At the end, when you considered the possibility of an earlier form of the otherworld not yet associated with the aristocracy, it made me think of the various 'lands of plenty' that crop up in folklore and media, where food and drink is plentiful without work and the usual social order is upended eg: Cockaigne, Lubberland, and 'big rock candy mountain'.
@@CelticSource Its a dream that is still used today to influence people whose daily life is not so good. I will try not to get too political, but the "sunlit uplands" promised the UK population in recent years comes to mind. As somebody who is comfortably well off and well educated its easy to see through them, but for the less fortunate part of the population such promises are very powerful.
We sti grow ten times as much food as we eat. And there are still Dragons, and the Elven shining one's and the Fairy folk here. And a thin veil between the worlds. Genetics have proven that some of the People here 6000 years ago were genetically identical to those who lived in Wales at that time. We have Ancestral records that date back 500 thousand years here, in Waitangi ki Raro. The land known as Heaven, Ao-te-aroha "The Love of the God most high" The Picts, or Tuatha e Dana, are the Turehu of Zealandia.
Oddly enough I was directed to this video while researching the lore of Elden Ring. But after listening to your soothing asmr tone i am hooked. Outstanding work.
You never mentioned Tír Tairngire / Tír na nÓg as the Irish Otherworld, and which is quite analogical to the Welsh Annwfn - a single kingdom where immortal beings dwell, the kingdom accessed through water, mists and through the síd. What about it and how does it fit (or not) into the picture you described? Can it be that the “many isolated pocket worlds” concept of the síd was a later misconception / misunderstanding by the Christian scribes of the ancient lore?
Great video. Would love to hear your thoughts on the 3 Ysbrydnos. Your commentary about the possible belief of having access to Annwfn at particular times of year made me think of the Ysbrydnos.
Yes, they are clearly linked. Communication between this realm and Annwfn is easier on those nights. It's quite a big subject in Welsh folklore though, so I'll put it on the list of future videos but it may need more than one!
This is a superb video which laymanizes typically inaccessible descriptions perfectly! Really supported my essay (don't worry, it was referenced accordingly) Thank you!
This is really insightful. For almost two years I’ve been working on a novel baised off of Irish, Scottish, welsh, and Manx mythology and I’m having it take place in what I’m naming the “Otherealm” before the Tuatha de danan (sorry if spelling is wrong) Settled Ireland. My motto is only throw away accuracy for coolness. But it would be nice to hear what you assume the otherworld could look like. This novel has been a passion project I’ve been carefully handcrafting. When I’m finished with the first draft I’d love to get some suggestions to make it more accurate where possible
I suppose the natural conclusion to draw from the discussion above would be to view the very human depiction of the otherworld as a canvas upon which those with cultural influence / dominance project themselves. To this day, the 'Otherworld' exists in a modern cultural context that defines it according to those with influence.
@@CelticSource have you ever seen Under the Skin (2013) by Jonathan Glazier /Michel Faber? be interesting to hear your thoughts if you have - i see very ancient Scottish Gaelic and wider Celtic motifs underscoring its superficially modern themes
Excellent thought provoking topic and contents; especially for me as a Yoga and Meditation teacher based in Gaeltacht centred on Ballinskelligs, County Kerry. In the early Sanskrit texts (300BCE and dating maybe a millennium before that) Meditation has the well known concept of sitting in an auspicious venue and leaving the normal world of things and places, for another world of transcend awareness. The meditation practices in the Proto-Indian-European world (Yoga) had a focus on Siddhis (special powers) arising from meditation. In this context I was very interested in what you said about ‘sit’ (and sitting) being the origin of the Early Irish concept of Otherworld. BTW… Christianity has always had the concept of sitting in meditation and entering a transcendent World closer to God.
I think we do need to consider these more 'anthropological' ideas when talking about such things. Position and place appear to be really important to these ancient sites at least.
I like your detailed explanations. can you make a video on history of fairy tales or tell me why fairytale are called fairy tales. Also what is the deference between a myth and fairytale?
You speak about Welsh and Irish Otherworld traditions (and they're very well explained, informative, interesting and helpful) but what is know of Scottish Otherworld traditions? How do they differ?
