/IB intros. Rathalos's intro plays F&H to give another example.
@@justsomejojo It is his theme. It's just that he's not a flagship, so he doesn't get to take the theme with him into later games lol
Ok so let me break some things down that might help. First off, Espinas's theme, from the mainline perspective, is completely new. The Great Forest isn't here along with high rank themes as a concept in general, and therefore his theme is unique in this sense.
Also, Espinas's Great Forest theme DOES play for him in other areas. Most importantly the Great Forest Peak arena map usually has Lao Shan Lung's theme play for it for whatever reason, but Espinas of all varieties keep their normal theme. The Tower is possibly the one exception to this for Bronze Espinas, but yeah other than that Espinas usually has his theme more heavily tied to the high rank Great Forest theme than at least Rathalos does for his own theme.
I think you may not realize this, but the entire idea behind area themes is that they are designed for ONE monster, but also encompass all other monsters in an area. For example, Diablos's classic desert theme is very much tied to him to the point where Bloodbath has proper remixed versions for his 2 themes, but the theme plays for all desert monsters in the classic desert map.
Why? Because the theme encompasses the aesthetic and idea of ALL of those monsters, while Bloodbath's desert remixes are ONLY for him. It's the concept behind the composition that drives the point of these themes. If you look at the official soundtracks, you see things like 3rd gen's Tundra being Barioth's theme, or 4U's Volcano being Gravios's theme. They ARE their themes, but they just share it with their home, as that theme encompasses both them and the environment they live in.
Rathalos's theme is never solid because he roams the skies, finding home wherever he goes. He's a flagship of flagships, the OG, he goes where Monster Hunter goes, and his theme is just the same. Monsters whose themes aren't set properly for themselves basically follow the idea that they fit into other environments. Their aesthetic isn't completely tied to one idea, or they're just not important/unique enough to have their own theme lmao.
Might I also add that most of the time, only Flagships, big bosses, or important groups of monsters normally get themes, and only in later generations where they get stronger forms might they get proper themes (Bloodbath for example).
Frontier did indeed kinda not bother with this idea, as almost every monster got their own theme at some point, and a lot of monster groups like Origin and Zenith got their own themes as well. Espinas, however, is generally seen as the primary flagship among flagships in Frontier, so he's a big deal either way.
Also remember that Lagiacrus's theme is just the Deserted Island theme, even though it doesn't play for him much, because he's a rival to Rathalos's title as King of the Skies, being the Lord of the Seas. He gets the same theme treatment because he's said to be designed as a 'Water Rathalos' pretty much.
Espinas on the other hand is a rival to Kushala, a super strong Elder. Being an Elder level monster himself kinda sets him up for a Rajang or Deviljho treatment with getting a cool theme for his uniqueness and power.
I think yes, Rathalos, Rathian, lagi and Diablos should have their own theme based on the area associated with them. I also think Odogaron should get the Rotten Vale Battle theme, it just fits him so well. And i heavily associate that theme with Odogaron
I feel like there’s just no way the bring back odogaron in a new game without it feeling super off, unless they give him a rendition of the rotten vale theme it would feel so awkward, it’s kinda like Lagiacrus, he feels pathetic without the deserted islands theme
I'm generally in agreement, special monsters get themes but lower tiers like congalala or kulu-ya-ku do not. I think the reoccurring monsters like the raths and diablos should get their own themes too.
"Does it mean the monster and music are linked together?" Technically yes. Rathalos is the Forest and Hills theme which you can hear slightly during the Guiding Lands cutscene along with Old Jungle being Rathians which you hear a bit in the Pink Rathian cutscene for MHW. Diablos/Monoblos are linked to the Old Desert theme. Lagiacrus is linked to the Deserted Island. Barioth is linked to the Tundra theme. Flagships should definitely have their own theme and they mostly do apart from the OG ones it seems.
The answer is yes. It would be a lot harder on their musicians, but if Capcom could maintain every monster's associated theme moving forward, that would be pretty sick. They aren't going to, but it would be awesome if they did.
I was under the impression that most monsters had their own unique themes, but it turns out that's only because the ones that stick, really stick and often turn into direct associations with certain monsters. Like, the Great Jaggi's theme is apparently used for all the -ggi type monsters in 3U, but when I hear it, all I can think of are the Jaggis doing their frantic hopping that only happens when their leader is there. Same with the Deserted Island theme, which I only associate with Lagiacrus.
For some reason, only with Rise did I start to notice how many monsters actually use the "generic area theme". I thought Capcom cheaped out at first, because I didn't realize (because of the above) how many monsters don't *actually* have a theme even before Rise. I usually block out music during fights because my adrenaline runs high, so that also contributes to me being a bit illiterate when it comes to BGMs, I'd assume.
