Why are there Silent Protagonists in JRPGs?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2021
- Silent protagonists have been in JRPGs since the beginning of time... or as long as they've been around at least. In the genre's earliest titles, a self-insert silent protagonist made perfect sense. As the generations moved forward and with graphics improving though, is this still the case these days? This video analyzes the pros/cons of silent protagonists, along with my personal opinion on the concept in modern gaming along with some of my favorite examples of both silent and non-silent protagonists.
Songs Appearing in Order
Unseen Sounds - Rose of May (lofi remix) • lofi nostalgia #1 | Ro...
Lofi Lia - Secret of the Forest (lofi lia remix) • Chrono Trigger - Secre...
Jiai - The Days When My Mother Was There (lofi remix) / just-kurisu
theysay. - Shimmer theysayprod.bandcamp.com/
Coffee Date & GameChops - Dearly Beloved remix • Dearly Beloved (Kingdo...
Thanks for watching everyone! As always, links to our Patreon/Instagram/Twitter are below for those that wish to follow or support us there.
- - LINKS - -
(When available, we use affiliate links and may earn commission!)
Equipment we use to make our videos:
► Audio-Technica AT4040 Microphone: amzn.to/4f6C48Z (Amazon)
► Panasonic GH6 w/ 12-60mm Leica lens: amzn.to/3zNQ1IF (Amazon)
Patreon: / gamingbroductions
Instagram: / gamingbroductions
Twitter: / gbroductions
Edited by: Evan Pierson
Written and Narrated by: Corbin Pierson
'Til next time everyone!
#SilentProtagonists #JRPGs #Persona 
Игры
The absolute best silent protagonist I've seen is Lea from Crosscode. She actually can't speak, and it really gets in the way of her trying to save the world. Her friends struggle with it, she gets depressed because of it, but she figures out ways of expressing herself anyway.
about the "silentness" of Mario in the Super Mario RPGs - I think that being silent doesn't mean the MC can't express in any way their feelings or any other thing they want to say; otherwise Mario isn't a silent protagonist at all, since in Mario&Luigi and Paper Mario he expresses himself with noticeable physical reactions.
Yeah the Mario RPGs always did a really great job with the whole 'silent' protagonist thing I felt. As you mentioned he wasn't truly silent as he still showed a lot of animated reactions to events in the game. For the most part I much prefer this style over the completely blank and silent protagonist that some other RPGs did
Mario & Luigi and their RPG series aren’t silent, they’re just Italian.
Tbh, I think I don’t vibe much with it, I just can’t feel the whole “you are supposed to see yourself in it and pretend the story is about you”. 95% of the time, I relate much more with a normal protagonist than a silent one and that missing 5% is like Persona and Zelda.
I don’t see how people can self insert into stories. I love Link in BOTW, and liked how he was silent, but I never imagined myself as him. He was his own person with own narrative
yeah, it can be a bit weirder to think of when the rpg is third person, when I play games like Baldurs Gate 3 or a Dragon Age game, i try to think of what type of person i want to play as and try to act them out (the character i had made up) in the game world.
but only the first dragon age game and bg3 have silent protags, and i am glad bioware made the change for Dragon Age as it helps the stories Bioware wants to tell imo
It is sometimes kinda weird when protagonists are silent when you're actually controlling an entire party anyway (but only one of the heros doesn't really speak). I guess it's one of those things where they want to show actions speak louder than words or something?
In other news, I randomly stumbled on this channel with the relaxing music video, and now I'm totally wanting to dive back into some old JRPGs I never finished or starting a new one. I haven't played video games much in years, haha. Life is a cycle? I would blame you, but you have such a cute cat I can't stay mad!
Yep, and to me it seems even more jarring in modern gaming with good graphics where you can actually see all the other characters move their mouths and hear them speak except for the main character who just sits there all mute. In retro games it doesn't really bother me since the graphics are so old school and there's usually no voice acting anyway.
Haha the cycle of life! No better time than the present to dive back into some old classics. And it's ok you can just blame the cat instead, we all know she's the one truly at fault here
This is a keen observation. It didn't bother me that Link was silent in Breath of the Wild, but it DID bother me in Age of Calamity, where every other character I controlled spoke non-stop.
