So you are replacing a cold air snorkel with K&N 'sticks and stones' filter that will suck hot, less dense air from the engine bay and lose power. BRILLIANT!. Oh by the way, the stock air filter and cold air snorkel has a higher CFM rating than the head can absorb..Sooo you are achieving nothing. Plus the centre resonator is what gives the 944 its nice burble. The throttle cam is the only thing you did that makes sense. Try a DME chip which will have much more effect without too much messing around. Removing the resonator will give you a headache on long trips. Guaranteed.,
Thanks for backing us up on the snorkel! Really appreciate when people can confirm our thinking, even if it's not the best option. If you'd watched after the first 30 seconds where we listed what we're doing, you'd have heard us talk about why it's NOT all good, and IS largely superficial, with a snorkel providing better cool air sourcing. This puts you in the 41% of people who don't get beyond 30 seconds on this video, I'd recommend watching the rest though. Without watching it back myself and falling foul of YoutTubes 'artifical view boosting transgression', I'm fairly sure I said the plan was also to build a baffle to close this off from the engine bay to address it, while retaining the K&N induction noise. Although the car was sold by James this year and the air box went back on for the sale so this was never built and it does look rather like we just left a sub-optimal solution in place. I didn't know about the CFM of the head being exceeded by the snorkel, though that does suggest a 'no harm no foul' as there's enough headroom for a flow drop without affecting performance from the filter though. Again, thanks for helping to justify the choice by ruling out that as a worry! The 944 isn't, by a WIDE margin the loudest car to sit in on the drive (in fact the 944 has never lived on our drive). The Golf is by far a more rattle-y, booming interior space given it's completely stripped despite actually being quite reasonable when driving around town and doesn't have a deliberately loud exhaust, or a map filled with 'pops and bangs'. It does however sound great above 4k rpm on track and from there it pulls like a train, so it's allowed to stay. That car has well over a dozen 10 hour motorway trips under it's belt and isn't utterly horrific to be inside, nor a source of headaches for anyone i've had in the car at the time. Perhaps you're oversensitive to the resonance? (or people doing what they want with their cars) or wanted to ensure you were the smartest person in the comments by knowing 'more' than us :) I'll pin this to let others know that they're not the first one saying this (you're in fact the second) quite so smugly point this out, though they opted to delete their comment and my reply regarding the benefit of the interaction vs the dislike i'm sure you gave (there are two, and there was only one when the last comment was made!). But really, just clicking one or other, AND commenting does a huge amount to boost what is already our most watched video. I look forward to seeing more of your car and sharing your expansive knowledge with people of the community, thanks again for watching (if only briefly!)
Apologies for the delay, hadn't seen your comment notification while I was away! I quite agree the heat soak of the bay might drop the power, unfortunately we never got the chance to build the bay shield on the framework holding the filter/etc in place as the car was sold (with the stock box back on) and obviously didn't manage to get it back to the dyno a second time to compare afterwards. It did one dyno day but held it back for a follow up which didn't happen (availability/etc) and then as I say, it was sold. Shame as it's a bit inconclusive if the air shield mitigation would have worked.
Throttle response on a 2.5l is very dependent on muffler design; some back pressure is required. Closer to oem is usually better unless you also change the DME. JP Dansk is a close to oem decision for 16v and Ansa makes a nice unit for 8V and turbos (which are also 8v) the 1447.
This is one hundred percent true. When I got my 944 na, the previous owner put a terrible after market exhaust on it. He sold the car with the original exhaust. I resealed and put the original back on. Not only did it run better, It smelled better too. The other exhaust was junk and must have had leaks.
@@Ryvful Yes there's always some blow-by and much rotational mass air displacement. PCV valve best connected to vacuum as rotational things work best in vacuum. Capping yours off is now positive pressure. Uncapping would allow positive pressure to escape but obv still not as good as actual vacuum. Venting to atmosphere also stinks with oil fumes, one of main reasons is good to feed back to negative intake pressure. Back to inlet FTW. Or if you turbo, suction side of turbo so as not to very much positively pressurise crankcase. 😎
I drove my Volkswagen Rabbit ( USA) with header only after installing a header on my 1979 rabbit as a kid. And that is how I found out that you can lose a crap ton of horsepower by deleting back pressure
By putting the cone type filter on the MAF, you are losing the original factory cold air inlet that used cold air coming from a high pressure area from the front wheel well. I put a low restriction K & N reusable filter in the factory box. Hot air kills hp !