Very roughly speaking, Scots are Gael (Irish) tribes which settled parts of Northern Ireland and Scotland - the Kingdom of Dál Riada, the part of which finally became Alba (Scotland) around IX century, already Christianised by that time. Before adopting Christianity they possessed the same worldviews as the inhabitants of Ireland because all of them were the same people and had the same culture. So there can’t be “Scottish Otherworld” per se, there is only Gaelic / Irish one. Although no one knows whether the Picts, with whom the Irish settlers mingled on the lands of contemporary Scotland, had any concept of an “Otherworld” and if they did, what was it, unfortunately.
I understand that a variety of areas in the landscape such as certain water source could be considered focal points of Celtic worship, is there a reason why the other world type concept seems to be mainly focused on underground spaces rather than other places where worship had been traditionally conducted?
I'm not sure if it's mainly focussed on underground spaces, most of the explicit examples of Annwfn in mediaeval Welsh literature are-bye no means underground. For example all instances in the Four Branches. Islands out at sea are also another favourite metaphor found in both Welsh and Irish myth. Annwfn as an underground realm appears to be something that belongs to the Welsh folk tradition as opposed to the tradition of classical literature.
Interesting possibility. According to wiktionary they're all accounted for in separate stems: Sí From Middle Irish side, from Old Irish síd (“fairy mound”), from Proto-Celtic *sedos, *sīdos (“mound (inhabited by fairies)”), from Proto-Indo-European *sēds, *sed- (“seat”). Seiðr From Proto-Germanic *saidaz (“magic, charm”), from Proto-Indo-European *soytós ("magic"). Seethe From Middle English sethen, from Old English sēoþan, from Proto-Germanic *seuþaną (“to seethe, boil”), from Proto-Indo-European *h₂sewt-, *h₂sut-, *h₂sew- (“to move about, roil, seethe”).
@@EdricoftheWeald the "mound" part is also interesting, because the Alfar (Norse elves) are associated with burial mounds. They seem to have a lot of similarities. Could be cultural synchronization
I don't think so. Adam Hyllested in 'The Precursors of Celtic and Germanic' connects seiðr etymologically with the Proto-Celtic '*soito-' (sorcery) and Proto Germanic 'saiða'. He considers it to be probably identical to the PIE '*soi-to', or 'string', 'rope', and derived from '*sei-i', or 'to bind'. This aligns well with the work of ON scholars such as Eldar Heide and archaeologists such as Leszek Gardela and Neil Price that underlines the connections between some forms of seiðr and spinning (yarn). Having said that though, there is a connection with elves - a very deep one IMO. In the sagas and romances we see this partnership between elves and witches (the Ynglingasaga account of Freyja the goddess who taught seiðr to the æsir as sacrificial priestess at the mound cult of her elf brother being the best example). I also don't believe it to be a coincidence that one of the cognate words for seiðr in OE, 'sīden' was often collocated with 'ælf' as 'ælfsīden'. I recommend reading Alaric Hall's 'Elves in Anglo-Saxon England' for the most complete treatment of elves in relation to magic and magically originated sicknesses.
Why can't we view Annwfn as a unified Otherworld, within which there a many separate and distinct strongholds, or Sidh? Each Sidh being the abode of those dwelling (or imprisoned) there. And only at certain times, or under certain circumstances can one cross from one Sidh to another, whether by traversing through our world, or through Annwfn?
because that doesn't appear to be what the tradition tells us, if you can only cross from one mound to the next at Samain, they are by their nature separate
very interesting , to me , its Sid, "Shee" and here its a very local thing with accents included . meaning to me would be "entrance to" where the bright ones are , all of our celtic cuntures are linked , maybe through the druids . thank you , your search has a meaning
Thanks for comment Full Irish, very interesting you understand it as entrance. Of course, regional meaning is important to preserve, apologies for flattening it somewhat in my clumsy way. It happens a lot round these parts too.
