Macintosh HyperDrive 10 (back together again)
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- The Mac 512k is fully up and running with the GCC HyperDrive 10 MFM internal hard drive.
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Part 1: • Macintosh 512K with an...
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It looks like you have one of the earliest HyperDrives. These were originally installed *exclusively* at GCC headquarters, largely because of the complexity of installation and their understanding with Apple re: warranties. Later, they made it possible for authorized service centers to do the installation so that people did not have to ship their Macs to Massachusetts and wait a week or two to get it back. Fun fact: the HyperDrive was already in development as a side project while GCC was still focused on developing games for Atari. They'd already taken a prototype out to Cupertino to show it to Jobs, who informed them Apple was working on a HDD Mac but it would be at least 2 years down the road. Predictably, he hated the fan and wasn't interested in outsourced hardware development. But apparently he thought it would be good for Mac sales in the interim, thus the tacit approval of this 3rd party mod. When Atari was bought out, the game projects were suddenly cancelled and GCC management pivoted immediately to focus on the HyperDrive rollout to keep the company going.
That's a fascinating bit of history! Funny that Apple's first machine with an internal drive ended up having a fan too. LOL! I can only imagine how much fighting Jobs did to not have a fan -- and I guess the engineers won.
Back in the Mac SE days, we had a GCC laser printer at home that used a SCSI interface. It was so much cheaper because the Mac did all the resterization and then transferred the image directly to the printer and laser. Interesting stuff as a way to create a cheap but still good laser printer, so clearly GCC was a pretty ingenious.
Yes, I think the story of how they got into the laser printer business next is on the internet somewhere, but they saw a clear opportunity with the introduction of a low cost laser print engine for OEM use. An interesting parallel between the HyperDrive add-on design and GCC's earliest roots is that they got their start as a company with Super Missile Attack - a unique plug-in/clip-on piggyback circuit board that they sold direct to arcade console owners (Missile Command). Also, GCC software engineers were so enamored of the new Mac GUI that they ported over and released Super Missile Attack as their first (only?) game for the Macintosh, even before HyperDrive was in development.
@@carlg5838 Do you have a link to the Mac version of Super Missile Attack? I can't find it anywhere.
20:30 "This is just ridiculous, if this thing breaks I'm never opening this computer up again, it's just gonna be a doorstop" - my thoughts every time I work on one of my Compact Macs
Compact Macs can be a harsh mistress for sure
I was the one who uploaded the disk images, manual, and (partial) installation manual to Macintosh Garden (and the floppy disk labels & bucket sticker, if you're so inclined to print them out.) I'm really glad someone actually found them useful. :)
You should try version V3R1, and if that doesn't work, try V2R1. If you're running a stock Macintosh 512k, V3R2 may not work. It specifically states in the manual that it's only intended for the 512ke and Plus with a 128K ROM.
HyperDrive isn't too uncommon, but a WORKING HyperDrive is. So cool to see yours working. Mine is still in its factory box, I've been waiting for the perfect 512k in which to install it. Preferably, I'd like to use a CNC to cut out windows like in the picture of the Macworld demo machine.
Regarding the missing "Format" button, in some Mac software, "advanced" features are sometimes hidden by default, requiring you to hold down either ⌘ (Command) ⌥ (Option) ⇧ (Shift) or a combination of the above (i.e. Command+Option) while (in your case) pulling down the "Test/Initialize" menu and choosing the "Initialize Disk" menu option. Give that a try and that missing "Format" button might magically appear.
Well, the number keys to select the SCSI-ID is in fact correct and documented. Never worked for me, but it is in the code.. :D
Just noticed: It's Command-Option-Shift+# to select the ID, command-option-shift-delete to deselect selected (PRAM) ID
That MFM Card + Parallel zip drive was an amazing MacGyver solution
More like a Prof. Hubert Farnsworth doomsday device :-)
Always remember to park the heads on these old drives before shutdown. ALWAYS
Absolutely! The wisdom I received back in the day was not just for preventing mechanical damage if you were to move the machine, but also to mitigate any spurious signals from the heads as the controller powers down. My Amstrad 1512 (XT clone, so different OS) had a hardcard and I used to have a 'park.com' application that I used to run before I turned the machine off.