At the end of the day, because the BGM often becomes a blur to me, it probably wouldn't matter if they changed it, but at least on paper, I think it's a bit weird certain monsters get their own themes but others don't. Like, I'd assume all the flagships got their own because their battles are usually important in the story, but no, only some of them do. I'd prefer consistency. Aldo, I think it's a bit of a missed opportunity too. I played Bloodborne last year and that game's boss music kind of controls the rythm of the fight and thus has real personality.
But it is the case, all flagships do get their own themes, those that don’t are very much exceptions. Out of the 15 flagship monsters from the mainline series (or 19 if you count mizutsune, astalos, gammoth and bloodbath diablos) only 2 don’t have their own theme, rathalos and Lagiacrus, rathalos is understandable, he was the first one and there was basically no standard set at the time, in MH1 the only monsters that get their own themes are Lao Shan lung, kirin and fatalis, which are coincidentally the 3 elder dragons of the game. Lagiacrus is just weird tho, there’s really no explanation as to why they didn’t make the deserted islands theme his own exclusively and make another one for the area besides potential monetary constraints (it’s possible they were spread thin due to how much effort went into creating water combat)
For me it really depends on the monsters and how it would work going forward
Like, Rathalos Rathian Lagiacrus and maybe Barioth should have their own themes reflective of the main maps associated with them at this point, but in regards to a monster that's newer to the series (like Zamtrios and Goss Harag as my examples), should they get unique themes after their only map appearance of using a specific theme? Anjanath didn't get that treatment when it came back for Rise (there was no hint of Ancient Forest's music), so should a monster like Zamtrios get the Frozen Seaway music integrated into a specific theme for it?
I'd personally say that monsters unique to only one area like Frost Islands or Frozen Seaway should keep the generic area's theme since it makes sense (you're only fighting the monster there, so the music composed already can reflect them), and the same can be done with lower-tier monsters like Great Izuchi or Tetranodon, but when you get to higher threats that are fought in more than one place (Espinas, Rathalos, etc.), they get their own unique music
Capcom will probably have nods here and there going forward. Even though Anjanath first appears in the desert in Rise, there is a snippet of the Ancient Forest theme in the Rise Volcano map.
I took a photo of Anjanath with glowing eyes in the caves so I now associate that map with him 😅
I think Rathalos and Lagiacrus should have them on account of them being flagships. Wouldn't mind Rathian having one as well but those two are the only ones I think *need* a theme because it's unfair all the other flagships have them but not those two.
Rathalos theme from tri sounds extremely close to rite of spring by Stravinsky. Hadn't noticed it till now
So are we going to ignore Bloodbath Diablos?
Oh and that one time "The Crimson Horn" layed in an event that definitely didn't happened in Iceborne..?
Idk if it would be better to have every monster have a theme. On the one hand, it would add more personality and uniqueness to each monsters, so I get it. However there are several points that makes me like the fact that not all monsters have unique themes. First, a shared area theme links monsters from the same map together, which helps them feel like a part of their environment. Secondly, we can probably expect lesser quality themes as the number of themes grow, so keeping it exclusive might keep them better. Thirdly there are monsters you’ll hunt way less often than others, so having an area theme makes sure the track you’re listening to will be iconic and you will remember it. The unique themes are generally given in priority to important monsters or monsters you’re going to hunt a lot. I think this way of doing is efficient. Lastly, I like that most common monsters have the area theme, because when you encounter a monster and hear a new theme, you know it’s a serious threat. The fact that you hear different music is a narrative tool that sets apart the monster from the rest, which makes you tense and excited to take on the challenge. If every monster had their own theme, it would just be normal, and the music would lose its power as a tool to hype up specific monsters. Basically the more rare it is, the more of an impact it makes.
Super interesting, I can’t believe I didn’t know about rathians dedicated theme!
I wish more monsters had dedicated theme music. One of my biggest gripes with Rise is the lack of dedicated themes for the newcomers.
The Three Lords should have all get a theme
I think in my opinion, flagship monster should get their own battle theme so the flagship monster/s can be classified as a special monster for their return/new game
I like that they kept the Great Forest theme, so why not keep doing that?
Turn zone themes into dedicated monster themes for fan favorite monsters in following games. Like if they bring Odogaron back give him Rotten Vale for instance.
i think espinas having the great forest theme, means that if great forest map returns in the future it will have its new theme just like how sandy plains got a new one...
No?