I do love a well voiced character with expression. Many of my favorite games are voiced. However I think I prefer the silent protagonist. With games like Undertale or Zelda (botw) it makes it easy to feel like that story is about you, which is something unique to video games. Maybe I’m a little selfish for this, but I love the self-insertion. I feel like I am apart of that world and I’m not just pretending to be someone else. I do be having escapist tendencies
I hear you there. I will say Undertale did a fantastic job with a silent protagonist as it really works well with that kind of game. I can't even really imagine it working without one tbh as it was integral to the concept of the narrative. I think it being more of an old school game in looks/design helps with this too
Agreed! I really like games with silent protagonist since it’s feels like you having an adventure!
Eh, I have played a lot of games with voiced protags and could still feel like i went on a journey as well, like with Dragon Age 2 and Inqusition
@@channel45853 truuuuu great game
My favorite game is Golden Sun, but I will say it does the whole silent protagonist thing weird. Because in The Lost Age Isaac does talk, but in The Lost Age you play as Felix, who did talk in the first game. It makes it really hard to project yourself onto both characters, because both characters have sort of opposing goals and established personalities. I will say however, I kind of like how Golden Sun Dark Dawn handles the silent protagonist, because A. The plot more revolves around Sveta, who does talk, and B. Whenever Matthew does talk, it's usually shown that he swears nonstop, which is just hilarious to me. If we ever get Golden Sun 4 and it continues the story with a different main character , I hope they portray Matthew as swearing a bunch.
That is an interesting example regarding Golden Sun 1/2 and how they handle Isaac/Felix talking in those games. Not very consistent from a narrative perspective so that is a little jarring. I never got around to playing Dark Dawn (outside of the first few hours or so at least) so I need to go back and give that one some more time one of these days as I really love the first 2 games
@@GamingBroductions There are people who want to pretend as if Dark Dawn didn't happen, but I liked it and it had some great ideas for how to progress the Golden Sun series, although it had some problems. First off I will say the 3d DS models obviously do not hold up as well as the GBA spritework, but some of the art direction for summons was really cool, and Boreas was a massive improvement. I like how the world of Weyard has problems as consequences from the ending of The Lost Age, which were foreshadowed in The Lost Age itself. And most of the new playable characters are good, except for Rief and Tyrell who are pretty much worse versions of their parents. Sveta is probably my favorite Golden Sun character now. But the main problems with Dark Dawn is that it does not have as smooth a difficulty curve as the first two games, there are several spikes in the game you will not be prepared for. And worse, there are a bunch of places you visit once and can't return to, for little to no story reason, and to make matters worse there are missable djinn and summons in these areas. And I will say while I liked the characters, the story had issues, in that it was a little too bleak. For example, there are some sidequests where you get an item from dying characters, which could very easily have been changed that you save these characters and are rewarded with the items. Also I don't like the villains as much.
This happened in their previous shining force 3 and its frankly just bad. Its definitely a criticism of the game I feel is totally valid.
Silent protagonists can work if they have a great ensemble cast. Said cast also has not be one where the silent protagonist has no flaws and can do no wrong (harem games are pretty bad for this), it never feels like you have a proper connection to them. Choices can be great but usually with linear JRPGs and games in general, choice games are really just giving you the illusion of choice since you usually end up at the same ending regardless. If you're going to give me choices then at least make said choices impactful on the game, characters and story.
I think I find a gold mine of content, time to watch every single one of your videos.
Love to hear that. Hope you enjoy the binge 👍
What they said!
THANK YOU! I have been wanting to make a video about this subject too! I truly believe the silent protagonist is a bit outdated UNLESS silence can be included into the Narrative. I think the only way to relieve the Silent Protag trope is a few ways.
1). EVERYONE is silent and the game revolves around silent story telling
2). Narrative reason as to WHY the protag doesn't talk
3). Customizing the character and choosing Dialogue that influences how other characters see them/Us.
There was a time when the silent protagonist was needed but now the Trope needs to be handled with more care and tactic when it comes to narrative immersion.
I don't care for silent protagonists either. The way to make it work for me is to add lots of choices into the game, especially if those choices effect the story. By having choices it seems like the main character is a contributing part of the narrative instead of just being swept along by it.
