Behind the Scenes of the Chinese Doping Scandal
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- Опубликовано: 24 апр 2024
- SwimSwam Co-Founders Braden Keith (Editor-in-Chief) and Mel Stewart (CEO) sit down to divulge how the story of 23 Chinese swimmers testing positive and walking away unscathed unfolded over the weekend and what it means moving forward.
Stewart and Keith discuss USADA's role in breaking this story, what WADA's independent investigation could bring to light, and the plausibility that this was actually caused by a contaminated kitchen vs intentional doping. 
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Braden mentioned Madisyn Cox & Efimova. In both those cases the athletes were provisionally suspended & the positives were made public. There’s a lot of discussion about whether the 23 positives were down to contamination or cheating. I wish there was more discussion about the lack of uniformity in the process. Some athletes receive provisional suspensions from competing before they can establish a “no fault” case while these 23 athletes (perhaps in other cases too?) face no punitive measures. It’s pretty disconcerting that anyone, let alone WADA, would find this acceptable.
DOUBLE STANDARD
I think it’s more interesting to discuss how WADA defend these swimmers but then argue against Russian figure skater😂
Amazing video guys
No one has answer the question how did a prescription heart drug end up in food?
In the podcast they mentioned that there may have been contamination in factories making the cleaning supplies (I think it was just speculation though)
@@williamnak9939 yeah that's the BS Chinese excuse. There's no way this medication can get in your food without putting it in there, but it doesn't matter, it got in these athletes bodies and so impacted their bodies making them able to train harder and better leading up to the games causing them to perform better in Tokyo, they should be stripped of their medals and those medals shoud be given to the other athletes.
@@sethaldrich6902 in the podcast they mentioned that it was a parent of an affected american swimmer that brought that theory. Factories in China are not always the cleanest and a worker’s medication could have gotten contaminated. (according to that person)
@@williamnak9939 that would have to be quite a coincidence to happen. In addition, it's not a super common medication to be taking for heart disease, it's highly unlikely that that could happen and then get 23 swimmers testing positive. Chances are astronomical. But in any case they tasted positive and that should be an automatic ban from compitions because the drug is in your system already.
@@sethaldrich6902It must be racial prejudice log that makes one not see things logically.
Was that AMERICAN FED THE SAME DRUG BY THE CHINESE...POINT PROVEN.
THEY CANNOT SEE BEYOND THEIR LONG NOSES.
I remember watching Jenny Thompson swim against beasts in 94 in Rome, and it scarrred me, and I wish I didn’t see new swimmers pop up out of seemingly nowhere and demolish world records and not be suspicious, but after watching this for literally decades, how can your brain not associate certain swims from Joe nobody’s and not think “you’re a cheater”.
yep China's breastroker came out of nowhere and he looks way bigger than he used to look. The 100 free guy also kinda popped up outta nowhere in the last year.
@@sethaldrich6902 Outta nowhere? 47.29 R World Aquatics Championships Feb 17, 2024
47.53 World Aquatics Championships Feb 15, 2024
47.73 World Aquatics Championships Feb 14, 2024
47.82 World Aquatics Championships Feb 14, 2024
46.80 🇫🇷 OQT R World Aquatics Championships Feb 11, 2024
46.97 Asian Games Sep 23, 2023
47.43 World Aquatics Championships Jul 27, 2023
47.61 World Aquatics Championships Jul 26, 2023
47.84 World Aquatics Championships Jul 26, 2023
47.67 R World Aquatics Championships Jul 23, 2023
47.22 May 01, 2023
47.79 19th FINA World Championships Jun 22, 2022
47.65 19th FINA World Championships
@@dymzo3801Good stuff dude. 👍 Data speaks and belies what the moron bullsh*tted.
What I still don’t understand is why CHINADA didn’t suspend the 23 athletes immediately (per the rules) after the positive tests. It would have changed everything.