I think that the way it is right now is good because it makes the more special monsters stand out. If every monster had its own theme people would not really pay attention anymore because it would be like ehh why should I? As it is right now however you have these select ones(mostly flagships, elders and invaders) that have their own theme and everytime it comes up you have this moment of realisation that you are hunting something unique and special.
Yes, there should be more unique battle themes, specifically for higher rank monsters. Almudron deserves a unique theme since he mostly shows up just all over the shop whilst being a very dedicated, engaged fight, but Goss, Rakna, Legiana, Lagiacrus, Barioth, Anjanath and Odogaron should have themes not wholly identical to in composition, but heavily inspired by, their main locales, so if their locales ever somehow show up in future games, those locales can have their battle themes whilst the aforementioned monsters have unique themes that play on the locale theme, elevate it, show you that they are the postcard monster for those themes.
I love the themes and they definitely break up the monotony of the battle themes.
But I've also just had weird experiences, where now, you have so many big, flagship monsters in each game, I'll be fighting Nargacuga and then Mizu will show up and its theme will take precedent and I dont really know why. like I'm curious to see the code that has the hierarchy of themes in it.
But what Im getting at is that it starts to feel like, a bit too gimmicky when each monster has its own theme and then suddenly I'm expected to thematically focus on the monster with the theme currently playing or something.
It worked well in older titles and in newer ones (but less often) because most of the monsters were kind of simple, but unique (because they were all new) and you would only have like 3 or 4 monsters with their own themes, clearly very loud and imposing designs and it worked all together. Deviljhos theme is like, iconic because of how out of place it is with most other themes and it makes sense it takes precedent, Jho commands the area.
But now you have so many flagships that feel like they take up half the roster so they're always fighting for your attention because they're all so visually and thematically loud, its kind of distracting, and the music is just a weird part of that for me.
(this was more a rant about flagships, but basically if every monster was treated like a flagship and had its own theme, this sort of thing would happen more)
I think one thing new gen has to deal with musically that old gen didn't is we generally have more monsters to a map now, and the few many-monster quests of the past were generally set in the arena with that theme play, even happening to date. Maybe the solution would be some weird multi-layered hybrid custom situational music system that just played select layers of themes and did some tempo and/or pitch shifting depending on what monsters were present and what was focused or most prevalent?
It's important to keep in mind when the theme first plays, in mhtri/3u the deserted island theme is first heard in the 1 star quest with lagiacrus, and then in the repel quest with lagiacrus. It's only after that that we actually hear it with a different monster specifically with Rathian. This isn't the case with anjanath, as it's also heard with pukei pukei and tobi-kadachi before we hear it from anjanath. Maybe you could here it if anjanath invaded your hunt, but it's not "forced" like with lagiacrus.
If you want a quick and easy answer to “why does Espinas get his own battle music, but Rathalos doesn’t?”, it is pretty simple.
Espinas is the first migration from Frontier, and more than likely not the last. As he is the patented good boy from the dead game, Capcom probably wanted him to really stand out to ensure his arrival made an impression to those who had never fought him, and to invoke nostalgia in those that did.
I think you’re too deep in the weeds, trying to invoke some greater meaning from theme song association.
As for: should every monster get their own theme? Yes but no. I’d love if every monster had their own jingle, but realistically I think it’s best they don’t, for development’s sake.
Making sure every monster has their own tune would take enormous resources and time, which means we’d have smaller rosters or longer dev time. Not to mention that inevitably some themes will inadvertently sound similar, leading to a degradation of theme uniqueness.
Don't the bears have their own theme still?
I do like the idea of similar monsters having like their own styles tbey kinda share (espectially if they came packaged together in like one game), flagships getting their own which most I Believe do post like MHDos, which is why id also say Espinas has it's own theme.
it came with a new map in terms of the jungle, it originated on another map in frontier, and it's also a flagship OF frontier, it's the perfect storm to have its own theme in Sunbreak
@@dilophoraptordouble The bears haven't had their theme since Tri.
If you're looking at 3U themes there's also themes for Barioth, Agnaktor, Gobul, and Lagi.
Espinas new theme is insanely satysfying to hear a moment I had with the improved AI was him charging at you like a bull like furious rajang and chasing me far down my path cause I wanted to run away the fact they can catch up to you while running at extreme speed with the music was perfect
I've always been under the impression that locale themes are inspired by certain monsters, but far from exclusive, like I never knew Jungle's theme was even inspired by congalala, jungle's theme could've easily been velocidrome's, bulldrome's, daimyo's, or kut-ku's theme just with a different title.
But also, I'm glad that some themes haven't come back, it allows old minor monsters to come back and actually let locale themes shine, something that makes older games worth going back to to experience. Imagine only being able to hear the shrine ruins theme while fighting G.Izuchi, Aknosom, and Tetronadon because all the other older monsters that show up there are playing their own themes over everything.