@@CelticSource your content is important to the grand thinking of things .I was at dowth today ,our culture is grand .my personal beliefs about the Sid is the builders made it for creation a birthing place to concive kings , through close family unions . I think the closest think to the gates of hell we have here is the cave of cats or the cave of battles ,the sSid of the morogan . I'm mot an academic, just a pre history fan , its has no borders, qe are of one tribe in these islands
Maybe Caer Sidi being a way for a welsh bard to explain to irish Dyfed kingdom ruler/s about Annwfn in relation to their own irish knowledge of sidh. i have no idea about chronology, prolly throws my hypothesis out the window :)
I am interested in etymology and your other content, but it's mostly over my head and I just like the sound of your voice. When I have my next period of restlessness in the wee hours, in addition to drinking some more chamomile, I will have to listen to another of your lectures, sorry . . .
Dr., Wouldn't the Otherworlds need to be connected in some way? The House of Donn is where many believed the dead landed first. There to be sorted to their proper destination.
Don't think so. It's absorbed into Welsh as 'siddi'. I'm following the Patrick Simms-Williams book mentioned in the video, and I think he references Hamp and O'Cathasaig. Let me know if you find a better source on that.
@@elgranlugus7267 According to wiktionary, Old Irish 'síd' was pronounced /sʲiːð/ in the nominative-accusative and /sʲiːðʲ/ in the dative. Since the spellings originate from that period, it makes sense it would originally have been quite phonetic.
@@CelticSource Oh my god Siddhars are ancient Tamil beings the enlightened beings i heard they have super powers that human can't imagine, please reply I have more to say That other world is reachable through nirvana the enlightenment That is who you call siddi or Siddhe
Actually, in Old Irish TH was pronounced as English TH in “think”, “math”, so if one pronounces SÍD as “see-the”, (s)he has to be consistent and pronounce TUATHA as “too-ah-tha” (with θ sound in the last syllable), that is what any Dr acquainted with Old Irish would do ))) Otherwise, it sounds like a hodgepodge of Old and Modern Irish - pronouncing some terms in contemporary manner, others - as they were pronounced in the source language ))) Also, in Old Irish Mac Óc is pronounced “mahk ohg”, not “mahc ohc” (since C in “mac” was clearly pronounced as “k”, which survived in Modern Irish, and which is testified by some scribes writing this word as “macc” to show the “k” pronunciation of the last consonant. Óc (óg in Modern Irish) was always written with one “c”, and inter-vocal / final “c”s in Old Irish pronounced as “g” (as in “green”, “goose”).
@@altanerener7315 sidhe is pronounced "she" so no. Where did you get that old irish pronounced th that way? Edit: also it wouldn't be "too-ah-tha" it would be "too-ha"... and I'm fluent in irish by the way..
Oh my god Siddhars are ancient Tamil beings the enlightened beings i heard they have super powers that human can't imagine, please reply I have more to say That other world is reachable through nirvana the enlightenment That is who you call siddi or Siddhe
Not sure if the Sanskrit term siddhi can be traced back to the same Indo-European root sed-*, I can't find that connection myself, would be interesting to find out though. We would need an historical linguist to tell us.
@@CelticSource I am talking about Tamil words that are still called in same name but with minor changes. . Siddhars are only known in Tamil civilization and their other names are siddi, Siddhe like that. From what i learnt is the siddhars from here were there in European lands before even civilizations started in Europe. Goddess Morrigan is nothing but Lord Murugan of Tamil civilization. And Pashupati seal of indus exact same seal found in Europe too i think you call him as Lord of the animals.
@@karthikdon5 The current thinking (which could be wrong but it's unlikely), is that words both in Sanskrit and other Indo-European language would share a similar etymology. Tamil, although not Indo-European, could have received a similar word through a Sanskrit influence. Otherwise we would have to dream up some other, totally unique reason for why there is a similarity. Again, a historical linguist who had studied, both Dravidian and Indo-European languages would be able to tell us for certain.