Adrian Black
Why not make one then? I doubt youd need more than 20 lines of code.
Running the shutdown command on the special menu likely parks the drive automatically or it may have auto parking built into the controller. Mac’s never used MFM hard drives so hopefully the company who made this fiasco included parking somewhere in their software.
@@adriansdigitalbasement There's a very slim chance the drive has auto-park (but it was a surprisingly late feature). For example Seagate had the feature on an MFM drive from 1991 had auto-park. ftp://ftp.seagate.com/techsuppt/mfm/st251.txt So other manufacturers were doing it on MFM drives.
@@_zzpza yep pretty much also any voice-coil MFM HDD (such as the ST-4096 [80MB 5.25 Full height monster] and some old Microscience hard drives) could automatically park itself as the servo retracted the heads.
I never had a Macintosh from that era, but I was fascinated by the tear-down and repair that you performed! You have amazing skill.
I'm so glad that all our modern hardware doesn't require any sort of prying
Prying is a software function these days.
In the late 90's I worked in a shop that did warranty service on all the big PC brands. It was when Dell and Micron used the same case, except for minor front panel differences. The side was held on by one plastic headed thumbscrew, a latch top and bottom, and a huge amount of friction. The first few times removing the panels on those were very difficult. I kept a special tool on the bench just for them - a claw hammer. Loosen the captive thumbscrew. Push the latches inward and slide the panel as far as it would allow, which was *just enough* to keep the latches disengaged. It was also just enough room to insert the hammer's claw between the back lip of the panel and the back of the case. POP! No struggle, no marks on the case. I took to calling those the claw hammer case. On site service call for a Micron or Dell? Hammer went with me.
@@greggv8 literal prying
Loved the VHS intro. Loved the fact that you just don't give up on this little guy. :)
Ah, the comforting whine of an MFM hard drive :-) Takes me straight back to when I used an XT in the mid 90's (happy days). I love the mod and the fact that someone made it in the first place. How exciting it must have been at the time. Great series and I hope the drive works for ages. Cheers.
Yes when I was 6 switching disks on a mac like that was so fun!!! 6 times just to run paint program!!! I wish I had 2 drives too. haha Love it!!!
To avoid that, you'd simply needed to have a barebones bootable system disk with the app (the paint program or in Adrian's case, the Hyperdrive app) on the very same disk. But then on a 400K drive it would be very complicated.
My SE/30 has an old 230MB Quantum ProDrive in it that I installed in 1998. Every time I turn it on I wonder how much longer it's got...... it's still kickin' as of today :)
Those Quantum ProDrives are quite reliably. There's only one problem plaguing the series: When they park their heads, the head stack hits a rubber bumper endstop underneath the platters. This rubber bumper tends to deteriorate and turn back into crude oil. As a result the heads stick to the bumper, with the head actuator not having enough force to free them.
Who could ever thumb down this nice work??
It was good to hear the frustration in your voice as you worked on this funky Mac. I can totally relate. I've worked on computers professionally for 30 years, and recently started getting into some retro tech. It's unbelievably frustrating sometimes! But two great things about it: it's more satisfying once you get it working, and it makes you appreciate how easy computers are to work on now.
DUDE. You used a Compudyne to image that drive?
...You are officially my hero.
I have that exact Compudyne 386 and haven't been able to find any info on it at all. I'd love to know what the dip which settings are.
Well done you have infinite patience and are good just to watch. You even show the fails and we see how you overcame them.
Yes please a drive repair/rebuild video!
My first computer had no HDD and only one floppy disk drive. So swapping floppies was a recurring theme. :D
This introduction brought to you by the year 1990! :D Glad to see you return to this one, man!
I ❤ this channel, Adrian Black you should have a medal for your work in preserving old computers 🥇👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I had a Radius Accelerator on a MacPlus. Yes, you set it against the rail, then bend it out. After 15~20 tries, the mother board got smoother, and the side bracket got smoother. You did very well. Later, I had a 512k Fat mac 1Mb, with the daughter card. Same thing.
Good hack. FYI.. the bad sound was the drive head stepper pulling to zero to reset the head position. Not a bad noise.