This also has a benefit of allowing old themes that you dislike a chance to die and never come back lol.
For Espinas specifically I can understand why an exception was made, its the first frontier monster since FU, a series that I felt has always been kinda swept under the rug by capcom, so to pay proper homage and respect to it, the series flagship also brought some music that I wouldn't be surprised being inspired by the espinas fight
i feel like either way, new soundtrack or old area theme remix, espinas was considered significant enough from several standpoints (first frontier monster in mainline, the difficulty of the battle, the strength of the monster within lore) that they wouldve given it a theme song anyway. it just seems like a happy coincidence that the great forest theme was erratic enough to suit a monster with a battle like espinas. i guess they just went "oh cool we dont have to compose a Whole New Song lets just remix this one"
i have a feeling when lagiacrus for example makes its return, it will also be considered significant enough from multiple standpoints, so that it will get either a remix of the deserted island theme or a new theme.
the problem is maintaining a balance between monsters with their own themes and those without, so that you actually get to hear the area themes, while also giving a greater sense of importance to Capital-I *Important* monsters, whether theyre old returning fan-favourites (regardless of whether they had their own theme before or not) or the shiny new flagship of the game
but maybe this whole discussion is silly and the reason espinas got its own theme is either a) nostalgia bait, b) someone on the team saying "hey i like the great forest theme is there a way to put it in our new game somehow" OR c) both of the previous answers (or something like it)
@@gamecavalier3230 they released in both frontier and freedom unite (i think it was freedom unite? im not 100% sure) around the same time so they dont really count, since they never really were frontier-exclusives to begin with
@@gamecavalier3230
They were meant to be shared since the beginning, the also both got designed by the main team.
And Frontier players complained because at that time they were only exclusive monsters in Frontier and they had to pay a subscription (and without unique monsters it was pretty much a scam)
@@gamecavalier3230 they were not intended to remain exclusive to begin with. also they arent THE frontier monster the same way espinas is considered by some... though i do think some people will be overjoyed if they announced hypnocatrice is coming back in a similar manner to the way they were for espinas' return
This reminds me how upset I was that Barioth didn't get a unique theme in Iceborne, yet his introduction cutscene clearly has a musical reference to the 3U tundra theme
If everyone is special with their own themes then no one is
If a Area has its own Team it helps building up Atmosphere and if you finaly encounter a Monster whit unique theme, it just flashes that Monster out extra.
something of note is that as far as I know in monster hunter 4 ultimate until G rank Zamtrios is the only monster in the frozen seaway that uses the map theme.
so technically until G rank with tidal najarala the frozen seaway theme is Zamtrios's theme
I think now that in 5th gen it's very common for monsters to cross paths and fight each other, limiting the amount of monsters that have special themes is actually a good thing. When I'm fighting a monster with the generic map theme and then suddenly a rajang or mizu shows up and the music changes it's fun, but having too many monsters together with unique themes can become a little jumbled as they keep starting and stopping every time a new monster enters the area
I like how only some monsters have their own theme, but I think *more* monsters deserve this treatment. Rathian, Rathalos, Diablos, and a bunch of other monsters deserve to have unique themes to match their unique status in the series.
I think Barioth and Gigginox (if it ever returns), should both get their own themes. They used to share the same song (Subzero White Knight), but what stands out to me about that song is the contrast between the organised, methodical sections and the more horror-like sections with a piano that almost sounds “mashed”. I think you could make these both into two separate songs that would fit either monster separately.
I think certain monsters do deserve there own themes but I do associate certain regular battle themes to regular monsters. For instance I associate Deserted Island battle theme (technically Lagicrus's theme) mainly to Lagicrus, and Rathain. In this instance I think its confusing but it works, maybe its because there's 15 monsters. I don't think tri had unique battle themes and yet I feel like they fit a good amount of the monsters when you fight them. The monsters that are deserving of unique themes are flagships, invaders and elders to me these are the most memorable monsters and what makes each mh title stand out, other than the aesthetic.
A bit late to the aprty here, but with sunbreak update 2 being released, I wanted to add something regarding how capcom should use tracks going forward. It's something I noticed in some very specific fights in world/iceborne as well but it struck me really hard with the new sunbreak update. I'm talking about the new Violet Mizutsune fight. It starts off with the arena music, the eerie theme of the infernal springs, but when you reach its first enhanced state, it transitions to Mizutsune's theme. This creates a brilliant effect where you know shit is about to happen, it raises the stakes in such a visceral way.