I agree with you, but we shouldn't forget the one game that used neither of your 3 points and still did the silent protagonist right : Chrono Cross (for a reason I won't spoil).
They aren't silent to the npcs though, just us, it's always assumed the silent protagonist is responding properly in most games, there are only a handful where their silence is actually acknowledged.
I can break all of that down into just 2 things. WHERE IS THE PLAYER?
If the player is inside the game world then you want a silent protagonist. If the player is at the computer/TV, then you want a dialogue protagonist.
@@mechwarreir2 but what if some find silent protags immersion breaking? Then they don't feel like they are in the game world.
And having a silent protag doesn't automatically make your game immersive nor does having a voiced one make your game not immersive
Yeah I agree with all of your points. I don't really mind silent protagonists, especially in older JRPGs with limited character development.
However, when I think about most of the JRPGs from recent times I've enjoyed it's hard to imagine them with silent protagonists. Imagine Yakuza Like a Dragon without Ichiban as a character, who completely carries and drives the entire plot.
DQ11 and Ys 8 are two recent games with silent protagonists I've played in the last couple of years and they only really got carried because the rest of the cast is so fantastic.
Oh damn you just reminded me of how awesome Ichiban is, one of my favorites in recent years and can’t believe I forgot to talk about him. His hot-headed passionate personality and comparisons to life being a rpg was a big part of what made that game so memorable. Great example
With Ys, it's a traditional to have Adol be silent. Just like Link. However, in Ys 9 there is a part where you kinda hear Adol speak. I won't say more than that to avoid spoliers.
The more linear and story-driven the JRPG, the less sense a silent protagonist makes.
My biggest is when a developer makes a decision and then doesn't follow through.
Like I hate being able to rename Tidus because it results in the characters never saying his name
I think the naming Tidus thing was a weird carry-over from past FF games. But you are 100% right. It makes the voiced dialogue kind if awkward. And I highly doubt people would have put up much of a fuss if Square eliminated the ability to name the character.
@@fattiger6957 *MEGA SPOILERS FOR FFX BELOW*
There's a storyline reason for being able to name Tidus though. Which characters can you name in this game? The Aeons. And we learn later that Tidus and the Zanarkand-that-never-sleeps and all its inhabitants are dreams of the fayth that Yu Yevon summons from inside Sin. This is exactly what Aeons are : dreams of turned-to-stone humans (the Fayth) being given physical form by a summoner (the only thing making Tidus different from other Aeons is the fact that Sin and him had some kind of reaction when he was ejected from Dream Zanarkand - the Fayth kid says in Gagazet that he and Jecht became "much more than dreams" when they came into contact with Sin). So yeah, even though the game never explicitly says it, *Tidus is 100% an Aeon at the very start of the game,* so being able to name him like the other Aeons was brilliant. So even though it's sometimes awkward that the others call him stuff like "new guy", "star player of the Zanarkand Abes", etc, it was a very clever way to use the naming system. I don't think it would be right to get rid of it.
Adding to my Golden Sun thoughts below, I was playing a game called Nexomon Extinction recently, which has heavy influence from Pokemon, complete with silent protagonist, and I didn't think much of it, until it's revealed that your main character is actually mute, in fact there are points of the game where you can't communicate with npcs because they don't understand signing. I also think of how other genres handle this outside of JRPGs. Like Portal, and Drakengard (I know some consider it a JRPG, I usually think of it as a hacknslash) handle silent characters interestingly because it's established they don't talk in universe. Also I was thinking how Fallout added voice acting for the main character in 4, and how many people didn't like it. Similarly with Monster Hunter, the protagonist talks in Rise, which I really don't like, I dunno, just seems off.
The nexomon 2 protagonist was oddly very expressive despite being literally mute
like how he showed off the badge,took bribe from that spying boy and (heavy spoilers) how he froze that tyrant in rage.(also that password scene shows his physic abilities but coats it mainly as a fourth wall break joke).
I believe creative people will find an outlet that inspires, and For me that was video games. Having a silent protagonist allowed me to insert my own narrative, essentially enhancing the experience and motivating me for other creative work. Though I do appreciate voice acting and beautiful cinematic cutscenes I wonder if the younger version of me would have been as inspired without those narrative gaps. I'm just glad I got to grow up with these games at The crucial point in my young life.
