Personal take: Flaming attacks should deal damage to your healing cap. For example, if a Flaming attack deals 30 damage, it does 30 damage, plus an additional 30 towards your healing cap.
I feel like the full surround is a terrible idea here since it maximizes the units feeding and getting hit by the mortis. Would be really interested to see how a more elite Slaanesh build with skirmishers would do. Nevertheless, it's definitely a scary build that the chaos factions will have to account for. Good find!
If you DON'T full surround you have no chance at bursting them down or breaking through, meaning max. value from their healing. So if you throw everything at them, you die to double mortis engine. You don't throw everything at them, they will never die. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
I took one look at the thumbnail and immediately clicked on the video to see what I was assuming to be pure unadulterated filth. I was not disappointed.
Hm. I'm struggling to think of a way for an all-melee faction to deal with this that doesn't leave them hellishly vulnerable to a player who took a normal army.
Well first of all you dont stack all your units like this so they all get hit by maximum damage AoE spells, and maximum number of drain from the mortis engine. Secondly small single enteties like sigvald and 2 heroes won't care about chosen with halbards or mortis so thats 4k that won't care about his army at all.
The added 2 items for Cathay; “Catalytic Kiln” and “Kite of the Uppermost Aeries” and 1 for Kislev that that also give a DoT effect without being in melee.
This build would also be illegal in tourney. If you could try to get CA to update their unit caps to reflect more closely the tournament rules that would be cool for the LB community.
I have to make note that those pit of shades were quite miss placed, on SEM and not on the infantry. Same goes for the all in rush in, that's not how you should fight this, so many units don't attack if that way. You have to attack heavily but not stack so much stuff that half of it doesn't even fight properly...
For Slaanesh, maybe heavy chariot focus? Just scythe through the infantry without committing to an engagement until the infantry is mostly gone, then pile in on the single entities. For Khorne, I think the gameplan is Skull Cannons and Skarbrand. Skarbrand is there to rampage things out of the box, send in some sacrificial spawn or something to make sure the rest of the box doesn't follow. Skull Cannons will chip away at the heal cap and can regenerate ammo by mopping up any infantry that get pulled out of the box.
I don't really understand why they brought back no-melee mortis engine effects when they already changed that back in WH1 due to it being way too broken
because they're scaling the power of everything up in WH 3, including in-direct methods in non-pvp; more ways to attain multi-faction armies, better control of AI allies. I'm fairly sure CA are aware of the thin line they're treading and the inevitable moment when some things will still prove to be busted.
Fun fact, the shrines power up from entity deaths not enemy deaths. This may not seem important but this means using summons of any kind and letting them expire boosts the shrine.
If you play Khorne, you want to have skull cannons. I can't see how NOT having them along is a real option. Or marauders with throwing axes, I guess those work too.
It will work against ranged. Stack them on each other in a forest, trees will literally block everything. pop healing mode until they run out of ammo. Chosen of nurgle with shields works best for this they literally take no damage from missiles. Pop the damage pot after they pile on you. Having wizards with massive explosions help a lot as well.
This is one of the two sorts of builds that actually could work vs VC with WoC in Wh2, though you obviously didn't have the warshrine auras or festus. Double giant + Archaon + chosen and summoners of rage (instead of spawn, because spawn generally aren't actually that good in these sort of blob builds because they don't trade well into chaff).
Somebody did this to me waaaaaaay back in warhammer 1. I was VC and tried a balanced build. He brought a giant, lord and a ton of halberds. No idea how I woulda killed em
Every patch: Vampire counts gonna be crazy. Every patch a month in - they are barely playable niche pick crushed by SEM halberd boxes. At least we now have have a game mode where its not really a valid strategy.
I think Slaanesh piling in as hard as they did hurt them way more than it helped. The warshrines need kills to build up to full effectiveness, so maybe spells and marauder horsemen to soften them up before going in a little more cautiously might work? Secure kills bit by bit instead of trying to dogpile. Is Azazel competitive? How good is Pavane of Slaanesh? Would it secure model kills?
the summer championship already had players with double Slaanesh shrine or Festus + Slaanesh shrine. What's new is adding the Nurgle shrine to the mix because why the hell not
Hmm, do you think a possible fix is for the special new Chaos lords to only be able to bring Undivided units and then Marked/Demon units of that particular god? I.e. Festus would be limited to just bringing a Nurgle Warshrine?