@@gwilmor No its the other way around Sanskrit absorbed alot of tamil words and tamil culture is very old and our gods been worshipped in different names all along the world, one example Goddess Morrigan. Siddi is Siddhars, Siddhars used to do meditation at caves or mounds any place that is secluded, there seems to be major history been hidden from masses. Egyptian civilization also it's Hieroglyphs are pure Tamil likewise recently found evidences in Tamil Nadu matches with Indus Valley scripts, mayan civilization is said to be tamil civilization, Tamil was a global culture once i.e atleast 11k years back.....not only this but Slavic language has its roots from tamil, why i am saying this is tamil a global civilization once.... Sanskrit had alot of tamil influence.
There is a conceptual problem with only looking at the otherworld through the eyes of bookish scholars and ancient etymology. The first problem is not realising that the "otherworld" is still with us today and can be accessed at certain locations and times. Once a person has experienced the otherworld then the words being used to inadequately describe it are moot. I experienced the "otherworld" at Glastonbury in England on 3/3/3 by accident. I thought that the date would be on the calendar of every neo-druid in England and that there would be a big party at Glastonbury Tor. I was wrong. I travelled around 100 miles to get there at night along the St Michael ley line. It was a beautiful clear starlit night when I set out from London but that changed to thick green fog when I arrived at Glastonbury. When I went around a roundabout I could not find the exit roads and had to drive round the outside very slowly. Once I was on the right road I drove down the middle of the road very slowly and even so I crossed a T junction and nearly hit the gate opposite. Luckily there was a brass sign on the gate pointing to the Tor. I arrived at the Tor only because I found the disabled parking markings on the road. I set off wearing three coats because the fog was freezing. I had a torch and just followed the well worn path seeing just a few feet ahead and all I could see around me was thick mist. I arrived at the top and there was an icy gale and no party. So I said a prayer or two, which was very difficult under the weather conditions. In the morning it was light but there was no sun and just thick grey clouds and fog. I set off back down the path I had come up the night before and it was still thick fog. I soon reached the bottom of the hill and to my amazement , the sun was shining, there was no breeze, the butterflies were flitting about the field and the birds were happily singing but I was in the wrong place as I had arrived at a different side of the hill to where my car was parked. So I thought the quickest way to my car was to go back up the hill and down again. I left the sunny field and after climbing less that a hundred feet I was back in white mist. I kept going and when I reached the top and it was icy cold with a gale force wind, dark black clouds scudding across the tor and think fog everywhere and only the owl and pigeons for company. I decided to go down a different path in the opposite direction as I thought that my car would be down there. I set off down the path in the mist and after a short while I ended up in the same field, where the sun was shining, the butterflies were flitting from flower to flower, the birds were singing and there was no breeze. I did not understand what had happened."That's impossible I thought". I looked at the Tor at I could see its dark shadow through some light mist and I thought the weather must have changed rapidly as I went down the hill. So I decided to go back up the hill again. I had not climbed very far when I was back in the mist which got thicker and darker until I reached the top, where there was a gale force wind, no sun and dark clouds flitted by. I sat down very tired wondering what to do. Then I heard some voices as some other hikers came up the path. When they got to the top the mist cleared away within just a few minutes and I could see my car down below at the bottom of the hill. My experience is compatible with the legends of the otherworld in that area and the experience was of course completely impossible.
At the end, when you considered the possibility of an earlier form of the otherworld not yet associated with the aristocracy, it made me think of the various 'lands of plenty' that crop up in folklore and media, where food and drink is plentiful without work and the usual social order is upended eg: Cockaigne, Lubberland, and 'big rock candy mountain'.
It's a dream we will never relinquish. See you there, Phataluke.
@@CelticSource Its a dream that is still used today to influence people whose daily life is not so good. I will try not to get too political, but the "sunlit uplands" promised the UK population in recent years comes to mind. As somebody who is comfortably well off and well educated its easy to see through them, but for the less fortunate part of the population such promises are very powerful.
@@CelticSourceAnnwyfnn, land of Dragons, the Island called Heaven, directly under the Earth.
We sti grow ten times as much food as we eat.
And there are still Dragons, and the Elven shining one's and the Fairy folk here.
And a thin veil between the worlds.
Genetics have proven that some of the People here 6000 years ago were genetically identical to those who lived in Wales at that time.
We have Ancestral records that date back 500 thousand years here, in Waitangi ki Raro.