But the thing with some games is that they have silent protagonist without the ability to really let you do anything creative with them, just a blank character who serves more as a camera man
though, rpgs usually don't have this problem, it's more when corridor shooters do it, i guess
Great video as always!
Appreciate it!
Agreed with you on literally every point. Great video dudes. Thanks again!
No problem dude, thanks for watching!
There are some RPGs with character creation/naming were the protagonist talks.
I personally do not like the silent protagonist. In certain games like Mario and Zelda they work and are iconic even.
However, one of the biggest draws for me, especially in JRPGs is storytelling. Chrono for example is a famous Silent Protagonist that I believe could have been elevated were he in a speaking role. Especially in regards to his relationship with Marle and Lucca. I also think the impact of the events following the undersea palace would have hit harder had we had a chance to get to know him.
Byleth (FE3H) and Ryu (BoF) also suffer from this.
The only time Silent Protagonists work is if you also design your own avatar, because therefore it is a representative of the player.
yeah, that's the thing for me, if you're supposed to insert yourself then why can the character only be a certain race and gender with a certain haircut?
Generally I think a silent protagonist is more of a detriment to a game's quality than anything else. There are a handful of exceptions to this rule, like Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, where Mario being silent adds to the humorous tone of the game and allows the rest of the colorful cast to stand out more. But as a whole I think the silent protagonist is a trope best left in the past, too many stories are dragged down by it. Though I will say I prefer a silent protagonist to a bland one.
Sounds like we feel pretty similarly about it overall. Agreed on taking a silent protagonist over a bland one. If you're gonna attempt to give a character a personality, at least make it one with notable and definable traits
Weird take at the end, a silent protagonist can also be bland
@@channel45853 Use your head, obviously a silent protagonist can be bland, but if the main character is only gonna say generic or annoying shit I'd rather they say nothing at all.
Yeah, overall is bad they don't try to make it inmersive in most games like by "giving" non-choises choises and no power the change the world in a significant way BUT the some gems like in growlanser 4 they do great job in making you choices impact the story.
The way you phrased Crono's varied forms of expression helped warm me up to him.
I still think he's too outlandish of a design to b a serviceable "blank slate" so he might as well speak, but you still make a fair point.
I feel you there, with a design like that it does make you wish he would have more of a personality to go with it. I guess I’m just a little more lenient towards older games doing the whole silent trope since most were doing it back then anyway, as long as they at least put some effort into making them stand out in some way
I think that after Baldur's Gate 3's success a lot of things need to be revisited about what what JRPGs fans think has their genre on life support. It shows that turn-based still works and it shows silent protagonists also work too.
The way I see it, silent protagonists work better when the player has more dialogue choices for the player to forge the PC's personality from. That's why games like Persona and Fallout worked best with that trope.
However, with a rather linear game like Suikoden, I'm starting to wonder if a voiced protagonist with his own thoughts might be better after all...
The issue is still that dialogue options are often just a reaction to something, whereas a non-silent protagonist would also state things and initiate conservations. This makes silent protagonists way too socially passive imo.
I do think they are a concept that work better in older JRPGs for sure. One of my favorite examples of a silent protagonist is the protagonist of Dragon Quest V, and I think they play to the strengths unique to a silent protagonist brilliantly. Since you see him grow up from a baby to an adult over the course of the game, him being silent makes it easier for the player to connect with him more, especially with you making some big decisions as him during the game. It's feels as if you as the player influence his life, and kind of like you're raising him, in a way. I think he would still be a brilliant protagonist even if he had dialogue, but I do think it would sort of change the bond the player shares with the protagonist. That being said though, I do think modern JRPGs don't really play to the unique strengths silent protagonists have anymore, at least the ones I've played. Like you said in the video, it does make some parts of Dragon Quest XI a little awkward lol. I don't think they're inherently outdated, but moreso that they are rarely utilized properly anymore.
Even as a kid I always thought the silent protagonist thing was weird lol
TBH, I've played some recent JRPGs with silent protags and it often doesn't fit very well. IMO silent protags fits better with wrpgs where you get a lot of choices in conversations.