@@turinRTS I meant instead of the Chosen of Tzeentch with Halberd. Festus, and two shrine make for 3 marks and i was wondering why the halberd over the marked spawn
Is there some kind of tactic you recommend for a faction without range against this? Like, trickle in stuff? try to snipe festus? Just surrender and move on?
snipe Festus and the Slannesh Warshrine with single entities (mortis engine effects aren't very good against single entities) then prioritize the Nurgle shrine to shut off their regen don't attack their main army (or let them attack yours) until the Warshrines are down, they increase in effectiveness with every nearby entity death (pretty sure this includes allied unit death). if you must fight then find a way to do it away from the Warshrines.
Dragons breath, fire and Arcane Phoenix, a few Aoe Spells , units which deal fire damage or imbue with fire etc. It is a nice build , but you can bunker bust it easy.
@@jerryamescua Every faction which has monsters with breath attacks and there are a lot. Every faction which has access to fire spells or nukes. You nuke the infantry support and then everything dies so easy
Tournaments will 100% limit 1 mortis engine effect per army, there is chance that 2 shrines will also not be allowed. On the other hand they are uite expensive, so 2 might be still ok. One of better tools in warriors vs VC you have to win the long grind
@@andygreen3575 they need to remove land battles from ranked, land battles are shit for competitive games That's why Turin made up his own tournament rules in the first place
At least in LB you can shoot at it with some factions, in dom...you're forced to fight it. and while the build is cancer, in land battles you would fight it the same way you would vs mortise spam before from VC, which is send units in 1 at a time, making sure you're ones are fresh while opponents are exhausted for the big difference in stats and at same time avoid their effects draining multiple units. Its only real cancer if people dont know how to play and go with dom style headless melee mash.
Seems vulnerable to artillery that kills models outright as dead models can't be healed. Slannesh used in this example is one of the few factions that don't have any artillery
Would you guys say the game is now at a point where it makes sense to jump in for a somewhat casual fan? I originally had intended to buy the game around release date, but then early footage convinced me otherwise.
How dare you introduce the double mortis double healtis to us. This was supposed to be a blessed day. You were supposed to bring joy to the multiplayer community, not shroud it in darkness.
The problem here is the damage damage more than the healing. Units are being drained 40-80hp per second around that blob. There wasn't enough time for units in the blob to hit their healing cap, especially against an army of chaff with low AP values vs Chosen with 120 armour. The healing cap is 75%, and, IIRC, fleshy abundance is healing ~25.2% unit HP (1.2% for 20s + initial tick?), so even with 2 OC fleshy abundance casts, it'd take around 4 minutes to hit the healing cap.
Chosen are a terrible pick here though surely? It would more sense to load this build up with SEM or even monstrous infantry because those aren't vulnerable to AoE and will get more out of the healing, or to include more trash to feed the Slaanesh shrine?
Who's casting pit of shades? I know Festus doesn't have lore of Shadows so I'm guessing it's Sigvald? Why is he casting on his own units? The second one mostly hit Slaanesh units. Even if we assume Marauders can't outdamage .1% per second healing on Chosen, Pit of Shades overcast is 120 damage. 120 is probably enough to route chosen in the 12 seconds they heal only 1.2% of their hp. Like was it not overcast?
They literally placed two Pit of Shades that got full duration tanked. Bigger issue is they sent in ALL their units though. That's a lot of melee sitting around just dying while getting 0 value.
I think you can defeat this build with better spell use and abusing fatigue. For example here, just send in 1 marauder to tie down the chosen, pit of shades them, rinse+repeat 2 more times and then commit everything. Problem really is trying to defeat the SEM's.
Yeah I knew I wasn't touching MP for quite some time. But I find it funny you say if you a Dom player.... isn't it still 50/50 chance to get either mode?
To be fair, Turin and most of his contemporaries exist in a vacuum where they only play custom battles against eachother and people in their discord communities and never have to actually touch the nasty ladder.