The land known as Heaven, Ao-te-aroha
"The Love of the God most high"
The Picts, or Tuatha e Dana, are the Turehu of Zealandia.
Oddly enough I was directed to this video while researching the lore of Elden Ring. But after listening to your soothing asmr tone i am hooked. Outstanding work.
thank you. Elden Ring looks awesome!
Came here from Lora Obriens blogs and stuff. Excited to learn. Thank you for posting up such a great video.
You're welcome. I'm sure Lora O'Brien has some thoughts on the matter too!
You never mentioned Tír Tairngire / Tír na nÓg as the Irish Otherworld, and which is quite analogical to the Welsh Annwfn - a single kingdom where immortal beings dwell, the kingdom accessed through water, mists and through the síd. What about it and how does it fit (or not) into the picture you described? Can it be that the “many isolated pocket worlds” concept of the síd was a later misconception / misunderstanding by the Christian scribes of the ancient lore?
Bro I just came from watching your mari lwyd video. I love these man, Thanks for putting these out.
no problem
Ha! Another one I missed when you released it. I love how detailed this is. thank you!
You're welcome, Kris.
Great video. Would love to hear your thoughts on the 3 Ysbrydnos.
Your commentary about the possible belief of having access to Annwfn at particular times of year made me think of the Ysbrydnos.
Yes, they are clearly linked. Communication between this realm and Annwfn is easier on those nights. It's quite a big subject in Welsh folklore though, so I'll put it on the list of future videos but it may need more than one!
Very well explained. Thank you!
You're welcome.
This is a superb video which laymanizes typically inaccessible descriptions perfectly!
Really supported my essay (don't worry, it was referenced accordingly) Thank you!
Glad it was helpful.
This is really insightful. For almost two years I’ve been working on a novel baised off of Irish, Scottish, welsh, and Manx mythology and I’m having it take place in what I’m naming the “Otherealm” before the Tuatha de danan (sorry if spelling is wrong) Settled Ireland.
My motto is only throw away accuracy for coolness. But it would be nice to hear what you assume the otherworld could look like.
This novel has been a passion project I’ve been carefully handcrafting. When I’m finished with the first draft I’d love to get some suggestions to make it more accurate where possible
I suppose the natural conclusion to draw from the discussion above would be to view the very human depiction of the otherworld as a canvas upon which those with cultural influence / dominance project themselves. To this day, the 'Otherworld' exists in a modern cultural context that defines it according to those with influence.
@@CelticSource have you ever seen Under the Skin (2013) by Jonathan Glazier /Michel Faber? be interesting to hear your thoughts if you have - i see very ancient Scottish Gaelic and wider Celtic motifs underscoring its superficially modern themes
Make sure to come back here and tell us where we can read the drafts, this sounds interesting!
Where are you from? You wouldn't be stealing another culture for profit would you?
Interesting. as I am Welsh and Irish.
Excellent thought provoking topic and contents; especially for me as a Yoga and Meditation teacher based in Gaeltacht centred on Ballinskelligs, County Kerry. In the early Sanskrit texts (300BCE and dating maybe a millennium before that) Meditation has the well known concept of sitting in an auspicious venue and leaving the normal world of things and places, for another world of transcend awareness. The meditation practices in the Proto-Indian-European world (Yoga) had a focus on Siddhis (special powers) arising from meditation. In this context I was very interested in what you said about ‘sit’ (and sitting) being the origin of the Early Irish concept of Otherworld. BTW… Christianity has always had the concept of sitting in meditation and entering a transcendent World closer to God.
I think we do need to consider these more 'anthropological' ideas when talking about such things. Position and place appear to be really important to these ancient sites at least.
ábhar den scoth... excellent content. Recently discovered your channel.
thank you, diolch
I like your detailed explanations. can you make a video on history of fairy tales or tell me why fairytale are called fairy tales. Also what is the deference between a myth and fairytale?
I hadn't realised that the "an-" suffix in welsh was an intensifier, thought it was a negation, like "un-" i.e. annwfn = un-world.
You speak about Welsh and Irish Otherworld traditions (and they're very well explained, informative, interesting and helpful) but what is know of Scottish Otherworld traditions? How do they differ?