Because a country's entire Olympic team simultaneously testing positive for the same drug after attending a single gathering is not a doping scandal but a national security emergency. That's why CHINADA and WADA decided against disclosing it, as the case was most likely out of their hands and taken over by the MSS at that point. In any event, they followed contamination protocols in communication with WADA. What you're seeing now is a engineered leak from entities that know more about the incident than they logically should and are loudly pretending not to realise the deeper implications.
It's called the Chinese Comunist Party. That what drives thir program. That's what drove the East German program. They'll do anything to 'Beat the west'. Commomg from a communist country myself, I know that this is the norm. They started doing this in the 90's and have only become better at hiding it. It was only a matter of time that they would slip up. So glad they have as Qin and Pan are a little too fast and there is no appernt developmental reason for this.
Why didnt USADA suspend 10 athletes in 2014 when they also tested positive under the same "food contamination"?
I understand, China has a long history of following their own rules and ignoring the rest of the world. Plus they have WADA in their pocket and they know it so why follow the rules, why suspend any athletes? They knew they wouldn't face any reprocutions if they didn't.
@@dymzo3801please provide a reference, can’t find the incident you are referring to.
It would be great if, in due course, swimswam produced a post summarising where we are on this scandal. I’m talking timeline, facts we know, assumptions made etc. Would be very nice to track and understand the topic better!
I think mel made it pretty clear where he stands but the others were a little more vague. But yeah, it would be nice if they were all less diplomatic, however that opens them up to alot of things.
@@sethaldrich6902 This is Mel, and this is my opinion (and it does not represent swimswam editorial staff). I simply want the same rules to apply to all swimming nations. Sadly, if the Chinese swim stars did suffer the positive tests due to contamination, a cloud of doubt will remain over them due to WADA's handling of this case. As an Olympian and a gold medalist, I do have a lot of emotions on this topic, and that probably came through in this pod. At the end of the day, this needs to be thoroughly investigated. Doubt around WADA and Fair Play heading into an Olympics is the last situation we want to be in.
@@SwimSwamTV Thanks so much Mel, as a swim fan and an American, I and alot of other people appreciate the honesty and the emotion. Totally agree about WADA, I know, I for one feel they didn't treat this the same as other situations and with the donations, it looks bad, like the Chinese have them in their pocket. Positive tests should be treated the same. I hope in the future these things will be handled better, properly, and universaly the same. Appreciate all that you do.
Where is Zhu Zhigen and what are his thoughts on this?
I agree with Braden Keith and that is why I think in the pool, on the track, in the field - it is a level playing field : because those who are "clean" are not necessarily clean. We have The Clear, Lance Armstrong, Alberto Salazar for examples and olympic champions who decades later were told by their own friends that they were not really clean (I'm talking about western block athletes - Eastern Bloc are pretty clear - no need to argue about it).
Those who are caught, let the officials deal with it. '
But it is extremely irritating, especially from someone from a small country or area (non russia, non china, non eastern block or western countries) to hear one-sided vilification - not only regarding doping but also politics (support of war).
Personally I just look at several signs regardless of their nationalities : excessive acnes on the back, acnes on the face (females), prognathism, bitemporal baldness in females and athletes who developed testicular cancers. Unfortunately due to current excellent grooming, you won't see armpits hairs in 13-15 year old girls anymore but that is something that I have seen back in 1988 swimming (for example) who the western bloc so admire until her retirement.
Other than that, I just enjoy watching the competition - knowing that almost all of these athletes are doped (either full dose, micro dose or using health excuses or whatever, either state sponsored, company sponsored or self sponsored).
And I think, from the individual athlete cheating point of view, self and company sponsored are worse than state sponsored because they knowingly & willingly do it out of greed for success. The state sponsored is worse in term of human rights violation.
Just a personal opinion. (oh aquatic is lucky as you don't have problems regarding "female" athletes with XY chromosomes too - not talking about trans).