Just wait, this time tomorrow enticity will have a tip video about how to counter this easily using something like a spell less hero and a single war hound
When I face a mortis engine build with Slaanesh I tend to use double Soul Grinder and chariots (plus overcasted pit of shades), and SEM spam in general. The idea is that the chariots don’t allow the mortis engines to get into combat because they don’t stick around long enough. Once the infantry is hopefully dead the Soul Grinders can use their anti-large to focus down the mortis engine, then the Slaanesh infantry and cav comes in as the last wave. I normally used this against Nurgle before Festus was introduced though, so not sure how it would work against so much stacking damage and heals!
@@chowchow1319 Turin said it isn't specifically illegal in the video. In addition, he also said many times by now that major tournaments will be domination, and only invitational tournaments will be land battles, to avoid drama queens. So I'm not worried I'll see it in actually competitive games, I'm just saying that ladder land battles are so filthy that Ku'gath would consider it a luxurious bath of thoroughly refined excrement.
Well Turin, as cool and as influential as he is, is not the be all end all of all tournament. There is still a LB tournament scene and that build would not be legal as it involved 2 Mortis engine
@@rocketroux5838 I never said that it was tournament legal, I merely concluded that ladder as a whole is now an even worse cesspool, and it already wasn't in a good place. I like land battles but I don't like asshats draw kiting in ladder. Let's make that distinction clear.
The stacking of auras and other things to make Chaos broken is exactly why I don't like the entire mark of chaos idea. The idea of giving all these units to all of the chaos factions is a recipe for disaster. I hope I don't see this stuff in multiplayer.
not all of the chaos factions get all of these units. Slannesh doesn't get the healing shrine because that's a Nurgle unit while Nurgle doesn't get the mortis shrine because that's a slannesh unit. each monogod only gets their own marked units. only WoC can fully mix and match but unit caps limit them to 4 marked units per army.
CA can fix this, I'm tired of them and us pretending like that isn't possible. Limit to one mortis engine is the most obvious starting point. They could very easily lift from the good tournament rules for that unit limits button, which is default selected for Ranked play.
The AoE magic damage from the Festus and the Slaanesh shrine bypasses the main advantage of ethereal units - physical resistance. Be'lakor might be able to do something.
If the Chosen aren't being held in place by anything, you can probably dodge most magic damage until the other guy runs out of WoM (it isn't like this is a micro intensive build). And besides, there are only a small number of spells that are really useful against something as tough as Chosen. Pit of Shades, Fate of Buna, Comet of Cassandora, plus a couple of faction specific spells. And anyone who brought a caster that wasn't a dedicated blaster (a healer, a buffer, a net caster, etc.) is still out of luck.
Honestly, just from looking at these pre-public release replays from a lot of great content creators, WOC might just need to be banned from land-battle tournaments? They seem really overtuned in the current state of the game; all these marked units, WH3 units, & 4 LL really shot them up from "joke" to "top tier" Edit: Or give these warshrines/Festus the Fey treatment; only active in melee. If free mortus engine was too OP for Bretonnia, it's absolutely too much for WOC...
Thank god domination saved us from this cheese!!!!! Yeah right - I get it. Not a single cast without domiation propaganda anymore. Being predictable has a new lvl. Earn your dime - another business day. GL
This just seems like a matchup issue to me. With the Pick 3 Ban 1 Pick system you're VERY unlikely to be in a situation where you're forced to play an all meele faction into WoC. Yeah, some factions are going to be hard counters to one another and I don't think that's necessairly a bad thing, what faction you pick should greatly impact your chance of victory. And the course of action here is simple ban WoC when picking Khorne/Slaanesh/VC and don't pick those factions into WoC. Just implement picks and bans in the ranked matches of the base game instead of the silly blind pick we have now.
@@turinRTS Could be, but now that I look at it the Warshrines will need a lot of stat and cost tweaking in the upcoming patches anyway. Compared to the Undead Mortis engine (which dies in like 3 volleys of focus fire) They have 50% more HP, higher armour and way better Meele stats, and don't need to be in meele to proc mortis. And are 100 gold *Cheaper* despite that. Not to mention the non-Nurgle/Slaanesh warshrines are absolute garbage compared to their chad Green and Purple counterparts.