Very roughly speaking, Scots are Gael (Irish) tribes which settled parts of Northern Ireland and Scotland - the Kingdom of Dál Riada, the part of which finally became Alba (Scotland) around IX century, already Christianised by that time. Before adopting Christianity they possessed the same worldviews as the inhabitants of Ireland because all of them were the same people and had the same culture. So there can’t be “Scottish Otherworld” per se, there is only Gaelic / Irish one.
Although no one knows whether the Picts, with whom the Irish settlers mingled on the lands of contemporary Scotland, had any concept of an “Otherworld” and if they did, what was it, unfortunately.
@@altanerener7315 Thanks for your response!
I understand that a variety of areas in the landscape such as certain water source could be considered focal points of Celtic worship, is there a reason why the other world type concept seems to be mainly focused on underground spaces rather than other places where worship had been traditionally conducted?
I'm not sure if it's mainly focussed on underground spaces, most of the explicit examples of Annwfn in mediaeval Welsh literature are-bye no means underground. For example all instances in the Four Branches. Islands out at sea are also another favourite metaphor found in both Welsh and Irish myth. Annwfn as an underground realm appears to be something that belongs to the Welsh folk tradition as opposed to the tradition of classical literature.
I wonder if there's an etymological link between Sith and the Norse Seithr. I've heard Seithr is connected to the word seeth, as in boilng.
Interesting. I don't know. I'll have to find a Norse specialist to ask! Thanks for the intriguing lead though.
Interesting possibility. According to wiktionary they're all accounted for in separate stems:
Sí
From Middle Irish side, from Old Irish síd (“fairy mound”), from Proto-Celtic *sedos, *sīdos (“mound (inhabited by fairies)”), from Proto-Indo-European *sēds, *sed- (“seat”).
Seiðr
From Proto-Germanic *saidaz (“magic, charm”), from Proto-Indo-European *soytós ("magic").
Seethe
From Middle English sethen, from Old English sēoþan, from Proto-Germanic *seuþaną (“to seethe, boil”), from Proto-Indo-European *h₂sewt-, *h₂sut-, *h₂sew- (“to move about, roil, seethe”).
@@EdricoftheWeald the "mound" part is also interesting, because the Alfar (Norse elves) are associated with burial mounds.
They seem to have a lot of similarities. Could be cultural synchronization
I don't think so. Adam Hyllested in 'The Precursors of Celtic and Germanic' connects seiðr etymologically with the Proto-Celtic '*soito-' (sorcery) and Proto Germanic 'saiða'. He considers it to be probably identical to the PIE '*soi-to', or 'string', 'rope', and derived from '*sei-i', or 'to bind'. This aligns well with the work of ON scholars such as Eldar Heide and archaeologists such as Leszek Gardela and Neil Price that underlines the connections between some forms of seiðr and spinning (yarn).
Having said that though, there is a connection with elves - a very deep one IMO. In the sagas and romances we see this partnership between elves and witches (the Ynglingasaga account of Freyja the goddess who taught seiðr to the æsir as sacrificial priestess at the mound cult of her elf brother being the best example). I also don't believe it to be a coincidence that one of the cognate words for seiðr in OE, 'sīden' was often collocated with 'ælf' as 'ælfsīden'. I recommend reading Alaric Hall's 'Elves in Anglo-Saxon England' for the most complete treatment of elves in relation to magic and magically originated sicknesses.
Why can't we view Annwfn as a unified Otherworld, within which there a many separate and distinct strongholds, or Sidh? Each Sidh being the abode of those dwelling (or imprisoned) there. And only at certain times, or under certain circumstances can one cross from one Sidh to another, whether by traversing through our world, or through Annwfn?
because that doesn't appear to be what the tradition tells us, if you can only cross from one mound to the next at Samain, they are by their nature separate
very interesting , to me , its Sid, "Shee" and here its a very local thing with accents included . meaning to me would be "entrance to" where the bright ones are ,
all of our celtic cuntures are linked , maybe through the druids .
thank you , your search has a meaning
Thanks for comment Full Irish, very interesting you understand it as entrance. Of course, regional meaning is important to preserve, apologies for flattening it somewhat in my clumsy way. It happens a lot round these parts too.