Just came across your RUclips video on fitting a exhaust to your 944 ,,, it’s sound bloody brilliant and is exactly what I’m looking for ,, do you remember where you got it from ?? Love the video btw !!!
I don’t think there was any improvement on the intake side.... those hot air intakes actually lower horsepower.... engine temps in the engine bay can exceed 200°f last thing you want is to be sucking in that hot air
Good video, nice exhaust but why get rid of the factory cold air intake for a K&N warm air intake? Not to mention the likeliness of the air filter oil coating the MAF sensor and creating power & efficiency issues... wouldn't it make more sense to buy a high flow filter that fits the stock air box?
no really _good_ reason in fairness, a high flow would have been fine, had we had time I planned to make a divider to keep the hot air at bay, but we ran out of time/material to do it. Even the support bracket went unpainted and had to be done when it came back.
Absolutley. It's nothing crazy, but it's a much, much nicer noise. I went out this afternoon and it's quite addictive at 4-5k, makes 2nd and 3rd really nice to accelerate up through.
Brill video thank you! I’ve recently purchased a 924s and it already has this K&N filter on it. I was watching to see if it should be having an air intake pipe running to it like the OEM appeared to but assume not required then?
You'll get some hot air drawn in from around the engine but unlikely to kill much power, take the chance to bend up a nice bit of ally sheet and make a divider :)
You could also buy 90' degree silicone bend and some 75mm pipe and locate filter down at backend, first i though i route it to pumper/fender area where oem intake is located whit two 45' silicone bends but theres not much space unless i relocate horns. It gets bretty warm in engine bay after driving a while.
We got it like that, in fact the sills weren't black either, was all the blue colour. Underneath you can see the old colour, a kind of champagne gold affair, does need some love to the paint though, maybe a driveway redo one day
Great work! Planning to do this in the next couple of weeks. Any advice on cutting the exhaust while being under the car? I guess it can get quite sparky there...
I'm contractually required to say "safety goggles" as James (who owns this car) is in the Safety Engineering game :) But for cutting, release the exhaust from the hangers as much as possible, prop both sides up the pipe up so it can't just drop. Cut from the bottom, then creep up each side individually, rather than doing the whole thing in one slice. You'll probably not get 100% through with the disc, but you can get close enough that a hacksaw blade or just flexing the last little bit which will break it off (we did it that way) and then clean up the end. Hope it goes well! Let us know :)
I've been thinking about ways to dam the filter from the car and the floor, but still try and keep it free flowing with a nice ally shield. With lockdown I haven't seen the car since we did this so haven't been able to measure anything. Bit frustrating
Fortunately Ryvita beat me to it as I had no idea for the links! :) The air filter bracket is fairly simple at least. Tag us in a picture on instagram/facebook when you get it all done!
@@wo9656 We'll see once it's got some more trackdays under it's belt. TBH, it's about 50/50 keeping up with repairs and fixes / making upgrades at the moment, any power increases would only come after the clutch has been done. I have a set of EBC grooved and dimpled front discs, plus Yellow Stuff pads, ready as the next thing to go on.
It's the age old problem, "Ooo, I'll save up for that upgrade" Something else breaks "Cool, now I can save-" Another breakage. eventually the first thing you fixed, breaks again. #JustOldCarThings Feels good getting ahead of the curve though
So you are replacing a cold air snorkel with K&N 'sticks and stones' filter that will suck hot, less dense air from the engine bay and lose power. BRILLIANT!. Oh by the way, the stock air filter and cold air snorkel has a higher CFM rating than the head can absorb..Sooo you are achieving nothing. Plus the centre resonator is what gives the 944 its nice burble. The throttle cam is the only thing you did that makes sense. Try a DME chip which will have much more effect without too much messing around. Removing the resonator will give you a headache on long trips. Guaranteed.,
Thanks for backing us up on the snorkel! Really appreciate when people can confirm our thinking, even if it's not the best option.