Tropes, in and of themselves aren't a bad thing. It's all about how much care is given to how well the character with said trope interacts with the world around them. This is especially true with JRPGs. Also, the illusion of having choice is something that too many games do, and as you've said, it definitely takes away from the meaning behind a silent protagonist. Even worse, is when there's another character in the group that practically speaks for the character (Genshin Impact, even though it's not technically a JRPG). I don't think 3D games necessarily take the charm away from the trope, but if there is no form of expression from the player character, and if their personality it already pre-defined anyway, then the game makers have failed at the trope, and it even just comes off as lazy.
Yeah, to be honest, I've never liked the silent protagonist as a concept because I've never gotten that feeling of projecting myself into a world or onto a character. The way I experience the story of a game is more comparable to experiencing the story of a book. I can get immersed in it, but the medium is always an apparent line of separation. More often than not, a silent protagonist takes me out of a story because during dramatic and emotional moments, you're stuck playing as someone who is unable or unwilling to express themselves which just makes scenes way more awkward.
The worst example of this I think I've ever seen was D2 which, despite being apocalyptic, is an intimate narrative that focuses on the relationships between characters and a central theme of overcoming trauma and grief. Then, you have Laura who everybody shares deep feelings and secrets with, but can never say anything back to them except off-camera. Only later on she does speak briefly which means that in-universe she can but chooses not to. The whole experience of playing it just made me remember why I dislike this trope as much as I do.
Id be lying if I said I love the trope but I think it fits well on certain characters like Link and Samus but for most games I do wish we could have the a few more heroes talk these days. Guess its a case by case basis kinda thing!
lol
Also, gotta say how much I love the NES cartridge boarders in the vid, really hits the feels that much harder when I see the classic gameplay! :D
Definitely a case by case thing for sure. I never minded it with Link either, probably because despite having a pre-established role in the game's world he was still always supposed to be sort of a self-insert character.
Nostalgia is the goal with those retro gaming borders so mission accomplished then :)
If it's done well i dont mind a silent protaganist. But sometimes the choices are bare or even lame.
Ive just finished Suikoden 1 a few weeks back on Vita. The times I could make a choice in dialogue it did nothing, couse you have to give the correct answer or the question was repeated and you had to answer again.
Yep definitely feel you there, Suikoden is a series that never really did the whole silent protagonist thing that well I feel even though I do absolutely love the series. I think I remember there being a few choices in the original that actually have effect on you recruiting a character or not but yeah the majority of it didn't matter at all
@@GamingBroductions
*Suikoden 1 in a nutshell :*
PERSON : Hero, let's go north to the new town.
HERO : No.
PERSON : Come on, we have to go north, otherwise our friend in gonna get killed!
HERO : No.
PERSON : He is joking everyone ! He will of course answer "yes" right now!!!
HERO : No.
PERSON : Hero, let's go north to the new town.
HERO : No.
PERSON : Come on, we have to go north, otherwise our friend in gonna get killed!
HERO : No.
PERSON : He is joking everyone ! He will of course answer "yes" right now!!
HERO : No.
PERSON : Hero, let's go north to the new town.
HERO : No.
... (repeat ad-infinitum)
I still love Suikoden 1 but I this was definitely a huge flaw. *ALL* dialogue options were like this. Like, what were the devs thinking?
I agree for everything but DQ, in particular DQ V.
I'm about to enjoy this video while I crack open a beer and eat some sushi. Thanks for uploading!
Haha hell yeah! Can’t go wrong with that combo. Hope you enjoyed the vid
Silant protaganist is fine as long as you get dailough options during conversations i would also like to hear their thoughts ocessionally that said bylaths supports werent as good as the others
Small correction: In Persona 5, I think if you romance the female characters, it can alter their dialogue in normal cutscenes a little.
Nice summing up of this issue! I'm with pretty much everything you said.
I get it.. However, to me role playing is being someone else.. Stepping into someone else’s role.. Take Stocke from Radiant Historia and Rean from Trails.. These characters for example are utterly brimming with personality so much so you can’t wait to see what happens next..
Regardless I do love Dragon Quest.. But I’m sure they can implement something like this in a lead rpg character with an already established formula..
Chrono was perfect at displaying his thoughts.