@@lucynamarzec8000 the Slannesh one is probably cheaper because it starts without the mortis effect and slowly builds it up as entities die near it. if you focus it down with single entities while ignoring the rest of the army (and just not sending the bulk of yours in) the mortis effect will never even activate.
Ain't you afraid that this kind of build will make multiplayer unbearable and people will leave cause so much people are doing the "promotion" of cancer builds like this ?
I didn't articulate it super well, but what I meant to say is, if the mortis/aoe heal effects have different names. They stack! Cheers!
Take this and compare it to a double Slaanesh/Khorne war shrine and see if they have the DPS.
You could solve the problem by calling it an AoE DoT/drain rather than continuing to name the entire concept after one single unit's effect.
Action movie heroes don't articulate. They just speak, no matter how hagard
@@Skagwatcher Especially as it's a different effect, Mortis Engines specifically need to be in melee to get the effect.
this is illegal tho, only 1 mortis effect per army , thankfully
Turin maniacally laughing and clasping his hands together evil wizard style while coming up with this
Personal take: Flaming attacks should deal damage to your healing cap.
For example, if a Flaming attack deals 30 damage, it does 30 damage, plus an additional 30 towards your healing cap.
that'd be really cool
That would be neat, and offer a bonus to Flaming attacks to make them more relevant than taking advantage of the (very rare) weaknesses to fire
I like this, makes fire more dangerous to undead specifically, as the Wood Elves don't really ever have enough healing magic to hit that healing cap.
I feel like the full surround is a terrible idea here since it maximizes the units feeding and getting hit by the mortis.
Would be really interested to see how a more elite Slaanesh build with skirmishers would do. Nevertheless, it's definitely a scary build that the chaos factions will have to account for. Good find!
If you DON'T full surround you have no chance at bursting them down or breaking through, meaning max. value from their healing.
So if you throw everything at them, you die to double mortis engine. You don't throw everything at them, they will never die.
It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
@@jabloko992 Not really, the argument is that there are ALOT of models out of combat but still inside the range of the mortis engine.
@@generalharness8266 Ok, then you get a second wave, what will that change?
@@jabloko992 Healing caps on the chosen most likely. edit: not saying things will change, but that would likely be the strategy you'd have to go for.
They're missing.... buff/debuff spells ;)
I took one look at the thumbnail and immediately clicked on the video to see what I was assuming to be pure unadulterated filth. I was not disappointed.
I love when Turin does this kind of videos.
Hm. I'm struggling to think of a way for an all-melee faction to deal with this that doesn't leave them hellishly vulnerable to a player who took a normal army.
Magic spam them until they reach healing cap, I guess?
Well first of all you dont stack all your units like this so they all get hit by maximum damage AoE spells, and maximum number of drain from the mortis engine. Secondly small single enteties like sigvald and 2 heroes won't care about chosen with halbards or mortis so thats 4k that won't care about his army at all.
@@jrgenaarvik7671 which is why like Turin said, you take a Giant and some spawn on top of this.
There's only one solution to this heresy brother.
Bring the dread saurian. The heavy dread saurian.
Shredder + Engine of the Gods + High Magic = Ratio
@@noahfelix6641 Load Kroak: "Pizza time."
@@walter1383 Mama Mia!
Why’d they decide to add 2 mortis engines that don’t need to be in melee after changing that in Warhammer 1
To sell the DLC.
The added 2 items for Cathay; “Catalytic Kiln” and “Kite of the Uppermost Aeries” and 1 for Kislev that that also give a DoT effect without being in melee.
@@Debilinside thats some paranoide stuff
Doesn't really make sense when you consider how small the multi-player user base is.
As for how Vampire Counts could deal, what about a dragon lord for big breath attacks to clear out the halbreds?
average balanced domination fan vs. average degenerate land battle enjoyer
This build would also be illegal in tourney.
If you could try to get CA to update their unit caps to reflect more closely the tournament rules that would be cool for the LB community.
Tbh why are unit caps a thing? If someone wants to spam missiles and get slaaneshed how is that a problem? (I'm a pvp noob)
noo tourney rules suck for single player.
I have to make note that those pit of shades were quite miss placed, on SEM and not on the infantry.