Back in the day when I was running a BBS, there was a utility floating around that would allow for a second HD controller in your PC. Specifically you had to tape over the IRQ contact on the card edge, boot and have the driver in config.sys and you'd get a 3rd and 4th drive through PIO access. I used it to support an MFM drive beside a couple IDE drives in my 'SAN', aka a PC booting to DOS and running Interlink to share the drives via LPT to the BBS machine.
Also back into day, people uses he same tape over contact trick to use and switch between multiple monitor sets color/monochrome on separate cards too.
interlink and intersvr were great! every once in a while I still use them with a parallel cable to transfer data between old machines.
Adrian Black 4 hard drives, I could never understand why the IBM world went the way it did with floppy drive support. prior to that 4 floppies was very normal and common, just setting switches or jumpers on each drive to match the number it should be and respond to commands over the straight flat cable from the controller.
It seems someone in the IBM world felt it too difficult to change jumpers, so they messed up the system by twisting the cable so you can leave the drive alone, and each plug on the cable, which now is limited to 2-drive support, is wired differently to place the second drive signal on the 1st drive pins for the 2nd drive to work.
"enter System Password" .... * types System Password * ooooooooooooomgg!
Putting that thing back together looked like a nightmare. I’m glad I have my HD20 :)
I like this video, great that everything works. If you ever get where the drive doesn’t work, just keep all the parts, that Mac 512e is definitely a museum piece’. I worked at Apple dealers for 9 years, And I remember having to spread the bottom of the chassis for some machines that had add in hardware and that was the only way to get the motherboard out. It made me cringe seeing you do that and I’m sure I cringed a bit when doing it myself. I’m sure there’s not many of those old drives still working so it’s great to see one in operation.
if your scsi controller has an external bus with db25 connector (or 50 with adapter) you can hook up an original scsi iomega zip drive and boom, from scsi to scsi with faster imaging speeds than parallel (and I think more reliable because of the scsi comm protocol)
And YES!, we want to see the HD overhaul!
Back in the early 90s I had one of these and sold all the parts out of it. I had glass cut and used silicone to create a tank. It had scenery, gravel, plants, air pump and a battery powered fluorescent light. Kept neons in it on my desk at work.
I remember I modified the front of the case so it would just slip off if you pulled it forward for easy maint.
Thanks for the video. The single floppy disk hell brought back many memories of hundreds of disc swaps. Talk about long seek times...
Great job! The slow and steady approach is the only way with old machines. I have an original Mac with a RAM/SCSI add-on that has a rat's nest of soldered wires. I slid the logic board out as it was meant to with much scraping and fear. I broke a couple of connections and had to repair them. I never even thought of popping the logic board out of the tracks that way.
Another machine saved, nicely done! I don't know if I'll run into retro Macs anytime soon, but that tip about the bootstrap resistor on the SMPS is priceless for anyone trying to save old machines.
Wow! This floppy swapping is crazy ridiculous! Anyway, great video!
Disk Jockey 😛
I really enjoyed this video. My first "real" computer (after a ZX-80 and a ZX-81) was a Mac 128k, later upgraded with a third-party 1024k board, 128k ROMs, and an HD20 and a second 400k floppy drive. Ran MS Word 3.01, Canvas (nice graphics program that combined the functionality of MacPaint and MacDraw, only better), Turbo Pascal (yes, they had a version for the Mac, sadly abandoned after version 1.01), and various games and lots of other stuff. Good times. 😊
21:40 The misspelt caption takes us back to the problem with the supplementary power supply: It had Volt lag.
GCC (General Computer Corporation) is the same company that created Ms. Pac-Man and the Atari 7800. One of the guys from GCC (I'm blanking on his name) spoke at PRGE 2017. I talked with him later and he told me that when they were getting ready to show this very device to Jobs, Apple engineers swore up and down that it was impossible to put a hard drive in that system. So much for impossible.
Yes please Adrian, more videos of you fixing drives!!