The hero from DQ11 is just too cool to care…with the same hair my 74 year old Mom has.
The hair thing is because Akira Toriyama can only do about 8 hairstyles.
I kinda enjoy the silent protagonist in Dragon Quest. I don’t come to that series for a “new experience”, I come to those games for the traditional and classic JRPG experience.
I can't stand silent protags, especially in JRPGS. They feel out of place and it feels like the story happens AROUND them and they are merely spectators in the events around them. I think it's one of the biggest issues I have with the DQ series and why I just cannot get into them. I've tried starting DQ11 multiple times but give up and there's just no immersion or connection for me.
I have no interest of self insert nonsense.
It was also a way to save space when they were implemented. Every single byte in the ROM counted at the time so they saved a lot by making the protagonist silent. That's another reason why they should be a thing of the past by now.
I thought the silent protagonist in DQXI mostly still worked but I wouldn’t be opposed to XII finally moving away from that (though I doubt it will). As for Persona, I think 6 should keep the choice based replies and limited speaking - but just voice the lines you actually select in paraphrase, not unlike a western RPG like Mass Effect.
Hopefully it won't. That's one part of the charm of a DQ game. Remove that and it will the same as any other western RPG. Ain't nobody want that, especially in Japan.
I think the only time a silent protagonist makes any sense is if you as a player have agency over their choices or decisions. Since branching dialogue or stories is not typically a feature of JRPGs, it just feels lazy to me. I can’t engage or relate to a character with no personality.
For what it’s worth (I know my opinion means nothing), I’d prefer a voiced protagonist. I like the idea of a self-insert but I play RPGs for the story not so much the isekai or self-insert aspect. I love games where I can put myself in the shoes of the game but I prefer those to be the power fantasy type. RPGs are story focused and it takes me out of the story when the MC is almost a guest in his or her own story.
yeah
It was weird going from golden sun 1 where Felix talked and Isaac was silent to golden sun 2 where Isaac talked and Felix was silent
I think it depends on the type of game. Personally, I like having a silent protagonist as I dislike the cliche voices often given to protagonists in games. Personally, I found myself connecting more with all of the Persona game protagonists, and my WoL in FF14, than the likes of Rean in Tales of Cold Steel. That's not to say I dislike voiced protagonists or that I believe voiceless are better, as I believe neither of these things. If the game features no player input at all (such as dialogue options), then there is little point in a silent protagonist. However, I would actually like to see more of such features. Maybe FF14 spoiled me, but I love how connected I feel to my character just through the ability to customise them and providing some dialgoue choices (even if they ultimately do little more than help personalise my character). This is a feature I would actually like to see more in JRPGs, as it'll help break the cliche shonen protagonist tropes we are used to seeing. That is a far bigger problem with JRPGs in my opinion, as it extends to both voiced and voiceless characters; the protagonists are typically boring cliches.
Whats that game called from 0:52-1:02?
Crystalis for the NES
I think this should be left in the past, totally agreed on DQXI, not only was the silent protag extremely stoic, his voice was horrible, he sounded like he was doing something sexual every time he was healed.
Not really a fan of the silent protagonist, agree that Persona does it the best but yeah let’s leave that in the past. Love Skies of Arcadia.
I've never liked a silent protagonist, even in Western games, because I don't see the appeal of asserting myself into the game. I find silent protagonists as a whole to be outdated.
So you're just not a fan of rpgs as a whole?
@@channel45853 RPG's are not defined by a silent protagonist.
This is just personal opinion but I think that what really drags down characters like Joker from Persona 5 is not that him doesn't have a personality but that the character created by the player is not soo present in the story. Just like Chrono from Chrono Trigger, Joker has a personality and the dialogue choices really give the player an opportunity to express themselves but the lack of voice actting and character expressions really kill the player imersion on the character that they created. Like imagine of every dialogue choice of the Joker was voiceacted especially in scenes like Kawakami Max Confidant with "That's the best part" would be pure comedic gold. But the tl:dr here is that characters like Chrono work with the "silent protagonist" trope because the game has made sure to give him enough tolls for his characterization in the story, but this was more than 20 years ago and things change, now some unique animations and reactions will not be enough. Animations, voice actting, good character writring are essantial to every one and most silent protagonist tend to lack all 3 points.