@@CelticSource your content is important to the grand thinking of things .I was at dowth today ,our culture is grand .my personal beliefs about the Sid is the builders made it for creation a birthing place to concive kings , through close family unions .
I think the closest think to the gates of hell we have here is the cave of cats or the cave of battles ,the sSid of the morogan .
I'm mot an academic, just a pre history fan , its has no borders, qe are of one tribe in these islands
Maybe Caer Sidi being a way for a welsh bard to explain to irish Dyfed kingdom ruler/s about Annwfn in relation to their own irish knowledge of sidh. i have no idea about chronology, prolly throws my hypothesis out the window :)
I am interested in etymology and your other content, but it's mostly over my head and I just like the sound of your voice. When I have my next period of restlessness in the wee hours, in addition to drinking some more chamomile, I will have to listen to another of your lectures, sorry . . .
Well, at the very least, I can keep speaking!
Dr.,
Wouldn't the Otherworlds need to be connected in some way? The House of Donn is where many believed the dead landed first. There to be sorted to their proper destination.
It depends what you think the function of the otherworld is, or whether all otherworlds are the same.
I believe that both, Old Irish: Síd, and Modern Irish: Sí, are pronounced as "shee".
Don't think so. It's absorbed into Welsh as 'siddi'. I'm following the Patrick Simms-Williams book mentioned in the video, and I think he references Hamp and O'Cathasaig. Let me know if you find a better source on that.
@@CelticSource
So, the SH sound was a late development in the irish language?
@@elgranlugus7267 According to wiktionary, Old Irish 'síd' was pronounced /sʲiːð/ in the nominative-accusative and /sʲiːðʲ/ in the dative. Since the spellings originate from that period, it makes sense it would originally have been quite phonetic.
@@CelticSource Oh my god Siddhars are ancient Tamil beings the enlightened beings i heard they have super powers that human can't imagine, please reply I have more to say
That other world is reachable through nirvana the enlightenment
That is who you call siddi or Siddhe
@@EdricoftheWeald
Thanks!
Youd realise you were a Dr simply based on the fact you don't say "Too-ath-a" haha ! Good video thank you!
Ha! Yes, but I do still have the old habit of pronouncing the 'th' from years reading the name long before I knew how to pronounce it!
Actually, in Old Irish TH was pronounced as English TH in “think”, “math”, so if one pronounces SÍD as “see-the”, (s)he has to be consistent and pronounce TUATHA as “too-ah-tha” (with θ sound in the last syllable), that is what any Dr acquainted with Old Irish would do )))
Otherwise, it sounds like a hodgepodge of Old and Modern Irish - pronouncing some terms in contemporary manner, others - as they were pronounced in the source language )))
Also, in Old Irish Mac Óc is pronounced “mahk ohg”, not “mahc ohc” (since C in “mac” was clearly pronounced as “k”, which survived in Modern Irish, and which is testified by some scribes writing this word as “macc” to show the “k” pronunciation of the last consonant. Óc (óg in Modern Irish) was always written with one “c”, and inter-vocal / final “c”s in Old Irish pronounced as “g” (as in “green”, “goose”).
@@altanerener7315 sidhe is pronounced "she" so no.
Where did you get that old irish pronounced th that way?
Edit: also it wouldn't be "too-ah-tha" it would be "too-ha"... and I'm fluent in irish by the way..
Oh my god Siddhars are ancient Tamil beings the enlightened beings i heard they have super powers that human can't imagine, please reply I have more to say
That other world is reachable through nirvana the enlightenment
That is who you call siddi or Siddhe
Not sure if the Sanskrit term siddhi can be traced back to the same Indo-European root sed-*, I can't find that connection myself, would be interesting to find out though. We would need an historical linguist to tell us.
@@CelticSource I am talking about Tamil words that are still called in same name but with minor changes.
. Siddhars are only known in Tamil civilization and their other names are siddi, Siddhe like that.
From what i learnt is the siddhars from here were there in European lands before even civilizations started in Europe.