8:27 I really got the feeling that you wanted your last step documented here, in case you didn't make it out alive :D
Adrian's videos serve to remind me why is not a good idea to buy any vintage hardware - with stuff over 30 years old, would very likely wind up with something that has problems to where would be in water way over my head
It's true -- this old stuff can be very very difficult. Some more than others ... Like for the C64, you may just be better off buying a C64 MAXI and saving yourself the headaches. LOL
GCC! The creators of Ms. Pac-Man, Charley Chuck's Food Fight, and the Atari 7800 ProSystem console, amongst many other cool things...
Adrian: "It's all super dangerous."
Adrian, one second later: "Let's turn this on."
also, you need to make sure the hyperdrive and the card you used to format the drive in the PC use the SAME controller chip. can't low level a MFM HDD on a DTC chip and have it work on a WD 1010 or 2010, likewise other MFM chips used in other controllers (like some of the weird radio shack ones that used bit slice processors instead of a dedicated HDD controller chip)
Try opening the Hyperdrive disk utility in ResEdit. You'll be able to see all of the data structures inside the program, one of which are dialog boxes. IIRC the resource is called DLOG, which if you double click on will show the dialog box IDs and you can search for the one which is supposed to have the "format" button.
You can then see if the button actually exists and is hidden or disabled. There should be flags and such for every button and you can sometimes force them to be enabled. It's a gamble if it will work or not, I used to have to do such things for buggy applications. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and sometimes it causes erratic behavior.
You're commentary is excellent and keeps me interested
9:45 in 1996 when I bought my Pentium 75 I installed DOS, Windows 3.1, and MS Office 4.3 from floppies. That's 2 (or was it 3?) floppies for DOS, 11 floppies for Windows and 40 or so floppies for Office. And that's besides all the other floppies required for all the drivers and what not. This machine had a CD drive too, but it was still basically impossible to get any of that software on CD because they wanted to be backwards compatible. It just never stopped being annoying having to swap floppies, and even less fun when you knocked over the stack and they all fell on the floor.
Floppies were great in the early 80s when everything could fit on a single disk, but the CD really didn't come a moment too soon. And then of course we got programs and games that used multiple CDs because they too became too small
I live for this stuff. Thank you for posting!
Your description of the iterative process of making the old computer work made me laugh - I've done the same so many times, multiple trips to the parts bin, the end result a hodgepodge that is lucky to work long enough to do what is needed. If only it wasn't so fun -
As to the Hyperdrive machine - check out the MFM Emulators that are available. Pricey but brings the old iron into the 21st century - you can boot up from USB stick or Memory Card.
A hard drive would just be absolutely to making these early Mac's worthwhile. I can't imagine swapping disks like that as a normal user.
This...
Brings back a ton of memories.
Great video. I love these old MFM drives. Thanks
By the way, I have the original set of the Hyperdrive floppies fyi
"Hopefully nothing explodes?!" hahah yeah, i hope so too, Adrian!! Great video!
MacsBug was a powerful debugger/disassembler for older Macs. (Incidentally, the “Macs” in MacsBug had nothing to do with the name Macintosh.) Normally, if you pressed the Programmer’s Switch, you’d invoke a simple built-in debugger, which supported a few precious commands that didn’t let you do much. With MacsBug installed, your computer turned into a powerful development/debugging tool. You could even recover some data from a crash (i.e. a bomb screen). (You could basically dump memory contents into a file.) I loved it and had it installed on all of my machines.
“This is all super dangerous, so let’s turn this on.” Quote of the day.
I do not blame you if it becomes a door stop, that is such a iffy solution for that kit
I don't even have a Mac and I watched the whole thing. Great analysis Adrian.
Always enjoy your videos of classic old IT hardware.
21:40 - "DANGER! HIGH VOTLAGE!" - Good Avdice!
I have the same Mac 512k setup (with with GCC HyperDrive. I actually made a short video of it back in 2012 (search RUclips for "GCC HyperDrive Macintosh 512k" to see it). My power supply still works fine now in July 2019; however, it's been more than 30 years since it was made and surely time to replace the electrolytic capacitors on it. I've been working on a Mouser list over the past few day. You may wish to consider the same. Having stable power to the hard drive will help ensure it doesn't up and die one day due to a power glitch.
Like it a lot. Nice video, and yes we want to see yoy servicing a Sony floppy disk drive lol
Great to see that weird contraption back together and working :)
On these drives only the cylinders (by the amount of steps the head actuator has to do from first to last track) and the amount of heads are physically defined.