Yep definitely in full agreement with you there. Would have loved to see the lines we get to choose for Joker actually voiced since he's voiced in battle already and clearly has a personality of sorts that the characters engage with. Some concepts need to evolve with the genre as the years goes on and this is one of them I feel
Atlus definitely wanted to make him a fully voiced character. He straight up speaks in some scenes
I do think silent protagonist still has place in video game story telling but so many stories and their protagonist have taken a toll because of the trope much like Fire Emblem Three Houses and some of the Zelda games.
I just subbed and seen this video. While I do feel a voiced protagonist can improve a story, it can also hurt it. Tidus is the perfect example of a character I wish would shut the hell up. Now on the flipside, the MC from Dragon Quest XI (which I see you didn't much care for) was one of my favourite characters of modern JRPGs. He was silent, but he let his actions speak for themselves, and his expressions in a lot of scenes shone a light on the kind of person he is. (He also does have a voice, when you see him as a kid.) As an aside, its funny to think that if things had been different, he'd likely have had a Scottish accent, instead he has a west country type accent - its actually one of my favourite things in the game. Each town has their own regional dialect, even in text.
I loved Tidus. He did talk a lot but I can’t see him being quiet. He is kinda cocky and it seems likes the sound of his own voice. Lol
Xenogears, at least to me, doesn't just have a non-silent protagonist, it takes it one step further by being a game where a silent Fei would be such a monumental damage to the plot that it'd be utterly impossible to tell Xenogears' story while having Fei silent.
Same goes for most Trails games and for Final Fantasy VII, VIII and XVI.
FFX on the other hand is very reminiscent of Zelda and is a plot that could be told with a silent protagonist, Tidus being shown talking isn't an essential part of the story, but it seems FFX intentionally chooses a very intrusive POV character (who is not just a talking protagonist, but even narrates) in order to force the player's attention on Tidus and on how he lives through the plot, rather than on the rest of the world.
FFXII (and maybe Xenoblade 2, FFIII's DS version, FFV and FFIX, and Trails of Cold Steel 1 and 2 too) doesn't need the speaking protagonist it has, it could perfectly work even without having a speaking protagonist (heck, FFIII had a silent protagonist originally, it was removed in its DS remake).
A thing that it seems only the Ys series has done among JRPGs, however, is some games (Ys 3 and Ys 4) where the protagonist is non-silent, with their remakes (Oath in Felghana and Memories of Celceta) making the protagonist silent and using narration to replace their dialogue. FFVII Remake and Rebirth for instance kept Cloud non-silent. I wonder if there are any other remakes in JRPGs which have turned silent a protagonist that originally wasn't. I wonder if FFIX Remake could have a player-created avatar instead of Zidane.
To me the only silent protagonist who works in game is only in dragon age origins
the silent protagonist has gotten old over the years
FFX is my favorite game of all time. I wish Tidus can shut up sometimes.
The next BGS game Starfield is going back to silent.
If the game has a good representation of what is said and who is saying it I prefer to turn the voices off. This because a perfectly fine game can be wrecked by the often terrible tone of the characters in jrpgs. I much prefer to read the text and make up the characters voices in my head instead, like a book.
I hate silent protagonist and avatars in video games in rpg in general
Rule of thumb for me is a protagonist must not be silent if he destroys the immersion of major cutscenes by not talking
Silent protagonists are awful in almost every application.
The reason being the characters already have established personalities, thoughts, views and opinions and as such it's basically just removing a job of writing a character further.
in some games, in other games, it is done well and you are allowed to basically choose the writing with dialogue trees and choices
There is something else at play there.
Not a JRPG Character but I think Toon Link from Zelda The Wind Waker is super relatable.
He is super-expressive even with just a single short line of Dialogue ("Come on!")
On the other end of the spectrum is the Player Character in Pokémon Sun/Moon. Everyone else is super-expressive and they just have a completely blank face all the time, regardless of the situation which just broke some scenes completely. The huge Totem Lurantis was supposed to be imposing and that worked for like three seconds before the camera cut to the character's blank face.
A Voice can add much to a character, but to be fair: It can also end up being Baten Kaitos.
There is no right or wrong answer to this.