So yeah, I'd like most high threats monsters to have a similar treatment. Having the area's generic battle track as you start the encounter and have it transitioned to a monster specific theme at some point, depending on how the monster works.
What I would like for them to do is monsters like barioth who are associated with a area theme would use it as their theme if that area isn't in that game.
I totally agree with you hat the Roar/Verdant Hills music should just be used as Rathalo's theme. He's like the Pikachu of Monster Hunter so they should do that so he ins't too overshadowed by the other flagship monsters that keep beating him up in the cutscenes.
Lagiacrus without the Deserted Island Theme just wouldn't feel the same
Note that in basically all crossover content featuring Rathalos, any music associated with Rathalos Roar is his theme too. I always found it strange that he was never allowed to use it.
Even stranger, in Iceborne, the first phase of Fatalis is a remix of Roar (which apparently played in the original Fatalis fight but don’t count me on that). So is Roar Rathalos’ theme or not?
I feel like because of this treatment, when or if we get lagiacrus back, we might get a remix of the deserted island theme, seeing as how most people accosiate the two
People do the same with Ratholos and the verdant hills theme, but I don't see them closing that link
"I was a wimp before before recognition! now I'm an amazing addition and everybody loves me!"
Me, 2022
They stopped doing Fanged Beast and Bird Wyvern themes, which I think is a shame because those themes always stuck out to me
The Flooded forest thing is a reimagination of the original theme, just like Jungle or Any flagship of rise, the theme is named for Gobul in third gen, so its basically Its theme, but there IS no Gobul in 5th gen
I always thought that Kirin should have its own theme. It is an elder dragon after all.
My little Pony 🐎 title song
Yes and Orange Espinas is gonna get a remix of the Tower Theme and everyone will love it
I would love to see Odoggo come back with the Vale theme to accompany it tbh.
I think the general rule of thumb that Capcom uses to decide what theme a monster gets, is that in order for it to have its own 'unique' theme, it must be an apex of a certain map. If this is the case, it will (most often) adopt the theme of the locale that it is an apex of. Sure it's not consistent in terms of in-game music tracks, but as you've shown, monsters often DO get their unique music in cutscenes, even if it's merely in the form of a leitmotif. It would ofcourse be more interesting if these cutscene tracks carried over to the actual battle tracks, but doing so would probably be too costly for Capcom, like you suggested with a quick text in the video.
Espinas getting special treatment isn't the wildest thing really, seeing as it's the apex of the Great Forst, and its music in Sunbreak is a remix of that very track, again following the rule I proposed here. Overall I was pretty disappointed that Rise's new monsters didn't get their own tracks, but it makes sense, and I think the way they're handling it now is just fine.
They do sometimes play the monster's deserved themes in the hunting horn like in barroth's case which is pretty cool
I think every monster should indeed have their own theme. Every monster, even the entry gate newbie monsters, bring something to the table for the game and they all should be treated uniquely. At the very least though, Rathalos and Rathian should both have a theme unique to them since they've been in the franchise since day 1, and are the mascots of the game. I've always understood kinda like why some of the lesser monsters didn't have a theme, but never understood why Rathalos and Rathian were always using the generic themes for the areas.
In general I kinda wish they would give "special," monsters their own themes. If Yian-Garuga gets his own theme, certainly monsters like Garangolm or Lunagaron should have their own themes, they were heavily hyped up before Sunbreak dropped. It feels like most generations have at least one or two non-flagship/final boss monsters with their own themes; Deviljho, Rajang, Bazelgeuse to name a few.
Rathalos and Rathian should have one (perhaps shared), but I doubt Rathalos will ever get Forest and Hills theme for himself because Fatalis has essentially claimed it.
I would love to hear more themes for specific monsters, I loved seeing all the mosnster specific themes in iceborne. I understand why everyone doesn't get one though. My only question is why did only one of the main trio in sunbreak get a theme? Luna and golm needed more love I think
I think every flagship should have it's own theme (Raths should have either the Old Jungle or Verdant Hills theme, and Lagiacrus should have the Deserted Isle theme) After that, mostly depends on how impactful/formidable the monster is. Obviously elders should have their own themes (which most do, barring Kirin post MHDos) and end tier non-elders like Rajang, Garuga, and Deviljho as well. I'm surprised monsters like Goss Harag didn't get a theme in Rise, or Anjanath in World. Otherwise I think map themes are alright to have for the rest.
I think Espinas getting the HR version of the Great Froest theme makes sense since he's both a flagship and a very important icebreaker for Frontier monsters as a whole.
I mean espinas IS a special monster.