Same goes for the all in rush in, that's not how you should fight this, so many units don't attack if that way.
You have to attack heavily but not stack so much stuff that half of it doesn't even fight properly...
For Slaanesh, maybe heavy chariot focus? Just scythe through the infantry without committing to an engagement until the infantry is mostly gone, then pile in on the single entities.
For Khorne, I think the gameplan is Skull Cannons and Skarbrand. Skarbrand is there to rampage things out of the box, send in some sacrificial spawn or something to make sure the rest of the box doesn't follow. Skull Cannons will chip away at the heal cap and can regenerate ammo by mopping up any infantry that get pulled out of the box.
This is basically what I used to do, it can be tough if Nurgle or whoever have their own single entities though
I don't really understand why they brought back no-melee mortis engine effects when they already changed that back in WH1 due to it being way too broken
because they're scaling the power of everything up in WH 3, including in-direct methods in non-pvp; more ways to attain multi-faction armies, better control of AI allies.
I'm fairly sure CA are aware of the thin line they're treading and the inevitable moment when some things will still prove to be busted.
@@renzbolado153 Yeah kinda like how they overtuned a bunch of effects back to how they were busted in WH1 like Pendulum and og Devolve.
Fun fact, the shrines power up from entity deaths not enemy deaths. This may not seem important but this means using summons of any kind and letting them expire boosts the shrine.
Double Morris engine has been good in quick battles for years with VC having ghorst, but is obviously tournament illegal.
Which is exactly why multiple mortis effects are banned.
If you play Khorne, you want to have skull cannons. I can't see how NOT having them along is a real option. Or marauders with throwing axes, I guess those work too.
isnt it mentioned in vid that marauder throwing axes dont have the DPS to cut through the double healing?
or you can get SEMs, like double bloodthristers as well as throwing axes
Festus: prepare for troubles
Slaanesh Warshrine: and make it double
Nurgle Warshrine: meoww
underrated
It will work against ranged. Stack them on each other in a forest, trees will literally block everything. pop healing mode until they run out of ammo. Chosen of nurgle with shields works best for this they literally take no damage from missiles. Pop the damage pot after they pile on you. Having wizards with massive explosions help a lot as well.
This is one of the two sorts of builds that actually could work vs VC with WoC in Wh2, though you obviously didn't have the warshrine auras or festus. Double giant + Archaon + chosen and summoners of rage (instead of spawn, because spawn generally aren't actually that good in these sort of blob builds because they don't trade well into chaff).
Somebody did this to me waaaaaaay back in warhammer 1. I was VC and tried a balanced build.
He brought a giant, lord and a ton of halberds.
No idea how I woulda killed em
Every patch: Vampire counts gonna be crazy.
Every patch a month in - they are barely playable niche pick crushed by SEM halberd boxes. At least we now have have a game mode where its not really a valid strategy.
I think Slaanesh piling in as hard as they did hurt them way more than it helped. The warshrines need kills to build up to full effectiveness, so maybe spells and marauder horsemen to soften them up before going in a little more cautiously might work? Secure kills bit by bit instead of trying to dogpile. Is Azazel competitive? How good is Pavane of Slaanesh? Would it secure model kills?
"Beware! Its out there!" Thats funny and true... :'D
those two choas shrines arent available in multiplayer though. did they remove them?
Shrines should be limit 1 per army. Doesn't make sense to have a shrine to Nurgle and a shrine to Slaanesh.
I thought that was kinda janky too. Interesting combo though.
TAUROX SOLO THAT ARMY
Yes dad
I literally talked with some friends about this build today. Now everyone will see it coming! ahahhahahaha Ye looks so cool
the summer championship already had players with double Slaanesh shrine or Festus + Slaanesh shrine. What's new is adding the Nurgle shrine to the mix because why the hell not
Hmm, do you think a possible fix is for the special new Chaos lords to only be able to bring Undivided units and then Marked/Demon units of that particular god? I.e. Festus would be limited to just bringing a Nurgle Warshrine?
Why not mark the spawn instead of the Chosen? Both the Tzeentch and Slasnesh one have great contact effect
Limit of 4 marks!