Also, Nobody loses anything if your character is not silent. Turn on subtitles and turn out voices and you have your Main Character back. (I actually did this in Monster Hunter Tri because I really disliked the voice of the son of the village elder.)
Yes.
In fact, I'll take it a step further. Silent protagonists are bad. Unless your character is just a customizable avatar with no established history (Elder Scrolls for example) then a well-written character is always better.
Most people talk that Silent Protagonists are immersive, but to me it's opposite. They're RELATABLE to me.
I love SIlent Protagonists because i feel related to their personality. I often feel myself like a Silent Protagonist (Despite being a talkative person).
Another reason is that i love... Supporting Protagonists. Protagonist that is mostly a supportive character. I prefer when teammates of Protagonists shine more than protagonist, i think it's too cliche to have a protagonist to be a center of the story. That's why i love ensemble cast, i love how FF6 and FF12 have no central protagonist and are mostly about a group of people with their own goals.
I find that silent protagonists were just because of lazy development.
Not lazy, but an archaic idea from the infancy of the rpg genre, and that only was carried for too long because of japanese traditionalism.
In my opinion if you play game like silent protagonist you are the extension of the character and the story of the other characters will untold to you since you are the extension. Like in the dragon quest 8 for example its 8:32 the story of king trode and others affected my dolmagus.. on the other side if you play an rpg and the protagonist is talking the narrative of the story was on the main character will you just untold his story by playing it.. you just going to pretend that you are him/her.
To me Silent Protagonist is not a walking avatar with no personality.
To me That's THEIR PERSONALITY. That's how Silent Protagonist personality. Their personality is that they're socially awkward and are not talkative much. I feel very related to them. I don't care about immersion, i just feel myself more connected to a protagonist who prefers to observe a situation without making any vocal input and then help them by doing helpful actions.
People hate Silent Protagonists because they see the wrong arguements in defense of Silent Protagonists. It's not about immersion, its about their personality which makes them not beng talkative!
I'm not the biggest fan of the Silent Protagonist. It can be used well with a lot of in game choices, especially if those choices have consequences. I do have to disagree with the comment @3:51. One of the best things about Dragon Quest is that it stays true to it's roots and has never tried to reinvent itself after all these years. There has always been a Silent Protagonist in DQ and if that changes it will pave the way for other changes. Next thing you know Dragon Quest could end up like Final Fantasy with the series losing it's direction and fans losing interest. Keep the Silent Protagonist for Dragon Quest and just add more choices so he seems like he's interacting with the story.
I really don't see why the whole silent protagonist thing is a problem. There's lots of introverts in the world, and like all introverts they tend to fade into the background. This is fine, not everyone needs to have a larger than life personality. I have yet to play a game that left me thinking "gee, I wish the MC was a little more loud and obnoxious."
an introvert and/or a socially anxious person isn't what is usually in mind when making silent protags i would guess
Silent protagonists are awful
Falcom does this well though: I feel like Adol from Ys has a lot of personality despite being mostly silent. It's obvious he's thrilled to explore new territories and unearth their mysteries. Having him talk more is unnecessary and would break the mystique around the character in my opinion.
But watching Estelle, Lloyd and Rean from the Kiseki series, you know they could handle him well.
I also think this trope works well in MegaTen games where decisions affect your alignment and ending. Anywhere else though? This trope can die. Ichiban from the latest Yakuza is the best example of this. His relationship with the other characters wouldn't work as well if he was a silent protagonist.
Same reason why I'm looking forward to Soul Hackers 2! I wasn't sure how to feel about Ringo at first but she really grew on me based on all those promo videos and I'm really looking forward to finding out more about her, something I wouldn't be able to do if she was another silent protagonist.
In the end, I'd say it depends on the game, but generally speaking I prefer voice protagonists and I really hope this trend keeps dying.
Please, don't hope for this... I love silent protagonists, they're very relatable.
If this trend would disappear, i would feel less relatable to the stories. SIlent Protagonist is not an outdated trope, it's a personality, a personality that i feel connected with.
You all treat a silent protagonist like a doll with no words, while i consider silent protagonists' lack of talkativity to be their character trait. It's a trait that i feel relatable to.
You hope for something that would make me feel robbed? Q_Q