Can't wait for the Olympics.
I don't follow swimming closely, I'm sooooo confused! Kamila Valieva tested positive for TMZ also and she was 15 and a protected person? She went to a sports school her whole life, had no friends and was skating 12 hours a day (I know her coach is demanding), was sheltered and did not know what she was taking. She was one of their fav athletes because look at her, she is the most stunning athlete when she skates. They maligned her so badly, her free skate made me cry because they botched her performance, she was landing her program all year, then she kills it in the team competition, and she wins a gold and they say sorry no medal ceremony. Now they gave her a 4 year ban and her life had to completely change over the last month. She is basically not allowed on any ice in Russia. There are some private clubs but c'mon! Thanks guys for filling me in, I understand now and I am absolutely shocked! Can they just let her skate? Its maddening, they admitted she had no idea what she was taking, but gave her 4 years but ya China you can go win relay gold another 2 golds and 3 silvers??
Any Chinese swimmer that tested positive to TMZ should have been banned from competing, let alone go and compete at the Olympics that same year and take home medals.
Extremely unfair to all those swimmers from countries around the world who train so very hard, day in and day out just for a chance to compete on the international stage. Time for a major shake up of WADA - disgraceful!!
No matter what, there will be a black cloud over Chinese swimmers in Paris.
And the French, the ANGLO-SAXON AMERICAN for their demonization of all things Chinese and Russians.
Won’t it be an indoor event?
I have heard the following account from the kitchen's chef from the hotel.
"I was about to take my TMZ tablets for my heart condition when I tripped over. The tablets flew out of my hand and landed inside a very large pot of broth that I was cooking at the time. I tried frantically to fish them out but they had already dissolved; seeing the athletes starving I didn't have the heart to throw the broth away and start making a fresh one: it would've meant making them wait another hour. I decided to feed them without much thought.
I am terribly sorry for the distress I've caused and I feel devastated that this story from January 2021 has made its way to the main news outlets with less than 100 days to go Paris, what terrible timing! I hope that this story doesn't taint any possible Chinese sporting success and that, everyone treats us with the respect we deserve."
lol, it was a Chinese anti-doping agency that did the report. What a farce.
_...Chinese anti-doping agency, Chinada, to Wada in 2021, which said that it had found trace elements of TMZ in the extractor fan, on spice containers and in the drain of a hotel kitchen in Shijiazhuang, where the swimmers had been staying._
Thank you gentlemen for providing meaningful arguments in a sensible way.
Wada fending off Mr Tygart points by saying that contamination also happened in the USA is a terribly low argument from an organization in charge of worldwild regulation.
WADA needs a house cleaning. So many of these endurance sports have been plagued by doping and WADA is not up to the task of being an effective watchdog.
First question: Does anyone know if this stuff even gives a healthy person a performence benefit?
We all know there is a bunch of stuff on the WADA list that does not realy do anything.
As a side note, your out of your mind if you think US swimmers do not dope. You think its only US track sprinters that have been doping for 50 yrs?
Everyone dopes, in every sport
Not only chinese swimmers, russian and other countries were involved in doping scandals, now it must be very very investigated these informations and provide the punishment necessary and before the olympic games, the problem is the chinese are very closed and dificult to give the right and clear informations to the International authorities!!!!! Lets see what happens in the next weeks
ARD is not a news agency. ARD is a public service tv channel in Germany with a full program on news, sport, entertainment, movies, educational program etc. New is a small part of what they do.
Watch the Chinese bots and hackers make the comments seem like there is a 50/50 opinion on this crime.
Everyone doping, you are naive if you think otherwise. The US just has better tech, and frankly, they set the rules.
@@dymzo3801 lol u proved his point
You guys really messed up with that first story
The assumptions Chinese are cheaters. Nothing new there. It's the creed.
What does John Culhane think?
The Hunter's Coke, one time use, is not a HINDRANCE to performance.