@@turinRTS I meant instead of the Chosen of Tzeentch with Halberd. Festus, and two shrine make for 3 marks and i was wondering why the halberd over the marked spawn
Is there some kind of tactic you recommend for a faction without range against this? Like, trickle in stuff? try to snipe festus? Just surrender and move on?
snipe Festus and the Slannesh Warshrine with single entities (mortis engine effects aren't very good against single entities) then prioritize the Nurgle shrine to shut off their regen
don't attack their main army (or let them attack yours) until the Warshrines are down, they increase in effectiveness with every nearby entity death (pretty sure this includes allied unit death). if you must fight then find a way to do it away from the Warshrines.
Nurgly tanking was the first thing I was going to try when the game drops.
Dragons breath, fire and Arcane Phoenix, a few Aoe Spells , units which deal fire damage or imbue with fire etc. It is a nice build , but you can bunker bust it easy.
I’ve never heard of the high elves
@@jerryamescua Every faction which has monsters with breath attacks and there are a lot. Every faction which has access to fire spells or nukes. You nuke the infantry support and then everything dies so easy
Vampires called, they want their Mortis blob back
Tournaments will 100% limit 1 mortis engine effect per army, there is chance that 2 shrines will also not be allowed. On the other hand they are uite expensive, so 2 might be still ok. One of better tools in warriors vs VC you have to win the long grind
Encountered this filth yesterday, luckily I was Wood Elves with a couple Starfire shafts. It was still pretty miserable
This has to be some sort of massive oversight. I refuse to believe that they did this intentionally.
The game is tuned for domination battles though isn't it, not land battles?
@@andygreen3575 Domination and land battles are part of the ranked queues.
Didn't you listen to Turin? Embrace domination and you shall be saved!!!!!
@@camtelligence not when you get 50/50 dom/land chosen randomly on ranked ladder.
@@andygreen3575 they need to remove land battles from ranked, land battles are shit for competitive games
That's why Turin made up his own tournament rules in the first place
Hope the abilities aren't nerfed into uselessness in campaign
I'm not sure if you say it this way on purpose but it's harbinger (har -ben-jer) not harbringer. I learned the word from Magic the Gathering :P
What about artillery and ranged units?
Great build, I love it
Imagine if the other player who anticipate this brought an all ranged army
You drown in throwing axes
doesn't fire lower healing effect? khorne has access to fire quite easily.
Note to self: Bring a long range artillery SEM killer vs Chaos. Dang this looks dirty
At least in LB you can shoot at it with some factions, in dom...you're forced to fight it.
and while the build is cancer, in land battles you would fight it the same way you would vs mortise spam before from VC, which is send units in 1 at a time, making sure you're ones are fresh while opponents are exhausted for the big difference in stats and at same time avoid their effects draining multiple units. Its only real cancer if people dont know how to play and go with dom style headless melee mash.
Pit of shade overcast for slaanesh though... but without that dont see an option for slaanesh
The only improvement would be have the giant be the pooping nurgle giant
Finally a reason to bring Bloated Corpses to the battlefield. To delete this degenerate build.
That's disgusting, nurgle would be proud
You still doing a tourny tomorrow? I wanna watch and play.
totaltavern.com/tournament/83
Seems vulnerable to artillery that kills models outright as dead models can't be healed. Slannesh used in this example is one of the few factions that don't have any artillery
Would you guys say the game is now at a point where it makes sense to jump in for a somewhat casual fan? I originally had intended to buy the game around release date, but then early footage convinced me otherwise.
Wait a few days until people have some time to play the new update to be sure, but it seems so.
@@seonor Yeah, you're probably right, with the amount of changes and additional content it'll probably take people some time to come to a conclusion.
How dare you introduce the double mortis double healtis to us. This was supposed to be a blessed day. You were supposed to bring joy to the multiplayer community, not shroud it in darkness.
me a year ago: I look forward to warhammer 3 with balancing improvements to avoid degenerate blobs
warhammer 3:
Just imagine with those extra funds you can give those units chevrons, oof time.
oh god, it's vampire deathstar 2.0
didn't there used to be healing caps?