The first frontier monster in a mainline game, the first triple affliction monster too, and it is also unique in how it behaves (being sleepy all the time and then almost instantly enraging and taking more damage during enrage)
It deserves a little special treatment, its a cool monster!
forgetting about lavasioth and hypnocatrice xD
I would say yes, but it depends of the monster, I think bulldrome, Velocidrome, Yian Kut ku, Congalala, Lagombi, Barroth, Kecha Wacha don't need a battle theme, but I think stronger monsters like Blangonga, Gravios, Agnaktor or Odogarons should have a original battle theme, so I think every map should have a music when you fight minot threats, but it should be replaced when you fight a stronger monster.
it's probable ESPINAS main theme that just was use in the GREAT FOREST.
Espinas *is* a flagship of sorts, he's a flagship of the first new frontier monster in the mainline games in a long time, and a very popular one at that, unlike lavasioth
Personally I think the raths should get there theme tied to them but the biggest crime Lagiacrus theme not being tied to him properly but then again they do Lagiacrus dirty but the deserted Island theme should be tied to him properly
Also I've always felt that the Sunken hollow theme always belonged to Nerscyla and I hope they start properly typing themes to all these monsters
The real answer from Capcom is probably really more pragmatic than there is actual reason for why there aren't unique battle music for every monster. Lower tier monsters most definitely dont need a special theme, maybe its just the game director with the actual vision for monsters per game iteration who decides if they need the music director to make a new/special arrangement for certain monsters because they want to emphasize its difference with other monsters.
I personally agree rathalos and lagi should have its theme during their fights (Kirin as well) but rathain I'm not personally bothered by as me personally see the old jungle theme as less a song about rathain and more of a representation of the 1st couple MH games. I also do agree we don't need to go overboard and give every monster associated with a theme said theme especially since the new maps still need to have time in the sun and giving maps their theme that you hear regularly enough helps with that massively with one example for me being rises lava caverns.
Kulu Ya Ku theme slaps btw but I don't understand how the hell they gave him one. It's so random for a Bird Wyvern lmao Probably some nonsense from the Ancient Forests full album but eh
In my opinion, invader monsters should be the only ones to get their own themes, as they are the only ones to cause actual trouble in hunts, except in Rise where tragically all normal invaders are nerfed to oblivion as they are practically free mounts.
I think it'd be cool if each monster had a theme... HOWEVER
1) Composing, arranging, performing, and producing a unique and distinct theme for each monster is a LOT of time and budget. It's *possible*, sure, but I don't think it's plausible unless you want to wait an additional several years for each MH game.
2) Each *monster fight* at times isn't even that distinct! Do you really want a unique theme for Great Izuchi, Great Baggi, Great Jaggi, Great Jagras, and Royal Ludroth? I feel like for economy of time and money, the threshold of only some monsters getting their own theme exists for a practical reason. Some don't... really need one. Which ones do is something that's highly subjective, and usually dependent on who fan faves are, and/or if the monster plays a significant role in the game (eg. flagships)
3) I dunno if 'Nostalgia Bait' is excessively uncharitable, as it gives an impression of dishonesty or underhandedness. I think if fans really really enjoyed a theme for one monster, but that monster doesn't play a particularly prominent role in a future title, it seems reasonable to me to attach that general battle theme to a map. That way, people who enjoyed it, get to hear it more often. Also, new fans aren't going to notice or care, and just go, "Hey this theme slaps!" As someone who came to the series with Worldborne and has continued through RiseBreak, that was my impression. I was just excited to have such great music around me all the time.
Well, the way it works is fine. That each area theme is assigned a monster. Espinas gets it becuase it was still kinda his theme, and I guess they do want to hype him up more.
I think that Roar, specifically for Rathalos, should come back every game for them. Rathalos is still presented as a pretty powerful threat even in the newer titles (High Rank and MR Rathalos had a great rework in Rise/Sunbreak), and it's definitely an amazing nastolgia piece for the monster that was the first flagship.
What really separates something like Nargacuga, Zinogre, etc from Rathalos in terms of power or legacy befitting a theme?
Why doesn't the old Fanged Beast theme come back when they have all 3 in a game as well?
This is just something I'm trying to remember from high school band class, but I get the impression that some alterations of older themes like Crimson Horn or even smaller changes through Leitmotifs are put in intentionally to convey a progression in the evolution of the series. You thought fighting a one horned demon was already expressive? Check out the size of it's cousin and how pissed it can get if you try to tame it like a bull. It also doesn't corner composers in these unique circumstances where there are so many iconic monsters that your trying to make stand out from one another. Some are going to be jobbers like most of the pack mammals who can sit rightfully within the confines of their environment theme. Some are too important not to get significant thought about how they will be perceived through sound - especially when it's something that a great deal of Japanese fans might know but everyone else doesn't in the case of Espinas. Plus you wouldn't really have the impact that the greats have if it was even possible to create distinct and amazing themes for all the monsters, they would all just gel together and not stick to our memory. Or even worse we would get bored of listening to battle music entirely because it could be perceived as one similar, repetitive track. These type of game loops make designing the tracks very difficult.