The amount of sectors every cylinder is divided into is up to the controller. On standard PC MFM controllers, it's 17 sectors per track. For most RLL controllers it would be 26. You can actually format an MFM hard drive with an RLL controller, resulting in about 50% more free space. It's up to the media quality how (long-time-) stable this combination is. RLL drives are actually the same drives as their MFM brethren, with a better (tested) quality surface medium.
Hence it's totally possible, that this Mac controller board is only using 16 sectors per track. Maybe due to a limitation of the old System 3.2 suporting only 16 sectors? Just guessing there.
On my bench is a 128k w/ 2mb Levco MonsterMac card - my family got it in 1984, and for quite a while it was just a plain 128k with no external drives... yeah, swapping floppies got old fast. Eventually we got an external 10mb hard drive (hooked to the serial port - you had to boot off of a special floppy to get it going).
yes, it would be great to see the floppy drive servicing.
When my quantum bigfoot drive failed I switched to a parallel port ZIP drive for a while. The SCSI ZIP drive is a great HDD option for Mac Plus since the machine isn't that fast to start with.
What a nightmare trying to get that 20 MB drive to work! I never personally used MFM drives, I always went with SCSI in my early equipment, and switched to IDE later on in the nineties. It was more expensive, but seemed to work much better.
There were also SCSI to MFM controllers that the first MFM drive was LUN 0, and the second MFM drive was LUN 1.
I will say it was definitely the easiest way to use an MFM drive by far! It also then allowed for more advanced features from the combined drive sub-system.
5:35 MacsBug is a low-level debugger, or machine-language monitor, that was included with the Mac system software. There have been a couple of different revisions over the years, with later ones having a much nicer UI, but on a 512k Mac, you probably have one of the earliest ones. I haven't used it in decades, but this looks like a good place to start exploring: macgui.com/news/article.php?t=485
and I thought the kaypro with its dual floppy drives was a joke, but looking at a single floppy mac, it just makes sense why all the old machines had two
Personally, this is just me I think, but I would look into an SD card replacement for the hard disk
i want to meet the person that gives your vids thumbs down , cause your vids R flawless at least from this angle
Wow that 512 is lightning fast to boot with a hard drive in it
I remember how clumsy to have two cables for MFM and RLL disk! And a lot of bad sectors with annoying custom type of head cylinder and interleave parameters.
Awesome, as always! I would love to see a video on servicing disk drives!
Dang! I've been wanting to use that camcorder effect for a while. You beat me to the punch. ;) This hard drive install was a great challenge. I thought you had it there for a sec with your ZIP drive solution. A challenge to revisit on another day, I suppose. Great try, though!
That MFM HDD: *works after 30+ years of use*
My pc hdd: *Starts to make weird noises and to freak out after 4 years of use*
To be fair, that drive hasn't gotten 30 years of use, and MFM drives (specifically ones configured as RLL) were notoriously bad. That said, i get your point about current drives, spinning hard disks never got to be a super reliable tech. Some are better than others, but overall, their death can be pretty random.
@@brianv2871 the biggest problem that seagate and other drive manufacturers had with "RLL" drives was they used the same amplifiers that they used onthe MFM drives but ran them at the edge of frequency spec or just plain out of spec, and they'd last a while then burn up . Seagate and Miniscribe also used a bad lubricant (IIRC) that could actually thicken on the platter and cause the heads to stick to the platters making the drives not spin up, seagate spent a lot of $ denying "Stiction" (Static Friction) affected their drives, a fairly reliable way to fix the seagates was to open the enclosure in a clean hood or clean room and flush the mechanism with nitrogen . it might cease to spin up eventually but allowed you to get your data off the drive and from then on you just didn't use it for anything critical.
BTW: Just a little pedantry on my part, MFM and RLL are BOTH forms of RLL (Run Length Limited) encoding, just ';RLL' using a higher frequency to read/write data, then you have the Perstor controllers using ARLL at an even highter FREQ causing drives to fail even faster.