The problem here is the damage damage more than the healing. Units are being drained 40-80hp per second around that blob. There wasn't enough time for units in the blob to hit their healing cap, especially against an army of chaff with low AP values vs Chosen with 120 armour. The healing cap is 75%, and, IIRC, fleshy abundance is healing ~25.2% unit HP (1.2% for 20s + initial tick?), so even with 2 OC fleshy abundance casts, it'd take around 4 minutes to hit the healing cap.
Chosen are a terrible pick here though surely? It would more sense to load this build up with SEM or even monstrous infantry because those aren't vulnerable to AoE and will get more out of the healing, or to include more trash to feed the Slaanesh shrine?
Haggard warshrine mayhem yes-yes
Who's casting pit of shades? I know Festus doesn't have lore of Shadows so I'm guessing it's Sigvald? Why is he casting on his own units? The second one mostly hit Slaanesh units. Even if we assume Marauders can't outdamage .1% per second healing on Chosen, Pit of Shades overcast is 120 damage. 120 is probably enough to route chosen in the 12 seconds they heal only 1.2% of their hp. Like was it not overcast?
Uh, bro? The Slaanesh caster was the one casting Pit of Shades.
All this takes to undo is literally one well placed damaging spell. Kroak would delete this with one Deliverance.
They literally placed two Pit of Shades that got full duration tanked.
Bigger issue is they sent in ALL their units though. That's a lot of melee sitting around just dying while getting 0 value.
isnt there a cap on healing in wh3 ?
I think you can defeat this build with better spell use and abusing fatigue. For example here, just send in 1 marauder to tie down the chosen, pit of shades them, rinse+repeat 2 more times and then commit everything. Problem really is trying to defeat the SEM's.
Most tournaments ban multiple mortis engines…
In tournaments this build is illegal, only one mortis effect per army.
That's why land battles need to go from the ladder system, it's way too open for cheese
Or they could just implement the same rules they use in tournaments and allow for just one mortis effect. That build would not be tournament legal.
Amber spear spam to kill the infantry!
omg land battle!
Yeah I knew I wasn't touching MP for quite some time. But I find it funny you say if you a Dom player.... isn't it still 50/50 chance to get either mode?
Hope they changed it
To be fair, Turin and most of his contemporaries exist in a vacuum where they only play custom battles against eachother and people in their discord communities and never have to actually touch the nasty ladder.
Just wait, this time tomorrow enticity will have a tip video about how to counter this easily using something like a spell less hero and a single war hound
Gotta hit with extreme spike DPS like comet of cassadora
When I face a mortis engine build with Slaanesh I tend to use double Soul Grinder and chariots (plus overcasted pit of shades), and SEM spam in general.
The idea is that the chariots don’t allow the mortis engines to get into combat because they don’t stick around long enough. Once the infantry is hopefully dead the Soul Grinders can use their anti-large to focus down the mortis engine, then the Slaanesh infantry and cav comes in as the last wave.
I normally used this against Nurgle before Festus was introduced though, so not sure how it would work against so much stacking damage and heals!
These mortis engines don't need to be in combat for the effect to apply.
@@Senorpoontang Festus doesn’t but the warshrine does. Festus is a flaw in my plan so admit…
One more sleep - I'm so excited ! 😁
Another reason to avoid ladder and land battles entirely.
this is not tournament legal
@@chowchow1319 Turin said it isn't specifically illegal in the video. In addition, he also said many times by now that major tournaments will be domination, and only invitational tournaments will be land battles, to avoid drama queens.
So I'm not worried I'll see it in actually competitive games, I'm just saying that ladder land battles are so filthy that Ku'gath would consider it a luxurious bath of thoroughly refined excrement.
Well Turin, as cool and as influential as he is, is not the be all end all of all tournament. There is still a LB tournament scene and that build would not be legal as it involved 2 Mortis engine
@@rocketroux5838 I never said that it was tournament legal, I merely concluded that ladder as a whole is now an even worse cesspool, and it already wasn't in a good place. I like land battles but I don't like asshats draw kiting in ladder. Let's make that distinction clear.
The stacking of auras and other things to make Chaos broken is exactly why I don't like the entire mark of chaos idea. The idea of giving all these units to all of the chaos factions is a recipe for disaster. I hope I don't see this stuff in multiplayer.
not all of the chaos factions get all of these units. Slannesh doesn't get the healing shrine because that's a Nurgle unit while Nurgle doesn't get the mortis shrine because that's a slannesh unit. each monogod only gets their own marked units. only WoC can fully mix and match but unit caps limit them to 4 marked units per army.