Goddess Morrigan is nothing but Lord Murugan of Tamil civilization. And Pashupati seal of indus exact same seal found in Europe too i think you call him as Lord of the animals.
@@CelticSource en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhar
Look at "Powers of Siddhas" section
@@karthikdon5 The current thinking (which could be wrong but it's unlikely), is that words both in Sanskrit and other Indo-European language would share a similar etymology. Tamil, although not Indo-European, could have received a similar word through a Sanskrit influence. Otherwise we would have to dream up some other, totally unique reason for why there is a similarity. Again, a historical linguist who had studied, both Dravidian and Indo-European languages would be able to tell us for certain.
@@gwilmor No its the other way around Sanskrit absorbed alot of tamil words and tamil culture is very old and our gods been worshipped in different names all along the world, one example Goddess Morrigan.
Siddi is Siddhars, Siddhars used to do meditation at caves or mounds any place that is secluded, there seems to be major history been hidden from masses.
Egyptian civilization also it's Hieroglyphs are pure Tamil likewise recently found evidences in Tamil Nadu matches with Indus Valley scripts, mayan civilization is said to be tamil civilization, Tamil was a global culture once i.e atleast 11k years back.....not only this but Slavic language has its roots from tamil, why i am saying this is tamil a global civilization once....
Sanskrit had alot of tamil influence.
*Sed 'Sit' Latin word Sedes seat, abode: reminds me of the Bible v verse Psalm 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God;
There is a conceptual problem with only looking at the otherworld through the eyes of bookish scholars and ancient etymology. The first problem is not realising that the "otherworld" is still with us today and can be accessed at certain locations and times. Once a person has experienced the otherworld then the words being used to inadequately describe it are moot. I experienced the "otherworld" at Glastonbury in England on 3/3/3 by accident. I thought that the date would be on the calendar of every neo-druid in England and that there would be a big party at Glastonbury Tor. I was wrong. I travelled around 100 miles to get there at night along the St Michael ley line. It was a beautiful clear starlit night when I set out from London but that changed to thick green fog when I arrived at Glastonbury. When I went around a roundabout I could not find the exit roads and had to drive round the outside very slowly. Once I was on the right road I drove down the middle of the road very slowly and even so I crossed a T junction and nearly hit the gate opposite. Luckily there was a brass sign on the gate pointing to the Tor. I arrived at the Tor only because I found the disabled parking markings on the road. I set off wearing three coats because the fog was freezing. I had a torch and just followed the well worn path seeing just a few feet ahead and all I could see around me was thick mist. I arrived at the top and there was an icy gale and no party. So I said a prayer or two, which was very difficult under the weather conditions.
In the morning it was light but there was no sun and just thick grey clouds and fog. I set off back down the path I had come up the night before and it was still thick fog. I soon reached the bottom of the hill and to my amazement , the sun was shining, there was no breeze, the butterflies were flitting about the field and the birds were happily singing but I was in the wrong place as I had arrived at a different side of the hill to where my car was parked. So I thought the quickest way to my car was to go back up the hill and down again. I left the sunny field and after climbing less that a hundred feet I was back in white mist. I kept going and when I reached the top and it was icy cold with a gale force wind, dark black clouds scudding across the tor and think fog everywhere and only the owl and pigeons for company. I decided to go down a different path in the opposite direction as I thought that my car would be down there. I set off down the path in the mist and after a short while I ended up in the same field, where the sun was shining, the butterflies were flitting from flower to flower, the birds were singing and there was no breeze. I did not understand what had happened."That's impossible I thought". I looked at the Tor at I could see its dark shadow through some light mist and I thought the weather must have changed rapidly as I went down the hill. So I decided to go back up the hill again. I had not climbed very far when I was back in the mist which got thicker and darker until I reached the top, where there was a gale force wind, no sun and dark clouds flitted by. I sat down very tired wondering what to do. Then I heard some voices as some other hikers came up the path. When they got to the top the mist cleared away within just a few minutes and I could see my car down below at the bottom of the hill.
My experience is compatible with the legends of the otherworld in that area and the experience was of course completely impossible.
undertale