Cool! That would have been wild to see an ST-225 working on a Mac 512k! ;)
Flat File System=MFS (Macintosh File System). MFS doesn't really have support for directories (since it was meant for floppies), one of the programs you tried to use were developed before HFS (and then got a warning slapped on it)
Great Video! I have one when I was in College, good all days.
Anyone know how to adjust tracking in RUclips? 😁
CTRL + ALT + Left or Right Arrow 😈
Fake "VHS camcorder" digital video effects aren't even remotely close to how the real thing looks. And it isn't even that difficult to find a working VHS camcorder and capture video from it, as this video demonstrates: ruclips.net/video/9hF7ymgNM_o/видео.html
Reach behind your monitor...there should be V-HOLD and H-HOLD knobs. Keep turning them until the picture is stable... Wait....you mean your monitor doesn't have V-HOLD and H-HOLD?
Alt-F4
Apple, making products which are a pain in the butt to maintain for decades.
Anytime I see that Macintosh I always think of the movie Blank Check.
Fantastic video- did this with my first Mac in 1985 and parents thought I was crazy! Thank you for a wonderful trip down memory road! Are you on Patreon?
Thanks and unfortunately I'm not at this time. Just under too many time constraints at this time but I would anticipate at some time in the future I will do Patreon. :-)
@@adriansdigitalbasement Thank you for replying! If there is ever a way to support please let me know!
HIGH VOTLAGE! 😀Thanks again for another amazing video man.
@@adriansdigitalbasement sounds very fancy and french to me :)
Of course! I would like to see all the videos about the Sony disk drives ^^
I really adore your patience. Nice video!
Looks like your bios is using base 0 for cyls, perhaps sectors too? A type 1 is 306 cyls, 4 heads, 17 sectors per track, OEM part is ST-412
You are really lucky getting another mfm-controller to read your drive. There are many different raw level formats outthere, and most controller cannot read disks formatted with another controller.
my thoughts too. I know I has three different types of MFM controllers in the XT days I would swap around in hopes one of them would be compatible when working with some else's hard drive to recover data.
It's not only the MFM controller itself, it also depends on the way it's used. When looking at the datasheets you have different variants, slightly modified circuits etc. There are hundred ways why it'll go wrong, so in this case a good portion of luck is involved.
I also remember my first ST01R-controller, when i realized i can upformat my old MFM-disk from 17 to 26 sectors and get 32 instead of 21MB :-)
Hello adrian, just wanted to say. love the videos. they provided lots of entertainment all the way up here in chilly canada. this is such an interesting setup / find you have there, i would be really interested to see the next time you go into this computer a little more detail about how the hard drive board is connected to the cpu. as you had mentioned in the video that it was some type of clip onto the cpu to link in the hard drive. also i am wondering what dos software were you using to backup and image the mfm hard drive. i have a similar type hard drive in a odd system that i wanted to get a complete backup made that was further then just connecting a zipdrive to the printer port and doing a copy of the files across from the hard drive to the zip disk. if you could point me into the right direction of some good software or even a copy of the programs you were using that would be greatly appreciated.
GCC were great, weren't they? They created Ms. Pac Man, along with some other great video games, then some awesome enhancements for different devices, then printers.
"These errors are very nonsensical!" Welcome to Mac OS pre-System 7. :D
I bet disk swapping on one of these never got old.
The disk swapping would not have been as extreme was it was in this example in most normal use situations because the software disk you used would boot the computer. So you would only be swapping disks while saving or loading your work.
Man... Can I be your apprentice??? Lol I find all this stuff fascinating!
Reassembly reminded me of the "MrPuzzle" channel
Yep, a video about servicing the drive would be nice :-)
First phone support question: "Is it plugged in?"
That was a lot of "DJ-ing". Good job! :)
Always entertaining, and informative. Thanks, Adrian!
Yes, I'd like to see the servicing of the disk drive.
Hi Adrian! Another cool video, I really enjoy the old Mac stuff. Most important question: What is DNR @ Eight? I assume some kind of foodie program?
Yes, I would like to see a video for servicing the Sony disk drive.
If at first you don't screw down the hard drive, pry pry again.
I understand that the machine was powered off for a few days, as you said. You felt comfortable handling it and not getting shocked from the CRT?
You call it "MFM", but that is the encoding technique. The interface is called ST506