Did they test positive at the time of their events that is the main question.
I mean do you really sincerely believe that someone who could win 8 golds in a single game ..that’s almost 14 races in 3 days ..is absolutely clean
98% of Western people and 100 percent of Japanese. Lol
I watch TMZ but I don't ingest it.
the fact that the 23 had the performance enhancing substance in their systems is not disputed. in turn, the fact that they gained (intentionally or unintentionally) a competitive advantage against the field cannot be disputed. they should've been provisionally banned at the time, and should be stripped of their time and medals now. the circumstances under which they were "contaminated" might be mitigating factors when determining their penalties. the burden of proving "contamination" is on CHNADA, and I don't think they carried that burden successfully at all with that ludicrous story, especially considering its history of covering up. remember Sun Yang's 4 months suspension was not revealed until after he allegedly served the suspension?
Thank you guys for keeping the matter fresh! let's try to keep the water clean!
I don't think there is any concrete data on the performance enhancement gained by this medication. Not saying it doesn't, but just because it is banned and offers a theoretical biological advantage, does not mean it does in real life and changed the outcome of races. This is a fascinating topic because I believe, generally speaking, all the top athletes in the world are using ped's. Best wishes.
Did the Secret Police Hunt down the culprit that left his Coke in tightly secured Snow White House?!
Please speculate. It is good for the world.😊😊😊
Can you really get excited about international swimming? Swimming is cycling now. Ruined the Olympics.
I’m very sad and confused. I am all for clean sports but the current geopolitical environment makes it very difficult, if impossible, to find the truth. I understand Mel’s frustration but I find his remarks premature.
This is Mel, and I think your comment is fair. The editorial side of swimswam will remain on the side of hard facts-- what we know right now. I'll bring more emotion to the topic as someone who swam at two olympic games. I do think WADA mishandled this situation, meaning I do "believe" USADA CEO Travis Tygart. I think WADA must provide more light on this topic...and they are, to a degree, with an independent prosecutor. More to come this story as we near the Paris Olympics.
WADA covered up!
At 26:00 - completely disagree. You're discounting their doping system being subject to sloppiness, human error, admin errors, etc etc. Use occam's razor here. They are systematically doping, someone got sloppy, somehow it got out, and here we are. Did the athletes know? That's a more murky question
Everyone doping, you are naive if you think otherwise. The US just has better tech, and frankly, they set the rules.
occam's razor doesn't apply here. Your theory is not occam's razor because it involves an implausible series of failures throughout the cheating system, and that's what he's saying. He's saying it's implausible because multiple people would have screwed up the "cover-up" if it was indeed the case. They'd have to all take the same drug, all get caught, and then CHINADA reported the positive results to WADA.
does this include the new 100m freestyle record?
Zhang Yufei just happened to get much faster leading into the Olympics last time. Just coincidence. 🤔
It is called tapering...
@@ZhenYae Sure, just like Ben Johnson tapered. Lol It's called cheating my friend.
@@joeyartk Then you do not do sports.
@@ZhenYae Then you don't know cheating. Her pattern was not tapering. Lol
@@joeyartk Western Projection. Then, you know how to cheat, lie and ..
Please refrain from drinking during the podcast. It is so distracting. If you are thirsty, drink enough before going on live.
Knew this was coming after pan zhanle’s record 💀
Everyone doping, you are naive if you think otherwise. The US just has better tech, and frankly, they set the rules.
It's no surprise. Last year, I read reports in the Chinese media that had predicted that in the year of the Olympics, the Western media would hype up a propaganda war to attack Chinese athletes for using performance-enhancing drugs!
@@dymzo3801 yeah, I guess you’re right. Occams razor would suggest a large government conspiracy, and not that China is doping
@@dymzo3801 as a point of fact, WADA sets the rules, not the U.S. (USADA).
@@SwimSwamTV I was referring to the media, they have control.