Thank god for single player.
I would expect it to be patched in some way down the line.
CA can fix this, I'm tired of them and us pretending like that isn't possible.
Limit to one mortis engine is the most obvious starting point. They could very easily lift from the good tournament rules for that unit limits button, which is default selected for Ranked play.
and this is why online never ever interests me in most games
Hah i saw this build 2 time as Brettonia. Ones i loose but secon time i win desisivly
I believe H elves can deal whit this.
Maybe some ethereal units might be able to do something? Or Be’lakor?
The AoE magic damage from the Festus and the Slaanesh shrine bypasses the main advantage of ethereal units - physical resistance. Be'lakor might be able to do something.
No competent player would charge into that though. They’ll take out your chosen with magic then send in units in a stream to take out the SEMs.
If the Chosen aren't being held in place by anything, you can probably dodge most magic damage until the other guy runs out of WoM (it isn't like this is a micro intensive build).
And besides, there are only a small number of spells that are really useful against something as tough as Chosen. Pit of Shades, Fate of Buna, Comet of Cassandora, plus a couple of faction specific spells. And anyone who brought a caster that wasn't a dedicated blaster (a healer, a buffer, a net caster, etc.) is still out of luck.
Pretty sure it's not tournament legal
Awesome video
Honestly, just from looking at these pre-public release replays from a lot of great content creators, WOC might just need to be banned from land-battle tournaments? They seem really overtuned in the current state of the game; all these marked units, WH3 units, & 4 LL really shot them up from "joke" to "top tier"
Edit: Or give these warshrines/Festus the Fey treatment; only active in melee. If free mortus engine was too OP for Bretonnia, it's absolutely too much for WOC...
Imagine the smell.
So perhaps mortises should be and here me out here limited to one per army?
Fay mortas engine is only 6-12 XD. They need to fix old warld factions because they are so week compere to demons
Thank god domination saved us from this cheese!!!!! Yeah right - I get it. Not a single cast without domiation propaganda anymore. Being predictable has a new lvl. Earn your dime - another business day. GL
If it is toxic -it is bad balancing by CA - it's not another case for advocating domination.
No one would fight nurgle like that and if they do they deserve the L. They're slow as fucking shit man, they have to have something.
Thats illegal. And should be! :D
Epic
This is worse than the pike noob geometry of rome the warhammer 1 vampire count blobs.
And "Unholy Business" sounds like a thrash record
This just seems like a matchup issue to me.
With the Pick 3 Ban 1
Pick system you're VERY unlikely to be in a situation where you're forced to play an all meele faction into WoC.
Yeah, some factions are going to be hard counters to one another and I don't think that's necessairly a bad thing, what faction you pick should greatly impact your chance of victory.
And the course of action here is simple ban WoC when picking Khorne/Slaanesh/VC and don't pick those factions into WoC.
Just implement picks and bans in the ranked matches of the base game instead of the silly blind pick we have now.
It's only an issue in land battles really, even still, ranged can beat it
@@turinRTS Could be, but now that I look at it the Warshrines will need a lot of stat and cost tweaking in the upcoming patches anyway.
Compared to the Undead Mortis engine (which dies in like 3 volleys of focus fire)
They have 50% more HP, higher armour and way better Meele stats, and don't need to be in meele to proc mortis.
And are 100 gold *Cheaper* despite that.
Not to mention the non-Nurgle/Slaanesh warshrines are absolute garbage compared to their chad Green and Purple counterparts.
@@lucynamarzec8000 the Slannesh one is probably cheaper because it starts without the mortis effect and slowly builds it up as entities die near it. if you focus it down with single entities while ignoring the rest of the army (and just not sending the bulk of yours in) the mortis effect will never even activate.
faced variant of this build
I hated it
lets go passive shit gonna be nerf in pve bcs of it, for the love of god pls CA balance pve and pvp separatly
Ain't you afraid that this kind of build will make multiplayer unbearable and people will leave cause so much people are doing the "promotion" of cancer builds like this ?