The only ones that need themes are the Flagships, Flagship-Adjacents (like the other members of the Fated Four), Elders, and the F-U Crew (Jho, Jang ,Geuse and Garuga)
Dude it's a freaking flagship ??? it's exactly like saying "why magnamalo has his own theme" ???? and saying the ost depended on the map in frontier is completely false, it's not because you saw ONE quest like that that it's always the case.
Complete side tangent, but I find it interesting and cool that the elements of Rathalos’ theme are also apparent in Iceborne’s Fatalis theme. Just wanted to put that out there
Thats also the case in his old theme, because Fatalis theme is a remix of the forest and hills battle theme.
Savage of the Ancient Forest should have been Anjanath's theme
Not every monster should have dedicated music but it's nice to have exceptions...
Just like the forest theme could be associated with espinas in the future, i think it could be the same for lagiacrus and the theme that plays in the deserted island (whenever he comes back 😢)
The area themes have always set a certain tone and atmosphere to the map, I don't think at all they're deserving of neglect just because they have a tendency of being titled after a specific monster. Whether the Rath wyverns should have their own themes is another debate on its own, they're iconic to the series, but typically also "average" monsters within the game and also world, I think it'd be okay for either outcome for them. I think Espinas was considered more of a special occasion.
I would love to live in a world where all monsters get their own themes, but I understand that that’s not very necessary in the long run. Still, I would like to see at least the Raths and Lagiacrus get their own themes. The Raths especially, seeing as they are the flagships of the whole series. Still, as long as the music is good, I’m fine with pretty much anything.
I do believe that every monster that has a theme that they are associated with (Barioth, Rathalos, Monoblos etc.) shouöd get to keep that Theme for themselves if they reapear in newer games...
that's like Metal Sonic's theme is Stardust Speedway Bad Future
Also Fatalis is all "Rathalos theme and some Kokoto village and boom I have a theme now!"
Rathalos "Dafuq?! Not cool i'm the Pikachu of Monster Hunter!"
I'd like if it was as you say, the monster with associated themes should get to keep that theme, usually map themes are associated with the strongest non-flagship monster, it always has been like this and I would like it if it stayed that way.
Something that I didn't see you mention, maybe because they haven't done it in a while, is that starter monster groups were given themes, like the Greats, the Fanged Beast Trio, the Dromes in Generations I think, and maybe the Ya-Kus if I remember correctly. Also, could you please tell me what version or cover of the Pokke theme you used in your Outro?
Rise's original themes actually aren't attributed to its original monsters at all. The only original monsters that get themes (in base Rise) are Magnamalo and the Storm Serpents (Ibushi, Narwa). The Apex monsters all get a shared theme, though that's only when you fight them in the Rampage- and they're all powered-up versions of returning monsters, anyways.
In Sunbreak, this is even worse. There's only four brand new large monsters, and two of them have unique themes (one being a final boss).
The Three Lords honestly feel like a shoehorned idea. Lunagaron and Garangolm don't even get to have maps of their own to lord over, just sections of the same map- so it makes sense why they have to share a theme, essentially.
Interesting thing to note; the Afflicted monsters technically do have a "theme", but it's actually a sting that plays every time you initiate battle with them- before going into the locale theme or the monster's own theme (if it's a flagship).
Rathalos and Rathian should get a theme, along with Diablos+Monoblos, but everyone else should keep the default. That way we could have new themes to go with other monsters, like ancient forest/anjanath, rotten vale/odogaron, coral highlands/legiana. However, one problem abt monster themes is that they start to clash. I dislike when Tigrex enters the area in rise, as it basically steals the show from most monsters.
Ye they should. In the past the most monsters got a track that served the character of the monster well. The espinas track is sick ,love it and gives me a hectically feeling in the fight wich I really enjoy with the fast paced Combat.
There are currently two wolves inside me: There should NOT be music for every individual monster, because it takes away from the aesthetic that monster hunter already has. Lagombi, for me, doesn't invoke the sense of "Why am I hearing boss music?" Like a classical medieval dragon that shoots pillars of fire and is stated to be the literal embodiment of fury towards monster hunters like Fatalis. If Khezu had a theme for example, it would take away from that fight's creepiness, since having no music during the battle means you HAVE to listen to every single uncomfortable noise Khezu makes. Sometimes the music that comes from the specific map has enough merit to invoke a sense of when it's battle time.