If you'd watched after the first 30 seconds where we listed what we're doing, you'd have heard us talk about why it's NOT all good, and IS largely superficial, with a snorkel providing better cool air sourcing. This puts you in the 41% of people who don't get beyond 30 seconds on this video, I'd recommend watching the rest though.
Without watching it back myself and falling foul of YoutTubes 'artifical view boosting transgression', I'm fairly sure I said the plan was also to build a baffle to close this off from the engine bay to address it, while retaining the K&N induction noise. Although the car was sold by James this year and the air box went back on for the sale so this was never built and it does look rather like we just left a sub-optimal solution in place.
I didn't know about the CFM of the head being exceeded by the snorkel, though that does suggest a 'no harm no foul' as there's enough headroom for a flow drop without affecting performance from the filter though. Again, thanks for helping to justify the choice by ruling out that as a worry!
The 944 isn't, by a WIDE margin the loudest car to sit in on the drive (in fact the 944 has never lived on our drive). The Golf is by far a more rattle-y, booming interior space given it's completely stripped despite actually being quite reasonable when driving around town and doesn't have a deliberately loud exhaust, or a map filled with 'pops and bangs'. It does however sound great above 4k rpm on track and from there it pulls like a train, so it's allowed to stay. That car has well over a dozen 10 hour motorway trips under it's belt and isn't utterly horrific to be inside, nor a source of headaches for anyone i've had in the car at the time. Perhaps you're oversensitive to the resonance? (or people doing what they want with their cars) or wanted to ensure you were the smartest person in the comments by knowing 'more' than us :)
I'll pin this to let others know that they're not the first one saying this (you're in fact the second) quite so smugly point this out, though they opted to delete their comment and my reply regarding the benefit of the interaction vs the dislike i'm sure you gave (there are two, and there was only one when the last comment was made!). But really, just clicking one or other, AND commenting does a huge amount to boost what is already our most watched video.
I look forward to seeing more of your car and sharing your expansive knowledge with people of the community, thanks again for watching (if only briefly!)
Safety never takes a holiday.
7:51 and a visit from your Australian cousin!
G'day from Brucie's Bar & Grill!
... Ever vigilant.
IDK. I read that someone dynoed a Nine Forty-Four with both K&N and stock cold air box and got more power with the stock set up.
Apologies for the delay, hadn't seen your comment notification while I was away! I quite agree the heat soak of the bay might drop the power, unfortunately we never got the chance to build the bay shield on the framework holding the filter/etc in place as the car was sold (with the stock box back on) and obviously didn't manage to get it back to the dyno a second time to compare afterwards. It did one dyno day but held it back for a follow up which didn't happen (availability/etc) and then as I say, it was sold.
Shame as it's a bit inconclusive if the air shield mitigation would have worked.
Throttle response on a 2.5l is very dependent on muffler design; some back pressure is required. Closer to oem is usually better unless you also change the DME. JP Dansk is a close to oem decision for 16v and Ansa makes a nice unit for 8V and turbos (which are also 8v) the 1447.
Interesting, didn't know that
This is one hundred percent true. When I got my 944 na, the previous owner put a terrible after market exhaust on it. He sold the car with the original exhaust. I resealed and put the original back on. Not only did it run better, It smelled better too. The other exhaust was junk and must have had leaks.
That shot upside down under the car was ace.
Thanks, All James' idea, I was already too upside down to think :)
Ade(?), that’s a Vane Air Meter. They pretty much were BOSCH’s idea of what it took to calculate airflow for the antiquated ECM.