The other says every monster should have unique battle music, because I like monster hunter music and want more of it.
I thought out of everything the three lords deserved their own music. Luna and Garangolm were meant to be such big story points its kinda sad.
The HR5 Great Forest theme was dedicated to Espinas when it was made which is probs why the Sunbreak devs included it as the theme for Espinas, if we see something like Akura or Berukyurosu, we can expect to see remixes of the HR5 Desert theme for the former and the HR5 Gorge theme for the latter.
yea, same opinion. not everyone needs their own song, but many monsters deserve one.
I’ve complained and wined about rathalos not having his battle theme since I began monster hunter world or at least since I first heard the music
I think it's better if only flagships get an unique theme, you can make remixes of forest and hills for rathalos and desert island for lagiacrus, that way you could also integrate the maps with a more classic version of the themes
Something you forgot to mention is that most of the monsters that have themes are ether flagships, invading monsters, or Elder Dragons/Last bosses. You're right that it's strange that they don't use specific themes for Rathalos and Rathian, but imo only Rathalos would make sense given these rules. Rathian was never a flagship monster!
That said, that's exactly WHY they gave Espinas a unique battle theme--he's the flagship monster of Frontier (or at least, whatever version it was he came out in). It makes sense then that they would use the most well-known/catchy song associated with him.
As for Rathalos, I feel like the choice to not use its theme is because it is also used for Fatalis (arranged, of course), and they likely want to save that impact for Fatalis. That and, I feel like Rathalos having a new theme in every game is sort of... fun? Or most, anyway. You come to associate the Lagiacrus theme with it since its fought on that map a lot in Tri, World it's the Forest Map's battle theme where he's the Apex monster there, Rise it's the Volcano theme.
All other monsters that get themes that persist across different games are invading monsters (Yian Garuga, Rajang, Deviljho, Bazelgeuse, etc), Elder Dragons, or final bosses (also usually Elder Dragons). Obviously some variants of existing flagships/elder dragons get their own themes/arranges but those fall into the same rules.
This is why monsters like Barioth, Great Jaggi, etc have named themes clearly referencing them, but they do not persist across the games. They are technically just the battle themes for those maps, and since those monsters are not flagships, they are deemed not important enough to have themes. Even variants that seem deserving don't (Frostfang Barioth, Violet Mizutsune, etc). In some cases, I think it's a big shame, but it's very consistent.
On a final note, examples like Monoblos + Diablos, those two monsters are clearly related, so it's not that strange for Diablos to use music associated with Monoblos. I do think that a lot of the monster intros do just use songs that will draw on nostalgia VS them necessarily being the monster's strict theme.
From a design standpoint we need general map themes for things like small monster engagements or transitions/chase themes but it is weird they haven't associated particular themes with some monsters. They even gave Fatalis this Rathalos theme in it's music but since Iceborne everyone calls that the "Fatalis theme" despite him having like 4 different variations. It's inconsistent.
> "off the cuff"
> is a thoroughly researched video
Oh I want all monsters to have unique themes especially since so many area themes are monster themes especially everything from 3rd gen
I would love the monsters that do have themes or are heavily connected should always have their themes alongside them, Lagiacrus and Deserted Island theme are both known as the same theme for each, what also gives the strong connection to it being specifically Lagiacrus as well is that they name it in the Live Orchestra as Lagiacrus's theme, not Deserted Island, even though in those games that's the map's theme and when Lagi is in Flooded Forest, they don't play his theme
I never played Frontier. but i agree some more unique themes would be a great addition
Espinas is literally the flagship of frontier of course he’s gonna get special treatment
Absolutely think Rathalos is overdue to have the forest & hills battle theme accompany him and no I don't think every monster needs a theme.
In Monster Hunter Online Espinas and other Frontier monsters has a awesome unique themes.
I think the statement near the end is very much an overgeneralized statement, "I guess the point I'm making is that, ultimately, it doesn't matter and I don't think Capcom actually cares. Espinas got special treatment because it's a beloved Frontier monster and they want to nostalgia bait fans of Frontier."
You have to ignore practically everything about Espinas and what its inclusion in Sunbreak represents and means for the future of the series to get to that statement.
this is strangely enough the treatment Rathalos has on certain aspects: Rathalos Feroce, the HH, plays a bit of the Verdant Hills theme, I'm sure Rathalos is usually represented outside in crossovers with that track too, despite also lacking a theme, and by now Capcom settled on that in stone.
it isnt just the standard great forest battle music that got a remix. its actually the HR5~/Goushu rank great forest battle theme that espinas uses a remix of in rise