Ahh , cool! Good to know :)
That was a very od camera angle when you were under the car 🤣🤣
It was! Editing it was... confusing to look at :)
My fault. :)
Loved the header only sounds 😁👌
p.s. - positive crankcase pressure ftw? 😳
@@GTFour how are you diagnosing that and what are the implications here? Passing pistons? :(
At some point it needs a catch-can Or maybe ANOTHER K&N! :D
@@Ryvful Yes there's always some blow-by and much rotational mass air displacement. PCV valve best connected to vacuum as rotational things work best in vacuum. Capping yours off is now positive pressure. Uncapping would allow positive pressure to escape but obv still not as good as actual vacuum. Venting to atmosphere also stinks with oil fumes, one of main reasons is good to feed back to negative intake pressure. Back to inlet FTW. Or if you turbo, suction side of turbo so as not to very much positively pressurise crankcase. 😎
I drove my Volkswagen Rabbit ( USA) with header only after installing a header on my 1979 rabbit as a kid. And that is how I found out that you can lose a crap ton of horsepower by deleting back pressure
Spider Ade, Spider Ade, does whatever a Spider Ade does...
Unsafe things, apparently! that and injure myself...
That sounds just like k&n, to create a kit with missing brackets.
Typical isn't it!
By putting the cone type filter on the MAF, you are losing the original factory cold air inlet that used cold air coming from a high pressure area from the front wheel well.
I put a low restriction K & N reusable filter in the factory box. Hot air kills hp !
You're not wrong! And we did mention that near the start (I think?) But this does give the opportunity to do more fabrication of a divider later on :)
@@PedalBox thanks, you'll need to fabricate a plenum to pick up cold air to the side of the radiator
@@christopherkast8045 Yeah, should be a fun one to get the cardboard around and start folding!
That exhaust sounds wicked
Doesn't it! Really pleased with how it came out
Sounds good...
Yeah, I was really pleased. And after the hounding for video from James, I know he is too :)
@@PedalBox *MUST* *HEAR* *GOOD* *NOISES* :D
Just came across your RUclips video on fitting a exhaust to your 944 ,,, it’s sound bloody brilliant and is exactly what I’m looking for ,, do you remember where you got it from ??
Love the video btw !!!
Design911 we *think* is the right place.
i wonder about any power improvement of this change only.... ???
Sound improved for sure, power unsure for now, need to get back to the dyno with it!
I don’t think there was any improvement on the intake side.... those hot air intakes actually lower horsepower.... engine temps in the engine bay can exceed 200°f last thing you want is to be sucking in that hot air
Good video, nice exhaust but why get rid of the factory cold air intake for a K&N warm air intake? Not to mention the likeliness of the air filter oil coating the MAF sensor and creating power & efficiency issues... wouldn't it make more sense to buy a high flow filter that fits the stock air box?
no really _good_ reason in fairness, a high flow would have been fine, had we had time I planned to make a divider to keep the hot air at bay, but we ran out of time/material to do it. Even the support bracket went unpainted and had to be done when it came back.
"Say when..." NEVER, we're going out! Floor it!
Yeah... I was reversing towards that picnic table which was still behind the car, and towards the camera... :D
Get it right, reversing towards /your/ picnic table which is now the workbench and set :P (And the camera)
Having heard this car in person before the upgrade, I'm keen to see the difference. Will it be at LAN next?
Absolutley. It's nothing crazy, but it's a much, much nicer noise. I went out this afternoon and it's quite addictive at 4-5k, makes 2nd and 3rd really nice to accelerate up through.
The question really is, will LAN-next even exist in the next part of the year!
LAN... theres an event i've not heard of in a long time... /ObiWan.
(It does sound so good though on a drive by)
Brill video thank you! I’ve recently purchased a 924s and it already has this K&N filter on it. I was watching to see if it should be having an air intake pipe running to it like the OEM appeared to but assume not required then?
You'll get some hot air drawn in from around the engine but unlikely to kill much power, take the chance to bend up a nice bit of ally sheet and make a divider :)
You could also buy 90' degree silicone bend and some 75mm pipe and locate filter down at backend, first i though i route it to pumper/fender area where oem intake is located whit two 45' silicone bends but theres not much space unless i relocate horns. It gets bretty warm in engine bay after driving a while.
Turn the exhaust clamp 90 deg. Save the threads on speed bumps. Also down like this would be iva fail on a kit.
Yeah we spun it round to tighten it up to stop the scraping, good point though!
Did you guys have the 944 painted or did you find it with that scheme, I love it!
We got it like that, in fact the sills weren't black either, was all the blue colour. Underneath you can see the old colour, a kind of champagne gold affair, does need some love to the paint though, maybe a driveway redo one day
I'd love that paint scheme on my '83, sans the big Gulf stickers.
Great work! Planning to do this in the next couple of weeks.
Any advice on cutting the exhaust while being under the car? I guess it can get quite sparky there...
I'm contractually required to say "safety goggles" as James (who owns this car) is in the Safety Engineering game :)
But for cutting, release the exhaust from the hangers as much as possible, prop both sides up the pipe up so it can't just drop. Cut from the bottom, then creep up each side individually, rather than doing the whole thing in one slice. You'll probably not get 100% through with the disc, but you can get close enough that a hacksaw blade or just flexing the last little bit which will break it off (we did it that way) and then clean up the end.
Hope it goes well! Let us know :)
Thats sounds great where did you get the could air adapter plate for the air filter.
I want to say Design911. But i'm not sure, It was James who actually bought all the parts
What about that old hose at 1:43. Did you have to cap it off or add a mini filter?
Capped off, apologies for the delay! Thats the 'Porsche approved' method which is surprising.
catch 22 that can suck up water if hit water hydrolock
I've been thinking about ways to dam the filter from the car and the floor, but still try and keep it free flowing with a nice ally shield. With lockdown I haven't seen the car since we did this so haven't been able to measure anything. Bit frustrating
Do you also say nine one one?
Weirdly, no lol. Nine Eleven. But versions are nine nine six/seven/one. same as nine nine four or nine two four.
Can you post the links for everything in the discription? I want to have the air filter too 🥺
Intake stuff:
Filter - www.knfilters.co.uk/rx-4730-universal-x-stream-clamp-on-air-filter
Connector plate - www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mass-Air-Flow-Sensor-Intake-Adapter-Plate-For-83-91-Porsche-944-944S-2-5L-H4/332829666270?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Hose connector blank - www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silicone-End-Blanking-Caps-Finishing-Bungs-Silicon-Pipe/223657232031?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=522382226472&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Exhaust
www.design911shop.com/Porsche-924-Rear-Box-Dansk-92440S--94411108301/prod1663/
www.design911shop.com/Porsche-944-Exhaust-Pre-Silencer-Dansk-92445S/prod5563/
www.design911shop.com/Exhaust-Muffler-O-Ring-Porsche-924S---944_2/prod134843/
www.design911shop.com/Exhaust-Rubber-Mounting-Porsche-924S---944-94411114202-94411114203/prod10367/
www.design911shop.com/Exhaust-Rubber-Mounting-Porsche-924S---944-94411114202-94411114203/prod10367/
Throttle wheel
www.porscheshop.co.uk/porsche-performance-parts/porsche-944-performance-parts-1982-to-1992/porsche-944-engine-induction-1982-to-1992/porsche-944-throttle-response-cam-924s-8-valve-82-89-non-turbo-2-5-2-7-race.html
Fortunately Ryvita beat me to it as I had no idea for the links! :)
The air filter bracket is fairly simple at least. Tag us in a picture on instagram/facebook when you get it all done!
Headers, cams and a port polish next?
Suspension and brakes are higher priority. This car is never going to be fast. :)
@@Ryvful OK, so after suspension and brakes then? ;)
@@wo9656 We'll see once it's got some more trackdays under it's belt. TBH, it's about 50/50 keeping up with repairs and fixes / making upgrades at the moment, any power increases would only come after the clutch has been done. I have a set of EBC grooved and dimpled front discs, plus Yellow Stuff pads, ready as the next thing to go on.
It's the age old problem, "Ooo, I'll save up for that upgrade" Something else breaks "Cool, now I can save-" Another breakage. eventually the first thing you fixed, breaks again. #JustOldCarThings
Feels good getting ahead of the curve though
*TURBO*
Would this work on a porshe 924 2.0 l ?
The linear throttle wheel should if the throttle body is the same on the 2.0. Same for the air box swap I believe
Manufacturer of the exhaust?
This one is Dansk
Works well with stock DMEs
where did you buy those exact parts?
I think those came from Design911